Dream's Cheating Confession: Uncovering The Truth

The first 1,000 legends to use this link will get a 1 month free trial of Skillshare: skl.sh/karljobst06211
Recently, the Minecraft youtuber known as Dream confessed to 'accidentally' cheating in his Minecraft speedrun. In today's video we will try to find out if he is telling the truth, or if this is yet another lie.
Dream's full confession: web.archive.org/web/202105301...
Dream's apology: web.archive.org/web/202106021...
No clips in this video are credited to avoid any potential backlash or drama which I disapprove of. Not all of the clips included are wrong, I AGREE with some of them. I just included clips that I thought were really relevant to the video.
Support the channel on Patreon - / karljobst
Absolute Legend MERCH - streamlabs.com/karljobst/merch
Please follow me on the these platforms, it really helps!
Twitter: / karljobstgaming
Twitch: / karljobst
Discord: / discord
Music:
Lanius - FTL
Maian Tears - Perfect Dark
Lost Ship - FTL
Steady - Veritas
Mantis - FTL
Carrington Institute - Perfect Dark
Galaxy Map - Mass Effect
Deep Sea - Perfect Dark
Finale - Vice City

[@karljobst]

I worked really hard on this video. If you appreciate the effort I put into investigating these topics please support me by following me on twitter twitter.com/karljobstgaming and joining the discord discord.gg/EjDRvg7 No clips in this video are credited to avoid any potential backlash or drama which I disapprove of. Not all of the clips included are wrong, I AGREE with some of them. I just included clips that I thought were really relevant to the video. Looking forward to moving on and putting this entire saga to rest!

[@xMurdererr]

the video is finally out, cant wait to watch

[@AdeptusArbites]

Cheers Karl. Sneed and feed.

[@TheBluePhoenix008]

You're an absolute legend ;)

[@confusedperson3557]

Karl, you‘re an absolute legend!

[@bukitcengkeh1]

Cheers Mate

[@CriticalNobody]

The biggest question I have for this whole scandal is why did he have to tell us he was in a bathtub?

[@rogehmarbi]

Now to think of it

[@regann7227]

The real questions

[@drewdrinks3930]

Don't question it

[@andregon4366]

One word: Aliens

[@dash3995]

It makes him seem more sympathetic lmaooo

[@baloe48]

"You must forget everything you know about this topic" Way ahead of you

[@patsk8872]

Can't believe he tried to sell me a slipcover

[@bettyjane6684]

Lol

[@DerClaudius]

😂😂😂

[@Sorrelhas]

What topic?

[@ploppyjr2373]

@@Sorrelhas took me a second

[@ollympian_art]

17:46 that aged well, because turns out it wasn’t luck at all someone noticed, it was because MinecrAvenger was also a cheater and noticed Dream had increased his odds because *he* was doing the exact same thing.

[@a.k8185]

Kind-of hilarious.

[@rilmar2137]

Takes one to know one, innit

[@lwfawn]

Pot meets kettle.

[@Blackmourne1]

Man this is giving me flashbacks to WARZ when everyone was cheating with ESP and you could tell who was cheating because they would always LOS you to not get mowed down from 1 kilometer away. (atleast I told myself everyone was cheating because I was) Nobody thinks they are the bad guy.

[@silverthelegend1644]

The fact that the person who exposed Dream was a cheater himself says it all. Cheaters are the most likely people to know if something is wrong because they themselves are doing it. My guy looked at the drops and was like “hmm, this guy is getting as lucky as me when I’m using cheats? Something is wrong” 😂😂

[@VonDenevue]

I wonder if the person who realized that guy was a cheater will also turn out to be a cheater lol

[@silverthelegend1644]

@@VonDenevue at this point u never know lmao

[@railx2005]

@@VonDenevue probably lmao

[@masync183]

@@VonDenevue it's cheaters all the way down lmao

[@David-ud9ju]

@@masync183 Even Karl cheated in the past.

[@zakisista8468]

When that developer was asked to make a mod for content, they really nailed it...

[@anepicperson920]

Never said what type of content

[@diceman3219]

I mean, it's like being asked to make a pool and then you make a pool... the size of the mediterranean sea

[@eatit8262]

lol

[@jakejakedowntwo6613]

@@diceman3219 pool looks fine to me, boss

[@darkcat6530]

Yeah he did his job so well he not only made lots of content for dream but also a lot for other creators.

[@CarthusDojo]

This is the craziest amount of research poured into a single man cheating I've ever seen and I'm only 3 minutes into the video

[@MysteryGamingYoutube]

Ikr

[@jeremykothe2847]

you ain't seen nothing yet. the rabbit-hole continues

[@jeremykothe2847]

I'm 39m in and my head is spinning

[@marcobering3945]

It's all about the money, honey. This controversy is still popular, popular means clicks and views, and clicks and views mean cash in Karl's pocket. I won't say money is the sole reason Karl is still covering this, but it certainly isn't a reason to stop.

[@CarthusDojo]

@@marcobering3945 I'm not insulting him I'm impressed by his diligence and dedication to covering this properly. If he wanted "clicks & money" he would've made a video right when the admission happened, but he didn't and waited to cover it in-depth at the risk of covering something no longer relevant. A lot of integrity and dedication on display not greed.

[@vietnamgamer9490]

This has really changed my mind. I think the take that “he didn’t do it on purpose, but he’s a huge asshole” nails it very well.

[@aguyontheinternet8436]

true

[@alexanderhood8993]

Yeah it seem that he never intentionally cheated but still acted like a drama queen and a diva.

[@gamlaingabrielchere1755]

In order to be running a mod the mod has to be installed and activated on your game. This is.../not/ actually difficult to do. It's not difficult to check for either. It is very definitely not beyond Dream's technical ability. One of the basic rules of speedrunning is that you don't run mods. It's also completely trivial to rename mods so that a mod that is named 'completely innocent pov shader' is actually a cheat compilation. This is why it's a rule: There is no way the community can trust that any mod you have installed is /not/ a cheat. So you check for this before you start the run. And you provide the screenshots of your empty mods folder in addition to your video. Someone as accomplished as Dream not doing these things and going out of his way to not provide that info? Absolute lack of credibility. He knew he was cheating. He just didn't want anyone else to know that. He's also 'somewhat obnoxious' of course, it's a core component of his brand, but that has little to do with his cheating methods.

[@alexanderhood8993]

@@gamlaingabrielchere1755 but it wasn't a mod but a server pugin.

[@alexanderhood8993]

@@gamlaingabrielchere1755 apparently.

[@ryusdarling]

hasn’t been relevant for two years and this video is still a fucking banger. most objective one by far, it’s cool you actually tried reaching out to dream to hear his side and gather all the evidence he had

[@michaelooviera2123]

100 %. this was a very strange video for me. it didn't have the outcome i wished for in my low-level desires, but in my high-level desires, that is the desire to seek the truth, it had a perfect outcome. reverse porno.

[@oddball1336]

this is off-topic, but where is your profile picture from?

[@immolationzxc]

​@@oddball1336Jujutsu Kaisen probably. looks like Megumi Fushiguro

[@michaelooviera2123]

From a series of video ads for Lendo a company that compare loans. He suffers from a mental condition that makes him incapable of choosing between different alternatives. He always chooses the first option presented to him. @@oddball1336

[@lamproskostopoulos365]

Honestly this is the only video on this topic that should be watched (and of course the mod teams vid)

[@tekrunner987]

The main victim of this whole debacle appears to be Karl's faith in humanity.

[@darkcat6530]

I think everyone's faith in humanity decreased from this.

[@crispy-k]

He cheats himself... so no. He's part of it ;)

[@AscendedBeyond]

@@crispy-k ah the classic strong but vague accusation Let me bite What are you talking about bud?

[@reckapple5641]

@@crispy-k tinfoil hats have been scientifically proven to make you lose neurons y'know

[@jektim6825]

Underrated comment up there^^ Just summarizes everything in such a meta level in honestly frightening capacity.

[@Habaneri94]

"The best and worst part of learning and understanding statistics... is that the large majority of the world does not understand statistics, yet claim to." My teacher in statistics, last year

[@chucklebutt4470]

OMG, for real. Especially frustrating to me personally has been the Covid numbers. I won't go into it because I shout into the void of the internet too much already, but the efficacy and other stats have been so much better than predicted. I especially "loved" the video with the gold blocks representing the difference between Harvard Guy and the Minecraft Mod Team.

[@santaiscommunist2414]

Great teacher.

[@Habaneri94]

@@santaiscommunist2414 begone, Satan! We all know "Santa" is just the name u use when you try to trick us!

[@alexjustalexyt1144]

@@chucklebutt4470 honestly, knowing statistics should be absolutely considered as a MUST HAVE to even get your diploma in high school. Maybe not knowing how to exactly calculate but UNDERSTANDING the fundamentals, how it works, possible biases, and etc.

[@MinnesotaExpat]

I'm working toward my Black Belt in Lean Six Sigma and I often find the old adage true, "People use statistics the way a drunk uses a lamppost. For support, not illumination." I also can say that the paper Dream commissioned is shite, and shows the writer's unfamiliarity of the subject at hand.

[@Koselill]

Honestly I don't care if he cheated or not at this point. His attitude about the whole thing makes me roll my eyes and shake my head. A team of over 10 extremely dedicated minecraft speedrun moderators spent 2 months looking at every detail and crunching every statistic with extremely complicated math that no one on the internet corrects (and we all know the internet can never refuse such a temptation) and dream never even once thought "hmm something is really wrong here!". He hired someone, fed them data and when they came up with different numbers he didn't raise consern or ask for second opinions. No. Dream made a video smugly trying to debunk everything whilst sounding as arrogant as possible. Idc if he cheated or not. I know what kind of person he is now and I don't really want to be around those kinds of people :/ I hope Dream learns and becomes a better person. I'd like to see a legitimate speedrun with a humble and lovable Dream in the future.

[@TheAdvertisement]

I mean can you blame him? Guy is one of this quickest content creators to rise to KZbin fame and definitely didn't know how to handle controversy, on top of having ADHD, and is suddenly one day hit with claims he cheated when he has no real reason to believe he did because he knew he didn't enable any mods.

[@unwarym1190]

@@TheAdvertisement well nonetheless, he cheated. simple as that. edit: ignore my messages, I now realize that arguing about someone cheating in a timed run in a block game sounds stupid

[@TheAdvertisement]

@@unwarym1190 No not as simple at that, it was entirely on accident.

[@TheAdvertisement]

@@unwarym1190 ...because it's still cheating, just on accident. The speedrun was cheated, but Dream still made it clear in his apology that it was accidental.

[@TheAdvertisement]

@@unwarym1190 someone didn't watch the video an is pretending to be smart I see

[@SneedsterSpeedster]

Whether he cheated or not, he still knew his game was modified after a certain point and said nothing for months and months while letting his fans harrass those who were proven right in the end. Thats disgusting in my view.

[@mariosnz2884]

If I ever get murdered I want Karl to investigate it

[@ShauryaHallow]

Vouch

[@battlefields2mine]

Me too. I want to know the murderer's RNG chance of meet and choose me. And if he cheats I'll see him in hell.

[@TheOneEyedScholar-Official]

@@battlefields2mine smh bro the rng depends on where u spawn Especially if u spawn in Russia,your killer will definitely have a faster rng in the alleyways Maybe post 15 you'll get lucky

[@turbosquid1610]

Lol

[@noahblevins9569]

@@battlefields2mine Some alleys have over 100% chances of that "killer behind the dumpster" What you need is the game sense to know if the crackhead that just rolled the homeless dude is actually working with him.

[@Superspd]

"People have compared Dream to Billy Mitchell, but there are key differences: Billy Mitchell is weird." I died.

[@NoobNoobington]

@「 Deadpoppin 」 I mean, atleast he doesn't start giant lawsuits to people proving he cheated

[@oslo0323]

@「 Deadpoppin 」 nah he took normal pills

[@MemeMarine]

@@oslo0323 he threw those away

[@good-ishgamer5225]

@@oslo0323 the normal pills

[@koifish528]

@@MemeMarine his doctor gave him more normal pills

[@Darkfyyre]

i'm glad i clicked on this video. i kind of didn't want to dive in because well, it's the whole dream debacle, but this was incredibly enlightening from start to finish, and i feel as though i have a far more rounded out understanding of what happened. it's no longer the black/white thinking of "did he or didn't he cheat", there's tons of nuance i didn't even know existed, and i'm grateful you took the time to so thoroughly pick through the evidence to present us with the facts.

