Don't waste YOUR money on 12V. $6,123.74 for lithium and INDUCTION?

In this video we’ll be designing and building a 12 volt system for my Canopy fitout. If you’re thinking about remote touring with induction then this is a must watch video for you because we’ll be talking about the minimum requirements you’ll need for a reliable system.
We’re also going to be covering all the electrical components I chose and why and run through a real life scenario with my recommendations for your 12 volt system. Finally we’re going to give you a full cost breakdown to maximise your value when you’re buying a 12 volt system.
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[@nickunw]

Huge battery amp capacity for induction rules out solar. Even a 250w panel running zero loss and zero draw from anything like fridges is 20amp per hour. Why bother

[@lisanelsen7140]

Hi @nickunw, I'm trying to understand.... are you saying that solar is not good at supporting induction?

[@nickunw]

@@lisanelsen7140 hey Lisa, I’m saying solar doesn’t produce enough power to support induction. The cost and effort required to setup, clean or manoeuvre for realistically 10 to 15 amps per hour, doesn’t add up. Let’s say you have a 250w panel which can give you maybe 15amps an hour. 4 to 5 hours of good sun per day. Minus 5amps per hour for the fridge and another 1 or 2 amps on music, phone charging etc. means you get 9amp going into the battery per hour on a perfect blue sky day with a clean panel, facing the sun = 45amp charge to a 220amp system. If you had a caravan and 1000w on the roof, sure. But a 120w or even 250w panel does cut the mustard. Happy to be wrong!! As solar does charge the battery yes. But extra gear to pay for, pack in the car, clean, manoeuvre if you want good performance all for 45amps on a good day?… What do you think?

[@darrensmith4661]

What every your battery capacity is, you need double the solar. This is considering that the location you are in allows for 80% efficiency from the solar panels. e.g cloud cover can reduce a quality 150W panel from producing 7amps per hour (approx 80%) down to a max of 2 amps per hour. Very quickly will chew through the battery capacity.

[@nickunw]

@@darrensmith4661 so what’s the general double rule? Say you have 220amp of battery

[@chasp_0784]

@@nickunwthen you would want 440w of solar for adequate support.

[@grahamhastie896]

What I did to allay the large Capacitor charge current in my Invertor was connecting a very large 2200 ohm 20watt resistor ACROSS the invertor breaker switch terminals, with a small switch in series, and an inline auto cct breaker (35amp ) with the resistor, and the switch labelled "Inv Stby". This switch is turned off when invertor not reqd. As your heading off on your trip, flip this standby switch on, this will allow the capacitors to slowly charge, the current greatly limited by the series resistor, so when you flip its main breaker/switch on , there is no huge inrush of charge current. Have used this system on installs over the last 30 odd years with never a problem...This charge current used to cause large arcs across breaker/switch contacts, resulting in long term damage and premature failure of the switches, especially this Chinese crap thats available nowdays.......Hope this helps......Cheers

[@bryanwaser1429]

one of the best built out explanations and power consumption videos I've seen. Great job!

[@MHP47]

Great stuff mate, nice to see the real scenario break down, and the being realistic rather than fooling yourself. Keep up the amazing content 🙂

[@nickunw]

So true eh! Most changes 12v system cost more than my car. All for what, so you can turn a light off from your phone?

[@joshuarogers7514]

Another great video that you have done. I've been watching your videos for a while and love the content. This video has helped me with my research in setting up my 12 volt system in my Mazda Bt50. I've also entered the Kincrome competition on there channel. Thanks again and look forward to the next one.

[@danielbolger9009]

Love the analysis and reflection on the setup at the end after it has been tried and tested

[@stivenanastasov1210]

Best video I’ve seen in a while, more than happy to subscribe!

[@EastofSomewhere]

You probably could consider adding solar panels to each of the canopy wings and one to the roof running a dedicated mppt. That way you have extra gains from the sun and they are maximised when you stop and open the canopy. Have a look at the Everlanders video on the foldable side panels.

[@nickunw]

Great to see a realistic 12v system!

[@timcroft8633]

Loving your video and information mate, keep it up

[@shanenorwell8580]

Love your work mate and its inspired me to redo my canopy fitout. On the note go the dc-dc charger you should be seeing over 50 amps out of the 1250 so there’s 2 things to have a look at. Cable size needs to be fairly big to supply the voltages at 60-65 amps and they also derate as they heat up, so try to disparate that heat as much as you can.

[@hamishjohnson9678]

Outstanding entertainment like always keep up the good work Richard

[@michaelbreeze4292]

great breakdown! thank you very much!

[@bretthawton]

Your summary at the end that discusses what happend when you ran out of power was hilarious!

[@matthewduke9743]

Looks mint. Great video

[@MattysWorkshop]

Gday, that’s a good setup and it’s user friendly, at least this setup can be sort out if something goes wrong not like the other units that are more computerised, great job and thanks for the detailed video, cheers

[@nickunw]

Have you seen the clip where Matt explore life gets stuck in a big hole because his Bluetooth sync to his lockers failed!? It’s a cracker!! That was the icing on the cake for me. Good old $6 eBay darling switch please and thanks for coming

[@bailey088]

I had the same issue in my caravan with the itech 3000 watt inverter. Mine was changed under warranty to include a automatic transfer switch. This fixed the problem immediately. Your correct it’s when the inverter tries to start up it trips the batteries. I no longer have a switch to change from mains to inverter. They recommend leaving the inverter on but mine seems to turn on and off now without issue using the remote switch you also have. Itech are aware of this issue

[@jacks86australia]

