Does the Mormon Church Harm? | Faith Deconstruction Series

Does the Mormon Church Harm? | Faith Deconstruction Series | Episode 013

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Күн бұрын

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@jacoblewis2961 4 ай бұрын

The biggest reason I don't want to be quiet and shut up and move on is because once you figure it out that its all a bunch of shit you want to warn your neighbors!

@Ronnieboy111 4 ай бұрын

Once you partake of the fruit (Lehi's tree of life vision) seeing the real truth, you want to share it with your family and friends. That is why we can't be quiet, we want to share it with our family and friends. Hopefully, that makes sense. lol

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

Thats a great way to put it

@JIKOKALOL 4 ай бұрын

It's so confining how belonging to this religious institution is a 'be all end all' sort of thing. I like the freedom of choosing any place, way, time and style to love and worship God.

@barryrichins 4 ай бұрын

I do believe the Church hurts people. I had a break down on my mission 62 years ago, and the effects left me with PTSD, which I have suffered from to this day. I finished my mission, but returned home anxious, depleted, afraid, depressed, and ashamed. I never told anyone that my shame came because my mental and physical anguish led me to believe that I may have done something so evil that the Lord had turned me over to the buffetings of Satan, a message that I had read in The Journal of Discourses, words of Brigham Young, a year or so before my break down. I share my experience with Bill Reel and RFM on Mormonism Live, episode 54, Mission Impossible. For a perfectionist such as I was, the mission was toxic to me. It wasn't until eight years ago that I resigned, at age 75. Doing so left me depressed again and so suicidal, because of the loss of my religious culture, that I had myself interred in the psych ward of a local hospital, where I got a good deal of counseling, along with eleven electrical chock treatments. It took me about three years to learn to live again, a very hard thing to do. Today I feel the best I have ever felt in my life. Just after my psychiatrist retired last year, she told me that the best thing I had ever done for my mental health was my resigning my church membership.

@sarahpinho1114 4 ай бұрын

I really appreciate you sharing, because I was also pretty miserable during my mission, and much more afterwards as the feelings I'd stuffed down came out. I'd definitely say the mission had a negative effect on my mental health, as well as physical due to health problems acquired from walking all day on uneven streets and a poor diet.

@pneuma_23-rb4dx 4 ай бұрын

I'm so watching your story with bill Bill Reel now. Thanks for sharing.

@craiglaw7578 4 ай бұрын

Another trigger is the “Gospel”. We have the full gospel. Gospel means “Good News”; every Christian has the good news. Mormons don’t have a corner on the market. I still believe in God and Jesus Christ!

@JIKOKALOL 4 ай бұрын

Word!

@trustitcoaching 4 ай бұрын

That was a wonderful comment. Full of truth. ThNks

@derekkerr6158 4 ай бұрын

I know for me, deconstructing and sharing what I have learned is more a desire for having those around me also know and understand what I've learned. Sadly, my family truly believes that I am crazy for the things I say. I was recently diagnosed as autistic and now understand why I have always had so many questions and get obsessed over research. This made me extremely faithful as a member. But now as I've learned the lies and false narratives, this makes me an enemy and not being anything but faithful in my family has made me a threat and unwelcome.

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

I feel every bit of this!

@lilatueller 4 ай бұрын

I’m super grateful for your fearless commentary about what you’ve experienced and how it has affected your life. You not only have the right to do so, but you have REASONS to do so. Haters gonna hate. But that’s not you

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

Thank you Lila, this means sooo much! And your story has impacted me significantly! 💕🙏🏻 (Elisha)

@michellemilne3315 4 ай бұрын

So much of what you say in your podcasts resonates with me. It’s the way you word it. In one you talked about the church being a “primary attachment” - HUGE in explaining why members feel so “attacked” when anything negative (or the actual truth) is said about the church. I haven’t been comfortable (for whatever reason) referring to myself as an exmormon so I love the term retired mormon - PERFECT! And just now, not being allowed to talk about the religion after you’ve left is a “cult behavior” YES! I’m extremely grateful (now being in a mixed-faith marriage) for your podcast and others in this space that have helped me not feel alone during this difficult, painful time. Thank you ❤

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

So happy to read that this resonated for you. This can be such a tough transition. Sending hugs!

