EV Startups Ditching Direct Sales; U.S. Battery Production Surging - Autoline Daily 3718

[@JohnPMiller]

Chevy Bolt also qualifies for Colorado $5K tax credit. $15K for a new EV? That's quite a deal!

[@heathwirt8919]

It certainly is.

[@stickynorth]

Those are the discounts needed to get the working class into this generation of EV's....

[@rp9674]

That was 20K after incentives can I check the list price, you'll be lucky to get it for that

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

Only one Problem: Its a Government Motors vehicle.

[@rp9674]

This just in, Chevy addressed the minor battery issues months ago most bolts got a new battery free. Best deal

[@KJSvitko]

Legacy auto dealers are a nightmare for legacy auto makers. They gouged customers trying to buy electric vehicles. Legacy auto dealers abused their customers by adding market price adjustments to gouge their customers for EVs They added pricey add ons and other costs to pump up the prices and their profits. Tesla has the right idea. Buy online. No hassle. No sitting in a show room for hours. No salesman BS. No crazy markups. No I have to see my manager BS. With Tesla you can buy a vehicle in 5 minutes or less online. The dealers have no one to blame but themselves. The dealers are dragging the legacy auto makers down with them.

[@davidbeppler3032]

Those EV builders can't sell. They just want to move production to the dealer lots so it is on their books and not Fisker/Vinfast books.

[@howebrad4601]

Yeah if your happy with the bland boring appliances tesla makes. They look like Kermit the frog from the front.

[@KJSvitko]

@@howebrad4601If you want the fastest, or the safest or the most technologically advanced vehicles then Tesla has you covered. Highest safety ratings of any manufacturer.

[@DeLorean4]

Why would Ford drop prices on top trim levels and increase prices on the base? Someone going into the dealer planning to buy a Platinum certainly has the money to buy a 100k truck (they don't need the help). This strategy will only drop volumes further, and make it harder for normal folks to get into EV pickups.

[@larrys5198]

Like he said, they raised prices on the ones that still get the credit,, and lowered the ones that don't. It's a shell game.

[@erktrek]

Sounds like Vinfast and Fisker are trying to offload their vehicles. Good luck prospective dealers!

[@davidbeppler3032]

Yep, that was what I heard too. The dealers are going to get screwed on this deal.

[@MircoWilhelm]

After driving a Fisker last month I can say it also struggles to make it's car functionally acceptable. Not much fun driving a BEV if half the features are't working yet.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

Fisker will likely be out of business in 18 months, will be bought by a Chinese auto company.

[@MircoWilhelm]

@@BTC_Minarchist No idea about that. The car itself was ok, as expected from a Magna build. Just the software was missing quite a bit. And since the whole ting runs on software, that dampens the experience a lot.

[@jb5music]

More Republican elitists entrepreneurs heading up an intentionally fail prone EV manufacturing venture... with their diamond plated six figure spaceship boondoggles.

[@wooddavid8293]

Pickup truck prices being raised? They aren't selling the ones on the lot now - likely because of high prices.

[@onenickthomas]

The summary for today's episode.. "Irony"

[@golfish8589]

This episode is quite a change from the previous 6 months when all you could talk about was BEV sales slowing

[@BTC_Minarchist]

The narrative was disproved (like many others).

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

There never was a BEV sales slowing. Nowhere. On the whole wide mudball.

[@Tokamak3.1415]

Remember that all those batteries are going to be used for additional items besides only automotive uses. Stationary battery systems in homes and large scale realtime grid connect systems are going to be needed as well, so the glut may never end up materializing. The only glut will be the partially failed cells that don't have industry standardization so it becomes economically difficult to find next life uses for them - especially when there is little logistical support to transport them to ed users in an efficient manner.

[@juliahello6673]

Only Tesla has the integrity to stick with what’s right even if it hurts them. I was hoping that EV makers would have the courage to stand up to the dealer mafia.

[@heathwirt8919]

Sticking to what's right? Like the worst build quality in the industry, blaming customers for premature suspension and drivetrain failures, overselling Fake Self Driving as Full Self Driving etc.