Hey mate, in the spirit of robust discussion I'd have to disagree with a few points. The system you have is brilliant and obviously what you're after now but having to move every day to run it is a real pain. Your camping/touring style might change over time. My system uses a DCDC charger (25amp) run off an upgraded alternator and a 150w solar panel on the roof. I run a 55L chest fridge/freezer that's very thermally efficient and has limited current draw. Especially as it's encased in my drawer setup and the motor unit is separate and we'll ventilated. My AGM 134amp hr battery is still in use, likely replacing it with lithium but it's 8 years old now and still running fine so I won't replace it until it's dead (I look after if and don't let it run down so as an experiment I'd like to see how long I can get out of it). I also run a smaller 20L Engel fridge as a freezer on longer trips and when parked up have a light weight 150w solar blanket. My cooking set up is a 2L gas bottle and a petrol pump stove. I run two fuel mixes as you can't always get LPG and if I need to run petrol for a week or two I can. The LPG 2L will last me a month on the road if I'm conservative ie use the fire for slow cooking camp oven meals vs on the stove for 2hrs. The petrol stove is a simple burner and very light. I run a 300w inverter which allows charging of all laptops, radios and some smaller drones. Probably not enough for someone like you doing full time KZbin. The old chest freezer isn't dead. A stand up fridge is very user friendly but a chest fridge lets me fully use every square inch of the fridge and is more efficient than a stand up unit as you're not losing cold air every time you open it. I also cryovac meat the the size of my freezer compartment so it's one block and has limited space. This allows maximum freezer usage and is more efficient as you can pack in blocks of daily portions. This set up let's me go remote, not needing to see a town for 2-3 weeks. Horses for courses but I figured you would like to see a comparison to your setup. All up my unit never really drops below 80% over night and is fully charged by noon (victron gauge unit). On cloudy days it can struggle but then I'm just mindful of what I'm using and it's only an issue after 4-5 days of really cloudy weather. I've replicated this system for a few mates and done their wiring fitout as it's simple and come in under a $1000 all up. Another feature is that I've wired up the charging system to be able to be diverted to the front battery so if I'm remote and have an alternator failure I can recharge the front battery off the solar system while driving.

[@weeds5636]

agree re chest fridge vs bar fridge - doesn't loose all its coolth when u open the door as cold air drops next thing is when the Lithiums shit themselves far earlier in their life than the brochures state

[@nordic5490]

You are doing it wrong. My overnight power consumption, cooking + toaster + kettle several times + fridge is approx 80AH. Ie 1/4 of the capacity of my 240ah LFP batteries. I have 90A dcdc charging (50A Redarc + 40A Kings), and that 80ah takes less than 1hr of driving to fully recharge. I also own solar blankets that can produce 17A in full sun (measured by me) and thus can also recharge that 80ah in 5.7hrs in optimal conditions. We are very unlikely not to drive anywhere on any day, and if we did stay put, and it was heavily overcast, we still have several days of LFP battery capacity without using the solar blankets. Thus, I dont even take the solar blankets anymore, they really are unnecessary. Your tiny 25A dcdc is you limiting factor, the choke point. Buy a couple of cheap Kings 40A dcdc charge controllers. 80a of charging goodness will change your opinion. Kings 40A dcdc are very often $250 each onsale (as per today). Kings 120AH LFP are $400 each atm. Kings 3000w inverter is $250 atm. Add approx $300 for all your wiring + lugs + fuses. You will now have a setup that will cook, power a toaster and a kettle, and pretty much anything 240v. Your misso and kids will love you for this. Ditch the gas mate.

[@jacks86australia]

@@nordic5490 all I see in that is complexity and cost, I can run two fridges, lights, inverter and chargers off my system, if I went to induction I'd need to triple my system. Your system sounds ace, but it's not for me, appreciate the run down but.

[@-PORK-CHOP-]

@@nordic5490 Do a search for a teardown of the Kings batteries, these are rubbish inside (hence why they are cheap) loose connections from factory and no way to fix this without having to almost break the lid off, (because they glue them on) loose terminals and high current equals high temps at the terminals which can easily lead to a fire, Kings should recall these and change the manufacturing process, then start to QA these properly at the factory

[@-PORK-CHOP-]

@@jacks86australia You're 100% correct, too many YT show off these elaborate systems such as Jonathan Chow, his system must have cost $30K to $40K, even this one at $6K is to pricey for most

[@NickCarbs98]

can fit a current restrictor for inverter start up, may be able to get one thats activated via switch

[@cyclemoto8744]

Thanks for the content. Cheers. PS: 200 or 220AH of battery capacity is on the small side for a 3000W inverter.

[@turtleman1703]

Love your work mate, got me keen to do more to mine. Hope you don't mind borrowing some of your ideas.

[@87xfute]

Great job boys well done. Seeya Rob

[@NAGoodness]

Dunno if you'll see this comment, but hopefully you will. The Redarc 1250 maxes out at about 47a, the fact you're getting 35a suggests your battery cable isn't sufficient to the main battery. For that run and amps, 4bns would be the best option. More than most people use, but my experience suggests that's what's necessary. Also for anyone playong at home, the 1240 Core puts out 43a, and coming it at half the price is a great option to save some cash. Also in regards to the inverter, I've never seen any others do that but I would hazard a guess iTech would be the issue here over Baintech from personal experience. You can wake them up using a small voltage and amp drawer, so a fused switch from your DC input cable, wired through a resister commonly used for LED tail lights and connected to your batteries or something that goes to your batteries will be enough to wake them up. Also handy if you deplete your batteries to the point they shut down, which can occasionally happen, especially with bug usages like induction. But otherwise, love the install and the video!

[@nordic5490]

i bought a Redarc 50a dcdc, but... after repeated testing on the bench and in my car, it over heats after 15mins, and throttles back to about 42A if not mounted in the airflow. I mounted a 80mm computer fan to it and it now runs @ 50A continous. Overrated imo. I also bought a 40A Kings dcdc that does run @ 40A and doesnt seem to get hot, ie, a more efficient cct. The kings 40a is only $250. Better off running 2 of the kings. I run the 50A Redarc + 40A Kings dcdc together to charge my 2x 120ah Kings LFP batteries in less than 1hr.

[@nordic5490]

I have that very same 50A Redarc dcdc, and mine does charge the batteries @ 50A until the last few mins, where the batteries balance. I have a 65A 13.5v supply on the bench. Severalmfull charge discharge cycles to test all of this before it went into the car. I am monitoring in cab using the same Vitron shunt with remote display. Tip, increase your cable size. I ran a 35mm2 cable to my 150A underbonnet maxi fuse, then 50mm2 direct to my alternator output terminal. This set up supports a 50A redarc plus a 40a Kings dcdc inparallel. My 80AH overnights use is typically recharged in less than 1hr of driving. We dont use gas anymore. Cooking + toaster + kettle (multiple boils) + charging gadgets (I am also a tog) typically uses 80AH overnight between driving. I charge my camera batteries durning the day as soon as they leave the camera.