[@thesurvivalarchitect4122]

For context: in sport, if someone has illegal substances in their system they receive a ban, no matter what. A lot of cases of band are when the athlete is taking a supplement that contained the substance and they didn’t know. It is the athletes responsibility to know whether or not their supplements have banned substances. In speedrunning, it should be the case that the speerunner is responsible for ensuring they are not cheating.

[@legendarywiimaster]

This may sound stupid, and it probably is, but in the athlete situation, if someone injected steroids into you while you were sleeping, how would you tell? Like if someone changed your settings while you were offline

[@joaquincasascortes624]

​@@legendarywiimasterYou always take a test before entering a competition to check if you have or don't have steroids. As simple as that. You don't test AFTER you enter a competition, you do it BEFORE entering it. The same way applies to a speedrun.

[@legendarywiimaster]

@@joaquincasascortes624 well testing costs money and you also have to consider that you don’t test all the time

[@joaquincasascortes624]

@@legendarywiimaster Exactly. You don't test all the time, you only test when something important comes up. Therefore, you take tests before entering a competition, doing a speedrun, etc. And, in the case of speedruns, tests only takes a couple minutes, so there is literally no reason to not take them. It's your responsibility to be sure you never break the rules.

[@rilmar2137]

Hell, in MMA even using IVs for rehydration is forbidden (unless medically necessary, you need to apply for an exemption for those, though) because it helps mask some other prohibited substances

[@jordanbtucker]

"Don't tell Dream, but I managed to gain access to his emails." You almost had me there.

[@darkcat6530]

Imagine tough if he actually got it' the amount of power.

[@doodleshroom9101]

I know I’m probably being rlly stupid but where did he get this info?

[@darkcat6530]

@@doodleshroom9101 dream gave him

[@cryswhyle]

@@doodleshroom9101 I also ticked at this moment but Karl specified before that Dream gave him access to a lot of things. However I still believe this kind of "humor" is a bit misplaced for a video like that and could have been said differently to avoid confusion imo.

[@DevilboyScooby]

He had me until he said later that Dream had given him access XD

[@spartanseth7392]

Keemstar criticizing Dream for his fan base has got to be one of the most laughably hypocritical things on this entire platform

[@pubcle]

Keemstar's still around?

[@kw8196]

@@pubcle unfortunately

[@pinkraven4402]

Actually what's the deal with Keemstar? I actually don't know shit about the guy, why is he so hated? 🤔

[@wildfrog2000]

@@pinkraven4402 lookup content cop keemstar. All you need to know

[@nukclear2741]

@@pinkraven4402 plenty of videos.

[@Meriadockie]

I have played minecraft for 5 minutes and never heard of dream, but watched the entire thing because of your search for the truth and the way you conducted your research, this was brilliant!

[@bobaa4268]

you played 5 MINUTES and never heard of dream? That is a world record!!

[@thelegion.6100]

@@bobaa4268 I've been playing long before dream was conceived, before the combat update.

[@MinkSquared]

@@thelegion.6100 even now i dont really know who that guy is, all i heard is "he stages his videos" and this incident that happened a while back, lmao

[@sleekyissleepy]

I didn’t know who was Dream until last month, now I just turned an fan lol his videos are so good

[@bobaa4268]

@@thelegion.6100 Yea, cool.

[@stevechippendale8873]

Watching in December 2023 I am struck by how well Karl handled an objectively bizarre story. I mean, at the time, you had world-class mathematics + a mask-wearing, unnamed KZbinr + unidentified experts and developers. And I watched the whole hour-plus despite never playing Minecraft.

[@pacmonster066]

The mask wearing KZbinr was Dream, the person the video is about. This was before he did his face reveal, so he's hiding his identity as it's a live action interview.

[@_mark_3814]

The mathematics really is simple, simple enough that anyone with minimal Minecraft and binomial probability knowledge (just some algebra formula) to do a simple computation and realize it did not happen by chance. Though of course you can’t just give a 1 in big number, stat without using statistics to put it in perspective.

[@DarkViperAU]

Ant Venom’s section speaking on cycling mods out of folders, I couldn't help but reflect on my 7 copies of GTA 5 that I use for content creation; I press a single button to change which folder steam looks at. Patch 1.24, Patch 1.27, Chaos, Newest Patch, Modded, OHKO, and No Cutscene skip. Many of these look identical and you'd never know which one I was using once I was in the game except for one thing. The strategy of 'Save-warping' causes your game to crash if you have mods loaded. I have a done a handful of runs on my modded version, only to crash an hour in when I tried to save warp which alerted me to my mistake. I find your explanation for Dream’s behaviour and his modded-runs (that he inadvertently cheated) to make more sense than him intentionally cheating. My initial interest in the ‘Dream Cheating’ story was due to my reverence for the moderator’s efforts to determine his runs were cheated, and my first video was largely just expressing that. I am not a statistician, yet I read the report and felt I understood enough to believe it valid. When Dream’s report came out, I did not catch the errors caught by others. Speaking to the statisticians of the moderator’s report also helped me understand that I did not possess the level of understanding I believed. Given this revelation I questioned why I should have any confidence that Dream cheated. I concluded I only felt confidence due to lengths the moderators went to, Dream’s poor conduct, and a bias driven by a strong dislike of those who violate rules for their own gain (which Dream was now associated with). Now having competing statistical analyses and commentary of which I didn’t feel qualified to assess, I considered the foundation for my belief that he cheated quite poor. When he contacted me asking to be interviewed, I was confused. My videos were not exactly kind to him. If he was going to seek out a softball interview, why would he pick me? I didn’t exactly have the reputation for being a push-over. I sat down to watched and read everything again to devise what I felt were the questions that would best enable me to get information that had not yet been presented publically. I made over 30 and I questioned whether I had inadvertently set out to confirm my original position perhaps out of bias. It is worth noting, I read many of Dream’s different social media posts while making these questions and I did see a difference between Dream’s earlier comments and later comments which, at the time, I attributed to damage control rather than growth as a person. So I had the interview with Dream. While he didn’t always give a “perfect” answer, Dream always seemed to have an answer. He didn’t hesitate. The answer didn’t come across as scripted, but they also didn’t come across as a person struggling to think of an excuse. He came across as a likeable person, something even those who accused him of cheating continued to maintain. Almost 3 hours we were there, he didn’t complain. It only ended when I ran out of questions and it seemed like he would have been fine to be there for the rest of time, I was usually the one who said we had to move on from a question because he just wanted to plead his case as much as possible. 20% of viewers made it 15 minutes in, 10% 1 hour, 5% all the way. Few cared what he had to say, and few were interested why I changed my mind even while being perfectly fine mocking me for it. The interview made me unsure of what to think of Dream, and being unable to believe myself qualified to feel confident in the statistics, I ended the conversation by saying something like “I am unsure, but if I had a gun to my head I wouldn’t say you cheated”. This is an expression to mean you would only make a decision if you were forced under penalty of death given your lack of confidence. It is after all “innocent until proven guilty” and I didn’t feel firm enough to confirm guilt. After the interview, many videos were released breaking down the papers and what they actually assessed and how. This made me feel more confident that Dream cheated, as I had regained my trust in the statistics, but now I felt this trust was justified. I now had to invent reasons for myself as to how all of Dreams actions (which Karl listed in the video) made sense for a cheater to do. None of the possible explanations seemed to fit well, but the facts of the run being cheated seemed undeniable so I settled on Dream hating RNG and just wanted to speed things up to get a run he deserved. If I had to choose between that explanation and the one given in this video, that Dream unknowingly cheated, the second explanation seems to fit better with the totality of Dreams actions.

[@spaceghost8886]

based Viper posting an essay

[@drewdrinks3930]

Your interview was one the biggest things in Dream's favor in terms of intent For someone to confidently lie for 2 hours, and to it so well that he could convince someone else that he didn't cheat, idk, felt too unlikely

[@mudjumper]

“I didn’t know anything about the situation at hand, but the serial liar sounded really convincing” And you wonder why you get mocked? lmao

[@Kimikachu22]

@@drewdrinks3930 YOOOO Drew! Hello! (it's FreeMiliu) fancy seeing you here you shit posting dweeb.

[@XemawthEvo2]

Well said Matt. The various extremely conflicting circumstances created a created an air of doubt no matter where one looked. Dream succeded at galvanizing a terrible image of himself through the totality of his actions at face value. Everything put together looked awful. Then on the other side of the coin, your interview showed the human side of Dream. His responses were filled with passion, and what may well have been sincerity. An immensely stark contrast from the packaged situation as a whole. The only logical conclusion is exactly the route that you took, acknowledging that you were not an expert and your human instincts were telling you something was off. Extremely commendable. Also, very interesting to note the timing of the interview with you. He was essentially in his damage control phase, and was around or just before the time he began walking his conviction back. Theoretically, you were speaking to a man who could have easily passed a lie detector on a subject. While at the same time being completely demonstrably guilty. What a fascinating thought.

[@Geosquare8128]

rewatched this and the part about how sincere dream seemed really hit home. he was so convicted and convincing at times the cognitive dissonance literally felt like gaslighting (considering i knew the invalidity of his run and was unfortunately assuming malintent) i know the team tried to do everything as best as we could but i wish the whole thing went better

[@UniNumberOne]

I'm sorry about everything that happened on twitter and yeah I agree.

[@zobr0s77]

I lub you geospaore

[@CherryZ]

don't be hard on yourself, you and dream were both frustrated because of all this. I'm glad everyone knows what really went down now

[@shahidrana111]

geosquare u r cool

[@chimitrash2966]

U good dude

[@TheBooBomber609]

Looking back on this a year later, while Dream might not have cheated on purpose, he’s still definitely at fault for his behavior. Yes, Dream had no reason to think his game could’ve been modded. However, he knew that he’d been paying somebody to modify Minecraft in the same way he had been accused of, so he should’ve asked his developer if they had modified the file to any extent around the time where the accused cheating happened. And letting several months fly by before coming out with the truth all while the ones who were correct in their accusations were getting harassed daily by his fans is horrible. Not to mention his knee-jerk reaction of a response to the accusations only served to further incriminate himself.

[@XavionofThera]

Yeah, but being a bit stupid and irresponsible is not a big deal. I don't give a sh-t. Being an actively malicious cheater is.

[@gonzalovargasochoa4993]

As a diablo 2 player who hate myself, play solo and hunt for the rarest runes. If they started dropping at a rate I never see either for myself or somebody else. I would go and see first on the forums or the patch notes if they changed the drop rate or check if there's isn't any kind of client editor. It would be more obvious to someone that speedruns diablo or at least is a pro at doing runs. If you were frustrated for the drop rate as Dream expressed on the forums and then you get an unusual amount of drops, I would check if Mojang changed something and then if something changed with my client. What I'm trying to say is that if somebody pointed out that my drop rate is irregular to an item that's so rare, I would agree and find out why it was so high.

[@mukymakazuki2218]

@@gonzalovargasochoa4993 dream cheated on purpose. You forget a Mod when you Play on Stream and want to speedrun? BS.

[@TronicX]

He did ask the developer. They lied to him.

[@kuroser353]

​@@mukymakazuki2218 imagine not watching the video you're commenting under

[@itayhamri3063]

Dream is like the criminals in Ace Attorney when they change up their entire testimony

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

Dream posted it while in the bathtub because people tend to have more creative comebacks when bathing.

[@rishabhshah104]

AHH second reply :P

[@DarkPeter]

@@rishabhshah104 nerd

[@antonyv3095]

4th

[@kylevogelgesang9996]

Comebacks or comeshots????

[@Isabstoppoppingbloons]

U again

[@Bisqwit]

”I am the one person who knows more than everyone else on the planet. In this video we will cover _everything.”_ Very grandiose!

[@masteranton5660]

But boy, did he deliver on that message

[@kyovanno]

Humble brag 😂

[@MrRyrukMain]

That statement got me hooked

[@clocked0]

@@masteranton5660 He tried to. He got some of the technical stuff wrong but I don't blame him for that

[@BIGMIKEREC]

I enjoyed that statement immensely, and it hooked me immediately. When someone makes a ballsy-ass statement like that, there's a part of you that says, "Oh ho, I wanna see if he can back it up!" The hyperbole was warranted, based on how much information was presented. Obviously exaggeration, but when you're telling a story, you gotta squeeze that juice, son!

