Fallout Talk - Did Bethesda Ruin Super Mutants

Did Bethesda ruin the Super Mutants?
The Fallout series has a long history with their macho green (and sometimes yellow) mutants. They made their first appearance in the franchise as the central antagonistic force under The Master's Army and The Unity.
Since then, the Super Mutants has made an appearance in each game, making appearances from New California wasteland all the way to Commonwealth wasteland.
In those appearances, they've been showed surprisingly different takes between one another, from design to actions.
Let's take a look at each Fallout game's Super Mutants.
#FalloutTalk #Fallout #Bethesda

[@gma5607]

The real sin is reusing them rather than coming up with something new and interesting to live on the other side of a continent.

[@bazilisek502]

@R K mutated insect with telepathic hivemind that can use weapons? I mean just something that is not another sUpEr MuTaNt

[@toxenzz]

@R K Trogs, Swampfolk, etc

[@hasogon]

​@R K ok so hear me out, what if there were these big verdant guys called the superior mutant or something similar.

[@jerm70]

Fallout 3 had a great reason why the Super Mutants are there. They are from the west coast and desperately look for Vats of Goo. FEV experiments were done there but there is no Vats of Goo. They think a Vault has a Vats of Goo so they are searching Vaults for them. Fallout 4 just goes insane afterwards. In Fallout 3 they are on the downward spiral and have basically radicalized because they know their race is over. Fallout 4 just has a shit ton for no reason and there are way more than imaginable.

[@Nikojarl80-]

Why can’t Bethesda just come up with something new other then the brain dead and bullshit reason east coast super mutants like for Christ sake their in far harbor and Nuka world DLCs

[@JereMiesh]

playing new vegas with a green hud? that's blasphemy

[@maxmccullough8548]

Yellow only yellow!

[@GamesTwiceOver]

To be honest, as I started editing my content, I really felt like I should have turned it amber before recording. It gets very hard to tell, sometimes, whether or not I'm playing 3 or New Vegas in that moment. On the other hand, I don't want to go back and rerecord everything. Eesh

[@El_Descarriado]

@@GamesTwiceOver You must atone. 3 seasons of Spongebob, 1 playthrough of Deus Ex: Human Revolution, 5 cans of Fanta Lemon, a slice of banana and pineapple pie and 4 hours staring directly at the sun should be enough to re-yellow your soul.

[@eeshkawumbathelogical4108]

@@El_Descarriado HE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN T

[@atomikcosmonaut522]

Green pip boy and amber HUD, just the way I like it

[@vyacheslav4217]

Super mutants having good weapons like miniguns and laser rifle doesnt always make sense. In fo1 they occupied a military base, so it made sense they were well equipped. In fo3/nw/fo4 super mutants fight raiders mostly, so it makes sense they have weapons they probably plundered from raiders and others.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I'm not arguing that specific element. I'm aware that it's more sensible to handle less impressive more weaponry. From a gameplay and design standpoint, it's underwhelming at best.

[@vyacheslav4217]

@@GamesTwiceOver Otherwise this video summerizes the problems with super mutants in fo3/fo4 pretty well. I wish super mutants will be much stronger and play a major role in the plot of the next fallout game

[@TheGilgameshepic]

@@GamesTwiceOver On the other hand, the Suiciders in 4 are absolutely terrifying if you don't see them coming, or are clunking along at low AP. It's a shame it isn't really explained WHY you get the suiciders (I assume that they are mutants driven completely insane by the FEV induced mental deterioration), but if you don't spot them early you're likely to have a worse day than any Fallout 1 or 2 Supermutant will give you.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

@@TheGilgameshepic Right, but suiciders tend to be more of the exception than the rule. I have mixed feelings about them, one hand - one of the better East Mutants because they ARE a threat, on the other hand - they have to get close to do anything. And they were introduced in the class of Mutants that exist without purpose, so I still have a slight negative feeling about them.

[@shi77e20]

also all the super powerful weapons tend to be locked behind strong doors and terminals (like big armory doors to prevent attackers) super mutants are not good at lockpicking or hacking terminals so it makes sense they scrounge up weapons. I feel they could be switched to a close range high damage resistance melee enemy with the occasional medium range "class" super mutant

[@SuperSymbiote1]

It makes Zero sense in 4. There should not be hundreds of mutants in the commonwealth. There should be around 100 max due to failed experimentation. They don’t just pop out the ground lol.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Try Institute's newest product for the Commonwealth. Grow-A-Mutie. Got an ex you want to teach a lesson? Has a landlord been a little *too* irritating when demanding rent? Maybe you're just feeling a little cheeky and want to bring reckless destruction to the nearest pack of families running a small farm? Just pop some revolutionary Grow-A-Mutie seeds in the ground, add some irritated water, wait a few days and soon you'll find a bunch of bulky buckaroos budding on beautiful blooms. When fully grown, just snip the stems, toss a rock to wake them up and... Wow, your own uncoordinated army! It's that easy! Warning: May cause death upon consciousness. Don't snip the stems without proper protection or means of escape.

[@SuperSymbiote1]

@@GamesTwiceOver Lol

[@nicholasgallinaro1306]

There are more super mutants in 4 than there are in New vegas like Holy shit

[@jerm70]

Maybe that is what could of made Fallout 4 a better game. The Institute create FEV mutants in the labs that aren't quite the super mutants but more akin to the master without fusing to technology. The Superior Man. Who are turned into Cyborgs. These Cyborgs have escaped the Institute and have interacted with the few remaining Super Mutants who through mucking about old military bases in search of the Vats of Goo has discovered that there is vats of goo at MIT. So there is a 5th faction that everyone can oppose. The Legion Faction. The Mutants are many but will act as one to destroy their oppressors. There is a prime cyborg who the mutants call MASTER.

[@jacobkeller7172]

@@jerm70 fallout 4 a better game? They rehashed half of their characters from previous game. Honestly the only thing they did right was Vats. The story is just a reverse of fallout 3. I bet in fallout 5 we go look for our brother/sister after they leave/get taken from a vault wouldnt that be a good story?

[@bambi20082148]

In Fallout 4 they just felt like raiders with a bigger hitbox and a bit more hp, yet there are legends of them going toe to toe with power armor users

[@JamKyt9]

I think them being weaker in 3 and 4 is just another one of Bethesda’s Ass pulls by saying since they are not og California mutants that’s why they’re so weak but it wouldn’t make sense with Obsidians Super Mutants either.

[@JamKyt9]

Wouldn’t the newer ones just be dumber but not weaker? Because if that’s true then Bethesda really fucked up

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I don't think it's really a lore thing there, I just think they don't want to overwhelm new players with heavily damage resistant, muscle bound Mutants firing rocket launchers and miniguns. Which makes them underwhelming. They LOOK dangerous, until you pop them a couple of times with a 10mm.

[@DuVious1]

@@GamesTwiceOver It's really sad they went that way though. Fallout 1 and 2 said "Fuck it." and had Super Mutants be extremely hard to battle and a way to block new players. If you go to the left in the game map (FO1 I think,) you can literally get to the end game, but they made it impossible because they put super mutant random encounters in your way. It felt EXTREMELY rewarding to finally beat these strong enemies. Fallout New Vegas returned to fallout 2 and made them stronger than Fallout 3 and they actually had really good lore and good reasons to fight people. (ie. Black Mountain) Fallout 3 and 4, Todd shat his pants playing fallout 1 and 2 and instantly said "Look who's laughing now! Heha." as he lowered the damage and hp of the super mutants. The reason why I didn't talk about Fallout 76 is because I haven't touched it for 2 years. What a waste of 76 bucks, but hey, I got a cool vault boy head and American flag suit! I have yet to encounter the mutants in 76 and I probably never will. Therefore, I shall not discuss it as I am not knowledgeable about them.

[@nome9752]

@@DuVious1 it makes sense in 3 they are trying to repopulate by using the fev that one of the vaults has, makes more sense than black mountain who they jist want to stay there for no reason

[@TNOFanZacharie]

After rewatching this one, I'll be honest, Supermutants in FO4 are just... there. Like, really, I sometimes forget they're not from Vault 87. They're just boring. At the very least, in 76, they were somewhat interesting, I mean, their backstory, it was pretty good, they were still unnecessary, but "okay". I love supermutatns in New Vegas, they were just... perfect. There was a reason for some of them to be hostile (Black Mountain, etc.), but Jacobstown is a perfect location to show you their "human" side. You can easily see the difference between a gen 1 and 2 mutant. Really, I applaud New Vegas writers for making it so interesting, when they could've just made it an uniteresting Broken Hills clone.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Broken Hills is pretty hard to top too. There was a lot going on there. I'd argue that Fallout 2 had the most "human" Super Mutants and all because of Broken Hills.

[@talionthe.ranger2863]

GARY WHY'D YOU DO IT GARY I THOUGHT WE WERE FRIENDS!

[@mastermindepsilon9517]

I solidly agree with you Sgt.Smith. Fallout 4's super mutants are by far the worst, because they have none of the numbers or capabilities that West Coast mutants have, but not even the good physical design that Fallout 3 brought to the table when bringing mutants into 3d. They just look plain ugly and pitiful.