[@rljzathras]

You need a pre-charge resistor that will limit the current into your inverter. Obviously you cannot power via this when using the inverter, but it would limit the surge current charging the BIG capacitors inside the inverter. But if you can get the caps charged up BEFORE you hit the main switch you will be good. BTW, the Renogy 3kW inverter is quite slim in comparison.

[@evil17]

Nice job Nick, you are a very talented guy & I love ur vids & work. The comments & yours are mostly right regarding the inrush current to the inverter caps tripping the battery BMS’s, that is what’s happening! I would first suggest you check how much if any measurable current is being drawn from ur batteries when u turn the inverter off at its switch or remote, because without switching off the main switch u are only keeping the capacitors charged which does not use much unless u want to shut the system down for a fair while, months even, if the inverter caps are half decent they should not leak that much power, so leave the main switch on, its only there as a safety for shutting down for work or failures in an emergency situation. I have a few sets of Maxwell 3400 farad caps that will hold a starting charge for a month, I use them for Solar & inverter setups & for jump starting anything as they can deliver up to 10,000A supposedly. If u do think u still want to add a resistor (which is not a bad idea) to pre-prime ur caps & stop excessive arcing at ur main switch contacts when u turn it on (another reason not to turn it off unless necessary), I would suggest you only need any small resistor, a small filament light bulb, & even a lead pencil works, I used a 5w resistors on my 3000w inverter this morning to excite the caps, I just flicked it a few times to see if I could see a spark, but I did not, I then hit the battery terminal and no spark it took about 1 second to charge, so what u could do is add a wire from ur input side of ur DC-DC charger or its activation wire & add in a small resistor (or even a small 1w or more filament pilot light bulb better still, not LED) to this circuit to the inverter side of ur main switch to precharge the inverter caps whenever the DC-DC charger is on, you may need a relay to seperate the dcdc input current from the lithium battery power + for this circuit if u dont use a bulb, but this should keep ur inverter caps charged whenever ur moving & they should hold that charge long enough until you flip the main switch. If u use a light bulb, it should light up as the caps charge if they are down, & then go out as they reach full charge. Inverters should not use much, if any power when turned off, unless they are in a searching mode for switching on appliances, but yes there will be a very small leakage current to keep the capacitors charged, I would just leave the main switch on as this will also increase ur batteries output surge capacity to a degree as well as filtering power going in & out of ur battery setup, but you do you & keep it up. Hope this makes sense. Cheers & thanks for all ur gr8 content.

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Thank you, that makes sense! Will give it a go!!!

[@s3uoq]

Love the vid bud and excellent setup but I'll definitely stick with lpg or campfire for majority of cooks as it's way easier when it's not a total fire ban or in an area that doesn't allow solid fuel cooking.

[@BAJATWIN]

Man haven’t heard that song in a while ay good beat

[@elceemo4383]

I come for the music 🎵 and stay for the content 😂

[@John.strong]

my kings 3000w inverter will also turn off the lithium bms as soon as i turn it on I'd like to see how you sort this, i just hook in a lead acid every time i turn it on i run it off grid and use it 100% of the time so last time it was turned off was 3 months ago...

[@Nicholaswilms17]

What cad do u use and is it for free 👍👍❤️❤️🍺🍺 love the build

[@v8greg79]

Hi Nick. Do you have a link for the light bars used in your canopy please? Cheers.

[@Wilbargosh]

Your inverter is bigger than your batteries can handle. Drop back to 2000w inverter and only use one induction plate. Chuck in a gas burner as a backup. My Norweld built Extreme wiring package (Enerdrive) cost $9k a few years ago and that price included labour to build on a jig and install. I put a 200W solar panel on the roof to trickle charge the battery for the fridge draw when parked up and if need, I can plug into the ACDC charger.

[@richardpilla5524]

Did you look at safiery induction cook tops? They have a model that can run off 2000w inverter, I don't know all the figures but you would save space alone in running a 2000w inverter instead of the 3000w.

[@chrisfisher3900]

Love that rig man,fucking mint!

[@Alan.livingston]

I love watching people build beefy 12v for induction but I’m way too much of a tight arse to pay that extra $2k or more for a stove that is only useful if I’m driving every day. Like old mate said. If he parks up he’s got to bring a genny or run gas anyways.

[@warrenhunts]

I agree that solar wont contribute meaningfully to induction-level power consumption. But, my 100w panel allows me to not have to think about packing food on a short notice trip. I keep my fridge running 365 days a year, stocked with long shelf life things like salami and hard cheese. I suppose if you can actually fit you rig in your garage you could replace solar with a shore power charger for the same purpose.

[@Thebudgetcamper]

Hey mate, although the itechworld inverter is good it might be better to upgrade the batteries to the 150amp hour ones. And change to the VictronConnect 3000watt inverter charger. Stay at a camp site with electricity you’ve got 120amp charge. Great video

[@kadmow]

- however a 3kW Victron Inverter charger- assuming you are meaning a Quattro or MultiPlus or similar that just ate half of the total build in $$ terms. Probably higher reliability, definitely greater flexibility, but more costly - stacking DC-DC chargers seems adequate - will wait for updates..

[@kylecordina7159]

you should look into a high output alternator paired with a wake speed external regulator

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Cheers Kyle, will do!

[@Falcon_Overland]

I think it is fair that itech and your battery brand pointed the finger at each other. But i think you’ll find it’s more to do with those batteries having a really weak peak current bms. I’d buy a 0.5 or 1 farad car audio capacitor to put in parallel which should sort your issues. I’ve been in the campervan outfitting business for 8 years now and haven’t ever seen this problem before. I also think itech world may have a larger than normal capacitor bank. And it seems they also have a disconnect between there capacitor bank and terminal when you’ve got the switch off. Most inverters don’t have this.