[@theminingassassin16]

I love your videos. You tackle the situations from every angle possible to get the most clear image you can, as opposed to other videos from people who prefer to only look at the situation from one side. Well done.

[@Ponkotsu67]

I really appreciate channels like these that do an actual deep dive and have journalistic integrity. A lot of commentary youtubers are so quick to make a video, they don't give as much care about uncovering what actually happens in these kind of situations.

[@VeritasGames]

This video has all of the marks of a genuine, honest, unbiased, and truth-seeking endeavor. It's not omitting shit that doesn't fit with a narrative, it's not trying to smoothen out all the rough edges of the story... The fact that my opinion has gone back and forth a dozen times about all of the folks involved while I watched this video is, to me, indicative of Karl really getting to the heart of a story like this. Real life is fucking messy and complicated, but everyone wants a succinct explanation to satisfy their hunger for a simple, tweetable narrative. I have a feeling that during this investigation Karl probably had all of the realizations and back-and-forths I just had while watching this video. I found myself thinking multiple times throughout this video, "is Karl trying to convince me this dude cheated or he's innocent??" but I think the truth is he's trying to give us all the facts, as he was able to collect them. THAT is exactly the sort of content we need, give us ALL of the evidence so we can come to our own conclusions, but the saddest part of that is the masses aren't equipped to properly absorb, analyze, and be skeptical of a raw dump of unbiased facts and evidence. Good work Karl, as usual!

[@zapzap1485]

I cannot agree more

[@eric-jt4ij]

agreed.

[@menpower1]

This video is certainly head and shoulders over every other video on this topic. Yet, I feel that there was quite a bit of unnecessary conjecture that detracted from Karl's objectivity. The entire portion regarding Dream's deleted mod folder sounded unconvincing to me. It's not that I believe Dream is lying, it's that Karl's analysis did not seem supported by the evidence he laid before us - there were so many alternative explanations. Of course this is a YT video, not a court submission, so I'm still quite satisfied; I simply had some critiques.

[@georgesracingcar7701]

@menpower1 There were only so many Discord messages and emails to look at, so I guess that’s why that section was not as strong in the others. But that does also mean the previous explanation/consensus about that situation could also be untrue. Whatever is the truth, there were many lies spread in this controversy, and this video has the least of them, from what I’ve seen.

[@georgesracingcar7701]

Although I do agree his first video on this topic was more objective.

[@capabartz7380]

“Billy Mitchell is weird, and he appears weird.” True

[@youuuuuuuuuuutube]

that part was hilarious

[@ZSpieg]

Billy blocked me on Twitter lmao

[@hastur8487]

I'm dead lol

[@TheRedRaven_]

I like how Karl says it in such a professional format like it's a key detail. Well, I suppose it is a key detail, lol.

[@dew9103]

you mean Milly Bitchell and Rodd Togers?

[@johnbowersox738]

Thank you for taking such a difficult and heated topic and addressing it in a far more objective way than I would have thought possible. I apologize for the dissertation but as someone who loves watching streamers but has no particular feelings toward Dreams either one way or another, this was my introduction to him. While I originally thought that your objections were more tailored to add believability to their authenticity as opposed to actually being genuine, the areas of your criticism and seemingly objective weighing of factors both for and against your own original suppositions was very well thought out and I felt showed an evolved opinion. Thank you for taking so much time and effort to shed light on a topic that I feel most people would most likely be quick to make assumptions based on hearsay or out of a general dislike of cheating in general. I feel that you have done a masterful job of actually giving people enough information to form real , constructive opinions of Dream whether they be positive or negative. Again, thank you for giving us enough information to create informed opinions as opposed to just spreading around drama and hate.

[@dekuneki9129]

I think that finding out I cheated without knowing it at the time, is actually scarier than doing it intentionally. I would honestly panic and do something stupid for sure.

[@HexisVonSpade]

Not cheating at a game, but i've had that kind of moment of "oh frick i fucked up... WHAT NOW!? " and it really can get out of hand really fast if you double-down even once.

[@ItsTartkie]

This ^

[@PhilippeCarphin]

@@HexisVonSpade Yeah, once you double down once it becomes so hard to go back and the fear of loss that he must have had would surely make it hard for even the most open-minded person to refrain from doubling down.

[@pyro111100]

​@phil10300 Not just that, just the fact that you're getting accused when you're completely confident you didn't can really wreck your mental health. Just taking this case and putting it into an easier real world case would be going into a grocery store, getting your regular stuff, paying, and then when you get home the cops come knocking on your door because somehow a 80 inch 4K TV made its way into your trunk without your knowledge. I'd be confused as hell and rightly assume that it's some huge mistake or malicious attack on me.

[@Joshua_From_Wii_Sports]

fr and the Snowboard are the best bro in all sports resort in this country that is a grown up and kisses to all the people that have come back from a family trip

[@thetayz72]

This speedrun getting more cross examination than a murder trial

[@iglidor]

Well if things like this goes unchecked, it can kill the entire scene

[@bukitcengkeh1]

Than the Nuremberg Trials

[@galacticshrimpenterprise6100]

To be fair, the speed run community specializes in deep diving on video games + technique so it isn’t super surprising that this video was analyzed, speed runs get specific enough attention that cheating is less likely to go unquestioned

[@theblaze5530]

First time in the speedrun community? Man are they big brained

[@BluerayIsPog]

@@weakspirit_ Ah, the mods must have requested for an updated analysis report. Should have seen that one coming

[@Geosquare8128]

very based. this needed to be made ty

[@kimotina5123]

Karl is always the most based

[@CuriousNeon]

Based

[@snipermonkey7575]

Hello mineceaft speedrun moderator

[@dexnacorn7807]

redpill and based?

[@sproutgaming]

Hello

[@AncientHydraGaming]

Coming here a year later and being reminded that MinecrAvenger, a now exposed prolific cheater (possibly the worst offender of all time in Minecraft), was the one who initially blew everything up with analysis of drop rates.

[@ennui9745]

I mean it makes perfect sense that a prolific cheater could identify when drop rates have been increased.

[@jenispizz2556]

Honestly, Dream's lies in the face of his accusations make it so hard for me to believe he had no idea that he was cheating. If he was a smart cheater, he would have definitely acted differently, but I wonder if it's possible he knew he was cheating and it was like one of those scary dread inducing things that haunt you where you know you're fucking up, but your anxiety prevents you from giving it any attention. Kinda like when people get horrible cavities and stuff and just keep vibing instead of dealing with it.

[@JennaEmbers]

This came to mind for me as well. Karl said that it’s understandable that no one realized Dream was cheating, which I get. Cheaters fly under the radar all the time because as Karl often says in his videos, hindsight is 20/20. But I don’t think the same applies for Dream. I think it’s far more likely he figured out the drop rate could have been adjusted because he commissioned the mod. Everyone else watching wouldn’t have been privy to that information. But I can totally see him brushing that possibility away because frankly, it fixed the 2 things he was most frustrated with. That being said, I still think that is even less likely than him knowing out right. But - I of course am not privy to every detail and there are people out there who understand this stuff more than I do. Dream seems like a cool person, and I can see why a lot of people are coming to his defense. There’s just still way too many pieces that aren’t adding up to me. But I want to believe him, I wish I did, and I will continue to remain open.

[@christianlueder9306]

"...unless, of course, that person is me." What an absolute legend.

[@castafiorept7309]

What an absolute power move from Karl

[@Bydey]

This was a legendary comment. I smiled soo hard.

[@Not_Aran8276]

Should make a Reddit r/karljobst and people upload memes about "what an absolute legend"

[@aav56]

And the best part is that he's actually justified justified in saying that. Mans made a FULL LENGTH documentary about Minecraft drama lmao

[@JiuWei_Mic]

Timestamp plz?

[@maggiesand8726]

"There's no doubt Dream is skilled at what he does" *don't use this as a segue for skillshare please don't use this as a segue for skillshare* "If you want to learn a new skill-" *NOOOOOOOOO* Great vid tho

[@50Steaks68]

Segway*

[@braydenhalter6427]

@@50Steaks68 I am pretty sure that Segway is a vehicle and segue is when you move from one topic to the next

[@jianhaunicholastan8349]

Sometimes I hate ytber do this, just straight forward pls

[@SirCanuckelhead]

@@50Steaks68 You basically did to yourself as the creator of the segway did trying to correct the spelling.

[@50Steaks68]

@@SirCanuckelhead I didn't know there were 2 Segways

[@byeguyssry]

The most confusing part is that Dream is seemingly intentionally trying to make himself look even more guilty. 44:00 is a great example

[@darkknight7040]

wow!! very well done!! im glad you made this video its hard in current times to remain unbiased and to not judge someone until all the information comes out i wish there where more people like yourself and a couple other youtubers i sub to, who really do the actual "journalism" or research on a specific incident before making their mind up even though you dont go into detail, its obvious your opinion of Dream has changed since your last video maybe not believing him "completely" innocent but still, and this speaks worlds for the kind of person you are Karl!! and with this, what i actually believe to be the most complete story behind Dreams cheating i also believe like you do, i dont think he "knew" he had cheated

[@manthespoon]

3:20 Karl: You DO NOT KNOW THE FULL STORY Me watching the video a 2nd time: I am 4 parallel universes ahead of you

[@ShreyBrawlStars]

Oddly enough I was thinking of this

[@wherethewatermeetstheshade]

3:49 he's like did he do it intentionally 🛑🛑🛑🛑🍑🛑🛑🛑🛑🛑 ITS HIS COMPUTER HE JERKS OFF AT IT HE WATCHES KZbin ON IT HE DOWNLOADS VIDEOS AND UPLOADS VIDEOS ON IT HE PROGRAMS HIS KEYBOARD AND HIS MOUSE ON IT HE LISTENS TO MUSIC ON IT HE PROBABLY EVEN EATS AT ITS SCREEN BEFORE IT. OH AND HE DIDNT KNOW HE DOWNLOADED A MOD. THIS IS SOME HORSE 💩 LOL THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE WHOD SLAP THE HELL OUTTA THIS NO FACE FRUITY BEHIND THE MASK BROMINE FOR GEORGE

[@Aftermath-News]

H a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a h a

[@shadoweschatolog5912]

uhm, actually technically you'e only one parellel universe ahead of him msh

[@TalkingRacoon922]

@@shadoweschatolog5912 Unless you have 4 brains working independently of each other.

[@bluebobelephant]

If I ever get sued I want Karl as my lawyer

[@akkunichinose3426]

I agree.

[@shinesunarjo3638]

Karl jacobs is what a law major gamer does when he doesnt gor a job in a firm

[@xvonder3513]

Same

[@inniinniinni]

​@The Ginger Fox I discovered this channel by watching other vids on dream's speedruns being fake and I shit you not, I was CONFUSED AF when I saw Karl Jobst make a vid on dream cheating as I accidentally misread as Karl Jacobs too. Karl (Jacobs) has admitted that he is a dream fan and seeing him make a vid on dream cheating, made me pause for a moment and wonder if dream had any real friends in the Minecraft community or not.

[@DILLY_DING]

@@ILoveEvadingTax He was joking, all the emails and private conversations were provided by dream as he said earlier in the video.

[@MoonlarkSpirits]

Here's a comment that started an argument

[@cormacb2326]

Yeah. But didn't he admit in his first defense video or at least on twitter he handled the situation immaturely?

[@MoonlarkSpirits]

@@cormacb2326 He did I think, but still, calling in his apology, he called the mods immature

[@Hello_World_not_taken]

I think he was being an idiot, not an asshole

[@Creativitybias]

Oh come on, he's a speedrunner, not a role model.

[@Hello_World_not_taken]

@@Creativitybias someone can be both, but Dream isnt one to be both

[@ShadowOfOurHearts]

Thank you for being such a good and honest investigator. Its very clear that despite previous knowledge and biases you're able to put aside your thoughts and feelings to objectively present your findings then make conclusions off of them. You have a very nice and calming voice and Its evident how much work you put into these. I'm beyond floored, thank you

[@sleazymeezy]

When you simp for a content creator and they ignore you lol

[@flynn3559]

BYEE YOU CAN DONATE MONEY IN COMMENTS NOW??