[@mikafiltenborg7572]

Dealerships = stealerships😎

[@stickynorth]

Either way the corporations and not consumers are currently winning. Selfish cash grabs are slowing down the EV revolution.

[@bobbybishop5662]

The word integrity and Tesla do not belong in the same sentence.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

@@heathwirt8919 The topic is dealerships. Try to move away from your list of tired and fake news talking points...I know it will take some effort.

[@itsatrap7215]

VW 2017: we have a great battery breakthrough VW 2020: we have a great battery breakthrough VW 2013: we have a great battery breakthrough

[@Paul-cj1wb]

Don't forget about Toyota and their solid state yearly proclamations. Legacy doesn't understand technology. That's because their founders are long gone. They're led by nothing more than pencil pushers. They'll never catch Tesla, or Rivian.

[@CSHarvey]

"Theres going to be a glut of EV batteries, with 1000GWH of batteries by 2030.” Thats enough for 10M BEVs, globally. US auto sales for 2023 were projected to reach 15M and thats recovering from 17M pre-pandemic. Global autosales is around 40M. Tesla alone is planning for 2,000GWH by 2030. So yeah, 1,000GWH not only isnt a glut, its not hardly enough.

[@ChicagoBob123]

Ford cuts production and increases prices. When does the going out of business sale start?

[@Zedus-rl9hp]

Things are looking increasingly worse for Fisker. Although they delayed the market launch and reduced production numbers several times, they don't seem to be getting the vehicles to customers. The many advertisements don't seem to help much either. And what you're slowly hearing is that some buyers don't even want to take over the half-finished vehicle and the first few owners are probably annoyed with the car and have already sold it again. Customers no longer forgive such inconsistencies; the pioneering work was done a few years ago and customer demands have increased. QuantumScape had already made many promises and published questionable documents with cherry picking - alomost made the "Trevor". That's why I only believe them when they can give real technical specs with well-founded data. Furthermore, a solid-state battery must first prove that it offers real advantages in practice - many promises have already been made here, such as "non-flammable", "cheap", etc., but there is no basis for these statements.

[@heathwirt8919]

Thanks for propagating Musk/Tesla propaganda. Your fearless leader is very proud.

[@Zedus-rl9hp]

@@heathwirt8919 what your are talking??? No part of my comment is about Tesla! Either you made a mistake or you're seriously screwed

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@heathwirt8919 Thanks for the comment. Elon needs your support. Keep preaching the Anti Tesla, we need you to lie and deceive so that other EVs can sell to less intelligent people. We need to sell every EV built, not just the good ones!

[@snookmeister55]

@@heathwirt8919 He's in your head

[@snookmeister55]

"Battery experts predict" thanks for the laugh

[@outkast40]

Really foolish to sell cars through a dealer with mark-ups while Tesla sells direct with no mark-ups .

[@liosh2]

Ford still has a dealer problem, $30,000.00 dealer markups on the Lightning

[@krafter324]

The Ocean is a great vehicle outside of software fixes they are working on. I don't blame them for partnering with Dealers with no haggle pricing. Better for customers too to get locations up and running much quicker than building centers.

[@outkast40]

No Haggle pricing ? The dealers will have their profits baked into the price . Just buy a Tesla and avoid the sales trap .

[@michaelmaruzzelli2522]

Happy New Sean and welcome back. While you were off there was a video by Butter da Insider about how a Mississippi dealer took an order from a deployed GI for a Demon 170 and sold the car just before he was having it picked up. Tim Kuniskis is now involved. I hope you check it out and let your subscribers know about it. Keep up the great reporting.

[@JohnPMiller]

He's still the same, old Sean.😉 Happy New Year to both of you!

[@nickmcconnell1291]

There ya go. Anyone not selling direct cannot compete on price for a similar vehicle. They will always be paying a middleman. They are dooming themselves unless they are selling something unique. Brand means NOTHING in the age of EVs. The public has already seen how past trusted brands have failed to deliver the EV goods. Therefore trading on your brand in the EV market is defunct.