[@xLopez210x]

Writing as i watch, I’m designing my system the same as you. I don’t believe we need an entire expensive Redarc system when it’s just a bunch of switches. Might not look as pretty but it’s more customizable, more true to the term “built not bought” 11:06. Two years back i bought a 2000w inverter because everyone was like “If you continue to run it’ll drain your battery faster with 2000w”… well duh if you have it on constantly. But i didn’t know that at the time. Should have gone 3k. 14:15 This is just my opinion so it’s worth as much as whatever you think of it… buying two alternators just to charge your system is not worth the amount of gas or diesel to run the engine unless you use that time to run the trails to charge (which I’m sure most of you will say “well duh, it’s not gonna be idle“). 23:22 I’m definitely going thru some trial and error CAD designs To stack different panels on the roof in some fashion. They need to improve solar soon for sure Great video!!! Great design!!! I liked every minute

[@davidwebb7879]

Amazing build and amazing work. Can you share the grommets you sed for the cables please I am about to start my canopy wiring build.?

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Thank you! www.repco.com.au/parts-service/fasteners-and-fixings/rubber-grommets/gj-works-grab-kit-wiring-grommets-gka86/p/A9536921?rgfeed=true&cid=google-shopping&region_id=100254&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAjfyqBhAsEiwA-UdzJDRF_j2vgImr5qi9bWbU99uf8rUeWg48X-3V5XdTmgyM1VHjRhz8EBoCkFMQAvD_BwE

[@malcolmquick3708]

I didn't understand anything you said. I think the only way that I could get a system like this is t o get someone else to build it for me . Who would you recommend on the sunshine coast Queensland

[@IowaLR4]

Surprised you only see 35/40 amps from the BCDC50.. I get like 48 amps running a 6awg cable about 9 feet to my redarc and then into two 170ah renogy lifepo4 batts. I got rid of my solar because it was just nothing compared to the 50 amp dcdc. I also have a victron 25 amp shore power charger that I can plug into the wall in the garage if I need.. I don't even use induction, but having 340ah(4,200 watt hours) is fantastic. I sleep in my rig on solo trips and I use fans or heated blanket/small space heater for my temp control. Water pumps, compressors, ham radio, the gadgets can run endlessly on this much power.

[@cyclemoto8744]

Had the same thought. I get up to 35 amps with a Victron DCDC charger which has advertised spec of 30amp charge, using 4 AWG cable from engine bay to cargo area of wagon which is approx 6 metres for the cable run.

[@nordic5490]

Yup, the cables are too small. I runna 50mm2 cable direct from the alternator to the 150A underbonnet maxi fuse, then 35mm2 back to mid car to a bolt terminal, then a 50A Redarc + 40A Kings dcdc in parallel - yes, I do get 88A dcdc charging at 1500rpm

[@unimog404]

Your cables to the inverter looks quite thin. My Victron 2000va 1600watt runs on 70mm2 cable. 50mm2 could work but I choose 1 step higher.

[@edoffher]

The instructions on my 3000.w inverter from Itec world mentioned to charge the batteries with 240v charger when “ first” connecting the inverter to the batteries however all my set up is Itec world, and my inverter is 2 years old, this instruction may be different to yours.

[@aron2199]

This confirms my thinking that induction cooking for touring and camping is not generally advantageous for 90% of people - 300Ah is almost the minimum safe battery size / much bigger inverter needed plus extra thick cable needed to delivery 200amp etc etc…. Much cheaper/ lighter to use gas and if carting gas is worry just carry those 480g propane bottles…

[@nordic5490]

Induction is better for most people. Lack of good information is the limiting factor atm. Kings 40A dcdc are very often $250 each onsale (as per today). Kings 120AH LFP are $400 each atm. Kings 3000w inverter is $250 atm. Add approx $300 for all your wiring + lugs + fuses. For under $2k, will now have a setup that will cook, power a toaster and a kettle, and pretty much anything 240v. Your misso and kids will love you for this. You also shouln't keep the gas bottle in you car. Where do you store it ? On the back of your car ? On the roof ? Or do you not care about your families safety and store it inside ? Ditch the gas mate. My overnight power consumption, cooking + toaster + kettle several times + fridge is approx 80AH. Ie 1/4 of the capacity of my 240ah LFP batteries. I have 90A dcdc charging (50A Redarc + 40A Kings), and that 80ah takes less than 1hr of driving to fully recharge. I also own solar blankets that can produce 17A in full sun (measured by me) and thus can also recharge that 80ah in 5.7hrs in optimal conditions. We are very unlikely not to drive anywhere on any day, and if we did stay put, and it was heavily overcast, we still have several days of LFP battery capacity without using the solar blankets. Thus, I dont even take the solar blankets anymore, they really are unnecessary.

[@kadmow]

Re capacitor tripping battery bms - look into "precharge off-grid inverters" - it would be possible to use a double throw switch (for "hardstarts" only) to swap in a a power resistor - (~0.25 ohm should limit current to under 50amps - on a dead short) a lightbulb or heater element may be the simplest way to limit current during precharge.) into the inverter positive lead... Explanations of your work is great. NB. for education content, try to not mix units Amps, Amp hours , etc. Amps per/an hour - isn't a thing, we could be pumping 100AmpHours per hour into a battery if the Alternator is cranking at 100Amps continuous... (Amps is used as a "substitute" for power, (Watts) = Amps x Voltage,. Amp-hours (NOT amps per hour) sub in for energy , Energy (Joules) which just adds up all the seconds worth of Power (watts) - or the "hours worth of amps.).. Mixed quantities continue int he comments, folk who are learning may screw it up, or just get confused reading spect when they confuse Current for Energy capacity - ie., not many 200Ah (energy capacity) batteries can deliver 200A (current x volts = Watts = 200Ax12V = 2400 Watts (2.4kW nominal electrical ) ) continuously, that ass-umption could be mildly disastrous for some... ok, just for laughs, no stress. (Note 50A Andersons aren't rated for what many 100Ah batteries are rated to discharge continuously)

[@nordic5490]

LFP is pretty stable 13.4 to 13.7V over most of its charge / discharge cycle, so AH is an ok unit. I prefer to use Kwhr, but it doesnt really matter. Yes, a well crimped 50A Anderson with 6GA wire work ok at 50A continuous, but the 6GA wire itself will become very hot at 100A. 100A is ok for short durations.