@rachaelkilgore50 4 ай бұрын

The pity that my tbm family portrays towards me is especially bothersome. But it’s funny cuz I almost pity them cuz they’re stuck in a bubble I just don’t show it like they do

@marlenemeyer9841 5 ай бұрын

I no longer believe in the truth claims of the church and these are my thoughts since deconstructing. There is both good and bad in the church. Some people’s lives are significantly better and happier after joining. They often gain community, support, love, structure, opportunities to serve others, sense of purpose and a feeling of security believing they know what is true and where they and their loved ones go after death. These are not insignificant things. But, it’s not all good! Guilt, Shame, toxic perfectionism, trauma of not fitting the narrative and being rejected (the list goes on) are also possible outcomes for many people. It seems to me there is no single path that is a perfect fit for everyone. Yes there is harm perpetrated on many people in the church but I believe if you put it all on a scale there are more good outcomes in more people’s lives than harm done. That is not to discount the harm!!!! I agree it happens. I see it like capitalism. Many people thrive in a capitalist society, but not everyone. Does that mean capitalism is bad? I think it means there isn’t such a thing as a perfect system or organization that works perfectly in all situations. Religion is the same. It works great for many but not for all. The important question to me is “Is it true?” If it is not true then there is no obligation to participate. If it doesn’t work well for you then try different things until you find beliefs and practices that align better with your values. Leaving a system like Mormonism is difficult and painful but there can be happiness, purpose, and peace outside of religion. There are many things I miss and many things I don’t miss. Some things are easier and others harder. Overall I am at peace with my decision to leave but I cannot discount the peace and happiness that many people find within the church. In the end I don’t think it matters so much what you believe as much as it matters how much you are able to thrive and grow and love yourself and others. Do what works for you! And then allow others to do what works for them.

@JIKOKALOL 4 ай бұрын

Well put!

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

🙌🏻

@jacoblewis2961 4 ай бұрын

🎯🎯

@sdfotodude 5 ай бұрын

70% of the members are inactive or have quit altogether. That speaks volumes.

@Faith.unraveled 5 ай бұрын

It really does

@lilatueller 4 ай бұрын

CHAT GPT NAILED IT

@sdfotodude 4 ай бұрын

@@michaelparks5669 wanna bet?

@DancingQueenie 4 ай бұрын

They’re told not to CHOOSE to be be offended. Just overlook it and get your @ss back to church. I did it for too long a time and it wears you down. You end up dragging your depressed @ss back to church and thinking there’s something wrong with you.

@Mikelray-df9my 5 ай бұрын

It harms people. Some people seem to be ok with it.The same is true in all religions.

@DancingQueenie 4 ай бұрын

@JIKOKALOL 4 ай бұрын

Real

@DancingQueenie 4 ай бұрын

That war in heaven? We were of the third who got booted out and we’re working our way back. The hard way.

@user-mz3px1xs2l 4 ай бұрын

Not sure I understand you? The 1/3 did not get bodies in Mormon theology. So how can “we” be them?

@DancingQueenie 4 ай бұрын

@@user-mz3px1xs2l That’s Mormon theology. In my theology, I say who could be further from god/Kolob than “we” are? It’s not like we’re being rewarded for anything. Life on earth is hard for everyone and unbearable for most. In what ways is a body a blessing? It has to be fed and rested. It can be terribly painful and is extremely vulnerable. Tested? It’s a very unfair test which, by Mormon standards, is failed by dang near 100% of humans.

@user-mz3px1xs2l 4 ай бұрын

@@DancingQueenie gotcha. Thanks for the response!