[@samiamtheman7379]

F3 at least established that it was a Vault-Tek experiment like how most of the vaults were experiments, as well as the fact that the Vault 87 mutants were basically living on borrowed time. It's said in game that they got way more aggressive fairly recently to the game's events and the reason being was to look for more FEV. In Vault 87, you can find a terminal where you can check the FEV levels and they're all depleted. So, the Mutants are roaming the wasteland in search for more, which is why they're at Vault-Tek Headquarters, because being the mostly dumb mutants they are, they just assume that FEV comes from vaults. In F4, they're basically there because the Institute decided to experiment with FEV for whatever reason.

[@twohorsesinamancostume7606]

Them being in Vault 87 is pretty stupid too. Supermutants were the result of a military project that the military had seized from Westek, a private company. I'm supposed to believe that they just handed some to Vaultec? What? The simple fact of the matter is that Bethesda is blatantly incapable of coming up with anything new, so they just took factions from Fallout 1 and 2 and just plopped them into a new game, no matter how stupid the excuse was. They did the same with 76, which is why they've crammed in the Brotherhood even though the Brotherhood should barely have any reach beyond their bunker.

[@splattt8088]

in my opinion, yes. They went from being an interesting species to being just another enemy. The one thing i like is the behemoths, they're really fun to fight imo

[@terrencemoldern2756]

Interesting as in they were headed by what was the main enemy leader in Fallout 1? Because otherwise not at all. I love the criticism of Bethesda’s Mutants even though they operate by the same play book however with far more tragedy... the ones in 1 were also dumb. It was literally just the the Finale boss at the military base that was intelligent besides a few being mildly so. Even being recognized in the actual game that a majority of the Mutants were dumb. With a few exceptions. Those exceptions still also transmitting to Fallout 3 and 4... pretty hefty bs to even think they were simply more interesting in one and that their just more “enemies”. If you think that you definitely didn’t play Fallout 3... Suggest you watch “Fallout 3 is better then you remember”. The guy has a segment discussing this and calls out the ignorance in such an idea that super Mutants are made worse in Bethesda’s fallouts.

[@Goofballhero]

@@terrencemoldern2756 I actually agree and enjoy the super mutant presence in the Capital Wasteland. Fallout 3 receives faaar too much unnecessary hate. But FO4 totally made Super Mutants to be bland. And I think FO4 is actually a good game, just the writing in the game is an insult to Fallout.

[@terrencemoldern2756]

@@Goofballhero for the most part I definitely agree. I think that the Mutants in 4 could have been done far more justice if they bothered to add some more story to them. But yeah agreed

[@wolfman6696]

@Andrea De Luca The thing is that narratively the ones from 3 and 4 kind of need to be detached because it wouldn't make sense to promote the same ideals as the Western Super Mutants considering their origins are entirely different in both cases. The Super Mutants in 3 are driven by violent impulses and seek to make more of themselves to create an army so that the wasteland will be their own, but they lack any serious intelligence and the willingness to communicate is non-existient. Fawkes who is the only intelligent mutant created from that strain of FEV is labelled a failure by the other mutants and kept as a curiosity. Their were all dumb-dumbs without a leader. The ones in 4 seem to have a bit more character because they seem to be aware of their situation as being manufactured freaks, and they actively do proclaim that the age of man is over and it's the time of the super mutant. The issue with them is that while some seem a bit smarter than your average super mutant, this strain of FEV didn't create any intelligent super mutants bar Virgil who had a heavily modified unique strain. Basically, theyt're all dumb-dumbs with no smarts to lead them because they hate smarts.

[@terrencemoldern2756]

@Andrea De Luca lol not true. In Fallout 3 especially there is much more depth then characters to kill on mass. The main difference is unlike Fallout 1... their not the main or a main faction. So it’s pretty hefty to compare mutants from a game that was based around them to be a super important part to ones that weren’t.Which even then still contained lore for them that was respectable. Especially in Fallout 3. It’s a very far exaggeration to say they are simply enemies when Bethesda even dedicates locations filled with lore on them and other things.

[@scottishknights]

Fallout 76’s reason for having super mutants when the master wouldn’t have created them for another 100 years or so “Uhh… west tek poisoned the water, yeah that’ll do it”

[@playzcrayon8186]

At this point it’s as clear as day that Bethesda can’t think for themselves at all

[@mobythelion3882]

I'm a fan of FO76 and I really fucking hated that reason for them being there. luckily though, I have only encountered 2 behemoths in my entire playthrough (I am level 173)

[@girf4233]

thats really not what happend if you actually check what happend but alright lol

[@diamondmetal3062]

Really? They could’ve just said that they were US soldiers augmented with FEV by the government and put on ice.

[@leeham6230]

@@mobythelion3882 You love FO76? Holy shit dude I feel sorry for you! Have you always had shit taste?

[@GeoffreyBronson]

I remember being annoyed when I learned that New Vegas didn't have the brotherhood of steel and the enclave as the main major factions. Why was I annoyed? Because I was a stupid 14 year old whose only experience with fallout was fallout 3 and had no concept of the lore. I don't know what Bethesda's excuse is.

[@jacobkeller7172]

Its funny. 3 used to be my favorite of the series. But that was just my first step. I cant put down new vegas

[@GeoffreyBronson]

@@jacobkeller7172 Same. I started another playthrough on Sunday and I actually pre-ordered the damn game at gamestop back in the day. I think I'm destined to travel to the Mojave Wasteland every year for the rest of my life. I'm not complaining.

[@gelusvenn5063]

@jonathan erinder For oldstyle players it's pretty much the same in reverse. I play New Vegas and I think "Now this is a Fallout 3" even incorporating parts of the cancelled original fallout 3. None of Bethesda's Fallouts are perfect, but NV is the stand-above example of them for me. I think Fallout 4 is a fun FPS but it's a Fallout-in-name-only, and 3 was ok, even if it kinda shit on some of the lore. 76 I give a pass for just being an MMO and as far as I'm concerned not really canon. Alternate timeline maybe.

[@leeham6230]

@@gelusvenn5063 Bethesda didn't develop Fallout NV. That was Obsidian Entertainment, a developer comprised of ex-Black Isle Studios employees, including the main developers of Fallout 1 and 2.

[@coldeed]

I was annoyed with 3 and NV having shitty antagonists. Bootleg enclave and larping Romans ain't shit vs the unity and the last gasp of the old worlds govt.

[@TheAlmightyLeroy]

I agree, I hate how they're just slightly larger raiders, I killed so many of them before level 10 in Fallout 3 that I never felt like they were a serious challenge. I think this also applies to power armoured enemies, the Enclave show up in Fallout 3 and you've already killed a dozen or so in that one encounter alone that they just feel like regular enemies.

[@TY-km8hj]

When I first played fallout 3 I was quite underwhelmed by the enclave. They're in literal power armour but I was taking off heads with my hunting rifle with ease.

[@ZigealFaust]

This is why all the best Supermutants (besides Fawkes to a degree) from the 3D-Fallouts are in New Vegas.

[@finkamain1621]

@@ZigealFaust It helps too that Obsidian has much better RPG elements like damage threshold where some enemies depending on what they are or what they're wearing have a stronger resistance to certain weapons

[@GeteMachine]

Thats mostly because of gameplay and their behavior just being the same as Raiders. They use the same weapons and tactics rather than their own mechanics.

[@mrzombiebrain]

the super mutants in 4 look like ogres not fked up mutated humans, they look normal as they are as in they dont look like they used to be something else before turning into a mutant

[@greatgatsby0174]

I’m sorry to see but I don’t see that.

[@hellraiser5671]

I thought it was pretty interesting that their upper lip grew too much in FO1 & 2 that they had to hold it up with a belt.

[@drinknukacola5315]

@@greatgatsby0174 Me either.

[@bruvaguren494]

Bethesda's Super Mutants are just generic orcs. The "Haha Battle and looting" character trope

[@thelaughingrouge]

In 4 they also screwed up the gouls too. In 3 and NV they look pretty good, they look like they should, in 4 they look terrible.

[@Gookwear]

The institute has a lot of technology and gifted people, why are their super mutants more similar to Vault 87 than to the Unity? It would have been easier to explain that they simply emigrated from D.C to Boston, the problem is that Bethesda thinks that if there are no idiot super mutants and the BoS shooting with them it will be a boring game

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I *think* the idea was that the Institute strain was mostly used as a means to work on synth, mostly for organs. After a while, it stopped showing any useful results and when asked why they continue, the upper management just ignored it. It's honestly a very convoluted excuse have Super Mutants in the game. The upper management not answering honestly reflects the writing. "why are we doing this?" "..." I'm... Not even entirely sure how FEV and growing organs is meant to work. Prior to 4, FEV has always been used to infect and mutate hosts, not become one. Maybe a host mutates redundant organs? Looking at the terminal entries doesn't really yield much better understanding. I could have missed something. But... Anyway, I think the idea is they're not trying to really grow a super mutant army like The Master so their intelligence doesn't matter. They were always a means to an... "Open ended" goal. For what it's worth, they're moderately more intelligent than 87 ones. Although, I feel the instability of Super Mutants in all the East strains would really hinder synthetic organs. Namely the gigantism. But that's probably solved for them. Like I said, it's very convoluted. The real question is why Huntersville exactly the same? Besides asset reuses, of course.

