Elden Ring Lore - History of the Tarnished

[@corverickg7261]

The amount of faith put into the Tarnished is almost crushing, can't wait to dig into this one

[@topcat59]

Basically we tarnished were queen marika’s Safetynet, that if all of her plans fail, she would rely on the tarnished to fix this issue regardless on what ending they get.🤔🐱

[@square-table-gaming]

To be honest I think any ending where we repair the Elden Ring would technically go against Marika's wishes. Interestingly, the only endings where we don't are lunar princess Ranni's and the frenzy flame

[@Jay-ys2cf]

@@square-table-gaming isn’t it also implied that Ranni was involved in the shattering? If Melina and Ranni are indeed connected it could be that they are both part of Marikas plan to drive the greater will away and begin an age without it’s interference.

[@square-table-gaming]

@@Jay-ys2cf Ranni is basically the reason for the shattering. It's her murder of Godwyn the golden that incited the whole thing. That said, the concept that Marika was involved with the night of Black knives also has some interesting theories but nothing concrete.

[@drakmendoa]

@@square-table-gaming I see there more evidence for her involvement then against her. Marika did Godwyn bury where we find him and where he has infected the Erdtree and vast parts of the Lands between. Marika manipulated others before like Rennela, Godfrey or even her own shadow Malekith. And she is a Numen like all the other Members of the Black Knifes. I even think the Golden Order was just a pawn for Marika to reach her final goals and she allowed it's rise only because it benefited her the most out of all options. And as we know she shaped the Golden Order in her own will much more than the Greater Will would do. I think that all was a long plan from Marika to destroy the greater Will from the inside and place herself on top.

[@joshfloyd7755]

I'm new here ( 80 hrs in game) it seems to me the problem in the lands between is the outer god. Perhaps I don't know enough about Marika, but to me, it looks like the Erdtree is representative of an inner God. A diety that belongs there, but I don't really know the origins of this world...off to see about Marika now, thanks

[@dracorex426]

The Tarnished are made up of all of Godfrey's forces (except apparently the Crucible Knights), every member of Hoarah Loux's tribe, anyone else whose loyalty was primarily to Godfrey, any of their spouses, children, siblings, parents, etc. who chose to go into exile with them, and all of their descendants who were born outside of the Lands Between, plus anyone else who was later exiled from the Lands Between, any of *their* spouses/children/etc. who followed them into exile, and all of *their* descendants who were born outside of the Lands Between.

[@holyspear26]

I’m pretty sure crucible knights still count as Tarnished. I don’t think it’s a glitch that they attack invaders and can be healed by co oppers

[@dracorex426]

@@holyspear26 But they don't seem to have left, is the thing.

[@FreedomAndPeaceOnly]

I doubt that a Tarnished must have been among Godfrey's forces to be one. It is just that they too *_became Tarnished_* due to Marika's wierd plans for the outside continents. Inside of the LandsBetween there exist basically only one type of 'acceptable Human being' 😏 and that is the 'Human with the grace of gold'. Recognizable that they all have a golden eye iris, which also signifies the Erdtree's *OWNERSHIP* over them, yes I say ownership, as those people are pretty much property of the golden Order's design which defied permanent death. 😎 They cannot die even if they want too. They are expected to serve forever. Every citizen, regardless of Knight-oath's or not. This is why even normal citizens attack us sometimes. This is their culture, their credo, their moral system. That only they are worth something and every aberation of a Human must either be expelled or slain. If... for whatever reason this blessing is revoked however and the eye iris returns to a "ungraced" color, those people are labelled as _"Tarnished"._ ☝ A status which is most probably confused a lot by not only those who identify as such but also those with golden eyes. Since some _"Tarnished",_ like Ensha for example who attacks us in the Roundtable hold, die permanently after slain only once. While we... also a tarnished, are the only true Tarnished apparently. We are a dead person who yet lives and we are always farted out again by a grace, when we "die" once more. I think the Tarnished is an obscured existence, only recognizable by those who can actually see the guiding grace of gold. 🤔 And even if you actually have this "undying condition" it does not mean you are *ALWAYS* a true & proper 'Tarnished'. As you can lose this condition... most probably, if deep inside of your heart you go _"hollow"_ and give up on actually becoming the Eldenlord. Cause the guiding grace of gold seems to be at least semi-conscious. And it can sense if someone it has guided, has given up and is no longer worth the trouble. 😒

[@redheadsilver8041]

@@FreedomAndPeaceOnly And the Erdtree, once they they sucks their souls to fed directly to the great will outer god, meaning this entire setting is a "farm".

[@kaosisback8376]

​@@holyspear26why would that make any sense

[@samf.s.7731]

There was a question on a subreddit about whether or not players made up a background for their tarnished. I personally didn't have much, just the fact that she was one of Horah Loux's warriors and was exiled with him. When I got to that boss fight, after having everyone being condescending to me (Even Ranni, let's face it). And even people who were bigger than tradition like Kenneth Haight, and Godfrey called me "brave tarnished" I swear I was like "my lord!" Lol. Not "foul tarnished", not telling me to "stick to my lane" essentially... Just recognizing what it takes to get there... Only another tarnished, with an equally grand backstory, recognized the nameless tarnished warrior for all her accomplishments. Damn it Godfrey rules ..