@exmoextra999 Ай бұрын

Just found your channel via mormon stories love your content!

@Faith.unraveled Ай бұрын

@@exmoextra999 so glad to have you hear!! 💕

@maryannebryce5210 4 ай бұрын

I have found that when people don’t live or learn the gospel as it really is, it’s harmful. We don’t ask people to divorce to be baptized, in fact take care of that relationship, so this is an example of how something was taught or assumed that was actually not the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. I was lucky to have parents that taught me Christ and his gospel as it really is and it’s been the most healing knowledge I could ever have. I am so thankful for the restoration of truths about the Savior and covenants and for living prophets. Ask God to help you discern , He loves his children and is eager to help guide you. Regardless of our differences, it’s important to express your feelings.

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for your kindness. I appreciate you chiming in 💖🙏🏻

@Wren402 4 ай бұрын

Everyone has the right to speak about their experiences and beliefs. The church is constantly vilifying exmormons and proselytizing their LDS beliefs, yet they want exmormons to be silent. Why? Let everyone have their say. If you have the truth, what are you afraid of?

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

Beautiful

@sinisterhug1394 4 ай бұрын

Well, as a trans woman, I spent a lot of time contemplating “self unaliving” myself growing up. I’m 30 now, been transitioning for a little over 2 years, I’ve never been happier. (Having a faith crisis when I first started transitioning, really threw me for a loop tho.) Keep up the great work you two! 💕 (I normally listen on Apple podcasts, so you probably don’t see me to much on the YT channel anymore)😅

@kentthalman4459 3 ай бұрын

It harms everyone who made life defining decisions without being given the whole story. Decisions are that very difficult to undo.

@tikotiko5328 4 ай бұрын

Happily a lifelong member.

@jacoblewis2961 4 ай бұрын

Most of my family is happily Brainwashed member of the church...

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

Glad to hear it’s working for you. Thanks for stopping by

@sandee-zn9tq 4 ай бұрын

Right! We were taught repeatedly by multiple Prophets & Q15 GA leaders that paying 10% tithing is Gates of Hell- Fire Insurance!! No joke.

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

Right! That we would not burn in the last days… what a horrifying fear tactic 🔥

@carlaceu 4 ай бұрын

As a convert I have spent half of my life outside the church and half inside. I'm sorry to hear about your negative experience with the church, but this hasn't been my experience. Those who are genuine and committed to living the gospel don't see themselves as better than others. There's a lot of good people in the church that see each person as a precious child of God and that genuinely love and serve others as Christ did. I personally know many people that have developed closeness to Jesus Christ through living this gospel including myself. Through study, prayer, meditation, and personal experiences I have also received many answers to my questions that have helped me through my faith journey. You have made a list of potential harms caused by the church, but by personal experience I could give you a huge list of potential harms caused by not living the gospel. I also loved my time serving as a full time missionary. The church and the gospel of Jesus Christ I learned have brought a lot of happiness into my life and have helped me improve family relationships and much more.

@michelle5784 4 ай бұрын

The tithing and church donations thing is wild to me. Families in the church are expected to have a bunch of kids, have a single income home with a stay at home mom, AND give 10% of their income. For fast offerings, you're supposed to pay for the 2 meals you fasted for. But in my ward growing up, they went through a phase of asking everyone to give more. They kept saying, "Look at your finances, and if you can give more, then you should give more" (double it, if I remember correctly) . I remember them even calling specific couples into meet with the bishop and asking them to give more, if they could. My parents were one of those couples, and I'm sure they did because of how much my dad respects leaders. They have 5 kids! If they had a surplus, I cant imagine that they had a lot. It should have gone to retirement. It's like building up personal savings just didn't matter to the church. My parents are now close to retirement age, but they're not going to retire. They don't have enough saved to live on. Luckily, at least they're not interested in serving a senior mission...

