Steve's 6mm Creedmoor Rifle for Backpack Hunting - The Experience Project [EXP005]

[@ALindco]

Steve - I appreciate you taking the time to share this, because we all know you don’t have to, but want to. I’ve listened to all the podcasts you made with Form and found them to be some of the best content concerning bullets and how they kill.

[@strathunter14]

Thanks Steve! I hope these hunts will be filmed so we can enjoy them with you 🙂. Good luck!

[@ExoMtnGear]

Yes, they will all be filmed. We are looking forward to sharing the adventures.

[@Morinehtur]

​​​@@ExoMtnGear I have enjoyed watching your journey to learn and dial in your equipment choices. I do have a question regarding bullet choice: Aren't their States that require an expending bullet? Unless I am mistaken Colorado is one of them. Is the ELDM controlled expansion? Do you switch to ELDX or the solid copper that your barrel likes? 2024 Colorado Big Game LEGAL METHODE OF TAKE section 1 Center Rifles.. . Part D Must use expanding bullets that weigh...

[@clunesadventures]

Great video Steve! That Podcast #469/470 with Form was very eye opening for me. It took some hard shots at my core beliefs past down over the years, but it all made sense. So much so, I will likely end up with a smaller cailber/cartridge for next season (too late to change now). I look forward to seeing your results.

[@ExoMtnGear]

Thank you and glad to hear you were open to new ideas and challenging your beliefs. Sometimes we get so stuck in what we think we know we stop paying attention and ignore anything that goes against them. Good luck on your hunts! - Steve

[@Duckhunterbow]

Tip your tripod head over and put your rear bag on there and see if that works for you to get around the cant issue. I use the ultralight ones from LS wild. I used the LS bag off the top of a tripod with a smaller than 6 creed caliber last year on my mule deer and he was down in seconds. Maybe ran 40 yards total.

[@Cody.P]

Why did you decide on the ELDm vs the ELDX? If I remember correctly Form said both work well so I am just curious.

[@snoop2477]

That's awesome Steve. The MTN Gear bipod is an awesome addition. I think it possibly the lightest bipod in the market. Certainly quality engineering and materials. Mine slots in the top pocket of the Exo pack, ready to roll when needed. I've found it great for shooting at steep angles given the versatility. It's absolutely hunting stable with a good position and back rest - all points you covered off really well

[@edwardhoward4708]

You could make a very strong argument for light rifles or bow/arrow being effective hunting tools if you can tell us what percentage we’re dead right there, aka instant or near instant kill. It does seem like a light rifle would be perfect for precise headshots.

[@madwe2269]

I think it'll be very interesting to see how this goes. I would love to find pictures of wound channels somewhere after the hunts, especially the moose. I feel like everyone knows the origin of the partition, I think the comparison between that story and the possible outcomes of a 100 something gr thin jacketed 6mm will be interesting

[@ExoMtnGear]

We will be filming all of the hunts and will not hide the results, in fact we plan to do specific videos as we skin the animals and break down what we are seeing. - Steve

[@madwe2269]

@@ExoMtnGear that is exactly what I was hoping for

[@yo2stix]

Head over to rokslide and read the forms and photos. Lots of evidence of small calibers.

[@claytonbruner1808]

@@ExoMtnGear I took a 162gr ELD-X to Africa last year. My PH's first comment was "my tracker is going to be busy this week". 1st shot opportunity was a Blue Wildebeest at 230yds. 1 shot, no tracking. 9 animals later (including a 711yd shot on an Nyala) I'd convinced him that shot placement and bullet design go hand in hand. If you're using an exploding pill-put it where that explosion benefits you the most. 6mm on a mtn goat is more than sufficient if you've doped it at all the ranges you're willing to shoot an animal at.

[@AK_JED]

Great listen! do you have any concern being in grizzly country in Alaska with a 6 creed? Do you feel the 108 ELD-M would be adequate for protection against a grizzly if needed?

[@ExoMtnGear]

This was answered in a follow-up Q&A podcast here: exomtngear.com/blogs/podcast/mm-239

[@charlesking4291]

Wondering why you choose ELD-M match bullets ? Thought for hunting there’s ELD-X ? Have I got that wrong ??

[@ExoMtnGear]

We have used ELD-X bullets with a lot of success as well. To hear the background on why ELD-M and why 6mm CM, start here: the-experience-project.com/small-calibers-for-big-game-hunting-part-1/. There are follow-up episodes to that Part 1, so keep tuning-in if you want to hear more.