[@Crusader_phyco]

My tarnished is a fallen Templar

[@SophiaLilithUwU]

I think you are right on the money with the roundtable two fi ngers being a plant by the golden order opposed to marika. After all Bernahls armor set tells us that the finger maidens cannot burn the erdtree, so i believe the two fingers supplied us with duds that will guide us on an impossible quest meant to break the spirit of the tarnished and make them give up. The only reason this is different for us is our chance encounter with Melina, who is by her own words not a finger maiden, but a kindling maiden, made for the express purpose of burning the erdtree by marika.

[@dracorex426]

Not every member of a tribe has the same surname. Nepheli Loux is definitely a very close relative of Godfrey. Probably a direct descendant and if not almost certainly a niece. I'd bet on her being his daughter.

[@gabrielbelmont2447]

She stated that she was the daughter of Hoarah Loux. So she is Godfrey's daughter

[@dracorex426]

@@gabrielbelmont2447 Well yeah, that clears it up pretty well.

[@imritaylor8891]

She was the storm lords daughter. Godfrey killed the storm lord and adopted her.

[@bbbeb7840]

@@imritaylor8891 wasn't dragonlord placidusax the storm lord?

[@colossaltitan3546]

​@@gabrielbelmont2447 I think she was referring to her adoptive father Gideon, at the roundtable hold, which is the only instance where she ever speaks about relatives

[@shenloken2]

Yes we are just pawns in the larger scheme of things. Even when becoming the Elden Lord. But in a world such as Elden Ring; that’s the best one can hope for. Sitting at Graces about ten feet away from malicious foes and vicious monsters isn’t exactly a place I’d like to call home.

[@crabniac]

If I haven't missunderstood something, shoulldn't it be so that Godfrey was killed outside of the Lands Between and then gets called upon by the Fingers to return. If so, considering how powerfull he is, and that shot in the opening cutscene showing he was killed or hurt badly, what in the absoloute hell was able to kill him like that? He was BUTCHERED. Maybe we'll see as the dlc/dlcs drop.

[@wolfiemuse]

The opening cutscenes use concept art that isn’t necessarily meant to be exactly how things happened - for example the infamous Morgott fighting Radahn scene

[@henrikmrkedahl1690]

Caelid bird probably 🤐

[@uglyskully5928]

@@wolfiemuse why wouldn’t it be tho? Its in the opening cutscene of the game. Its official art so you could say its valid lore

[@uglyskully5928]

@@wolfiemuse plus morgott whipes all demigods 1v1 🫣 (maybe not rotussy lord)

[@billfox847]

@@uglyskully5928because in the opening radahn and malenia are seen fighting in the wailing dunes of southern caelid, where in-game malenia blooms in the aeonian swamp. The opening isn’t completely literal

[@British_Rogue]

Think about how much conflict could have been avoided if no-one paid any attention to the Finger Reader Crones.

[@sm901ftw]

5:40 I would assume the line "Perhaps that might serve you in lieu of a maidens guidance" is Melina's own words rather than Marikas. Remember, Melina is not actually a Maiden. Both Varre and Melina say at the start of the game that Finger Maidens are supposed to guide tarnished seeking to be Elden Lord, but ours is missing (or more likely dead). Melina is fulfilling the role in her place, but she's doing it for her own goals, and can't guide us like a maiden is supposed to. In that context, this might be Melina saying "Sorry, a real Maiden could probably tell you what to do, but as Marika says you've grown strong in your own right, so maybe you don't need one." Plus, Marika's quotes are all in ye-olde style english. "Ye will wage war..." for example. This line is regular english though, and much more in line with Melina's way of talking than the rest of the quotes.

[@square-table-gaming]

That's definitely one way to read the scene.

[@MarshallPFinch]

The words "Well, perhaps that might serve you in lieu of a maiden's guidance" is not part of the quote from Marika, it's the first words from Melina after the end of the quote. She's saying that although she can't grant a maiden's guidance, these echoes might be okay as a substitute. Should there be any doubt, just look at her posture. She always tilts her head upward as she quotes Marika's echoes, but she lowers her head as she begins to say "Well, perhaps that..."

[@square-table-gaming]

The only thing that leaves me to believe this is not the case is that none of the other spoken echoes involve melina inserting herself into the dialogue. It would be very odd to do that only once.

