Elden Ring Lore - Miquella, Trina, & The Power of Sleep

[@commie719]

Its absolutely amazing how this video got the "St.Trina is a broken off piece of Miquella" right.

[@square-table-gaming]

Oh you know imma talk about this soon

[@TiberiusRex182]

I think the “abandoning his fate” thing from the dlc trailer could me referring to a bride/groom/marriage partner or intended merger target like Radagon to Marika

[@PhattyPhil]

I think it just means his fate to become a god as an empyrean. Maybe that’s why he was the fiercest, bc he was the most likely to become a god.

[@logancade342]

"Abandoned his fate" could easily mean just "decided to do something different" from whatever Marika, the Greater Will, the stars, whatever had planned.

[@mewinfinity5069]

I heard it as: abandoned his “faith”

[@CrackedConker]

Merger target? Radagon IS Marika. He didn't exist before she manifested him/into him.

[@metalface_villain]

@@PhattyPhil yep and we see st trina cuz he choose to abandoned the fate of becoming a god to become st trina instead and pursue his own goal

[@theiberianbadger0123]

Slight correction: the cookbook for Trina’s items is not “fervor” it’s actually “Fevor.” I think the white mask lad we see in the trailer sleeping in a puddle of Trina Lillies is likely the priest “Fevor”

[@nismobug4076]

You know, that makes sense if you think of fever as a 'fevor(or fever) dream..

[@theiberianbadger0123]

@@nismobug4076 it’s definitely a play on the word, but I think Fevor is actually the name of the priest.

[@AndrewRyan9373]

One thing i would say about Messmer being the one in the cocoon is, in the opening, we see Mohg holding Miquella with the cocoon in the background, we can tell it’s Miquella because of his long braided golden hair. Mohg confirmed that it was Miquella. How would Messmer’s body somehow switch with Miquella, with Miquella somehow becoming the humanoid in the Haligtree. (i mean, i would confirm something that important too, if i was going to devote all that time, blood and resources, into a one singular ‘unidentified’ body) Mohg wouldn’t care about the cocoon and reside within it, if it was someone other than his “dearest Miquella”.

[@square-table-gaming]

It's an interpretation, not necessarily truth

[@ericwalker6477]

“Let’s have fun tearing my theories apart” I fkin love you said that. We simply don’t know and the conversation is fun. I didn’t know this channel existed but I’m glad to be a part of it!

[@square-table-gaming]

Glad you found us! Welcome to the Table!

[@AynenMakino]

I think saint Trina is a part of Miquella that he separated from himself deliberately in order to escape his fate. If his fate was tied to that particular part of him, and he could lock this part of himself into the dream-world, he'd be free from his fate just like Rani freed herself from her's.

[@doodlebop921]

Not a bad point.

[@ICantSplel]

Sleep is a pretty fun mechanic, the sound alone is satisfying. Trolls for example go to sleep in basically one hit of anything sleep infused. Godskins weakness to it is well documented too.

[@twodumbgamers9285]

The color of the butterflies in the trailer is very very close to the color of the bewitching Branch. I have a feeling that those butterflies are an AOE bewitching spell. I also think thats probably where Miquella learned how to bewitch. Used his knowledge and brought it back to the lands between, which is why we find only the brand in the cookbook. Last part is way more speculation but the beginning makes a lot of sense to me hahaha

[@sk8legendz]

Did you notice the golden strands Marika holds in this trailer are the same we see hanging off her hammer in the announcement trailer at 0:51? I was rewatching them all looking for any connections and noticed this I think that golden strand may be the source of her god hood

[@davidfrancisco3502]

One of seven NPCs we see both in the end scene of the story trailer and sleeping in the gameplay trailer must be a priest of St. Trina.

[@Gollum-tu5hq]

Wow - I just realised I've been watching this channel for over a year now - time goes quickly!

[@mrs.johnwinchester420]

Thank you so much for all your videos! I plan to learn more lore before venturing to play the game myself!

[@CrimsonOdachi]

I think Miquella is honestly set up so well because he seems to be the most forthright and "pure" of the empyreans and demigods, despite never appearing directly. We directly know so much of his growth, progression, and motivations in relation to so many other characters that he seems so much more relatable or at least understandable. And I definitely think that's the idea that is meant to be present across the fanbase and in-world NPCs as well. Whatever ending we get with him, I feel like it will be definitely be similarly "pure". Either it will be along the lines of the early cut content and have "all things flourish" with no form of exclusion or caveat. Or it will be the opposite and have some form of all-encompassing destruction. Or perhaps even both with some sort of world-shaping revival.