[@Joshua_From_Wii_Sports]

same bro I was in my office last weekend so you could go out for a bit if you would be available and if so when you would the time to buy it from and please do so so we can gain weight

[@RickSanchez-mp8ou]

​content creators put a lot of time into their work for us to watch for free. There's nothing wrong with donating them a few bucks as a thank you.

[@ElPolloLoco7689]

Bro there's more salt in that reply section than in the dead sea

[@Kosmicd12]

very properly done video, nice work!

[@phoenixjasin4563]

Love your speed runs Kosmic, keep up the great work👍🏼

[@PINO1101]

TRUE LULW

[@juxluxsr]

Can I have an autograph

[@Wombattlr]

*Cosmic

[@Sir_Isaac_Newton_]

I edited my comment

[@KaitlynBurnellMath]

"People can still talk about whatever they like, but you as a viewer should never take it seriously, and never ever assume that the person you are watching has any idea what they are talking about. Unless of course that person is me." ~Karl Jobst

[@LividCreature]

Sarcasm or nah?

[@AFabledHeroDG]

@@LividCreature the way he handled this video says all you need to know

[@RGC_animation]

BIASED (But in a good way)

[@eljestLiv]

this is why i love karl

[@sacrijuts7265]

What I love about this quote is that you can take it both literally and sarcastically, and still come to the conclusion that it's right

[@andeggbreaks]

Coming back to this and am still very impressed with your empathy and objectivity. Always grateful for your content and input.

[@adalon378]

This research and explanation was super interesting! In the end, Dream's problem was not if he did or did not cheat... it was that he refused to hear anyone questioning him, no matter how reasonable they sounded, even after the time spent by experts. Dream's long-lasting hot-headed reaction, and sticking with it, is why he will be labeled forever as a cheater despite not technically being one, on purpose.

[@adalon378]

Dream often has this attitude, which is likely behind the fact that his fanbase is reduced to fans that agree with him in any situation, and have often been accused of bullying others (including other creators) in Dream's name. This is still his attitude, and that will always be his obstacle, unless he learns to be humble and listen to others. It is a level of maturity that he has not achieved, and maybe due to his quick rise in fame due to the creativity and talent of the many smaller streamers working together in his private server that brought it to the spotlight. He also grew up in some degree of isolation at home, first bc of struggling with ADHD in school, second during the Corona lockdown. All of this is bound to affect how a child/teenager grows up :/ In the end... It never should have been about all of these explanations, which few people will even understand (or have time to), anyway. It was always only about his attitude, unfortunately...

[@TheDomander]

This is by far the most entertaining first world problem ive ever been into. Thanks karl, thanks internet

[@MarMaxGaming]

Hahah so true

[@MrGreg242]

Not so much a first world problem, but a modern world problem

[@TheRedRaven_]

lol

[@MattTheMan2708]

@oof This man deadass out here saying shit like terrorism, famine and the pandemic are "good things".

[@EarthboundX]

@oof Fan of dead kids huh?

[@bacnpiggeh486]

not gonna lie, when karl started talking about hacking dreams email i thought he was going to segue into a goddamn ad for an internet protection company

[@cygnusedge6847]

I won’t lie, hacking into other people’s private email is pretty shady. Thats why you need ExpressVPN!!! Protect your data from criminals, hackers, and data harvesters! 🤣

[@zernox6271]

That part was a joke since he already said in the beginning that he got touch with him and asked for the emails

[@TransRoofKorean]

I'll allow Internet Historian's ads and no one else's

[@ziyle5238]

Sme

[@atx_wind1826]

@@TransRoofKorean allow oversimplified's ads as well

[@PrinceTalonSabre]

Learning most, if not all, of the details in this situation has brought me some peace; not because I cared about anyone or anything to do with the 'controversy,' but because Dream's response reminded me of my brother. He takes the truth, and twists it to make it sound better for himself. If someone else is even remotely close to suggesting they are wrong, or did something wrong, they act as if the world is against them, and use that truth twisting skill to (try to) turn the world back on them. This Dream deal is old news at this point, but I just wanted to let you know that you really nailed the objective, 3rd-party perspective in this, and subsequently helped me overcome a barrier I felt with my brother's defensive, deflective, petty, and pointless pointless yapping. I hate feeling like I'm walking on eggshells with my brother, but I just can't come to hate him. We are all human, and make mistakes. Old habits are hard to shake. While the behavior suggests malicious intent, it often is not. In fact, I might go out on a limb and say it comes from a spoiled upbringing that felt cut short when all the love you have seems to turn toward someone else. I am in fact the second child in our family. We'd fight a lot as kids, and I didn't understand what he was so angry about half of the time. Even now, I can't figure out if he's just *looking* for things to complain about in general or not 😂 All that said, when he's not focusing on every minute detail in life that's oddly upsetting, which feels less frequent than it is, we do have understanding, informative, interesting, fun, and ultimately pointless conversations with no stress. I know that was a long-winded wall of text, that nobody on the internet needed to hear. I don't expect anyone to care, not even Karl. I just wanted to say, on the off chance you see this, Karl, thanks for doing this kind of work. I may never truly understand why people do anything, especially when it blows up in their face. However i feel one step closer to understanding idiots like that for better or worse. Really helps when trying to understand people. Aspergers makes that harder for me, after all 😅 Also, your investigative journalism is typically pretty thorough, so at this point, I think you're a trustworthy source for information. 😊

[@charliekelly735]

43:30 If Dream didn't mean any harm, why did he make a video falsely "debunking" the claims of him modifying the game if he later came out and said the game was modified?

[@Icedonot]

Because at the time he thought he was innocent

[@json8104]

"Billy Mitchell is weird, and always appeared weird. While Dream appears normal." Dream must have been taking his normal pills

[@uncleho1945]

If dream is normal then America is one messed up place.

[@JiuWei_Mic]

lmfaooooooo

[@lukasruston8618]

@@uncleho1945 Isn't he from Florida where the stereotype is that crazy stuff happens all the time there? ...Yeah that would explain it actually XD

[@NatetheNintendofan]

@@uncleho1945 dream I hate him even more cuzzy surpass DanTDM Subs

[@SteinCodes]

Well I am not quite sure, but for the first time I really didn't understand how conclusions in this video were made especially the Maths part, like I have maths in university, and probability was kinda close to what I minored in. Then there was the part about developer not telling, which is probably the most acceptable part, BUT he deleted the mods folder himself.................. I mean this was never an innocent mistake, the question is how liable was Dream in the scenario. Considering, destruction of pertinent evidence, lying to prosecution, trying to shift blame, admitting to lying and crime, pleading ignorance and most of all inciting violent youtube and twitter under-age hate mob.... Yeah I can assume in the American court systems he would be sentenced to the needle by now(especially Florida).......... Just saying....

[@kevinhe5643]

So to sum it up. Dream probably didn’t intentionally cheat but his attempts to ‘debunk’ and rebuke the allegations were horrible and very suspicious.

[@bocahdongo7769]

"All the cheese holes are line up." That's the thing i learned from Aircraft Accident Investigation, but sums this up nicely.

[@KayOScode]

Doing speedruns on a server is already a bad idea, im still not convinced it was an accident. Dream probably asked karl to do this video because his video was the most popular

[@zg8999]

@@KayOScode dude it wasn't on a server,get your fucking facts right

[@enolopanr9820]

@@zg8999 It still doesn’t make sense, why would you not at least consider the fact that you might have been using a modified version of the game while using it in many of your videos, while it was statistically proven that you were for a WHOLE YEAR. Why did dream delete his files. If he hadn’t deleted his files, Karl’s presumption of his developer causing the issue would have had actual evidence. Remember, all of this story from dream and his developer came from a year after. Dream would have had plenty of time to delete emails and old messages to make himself look better. He already deleted videos and tweets that made him look bad in the past, this would be nothing different. I would have 100% believed dream if all of this came up at the start of the controversy. But why the hell did it take a year.

[@ElfieMC]

@@enolopanr9820 He did consider it, did you even watch the video? He decompiled all his mod folders, but by that time the mod was an updated version without the drop rate changes. He also did mention to the moderators, when he gave them the list of mods that might have been in the folder (he had to give a list since he'd deleted the folder) and he did mention the content mod to them, but noted that there was nothing in the content mod that would modify the drop rates. In summary, he definitely considered the possibility thoroughly, but had reason to think that the mods were biased and that he hadn't cheated. Hindsight's 20/20, it's extremely naive/ignorant to just say "oh, he should have considered it more" after the fact. He did as much as he could, given that information was being withheld from him by his dev- he decompiled stuff, told them about the content mod and what he thought would/wouldn't be affected IF it was in use, etc. Considering it more beyond that would seem unreasonable at that time, though obv not in hindsight.

[@arciks11]

I would have easier time believing this was accidental if the program that they used to cheat didn't instantly get deleted from both Dream's computer and from the guy's that made it.

[@Zero-ef4sc]

Then you have a pretty easy time believing it, it seems, cuz that's not what happened.

[@VentrexTheXVth]

​@@Zero-ef4scdid you watch the vid?

[@Zero-ef4sc]

@@VentrexTheXVth did you?

[@kameronmyles2013]

​​@@Zero-ef4sc40:01 "3-I did not delete any of the evidance, and i was doing everything the mods asked me too, and i actually had one of the mods come on later to come and confirm that" -Dream "Dream certainly DID delete evidance, and saying that he didnt is another lie." -Karl Jobst. Doesnt mention the guy who made it i dont think, but dream definetly did. Hope this clears up any confusion!

[@Zero-ef4sc]

@@kameronmyles2013 then you're replying to the wrong person. Tell that to the idiots claiming it got deleted from the guy who made it's folder "instantly".

[@mephistopheles4910]

Dream deleting his mod folder out of frustration does sound like something a guilty person would do when caught. If I recall, Dream has ADHD, like me, which means that he also deals with emotional regulation issues meaning he doesn't deal with frustration well which can cause meltdowns. When I was younger, I had real bad meltdowns when I couldn't understand math homework. My initial response to being frustrated was to crumple up the evidence, throw it away, and then hide and cry. A lot of that was due to be being embarrassed and attempting to hide my shame from others. Since then, I've learned a lot of coping mechanisms which helps me to deal with frustration differently and I recognize that hiding my errors wasn't helping me to grow as a person. Reading Dream say he deleted everything out of frustration, shows me that Dream didn't know how to navigate this situation when confronted and decided to get rid of the evidence out of shame and embarrassment. Not to mention that he could have taken his computer to any computer repair store where they could have recovered that mod file (depending on how long the file was deleted) so he could submit it. But Dream wasn't thinking clearly, he was caught doing something bad and his first response was to get rid of it and hide. His admission of cheating was also odd. Instead of saying, "I cheated through my speedrun using mods. That was wrong, and I apologize." Dream rage quits speedrunning and tried to make himself a victim by saying "he unknowingly played using mods". Part of growing up is realizing your own short comings. Not noticing mods were on before speedrunning was still Dream's responsibility. He could have had other people check behind him to vouch his own work so it's not acceptable to say he unknowingly played with mods. The phrasing implies Dream sees himself as an innocent party in this situation. I don't have any strong feelings toward Dream. I have noticed how he handles himself in situations is underdeveloped. He has gotten significantly better here recently, which I will applaud, but I understand why people perceived him as a manipulative liar. His inability to deal with stressful circumstances and defaulting to framing himself as a victim to avoid frustration does look manipulative and deceptive.

[@sabler1]

Bruh, watching this was like watching a Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney play through

[@Lelmao33]

Speedrun Turnabout

[@TailsGuy72]

@@Lelmao33 no No, Turnabout Speedrun

[@GigaChad-tv7xl]

The Dream of a Turnabout Edgeworth: OBJECTION! That world record is outdated, your honor.

[@Lelmao33]

@@GigaChad-tv7xl Can't wait for cross examination on The Astrophysicist

[@iZetto1]

@@Lelmao33 nah, cross examination of developer is currently needed because it's the developer who gave the key testimony

[@xcloudx01alt]

This is like watching a murder documentary. Thrilling from start to end. Bravo

[@thesuccessfulone]

Surely you weren't baited into that association with the Law&Order sound and font.