[@orlandubeoulve8605]

0:47 looks like the tarnished are covered in sleep mist falling from the chandeliers above. Iv never noticed this until now

[@WeyounSix]

I truly think Tarnished just means anyone who currently lives in the lands between who had been divested of their grace, by whatever means. I think what happened to Godfrey's warriors was the overall idea in what created the CONCEPT of tarnished as a word to describe anyone without grace. Like how autism was around before we had a word for it or the concept that represented it. I think being tarnished is like that. Anyone can be tarnished, but the act of forcing Godfrey's soldiers to no longer have their grace, is what gave the world the concept of what it meant to be tarnished as a name. It always existed, but Marika tarnishing Godfrey and his warriors is what gives us the term we use to describe anyone without grace. I would think that anyone born outside of the lands between without the erdtree is most likely considered Tarnished already if they don't have their grace naturally. I think Okina was from the land of reeds but also a tarnished because he had no grace. It could just be poetic, but the Rivers of Blood Katana specifically says Okina is FROM the land of reeds. This may not have meant born there, but I think it does imply it. Because of this I think that the intent was that the backstory of your character could have been literally ANYTHING where you simply do not have your grace at the start of the game. A wandering swordsman from outside the lands between who never had grace? That works. One of Godfrey's most trusted warriors? Yup that works. We do know that the tarnished left the lands between to fight and die, so Okina could be from the lands between, but I like to think the concept is purposefully more open ended so you can make your backstory literally whatever you want.

[@wanderingnoble]

i think this is a very good almost perfect description, it seems accurate to was intended of the tarnished concept by FromSoftware’s team and George RR Martin.

[@Morfe02]

Yes that explains all but i find weird how Death works Tarnished are inmortals ? No, they can be kill and revive The Grace is inmortal ? Yes because Marika put the Death Rune away But also the lands between are a place between Death and LIVE, where souls are found until they "true die"

[@WeyounSix]

@@Morfe02 The rune of death is called destined death because removing the rune means death can no longer be your destiny. The tarnished however are not immortal because of the Elden ring not having the rune of death in it anymore, but because Marika’s grace keeps reviving you, not allowing you to perish. You come back from grace which is power that resides within the Erdtree.

[@whatsnewbois9814]

The thing is, it's not even the first time someone burned the erdtree. Bernal is said to have been a champion worthy of becoming a Lord "until his Maiden threw herself into the fire". Ok, we have a Tarnished that was chosen to become a lord, whos maiden threw herself into "*the* fire", possibly the fire of the giants forge, and simply lost the will to carry on from there. I belive his maiden was Melina since she is "bodyless" with burnscars all over her hands.

[@square-table-gaming]

It's more likely his Maiden burning herself didn't actually work, which is why the Erdtree is not burned when we reach the Lands Between. There's a cut quest involving Bernhal's Maiden, but it's always tough to say which cut content is actually cannon.

[@whatsnewbois9814]

@@square-table-gaming yeah it's a damn maze of dead ends and illusion trying to reach the truth. Some answers may be waiting in the DLCs but also likely more questions

[@AlTariqLuqmanMuhammad]

@@square-table-gaming Bernahl is the only other Tarnished we encounter in Farum Azula (as both a summon and an invader if we kill Rykard), so my interpretation is that his maiden burning herself would have worked *if* he had followed through with unleashing the rune of death like the Player Tarnished does by defeating Maliketh. However, as WhatsNewBois said, he lost the will to keep going and became a Recusant of the Volcano Manor instead.

[@SophiaLilithUwU]

i do think the erdtree has actually been burned already, TarnischeArcheologist makes a good case for that. I doubt it was Bernahl however. Personally i dont think finger maidens can burn the erdtree. only melina can and she probably did already given she describes herself as "burned and bodyless". Melina being Bernahls dead finger maiden would be a huge coincidence and i do think there would have been some recognition on melinas part if that was the case.

[@nickytheanimal2413]

Theres a ghost in the ashen capital talking about the tree being burned yet still standing, and ive always wondered if he was talking about me or some other time it was burned

[@TotalBlackoutPainting]

You guys are my favorite lore channel. My PC died so I can't play now. Listening to your lore videos is a good substitute. Edit: I had to clean up the grammar on this mess.

[@ElimGarakSpoonHead]

Feels like the tarnished as a topic gets slept on. Now I gotta reinstall Elden Ring after this. 💀

[@square-table-gaming]

Happy to bring it back haha

[@scotthalland]

Something I don't see mentioned enough is that the Tarnished rising is a direct allusion to warriors of Valhalla returning to fight during Ragnarok. I think Ragnarok is the initial inspiration for Elden Ring and that Norse Mythology is a good lens to view events through.

[@wolfiemuse]

Also yes, I think it’s entirely possible that Marika just used Godfrey. In those times, she was still a staunch believer in the Golden Order and truly believed that she was bringing order into the world by conquering “uncivilized” cultures. So that when Godfrey’s purpose was run out, she then turned her eyes to her next goal: to unite the people of the Lands Between; specifically the people who put up the strongest fight against her and would prove useful to her- the Carians and their Royal Knights. I’m not going to go into Radagon because it’s still super super unknown whether he existed the entire time as a separate entity and was joined to her, whether he was an intentional creation of Marika, or whether she unintentionally had a personality split that became it’s own person. His origins are simply too vague to really say for certain; and I’m not really sure what I believe to be the most likely scenario. But yeah. Marika was ultimately a mastermind, both when she was a believer in the Golden Order and once she became disillusioned with it. *Especially* if you believe (as I do) that she had a hand in orchestrating the shattering of the Elden Ring, the death of Godwyn, and the calling of all the Tarnished to return and claim the throne. She ultimately couldn’t know whether the Tarnished who succeeded would choose a different Order to succeed her own or whether they would foolishly try to extend her previous Order, but she had to try. It seemed to me she genuinely believed that the Greater Will should be in power no longer, and that anything other than that would be better. Edit: idk if I think the fingers gave us our Grace. I don’t know if I think the Fingers are powerful enough to do that; the only person we’ve known to be able to give and take away grace is Marika. Maybe they couldn’t take away Grace so instead they try to propaganda us into being faithful little servants but ultimately fail and don’t know what to do once we begin showing that we do truly have the strength to take the throne by force if necessary.