[@Dracoward]

I have an alternative theory about the cocoon possibly holding Mesmer's body. What if it's still Miquila's body, but his curse was gone after he died. My only reasoning for this is Morgot. After he was defeated, his body was devoid of the omen horns he had previously. My theory is that the curses applied to the gods are not bound to the body, but to the soul. It's possible that when Miquila died, the absence of the curse caused his former body to grow back to the intended size.

[@adriangreen5228]

What if the mark on some of the characters eyes is some sort of “mark of the empyrean”? Ranni has a mark and we never see her human face so she might’ve had one too. Melina possibly is the Gloam eyed Queen and therefore is an empyrean with a mark. We never seen marika, miquella, or malenia’s eyes (Malenia is blind due to rot) so we never see their marks. Food for thought

[@overdrivedrinker8284]

Interesting. I always did wonder what those marks meant, and why Melina and Ranni both had one…

[@SilentiumCivis]

I have a theory that St.Trina is the outer god of sleep that influenced Miquella & the line in the trailer ‘Abandoning his fate’ with St.Trina falling is referring to Miquella using the needle to remove St.Trina’s influence over himself.

[@SilentiumCivis]

I think this also gives weight to the ‘Miquela is Melina theory’ via the reason why Melina is missing her left eye is due to using the needle to remove St.Trina & why we haven’t seen Miquela’s since him missing the same eye would connect the two. Just a theory

[@merleetomlin6218]

ZAK Magnus, a small youtuber and Lore Theorists just theorized that Ghost Flame used to be purple before it was robbed of its power. His evidence comes from the description of Grave Violet which claims to be "the hue of ghost flame." This may link St. Trina to the Godskins, and the Gloam Eyed Queen which I know is already a popular theory, but ZAK Magnus was the first person I see point out the Grave Violet description before and I think may carry some weight. Now, Sleep has its own torch and Ghost has its own torch as well, but what if they used to be one. Sleep and Ghost brought together may equal death, but again, that's just some unhinged speculation, haha.

[@epsiloncentauri6067]

😮

[@merleetomlin6218]

😆

[@thud93factory51]

Man! Square Table Gaming is blowing it out of the park. Together with Vaati and SmoughTown these guys are my holy trinity of Souls Lore. Tomorrow i will be purchasing the DLC!

[@square-table-gaming]

Thank you for putting us up there with the legends

[@tereljones283]

Agreed this is my Elden Souls Trinity aswell

[@jaredelliott1240]

Also love all 3. If you haven't seen him yet check out tarnished archeologist. Honestly been hoping that stg and ta would do a collab for a while

[@square-table-gaming]

@@jaredelliott1240 I would LOVE to collab with another channel. Generally speaking we don't get a whole lot of love in the larger community haha.

[@thud93factory51]

@@square-table-gaming Keep working like this and pretty soon we can see all three discussing lore in a podcast!

[@TheodoricFriede]

There is something about Miquella that I feel like I have never seen anyone mention. It actually relates to Millicent's questline. Gowry seem to think that in order for her to truly flower, she needs to be betrayed by the one she trusts most in the world. If we are to Miquella, what Millicent is to Malenia... what does that mean for Miquella's intentions? Malenia DID flower. She became the 'mother' of the scarlet rot. Did Miquella betray Malenia in some way?

[@Andrei-Rex]

Some people would just bend backwards to make Miquella evil…

[@square-table-gaming]

It's a possibility! We can't know for sure at this point. Every demigod has their own agenda and we shouldn't trust anyone who thinks they know the truth.

[@Andrei-Rex]

@@square-table-gamingyou’re right. I just hope you treat Ranni the same way…

[@metalface_villain]

this is a pretty good theory and it explains a lot and tidies them nicely together. i think st trina is miquella's spirit state, since it appeared and disappeared so suddenly plus all the other tie-ins and i also agree that the hand is messmer who miquella used to help grow his tree. miquella's discarded body is the tree, that's why malenia is touching it waiting for him to come back. messmer is also shown to be inspired by an ancient egyptian deity whose name translates to the one that makes the tree grow properly or something close to that, which makes perfect sense too. the divine towers as a sealing veil seems fitting as well and so does miquella using sleep magic in order to access the shadowlands via the dream. i think this also explains what miyazaki said, that the shadowlands are a real place but that we will also see events of the past there, traveling there through a dream state can explain how that is possible.