[@Ephringael]

@@GamesTwiceOver I think it may be because FEV tends to make thing biologically immortal and rendered immune to disease, and the prospect of a biological immortal humanity can not be ignored by science. Imagine a heart that never weakens, a liver and kidneys that can filter more toxins without risk of failure, never being sick again. I think these were their goals. But, since FEV rewrites the genetic code of the host, Supermutant organs are likely incompatible with the human body, and would also risk infecting the host and mutating them as well since the organs would be infected. (We know that FEV is transmissible, through vehicles, specifically water. It is likely bloodborne as well) So you'd have supermutants created by FEV experiments, which would be considered failures, and dumped into the Commonwealth. Supermutants who were the results of organ transplantation and subsequent infection, who would be considered failures and dumped out into the commonwealth. Now why would someone fail so many times and keep doing it, because there are a lot of supermutants in the commonwealth? Well, to quote the wiki "A notable feature of FEV is that it partially relies upon the DNA of the individual coming in contact with it" and "This feature of the FEV made it incredibly versatile, though tweaking the genome of the virus required extensive experimentation: Strains would typically produce unstable results, with few viable, stable strains" This means, there is a correct answer, there is the one combination of viral strain tweaks and the perfect human host that will result in the exact changes you want to see. It absolutely exists. The problem is that combination is absurdly unlikely, non-zero, but by all means likely impossible. Still, this is The Institute we're talking about, the brightest minds the world currently has to offer. Surely they could figure it out right? It wouldn't be the first time hubris had blinded them. Edit: Clarification Hepatitis A and other similar viruses that are vehicle transmissible are what I used to conclude that FEV, which is a confirmed waterborne virus, could be transmitted through blood as well.

[@joshuakim5240]

The Institute FEV was a sub-branch into synth research, but the moment they found that it was much harder to work with, yielded worse results, and endangered intelligence, they stopped caring about it and used it as a means to dispose of captured synth replacement victims to use as extra troops. Still a shallow excuse to shoehorn in super mutants, but an excuse is there.

[@Darkknight-rf2hw]

If you remember most super mutants were given mild doses of radiation and in fo4 one of the last things you do is start up a nuclear reactor years in the making so in terms of technology the vaults weren't to far behind the institute what I dont understand why they are just as stupid as most mutants but are also smaller physically so their mutants are overall worse

[@adamstringer7092]

Since the Institute evolved from the Fallout universe’s version of MIT, it’s reasonable to assume that they were working with West-Tek on FEV before the war. I wouldn’t be surprised if some PHD students and professors went “hey can we see what you’re making in your top secret lab?”.

[@dahwriter]

Bethesda did 'slightly' redeem themselves with characters like Erickson, the breeder/trader super mutant you encounter in Far Harbor. He didn't agree with the mindless killing and fanatical mindset of his brothers, so he left, and built a home out a crashed airliner. He runs it like a trading outpost and will even sell one of his pups to you; a super mutant dog included. Bethesda could have made something of this character. Erickson could potentially agree to follow you to one of the base-building locations with the idea of transforming it into a super mutant haven, like Jacobstown. You would venture to areas on the island known for mutant activity, like the bathhouse, and try to convince the mutants to start life anew; having Erickson with you could make the process easier. Otherwise you could fight their leader, and by killing him, win the respect of the others, though this isn't guaranteed to happen every time. Your stats would have to be considered as well, such as charisma, strength, agility, and constitution. This could have started a new series of quests, where the people of Far Harbor dislike the idea of you creating a super mutant town, and want to destroy it. The Children of Atom might see the mutants as an abomination of Atom's glory, which, with a speech check, you might convince them that the mutants are icons of Atom's will and power. An alliance might be forged. You could lead a super mutant/Children of Atom full-on assault against Far Harbor and Arcadia, wherein the whole island becomes a radiated paradise. Or maybe you use Arcadia to play mind games on the muties, and forcefully replace the leader of the Children in order to create peace among the colonies. It would all depend on what you wanted. Moreover, you could use the Nuka World implementation of raider bases, and have your newfound super mutant friends invade the Commonwealth. Form alliances with the current residing mutant "tribes" and lead a full scale war. It wouldn't alter the ending of the Institute being wiped out, because the mutants would see the Institute as a means of making more of their kind. You would, thus, enslave the Institute and inevitably re-create The Master on the east coast. You would become the Mutant Messiah. Instead, however, you could work with Erickson to reign in the super mutant violence in the commonwealth, and use the mutants to fight back against their creators, the Institute. Mutant villages would be erected across the Commonwealth, and the Glowing Sea could become a new mutant metropolis, safe from deathclaws, radscorpions, and feral ghouls. The Children of Atom's base in the nuclear crater would become Ericksonville, and ultimately be established as the largest super mutant town anyone had ever seen. Twice the size of Diamond City. Furthermore, if leading the Minutemen, you could forge an alliance between them and the super mutant towns in order to keep the peace and establish the New Commonwealth. This could also lead to conflict with the Brotherhood of Steel, when they learn of the nuclear weapons stockpile in the Glowing Sea. Do you allow the BoS to raid the base and take the weapons, or demand they leave, thus creating conflict and a future war with them? The greatest thing about all of this is that none of it would happen if you never happened upon Erickson, or if you just shot him in the head and moved on. It would be very "Fallout-esc" to have a massive game changer all but negated because you, the player, decided to shoot first and ask questions never. Nevertheless, this is just an idea off the top of my head. Nothing more.

[@octodaddy877]

IIRC, all of the super mutants at the vim factory are more intelligent. Something in the vim that makes them smarter I guess. I think they're as intelligent as Erickson, who was a part of that group, but they just didn't reject violence like he did. So it could have been cool to take Erickson back to the vim factory so he could convince his brothers to join him in nonviolence.

[@darkgeneral0192]

Yeah I'm not gonna read that

[@lucasperuzzo7459]

Far Harbor is the real fallout 4, it's fallout 4 story (Synths, institute, the somewhat railroad and etc) but better programmed, and better characters, even the way you enter the DLCs is shorter better

[@felipebatistadeoliveira211]

Mutants in 1 2 and NV: hmm that was a good fight now i will talk with my brothers about politics and science Mutants in 3 and 4: cock roach good

[@thelaughingrouge]

This is it, perfectly summed up in two sentences. Good job.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

And the reason why the cockroach was good was that it dropped a rocket launcher when the mutant smashed it with a nailboard.

[@finkamain1621]

Strong go with human Milk of human kindness

[@MorriganAutumn]

Majority of supermutants in fo1 were just retarded, people like Marcus, the lieutenant and some others from jacobstown are outliers.

[@marveyzing1495]

in all honesty in my opinion the mutants in 3 and 4 actually are a bit more sad i recall a mutant in 1 or 2 saying that most mutants are dumb and idiotic and most of the smart mutants are with the master and most of them probably got murdered with him in fallout 3 there actively searching to vault tec locations why? to find a geck to find FEV i think and the vault there inhabiting broke its water chip

[@SoulxReaper9522]

They ruin most of the lore because they lack the drive, passion, love, respect and creativity and replaced it with greed and laziness

[@takkarsasori8961]

didnt like more than half of the development team leave F4 to work on F76 when F4 was just barely worked on? swear i heard something like that a while back.

[@SoulxReaper9522]

@@takkarsasori8961 yeah sounds right, I think they were planning on adding multiplayer to FO4 but then it got too big or they run out of time or something a long those lines

[@neozeed8139]

I’m pretty sure it’s more so panic and unrealistic deadlines, along with green staff.

[@finkamain1621]

Don't worry, we can still make a laser pistol out of a laser rifle and a laser sniper rifle out of a laser rifle and they count as new weapons because the game and Todd Howard said so [Lmfao]

[@pierretheron8686]

As much as I dislike the writing and worldbuilding in the Bethesda Fallouts, this is just a complete and utter load of horseshit. The people doing the writing still likely care deeply about what they do, they still want to produce something they can be proud of. It's not the shareholders or the executives that wrote the lore and built the game, it's still human beings on the development team that cared about what they did. This is in the end, an incredibly vacuous mindset, blame the poor worldbuilding on lack of resources, the inability for the writing team to have the time and manpower necessary to fully flesh out a game that consists of hundreds of hours of content, inexperience, or mismanagement, but don't act like the people who put countless hours of their lives into the game didn't care about it. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that they didn't try. You can criticize the result of their efforts, but don't wholesale make up bullshit about why it's bad that fit your biases and weird desire to have some sort of narrative where every single person working on the game - who, by the way, have zero points or shares in the company itself and thus aren't beholden to to its profits - are somehow greedy, malingering agents.

[@TDenterpriser]

I think super mutants using weaker weapons after fallout 1 makes sense. Because in the first game they were an organized military force but after the death of the master they just use anything they can find

[@GamesTwiceOver]

On a firepower side, though their bare skin IS supposed to be able to take firepower pretty well. Somewhere around combat armor level, I believe.

[@thelaughingrouge]

@@GamesTwiceOver Exactly, raiders and regular people should stand zero chance. It takes someone like the brotherhood to even fight them properly.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

@@thelaughingrouge Well equipped NCR soldiers, too. Combat armor, while not as strong as PA, is really good and could probably handle them. The ones NCR patrols in the second game were a pretty deadly force.