[@rushpatriot2866]

She banished him to make him stronger. "after thy death I'll give back what I once claimed" it was made to make him stronger

[@mueezadam8438]

I love this analysis and it gave me my own theory of the purpose behind Marika’s final speech to the Godfrey’s warriors. In my opinion, Marika was not setting up a contingency, nor plotting against the Greater Will. She is the type of person to do what she thinks is right, all other voices be damned- so she at this early juncture was probably still ‘loyal’ as much as her strong independent will would allow …Tangent… I think Emperyeans are chosen based on their strength of will, the greater will despite appearances doesn’t want a pawn, they want a leader because they are actually the caretaker of the world as opposed to the outer gods who want to make the denizens of the Land Between follow to their own vision …Tangent end… Marika’s speech was meant to pacify the warriors. The last thing she wants is for them to get involved in her plans, so she tells them that “oh you guys will be needed later, just wait patiently out of sight and out of mind until this totally plausible sign occurs” And the ‘cruel joke’ that the Tarnished who eventually lost sight of Grace spoke of was the revelation that their mission was a false promise that became a convenient tool for the Two Fingers to exploit.

[@ticky7817]

Great video but off topic, major props for rocking Dual Bandit curved swords. Will forever be my favorite Build lol

[@Mistercodmobilefan8378]

I love these lore videos so so much! And I mean like yea I always wondered why did marika took Godfrey's grace away and for what reason? And like yea when we battle Gideon ofnir after defeating malekith, he did read something and yet he came to try to stop us from becoming the elden lord like what did Gideon ofnir read and what were marika's plans for us tarnished??

[@Dylan-tq8nr]

I like the theory that our tarnished is an illegitimate child of Marika. The opening cinematic when it says 'and a tarnished of no renown' has a walking mausoleum sound in the bg. These house soulless offspring of Marika. And I think our true power lies in being able to use any power used against us, so if we were stripped of grace why couldn't we strip it back.

[@chuggs9549]

Although I'm glad the tarnished were given a spotlight, I'm still wondering about one thing: That one line by Gideon Ofnir. If Marika was planning for the tarnished to eventually return to the lands between, repair the elden ring and become elden lord, then why did the smartest tarnished try to stop it from happening? He said "Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle unto eternity"

[@square-table-gaming]

Gideon believed our goal was impossible to attain, so he believed that was the point.

[@benjaminck6768]

I interpreted it like this; Marika and Radagon are one entity, one loyal to the greater will and one plotting to end its influence. We see radagon surface at the end of the game to defend the erdtree, it’s possible that radagon tried to influence the leader of the roundtable hold to try to kill his own kind (tarnished) to protect the greater will’s interests.

[@woffydoggy686]

Could you do a lore video about Gideon Ofnir? This guy has lots of misteries to hide!

[@andreasreinhardt.2402]

Elden ring: you are undead kinda of. Dark souls: you are 100 percent undead. Demon souls: you are a spirit bound to the nexus. Undead more or less. Sekiro: you are granted immortality by your master. Bloodborne: you had a bad dream. I wonder what's next.

[@Aon_Duine]

Bloodborne: You are chosen by a great one who grants you the gift of reviving every time you die by linking you to the dream... Not all the events in Bloodborne are a dream. And the dreams are oniric worlds, pocket dimensions aside from our reality. Every realm has a god that created it, and a host that uses to give it a shape. Everything is tangible in them

[@British_Rogue]

I viewed the Tarnished as followers and members of Godfrey's army.

[@g1998k]

A believe that the GREATER WILL is the entity behind the TWO FINGERS and the Two Fingers is the vessel through which the Greater Will communicates with the tarnished. After the shattering the Greater Will possibly instructed the Two Fingers to guide the Tarnished to becoming an Elder Lord. I also believe the DLC will either fill in the gaps between our Tarnished, the Greater Will, Queen Marika and Radagon AFTER the end of the game OR continue Ranni The Witch story which will fight against the Greater Will OR something to do with Miquella and Malenia.