[@thesuperchoober]

Jim Can't Swim is diversifying his content a fair bit

[@pt4m]

0:43 The man speaks the truth! He absolutely didnt know that his game was modified! KLARA DID IT!!!!!!

[@TheAdvertisement]

??? who the heck is Klara

[@espurrseyes42]

@@TheAdvertisement Some girl got caught cheating in a shooter and blamed her friend (assuming this person actually existed) Clara. And Clara just became a meme. If anyone gets caught using cheats, it's always Clara's fault. She put those cheats on there without anyone knowing.

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

"I have never seen somebody like that." I have and I've studied what is commonly referred to as sociopathy ever since. To be clear up front, sociopath is not a legit term. That's a layman's term that gets bandied around like it's a scientific term, but it really isn't. What we call sociopathy is really a set of behaviors that aren't actually associated with any specific mental disorder, though quite a few of them tick the narcissistic personality disorder. However, NPD does not require some of the traits we associate with sociopathy to get diagnosed. I bring this up because it is important to point out this difference. A person can behave like a sociopath without actually having a diagnosable mental illness. Some people are just really practiced liars and firmly divorce the rest of the world from the things they care about. There's nothing, if I may use a loaded and inaccurate term for the sake of brevity, "wrong" with them, they're just assholes. But let me say, in the case of people who are like this, there are some common tells. 1. People like this are arrogant as all hell. They often can't just deny that they did anything wrong, they often then go on to pose hypothetical situations wherein what they are accused of isn't wrong anyway, because they seem have a compulsive need to justify themselves, even when they know no one else will accept their justification. 2. They also feel the need to do things that reveal their lies within what they do for the personal satisfaction of knowing they're so charismatic and so smart that they can do things in plain sight and get away with it. Often times, they're such polished liars that even if you notice the discrepancies, you dismiss the in the moment because the individual is so charming that you just can't believe it means anything. However, once it comes out and you see them for what they are, all the little tells come back and you realize how bad they were all along. Once revealed, a sociopath's lies seem so obvious in retrospect that you often hate yourself for being so stupid as to believe them. This I know from experience, as I once overlooked the obvious tells that a close friend was being abused behind closed doors for at least two whole years before everything came out. It hurts to think back on. 3. There's another one that often comes up when such people run businesses. They often mock their clients by naming their company after the opposite thing they're doing. For example,, the company that claimed to be giving people free and easy access to stock trading, even though they were selling their client's data to the big stock traders they were pretending to fight against named themselves "Robin Hood", while Donald Trump named his social media platform "Truth Social." 4. These people usually deny to their dying breath in the face of irrefutable evidence that they did anything wrong. They never confess and you cannot drag the truth out of them. It is really something else to watch them do this. To be clear, this is just my studies and observations. They are not scientific and have nothing to do with the diagnosis of any mental disorder. They're just things I've noticed. The absence of them also does not prove anything either. But since you asked, that's my position. I didn't watch enough of Dream's content before this to tell a lot, so you'll have to draw your own conclusions and decide for yourself if what I present here is valid. 1. Did Dream try to defend what he was being accused of as well as deny that he did it? This one, from what's presented, seems to be no. This doesn't mean anything because, while I say this is usually what they do, it's not universal, just shockingly common. No, Dream doesn't appear to defend what he's being accused of, just deny that he did it. At least up front. 2. Did he have obvious lies before now that become obvious with the benefit of hindsight? I don't watch enough of Dream's content to be sure and am not sure if it would necessarily show up in his content anyway, so this point may be useless. 3. Is Dream's company (or youtube channel) based on something that's the opposite of what he's doing? Not in any way that I can see. Dream is a pretty abstract concept that can mean a lot of things, but none of them connect to the type of deception going on here? 4. Is he still refusing to acknowledge it? No, it seems he did eventually come clean even if it took him months. So, since it's come up, from my limited knowledge of Dream and my admittedly unscientific observations of what is not an accepted mental disorder, is he a sociopath? I'm gonna say no. I'll go a step further and say he doesn't strike me as NPD either, but I don't know his private life and that's where most of the symptoms would reveal themselves. Also, I'm not a psychologist - just someone who dropped out of the psychology program after two years and therefore has some basic foundational knowledge of how it works - so I'm not qualified to diagnose anything. But I'm fairly certain a real psychologist would agree with my reading. Do I think he intentionally cheated? My answer is that I don't care anymore. I only barely cared to begin with. I'm not a speedrunner, so I don''t consider myself as having the right to form a strong opinion of the matter. The mods evidence is clear, he's admitted it, the speedrun is removed, he's not attempting to speedrun anymore. The situation seems pretty resolved and I don't see why I should care now. So, why am I leaving a lengthy comment more than a year after the fact? Because I think we can all do with a bit more perspective. I think it's a real problem that people insist that other people form opinions about things beyond their scope of knowledge, interest, and authority. Dream is a guy who plays games and uploads videos of doing so to youtube. He's not running for public office, he's not running a major financial corporation, he doesn't even have a lot of influence over any particular thing that matters. I think it's okay not for some people not to care, so can we please stop blowing things out of proportion? We probably made the situation worse by doing so. Also, to be clear, I think the quality of this video speaks well of Karl. It's level headed, makes attempts to be as objective as possible (bias is impossible to do away with, but an effort is being made), does not seek to defame or accuse anyone involved, and is also pretty well organized in its presentation. I feel like if I ever needed it, I could trust him to do a good job on something like this, provided it was within his area of expertise. Which this seems to be for all I know. But I'm not an expert speedrunning, so I don't think I'd know even if he was completely talking out his ass. I'm simply making this assumption based on the way he describes his approach and how he presents the information. Well done there. Would that we all could do this well when observing and reporting controversy.

[@TheAdvertisement]

This is an amazingly intuitive response, not wonder Karl hearted it. As someone who's not like, obsessed with Dream, but does consistently watch his content and has seen enough of his speedrun content and social media history to provide some insight, I can answer some questions. 1. Dream never defended that cheating should be perfectly fine. However he has claimed that speedrunning that specific version of Minecraft is stupid multiple times and hates the RNG, even going as far as to say he was going to stop speedrunning 1.16 (which he did after the drama). It's not quite the same and to me I don't think it lines up enough with the scandal in hindsight to actually mean anything, but make of it what you will. 2. Obvious lies. Yes and no. As Karl says in the video, Dream doesn't straight up lie, but he often exaggerates and tells half truths. Did he say any blatant lies? There only appear to be a couple possible examples, such as the math he was given on his luck stats being way off, or that the mods were using bias in the speedruns they picked out to determine his luck. It's questionable, and they're mixed amidst other lies that are just exaggerating things the mods actually did wrong, as well as misinformation that it appears Dream genuinely believed from the statistician he hired. Basically, some of the lies may be obvious in hindsight, but they sound more like lies from a desperate man rather than a sociopath. And I think your paragraph about people being made to think they need to have opinions over something they don't fully understand is very true. In the end it doesn't matter that much, and if we don't really know the answer, why attack people for it?

[@henryolsen8232]

I don’t have a thoughtful insight to add sadly, but this is a great comment! Also, look out for comments of “I’m not reading that” probably on the way

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

@@henryolsen8232 I get that a lot. I'm very wordy.

[@henryolsen8232]

@@cheezemonkeyeater That can be a good thing, especially in this context

[@xelith6157]

@ your point about sociopathy: You mentioned NPD, which is a cluster-B disorder with some overlap, then said that there is no mental disorder associated with psychopathy and sociopathy, failing to mention the existence of the other three cluster-B types. I'm not particularly sure why NPD is the one that stood out to you. While there's some debate surrounding the layman terms in question, they are not only strongly associated, but also very often used as synonyms or subsets of ASPD. Short for antisocial personality disorder, this cluster-B disorder is recognized by the DSM-V and is a valid, existing diagnosis. Disclaimer: I am not a psychologist either; just someone who's been self-educating in these topics for as long as I can remember, as I have a cluster-B disorder (among many others) myself.

[@Kris_Toffer]

A lot of us really need to learn to say "I don't know enough about this. I'm gonna let people who actually do deal with this."

[@runterranger7398]

most people covering the drama dont care about being correct, its done for the views meaning its gonna happen no matter what.

[@GaussianEntity]

I mean Dream technically could have followed that advice lol. Hiring an astrophysicist (who has to do some additional legwork because there's a lot to cover with statistics, especially if it's not quite your specialized field) definitely didn't seem like a good application of the quote above.

[@USMCjkm]

@@GaussianEntity This. Asking people to “trust the experts” when Dream could’ve ended all this bullshit in a second. Literally just saying… “oh damn, I use a mod in content creation and my dev accidentally changed shit my bad” instead of WAAA MINECRAFT MODS ARE JEALOUS OF HOW GOOD I AM. Don’t act like people were wrong to call out his manipulative bullshit when they saw it.

[@AliensAreNoobs]

That’s the stance I took after seeing dream’s response because like... I have no idea about statistics. I can’t look over the data and sway one way or the other. If I listened to someone else, it would just be their words against dreams. Or more accurately, against dream’s physicist. I figured I’d wait until people came to a concrete consensus but by that point I stopped caring.

[@hmich176]

Will. Never. Happen. Look all around, and you'll see the blantant disregard of experts in most discourse as the right to free expression.

[@the_senate8050]

Karl just casually dropping a full length documentary, absolute legend.

[@NikosGinsan]

The Senate will decide that

[@vanillawaffle7303]

They senate will decide your fate

[@marcinszlachetka1227]

LMAO I just realized this is almost King of Kong lenght. Good shit.

[@ETBrooD]

This is more than a documentary, it's a whole investigation of a crime! This is Death Note levels of fascinating!

[@arazseyfinezhad5444]

In the name of the gelactic empire of senate Dream you are arrested

[@jonesy279]

I’m such an old man that when I heard you say “a team of some of the best experts in minecraft speedrunning” I figured it was a room full of hyper 12-year-olds.

[@Kermit_E_Frog]

You can be a professional at anything really

[@anonymouscausethatshowirol828]

While you were right, unfortunately that was over a decade ago. Now they’re college graduates

[@Adelaide_Cuthbert]

Either 12 year olds or neck beards with beer bellies. 🤷‍♀️

[@frezzingaces]

Feel like this whole saga was a giant, long-winded Hanlon's razor moment. "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[@jasonbaird1645]

I don't know how old Dream is, but he seems pretty young. Back when I was his age, I was a skilled healer in vanilla World of Warcraft. I didn't have 14 million followers by any stretch of the imagination, but I was in demand on my server because good endgame healers are always in demand. Looking back on how I conducted myself back then, it's pretty embarrassing. I was young, full of myself, and I won't say stupid but definitely unwise. Now that I'm pushing 40, I'm very thankful I didn't have a huge audience during the WoW phase of my life because I almost certainly would have made a complete arse of myself.

[@pyro111100]

@@jasonbaird1645 Yep, inflated egos can make even the best of people act like an ass at some point, it's just human nature. It makes perfect sense viewing it from how anyone would. "They're accusing me of cheating? No way, I know I didn't cheat, therefore I didn't cheat." then when it comes out that it was a complete certainty that he did, the stages of denial kick in, "No, there's no way I cheated. I'm the one who played the game, I know I didn't cheat, there's just no way" until he's forced to accept that somehow without his knowledge he did in fact cheat. It would be like if the top athlete in a sport was found to be pumping every steroid known to man, but he had no idea because his doctor injected it into him while he slept. To him these are just a huge mob of people trying to tear him down for no logical reason other than they want him to fail.

[@jacobshirley3457]

@@jasonbaird1645 Very early twenties, iirc.

[@Professor_Brie]

@@jasonbaird1645 yes, I think he was 21 at the time of this scandal. I also think it's notable that he also is known to have ADHD, and it has been shown that people with ADHD have delayed brain development and thus tend to mature slower than their peers. It also seems to me that Dream does not do much to treat his ADHD. I think these factors greatly contributed to his poor handling of the situation.

[@TomCruz54321]

I never liked that saying. Sure it can apply to SOME cases, but there are definitely MANY cases where deception is the main goal, ie: scams, MLM, time shares, etc.

[@lowbirds90]

'The Developer' sounds like a character from The Matrix

[@Echo-qk7vc]

Lmao

[@alexg9601]

There is a "Developer", kind of, in Matrix Reloaded, the guy in the room with all the TV's that reflect Neo's thoughts

[@LoverOnTheLineMajora]

To me it sounds like the ultimate uberboss for Terraria Calamity or something.