[@lukebarroso449]

First of all I wanna say the content is amazing! Been enjoying your vids for months! Next do you think Miquella is actually kind or a master Manipulator? I personally hope he is genuinely kind, but if he isn't, he'll still be one of my favorites for pulling the wool over everyone's eyes

[@square-table-gaming]

I think Miquella likely does deal in a level of manipulation, but his motives may be the "least bad"

[@lukebarroso449]

@@square-table-gaming He is probably my favorite Demigod (aside from Godwyn). I like the idea of him and would like to think of him as an ally rather than enemy. Although I'm not sure how he'll react since we killed his sister, arguably for no reason. Unless that depends on whether we went to the haligtree or not.

[@square-table-gaming]

@@lukebarroso449 I don't think it'll have any bearing on shadow of the Erdtree since it's not a trigger for entering the dlc

[@lukebarroso449]

@@square-table-gaming True i keep forgetting the haligtree is optional. Finally thank you for this conversation and I hope your channel continues to do well!

[@rare9242]

given that the new photo they posted where he looks pretty much 1 to 1 to Griffith from berserk, I think its safe to say he is a manipulator with "noble" intentions

[@necrogenesis1981]

That explains the deathblight swamp, sleep and death are connected.

[@parz373]

We are going to hell, my ladies and gentlemen.

[@MrBedZeppelin]

I will bite, Miquella transitions/grows into St Trina divesting his body in order to allow him to travel to different realms through the dream/spirit world where Ranni, Melina, and Torrent can appear at will sometimes putting tarnished/creatures, to sleep in order to mask/cover their identities. Thanks for the Vid!

[@martnlavoria]

Let me add that James Braid, in his "treatise" about hypnotism was extensively influenced by the "animal magnetism" of Franz Mesmer; i.e. the method of hypnotic sleep he conceived is certainly derived and influenced by the phenomena of 'mesmerism' (*) (which btw translated to our secular linguistic frame of reference -yes, I'm making up terms along the way- we would call it: psychological suggestion). Thus do we find a very interesting nexus between Messmer and St Trina/Miquella. (*) this is very clear since we find books of this guy e.g. titled: 'Neurypnology; or the Rationale of Nervous Sleep Considered in Relation with Animal Magnetism'

[@drakmendoa]

I also think the land of shadows is in the ocean in the middle of the map, as there is still this small cloud in the center of it, that just looks suspicious. And it would be in the shadow of the erdtree, which I think is the real anker for the conceal of this land. One thing I am also thinking of is the thing of sleep. If the land of shadows really is the realm of sleep and can only be reached with a deep slumber: What happens to someone who falls asleep in the realm of shadows? Maybe they die instantly or disappear from the land.

[@joningram9898]

So the Amber Starlight at St. Trina’s hideaway is where Miquella left his fate, I believe at the base of the Haligtree is where he left his flesh. I believe that St. Trina is/has always been Miquella’s “other self” His Radagon if you will. When Miquella divested himself of all that is golden, just as ronni has, he would have also cut his other self out of him. That wild depiction of St. Trina as an adult, to me, is now what she looks like without his influence over her.

[@jasonheath7045]

Recently saw a comment in a different vid talking about new weapon affinities in the dlc, Sleep, Rot, Madness, and Deathblight

[@korye6324]

Read this yesterday and it blew my mind: “There is a common misconception about the curse that afflicts Kindly Miquella. He is not cursed with eternal youth, but with nascency. This means that nothing he starts will ever come to fruition. His Haligtree never grew to rival the Erd Tree, he never cured his sister Malenia, he never revived Godwyn, and he never ushered in his age of compassion. His eternal youth is merely a symbol of his inability to complete anything.”

[@square-table-gaming]

I really like this theory, I have to assume it comes from the "nascent butterfly"

[@Varindran]

I did see someone take a closer look at the model in the cocoon and the ring on the hand is sort of in the shape of snakes. Mogh himself could have put that on or it was there before.