[@spazzgod1407]

Thanks for the storytelling

[@sk8legendz]

I can't help but feel all the fighting Godfrey did conquering the Lands between, The War of the Shattering, and us Tarnished returning on our sanctified pillaging aren't all serving the Greater Will/the Golden Order in some capacity and Radagon being Loyal to both makes sense as to why his symbol is found on the Thorns preventing us Tarnished from entering the Erdtree; it would keep the cycle of conflict eternal as undying Tarnished fight for a throne they can never take. We Tarnished are pretty much just infinite fuel doomed to die over an over to keep the Greater Will/Golden Order's tank full and I think Melina/Sir Gideon's Dialogue and Lore shine a lot of undiscussed light on Marika's plans for the Tarnished and Melina herself. would be cool to see you cover the correlation between Melina and Marika and the ultimate Goal in mind Marika/the greater will had for the Tarnished and what exactly is it about restoring Death and burning the Erd Tree that goes against Marika's wishes as stated by Melina. since it seems to be backed up as being contrary when Sir Gideon seems to imply Marika has high hopes for us, that we might struggle for eternity, as death would ruin that plan.

[@Acesahn]

My head canon is that Tarnished were glitches in the Golden Order (Aside from Godfrey and his warriors) and that our protagonists and the Tarnished of the Round Table were all suddenly stripped of their Grace (Their eyes dimmed) and got essentially persecuted and flat out executed for being a freak. When we died we just staid dead unlike the others who were reincarnated by the Erdtree. This makes your character really fun, as if you were a faithful servant of the Golden Order you suddenly found yourself a shunned freak who then lead a chaotic or short life. Upon being reserected you might be a little jaded with the Demigods and the Golden Order explaining why you'd help Ranni, Fia or even Dung Eater or the Frenzied Flame (If you were also a psychopath I guess lol) But if you chose Gold Mask's ending you're essentially fixing the system that rejected you so no one has to go through what you did again.

[@matthewrichardson2533]

I want to see the Land of Reeds in a DLC for sure

[@Aon_Duine]

As my understanding, kinship could also mean they are kind of a race in the lands between, people that lived where Godfrey lived. Maybe they were called differently before they were vanished from the lands between. They don't have to be exactly family or members of the same tribe to be from the same kin. That's how I see it. And yeah, Marika totally planed everything. She was willing to loose everything just to vanish the greater will out of the lands between.

[@Reybackk]

Such underrated channel

[@square-table-gaming]

Thank you!

[@cjh8069]

In DLC I hope all will be explained maybe is where the Tribes of Godfrey and descendants retreated to. Since there are new weapons and skips. One would say a warrior race of people with the lion dancer boss and the new kung fu 🥋 ash of war as seen in trailer.

[@that0neguy467]

Man it sucks how this only has 228 views (as of posting) man’s is way underrated

[@square-table-gaming]

Appreciate it! Its a Monday, we got this one out late, we expected a slower start.

[@shahin3dart]

very well explained,good work!

[@astrotholis289]

there is a theory that the maiden puppet selvus has was ment to be your maiden and was somehow subverted before the player and her ever meet

[@DevilyKnight]

I really overthinking on the assassination of Godwin right now. Imagine if the dlc will go with going back in time and we were apart of the assassination of godwyn. This would be similar to us killing artorios and setting the events of his story. Of course in a way this wouldn’t come true and maybe some people won’t like it, but it’s still in the realm of possibility.

[@the_honey_badger2435]

I wrote a whole Idea passage about a Fun little prequel story about my character in Elden ring. some stuff is not lore accurate but I made it that way for story purposes, anyway here it is. A boat arrives from the land of reeds into the lands between. 4 warriors on that boat. Okina , Yura , Terad (Main character) and Inaba. They all came to the lands to escape the brutal civil war. They all go their separate ways. And Teradonu meets Lansseax Priestess of the dragon cult and Vyke the dragon bolt. Terad becomes 2nd highest knight right behind Vyke. the three become an inseparable trio. Vyke and Terad join Godfrey’s army until the banishment of Godfrey and the tarnished making Vyke and Terad Tarnished. They go on the march of the tarnished in the badlands. Then the night of black knives starts the shattering. A great war between the Demigods. Vyke and Terad are called back to the lands between to protect the Dragon Cult in the Royal capital. During the siege of leyndell, the royal capital, where Starscourge Radahn’s forces marched on the capital, Terad was slain by Radahn while Vyke and Lansseax could only watch. Lansseax and Vyke bury him in the Fringe Folk hero’s grave. After the shattering Vyke would seek the Elden ring becoming the closest tarnished to do so but ultimately fails to do to the 3 fingers putting the flame of frenzy inside of Vyke. Lansseax Battles The Frenzied Vyke and traps his soul within an evergaol, a magical prison, but Vyke’s body now attacks those who make it to the church of inhibition. Lansseax disappears after the fight with Vyke Along with Other Tarnished Terad awakens within the hero’s grave and starts his journey for the crown of Elden lord.

[@budge7074]

Hey, sometime could you explain what the golden order actually is? Is it a bunch of super finger gods and Marika is like a super powerful demigod?