[@USMCjkm]

The perfect fall guy

[@alfredvonschlieffen6813]

@@alexg9601 He's already called the Architect though.

[@Shivaxi]

As someone who did and does understand the whole "client side" vs "server side" and the difference between actual mods and server plugins, I am SO happy to see this video. Karl, you always call us absolute legends, but I think it's my turn to call YOU one. I was so disappointed to see uneducated people just running with a complete misunderstanding regarding things like that, jumping on the hate train and calling it a day. This is so enlightening to see, so glad to see all the facts laid out properly, the amount of work and research you did is incredible, and I hope this will change some people's opinions on the whole thing, on Dream, and perhaps we'll all learn a lesson or two about jumping to conclusions before having all the facts, knowing the full story, and forming opinions based on ignorance and misinformation.

[@beetrootking139]

Hey Shivaxi

[@rusty7448]

"perhaps we'll all learn a lesson or two about jumping to conclusions before having all the facts" - I'm sorry, my friend, but history of mankind stands firmly against your hopes.

[@chuck_duck]

@@rusty7448 yea I wish we could’ve learned this from ProJared.

[@cyanphoenix1414]

Ah, the man who created Minecraft hell itself. Good to see you man

[@jbr1537]

Wait I thought this was extremely patronizing. 99% of gamers don't understand the difference between server side and client side? I'm fine with the critique that people misunderstood it, but saying "I'm the unique 1% that understands what a server is" made me cringe.

[@CarlosKey]

17:45 "Honestly it was probably sheer luck that someone ended up being crazy enough to study his streams and collate the data, and it wasn't until several days later that the speedrunner MinecrAvenger posted his findings." Now that we have the added subplot of MinecrAvenger ALSO being a cheater, there is definitely enough sheer drama and intrigue in this insane story for Jobst to go back and make a full 90 minute documentary on the full thing from start to finish. In my honest opinion, this has been one of the most interesting stories of cheaters in the history of competitive sports... seems as though nothing in life is a coincidence.

[@TheAdvertisement]

Cheaters calling out cheaters only to get called out all at once, god the rabbit hole only goes deeper.

[@aramizadi410]

Good god Karl, I really love the way you approach debates/videos/facts. You're very good at breaking things down to facts, and then also providing your own opinion (or like your best objective take). The balance of logic and self-aware intuition is 100p why I come back to watch your videos. This vid kinda the magnum opus for you so far IMO, at least from what I've seen. I hope more people think this rationally and logically about things.

[@Sweetlittlehugs]

Do I play minecraft? No Do I know who dream is? No Did I just listen for over an hour about whether or not he purposely cheated? Yes

[@erensahbaz457]

*Mindcraft*

[@Vethhorn]

@@erensahbaz457 ikr

[@privateerliew5177]

Its winecraft

[@yourewallsareveryconvenien8292]

@@erensahbaz457 I mean, you have to use your head a lil to play it.

[@Griffo4]

Ah yes, my favorite game: MINDCRAFT

[@parkerarts]

this is a prime example of why in legal proceedings people use lawyers and don't usually defend themselves. knowing how to convey information truthfully (and explain that information well) is a very important skill when it comes to controversy.

[@beowulf4669]

Very interesting point. It also helps that the lawyer isn’t emotionally involved in the situation

[@givemeyoureggs456]

@@beowulf4669 And the lawyer's paycheck is dependant so they have motive

[@aubreyh1930]

@@HarryChafercook only thing I can think of in a pretty short amount of time is that they’re close enough for dream to be willing to forgive them

[@lolgenitor7065]

“MY BIDEO GAMES ARE LIKE THE LEGAL SYSTEM!1!1!11”

[@jeudiballsl5518]

@@givemeyoureggs456 and thats a reason why their is two lawyers

[@nikhilanand2613]

The biggest red flag for me is that Dream didn't check if the mod was active when asked before going through everything he did. He spent so much time and money trying to discredit the moderators only to turn around and say "Oops, guess I did cheat by accident."

[@nightmarechevalier2529]

I mean, to be fair he was adamant that the mod wasn't and couldn't be active and later became frustrated. Adamantly frustrated people are as often their own worst enemies than their worst opposition.

[@andresgonzalez5139]

Amazing done video man. Honestly a fresh breath of air to see someone do a review of a contavertal topic and cover it with such responsibility and well made to me. Specially no biased or negligent/lazy claims with a ton of arrogance and intitlement like some YTs and or Podcast hosts that don’t even notice how they come across. 👍🏽

[@NINI-xc6my]

"Forget every other video you have seen about this topic" Okay!i will "We all know that Dreams games were modified .." who the hell is dream?

[@redholm]

To be fair. I barely knew Dream existed before the drama to begin with XD So it really was. Who the F is dream?

[@webbiez]

PFT_

[@giantflamingrabbitmonster8124]

Thank you internet person, you gave me a real life chuckle. Kudos! :D

[@brettrossi034]

@@redholm lmfao me too dude. I never even knew who this dream guy was. I mean shit... I never knew anything about what Minecraft was either 😂

[@K1LL3Rm0nkay]

@@redholm that was the joke

[@Dylan-ko8rg]

Karl Jobst is the only person I trust about “drama” like this

[@ianmeana904]

I don't know about this one chief...

[@Veritas__1]

@@ianmeana904 yes

[@normalguy7877]

@@ianmeana904 why?

[@Dylan-ko8rg]

@@ianmeana904 why?

[@lunausagi8495]

@@ianmeana904 why?

[@easypete7988]

Fantastic video. I am a new subscriber, and have absolutely loved all of the videos I have watched. You offer such a clear, and reasonable opinion on the subject matter, a refreshing change from many commentators.

[@JasonLihani]

Make more long videos, please. I've just learned how nice these are to fall asleep to. You're great to listen to and the Perfect Dark music apparently does it for me. I love your content. I just used it to sleep after I actually watched it. ❤

[@Kaineeee]

Keemstar calling out dream for having a toxic fanbase is the most hypocritical thing ever

[@Gabe_-pw7xv]

I don't remember Keem fans dox and cancel other people just because they hate Keem. In the past? Yes. Now? I don't think so

[@TheOnlyDamnIcon]

@@Gabe_-pw7xv i dont think you remember the h3h3 situation

[@yallidiotsneedtodrinksomew2937]

I mean, he's not wrong too, lol

[@Gabe_-pw7xv]

@@TheOnlyDamnIcon the h3h3 situation? what are you talking about? keem fans never attack h3h3 in the situation

[@TheOnlyDamnIcon]

@@Gabe_-pw7xv Bro no way ur not joking. Twitter was a battle field of slurs and doxxing after the content cops.

[@testsubjectlizzy]

Finally someone who addresses the mod/plugin differences, that is something that as a mod maker annoys me about the other vids

[@billy6678]

Username checks out.

[@Torbius]

Anyone else understand the difference between server side and client side mods to some extent because of playing modded terraria with friends, and understanding if you were hosting a server with some client side mods, the client side mods weren't needed by the other players?

[@milic5068]

@@Torbius a ton of people played modded Minecraft too, some minecraft mods have 100M+ downloads, it's not like minecraft modding is a niche topic either

[@Tigof_]

I didn't read the response because when i finally found out about it, the pastebin got deleted, even ik the difference, a mod is something you use in your own worlds and it's downloaded onto your computer while server side plugins is basically what every non vanilla server, like hypixel have in the server

[@luke-san7733]

@@Torbius I don't know anything regarding terraria, but as someone who understands modding and modded other games, mods that bring visual changes to the base game are optional. And like plugins some mods only change how the server runs things like world generation as well as entity behavior and thus if it only changes how the server does things, then there is no need for connecting clients to have it installed as well. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

[@andrewharmony]

This video did convince me that Dream very likely didn't know he cheated, but I wouldn't classify this video as unbiased. It is interesting that Dream is given so much grace about not knowing he cheated, but when other people obviously don't know as much information as Karl does, instead of giving them the same grace, they are considered to be lying. Also, in academia, if you cheat or plagiarize, whether intentional or by accident, it doesn't matter and you can still get kicked out.

[@TheAdvertisement]

Not really sure why you're comparing speedrunning to academia.

[@nightowl548]

@@TheAdvertisementSpeedrunning is treated as an important and somewhat official ‘sport’, so it somewhat relates to academia and falsifying results.

[@redjed100]

Karl has opinions on how people should be responsible with their platforms that are, in my opinion, more than a little loftier than they should be, basically that spreading lies from liars is complicity in those lies catching on. This is evident in his videos on Todd Rogers’s many lies about his “Dragster” score and his initial video about Heritage Auctions/WATA Games as well. That being said, he applies the same standards to Dream as he did to the various KZbin commentator channels, so that alleviates a lot of my misgivings about that bias.

[@sldarwin5615]

because karl went to the effort of waiting and hearing all sides of the arguement before posting this video 2 years after the fact, when everyone else jumped on the bandwagon and continued reiterating lies without fact checking them

[@turtlelore2]

His concern is how most people, famous or not, will read a couple sentences on a situation and immediately regurgitate that as undeniable fact to whoever happens to see their videos or comments. Even worse is when these same people will attempt to dive deep into the situation as if they suddenly became experts in the subject matter. Karl attempts to learn as much as he can whenever he reports on events. He may get stuff wrong but at least he tries. Most other people won't try at all aside from a sentence or two from another unreliable source. Dream is given some grace in this situation because he's the victim and Karl feels like his actions are understandable regardless if those actions were correct. Note the fact that Karl explicitly states multiple times that Dream is still the bad guy here. Most other people won't be the victim in the same events that they report on.

[@singhmp]

Innocent or not, Dream handled the situation poorly. He should have been open about his developer since the beginning, but whatever, It's nice to see he admitted at the end

[@Kitusser]

Looking at things from the perspective of hindsight, and in your comfortable armchair isn't really helpful. We shouldn't assume that people will act in the most rational and logical way, we also need to consider that he thought he was innocent and thought he was being falsely accused. Nobody likes being falsely accused and it could lead to emotional responses/actions. The moderators also left out key information in the DM's between themselves and Dream which likely would've frustrated him and caused him to make hasty decisions.

[@DanielFerreira-ez8qd]

​@@Kitusser It's funny, because a lot of people held that opinion AS IT WAS HAPPENING. How is that hindsight? People were there, from day 1, saying the exact same things. They just got validated harder as time went on.

[@Kitusser]

@@DanielFerreira-ez8qd So people were making assumptions with no information at all? I really don't see why that's a good thing.

[@DanielFerreira-ez8qd]

@@Kitusser you'd think with people constantly mentioning how poorly the situation was handled that, after 6 months, he would be able to stomach it and say "I've handled the situation poorly"? Which is the one thing he couldn't really do with a straight face.

[@Kitusser]

@@DanielFerreira-ez8qd Why would he? He was falsely accused in his own eyes for the majority of the situation. You simply cannot expect Dream to have acted perfectly and completely rationally throughout the whole situation. Tell me why he should listen to what people were saying, when they were falsely accusing him the whole time? God people put people on such a pedestal and expect them to be saints. Always something to complain about when you forget Dream is a human just like you.

[@rayswarnau3868]

>people don’t know what they are talking about >shows a picture of Ethan Klein pure kino

[@Crowborn]

Cinematic mastermind Karl does it again

[@davidabest7195]

Oy vey

[@Isaax]

@@davidabest7195 lol

[@harrybuhse8622]

Lmaaoo

[@garypinholster1962]

I was wondering how far id have to scroll to see this comment.

[@paul_warner]

I've seen a lot of internet drama in my days and this is the most honest and realistic way I've seen someone with a big platform treat someone else with a big platform, EVER. "He cheated and he's entirely to blame for it, but it doesn't seem intentional and he's not a bad guy and should be allowed to make amends, and we should be mindful of how taxing it is to have to fight hundreds of lies even when you're not fighting for your innocence. He's a liar and a jackass but it's really because he's immature, not malicious." No one ever puts out such a nuanced take, honestly mad respect to Karl Jobst for doing it and putting this much work into it. You are one of the best investigative journalists out there tbh. Edit: a lot of people in the replies need to lighten up lmao. Dream isn't a psychopathic killer who needs to be "PuNiShEd fOr HiS cRiMeS", no one is trying to give him a free pass on this, and y'all aren't doing justice to anyone by refusing to treat him like a human. It really seems like you're the malicious and hateful ones, willfully obtuse and holding on to an indefensible hatred just to be part of a thing. The proper response to Dream's toxic stans is not to be equally toxic. At this point, any drama that continues is just being manufactured by trolls.