[@jordan9503]

if sleep and the land of shadow are connected and the gloam eyed queen was the previous ruler of the lands between as speculated on in the dlc story trailer her apostles (godskin) are especially susceptible to sleep

[@goldenbough6563]

I think you're right about the hand. If Miquella had to divest himself of all things golden to reach the land of shadow, maybe Messmer had to also. Concerning the land of shadow, in one of the trailers a tarnished says 'The great elden ring was shattered in our home, across the fog, the lands between.' Where is this person at the time of speaking? Wherever he is, a veil of fog separates it and the lands between. Godfrey and the tarnished sailed south after his campaigns were done. My guess is that's where the land of shadow is.

[@TifffanyTaylor]

I love the character select music. But you should squeeze in the dark souls 1 & 3 character selection songs into some of these videos. Just for a little variety. & it will fit your style so well

[@kittentacticalwarfare1140]

Marika most likely did some Berserk eclipse kind of Mcphokery to create the golden order. Miquella renouncing everything golden, gives me hope he wont be just a griffith clone but actually a good guy. Keep in mind Erdtrees need blood to grow, for all we know he used his own blood for the Haligtree unlike his mother. Castle Sol seems to indicate he also wants to make an eclipse happen. Some monuments with Norse Runes found all over the place making references to the eclipse, one recurring rune among them is Haglaz. Haglaz represents the Hail falling from heaven destroying the land, and preparing the soil for new seeds. Also represents Hel, the 9th world of the dead aka The Land of Shadows. Maybe St Trina is a split part he sent to that realm before his main self. This would resonate with a plan Loke and Oden crafted in Norse myths. Knowing the impending downfall, demise and utter destruction of the universe, they plot to send Baldr the good of Truth and Light to Hel's realm. Why, because after every universe dies, only Hel remains. From there when the universe is born anew, no one from the old world survives but Baldr who returns from Hel after Ragnarok. Miquella may have noticed that the golden order was unsustainable and would eventually crumble. Sending himself off to this realm separate from the Lands Between, may allow him to return fully restored(and perhaps even mightier) after everything goes down and the map is clear for a better order to be implemented.

[@danielkubicek1323]

Alrighty, really sort of out there theory, but... what if St. Trina was an Outer God? I know it's odd, but both twins were born cursed, but for some reason, Malenia is the only one of the two influenced by an outer God? And the torch of Trina has that almost lovecraftian appearance. Plus, her sleep/music can, according to the cut content, soothe the influence of the Flame of Frenzy, which is a significant amount of power for a demigod. And perhaps all the research to rid the land of outer gods would be used not to liberate the world entire, but to just allow the one uncontested dominance. Trina's dream influence just has alot of Narlathotep vibes; as in she appears somewhat human if unnerving and has alot of human contact, but clearly has no love for the other outer gods and dwells in a dream land. Anyway, food for thought. Sleep well.😁

[@alexandermorgan5958]

Did we ever go over the evergaols themselves in one of these? There are a lot of strange things with them. I could never figure out what an Ancient Hero of Zamor was doing in the Weeping Peninsula.

[@square-table-gaming]

We talked about him in our video about the Zamor! We tend to get into Evergaols whenever a specific topic is found in one

[@adriangreen5228]

Have y’all thought of doing a finger maidens video? I’ve always been curious about them as there’s not really any living ones in the game. Does every tarnished have their own finger maiden? How does one become a finger maiden? Were they all able to turn runes to strength? Who are the dead ones we do see in the game? and how did one of them become a puppet? Just a thought :)

[@square-table-gaming]

I'd definitely want to explore them. Unfortunately there's so little information I'm not sure what we'd say. I'll keep it in mind though.

[@sandcake]

Very cool video. Interesting. Thank you. Looking forward to the next one!

[@KyuubiWindscar4]

I think we’re gonna find Fevor in the DLC (and I think it’s the masked sleeping NPC in the trailer)

[@malbhet]

I have a theory that the knight character in the dlc trailer is Miquella reborn as an average human. If you listen to what is stated in the trailer for the dlc Miquella divested himself of everything, including his flesh and destiny. Divesting himself of his own flesh is the same as what Ronni did, which would explain why Miquella would no longer be a child or have golden eyes, but blue eyes as an average person. His alter ego St. Trina is most likely a seperate entity as a boss of some sort. I am also convinced now that the woman in the portrait is the gloam eye queen and both Melina and Mesmer are children of both Marika and the gloam eyed queen. My hunch is the Rune of the unborn is connected to that scene when Marika pulled runes out of that corpse.