[@holyspear26]

I’ll explain. The greater will gains some kind of power from the faith in the lands between. Possibly parasitic relationship or mutually beneficial. It uses the tree to carry this out and has the fingers to preach directly to the inhabitants. And chooses a native powerful enough to be the president basically. Marika, seperate from the greater will, decides she will use this power to make the perfect world. She removes death rune and the Greater Will does not mind. The Order is not the greater will, it’s just people trying to control life/death forces and make an ideal society. For better or worse. This is why holy damage does not banish undead but only Order incantations specifically targeting undead will. Greater will does not care about undead or even Order. They want some order actually but only for the safety of the tree. The details matter little and pretty much anyone is free to start a new Order as long as they mend the Elden Ring. You’ll notice Fundamentalist spells have an occult/evil aspect to them and the two cornerstone incantations, require no faith at all. At its core, fundamentalism is simply exerting your will over life/death forces and bending reality with understanding of causality and regression. I’ll point out that Radahn, a fundamentalist uses gravity magic to protect the Golden Order from space invasions and Gideon enjoys channeling power from outer gods and even uses necromancies. And Morgott, a declared enemy of the Order is given Grace by the Greater Will, becomes King, gets cured by the Tree as he dies, even after channeling power from the formless mother to protect the Tree.

[@budge7074]

Thanks! I was really confused about dis stuff, so this helps a lot.

[@Aon_Duine]

Basically the Golden Order is the religion in the lands between that prays to the Greater Will. The Elden Beast is the vassal of the greater will that for my understanding, kind of conquered the lands between, but not by force, but by introducing the Erdtree which is kind of like a parasite. The Two Fingers are the direct connection that the inhabitants of the Lands Between have with the Greater Will. While the finger readers are the ones who interpret the words of the fingers to the members of the golden order. Marika was an empyrean. Empyrean are candidates to become gods, so she became a goddess by becoming a vessel of the Elden Ring. Her children Ranni, Malenia and Miquella were empyreans too. Even Malenia was chosen by another god, the god of Rot. And the demigods were all of her children. As my understanding there are this terrenal gods, and then there are this outer gods like the Greater Will, the god of rot, or the mother. The entirety of Ranni's questline is not only to expell the Greater Wil, but to expell all of the outer gods influence on the Lands Between. Thus, giving back the free will to its inhabitants. Hope this helps.

[@emismpunk]

I know it’s just a game…but is any one else legitimately angry at Marika for banishing and then reviving the Tarnished, expecting them to come fight her battles again? How are you going to use a group that includes your own husband, father of your children to wage your wars and essentially make you the God/Queen that you are. Then just kick them to the curb like that!? Yet still expect them to be loyal and come put their lives on the line! (I don’t remember if this is actually in the game or if it was someone’s theory. But I think it was alluded to that Marika put a curse of some kind on the Tarnished to force them back to the lands in between. Possibly doing the same to expel them as well). As a part of me is unwilling to believe that no matter how loyal Godfrey/Hourah’s kinsmen were. That every last one of them would just be okay with suddenly being seen as less than dirt and up rooting their entire lives and homes. Heck, some of the tarnished very well could have been alive before Marika even came to power. (Ex: You can choose Numen race in the character creator…seldom born but long lived.) The Tarnished weren’t all celibate warriors until after their banishment either, right? They had to have had their own families, spouses, young children and babes at the time of their expulsion. Ruining their reputations and putting their families in danger. Could make any proud warrior angry. Can only wonder how many families were ruined because of Marika, either because of pure fickleness or potential future plans. Like SpongeBob and Patrick setting the town on fire. “We did it, Patrick! We saved the city!” Meanwhile the entire lands in between is broken, busted, poisoned and in some cases literally on fire.😂 Anyways, my theory is the reason our Tarnished wakes up in the church of anticipation…is that we are one of the few that never left. Staying and dying in the lands in between. Either due to battle or Marika’s (theoretical) curse. Eventually returning to the church in our death throes or perhaps recognizing us as a warrior of Godfrey. Our body/ashes are returned by a sympathetic Stormveil or a crucible knight or even Godwyn himself. (I’m not taking cut content, aka the potential intro of us physically talking to Godfrey in the bad lands into account here).

[@niksterplays3761]

so as of right now that im writing this Godfrey still has about 20 MILLION tarnished soldiers according to fromsoft's announcement on steam

[@istoleasweetroll7937]

Quick question. Do you think the number of kids birthed at once is significant at all? Like how godfrey gave 3 kids at his time and then afterwards thats when all the others came about.

[@square-table-gaming]

If nothing else it's interesting to me that all twins in the lands between seem to be cursed in one way or another

[@uglyskully5928]

Could you say marika plays 4d chess better then aizen? Guess we won’t know till dlc gives us more details

[@luccasdubai]

This is awesome, just subbed

[@square-table-gaming]

Thank you!!!

[@LimKimOn0000]

Hey can i ask something here?How about Ranni the witch?

[@square-table-gaming]

What about Ranni?

[@Argonisgema]

Why does the thumbnail so very jojo?

[@square-table-gaming]

Talk to Pat Gee our artist. We really dig his style.

[@AwwGeeZ1983]

HUGE compliment, thank you!

[@elenisunbird4910]

It speaks wonders of the audience of this channel how no one in the comments seems to be talking about the thumbnail. Shame on me.