[@nothingbutnut2767]

Considering your mention of likelihood to utilize the bi-pod: if someone is really trying to shave weight on their rifle build, would you still recommend having a bipod or ditching it and being more reliant on alternative methods? Quick-stix, backpack, dedicated shooting bag rest

[@ExoMtnGear]

If we had to pick one shooting support, it would be Trekking Poles with Wiser Quick-StiX. If a lightweight bipod isn't in your budget, or you don't want to pack one, shooting off of a pack is doable. Just be sure to practice how you hunt.

[@nothingbutnut2767]

@@ExoMtnGear thanks for the response! I’m building out an AR10 for multiple purposes. Hunting being one of them. Weight of the rifle has been a large concern so trying to decide where I can shave ounces.

[@Eric-bh7jy]

How did you determine the effective kill range you were comfortable with? Looking to build soemthing similar

[@ExoMtnGear]

This is a short(ish) and incomplete answer, but it really boils down to two things... 1) The terminal capabilities of the rifle/cartridge/bullet you are shooting, as determined by the threshold at which your bullet's impact velocity delivers the expansion/upset to effectively and reliably create a terminal wound channel 2) The accuracy capabilities of your rifle system and YOU, as the shooter, to shoot accurately and consistently under pressure, from field-supported positions, and in variable conditions (wind, etc) There are scenarios where #1 exceeds the capability of #2, and vice versa, but both must be considered and you are only as effective as your weakest link. To learn more (especially about #1), we would highly suggest listening to this podcast: the-experience-project.com/small-calibers-for-big-game-hunting-part-1/

[@Eric-bh7jy]

@@ExoMtnGear thanks for responding. I listened to the podcasts with Forum which is what got me really interested in what you’re doing. Maybe I missed it and I’ll go listen again. I guess, my main question is how to determine that minimum velocity to achieve the expansion you talked about.

[@K-bob_45]

@@Eric-bh7jymost hunting bullets have an advertised min velocity for expansion. Typically they are optimistic in their velocities. Basically look at what the mfg says, then sift through anecdotal reports. If you see a lot of good try it for yourself.

[@GM-fw7ho]

Ryan Clecker knows his stuff

[@ExoMtnGear]

He does. We’ve had him on the podcast in the past: exomtngear.com/search?q=cleckner

[@daviddemand6856]

I don’t see any issue with this. It’s a matter of choosing a tool and using it properly for the job. If the ninjas understood “statistical significance” the pain in knowing that Steve’s setup wouldn’t cause so much outrage. All one needs is to understand the energy needed to effectively penetrate a moose’s (biggest game in Steve’s hunt) vitals and go from there. Confidence in equipment and self is everything! Good stuff Steve!

[@A_Revord]

Curious as to what barrel and twist rate on the 16” 6 creed. Great video!

[@ExoMtnGear]

Barrel is by Paradigm and twist is 1 in 7. I forgot to mention that in the video. - Steve

[@johnowens178]

Wow I’m getting about 200fps less velocity than you using a 20” barrel in 6creed. Are you seeing any signs of pressure with that load?

[@ExoMtnGear]

No signs of pressure on the brass, primers, bolt lift, etc.

[@joshh5853]

I’ve been working out a 243 this summer to get a season or two worth of information, down to the Nosler ballistic tips and eldx so far. It’s definitely more enjoyable at the range than a 30 cal magnum. I still can’t get behind the chassis’s though, it’s just a looks thing for me! 😂

[@ExoMtnGear]

Definitely understand the looks thing, but all it took was one hunt for me with the folding stock and built in arca rail and I was sold. In the end functionality has to take priority over aesthetics.

[@jackbuendgen389]

So with your load when does the bullet reach 1800 fps?

[@ExoMtnGear]

Here in Boise at my zeroed elevation of 3250 ft I carry that velocity to just shy of 900 yards. Way further than I would ever consider shooting an animal.

[@jackbuendgen389]

@@ExoMtnGear awesome. I'm very intrigued to see how it performs

[@BillBaker-v2u]

Well said Steve on caliber size. Have said the same for years .

[@saltyguerrilla]

Steve, Can you tell me which action this is? Kelby Nanook action? Also how does it do being exposed to dirt, and debris with that exposed bolt. It sure looks like what I want to build for elk here on the Oregon coast. It’s very wet and brushy here. The 6mm with ELDM makes sense to me.