[@thelaughingrouge]

@@GamesTwiceOver True, some anti material rifles ought to do the job nicely.

[@NevadaGamingWedge]

it would make more sense for them to create a new enemy if they make another fallout game in the 2200's or 2300's simply due to the fact they cannot reproduce, and therefore are under a VERY limited time frame. if anything they should mostly be like the Enclave in FO4 mearly rumored at or hinted to with few key characters that hold conversations.

[@gelusvenn5063]

Well they do still live for a hugely long time like Ghouls. But I'd imagine that while there could still be a decent number of them, it would specifically be the ones who _aren't_ hostile, because those would be the ones to suffer so much attrition.

[@JackSimpson2077]

Maybe if a new game is made SM are as common and as strong as Behemoths in F3, that way they are feared like Deathclaws are in early game. If they're more common, they should be very difficult to fight, to the point to maybe the most powerful weapons still need 2-3 shots to take them out

[@roubinnick]

"Did Bethesda ruin-.." "Yes."

[@brok56]

No question. Just yes

[@sargesacker2599]

Yes Sarcastic yes Yes? No (but yes)

[@16thdimensionalmathematics]

In Bethesda's eyes, if the game takes place somewhere other than the West coast but doesn't have super mutants or Brotherhood shoved in for whatever reason, regardless of timeline as well, then it can't be a Fallout game. Let's also not forget how while 76 does have plenty of very muties that are based on actual West Virginian folklore, yet they still choose to have both Deathclaws, supermuties, and Brotherhood, 'cause as I said, if it didn't, then it somehow wouldn't be Fallout

[@reeeeeeeeeeeeeeman6757]

They could have a game in Antartica and there still would be super mutants and raiders that look identical to the ones in fallout 4

[@16thdimensionalmathematics]

@@reeeeeeeeeeeeeeman6757 And they really would just be called “Raiders,” very nondescript. At least they tried with the Trappers from Far Harbor, and the different Nuka World factions

[@chipputer]

If they didn't have those things you people would be whining about them not being there. No, don't act like you wouldn't.

[@Umbra_Ursus]

Deathclaws are pre-war B.O.W.s, so them being everywhere the military was makes sense. Not so much for the mutants, originally being failed military super soldiers. Then again, robobrains never saw mass production, and they litter the capital wasteland, so who knows?

[@rileyrosswalker]

@@chipputer Shhh you're disrupting the circle jerk with reason.

[@warhawk9566]

Bethesda super mutants are basically just orcs

[@terrencemoldern2756]

Not true buddy. You definitely haven’t bothered playing Fallout 3 or anything. Cause that is bs. Best thing I can do is recommend you watch “Fallout 3 is better then you remember” there’s a segment where he talks about Super Mutants and their role in Bethesda’s fallout. If you aren’t ignorant enough to watch.

[@Jinars.]

@@terrencemoldern2756 what a condescending piece of shit lol

[@OfLanceTheLonginus]

@@terrencemoldern2756 dude what the fuck is your problem. Compared to 1,2, NV, yes they are orcs Try not to be so goddamn condescending “You definitely haven’t played 3” You mean the game with TWO whole super mutants who aren’t barbarians, yeah good point ya armchair warrior

[@emperorenvi8814]

@@terrencemoldern2756 I'm pretty sure there's one friendly super mutant but in new vegas there's a whole friendly town and a few more friendly mutants

[@terrencemoldern2756]

@@Jinars. lol like how that got a bunch of likes cause some idiots are salty that I’m calling out the bs

[@RichterTheRat]

Could you imagine if Bethesda used Argonians they way they use Super Mutants?

[@RichterTheRat]

@Clifford V I wasn't implying they should. I was implying it would be stupid.

[@doomslayer1210]

That’s why when I play as argoniam I play as a female in very revealing succubus armor. ❤️ I love mods

[@de-fabo4028]

@@doomslayer1210 😀😐🤨

[@playzcrayon8186]

I feel like Bethesda thinks that the supermutants just reproduce like any other living creature but they forgot that supermutants are sterile

[@mailmanwilly]

That would imply Bethesda knew that ahead of time.

[@Umbra_Ursus]

Perhaps Gen Institute Super Mutants can breed. They are quite different in terms of build, who's to say they don't differ in other regards? Would be better than "The Institute did the same failed FEV experiment for over a hundred years", because that is still stupid.

[@pcpolice2518]

I don’t think they think at all

[@alexbattaglia8297]

No? In fallout 3 it's a major thing that super mutants constantly raid settlements and kidnap people so they can turn them, there's even dialogue between super mutants where one tries to remember what 'her' life was before being turned

[@playzcrayon8186]

@@alexbattaglia8297 yeah but they act like super mutants are born not turned

[@AdventureThroughLife]

I think the next question that needs to be asked that wasn't brought up in Fallout 2 when confronting the master should be why does the master decide to self-destruct because his mutants are infertile. Even if they are infertile, that doesn't mean they can't create more super mutants forever, all they need to do is keep humans around and breed them indefinitely so they can keep making super mutants. Basically treating them as the engine needed to make more super mutants. That was the obvious answer to the question for the Master, so even if he didn't think about it the heat of the moment, one of the other super mutants would have realised and started another faction centered around the same idea.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

The Master blows himself up out of guilt. You're actually able to talk him out of it by suggesting more test subjects (which turns him hostile, he wants to start with you.). As for human farms, it's really a short-term solution. FEV may be finite (certainly is in 3 "gotta get more green stuff") but even if not, having to start everyone's journey at Mariposa doesn't sound very sustainable. Something's bound to mess up. The solution would definitely be scientists working to fix the infertility while using The Great Procreator in the meantime.

[@theeternal2734]

The Master Believed He Was Truly Saving Humanity, I Don't Think He Would Enslave Part Of Humanity For The Super Mutant Race.

[@atanaspetkov580]

You could look at it as the Master's hubris getting the better of him. He and the smart Super Mutants talk about themselves as the next step in human evolution. They see themselves as superior beings because they can survive and thrive in the wasteland. The fact that they are infertile and require normal humans to increase their numbers is a massive blow to their ego because their long-term survival is dependent on an "inferior" species. While the human breeding farms can work, the Master and his underlings would need to swallow their pride for these installations to exist.

[@theeternal2734]

@@atanaspetkov580 I Think The Implication After Convincing The Master Was That He Realized All He Had Done Which He Thought Was For The Greater Good Was Going To Fail In The End And All He Had Really Done Was Commit Atrocities To A Fruitless Endeavor Made His Humanity Shine Through.

[@quindariousgooch6908]

I remember this one sort of theory that I liked that because it’s a speech check he doesn’t think it through much because you’re appealing to his emotions not his logic

[@adhdaiden6297]

At least in Fallou5 3, the super mutants had a reason to want to be hostile to the player and other factions, in that they wanted to kidnap people to bring them back to Vault 87 so they could give them a good ol' FEV shower to make more of their "Brothers" and it had a good reason to why there are just so fucking many of them. But Fallout 4 was just hehe haha big green man kill you now

[@ghostly5866]

Well, if they didn’t give you the FEV shower they would just eat you. So they would be hostile to humans in general because they see them as a food source.

[@finkamain1621]

It would have been better if they either had west or east coast super mutants in the game just in 1 or 2 locations and make some lore about it how they fled there or trekked there for resources. They should have made them tougher as well. Even the super mutant overlords in Fallout 3 were tough to fight

[@justinmacdonald2102]

I think the tunnelers from lonesome road were a really good unique area specific critter.

[@TY-km8hj]

But of course that wasn't bethesda, that was obsidian

[@rileyrosswalker]

I definitely would love to see more enemies like them. Seeing them take down a Deathclaw was something else.

[@hunterblue7816]

@@TY-km8hj But of course it was just a cheap copy of Trogs which were made by Bethesda

[@evilmouse911]

can’t wait for bethesda to put them in fallout 5 with no lore justification other than “oh actually they were just always everywhere the whole time”

[@zorkan111]

Did Bethesda ruin super mutants? Better question would be - is there anything Bethesda didn't ruin? As you said, "this is a Fallout game, Fallout had supermutants, therefore, let's add supermutants". Same goes for every other Fallout themed item - 50's culture, jet, caps, you name it. Bethesda didn't make a Fallout game. They made a theme park ride with Fallout props.

[@gcon.807]

Amen

[@oddtomato1049]

While i don't think they ruined EVERYTHING, i do think they ruined Ghouls.

[@shi77e20]

@@oddtomato1049 nah, ghouls limbs coming off was a great addition in fallout 4, what areas do you feel they ruined?

[@kraigisboss]

@@shi77e20 The glowing One's ability to resurrect dead ghouls is in my opinion infuriating. They can revive even the really tanky versions of ghouls like charred. {which don't make sense how all that dead burnt skin makes them tanky} Also glowing ones are just too tanky for their own good in 4 mainly down to the fault of the rather lackluster weapons arsenal.

[@shi77e20]

@@kraigisboss you know, i never realised they could revive other ghouls. I always killed the glowing ones first if I could. Yea I think ghouls should just have low damage resistance with like a medium health so they can lose limbs and still fight. basically a zombie, swarming you to kill you

[@SkillBill1000.]