[@salvahazana7629]

The power of sleep? Huh, wish i knew what that feels like.

[@earningknight2326]

Is there a chance will see anything related to death bed companions? Fia has us enter her dream at the end of her quest line, and I personally see a lot of similarities between the baldichin’s blesing and the vail over the (for lack of a better name) shadow tree.

[@rexwest4532]

That can’t be Mesmers hand, for all we know he never entered the lands between

[@AegisKHAOS]

Can't tear a theory apart when, in the end, we don't know. ;p

[@jacobkindsvatter4055]

I dont understand how he is in a caccoon at moghs palace, and also in the shadow realm at the same time

[@square-table-gaming]

Honestly, it's not explained in the least

[@captainlovebug]

Wait. Doesn't Rani go into a deep sleep at one point in her quest line? Could she be communing with St. Trina?

[@parz373]

In the trailer, didn't they mention about a ancient love affair. I wonder how that would connect to messmer and miquila. Sorry for my spelling mistake.

[@YRO.]

It's radahn and miquella

[@adamkorzon2972]

Looks like the cacoon cadaver is burned.And also godwyn grows even when dead.

[@square-table-gaming]

Miquella as far as we know didn't burn himself, seems counter productive to his Haligtree

[@kiwiboy1988]

WE ARE SO BACK

[@Nicoseilas]

What if miquella and st trina are two people in one body like marika and radagon?

[@ericp3985]

Still and always will be the best lore channel💪

[@square-table-gaming]

[@ETBrooD]

12:09 How do we know that Messmer existed long before Miquella's birth?

[@doodlebop921]

It only makes sense. He is the one who makes this conquest in whatever the shadowland use to be.. he’s probably Marika’s firstborn, but we’ll find out soon

[@square-table-gaming]

The conquering of the land of shadows happened before Marika was a god.

[@ETBrooD]

​@@square-table-gaming I'm not sure if we can know that, it could be the other way around. And even if it were true that she became a god only after the war, that wouldn't tell us at which point she conceived Miquella. Sounds entirely speculative to me.

[@square-table-gaming]

@@ETBrooD it's said in game definitely that Marika is a god. The official description of the dlc states that Marika became a god and Mesmer burned down the land of shadow for her. To interpret the timeline any other way would be ignoring and disregarding a LOT of in-game definitive evidence

[@ETBrooD]

@@square-table-gaming But it doesn't say when she became a god, before or after the war. There's also no information as to when Miquella was born. We only know Marika had a child with Radagon. This could've happened at literally any point after they had met.

[@SMLL-crow]

Wild speculation but, could an eclipse be also described as a dark moon?

[@theus__]

Great video 👍 can’t wait for the dlc

[@paulbonham6896]

The hand in the cocoon to me doesn't resemble that of a child. If it's Mezmer's hand, it would make more sense.

[@joelhemphill1968]

If it’s Messmer’s arm, does Mohg know or does he think it’s Miquella?

[@square-table-gaming]

I'd assume Mohg has no idea

[@kyletreshnell219]

Love your videos!

[@JaysJinxed]

new miquella story??

[@Noxa9]

So messmer is potentially miqs kid not merikas?!? This could make since is promised consort also has flowing red hair.but that doesn't explain the snakes messmer has....either way piecing together the lore an time lines is fun

[@square-table-gaming]

Definitely not. It's confirmed in-game that Messmer's mother is Marika

[@Noxa9]

@@square-table-gaming oh yea I haven't seen a bunch of the new dlc, my bad ^-^

[@ValyeriasCorner]

yea I'm binging on you're vids today lol such great videos, thanks again :P Im hoping you cover Romina, Saint of The Bud, i do not get her lol (Im getting my butt kicked by her as i type lol)

[@square-table-gaming]

Ideally I'm going to cover everything from Shadow of the earth tree eventually. Right now I'm trying to do two videos per week but I'm definitely not going to be able to keep up and we'll probably go back to one per week eventually

[@djj949]

Good stuff

[@Ang3lD0wn]

What if St Trina ain't Miquella alter ego at all? The Elden Ring community is gona collapse if that's true 😂 Keep up the good work

[@silvercri3356]

Didn’t Miyazaki confirm that the hand outside the cocoon was miquella’s?