[@ExoMtnGear]

Defiance anTi-X. Steve and Mark have used them on a lot of wet and brushy hunts without issue.

[@micahamox7043]

Is that the medium action non magnum version?

[@ExoMtnGear]

@@micahamox7043 Short action. And, yes, a 6mm CM is non-magnum.

[@RugerHensley]

I love the 6 it is a good gun

[@AZWildlifeMan]

Whats the total weight of the rifle? Apologies if i missed it somewhere

[@ExoMtnGear]

7lbs 8oz as you see it in the video. Only thing to add to that would be a 3 rounds in the magazine.

[@AZWildlifeMan]

@@ExoMtnGear pretty pretty good. Thanks for the reply

[@ethanharris5556]

I have that OBi crush pad on my XRS. I like it a lot better than the factory pad

[@Sg16-]

Is that bipod better than the mdt ckye pod

[@ExoMtnGear]

You are talking apples and oranges there. The Mtn Gear bipod is an ultralight / minimalist bipod that weighs 6oz vs the MDT being extremely stout and starting at 17oz.

[@jasonwright195]

Great stuff man. Are you able to see the level bubble over turret? Is there a reason you didn't put the level bubble on the rear ring for better visibility?

[@ExoMtnGear]

Thanks Big Dick Daddy. Mark was the first one to put the level on the far ring and I just copied it from him. The visibility is way better for me by doing that vs the front ring. - Steve

[@franciscoblazquez3466]

thanks for sharing, 100% common sense

[@Eric-bh7jy]

What does a build like this cost? Also, would you recomend this for a youth rifle? My son is starting to hunt and i need another caliber that is smaller than .308

[@weekender38]

a small fortune!

[@jimothy-johnson]

TBAC Ultra-5: $1,100 with tax stamp Bix'n Andy Trigger (maybe the Tacsport Pro-X?): $350 Defiance anTi-X: $1,400 MDT Hnt26 (folding + ARCA): $1,600 Nightforce NXS 2.5-10x42: $1,750 Hawkins Ultralight Rings: $170 Aadland Scope caps (very good pick by the way): $100 Carbon barrel of some flavor: $1,050 to start for a Proof prefit for a Ruckus which should fit an anTi-X. But those are 22" so would probably have to custom order a non-prefit from a company that does carbon barrels. Gunsmithing service fees: Kind of depends whether you manage to find a 16" prefit or not. If not, then would need a builder to chamber a carbon fiber blank for you which would likely cost $500 or so for chambering/threading for the suppressor.

[@Eric-bh7jy]

@@weekender38 seems like any high end gun will be around 4-6 k now

[@KodySunny]

Maybe im lazy, but i was really hoping to see links to your gun parts where we can shop for it.

[@ExoMtnGear]

We did get the links added to the blog post: the-experience-project.com/small-rifles-for-big-game/

[@KodySunny]

@@ExoMtnGear i saw your original reply. pretty funny and honest. im a bow hunter and dont know much about guns! i'm not too educated in the marketplace of firearms i guess. thanks for the update!

[@timshapleyadventures]

Great video.

[@philiptrump8472]

You need to start selling that rear bag!

[@nw3b3r]

I’m surprised about the move from a 6.5mm solid to 6mm match bullet. Concern over “field point” performance in the 6.5 mm solid supporting the move to a 6mm match bullet is hard to follow. What about something in the middle like an eldx or accubond long range? I shot a bull elk at 100 yards last year with a 280ai using eldx bullets and the vitals were completely destroyed, probably half the bullet blew up in the vitals, with a clean exit hole from the shank. The elk took a couple steps and rolled over.

[@codyoldford1592]

Like my 6 creed but its for deer and yotes. ...great vid thanks!

[@yo2stix]

I didn’t catch the weight of the rifle system?

[@ExoMtnGear]

It is right around 7.5lbs scoped and suppressed.

[@andygray5172]

I know he has killed all sorts of things and really does his research so not hating on him. I'd be more worried about using an EldM on Moose than the being 6mm. I use them on lopes in 6.5 and they don't usually pass through them. Ill be interested to see how they do.