@michelle5784 4 ай бұрын

Another thought 😅 like what you two talked about, we were often told that tithing was a sacrifice and sacrifices hurt so if it doesn't hurt then you aren't giving enough

@craiglaw7578 5 ай бұрын

The word Harm triggered the Hippocratic oath; Do No Harm. Wouldn’t Jesus himself agree! How can this church take on the name of Jesus Christ and still do harm? They should be diametrically opposed!

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

👏🏻👏🏻

@ajenks9 4 ай бұрын

Been a member my entire life. The Church, as a whole, has not done any harm in my life. Some people in my experience who have not followed the true spirit of the Church have done some harm. That’s a part of human living - we harm people intentionally and unintentionally and being resentful about that only makes it worse.

@Ronnieboy111 4 ай бұрын

I thought the same thing for the 40 years that I was devout. After my faith crisis, I was able to see more clearly and than and only than was I able to see the harm it caused me and my children. A lot of emotional trauma that influenced my life for many years. I completely understand your point of view because that was mine, but you can't see it while you are in it.

@chandralaframboise963 2 ай бұрын

You guys are awesome, keep it up 👍🏻

@tami3924 4 ай бұрын

Yes, the church can cause immense, irrepairable harm and damage to some due to the patriarchy and purity culture

@kevinmcdonald951 4 ай бұрын

Good video subscriberd.

@jessitatoris-rogers664 Ай бұрын

Harms absolutely. It’s absolutely sick how they claim to be the one and only that has the truth! At 44 years old, I am digging myself out of a mountain of programming and undoing. It has been very difficult! Ex mo missionary

@tooltime9901 4 ай бұрын

"Why do you have to criticise the church after you have left?" - Says people in a religion that sends people door to door.

@kevins4254 4 ай бұрын

I've never been Mormon, but I've lived in Utah Valley for over 18 years and was a high school teacher here for 16 years. I have witnessed enormous harm and, sadly, the vast majority of the damage is to women and children. LDS wives are encouraged to stay at home and raise the children. I'm not saying this arrangement is always bad but it can trap women when the marriage goes bad. They have no way to support themselves and are afraid to step out on their own. I have no doubt this contributes to the statistics that say the divorce rate among Mormons is lower than other Christian sects. LDS women and high school-age women feel extreme stress and pressure to get married because it's a requirement for getting to the highest level of the celestial kingdom. I've known so many young women who graduate high school with enormous potential, but their first priority is to marry a returned missionary and do whatever the church says. If they're not married within a few years after high school, their self-esteem and hope for the future is destroyed. Sure, they put on a happy face at church, but it's a charade. I taught many LDS boys who didn't want to serve missions but felt overwhelming pressure to do it for their parents. Some were even suicidal because of the pressure put on them by the church. It's all very sick.

@ellen6953 4 ай бұрын

When i left a fundamentalist LDS offshoot, i was told that i could get help from the local mainstream ward. They only did more harm.

@ndoina_ 3 ай бұрын

Encouraging people to give their last pennies to tithing is vile. That part made me SO angry.

@LatterDaisySaint 4 ай бұрын

Okay, so are those who left the Church and came back allowed to speak on that? Because my experience has been just a ton of exmo hate for the former exmos who are coming back. It's extremely arrogant to leave and think you have some knowledge no one else has. That's simply false. Plenty of people "deconstructed" and REconstructed. Speaking on cult behavior... you say exmos aren't allowed to talk about their experience? My experience in the LDS/exmo convo is like the exmos need "space" to talk and the Saints need to just listen and shut up. Who is in a cult here? Becoming exmo, you just pass to another belief system. You are still in a system. You still bear testimony of your newfound belief system. You have your "scripture" you refer to. You have your "prophets." We all know this is true. It seems the ones who leave are the ones who never understood their own religion. They claim the Church lied (meanwhile many members knew this stuff for years, so it begs the question... why didn't you know while others did?). Exmos tend to go straight to listing their resume of how very Mormon they were, as if they need to prove they checked all the necessary boxes. That is very telling, if that's how you lived as a member of the Church. I actually appreciate you mentioning basically... when you leave you are still you, and you take yourself with you wherever you go. I know so many exmos who said the Church made them judgemental but now they are more toxic and judgmental than they ever were when they were IN the Church. So that's not a Church problem, that's a YOU problem.