[@square-table-gaming]

He did the opposite actually. He said, "this does have some relation to Miquella," without stating it was Miquellas hand. The entire response to the question was very cagey and careful not to flat out say, "This is Miquella's hand."

[@wolfbane7497]

Player's : " yeah right how is he so powerful he's just a little femboy he can't be the strongest. " Me : " well look at it like this the dude was able to grow a pseudo Erd tree. By basically feeding it his own blood throughout the course of its life. And if it had truly manifested into a tree it will be opposition to the golden order. an obvious threat and also think about this he is more than capable in his Saint Trina form in protecting people who are under his protection

[@Green_loso]

Nice , nice 👍

[@nismobug4076]

I think Empyreans represent hermaphrodotic plants and each Empyrean are either androgynous or have the ability to become either/or, which is extremely common in the vegetable kingdom... Lol. Vegetable kingdom.. Its early: im not changing it 😂😂😂

[@falgalhutkinsmarzcal3962]

Part of me believes that becoming St. Trina is the "fate" that Miquella abandoned, and that he has not become St Trina yet. For one, Miyazaki does not say they are two different characters, but two "different existences". Maybe Miquella's fate was to become St Trina, much as Godwyn's fate was to become the Prince of Death, but something went wrong, just as it did with Godwyn. Maybe Miquella was supposed to become St Trina to wield the power to calm the Frenzied Flame, and put it to sleep. After all, the Frenzied Flame is still stirring throughout the Lands Between, from the Weeping Peninsula to the Consecrated Snowfields. Another point of interest is the Amber Egg. The Juvenile Scholar's set says that "rebirth was as sleep" to the scholars, and they, of course, grow young again when using the Amber Egg, so perhaps Sleep is a means of rebirth for not only the scholars, but Miquella, the Godskins, the latter of whom are born from godskin swaddling. An interesting note that ties Rebirth, Sleep, Snakes, and Godskins together is that when we fight the Great Serpent Rykard is asleep and only wakes when we kill the Great Serpent.

[@nbmoleminer5051]

👍

[@sinenomine3449]

Holy shitttt bruhhhhh, can I make a cameo? What about a podcast?

[@square-table-gaming]

What do you mean?

[@epiccthulu]

I really think Miquella is the eldest child, having gold hair so he predates the war against the fire giants. Malenia and Mesmer, however, have the same colored hair as Radagon. And his hair was said to be red after the fire giants cursed Marika

[@square-table-gaming]

Miquella can't be the eldest. He is Malenias twin and they are confirmed to have been the last demigods born to Marika.

[@epiccthulu]

@@square-table-gaming Then why does he NOT have red hair like his twin? Don’t let the golden order fool you. All demigods born after Marika defeated the fire giants and took the fel god down have had red hair. Except Miquella? Think, my friend, think!

[@TheUnrelatable]

It states in game that they’re twin prodigies. I think that can be taken at face value. I dunno about you, but there’s no point in calling them twins if they didn’t share the same womb at the same time. Fraternal twins are not identical twins and can have different hair colour. Also, it doesn’t definitively state that Radagon’s hair is from the curse, it says “perhaps,” it was from the curse. The more likely reason for his red hair is due to Primordial Gold, which is red hued. The following is taken from the description of Ordovis’ Greatsword - Greatsword of Ordovis, one of the two honored as foremost among the Crucible Knights. This sword is imbued with an ancient holy essence. Its red tint exemplifies the nature of primordial gold, said to be close in nature to life itself. - The giants curse is a red-herring (massive pun intended). If anything is going to be revealed as a twist, it’ll be revealed that Radagon predates Marika. Given that primordial gold came before gold, it would only make sense for Radagon to have taken the golden strands (hair? Fabric of time?) in the story trailer and that’s what gave him the ability to become Marika. I mean, the character in the intro to that trailer had the physique of a young man and the hair had a reddish hue to it.

[@gameframeinc]

Here before 1k views. 👁️