[@Ravoony]

Love your work,we are ravoony car wrap suppiler,do you want to try car wrap?

[@hpremier817]

Curious to see a cost/weight/convenience analysis done on a setup like this. 300ah of lithium, 2 high capacity DCDC chargers, a high output alternator and a high capacity inverter when compared to a gas bottle and a twin burner stove seems to be a hugely impractical. Not only in $$$ but also convenience and the weight of all the extra components... Clearly induction stoves are the new fancy thing to do, however it still seems to be extremely exspensive and the cost, weight and convenience is not adding up. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this one.

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Hey Hayden, wasn't ever planning on videos like that as so many other people do them but I'm not against it either. Induction v Gas seems to generate a lot of interest. Would have to spend a bit of time putting it all together before I could give you my proper insights. Cheers, Richard

[@dylanzoccoli697]

The reason your batteries bms is triggering over current is because those batteries have a max discharge of 100amp continuous, in paralell you end up with 200amps. Im not 100% sure why this would trigger on start up, possibly as you said this is a inrush current issue. But with only 200amps of continuous discharge on your batteries this is tip toeing the line with the current needed to run the inverter at full power and even with you induction cooktop of 2400watts at full power.

[@DesignedandBuilt]

The cooktop on full power does not trigger the BMS. It is close to the limit agree and if you were to pull 3000 watts from the inverter you would probably need different batteries. The cooker pulls 180 amps at full power which will not trip the battery BMS and is unrelated to the start up issue.

[@Sethjxl]

@@DesignedandBuilt Going to need an inrush resistor to charge up the caps in a controlled manner. Putting a cap on the battery may resolve this issue, however if that cap discharges completely, you might just be moving the problem closer to the battery. The problem with an inrush resistor for the invertor is that you are using the remote panel, so you can't just put the resistor on the input for the inverter because it is being supplied with un-switched +ve. Going back to having a cap on the battery; that may be an easier way to "manage" the issue as you could easily connect a resistor to prevent in-rush current. Personally, I would open the invertor, find the trigger from the remote and print a small circuit that charges up the caps before the main fets are triggered. This is poor design by the manufacturer IMO. The inverter specs call for 375A supply current fused at 450A. While the supply current is is within spec of your batteries (in parallel), I suspect it is exceeding that given the peak output rating is 6000W which you are 100A short of under the current config. I suggest the first thing you do is put a mustimeter on the inverter set to voltage and holding the lowest reading. Switch on the inverter and see how low the voltage drops. You may find you are getting significant voltage drop and thus the amp draw is much higher and the batteries go into protection mode. There are also some things to look at with those Anderson plugs which may be causing a cascading failure, but I would check your voltages first.

[@Falcon_Overland]

You can actually run different brand and size lithium batteries in parallel with no issues, it’s a big misconception. There are some limitations like how bms’s are set, some are set to turn off at 11v others 11.5v so if you’re drawing a big load off both batteries and it gets down to 11.5v one battery turns off and then the other basically doubles the current been drawn and the bms will go into over current protection which isn’t necessary good for it. But all in all the negatives are very negligible and you can treat them the same as agm. You definitely can’t put them in series or mix agm with lithiums in parallel.

[@Falcon_Overland]

Loved the video though very good work

[@evil17]

Some lithiums (BMS’s)u can put in series, even the more recent Kings lithium batteries can be 4 in series &/or parallel for 12v, 24v, 36v or 48v systems.

[@nordic5490]

​@@evil17beware. Only some LFP batteries can be wired in series without additional control. One method: Some manufacturers have a data bus where the different bms talk to each other. Most 24 and 48v LFP chargers will have additional intermediate voltage sense wires and can adjust the charge accordingly. But, in 2023, one 13.6v LFP battery is now efficient enough. No real justification to go 24v or 24v now for camping.

[@evil17]

@@nordic5490 true, but I did say some lithiums, I mentioned this because I was surprised that Kings did have this ability as many do not, definitely dont series connect lithium batteries if you dont know if they are capable of series connecting.

[@SHOCKcustoms]

Red hot tip, youll end up fitting solar panels. A single 200w or 250w will work better than youve allowed for. Solar is really worthwhile. Did you bother getting to gpo and 240v install certified by a qualified sparky?

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Hi Mike, I don’t think it’s enough to replenish induction as I outlined in my scenario! Handy for keeping your fridges running maybe. Yep, used a qualified sparky for all the 240v install!

[@SHOCKcustoms]

@DesignedandBuilt I think if you install the large array you can fit you'll be pleasantly surprised especially with the bcdc 50a. I know a few people that have said as you did, "were always moving and don't need solar", they've all fitted panels now and enjoy the solar generation. The addition of a solar blanket on the windscreen before bed and a fixed panel on the rack go a long way to harvesting amps to replenish your system.

[@bushmagpie3312]

Seems a great setup. I would change the 12V 110AH for the 150Ah. As for the inverter in rush, putting a capacitor may make it worse as caps have high in rush to charge. Better to get an inductor which you can design easily. Needs to be in circuit for 5 seconds to charge inverter cap. Then switch direct to battery. Charging you could have 2 slide out solar panels on draw runners on roof or solar blanket out on bonnet to increase the charge. Keep videos coming. Great economical build which is easy to repair on side of road.

[@RADFilmsQLD]

Good camera talent. 👌 Let me know if you want to step up with more serious filming and editing. I specialise in 4WD trips, builds and productions. We can get some real sponsors so you can ditch that day job.

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Sounds good mate, email [e-mail]!

[@gogaming32_51]

I hate to be that guy, but a kickass 3000w inverter is actually lithium compatible meaning it won’t pull that massive inrush current which trips out most lithium batteries, for the extra money I went that because that way when I do go lithium I don’t have to worry about any problems as all my gear is already lithium compatible

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Fair enough! I think you’ll find the Itech world one is as well, just a shame it’s happening. Easy enough to fix though!