[@saltyguerrilla]

That’s exactly why he’s uses them. They fragment and dump energy causing more internal damage/ hemorrhaging. Many and I mean many elk are taken with 6mm ELDm for this very reason. You can see proof over on Long Range Hunting Group on KZbin and over on the Rokslide forums.

[@philiptrump8472]

Man that's a super nice system you built! My question to you is are you brave enough to give it your own rattle can paint job?

[@ExoMtnGear]

Lol, I see absolutely zero reason I would need to do that. - Steve

[@jameskolb4825]

What action and trigger did you select? Or did I miss it in the video?

[@ExoMtnGear]

Defiance anTi-X action and a Bix’N Andy trigger.

[@jimothy-johnson]

@@ExoMtnGear Did you end up changing the trigger out after you recorded the podcast episode? I thought it was mentioned the trigger was a Jewell.

[@DevilsDitchOutdoors]

Excellent rifle for animals under 300lbs regardless of what your podcast is trying to push. 243win been around sense early 50's, I have one with a 1-7 twist shooting 115 grain Berger VLD's which will blow a bigger wound channel than your 6mm Creed 108 ELD-M's and I don't take it Elk hunting. 22mag will kill anything also but I don't carry it Deer hunting ether. If you have any common sense, you know nothing can live with a hole through the vitals it's just a matter of how long they live and how far they will travel with that hole. Let's stick with backpacks and backpacking which y'all do very well. Leave the shooting and terminal ballistics to the professionals in their field.

[@ExoMtnGear]

If you listened, you would know that we have never claimed to be experts or authorities on shooting or terminal ballistics (we do stick to backpacks), and that the podcast is not trying to "push" anything. The podcast series on small calibers did, however, present data and experience from someone who knows far more than we do. What you do with that information is up to you.

[@stevenkoskinen9452]

You're talking about a hunting rifle that cost 10k+? Not for mere mortals

[@ExoMtnGear]

Yes this gun is an expensive set up but you could definitely do a build similar to this based off a Tikka and do it much cheaper with effectively the same results.

[@123-JDAWG]

What is the furthest you would shoot an elk with that rifle?

[@ExoMtnGear]

My personal max distance is in that 500 yard range regardless of animal I'm shooting at. Past that and because I have shot enough in mountain terrain to know that I'm not qualified to understand all the factors of wind, thermals, etc I have found my accuracy really dives off quickly. I would also venture to guess that 95% of people also fall into this same category but they unfortunately don't realize it and will push the envelope and shoot animals much further than they should be. - Steve

[@weekender38]

@@ExoMtnGear "I would also venture to guess that 95% of people also fall into this same category but they unfortunately don't realize it and will push the envelope and shoot animals much further than they should be." You could have wrote that in all caps and it would have been fine with me.

[@JohnSanders-p7o]

A GOOD HUNTER that starts out bow hunting then moves to modern rifle is almost always better than the guy that did not get good at killing with a bow first. And you re right about 6mm Vs 7 in respect to distance. I aslo am not and have never been a bow hunter. Simply observation. Thanks for the video.

[@msquared9605]

I wanna rebarrel my sig cross to 6mm creedmoor so bad. Would make it an even better all around whitetail rifle for me

[@ExoMtnGear]

That’d be a sweet setup!

[@sharks8kelly1]

I re-barreled my sig cross to a 22 creed and it is a sweet shooter for sure!

[@msquared9605]

@@sharks8kelly1 what company did you go with? I’ve only found proof research and straight jacket armory for pre fits

[@sharks8kelly1]

@@msquared9605 BSF Barrels makes a prefit and I went with them. It does not come with the barrel nut so you will need to take it from your current barrel. Easy swap and Straight jacket has a KZbin video on how to do it.

[@msquared9605]

@@sharks8kelly1 cool I’ll look into them as well

[@JohnSanders-p7o]

Thay gun maes sense to me. For do all north american gun. OZARKS to Adironadck to Redwood

[@ndhunter621]

I have had more animals get away from me with good shots using "hunting bullets" than I have with the ELDM.

[@ExoMtnGear]

To be honest I don't see how an animal "gets away" with a well placed shot regardless of bullet design. It would have to be a 1 in a million chance an animal takes a bullet into the heart, lungs, liver and lives through that. I can certainly see an animal traveling a far enough distance with a lack of blood trail that you can't find it before it expires though - Steve.