They used to be fast af and really buff then in fallout 4 they gave them beer bellies for some reason and they run slower than my grandma

[@beanface7408]

They run slower than my grandpa, and his sprinting speed is everyone else's walking speed.

[@BotBoy-un3pz]

The super mutants in fallout 4 are literally just “orcs, but in the future”

[@LordDarthHarry]

76 recently somewhat utilized them in the Brotherhood questline. More as a side effect of the plot but it's something.

[@leeham6230]

100 years before the master?

[@LordDarthHarry]

@@leeham6230 Different Super Mutants from a different source. Much like the ones in Fallout 3....it's in the video...

[@leeham6230]

@@LordDarthHarry Yeah, because they straight up wrote up a bunch of BS "lore". You can't make up crappy lore, then expect me not to criticize it . Super mutants are from The Master, and everything else is fan fiction.

[@LordDarthHarry]

@@leeham6230 Yes yes Bethesda bad, only 2 Fallout games blah blah blah heard it all before. Do you people even realize how insufferable you are? Also you didn't "criticize" anything. You just asked a dumb question which was answered in the video.

[@feorge33]

@@LordDarthHarry do YOU realize how insufferable you tasteless hacks are?

[@carbodude5414]

Under Black Isle/Obsidian, Super Mutants were an actual faction Under Bethesda, they're just another Raider group for you to shoot at

[@chilarius]

Even Tactics mutants are better explained than the Bethesda mutants.

[@thestaminabs]

Wrong, the mutants in three are explained with great detail

[@gcon.807]

Agreed! Not only that, but the tactics mutants were super threatening and posed a major threat against the player and their teammates, they were partially intelligent and added a good foe to lead up against the Robots.

[@thestaminabs]

@@gcon.807 but we already know that the west coast mutants for the most part were dimwitted. Only a very select few had notable intelligence. Of the mutants that were created in the east coast it makes perfect sense that they would for the most part be also dimwitted. There are two intelligent mutants in fallout 3.

[@jacobkeller7172]

@@thestaminabs west coast mutants aren't dimwitted. Thats the whole of gen 2. Gen 1 for the most part were on par with human intelligence. Seeing as they ALL started on the west coast it makes sense that the later generation is still around and not the 1st so much. In short you dont know shit about fallouts mutants.

[@thestaminabs]

@@jacobkeller7172 i said most of the west coast mutants are dimwitted. Which is true, also i know plenty about fallout mutants. Yes Generation 1 mutants that were mutated from pure or prime humans for the most part kept their intelligence or had it boosted because of their untouched DNA. But wastelanders (for the most part) would demonstrate the intelligence of a child. Gen 2 mutants were similar to the east coast mutants when it comes to intelligence. Seeing as though most mutants in the west coast are gen 2 or non prime gen 1 it proves my previous statement that most west coast mutants are dimwitted. Edit: thought i should clarify that gen 2 mutants are also present in the east coast. Gen 2 being mutants created by ambient fev exposure or created by other mutants eg institute and vault 87

[@rolay7730]

I honestly feel like the problem is that they didn't go far enough with FEV. They mentioned that FEV had dozens of variants, yet we mostly just see it turning people into larger versions of themselves. They mentioned that a weaker version of FEV was airborne, and it supposedly infected everyone in the wasteland. This was to explain why non-vault dwellers became gen 2 mutants, but this could also mean that everyone is infected with a virus that could mutate. The FEV is inactive, but this could mean that I just lives in everyone now as a benign virus. What if in the next game something in the environment could mutate this virus and activate it. I don't mean full super mutants, but a few people closer to the Swampfolk would make sense. Plus, if the virus is mutating, you could end up with anything from a perfect super human to the multi-headed, half-animal centaurs from the first game. Actually, in the first two games, they mentioned that FEV can awaken psychic abilities, a faction/group of enemies that found a way to awaken these abilities would be interesting. Hell, I would even go as far as to say that the mutation serum from 76 could just be mutated FEV. If it can give people psychic powers and make half-dog abominations then why not give people hollow bones and kangaroo legs? There could be an entire game about a faction adding random mutagens to the water in different places to see how the FEV reacts. WAIT. I just realized they made the artificial humans, the synths, with actual human DNA, suggesting they are closer to clones than anything else. What would happen to a synth infected with FEV? They made sure we knew that they had to use the DNA of a non-mutated person with no radiation damage to make the synths. That is exactly the same thing the FEV needs to work on a person without causing brain damage. Plus, they used the DNA of someone who wasn't inoculated by the weaker version. A synth would make the perfect mutant candidate. It is a never-ending army of "primes" to be made into super mutants on par with gen 1. Even if they get infected with any other strand of FEV, they would probably be more susceptible than others, so Bethesda could really make anything happen here. Either way, my point is that FEV could do a lot more, but they keep using the same super mutants because they are identifiable.

[@builtdifferent5361]

The real sin is not letting you show them you are stronger, if they could see that , you could lead them

[@GamesTwiceOver]

The olllld Krogan headbutting treatment.

[@builtdifferent5361]

@@GamesTwiceOver my favourite kind

[@enclavecomms.officer5219]

When I first fought supermutants in 3, 4, and new vegas, I was honestly disappointed. In the original fallout, I would shit bricks if I even saw a supermutant, but in the others it's just "Wooo, free xp"

[@plebisMaximus]

I think Caption said it best when he pointed out Bethesda mutants are literally just orcs. Big, brute, brainless cannon fodder.

[@alexbattaglia8297]

I mean considering Bethesda treats orcs as having the same intelligence as other races and in some cases being highly advanced, then your comparison falls flat

[@plebisMaximus]

@@alexbattaglia8297 I think he meant traditional Lord of the Rings type orcs, not Elder Scrolls orcs, they've a cut above the rest.

[@octodaddy877]

That's kinda what they were in FO1 though. There were only a handful of intelligent ones. I might be wrong, but I think in one of the Master's logs or something it's specifically pointed out that a lot of his test subjects became dumber. What was supposed to be interesting about them was their backstory, but they themselves were big brainless brutes.

[@plebisMaximus]

@@octodaddy877 They were dumb, but they would always have leadership that wasn't. They weren't just roaming murder bands in the earlier games. Bethesda just uses them as a generic mid-game enemy with no real place in the world. The little lore they give them is clearly just stretching to justify using them in place of coming up with a new idea.

[@DieEisteeverpackung]

I played FO and still learned something, subbed.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Awesome, what did I accidentally teach?

[@TinoMSM]

I really hope developers from Bethesda see videos of these kinds. They would help them out with the direction of the game if they were to just listen to the people. It’s sad seeing where fallout is going

[@Kelis98]

I think Super Mutants were done well in 3 (since they fit the setting and had story around them) but not as much in 4 and 76. I do think it would be better to just explain that they migrate or are taken rather than always create another source of FEV every game.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I'm not sure I agree that the 87 Mutants are done well, but I agree their presentation in 3 are much better than 4 or 76, as at least 3's had a legitimate purpose in 3. Though, Strong does give some insight to East Coast Super Mutant culture, so there's that As for migration, the main issue, without the ability to breed, Mutants are very finite. FEV is a limited element, they'll eventually run out and die out. Which why I feel there needs to be an alternative to Super Mutants not reliant on FEV.

[@Kelis98]

@@GamesTwiceOver I meant done well in the sense that they fit the world/story, are explained, and have a purpose. Especially more so that 4 and 76. I suppose it is finite, though I just feel that there are other ways to explain it sometimes, especially when mutants in 2 and NV all come from Mariposa. For example what if instead of having an experiment in 76, a shipment crashed and spilled out, and in 4 perhaps the institute could have gotten samples from vault 87, possibly explaining why they ran out (though them simply using it all does work on its own).

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I think FEV spilling out from a crash would be interesting, actually. But not for reasons of allowing Super Mutants more excuses to exist in a title. It doesn't address their main issue of lack of purpose (which is something we both agree 3 actually gives them.) But what I think a crashed shipment of FEV gives is an instability factor. It'd be a contaminated strain of FEV that any possible creature could fall into. New forms of centaurs, new incredibly gross forms of mutations. And what if they, hilariously, could breed? And make it play integral to, at least, a plot point. A forbidden zone no one dares enter or they witness true body horror not seen since the Master. That I feel would be very interesting.

[@shi77e20]

@@GamesTwiceOver I think the 87 mutants are done pretty well. they are running low on FEV in vault 87 so they search the capital wasteland for other vaults for FEV and just tear up the place as they go along.

[@shi77e20]

@chris mcd i do like his videos, but they are very anti Bethesda with no standing in Some parts. Others I do agree with

[@scalycoronet5198]

I love Super Mutants. I want to see them in the next game. But I want to see them in a very small, story focused way. Same with the Brotherhood. But I’d much rather see a new faction take over. Fallout 76, despite its problems, has some of the coolest mutants we’ve seen from Bethesda in a while, and I think that if they just took a second to breathe and reflect, they could do some great work

[@Strawberry92fs]

Super Mutants are just Orks now. I'm sure Fallout 5 will make them psykers.

[@AusSP]

Fallout 5 dealing with Psykers to a greater degree would actually be pretty nice. But, you know, not so many randomly appearing Super Mutants, and certainly not very many Super Mutants should be Psykers.