[@davidbeppler3032]

Except Tesla.

[@stickynorth]

You know there's going to be a massive glut in batteries when an undisclosed Japanese battery maker is planning on building a $1.6B factory in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada and it doesn't even ripple beyond local news... But it makes sense.. WInnipeg is the Wichita of Canada hence why our biggest busmaker New Flyer is HQ'd there...

[@heathwirt8919]

That glut should bring down prices, a good thing.

[@brianwaldo2642]

You can add the two battery plants to be built in Ontario, one for Stellantis and the other for VW.

[@_PatrickO]

Everyone is building battery factories in north america due to the US ev tax credit and other trade rules.

[@howebrad4601]

Us taxpayer is subsidizing plants in Canada? Is that correct?

[@brianwaldo2642]

@@howebrad4601 No, Canadian taxpayers are to the tune of $28.2B.

[@Mrbfgray]

"Anticipated demand for BEVs" by 2030 is way too low.

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

Its not more than 1.5% in 2030. Fer Sure. In Nigeria, Venezuela, Yemen…

[@davidbeppler3032]

By 2030 any company building ICE won't even be able to give the cars away. Right now gas prices are dropping because EVs are surging. Claiming it was because Sleepy Joe has triple oil production in America was just BS.

[@marsspacex6065]

Why do these EV startups think they can do in 1 year what it took Tesla a decade to build.

[@heathwirt8919]

Took tesla two decades.

[@frankcoffey]

@@heathwirt8919 It's true the company started in 2003 but they didn't have a mass produced car until 2012. It is amazing they survived at all and now they are leading the entire industry in technology. Most of the technology in the Cybertruck won't show up in other brands for decades.

[@heathwirt8919]

@@frankcoffey Tesla turned a profit in it's 18 year in business. Not really a great track record. They are now second in sales but no longer lead in technology.

[@williamsmith5462]

It's not possible to lead in a technology in a country where the majority of people refuse to support the change in behavior and supporting the technology.

[@stickynorth]

Because they're all in the sh*thouse now, pal! Aka they are all scrambling to figure out their vision of the future while Tesla and now BYD cut through the competition like a hot knife through butter... When it's scariest to try, that's when you double down... That's why those two companies practically played it to the bone financially through early huge losses to now reap the benefits of knowing how to design, assemble, market and sell a working EV to the masse... Also why you see players like VW trying to cut their own losses and just buy their way out of the tech gap hole they find themselves in all while shifting production to low-cost jurisdictions in Eastern Europe, Asia and the Americas to try and become profitable.. Good luck!

[@realazduffman]

Sounds like it is time to get rid of the EV tax subsidies for the rich.

[@mymelt1770]

Called for a Geico quote, rep in CA was not familiar with the CT…no underwriting for it in the system last week😬

[@JohnPMiller]

I'd be interested to know how Tesla Insurance quotes compare to classic insurers.

[@kevtheobald]

​@@JohnPMiller I went with Tesla insurance when I bought my Model 3 because it was about 5% cheaper than Wawanessa. Which is sad because I had home and out with them, which in theory gave me more of a discount. I like the idea of manufacturers doing insurance. So far have heard mixed reviews on claims processing with Tesla insurance. More good than bad.

[@danharold3087]

@@kevtheobald Seem to recall Tesla is using other companies for the insurance. That may account for the variation.

[@JohnPMiller]

Geico offers a (8%?) discount to Berkshire Hathaway shareholders (minimum one share). I'm surprised that Geico wasn't ready for the CT launch. [Neither investment nor insurance advice.]

[@mymelt1770]

@@JohnPMiller 1st I heard of this on the -8%. Online quote calculator showed no listing for CT…checked before calling rep.

[@jordanschultz2232]

Fisker is drowning above water.. they haven't even touched the pool yet. They have launch editions for sale

[@teslamr7333]

The shorts in QS are running for cover.

[@lordinquis8r679]

Sean, your gM sales figures appear to be deliberately misleading. They consider a “sale”, a delivery to the dealer, not the customer.