[@ndhunter621]

Actually the bullets didn't penetrate at all. Perfect shots but the bullets hit bone (one rib, one shoulder) and changed direction of travel. I thought it was a fluke the first time but after the second time I switched bullets. With the eldm I've had zero issues. Which makes no sense as it's a softer bullet than the hunting bullet.

[@Pathfinder76]

And I have ocean front property in Arizona.

[@johnjay1147]

How do you know it was a good shot if the animal got away?

[@andrewleonard4490]

Have you ever seen a grizzly bear?

[@ExoMtnGear]

No, what are they?

[@andrewleonard4490]

@@ExoMtnGear lol. That's actually a pretty funny response. The gun is undoubtedly cool, I think everyone agrees on that. I lived in Alaska for a couple years and I worked in a munitions plant for a long time and I personally think I'd rather have something with a little more energy in that environment. I enjoyed the video and recent podcasts about calibers, but I still wouldn't want a grizzly on its back legs chomping its teeth at me with a 6mm. I have seen enough videos of guys shooting elk with 6.5s to know that I wouldn't want to shoot a Yukon bull with a 6mm. I guess I feel the same about it as Steve feels about bringing a pump for a pad in the backcountry. Hopefully we can still be friends and have differences in opinions. I'll still send you guys Christmas cards. Happy Hunting

[@ExoMtnGear]

I can certainly understand your opinion and I have zero data on what a 6mm bullet would do to a large bear. I would venture to guess though all the same concepts apply that we have discussed about bullets and what’s actually the most efficient way to kill an animal. If I’m hunting in thick bear country I’m most likely packing a side arm which I’m admittedly not super proficient at so I’m probably screwed if a bear charges regardless. - Steve

[@zhickman338]

They have guides present with huge guns🤷‍♂️

[@KevinBrown-r7d]

Really, a 7mm bullet that doesn't expand. What about Barnes bullets, what about Swift A-Frame bullets, what about Federal Terminal Ascent bullets, what about Nolser Accubond bullets and other copper or bonded bullets? You should shoot 100 of those unbonded "match" bullets into ballistic gel and see how many of them fragment and the lead core sheds the copper jacket, i.e.. the worst kind of bullet failure. Maybe Hornady is a sponsor or gives you free stuff? I wish I had a 6mm CM, but it would be limited to Deer size and smaller game. Look at a Zeiss V6 3-18, it only weighs 22 oz. and has SHOT glass.

[@ExoMtnGear]

If you genuinely care to know more, listen to our podcasts on these topics, starting here: the-experience-project.com/small-calibers-for-big-game-hunting-part-1/. There is zero sponsorship from Hornady or anyone else.

[@BrettMcNary]

lol at a bullet fragmenting and thinking that's a failure. You'd probably buy tubs of 1897 bullet technology that simply passes through

[@lycheeznuts]

Clueless kev

[@landonboomsma2594]

Fragmenting bullets are literally the exact reason why he’s using an eldm

[@elkklr]

I cant believe you actually believe that FORM guy! HAHA you also better return that turret to zero

[@zackw9292]

The military is dropping the 5.56 in favor of a larger .277 caliber bullet. They’ve spent far more time and money on research and development than some guys on the internet. Small calibers are a crutch for not having good fundamental shooting abilities with larger calibers.

[@CodyOutback]

You see many deer walking around with plates on?

[@cedorman]

Spoken just like some guy “on the internet” .

[@opus1956]

If the smaller, less recoiling round kills the animal within the effective range of the hunter how is that a crutch? It's a win all the way around...a guy will shoot/practice more when the gun is comfortable to shoot and everyone shoots better with a lower recoiling rifle. No doubt fundamentals matter, but the crutch argument makes no sense.

[@jimothy-johnson]

I love it when people think the military is on the cutting edge of anything related to small arms. Your average PRS/NRL Hunter civilian competitors can outshoot 90% of snipers in the US military and also have better rifles. The military does plenty of nonsensical and stupid things. Like the fact that our snipers LARP with Remington 700s in AI chassis instead of getting real AI rifles. Since hunters aren't shooting animals past 600 yards THROUGH plate armor, I think it's an apples to oranges comparison.

[@philiptrump8472]

yep and the government is always right... HAHA

[@jmajor5262]

Three bucks down with the 5.56. Three more with 308. Montana mountain bucks too use what you havr or can borrow. Btw all 6 bucks didnt go 20.

[@jmajor5262]

Have**