[@Prawntails]

You probably resolved but batteries have a rated output max current. So hence the drop out and weak link.

[@6226superhurricane]

i look at things in a different way, standard size batteries make more sense because they are cheaper and easier to source a replacement that fits in future. when someone makes a 12v fridge that beats an engel for efficiency and reliability i'll think about changing. and there's no rule that says you need a slide. a single induction cooktop makes sense for small jobs like boiling water, reheating meals etc but without the battery capacity and solar to cook roasts, stews, bake bread you'll still need gas because you can't count on being able to have a fire all he time.

[@kadmow]

- indeed, I don't use a slide - it wastes too much space and my canopy design has a lower rail - needing the fridge to be set even higher - I use a step to access the chest fridge - the Mrs doesn't mind it (and I am usually around to help dig the dinner items out of the fridge. Sure an upright is easier to access - (so long as everthing is well restrained so it doesn't empty itself out as the door opens). Mostly I "run wot I brung and bring wot I got" (sic) buy once and only cry again when it breaks for good..

[@6226superhurricane]

@@kadmow yes it's not as if you need to go in the fridge every 5 minutes. get out what you need for dinner and have your drinks accessible so you can reach in and grab one without looking.

[@Karakaboardriders]

So seems like your saying you need bigger battery’s? I think id still have a sola panel then you’d have some charge while your just in camp

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Hey mate did you watch the part about the charge rate solar can offer? Pretty futile, 50 hours of solar required for one induction cook. That’s 8 days (6 hours per day of good sun) at camp to charge your batteries to cook again if you aren’t running anything else.

[@TorqHub]

​@DesignedandBuilt 300w solar blanket could potentially extend to 10 hours of optimum sunlight, say it nets a conservative 12amps. Not a full charge, no. But realistically you probably wouldn't be running both burners for 1.5hrs each time either.

[@nickunw]

@@TorqHub hahah i laughed when I saw this too. Who cooks a 1.5hr. double burner, duck risotto for 5 people. Usual cook time surely is less.

[@kadmow]

- the guys seem to want to cook for the whole party daily (on full power) - these great modern conveniences show up the limitations of being "offgrid" in a simple way. Reality is, dinner doesn't necessarily take half an hour to cook every day (2400W/12V x 0.5h = 100 Ah for a cook - usiing full power) 300w solar = 25A at 12v Nominal - , will put that back in in 4-8 hours depending on how bad the sun angle is.. (or an hour or2 driving with that DC-DC setup, if the alternator is good for it.). Planning on draining batteries on a daily basis isn't really a good plan, hmmm.. A gas burner in the box still makes sense - I have had compact burners and disposable canisters in my "go-box" for decades, you know just in case - I also throw solar on the roof on camping trips (stiffened - suntuff - flexible panels strapped up on top of my roof bag - I have 200W, and that does for my needs - no induction cooker, just a simple system and 1kW inverter for basic AC needs). My cam0 can run for the good part of a week without solar or starting the vehicle. I have 6kW of solar at home with an AC coupled 3kW inverter charger, it only charges the 10kWh LFP (800Ah 12V) at 1200W, I know that inverter capacity, battery size and recharge capacity offgrid don't at all translate to any long term significant power output at steady state. When on limited energy one does conserve... Gas, Wood, solar-thermal-cooker, ... anything is on the table if no ideological bias is in force.

[@Karakaboardriders]

I'm starting to think gas would be easier after some of these comments 😉 I am an induction fan I have that at home and really like it

[@Chopped62patrol]

Why not ditch the 50amp charger and go for a victron argofet? I run a 3 battery one, gives me around 80-110amp of charge to my batteries and keeps my 400AH canopy set up always charged with less than 2 hours of driving

[@DesignedandBuilt]

I honestly haven't heard of the product, sounds good from your description though. Got a link?

[@nickunw]

oh what, this sounds sick. 80 to 110amps is the correct charge rate for a 200+ amp system. High output deserves high input

[@IowaLR4]

I would assume this requires a special alternator? I wouldn't want to pull that much off my factory land rover alternator, but it handles 50 amps just fine.

[@kadmow]

@@DesignedandBuilt the Argofet is a battery bank isolator, not a charge controller / charger.

[@SUPERTRUCKER166]

@@DesignedandBuiltagrofet isn’t a charger it’s an isolator. You would be looking at the victron buckboost dcdc chargers. Which come in a few sizes up to 100a. I’ve got 2 of them feeding into 1120a of lithium, and a rapid power 320a alternator powering it all. It has solar as well, 1430w, and it’s on a dual cab canter truck

[@Seshonium]

Love the content, forgot the give away? :D

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Forgot to watch the whole video 😝? It’s in there!

[@Seshonium]

@@DesignedandBuilt I may or may not of zoned out with that math lesson towards the end 😅

[@DesignedandBuilt]

@@Seshonium 🤣

[@Bizzo_]

vertical fridges are OOTG and the only choice

[@nordic5490]

After a day on heavy corregations, every thing falls to the bottom of a vertical fridge. I wont buy one.

[@bradpearsall6783]

Solar for the win

[@nickunw]

disagree. If you have a 250w panel running in absolutely perfect conditions, sun angle, panels are clean, zero voltage drop over cable length and zero battery drain from other elements in your system. You're looking at 20amps per hour. On a 220amp battery bank, you're looking at 11hrs charge from flat or 9hrs from 20%. Big battery banks the 8amp solar really gets, doenst cut it.

[@gregdogg10]

@@nickunwrule of thumb is to have double the solar compared to your battery capacity eg 200ah batteries = 400w of solar. Couple of solar blankets will do the trick. Should only be topping up from 60-80% most days.

[@nickunw]

@@gregdogg10 yeah really like it! To generate 400amps from solar in a day is 80amps per hour (5hr good solar per day) that's about 1100w at 14v. So about 4 or 5 decent 250w panels. It's a lot. Have I done the maths right there? Agreed, would be awesome to only have to top up from 60-80% each day, but induction sucks far more than that.