[@fort809]

This is the best summary of my opinions on Dream I’ve seen. He’s a liar and a jackass and his lias have seriously hurt the well-being of a lot of people, but it seems like he genuinely didn’t know the consequences of his actions until after the fact

[@ToyFreddyGaming1987]

At this point "dream bad" jokes have become the "minecraft good fortnight bad" of 2021 atleast to me.

[@Gonzas97]

The real bad people are the ones who did their best to hurt other people. Dream stills being the one to blame for all the following actions, and its late to fix things, but again, dream is not a bad person as far as i can understand.

[@voodoo1094]

@@abakella Well he did intentionally misrepresent and omit facts to get his fan base riled up. So while it seems entirely possible that he did not intentionally cheat, the way he behaved in the aftermath does not show him in a good light from my point of view. Because yes he did in fact create this mess.

[@paul_warner]

@@voodoo1094 a man who believes he is innocent will not take kindly to what he thinks are false accusations. Can you honestly say that if your character were being publicly trashed and you didn't think you deserved it, that you wouldn't have a strong reaction and maybe even want vengeance? If Dream had turned out to be innocent, I would say he had every right to be angry and react in anger, even though someone with such a big platform should be more mature and careful. The problem boils down to the original negligence of him not making sure that he wasn't cheating in the first place.

[@magicalmysteryollie]

This all really is a great lesson about the importance of things like objectivity, evidence, proper investigation, considering all possibilities, skepticism, humility, reserving judgment, knowing what you're talking about and not jumping to conclusions.

[@dansnell5774]

27:33 Dream may have not used Photoexcitation to hire the professor, but you showed us in his emails that he was aware of the existence of the website, since the professor explicitly mentioned it. So he lied about not knowing about the website

[@HexisVonSpade]

@Edward Lee well, "bending the truth" /lh/t/ For example he could have taken the truth that "he hadn't heard of the website until the scholar brought it up" and put it in the context that we received in Dream's response.

[@karljobst]

If you read his message that shown on screen, he said he didn't know about the website 'until later'. Dream did not lie about not knowing about the company after he found out.

[@filipedias7284]

​@@karljobst27:19 wasn't it literally, according to yourself, one of the professor's terms for taking the assignment that Dream used said consulting company?

[@sergeantguy4404]

Ironic, by lying to defend himself, dream was ultimately his biggest attacker

[@ineffecient8243]

"It's not the crime, it's the coverup"

[@thelegostarwarsf7916]

How does it feel to have a cheap knock off?

[@lolgenitor7065]

“By defending yourself, you are bad. I’m so smart.”

[@niemampomyslunanickno]

He outsmarted himself

[@hulkmt]

He almost never lied, that's the point of the video, instead he tends to twist the truth.

[@Golden-ek2ku]

"If he's actually innocent, then he did a damn good job seeming like the guiltiest person on the planet."

[@Suope]

That's exactly why I don't believe Dream, in my opinion his actions just don't make sense if he's innocent

[@emerald3616]

@@Suope That's why I believe Dream, the actions Karl Jacobs listed in his conclusion don't make sense if he's guilty and a supposed "master manipulator".

[@lilamaddox210]

@@Suope kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJbQeaSLpsijf5o Here's an excellent video that portrays how people act in scenarios when they're innocent. Dream pretty much behaved exactly like Justin Kendall. His actions do make sense when you look at it from an unbiased perspective.

[@gamongames]

@@emerald3616 also, he just sounds dumb sometimes. some of his truthtwisting can easily be seen as him confusing things together or just misunderstanding them entirely. I'll always consider the possibility that people can be dumb and mess up before I consider they might be genius psychopath manipulators

[@darktheories1758]

@@emerald3616 that's the opposite of logic

[@TheNoviceProspect]

Hey m8, what a brilliant effort to actually tell it how it is, as much as we might not agree with Dreams handling of the situation afterwards, I have always thought the run wasn't cheated on purpose Well done Karl

[@ggwp638BC]

It's hard to think he was fully unaware of the situation. I can understand he doing those speedruns while unaware about the drop rates, but after it blew over it's simply unreasonable to think he wouldn't immediately connect it to some mod in his game. He is a content creator, constantly shuffling around mods, even commissioned a mod for his team. Hindsight is 2020, and I wouldn't say it's fair to expect him to have a clean install of minecraft each time he wants to do a speedrun, but let me put it like this: - If you're into PC building, your PC is working fine, you swap your GPU, use it for a few weeks and suddenly your PC starts to show weird behavior, even if not graphical related one of the first things that will pop in your head is the GPU. Maybe it got a bad driver, maybe Windows Updated fucked it up, maybe it shorted, maybe it's not plugged correctly or has some specific bug with another component. Of course this might not be the top of your list of possibilities, but it would be willful ignorance to not even consider it. "oh but the mods had nothing to do with drop rates as far as he was aware" Sure, but still. He wasn't adding a texture pack, there mods helping with pretty low level stuff such as loading times. In a game as complex as this, it's very easy for any piece of code to have unexpected bugs, specially if you're also running a mod commissioned by your and that only your team runs and bug testing is fairly limited. Hey, maybe the mod or any of the other mods in it messes up the load order on some data and now a bunch of things have different drop rates. It's definitely not out of the realm of possibility. The fact that Dream didn't even entertain this possibility, at least to me, tells me either he is completely unaware about anything computer related, which clearly isn't the case, or he thought about this possibility, likely at an early stage, and decided to play dumb to see if he can beat the allegations.

[@TheAdvertisement]

It's very likely he was simply in denial lol, didn't want to admit he was wrong.

[@zionj104]

Did you watch the first fifteen minutes of the video? Mod =/= plugin. Sure it was similar behavior but Dream had very good reason to not even consider the possibility because they're completely different. He had no reason to think that his dev coded the same behavior into the singleplayer client-side mod.

[@ggwp638BC]

@@zionj104 I think YOU didn't watch the video. First, DREAM denied everything. When he was caught and couldn't deny anymore, he claimed it was a PLUGIN. Plugins are server sided and so wouldn't affect his single player run. Then it came to light that he also had a MOD he commissioned and only he and his team used. This mod did alter drop rates but he was unaware, supposedly. The original intentional with the mod was adding some content creation tools and help with loading times. Even if Dream did not know about this hidden feature, it is just too much to claim that he, who changes mods all the time and paid for tailor made ones, would not even entertain the possibility that a mod in his folder caused the issue.

[@TheAdvertisement]

@@ggwp638BC Yeah no, you did not watch the video. That's just not how the timeline went at all. He said nothing about it being a plugin, in fact he never even admitted the run was cheated, until he released that pastebin response- which was literally months after the controversy was over and Dream was getting pretty much no heat for it anymore. He wasn't "caught" at all.

[@ggwp638BC]

@@TheAdvertisement k dude

[@Imponstersyndrome]

“I’m the one person who knows everything”. Oh god he is turning into Thanos

[@fyfysdfsdyfdsfysdfsd]

@@ExtremeMan10 it's a gamble: Karl uses his reputation to gain more attention, but i agree that it's not quite objective to say "i'm the only one that knows everything about it" and "you should not trust any other source than me" (i probably exaggerated the second quote unintentionally). But to be fair the amount of reasearch is really far beyond any other videos on that topic, that i have seen...

[@uniquename6925]

@@fyfysdfsdyfdsfysdfsd I think it was a joke...

[@batrongordeg]

@@fyfysdfsdyfdsfysdfsd that is justified cuz of he relly knows more than anybody.

[@batrongordeg]

@@ExtremeMan10 ... F you really. He was making good content, even if he was controversial. Blaming ezscape and darkviper was.stupid but it is still a big loss.

[@southplaq2887]

@@verraque H3 deserves the dunking. Charlie's clip was included to show a legitimate concern that people had and Karl used it to segway into why nobody ever knew the astrophysicist's name. If you read Karl's pinned comment the you would know that not all clips included in the video were clips that Karl disagreed with.

[@beautyisontheinside]

Dream paid the anonymous developer to take the blame

[@arbiter6859]

This may or may not be your best video, I haven't watched a lot of your videos but this is an amazing video

[@TruthBehindTheLies]

This is by far the best investigation into the Dream cheating controversy 10 fold. Amazing work, Karl!

[@aarondonnelly6887]

Ratio

[@ShauryaHallow]

What's up checkmark

[@bigmannn2443]

@@aarondonnelly6887 tf you mean ratio

[@georgesracingcar7701]

Your channel name is very fitting

[@e7nn]

@@bigmannn2443 its a twitter thing

[@Foxymus]

Keemstar at the end judging people for harassment is so ironic it's sickening

[@faranocks]

Yea, what kinda sicko would harass somebody, even unintentionally - keemstar (probably)

[@psyclo4113]

Ik keemstar narrates and cancels so many people without hesitation

[@pullimau8555]

@@billy6678 jesus you dont need to like him, but going on his kids? makes you pathetic as fuck, imagine calling him asshole but going on family, you arent better lmfao

[@melissahenderlight2588]

@@pullimau8555 He wasn't attacking his children. He shamed him for not caring about his kids.

[@solsol9515]

He is correct on this case

[@euanmacleod3738]

A fair few arguments here come from the position of saying 'this isn't what a clever cheater would do...' when we see time and time again that cheaters are caught for stupid things they could have avoided in advance if they were doing the smartest job of cheating. Edit: Also, all of this hinges on the testimony of one other guy confirming that Dream did not know about the mod, who's anonymity means we have no way of knowing what his connection is to Dream, nor his potential motivation for helping him (except that we know he benefited financially from their relationship). We also know here that, despite all the effort made to supply Karl Jobst with all his data to clear his name, they could not provide any correspondence about the mod. We know the game was modded, we know Dream's response was terrible and dishonest, embracing the truth after everyone else had, and we know he fed numbers to his expert source that would have cleared his name. We know that other cheats double and triple down forever once caught, as do many cheaters, because every successive lie invests them further into needing to upkeep the lies or else be totally ruined. We are also required, in this telling, to believe that during all his content making with this mod, Dream never twigged that his luck was modified - not just during this week of streaming, but during the entire time he was doing his other content production with this mod. For someone so deeply embedded in the scene, who played the game so much, and devoted so much head space to reflecting on the game, I genuinely find this incredibly weak. Maybe I'm just too old and jaded now, but my opinion remains very much that he knowingly cheated.

[@TheAdvertisement]

I'm noticing a trend in people trying to debunk this video in that they only focus on one aspect of Karl's reasoning out of many. Karl was using his reasoning about "clever cheating" to disprove Dream being some sort of mastermind, he used other reasoning to disprove Dream being caught for something stupid. Karl personally vouches for the credibility of the anonymous developer because he knows said developer. I know Karl is trustworthy, so this testimony is pretty trustworthy. Dream did not "feed numbers" to his expert source, he gave the statistician what he requested. They both just did bad math. You think Dream knows crap about complicated statistics? You're giving him too much credit once again. It's also laughable that you think that, between the actually very little content creation he does (do you see how often he uploads?), and out of the one week that this faulty mod was in effect, there's no way Dream didn't notice his luck was modified. Yet again, too much credit.

[@euanmacleod3738]

@@TheAdvertisement Given that he is literally saying on stream how lucky he is, even in his own account he is demonstrably aware that he has having good luck - and we know he played the game more for producing his other content, which will include more gametime, obviously, than he clipped to those videos, as well as playing the game just generally - unless you think he only touched the game when he was recording. That the data for the expert came from Dream, rather than independant work, isn't disputed here, so you are just engaging with your perception of the reasoning - though, let's be honest, you don't need to be a brain trust to set appropriate parameters here. There's a reason it was so widely and quickly criticised. But more importantly, you seem to be taking Karl vouching for the credibility of the source to mean the source is both genuinely a developer who modded the game, and everything they say about this is reliably honest. The first step is fine, my own response wouldn't make sense if I was casting doubt on that, but the second step? Is Karl even vouching for that? Has he shown any work to support that? No, you appear to be coming at this based on faith, which is fine but obviously not persuasive. If they had shared any correspondence about the mod, then we're starting to get some meaningful traction towards believing their account, but that is conspicuously missing and all we have is their joint testimony. The person accused of cheating, and the totally anonymous person, with a financial connection to the accused, who facilitated the cheat. It isn't exactly a silver bullet, is it? I also find it difficult to believe they would have this relationship where the developer would mod the game, and there would be no discussion about the details of what the mod would be - or that the mod would make a significant alteration that hadn't been asked for without saying anything about it. The point is, how plausible do you find this? You clearly do, and that's fine, but there isn't enough here for me to agree.