[@Strawberry92fs]

@@AusSP Yea, but all Warhammer Orks are psykers and I was saying that Super Mutants are just Warhammer Orks at this point.

[@oddtomato1049]

The Post-Fallout 3 Supermutants don't even make sense. They have no reason to be hostile to humans specifically. And they decide to decorate with spikes and Gore bags, eventhrough this is a style specific to the Vault 87 Supermutants.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

You know, the Brotherhood being genocidal against the supermutants in Fallout 4 is kind of motivated with how they kidnap and eat people in Fallout 3, and how they seek to wipe out humanity in Fallout 4. It is one of those cases were the writing is so bad that it starts to make sense.

[@tinaherr3856]

I think you overlooked something with the Fallout 4 Super mutants. They have a more communal, war based culture. This is primarily shown through Strong, but you can also see a bit of this through their combat dialouge and locations. Strong's dialouge shows that the Commonwealth Super mutants share stuff with each other, and don't have the same squabbles that humans have in some regards. According to him, if a Super mutants finds a better weapon, he uses that and gives their previous weapon to someone else. The Super Mutants also have lines (even Strong) that refer to other Super Mutants as their "brothers". This shows a sense of camaraderie/community, even with Strong, who was thrown in prison for trying to spare Rex (the radio guy). This is bolstered by the existence of Dead Eye, a blind Super Mutant that is still a significant part of the group, despite their major disability. (He still has really good hearing, and raises the alarm for intruders). They also have combat lines along the lines of "We are the future" and, "the age of the Mutant is here!", suggesting a belief that they are the future of the wasteland, the inheritors of the new world. All I'm saying is that don't discount the Fallout 4 Super Mutants, they have a bit of unexplored debt

[@ShineyFace1337]

That's actually interesting

[@lostbutfreesoul]

As an earlier fallout player, I vote Yes. When I left the vault in Fallout 3 only to near immediately run into a bunch of these 'super' mutants, I thought I had been put into a Kobayashi Maru. After a panic volley of shots I learned these things can be taken down by the starting 10 mm with only a few shots. It was the first in many lessons I learned about how Bethesda handles any of the old concepts, and not many of them have been close to respectable....

[@slyllamademon2652]

You need to do a video on the white skinned super mutants discovered in the latest addition to fallout 76 campaigns: The steel reign expansion.

[@atomikcosmonaut522]

Are they as weird looking as it sounds?

[@GamesTwiceOver]

To be honest, I just need time to actually play 76. I'd love to do a deeper dive into it and share what I find interesting.

[@daskampffredchen9242]

Thanks YOuTube for recommending this almost 2years after release. Great video. They were surely underused in 3 (plot wise, there were a lot in number) and in NewVegas it was something special

[@padlowan]

I feel like there could be some more interesting things FEV could create than just "big green monster" (and centaurs if I remember correctly?) , especially when it's used and developed on by organisations completely separate from the master.

[@ollies1235]

i completed fallout 3 with a pair of brass knuckles and the only super mutant that was a problem was the ones with the sledgehammers

[@Gorbz]

In my opinion, Bethesda have taken a "remember these guys?" approach to their wasteland populations

[@SuperMrHiggins]

Pretty much. Bethesda's fallout is just a reminder of fallout. It's not actually fallout. Never played 76 so speaking of four. It's a pity, New Vegas was damn good, so we know that the game can be done well with the changed action oriented gamestyle. Ah well. Best wishes and deuces

[@anton6686]

That's the entire problem with fallout 4. It was a giant remember this from 3. Even their major faction railroad and the institute based on the android quest. It was easily the least inspired and creative fallout game.

[@Gorbz]

It is like they took a surface look at the first Fallout games and just did that but in 3D. Every supermutant is now like Harry. Scorpions now live on tne east coast, because they were in one of the first quests. BOS are there cos the BOS helped in both earlier games, etc.

[@nanomachines2985]

i like a lot of the theories and lore i'm reading in the comment section. a lot of interesting stuff that makes me want to play all the fallouts all over again. including tactics, excluding 76. the problem i have is that while a lot of it seems to be reasonably extrapolated from lore discovered in computer terminals, a lot of it is also the fans doing the writing for bethesda, even if much of it is based on pre-existing lore. i'm not looking for a perfect, 100%, airtight theory or explanation for every single detail, but at the other end of that spectrum, the answer to the video's title becomes a little more... apparent.... like you said at the beginning of the video, super mutants are in every fallout game. to me, it makes sense why they exist in the west. if i recall, fallout 1 went on to say the remnants wandered east after the master died. so it stands to reason that they would be encountered in fallout 2, new vegas, and tactics. but as a "native" population in new england? i grow skeptical of the very concept and premise. it would have been, imo, better if you just found one or two runaway generals, maybe even a rare encounter of a group of them. bam. that's it. but bethesda, for some reason, decided it would be a good idea for the brotherhood of steel and super mutants to be mortal enemies and fight them in the ruins of the old capital. entertaining, and at least fo3 had some answers for why they were around. but necessary? meh. it can be argued/assumed/extrapolated that the FEV is more of a code name for a project in the same way Boeing's X-32 and LM's X-35 were competing for the same "Joint Strike Fighter" contract in real life, which i'm sure is heavily suggested when you look at all the lore put together. still though. it would have been nice to see a new threat to fill the void like they almost did with the yao guai and deathclaws, which is a whole other can of worms i'll wait to get into if i see a related video. i dunno, just some broad thoughts from a fan since fallout 1 first released back in the day. great video!

[@yoyoheads]

Agreed. Having just one unique instance where you meet a few or a group of them and that's it, could have been really interesting and special. Instead they're everywhere, just standing around waiting for the player to come shoot em. Kinda sad tbh.

[@BrettCaton]

In a major facebook fallout group, they were asking what people wanted in the next game. Most everyone said: more of the same, but with more modern graphics I said: Set it on Mars. No supermutants. A martian unique breed of ghouls that can survive without spacesuits, descendants of colonists, corrupted by the radiation, the deliberate use of FEV to survive, and an underground horror that wiped out all life there once before. Make base building about air and water and heat and diplomacy with other colonies, rather than how many turrets you can stack on a pole. Make enemies scale with time, as the foe awakens, and sends forces to conquer the irritating surface dwellers. Then end it with army tactics, the forces you equipped against the foes, the humans and benign ghouls against ancient horrors. Powered armour and spacesuits and blood blending with soil. Depending on how well the army goes, the player can then lead a small assault to take out the big bad. They can still win but it will be much harder if the army did poorly. If it lost, the player will have to fight on home ground, and may lose access to air and water and heat, and unless they have the right mutations or tech upgrades, they will die then and there, but if they completely specialised in sole survival, they can still win when everyone else has perished - and will be left alone on a dead world.

[@mage0534]

Well structured, good info, valid advice. Overall good video, hope your views get better

[@thelonepainter4760]

The problem is they started catering to the kids that play rated M games.😂👍

[@trulybleak4163]

If there's one thing you can always count on Bethesda it's the fact that super mutants, & the Brotherhood of Steel will always be in every single Fallout game. They can make a Fallout game based in China 3 years after the war, I guarantee you we would see Brotherhood of Steel & super mutants because Bethesda does not know how to make cool & interesting factions. When they do make something that is completely original they always end up sucking. The railroad, The Institute, & the Minutemen, are the best examples.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Honestly, I feel the best examples are guys like the Gunners in Fallout 4 or the Fire Breathers in 76. Examples of factions with interesting premises that fall flat -- Gunners are one note, Fire Breathers were killed off before the game even started.

[@trulybleak4163]

@@GamesTwiceOver Honestly that's kind of the issue though. Bethesda doesn't know how to make things interesting that continue to be interesting after you discovered it. The Gunners are just slightly tougher Raiders with slightly better weapons & armor. They have no identity outside of that. They don't feel different they just look different. Same thing with the rust devils which are just OneNote Tech Raiders that we never find anywhere else outside of Random encounters. Same thing with the Talon company. This is just a Bethesda thing. Bethesda Fallout games just feel extremely disconnected to The Fallout 1, 2, & New Vegas offering nothing more than a passing glance at those games. The only reason they added the Brotherhood of Steel, super mutants, The Enclave, scorpions, & deathclaws into Fallout 3 was to trick longtime fans into giving this game a try. It worked, but still. Doing this just makes the world feel exactly the fucking same as everywhere else. Rather than doing something new interesting or exciting they just bring out Old Reliable because it works & it's something that's never going to change because it makes money. I haven't played Fallout 76 I've been thinking about playing it mostly because I think it would be cool to just talk shit about Fallout with the people around me which I think is cool, but at the same time I don't want to give Bethesda money. Either way for the fire-breathers I'll just have to take your word for it.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I have no idea why KZbin saw your reply as possible spam. Weird. I unmarked it so you can fully share your thoughts. But yes, I completely agree that Bethesda has a habit of underdevelping and disconnecting from the world they're writing for. I don't think it's ALWAYS the case, but it's often enough to be notable.

[@Umbra_Ursus]

They do some things well: Assaultrons are well made and fun, Protectrons went from cute to adorable, the Capital Wasteland is actually enjoyable to explore, the Outcasts were a logical faction showing they understood the BOS's original point, and the idea of the Pitt was fantastic. At the least, they seem to hit more good points than, say, Sonic Team can manage. About all they can do is music.