[@gregdogg10]

@@nickunw sorry I meant 400w of solar. You are generally only cooking dinner on induction unless you’re having bacon and eggs every day. If you have the cooker on for an hour, (that would be heaps) mine would probably draw around 90amps which is roughly 60% of my 200ah battery capacity. Can put about 20ah in on full sun and the rest of the day keeps topping it up aswell. Most of the time am running the induction for less than an hour though so easily keeps up when stationary.

[@nickunw]

@@gregdogg10 yeh 400w makes a lot more sense. 90amps for dinner seems like a good goal. Get it sorted in 90 and it’s sustainable. Is that a twin induction 2400w unit? Also a sucker for a morning coffee or two so add another 10-20amps for that. Still achievable.

[@-PORK-CHOP-]

Looks great, but keep slamming that induction cooktop in like you did and it will be broken in no time

[@Aetisdios]

I have itechworld stuff too. It’s pretty good value for money - but the service is terrible. I wouldn’t buy them again in my next build.

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Interesting - I had a good experience with them but thanks for letting me know.

[@davidwood2654]

Jet boil !!

[@Jess-xe8bq]

how much was your dc-dc charger mate. That's not in your cost sheet.

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Just using the Redarc 50A. About $650

[@nordic5490]

​@@DesignedandBuilti bought a Redarc 50a dcdc, but... after repeated testing on the hench and in my car, it over heats after 15mins, and throttles back to about 42A if not mounted in the airflow. I mounted a 80mm computer fan tomit ajd it runs @ 50A continous. Overrated imo. I also bought a 40A Kings dcdc thatndoes run @ 40A and doesnt seem to get hot, ie, a more efficient cct. The kings 40a is only $250. Better off running 2 of the kings. I run the 50A Redarc + 40A Kings dcdc together tomcharge my,batteries in less than 1hr.

[@MADBONE0]

$349 x4 Kings 100ah slimline Can have 4x linked up 🧐 Can only draw 100ah from the whole system though 😅 Hmm 🤔 2x 200ah kings Or just 1x 300ah If you have Induction what’s the minimum Ah do you think you would need to cook on induction cooker with 2400w and a 3000ah inverter

[@DesignedandBuilt]

I would personallly just buy 1 X 300AH with a big draw. 3000 watts to be safe but could probably get away with 2000 watts. I have seen my 2400 watt cooker drawing 200Amps quite regularly.

[@simonmaton]

Nice job but wires without wire numbers is not a professional installation! I’m not saying that it’s not a good installation, I’m just saying that trying to trace faults on a system without wire numbers is a nightmare!

[@weeds5636]

cooking on gas and coals sure does make a lot of cent$

[@DesignedandBuilt]

haha but maybe induction will pay off after 100 gas refills 🤣

[@DoneAndDustedFlooring]

I have a redarc 50 in one vehicle that charges at 48amp and a redarc 25 in another vehicle that charges at 26amp. Why is your so low?

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Honestly unsure, correctly specced wires the whole way, either faulty product or not enough voltage from the Alternator would be my guess.

[@DoneAndDustedFlooring]

@DesignedandBuilt is it a smart alternator and is the redarc hooked up to a ignition source?

[@nordic5490]

​@@DesignedandBuilti bought a Redarc 50a dcdc, but... after repeated testing on the bench and in my car, it over heats after 15mins, and throttles back to about 42A if not mounted in the airflow. I mounted a 80mm computer fan to it and it now runs @ 50A continous. Overrated imo. I also bought a 40A Kings dcdc that does run @ 40A and doesnt seem to get hot, ie, a more efficient cct. The kings 40a is only $250. Better off running 2 of the kings. I run the 50A Redarc + 40A Kings dcdc together to charge my 2x 120ah Kings LFP batteries in less than 1hr.

[@darryllspalding9680]

lots of bare ali there! go the gas

[@beach2bushaustralia]

Great vid mate and love the yota...! So my understanding of the vid is that you've spent $6123 but your system is still not efficient. My system in my 79 canopy is the Manager30 + 2 x Redvision screens + 200ah Invicta + redarc BCDC1250D + 2000watt Inverter + single induction cooktop + 200watt solar... + an external 200 watt solar blanket to help on those shitty days... This system cost me just under $13000 (not including the $ labour). I have a standard alternator and the redvision is set up so I can turn on the BCDC1250D when the engine is running to put blended charge of 30+50+ solar (10) = approximately on average - 70amps into my 200ah battery. Takes 2.5 to 3 hrs to go from 30% back to 100%... But it rarely gets lower than 50-60%... I'm running a 130L upright bushmans + 40L Engel as a freezer and regularly use my Travel Buddy 12V oven... We're travelling Australia fulltime and this system has not let me down. Redarc Aussie made, yes can be a little more expensive but I know it wont let me down. If you add the extras that you say you'll need to make your system more efficient, that will bring your spend up to around the $11500 mark... Not much difference in cost between systems. I can even use this system to charge my caravan battery system if need be... My recommendation for anyone looking a setup like this would be to down size the induction cooktop, and double your solar input. But as I said, great vid and guide for anyone looking at this type of 12V setup...👍👍👍

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Hi mate, the extras that I say I need will cost another $2000-$2500 and I will have more capacity and an ability to charge much faster off the engine. Solar is great if you have the roof space and if you are in the sun, but a lot of the time I'm parking under trees for shade and I don't want to lug a solar blanket around because unless you have an extra extra large one there is no way to generate close to enough power to sustain induction for a few weeks. Depends on what you're cooking though...