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

There is so much to unpack here I’ll just stick to your original question. Yes, from my perspective everyone should be “allowed to speak.” There is no health in silencing people.

@Ronnieboy111 4 ай бұрын

The interesting part to me in this paragraph is about "coming back"". From my experience, most of the people who "come back", (not all, I understand that), were never really devout before they lost their faith. Once someone who has committed their whole soul and purpose in life to the church/christ, loses that faith, it is virtually impossible for them to ever gain it back. This is because most of us who have lost our faith, lost it while "kicking and screaming" trying as hard as we could to keep it. We did not want to lose our faith. There is no coming back from that awakening.

@shawnbernhardt33 4 ай бұрын

Just a thought I had while listening to you guys talk about the church doctrines/teachings of superiority. I googled 'god complex' and found this: 'Feeling superior or invincible. Having a superiority complex. Ignoring the needs of others. Being indifferent to how their actions affect others.' Then I thought how interesting that in Mormon doctrine they teach and believe that they will literally become gods... Yet I feel that if I told any of my believing Mormon family or friends that they have a 'god complex' they would deny it, haha. It's also so clear to me now after I've deconstructed to a degree, that JS had a god complex and then formed a religion around himself to put himself at the top of the food chain. Now today those superiority beliefs are still part of the core doctrine and has become a systemic problem. People are born into the church and don't even realize that they have had that indoctrinated into their psyche

@harleyenjoytheride1324 22 күн бұрын

People, by nature, want to be accepted and as a youngster you will tend towards believing everything older people say because you begin to identify with them. However, once you mature and begin to understand that everything you have been taught is a lie. Well, this create within yourself a state of utter confusion and who you once were will no longer exist. Your identity has been destroyed by the very people whom you trusted. A class action suit should follow.

@SynThenergy 4 ай бұрын

Consider magical thinking and illusion of control (and when things don't work out --i wasn't righteous enough, etc) lack of probabilistic thinking

@kentthalman4459 3 ай бұрын

Trade offs for things that don't exist.

@user-js3uv4fh7t 4 ай бұрын

It's a money culture

@radybay9088 4 ай бұрын

I think that the billion dollar charity includes what they contribute to the BYU’s.

@cinnamondan4984 4 ай бұрын

As a convert and active member I joined the church post-deconstruction…or rather I never had a literal understanding. There are people who approach the faith as if it is the children’s version of the Bible or Book of Mormon, while there are others who take a different approach. I believe there is something very sacred and true about the church that I cannot put my finger on but I can put my money and time there into

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for sharing that, and for stopping by

@kentthalman4459 3 ай бұрын

Absolutely a cult mindset. Or, cult behavior.

@kentthalman4459 3 ай бұрын

No doubt the Q15 behave like the Pharisees of old.

@John-iw8qf 16 күн бұрын

Please stop calling the church the gospel - it's not the LDS faith. There is a true gospel of grace and truth of Christ. The LDS church is an organization that systematized its harmful teachings and systems. We don't leave the gospel - we try to find it when we leave an organization

@austineastman777 4 ай бұрын

The restored gospel of Jesus Christ has been the only thing to cure my PTSD. I was an exmo once, and coming back to the church has been the greatest blessing of my life ❤

@jacoblewis2961 4 ай бұрын

And what do you attribute that to?Is it because the support the church gives you or because of their doctrine?

@austineastman777 4 ай бұрын

@@jacoblewis2961 the doctrine 100%! Having a genuine relationship with Christ has brought much healing to my mental health. I can't deny it!