[@trulybleak4163]

@@Umbra_Ursus I completely understand what you mean they do some things well, maybe it's because I'm very harsh. Personally I just feel like for every for every 3rd swing they hit they miss the other 7. The assaultrons are cool although I feel like most people like them for Less then pure reasons like the perverts they are. The protectron becoming cuter was more of a byproduct of how they integrated the design within their World space which honestly is more of an art thing. Honestly subjectively speaking to me the capital Wasteland was okay. A bit too green for my taste, but okay. After all the enjoyment of something is completely subjective. I absolutely despise & loathe bethesda's Brotherhood of Steel simply because of how the community views them more than anything. The outcasts are okay. They really didn't do much in the grand scheme of things in Fallout they were just sort of there and the only time they were ever actually a part of something was during the operation Anchorage DLC. Besides that they may as well not even been there. I guarantee you the reason why they were added though is because they didn't want the old time fans to think that Bethesda forgot about the original intent of the Brotherhood. The pit was fantastic. As well as Point Lookout I would honestly say those are the DLCs that feel as if they are very closely related to the old Fallout, but in a very Bethesda way. It was nice.

[@ded2thaworld963]

Just found the channel and watching the vids now, good shit, so I subbed.🤜🤛

[@ColtNomad]

I would love to play as a super mutant warlord trying to conquer the wasteland with their own army of super mutants, behemoths, centaurs, and mutant hounds.

[@skeletonking2501]

Sounds like a fun minor faction, and a good excuse to have them be liddered everywhere

[@benjaminarnold51]

Super mutants in FO1, 2, and NV: An intelligent race with their own motivations, society, and culture. Served as the main antagonist of the first game. Super mutants in FO3, 4, and 76: Orcs.

[@corruptedmember2568]

I personally think they overstrechted it in F4 and maked it out of sense in Fallout 76.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

I completely agree. Bethesda put Super Mutants in their games simply because they thought most players expect to see them in Fallout games. They make even less sense in the Capital Wasteland and Commonwealth than the Brotherhood of Steel does.

[@wetbedsealand6779]

Super mutants are like a smaller example of the Tarrasque principle, as in a “crazy stupid powerful enemy” that realistically isnt fun to fight or even as hard as it seems- ergo they shine best as a STORY blockade, rather than an actual battle

[@thelaughingrouge]

Yup. Great point.

[@Doombringer_r]

To save you ten minutes: Yes, yes they did.

[@RandomnessCreates]

Bethesda should look to All Tomorrows if they're wanting a humanoid derivative species. Hopefully the concept artists for the next game sees this video.

[@whiteeagle9769]

watch Bethesda put a ripoff Qu as a faction in Fallout 5

[@nathanielturner2577]

In Fallout 76 Steel Reign DLC you do have super mutants as antagonists.

Btw: the yellow super mutants are its own species that are able to turn into behomoths

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I mentioned that. The Institute and Huntersville are also able to turn into Behemoths, it's not exclusive to the 87 ones.

@@GamesTwiceOver my bad.

[@sergeantdornan4386]

I think that Fallout 3 and 4's Super Mutants are acceptable (4's Super Mutants lesser so). As for 76, well I don't think that there should've been any Super Mutants in that games.

[@RubicGirl]

I think there shouldn't have been a game. Period.

[@ShaggyDabbyDank]

Fallout 4's are impossibly dumb in implementation. As many others have said there's just no point to them acting the way they do and with them being previous offshoots from the Institute's experimentation and not being able to reproduce there's just absolutely no reason for there to be as many mutants as there are.

[@Matt-td8xw]

Yeah i get it, they changed them and made them more common, and honestly i agree that they should be changed to a different enemy, but saying they ruined them? It's a really big exageration. I agree with you in many points, but the way you and many people act like bethesda freaking ruined and destroyed them feels more like hate than critsism.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Depends what one's definition for "ruin," especially in terms of speaking about such a subjective topic like video games. But honestly, you sound like you agree more than not. The word choice is meant to be clickbait, not really meant to suggest hate or bias. In fact, my Brotherhood one comes to a very different conclusion than this one.

[@Matt-td8xw]

@@GamesTwiceOver oh yeah, i agree in more stuff that you said than not, like them being suposed to be stronger, being less common and how they became more of an common enemy (when i started playing i even thoght they were normal radiation mutations and not F.E.V.) But as for the title, i imagined it was kind of a clickbait but i wasen't sure since many in this community are really toxic when it comes to 3 and 4 so i thoght that you could be serious about them being ruined. As for your BOS video, i was in the midlle of it when i got the notification, what a coinsedence, and it is pretty good so far.

[@jollygrapefruit786]

Idk but I like their personalities. Clearing supermutant camps in FO3 is literally the only reason I come back to it, because they are absolutely hilarious in their unwavering hostility and yelling.

[@SanchoPlisken]

My major issue with FO4 is that every group you come across is just a different flavor of raider. Gunners, Rust devils, scavengers, and they are all immediately hostile. You can walk around the Mojave, and depending on your reputation, just walk past squads of people who don’t even bat an eye. In 4 it’s like “oh look some guys are standing over there, I’m gonna go see if maybe I can trade”… BLAM! BLAM!BLAM! Well I guess not.

Bethesda Ruined Fallout

[@terrencemoldern2756]

Lol watch “Fallout 3 is better then you remember” you tard. They brought the game back to life in the first place

[@OfLanceTheLonginus]

@@terrencemoldern2756 it’s still got shit writing you bethesda shill

[@terrencemoldern2756]

@@OfLanceTheLonginus lol how you Obsidian shill. Grow a pair and explain.

[@rileyrosswalker]

Very original take.

[@moy_moy85]

The main problem is that Bethesda were too busy paying fan service to the elements of the previous games rather than thinking of them logically or creating new, more appropriate content related to the new story and setting.

[@AxenfonKlatismrek]

In r/Fallout, I posted a post called "Last weeks of Kansas city", where I made Super mutants a faction ruling over Kansas city (they call themselves"New America". Basically king Dexey, largest super mutant in the world since Horrigan. Super mutants are knights of Kansas city (elite warriors), no they aren't killing humans and ghouls, quite the opposite, they are coexisting.) Their enemies are: Brotherhood of steel, Caesar's legion, Dark angels(tribesmen with guns) and cyborgs of vault 54(basically those "machine makes us stronger" people.). If I know how to mod campaigns and model, this mod would use classic

[@SoFarSoGoodSoWhat14]

Forget all that, I just want super mutants you can talk to again :(

[@elder7785]

What Bethesda should have done for fallout 4 Super Mutants is just make them remnants of Vault 87 that move to the Commonwealth like how the Super Mutants in New Vegas are just the remnants of the Master's army from California

[@HoorayForFreeStuff]

To me, Super Mutants have the most potential than any other mob in the Fallout series. Mutants are INTERESTING. They have such a rich story and complicated motives! What I personally want to see is the super mutants given a sense of CULTURE. FNV got the closest to my point that I can recollect, but essentially these are a nomadic people made for obedience and warfare, only turning away from their primary goal with the fall of the master. They could become an oppressed minority, or nomadic wasteland strong-men-for-hire, or a peaceful people working to find peace with themselves after a bloody past; maybe even philosophers, historians, curators! There is so much more potential there than they are now, which are essentially orcs. Let them have and maintain their own unique culture/society! Give them the respect that veterans of the original Fallout IP deserve!

[@BananaGatorProds]

Its incredible that Bethesda went out of their way to distinguish Orcs in the elder scrolls universe to not just be mindless tolkien-esque beasts that do nothing but kill for fun. Then they take the giant mostly intelligent mutant race from fallout and just revert them to being mindless bloodthirsty tolkien-esque orcs. Its like they were scared of being accused if plagiarizing themselves.

[@renaigh]

I can see the Folks at Jacobstown joining the Great Khans Migration, picking up wanderers and giving them care.

[@planning9930]

The argument of they need a purpose is a good one but if you look at it as Bethesda for fallout 4 it’s easy to say that the institute made them around here and now they’re holed up in a few locations and are basically just tougher raiders. Bethesda equally has the same kind of thing going on for basic raiders.. they just kind of are a thing and it would be cool if they where dealt with how they were in new Vegas as jackal gang members, vipers, and fiends. It gave them factions that might have been very similar but based on where you where at they were a different enemy completely. It made it more rewarding when you killed the fiend leaders and people talked about it. In fallout 4 however it just doesn’t matter when you kill all the gunners and raiders as they don’t have really big quests just the radiant minuteman ones that I appreciate but they could’ve made it a much better laid out system in my opinion. New Vegas had a whole twelve or so factions and two big ones and fallout 4 has four big ones and… that’s it. New Vegas just had more systems well put together than f4 does. The reputation, weapon degradation, no legendary system but uniques that made every run have something to chase instead of farming legendaries or just a few uniques that are decent and two guns that are really good. Basically super mutants belong here as much as any other enemy in the game… except for radscorpions as you could say after two hundred years they could’ve traversed the wasteland from coast to coast.. same with any other enemy. It’s nice for you to have a good reason to fight the enemies you have in the game more then oh this exists in the lore so it can be killed. And the super mutants play a small role in the brother hood of this game but it’s like really small about the same as ghouls so… yeah. Morale of the story is that it is what it is. New Vegas just did fallout better but had a lot less time being made to be as long of a game as fallout 4 is. So it is better but a lot shorter of an experience than 4. It would be really cool if the first two fallout games where made as triple A remakes games. Like with flushed out environments and adding new characters it would be amazing with how good those games stories were to experience them in a completely new and much bigger better way. Just my opinion though

[@thejesster5942]

I'd love to see an updated video about Blackburn's Super mutants from 76

[@Wyatt-Foxtecha]

Fallout three super mutants are still some of the most terrifying

[@elsaravista8705]

A very good video my friend, hope you continue with the channel.