[@TheAdvertisement]

​@@euanmacleod3738 Thinking you're getting pretty good luck and realizing you're getting astronomically impossible luck are a bit different lol. Really though in terms of gameplay it's a thin line, it's hard to tell just _how_ lucky you are. The guy who suspected Dream was cheating thought he was lucky, but he didn't know if it was impossible luck (in the trillions like it was determined), which is why the math needed to be done to even make an accurate accusation. His recording sessions are on average 3-4 hours, as evidenced by the few full recordings he's uploaded of his manhunts. Most of the rest of his gameplay was the Dream SMP or speedrunning on stream. Also you do realize there's a lot more to Minecraft than ender pearl and blaze rod droprates? Incorrect, Dream didn't give the expert "data", and by claiming this you're just demonstrating your ignorance on this subject. To be fair statistics at this level are complicated, but Karl explains it well enough at around 30:00. Dream didn't give the statistician specific data, he just provided different events affected by randomness in the game. Basically, he told the statistician what to look at and help compare his modified droprates to. Karl absolutely is vouching for that? Your questioning of this is ridiculous. Karl literally says he was able to access messages between Dream and the developer too, he just wasn't allowed to show them in the video directly. You're allowed to be skeptical of a story, even if it's the truth. Said skepticism should be well informed and not warp the explanation though, and at the end of the day "Dream just cheated" is a lot harder to argue for given Karl's video. You can't just debunk parts of Karl's video and claim that means Dream must have cheated as if it's the default- you still have to give some evidence or reasoning that Dream did it intentionally. You're only pushing halfway.

[@euanmacleod3738]

​@@TheAdvertisement 'Basically, Dream was coming up with his own numbers and feeding them directly to his expert, who would use them unquestionably...' Erm, look at your own timestamp and actually listen to it this time, please. However you want to break that down, whatever way you want to frame it, Dream is directing the expert in his favour. That naked fact is what it is, with no comment to his intent or ability, where you are so keen to offer him the benefit of the doubt. My issue is, you are extending him that benefit a lot across multiple different points. The point remains uncontested that he was aware of his luck, and he was getting in lots of gametime to experience it. Sure, there is more to the game than those drop rates, but they are pretty pivotal drop rates, that mean the world to anyone familiar with speed running. Dream saw A LOT more of it than did the person who eventually flagged it. You honestly don't seem to be understanding what I am saying, or are responding to things I haven't said. I can't even wrap my head around why you think it would be ridiculous to question the honesty of the developer when they say they added this modification without telling Dream, and Dream never knew. Karl says he accessed messages between the two of them, yes, but.... Ugh, you know what? I'm going to grab you another quote: 'The only fact that we know for sure was that his game was modified. How it was done, and why it was done, is something that ultimately I couldn't 100% verify. Dream's developer backs up his story, but I couldn't find any concrete evidence to back up the timeline of events. The mod that was used apparently no longer exists, and the developer doesn't keep track of version history - which is suspicious but not conclusive. I asked for the direct messages or any proof of the conversations Dream and the developer had, both when checking Dream's files and when the developer came clean, but nothing could be provided.' With the last line accompanied by text on screen saying that Dream regularly deletes his message history for security reasons. Karl is absolutely vouching for that? Is he? How hard are you squinting to see it? I'm sorry but it seems like you are not paying attention, and are seeing just enough to get whatever conclusion you want. Karl is not vouching for that, he can't vouch for it, because he has no basis with which to confirm it and he says as much. So, Karl absolutely is not vouching for that, and it certainly is not ridiculous to question the word of the developer in this regard. For all the data they could supply Karl, neither of them could provide anything to confirm this aspect of their story, and it is clearly the most vital part of their story. The developer deleted the mod, and Dream deleted his messages. Those naked facts alone do not look great in concert with the rest of what we know. So, as I initially said, this hinges on the word of one more person, who is totally anonymous, and all we know for sure about their relationship with Dream is that they had a financial link. As I said in my last reply, we also have this bizarre story that the developer made this extra alteration to the mod that was not a small deal, even though they were given no reason to do it, and they never made mention of it. Indeed, they kept quiet even while Dream was fighting cheating accusations. I am not warping anything, nor have I ever claimed nor attempted to 'debunk' the video itself, and all I have ever concluded with is my opinion that Dream knowingly cheated - not that it is objective certainty that he must have cheated. I agree it would be hard to simply say 'Dream just cheated,' which is why I never posted a 3 word sentence. There's also more of this very generous benefit of the doubt stuff from you when you conclude that I would still need to actively prove his intent to cheat with evidence. I can't do that, nor have I attempted to do that. I can only respond to the evidence we have, and then show some reasoning on it - which is all I have done here. We know his game was modded, we know his speedrun was invalid, we know too many other cases of people who turn to cheating speed runs, we know people do not always cheat the best possible way nor always make the best decisions to get the outcomes they want. Frankly that would be enough to settle, in most cases, that someone cheated, except in this case there is this ambiguity about the mod and the developer saying it was on them. That gives plenty of grounds to plausibly say it was never Dream's intent to cheat, sure, but it depends on your willingness to believe everything the developer says. That takes us back to plausibility, where you and I are going different directions on this. I'm not declaring my opinion as hard fact, and I would hope neither are you, but there is absolutely reasonable grounds to be sceptical of their account. They provided no evidence, despite everything that ought to have been at their disposal, to confirm that account. It's cool that you believe it. It isn't unreasonable to find it plausible and believe it. But, insisting that there is no reasonable grounds for me to be sceptical of it is a tad overzealous, and being so eager to frame the developer's account as ironclad truth makes me dubious of your neutrality going into this.

[@TheAdvertisement]

@@euanmacleod3738 How the hell do you look at that clip and that's all you take away, seriously? It should be obvious enough the Dream wasn't giving him "data", he was giving the guy reference points to other manipulatable rng events speedrunners could target, he was giving the guy a pool of constants to start with. Obviously yes, it pushed the results in his favor, but calling assuming Dream didn't know what he was doing as "giving him the benefit of the doubt" is laughable. What you call benefit of the doubt I call again, not giving him too much credit. Dream isn't a statistics expert, he had no idea what he was doing, plain and simple. What? The person who flagged it was a fellow speedrunner, one who'd be running the game far longer than Dream. (Also one who was later outed as a cheater as shown in a most recent Karl video actually.) Your ignorance is showing. First off the developer being anonymous again doesn't matter because Karl knows their identity. As for the messages, I misremembered, I thought the emails were in relation to the developer but that section was about the statistician. Even so, Karl does vouch for the developer as someone he knows, he just can't confirm the story, only the legitimacy of the developer and likeliness they're telling the truth. Sure it's not concrete, but again, an alternate story is needed to be given ground to deny it. You absolutely have warped things, I've called you out on multiple other points. As for your conclusions though they definitely differ from the tone of your original comment greatly. Your opinion can remain the same on that point but it shouldn't be done to try and invalidate Karl's video, which the original comment did. It still doesn't help you're largely ignoring the second half of the video where Karl dives deep into Dream's reactions and mental state at the time of the accusations and why his reactions likely mean he wasn't doing it on purpose, but I digress. I can't say for sure Dream didn't cheat on purpose, but I can say with heavy certainty that that's the most likely story.

[@cocacola4blood365]

I saw this a couple months after it was uploaded. This was the first Karl Jobst video I watched. I've been subscribed ever since.

[@TanisAnnicchiarico]

The difference with the statistics expert (as somebody who deals with statistics in the social and behavioral sciences), is that your credibility is *everything*. Sure, people use their consulting groups and such for credit work, but that's after those firms have built up a reputation. When I was doing my studies, even though I was with an accredited group, we would still have "Written and Compiled by: Insert Author Name Here" at the end of it. I trust you, so having heard that you saw the person's name and checked credentials, I believe they're an accredited individual. But I don't think people were wrong (Critikal for example) in their opinions because they were 100% valid, as a person in that field I had the same questions they did because it seemed to break a fair amount of standards that we use. Back to watching the rest of the video now! Edit: Video complete, very well done Karl! You've given me a lot of new things to think about :)

[@nathanielweston1934]

to me that just seems like the expert saw what audience the report was being exposed to and decided he didnt want thousands of children knowing their details, that or the fact that they knew they couldnt do a comprehensive report and weren't confident with themselves. get paid move on type thing

[@MossoDaBanana]

@@nathanielweston1934 if he did that, which is possible, shows how he simply can't take his job seriously enough to deny a client that he knows he can't help

[@TanisAnnicchiarico]

​@@nathanielweston1934 That's a fair enough point, my mentor did a study once that addressed a sensitive socioeconomic issue at the time (mind you this was back in the 70s or 80s) and she received numerous death threats from people because she spoke the truth provided by the data, not the truth sought for by those preaching certain narratives. So there's definitely room for that to be a possibility, and I 100% see the dilemma that the Statistician was in, but it's unfortunately part of the job. It's something I was prepped for in university, it's kind of like how fireman are inherently going to be in danger of fire no matter what they do (though there are steps they can take to lessen certain aspects of the danger, it'll always be there). Just like with this, when you're a scientist (of which a Statistician would count, of course) you're always going to run the risk of public outcry. Ironically enough, the very people we're trying to help (the public) are often the first ones to come for our heads if the data doesn't tell the story they want.

[@iy42]

Yeah, I think there’s an iffy implication others are being unfair for not having bought into the story Karl later went out of his way to verify (to himself at least). Formatting a document in LaTeX doesn’t make it legit, and since no one looking in on the situation from the outside has the info to verify who wrote the doc or what their relationship was to anyone involved, it’s absolutely valid to dismiss everything about it, even now. And it obviously isn’t anyone else’s responsibility to track down this info on their own. It’s great to be in a position in life where doing this level of research on, let’s just say, quite niche topics, is beneficial to ones work, but I think the average person is being perfectly reasonable by assuming that anonymous paper wasn’t on the up and up and moving on with their day.

[@TanisAnnicchiarico]

@@iy42 That's another good point, people are really easily fooled by something if it "looks official enough". Like, I could write an APA paper about how putting the cereal in after pouring your milk makes you a psychopath (I could even include doctored citations, a fake bibliography, etc). None of the information inside of it would be legitimate info, but I would wager that a good chunk of people would just skim through, see that it all looks official enough, and then just take it for fact.

[@EvilOverlordQ]

"I have an amazing community" [Mass Effect music starts] Karl: This is false.

[@runaway74]

LMAOOOO

[@Sturben-qn7ph]

Lmao

[@gangstercomputergod9362]

Oh, come on. What's wrong with wanting to murder your favorite minecrap streamer and turn them into a chair?

[@DarthCinnabon]

@Metaph bro the fuck does this even mean?

[@epicsandvich014]

I legitimately love your use of the FTL soundtrack in your vids, I adore that game, and your vids

[@peytonsimon2552]

Yeah I’m still not convinced but I definitely appreciate your take. Many of your main points were “the vibes feel right and how could someone lie so good? That’s just not possible!” Not very compelling.

[@TheAdvertisement]

That's not what the points were, that's how they felt to you if you weren't paying attention to the actual psychology and reasoning. It's not "how could someone lie so good", it's "if Dream was lying well he wouldn't have such a convoluted story, and only release his confession this far after the fact, and if he wasn't lying well then he couldn't have been planning for any of this".

[@seanscott1308]

People do things for reasons. So if dream cheated, how do you explain this? 19:40 Maybe he's just dumb and got lucky, but that isn't consistent with future actions, that require high thoughtfulness/intelligence

[@BboP_]

This reads like you skipped straight to the conclusion part of the video and ignored everything else, but I hope I’m wrong!