[@nordic5490]

You can build a decent 120ah + 80A dcdc + 3000w inverter for approx $1800. You will now have a setup that will cook, power a toaster and a kettle, and pretty much anything 240v. Your misso and kids will love you for this. Ditch the gas mate. My overnight power consumption, cooking + toaster + kettle several times + fridge is approx 80AH. Ie 1/4 of the capacity of my 240ah LFP batteries. I have 90A dcdc charging (50A Redarc + 40A Kings), and that 80ah takes less than 1hr of driving to fully recharge. I also own solar blankets that can produce 17A in full sun (measured by me) and thus can also recharge that 80ah in 5.7hrs in optimal conditions. We are very unlikely not to drive anywhere on any day, and if we did stay put, and it was heavily overcast, we still have several days of LFP battery capacity without using the solar blankets. Thus, I dont even take the solar blankets anymore, they really are unnecessary. Your tiny 25A dcdc is you limiting factor, the choke point. Buy a couple of cheap Kings 40A dcdc charge controllers. 80a of charging goodness will change your opinion. Kings 40A dcdc are very often $250 each onsale (as per today). Kings 120AH LFP are $400 each atm. Kings 3000w inverter is $250 atm. Add approx $300 for all your wiring + lugs + fuses. You will now have a setup that will cook, power a toaster and a kettle, and pretty much anything 240v. Your misso and kids will love you for this. Ditch the gas mate.

[@SaSaaVirus]

Doent need the tools mate Already have better ones, love the vids

[@christhomas4260]

Hey mate. What brand of usb out lets at 15:36 are they please

[@milesarcher9002]

35A out of your 50A charger? Somethings wrong there. I get 40A out of my 40A redarc charger

[@DesignedandBuilt]

40 amps out of a 50A charger. As I mentioned I don't understand how the black box works, but I have a theory that my 130A alternator could be close to the limit (especially with all the thermos I have on my build), and not able to provide 50A as a result. I see it sometimes but not for sustained periods of time.

[@milesarcher9002]

@@DesignedandBuilt interesting maybe get a clamp meter and measure your alternators output and the dcdc direct output ?

[@DK90VR]

You will not see your expected lifespan of a battery if you charge at more than 20% of the battery’s rating. So yeah induction is a waste of time. Unless you’ve got time to waste…

[@nordic5490]

Ditch the gas mate. Kings 40A dcdc are very often $250 each onsale (as per today). Kings 120AH LFP are $400 each atm. Kings 3000w inverter is $250 atm. Add approx $300 for all your wiring + lugs + fuses. You will now have a setup that will cook, power a toaster and a kettle, and pretty much anything 240v. Your misso and kids will love you for this. You also shouln't keep the gas bottle in you car. Where do you store it ? On the back of your car ? On the roof ? Or do you not care about your families safety and store it inside ? My overnight power consumption, cooking + toaster + kettle several times + fridge is approx 80AH. Ie 1/4 of the capacity of my 240ah LFP batteries. I have 90A dcdc charging (50A Redarc + 40A Kings), and that 80ah takes less than 1hr of driving to fully recharge. I also own solar blankets that can produce 17A in full sun (measured by me) and thus can also recharge that 80ah in 5.7hrs in optimal conditions. We are very unlikely not to drive anywhere on any day, and if we did stay put, and it was heavily overcast, we still have several days of LFP battery capacity without using the solar blankets. Thus, I dont even take the solar blankets anymore, they really are unnecessary.

[@DK90VR]

@@nordic5490 lol mate yes that very specific example looks like it suits you well. And yes my gas is stored under the tray thanks for your concern. I actually have a 12v setup capable of induction but I don’t use the car enough to keep it charged and when it’s at home it’s in a garage so no solar. But none of this is to my main original point that you will lose battery life if you are charging at a rate of more than 20% of the batteries capacity. So you cranking in all of those amps is shortening the life of your battery. Thanks for the pointless rant though but I still prefer to cook with gas.

[@user-cs5hd2vf6x]

240v side of things is illegal & fyi RCD’s r completely useless on an inverter!😬

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Not according to multiple sparkys, the people who are qualified to do the job!

[@caltaylor]

Or just run the worlds hottest stove and not worry about battery power😂

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Haha nah 😂

[@ausguy4385]

Poor reading of spec sheets 😂

[@southerndime333]

rattle rattle bang rattle

[@briandp9535]

Jobs'a'good'n

[@toolowgo]

Induction not a good idea for remote touring!

[@nickunw]

disagree. Recently toured the most remote AUS we could with 5 cars. One with induction was the car most used for cooking.

[@nickunw]

remote parking up at a campsite for several days, i'd agree.

[@robertwilson1827]

Why?

[@nickunw]

@@robertwilson1827 - We used the induction most of the time because it was a super easy setup. Flick the switch and you're cooking. Rather than having to get the gas out of the holder, setup the stove and hook it. cooking wasnt effected by wind. It'd brew our coffee quicker. Easier to clean. As we were touring each day batteries would charge up meaning free cooking. I actually thing for touring, induction is brilliant. Agree though. If you know you're going to be sat at one camp site for 3-4-5 days then induction wont work as it'll kill your battery

[@user-cs5hd2vf6x]

Base on all your recommendations on this video, I’m gonna say your not really qualified to be giving those recommendations!🙄😂

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Haha, thanks mate! Appreciate the honest feedback.

[@dgd05]

Sending a lot of arrogant vibes in your explanation there. Do you want a company like Safiery to chime in on pros and cons of your system let alone Redarc or Enerdrive? Heck there is one company’s product your using that kind of diminishes any credibility of what you’re saying straight away. Just explain the reasons why you didn’t do it or why it worked for you. That’s definitely not the people’s 12v system because heaps of people wouldn’t do it that way. It’s just the way it was done before some other systems were installed . Your legs are sore from carrying so much cash? Just makes you sound a bit try hard. Have an opinion is fine but you’re just alienating possible audiences and kind of makes it sound like you’re taking the piss out of anyone with a Redvision. But hey each to their own

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Hey mate, I completely disagree. I think those systems are completely unnecessary. They may be good for certain applications where you have a very complicated system, but for the most part something has been developed for a problem that didn’t exist. Relays and fuses do just fine and are a lot simpler and cheaper - that’s the point of my video.

[@LifeOverloading]

Induction stoves are a waste of money for camping always choose gas with a 3, 5 or 6 pound propane lithium battery are only good for charging equipment running lights and refrigerator.

[@DesignedandBuilt]

Completely disagree! Lithiums can definitely power induction very well!