[@jacktar25]

It'd be very interesting if the 87 super mutants migrated into an area with pre-existing super mutant settlements. Maybe some west coast mutants and they moved because of anti mutant aggression. There's just more 87 mutants and they're way more aggressive. As in they keep shooting but get close enough and they hound you, shooting and pounding you. You could have some strife with these two different mutant groups. The 87 having found a similar way of making more but the other mutant group is sitting on what the 87 need. Maybe some conflict on how they see unity. Maybe some individuals join the other group and vice versa which would allow for some dialogue to flesh out the conflicts

[@jare3459]

most this things I noticed can be explain through time because in fallout 1 Super mutants wear well refined at peak of power but with master gone their quality would decay without meaning they became weaker over time without no proper upkeep

[@candiedskull9841]

Bethesda can create some really creative and interesting enemies and factions, even if there is not much depth behind them otherwise. They seem so afraid of diverging from what they consider icons of Fallout to come up with new things within the main part of their games (look at how much more interesting _some_ of the enemies are in the dlcs over the base games) Even if they wished to have included some SMs, they could have been so much more interesting as just small clusters of npcs that are there with some real narrative purpose. The inclusion of them in 3 makes sense in one respect (Bethesda had to try and make a Fallout game in a completely different style while still being a Fallout game somehow so they kept the as many original icons as they could), but afterwards less so

[@TheBic4]

My biggest gripe is they had no leader in fallout 3. Huge missed opportunity to have a mutant warlord like gammorin from fallout tactics.

[@thelonesomedrifter5884]

One thing I've always hated about the East Coast (Bethesda) super mutants is how they are always hostile, unlike the West Coast mutants.

[@thelaughingrouge]

And there's WAAAAY too many of them. Hell there's more super mutants then there are actual npc's!

[@fumarc4501]

Same can be said about the Brotherhood of Steel.

[@rustyshackleford3160]

Yes. Yes they have. FEV was only on thr West Coast. Mariposa was a military bass, not a vault. So fev isn't in vaults. They should have did something similar to the Flayed ones. They aren't quite ghouls, but they're so close to them they might as well be

[@TehPiemaygor]

One thing I don't understand is why there are SO MANY Supermutants in Fallout 4. Like, of all the people we know are kidnapped by the institute and replaced by synths, or the towns wiped out by the institute, they couldn't nearly produce as many Supermutants as you see in the game.

[@TehPiemaygor]

@Sweet “What in the Goddamn?” Tea Interesting theory, but no dice. All Super Mutants from previous games show different traits and features based on the particular FEV strain they received. It's pointed out how Fallout 3 Super Mutants are less intelligent than Fallout 4 Mutants, and have yellow skin.

[@NeoDragonCount]

For my Fallout tabletop set in Anchorage around the time of New Vegas or possibly 4, there is an alternate type of Super Mutant used creating an earlier batch of FEV similar to the Mariposa strain. Difference was they were doing early tests with it using POW's and deserters. They're smarter than Vault 87 and Institute Super Mutants, but not as strong as the Mariposa or Vault 87 variety. Also they're loyal to an antagonist faction which I won't spoil.

[@NeoTrash]

Fallout 3, 4 and 76 are just "Vault Dweller and the brotherhood of steel vs a lot of wild raiders and mutants"

[@m.oudekerk63]

they've added some more lore to Super Mutants in 76 one of the things that stood out to me the most was that they could not seem to be able to turn the FEV strain into anything positive no matter how much they experimented with it, I believe one of the scientist even said something that it was almost alive and fighting their efforts or something of that sort

[@ChrissieBear]

3:22 Synthetic organs? You mean what the Institute ended up doing with FEV?

[@Nyghtking]

I can accept the super mutants being in 3, they come from a vault, vault teck was commissioned by the enclave to create the vaults to run their tests, the enclave is comprised of the rich and powerful and has connections to the military, the military created the FEV, so the enclave could have given vault teck the FEV and asked them to make a vault and run some tests, that makes sense. In fallout for it's the institute making super mutants, the institute used to be CIT and had connections to the brightest minds in the world, CIT could have made a request to the military to receive some FEV for testing purposes, that makes sense. Fallout 76 seems to have them for the sake of having them, and unlike with the institute or vault 87 the "experiment" seems to have been just putting it in a town's water supply to see what would happen, or dicking around with test subjects to create new stuff for no real reason since there was already a vault experimenting on people using FEV to see it's effects, and the institute tested it on more people to see it's effects, in addition how would this new group have gotten a hold of it since they would have had to contact the military and the military would already know of two instances of experimentation going on with FEV.

[@Marxon1134]

It seems most common with bethesda that you have to ask "is this detail canon or just laziness in development?"

[@fatalsiege.]

How is the sub count so low with a video this amazing

[@GamesTwiceOver]

The count moved up some.

[@UnseenCulprit]

Pretty much in every FO game you see your normal factions like humans, ghouls, and super mutants but I never understood why they don’t do more for the intelligent super mutants like Virgil, Marcus, Fawks etc their not your typical faction trying to strive for control over the wasteland rather their just trying to find their place in the world in the same way ghouls are but undoubtedly have it worse. Maybe in the next game having them form a group with smart mutants, humans, and ghouls where all contribute and are more helpful than the brotherhood and enclave to the point rumors get spread throughout the wastelands that such a place exists would be a really cool thing to experience

[@rmwf8836]

Here's an idea I just got for super mutants for another Fallout game that takes place away from the coasts (like Texas). One of the Master's original super mutants heads east after the Master's defeat (let's call him Chuck). He finds a source of FEV-I. It is previous iteration of the FEV that turned Chuck, but he does not know yet. Feeling lonely, he convinces a human to willingly undergo turn into a SM, but because it is an earlier strain, it turns the human a dumb SM. Sad to see his friend turn into a monster, Chuck works to recreate FEV-II, which he succeeds, which he uses to turn willing subjects into SM's like him. When the player encounters Chuck, he is old, and his "children" love him for making them strong. The plot of this new faction would be the in the creation of FEV-III, a strain that could theoretically make a SM with the ability to procreate.

[@andrewschiller9735]

Liked the video a lot- hadn’t thought of it before, but man that gameplay from 4 at the end of the vid was incredibly frustrating

[@andrewschiller9735]

Which I know is the point

[@SakuraShirakawa]

A couple things. 1. I agree with the levelling issue, in a head to head fight, with no cover, you should not have been able to beat them with a 10 mm pistol and no armor. 2. As for beating them at a lower level, you have to keep in mind game type. 1 and 2 were isometric with dice rolls, and Super Mutant were heavily favored in the dice rolls due to their power. Fallout Bathesda style is 3d action, you can juke, take cover to heal, and pop in and out of cover. Yes you can, and should have the ability to put up a fight with them, but I will concede it should be a very long fight if you are a low level. 3. At least in Fallout 3 they do give some reason for them. Unlike Mariposa where the Master was breeding them to be survivalists, keeping their intelligence mostly intact. Vault 87 didn't share the Masters goal, or the Masters research in perfecting the FEV virus or the method of using it to the point of creating overly intelligent Mutants. They may not speak full sentences, and have broken English, but you can hear them have full conversations with eachother, and they obviously understand they cannot reproduce and need to capture humans to carry on their species, just not the more deep conversations on Philosophy or higher mathematics. 4. This need to capture to continue surviving and multiplying explains why you can find them so often and in so many places. They were never taught to capture in stealth, they just go out and get what they need.

[@ianshafer64]

This is something I think Wasteland has handled well across the series (granted 1 and 2 were similar, though that gameplay gap is massive). What Bethesda’s Fallouts lack are truly meaningful Raider factions, as in meaningfully different, up until Nuka World dropped. Even then, that difference isn’t as big as the lore perspective between raider factions in the Wasteland series. Despite all being humans, they have some nice lore distinction in terms of motives and gameplay quirks. The Red Scorpion Militia using dogs and dynamite a ton is relatively expected for a raider faction, but the back story of being pissed off at the rangers because their leader and his dog was shot because as a kid he aimed a BB gun at the Wasteland 1 squad felt real. They also tried to bring peace - but they only knew how to be dictators due to lacking empathy. Then you have The Scar Collectors who are awesome in concept and are basically slaver technophiles that turn people into cybernetic bombs, rivaling the original super mutants on the whole assimilation/body horror spectrum, along with the firepower. I just hope we see something unique like those guys show up in future Fallout installments, because at the end of the day, super mutants in function really are just raiders with a spin (granted, a big spin that made them understandably dangerous the originals). Side note, the Reavers in Tactics were honestly a really cool faction conceptually and I’d like to see them worked in.