[@square-table-gaming]

We're apparently a very wholesome crew

[@mlmii1933]

I'm not sure that all Tarnished died prior to returning to the Lands Between, the Spirit Tuner doesn't seem to have been resurrected and her hood says she never once saw the Guidance of Grace, but can still teleport since that's the only way to get to the Roundtable. I'm also not sure how many Tarnished were actually given Maidens and suspect there was always a divide between Tarnished that were meant as canon fodder and those chosen to be guided by maidens to believe they could become lord (a lie, but a pretty lie).

[@square-table-gaming]

All tarnish were supposed to have a maiden, it's currently theorized that they don't because of the bloody fingers.

[@mlmii1933]

@Square Table Gaming ... Fair enough, but my question is are we told that in game or are we assuming that was supposed to be the case in the early days of the Tarnished returning because the Tarnished of No Renown was selected as one of the potential Lords? The reason I'm speculating is that even amongst the elder Tarnished references to Finger Maidens are sparse, and the ones that have Maidens mentioned are also the ones who are said to have come close to becoming Lord. We might not know exactly how long Dialos, Dee, and Enshe have been in the Lands Between, but they've been there long enough to lose Guidance and Crowyn and Dialos at least are unlikely to have done anything dangerous enough for thier Maiden to have died. I tend to question the idea that Bloody Fingers are to blame for the lack of Maidens simply because after killing thier own Maiden and being inducted into the Blood Cult they don't have any reason to hunt Maidens. ... This is why I don't believe Varre is responsible for killing our Maiden, he needs us to have the blood of a Maiden (preferably ours and killed by our own hand) in order to recruit us. ... Granted I could easily have missed a reference debunking my speculations, but that's at least the chain of thought behind my theory.

[@square-table-gaming]

@@mlmii1933 the finger maiden fillet tells us, "the maidens live to serve a chosen tarnished, sharing their guidance and the wisdom of the two finger. The guidance of grace would ensure the pair be brought to together. Or at least, such was the promise long ago." The way this is written heavily implies each maiden has a chosen tarnished and that the pair was supposed to be brought together. The traveling maiden robe also tells us, "Maidens traversed the lands between for different reasons. Some to seek audience with the fingers. Others, to find the tarnished they were destined to guide." Again it calls out maidens being meant to guide their destined tarnished. You're right in thinking there's no specific line of text guaranteeing that every tarnished gets a maiden, but it's widely accepted that these descriptions point toward that concept. Keeping in mind that maidens traveled on their own before meeting their tarnished, even if you don't subscribe to the bloody finger idea, literally any harm could be fall them before meeting their destined tarnished while walking through as hostile a place as the lands between.

[@mlmii1933]

@@square-table-gaming ... That's fair, I missed those descriptions, thanks.

[@00spiderwolfman]

It’s weird I’ve resubbed twice now and I don’t remember unsubbing

[@square-table-gaming]

Well that's concerning

[@AwwGeeZ1983]

I don't know if there's ever been any real confirmation on this but I have been hearing about YT auto-unsubbing people from random channels for years. Worth checking your subs now and then to see they're all still there.

[@maudlinfaust]

@@square-table-gaming yo, this has literally just happened to me dude. I subbed about a week ago - you’ve ever responded to a comment of mine on a recent video. I was subbed the, but as of typing this,, I’m unsubbed. Gonna resub ofc, but it’s probably worth saying something

[@square-table-gaming]

@@maudlinfaust thanks for letting me know, I honestly have no idea what KZbin's problem is these days

[@Poliswag7]

So she banished a bunch of strong warriors so they could go get stronger in case she needed them

[@IMGBrk96]

I believe the ones who have the most faith in our tarnished are Melina, Ranni and Miquella.

[@CasualWatcher-pd7ul]

What i want to know is why are some of the bosses gigantic like were they born like that or did they become like that

[@square-table-gaming]

the strength of runes increased their size over time

[@kaidbrewster3083]

In my mind it dosent matter who or why we were broufht back because we have the freedom to make our own choices and bring the future in rhe form we choose

[@Bigkumasarmwrestling]

Ok , what if the elden ring is just a cycle , a cycle of life or whatever process the order sees fit

[@Neopulse00]

What armor set what your character using by the way? The one with the white cape. Doesn't look familiar to me.

[@square-table-gaming]

Blaidds armor altered + noble hood

[@floydgoodwyn8912]

I always thought the tarnished were you or who you played as in the other souls games. It never says where "we" were banished

[@olivercromwell1967]

please whats the name of the music in the background?

[@square-table-gaming]

Character Creation music from the Elden Ring OST

[@olivercromwell1967]

@@square-table-gaming Thanks!

[@hhowdy]

Marika wearing the classic somewhat revealing woman’s ware for the time 🤨

[@bigshotneo2343]

I came here after that one doujin.

[@r3gret2079]

How cute. "Badlands.... first round of dlc". Ah, the old days were fun.