@user-ux3vb5zg1p 4 ай бұрын

There is no such thing as mormonism and there are millions of happy latterday saints

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

You may not be aware that Mormonism is a theology with a number of churches under that umbrella. I’m guessing you are a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which is the biggest and members very often forget that there are others outside of their church that are also under the theological umbrella of Mormonism

@livingmombirth4005 4 ай бұрын

Amen but worse than silly. These are the folks that are really doing the harm.

@user-by3me4vr5j 4 ай бұрын

To who? Actually they are helping those who have already been harmed. Don't like the content, stay off the site. It's that easy.

@user-mz3px1xs2l 4 ай бұрын

Your church caused complex PTSD and three suicide attempts by my gay son. You have no idea what you are saying. Look up the commandment to love your neighbor. Then find something productive to do. Attacking people with different experiences makes you look shallow and petty.

@jacoblewis2961 4 ай бұрын

They are actually helping people who have left the cult. Do you have a rebuttal to all the things they brought up that are harmful? Or you just going to stand on your blanket statement that they are doing harm? It' literally sounds moronic without any supporting evidence that they are the ones and not the toxic things the church does to people in and out of the church...

@livingmombirth4005 4 ай бұрын

So sad that you folks are so blinded. The lies are thick and deep here. I'm constantly amazed how so many people leaving the church can't leave it alone. The church members constantly rank among the happiest groups in the world. Despite what you say the truth is that you are trying to make people less happy like yourselves.

@user-by3me4vr5j 4 ай бұрын

Maybe you should do the same as you are requesting from them. Why don't you try leaving them alone? This is THEIR channel and a "safe place" for those who have been harmed by the church. This site is for them, not you. Stay off the sites as you are commanded to do by your leaders and we will stay away from your place of worship. If mormons can go out into the world pushing for their religion, then it's only fair that people who have left can do the same. As for being blinded, maybe you should take a good hard look in the mirror to see who the blinded truly are. BTW, who has ranked Mormons amongst the happiest groups in the world? I'm guessing you were told that from your leadership because what I remember from my days as a Mormon, nothing could be further from the truth. Talk about thick lies.

@Faith.unraveled 4 ай бұрын

There is no health in silencing people.

@user-mz3px1xs2l 4 ай бұрын

I’ve never been happier than after I dumped Mormonism. My wife and kids are the same. I no longer end each day in tears feeling like I’ve failed and will not be with my “eternal” family. My wife is overcoming scrupulosity and perfectionism, and my gay son is being treated for complex PTSD he was given by your church. It’s all fine if it works for you. But judging and condemning us for doing different is very unChristlike. But also VERY Mormon. You should learn about the real Jesus…

@PaperclipProphets 5 ай бұрын

Sorry to say this so bluntly, but as a former member of a cult that distorts Jesus you don’t really understand what He preached. He said to love your neighbor and your enemies, but He never justified sin. I love you enough to tell you that Jesus spoke a lot about those who will NOT make the Kingdom of Heaven. Not once, did the Risen Savior speak about unconditional love. God lays out the things He hates clearly in the Bible & Jesus did not contradict the Father once.

@nathanbigler 5 ай бұрын

No one knows what Jesus said, or even if he was a real person. The Bible is completely unreliable

@JIKOKALOL 5 ай бұрын

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life". That's His unconditional love.

@nathanbigler 5 ай бұрын

@@JIKOKALOL lol

@TalismanianDevil 4 ай бұрын

Looks like you missed John 13:43, KJV “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.”

@PaperclipProphets 4 ай бұрын

@@TalismanianDevil I didn’t miss it, as I said Jesus tells us to love one another, but that doesn’t justify or condone sin. I will spare my time of listing countless warnings Jesus gave regarding those who will NOT enter Heaven. “Unconditional love” does not negate the penalty for sin.