[@davidbeppler3032]

If the company moves it, they don't care if the dealer can't sell it. That is the problem for the bank and the dealer. Not GM. Lots of Dealers are about to have whole floorplans repoed and sold at auction. Auctions are already glut with cars that will not sell for what lenders demand. They just keep recycling. Brand new 2021 cars are still in the mix with used cars with tons of damage!

[@davidmccarthy6061]

That's standard everywhere. LG counts their TVs out the door and the end consumer sales is out of their control and Best Buy has to deal with that. How else could you count it?

[@lordinquis8r679]

⁠@@davidmccarthy6061, other commenters have clarified those points that unsold inventory is stacking up by the millions. My point of comparison is Tesla, where there is no sale until the vehicle is driven away by the customer. It’s a much more honest system that partially explains why people buy Teslas.

[@dusty-vo8gh]

So Fisker does not build cars or own the factories and now they won't own the sales Chanel. Going straight to global sales was a mistake.

[@Paul-cj1wb]

What no one wants to say in the main media regarding oil is that EV's have taken out 5 million barrels of oil per day worldwide including China and it's high EV uptake, the high uptake in Europe, and the 8% and growing exponentially (by 50% per year) in the US. That offsets, by far, all the OPEC production cuts.

[@howebrad4601]

Good, then pricing pressure for gas will ease for those of us that need an ice vehicle

[@Paul-cj1wb]

@@howebrad4601 That's right. And they'll keep displaying more and more by the year. US should be at 12% minimum EV uptake by the end of next year. Europe is at 22% now, so they should be close to 30% by then. And China could be at 40%. Those are the world's 3 leading oil consumers. So yeah, oil demand will peak around 2027. If it hasn't already. And that can only mean cheaper gas prices. Of course, the oil markets will play with it as much as they can, and can raise prices. But only for so long.

[@LeesChannel]

Who was that auto CEO that crashed an exotic sports car and fled from the scene maybe 12-20 years ago? I think embezzlement may have been involved too, it was a big scandal that I remember reading about on Engadget, but I can't find it. I keep thinking for some reason that it was Fiskar but I can't find anything related to what I'm looking for, it may have been another start-up.

[@jonitan76]

it was Fisker. Henrik Fisker. He sold the company to a chinese investor. and then build this EV start up. Fool Me once shame on you (Fisker), fool me twice shame on me (buyers). any one buying this Fisker EV is a fool. lol

[@LeesChannel]

I found what I was looking for! It wasn't an auto CEO, it was Stefan Eriksson, Director of Gizmodo Europe, who crashed an Enzo Ferrari in 2006 so hard it ripped the vehicle in half. It turned out later he was a member of the Swedish mafia. Over the years the Gizmondo shenanigans got mixed up with the Fiskar shenanigans 😆.

[@rp9674]

GM should have continued Bolts

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

GM should have continued building mid sized to small, decent and workable cars.

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@wolfgangpreier9160 GM paid tens of millions to make SUVs the vehicle of choice for America to avoid NHTSA and CAFE. Why would they waste that money building cars that they advertised against? You want a GM car, then you want an overpriced SUV that burns more gas.

[@danharold3087]

@@wolfgangpreier9160 They lost the recipe several decades ago. Instead of fixing the problem the build expensive pickups.

[@CSHarvey]

The Bolt as we know it was obsolete platform in 2018. It needed overhauled. Which is what GM supposedly was doing by moving it to the Ultium platform. Except now they're not doing that, just keeping the old Bolt but shoving LFP batteries into it.. I dunno. GM seems lost.

[@_PatrickO]

@@CSHarvey The current bolt was a compliance car to subsidize gas guzzlers. It was cancelled the very second cafe rules changed so its mpge counts at 130mpge instead of something like 390mpge. Every bolt enabled gm to sell multiple gas guzzlers without paying for regulatory credits. This is why the bolt was so efficient, gm needed it to be efficient as possible, so they paid lg chem to make batteries and motors. GM has no clue how to make efficient EVs. Any new bolt based on "ultium" is going to suck like all of GMs terrible "ultium" EVs.