[@square-table-gaming]

We were so young

[@The_true_pogchamp]

yess

[@Issac_The_Last_N7]

The Tarnished are immortal and incredibly powerful

[@square-table-gaming]

Not immortal actually, once their grace fades they can't respawn

[@Issac_The_Last_N7]

​@@square-table-gaming Thanks for the quick reply, I love to pretend!

[@sofaking1627]

As a George RR Martin fan, I always kinda assumed that the Tarnished were Godfrey's bastard children. But I have zero evidence 😅

[@korye6324]

So lore wise the tarnished are undying unless killed by another tarnished?

[@square-table-gaming]

Eventually every tarnished becomes killable after their grace fades

[@korye6324]

Ah got it! Many thanks!

[@wolfiemuse]

Incredible art on this one, Pat. I love sexy Marika

[@nonamederzweite408]

we are all just tools in game and in life XD

[@gogetablue1]

i rather praise the sun tho

[@cruxlamar9681]

That thumbnail tho

[@izackholmgren4686]

Marika got em honkers

[@Acesahn]

All the Tarnished being part of Godrey's tribe/warriors doesn't make sense to me as the Tarnished of the Roundtable are made up of people who aren't even warriors. Godfrey and Dungeater could have been, sure but Gold Mask and Fia?

[@TheMrDewil]

This is all good and well, but there's one piece that doesn't fit the puzzle for me. I don't exactly know what's considered cannon and what isn't within the lore, and does early description of items carry any weight, before they were changed. I saw this in one of Vaati's vids, and upon seeing this one it came to mind. The 1.0 description of Guilty Hood that says: "Garb of spurned Tarnished who were forced into slavery in the Lands Between. The Tarnished have been wandering into Lands Between from beyond the Sea of Fog in dribs and drabs since times of old. Most are killed on arrival, but the few, unlucky survivors are taken as slaves". Some crucified figures in Limgrave wear this, so it stands to reason that those are Tarnished. My question is - how does that fit in? Did the Fingers issued a decree of sorts to get rid of Tarnished altogether, before they devised the plan to hijack Marika's plan and reap the results? Did the Tarnished wander into Lands Between at the bad time? Although, scratch that, there's never a good time in Lands Between. All in all, as I've gathered, there's no great love for the Tarnished in Lands Between, if they don't want to kill you, they want to use you. Fingers, Varre, Ranni, Loathsome Dung Eater, Gideon, to name a few, and some of them are Tarnished themselves. Why is that? What exactly Tarnished did in their glory days to become so despised and manipulated?

[@square-table-gaming]

If it's pre-release it's soft cannon unless it contradicts what's in the release version of the game.

[@Acesahn]

One thing that annoys me GREATLY about Fromsoft lore is they make the protagonists and how they work very confusing... DS1 being an undead wasn't that difficult to accept after awhile but DS3 being a "Unkindled" no one really knew what that was or how it was different from an undead or why. Here we are people rejected by grace... who now were given grace to fight the demigods similar to DS3 again... but if we were rejected by grace why didn't the Erdtree/Greater Will just plug us back into the Golden Order/Elden Ring if it was that easy?

[@square-table-gaming]

Because Marika removed our grace, not the Erdtree. Being called by grace is her doing.

[@Acesahn]

@@square-table-gaming So Marika is still behind the grace even in her current state?

[@square-table-gaming]

@@Acesahn yup, she set this plan on motion before the shattering. The little bits of lore we get from Melina at sights of grace tell that story.

[@Acesahn]

@@square-table-gaming Now I'm confused what Grace even is! lol. I'm surprised it can act outside of the Outer Will's wishes... is the Erdtree rogue??

[@bofawhatsbofa4593]

🔥🔥🔥 do a video on How big the Erdtree is

[@square-table-gaming]

According to Zulie it's 16,562 ft.

[@bofawhatsbofa4593]

@@square-table-gaming her video was boring. Yours are more entertaining 👌🏽

[@kknight_artorias]

that thumbnail…

[@robertsoto5713]

But if our character can see the grace are we really tarnished?

[@square-table-gaming]

Yes, we were tarnished and our grace was given back to us. This doesn't mean we're no longer tarnished.

[@robertsoto5713]

@@square-table-gaming oh I see thanks was confused about that.

[@mlmii1933]

Something to consider is that the Grace that was taken from us was returned but it doesn't dwell in our eyes (and perhaps never did per the Keepstake Rune) like it does in everyone else. Makes me wonder what Grace actually is. It can't actually be tied to the Greater Will itself since in following two of the endings we are traitors, either helping Ranni usher in an age governed by her Dark Moon or burning everything for the Frenzied Flame.

[@Carrot-Man1876]

Hi

[@square-table-gaming]

Sup carrot man

[@BlueMustang747]

Tarnished is MIQUELLA :0

[@square-table-gaming]

:0

[@michaelsoftelbows]

what is this, Vaati lite?

[@square-table-gaming]

Nope, we focus on telling the stories of smaller characters and enemies instead of the overarching lore. We get into bigger topics at the request of our audience but we mostly keep it to individual enemy types.

[@weston1074]

You're the best Thank you so much for sharing this with me!! Find out the secret = 'promosm' !