[@PrincessTS01]

It's too bad gas still costs more than $5 a gallon in California it is hurting the economy.

[@howebrad4601]

Are these pickup mfg insane. They are raising prices when it appears there is already a huge supply of vehicles on their lots? I sense they are raising prices so they can offer larger deals, thinking they can fool people to think they are getting a deal. I own 2 pickuos and used to trade out one every 2 years but i refuse to pay what i paid for a house only 20 years ago.

[@CasperChicago]

Fisker has much less of a chance surviving than Rivian! Maybe some company will buy Fisker out and put them into the black??

[@Bryanbkk]

What is the best selling car of 2023?

[@davidbeppler3032]

GM missed the 50% growth. That is sad. GM can't grow sales 50% year over year. Going bankrupt. Burning cash.

[@timotaneous3300]

SDVs will create long money due to monthly premiums they will charge in addition to your car payment. Eventually pure profit for years

[@trainman9119]

Look at it this way. Dell Computers did sell only direct but they also started selling via dealers some years ago and Michael Dell isn’t dumb.

[@danharold3087]

The experience of buying a car at a dealership and a computer at a computer store are light years apart.

[@howebrad4601]

Despite the added layer in the sales channel, by focusing on only specific tasks instead of having to be good at all functions simultaneously, stratified go to market methods can develop other efficiencies and strengths that make up for the added layer. End of the day each function has a legit need, so either mfg develop divisions to do the selling functions, or they Enlist dealers that are already setup

[@Derpy1969]

Only TWO EV startups are going to sell by Dealers: FISKER and Vinfast. And Fisker is “in addition to” direct sales. Neither are huge. And Vinfast is… not great. Fisker is running out of money. Nobody else is. Polestar already had a dealer network tied to Volvo. So don’t exaggerate.

[@JJSmith-x2l]

Of course, EV sales are up in California. They are trying to go all EV in their state and even grtting ready to sign a bill. I really doubt it will happen, though, but it makes sense to buy an EV now while it's cheaper. I guarantee you that when they take away the incentive incentives, people will stop buying EVs as much.

[@ltkwok]

Lease a Bolt!

[@CSHarvey]

Or just buy a used one. Cheaper up front, same monthly cost, no mileage restrictions, and you still have a car after three years.

[@bugguy1967]

Guidehouse?? 😅 The same ones that came up with that backwards autonomy leaderboard?? 🤡

[@kevtheobald]

I am sure as soon a quarter or month has lower EV sales many will start shouting about the death of EVs. China and Europe are well on their way to changing to EVs. EV tech is raidly improving, charging stations are growing at very rapid rate. By 2028, I believe mist UD buyers will see an EV option that makes sense for them. When 2030 is done, 70% of new vehicle sales in the US will be EVs.

[@CarterEdison777]

Not enough lithium in the world dude! John stossel went over this

[@howebrad4601]

Well then you should be happy. All I ask is not to be forced into a useless ev for my driving needs out in rural America. Ev makes some sense for avg homeowner/commuter in populated area, but they are still totally impractical for a pickup owner that uses it as a real pickup.

[@chrisg8995]

SDVs,… you mean just another thing Tesla has forced the entire auto industry to pivot to?

[@PrincessTS01]

i bought a jeep in 2023

[@Dkrpan59]

Autoclog

[@2cartalkers]

Fisker and Vinfast are losery with their decisions and are just out to screw their customers. Now both are on my No Buy list.

[@davidbeppler3032]

They can't sell the cars to customers. Might as well sell them to dealerships. It will get them off the books. That is the goal. Dealerships will get screwed, but who cares about dealerships?

[@2cartalkers]

You are probably correct but the dealer body if they see they are losing money will go crying to their bought and paid for politicians and get some kind of subsidy or bailout. The only real losers will be us, the taxpayers.@@davidbeppler3032

[@normbittner3762]

Is it just me but are cars and the automotive industry becoming boring and monotonous? Ev this and battery that, tax credit this and charging station that, etc.

[@stickynorth]

It's you... Before that was horsepower that, RPM this... The language and business of cars is very boring and monotonous... This ain't Motor Trend...

[@BTC_Minarchist]

@@stickynorth Well stated

[@normbittner3762]

Fair enough, all the new technology is showing my age I guess- it's now for the gen Z'ers and Millennials lol@@stickynorth

[@bobbbobb4663]

Suspension failures are not monotonous! 2.5%! Celebrate the Wompy Wheels!

[@BTC_Minarchist]

@@bobbbobb4663 I think you might be thinking of this... Decade-long data fraud at Daihatsu (Owned by Toyota) shakes trust: Safety tests rigged for 64 car models across 3 nations, potentially risking millions. Brakes, airbags compromised. Whistleblowers reveal scheme, halting production & triggering global recalls. Reputational, financial fallout imminent. Industry under tighter scrutiny as investigations roll on.

[@GROW_YOUTUBE_VIEWS_m043]

I love the passion in your videos.

[@anastassiosperakis2869]

The "increased' units sold in 2023 are still PITIFULLY LOW if you compare them to the 17 million+ a year that were sold in 2008 or so, for several years, when the US population was probably FIFTY MILLION LESS than it is today, and its licenced drivers LIKEWISE. SO if 2023 was TRULY a good year, sales should be 25 million, and not 15!

[@Harrythehun]

People are poor and cars are expensive.

[@anastassiosperakis2869]

People may finally WISED UP to the fact that only suckers buy NEW. I know people with a net worth of $12-15 million who have never bought a new car after 1991. I know them very well.@@Harrythehun

[@davidmenasco5743]

It's partly a reflection of the true state of the economy. But I think it's also partly a reflection of the automakers' strategy: Sell fewer vehicles with higher margins. In other words, as I've mentioned before, No Small Cars Allowed. The margins are bigger on big trucks and SUVs, so they just stop selling anything else. People make like there's no demand for small cars. My own hypothesis is that the sales numbers would still be where they used to be, if small cheap cars were available. I believe that sales gap, is where the small cars would be. Automakers aren't interested in "break even" sales when it would just take away from their high-margin sales.

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@Harrythehun Tesla Model 3 is less expensive than a FREE NEW Honda Accord over the life of the vehicle. How much cheaper do cars have to be? ICE needs to start giving away 500 gallons of gas a year if they want to compete with EVs.

[@Harrythehun]

@@davidbeppler3032 I own two EVs. But still all cars are expensive and people are poor or soon going to be kicked from work due to the accelerating digitalisation and robotication and death of stores and higher crime rates.

[@anastassiosperakis2869]

The Bolt ONLY QUalifies for the $7,500 tax credit ONLY if you are dirt-poor. Under the latest Laws, your income should be below a VERY LOW THRESHOLD to qualify. But if you are some poor bastard living on your meager Social Security alone, then you qualify, and it may actually make sense to you, if you rarely take long trips, and you do not demand excellence in Exterior and especially Interior styling and luxury, to get one of these, and PRAY GM will not ask you (As it DID ask some prior owners) to park it more than 50 feet from any other car.

[@stickynorth]

Even the poor in America should have access to EV's... Actually scratch that... ESPECIALLY the poor... They could/should benefit the most from the cost savings since they have to scrimp and save and sometimes steal for every little bit they have... I know, I am one!

[@BTC_Minarchist]

I think they changed the incentives this year. It's now a POS credit and you can benefit, even if you will pay less than the $7500 in taxes. This is better for the lower income buyers.

[@davidbeppler3032]

@@BTC_Minarchist Yep. If you can stand the Bolt and all it's recalls.

[@udokafestus5433]

Car dealers will soon learn the hard way that EVS are their enemy

[@davidbeppler3032]

What dealership is hustling to sell Tesla?

[@danharold3087]

They already know. No servicing and if you piss off the customer he orders a tesla.

[@flodjod]

if Fisker cannot sell itself why would you want to buy it