The Vicious Mind of Edgar Ross - Red Dead Redemption

Edgar Ross is perhaps THE main antagonist of the Red Dead Redemption games, his twisted games ensnare John Marston and force him to hunt down his former allies. In today's video, we'll be answering a simple question: was Edgar Ross a hero or villain, was he good or was he evil? The answer will be simple... surely?
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[@dillonc7955]

Edgar Ross had the most poetic of deaths: Jack met him by a river and Jack kills him by a river. Ross basically ruined the boy's life yet 110% never saw it coming.

[@Fizhy]

It’s a beautiful end

[@LFPman]

I’d like to think all the players who played Red Dead 1 first, were laughing maniacally when Ross leaves saying “Enjoy your fishing, kid”

[@planderlinde1969]

Or funny enough had Ross just left John alone Jack would have probably become a normal member of society. By killing John Ross only completed the visious circle turning Jack into the one thing his parents didn't want him to be and the one thing he sought to destroy. A vengeful outlaw who would prove to be his ultimate downfall.

[@travisswann23]

Both while fishing too

[@thisguy8106]

​@@travisswann23Ross is duck hunting.

[@jaymac7203]

Jack definitely should've said "enjoy your fishing" after shooting Ross lol

[@Fizhy]

He was shooting ducks though tbf

[@Grandpa113]

"enjoy your ducking while you still can old man"

[@jaymac7203]

@@Fizhy Not anymore. He was feeding the fish lol

[@josiahgonzalez942]

Really? They changed it in RDR? ​@@jaymac7203

[@jonpilledsingledad]

​@@Fizhyeven better "checkmate" "but we're playing batgammo-" *shoots him in the head*

[@John.McMillan]

Milton was right for what he did, Ross was just an outlaw with a badge. If it was Milton instead of Ross in RdR1, I'm certain John would have been left alone if being constantly monitored for a while (parole, basically). Ross was genuinely just vindictive and used any excuse he could to do what he wanted.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

Milton was dealing with a Dutch that was less unhinged. As Dutch became more ruthless and violent, the detective agency followed suit.

[@SirDankleberry]

Milton shot an unarmed old man who was already arrested and fired a Gatling gun into a building where he knew innocent women and a child were. He's worse than most of the gang, the difference is he works for the govenment and gets away with his crimes.

[@80VAIN08]

I think shooting a young woman in the head for a chance to escape after killing a bunch of Pinkertons was considered pretty unhinged. Still Milton risked his life when he walked into the gang's camp to avoid killing anyone but Dutch. I doubt Ross would have done that.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@80VAIN08 Well Dutch does the same thing in RDR1, only it's clear he's embraced the insanity. Absolutely clear Dutch is totally beyond reason at that point.

[@80VAIN08]

@@Edax_Royeaux I agree with you when it comes to Dutch's character, what I meant was that from an outsider perspective especially in the eyes of those trying to bring him down, he was always seen as a deranged killer, if anything rdr2's Dutch was probably seen as a lot more unpredictable and dangerous. I think Ross wouldn't have hesitated to take Arthur and Jack hostage or slaughter everyone in the camp

[@channel45853]

While Ross being in 2 is fan service, it also serves the purpose of getting the player to think like Arthur and distrust Milton and his deal, considering the deal made in Red Dead Redemption 1 panning out like it did.

[@TheFanFoundation]

Plus it makes hs death more poetic with Jack being there.

[@justindunlap1235]

I had never played 1 when I started playing rdr2 and I never trusted Milton, I thought The females might get let free, but everyone else would probably get hunted down and brought to justice. Playing them backwards like that was really satisfying.

[@BananaWasTaken]

And the end credits scene really hammers home the idea of “revenge is a fool’s game” since John going after Micah is what set Ross on his trail.

[@ChadOfAllChads]

​@@justindunlap1235It's kind of better to play 2 first because in the 1st one john will start to talk about his past but then go "but that was a long time ago" and just moves on lol.

[@tyb781]

I think it’s the opposite. Ross doesn’t honor the deal because it had already been taken off the table by his dead partner, Milton. Which Ross wants revenge for. Milton already gave John the chance to leave and live peacefully, but he didn’t take it. Now it’s too late, no more deals, and Ross wants revenge against the men who killed his partner. I doubt he knows who specifically killed Milton, just that it was the Van Der Linde gang. EDIT: Actually, since it was Abigail that Milton had in custody at the time he was killed, he probably assumes it was John that shot him.

[@yousefghazal7076]

i love the sarcasm in Fizhys voice when he says "that sounds like a lovely retirement i sure hope nothing bad happens to him and then it immediatly cuts to adult jack marston meeting Ross

[@iceman1287]

To this day, I still wonder why John was getting off a boat at the beginning of RDR1.

[@jamescpapg]

Me too. If you find the answer, let me know as well.

[@Itsnothing389]

Maybe he just come back from Canada or South america after killing Charles or Sadie, and he doesn't mention them because of deep regret and anger towards himself. Just a theory, but its possible, john mentions how there is nothing left of the gang so...yeah.

[@jamescpapg]

@@Itsnothing389 I do not think that's true since Red Dead Redemption came before Red Dead Redemption 2. Unless Rockstar Games had already created those two characters, then I believe that John was simply captured somewhere else and returned to Blackwater to begin his mission to hunt down Javier, Bill and Dutch.

[@Itsnothing389]

@@jamescpapg awesome the conversation has started. R* can use Sadie or Charle as an excuse to why John come in a boat if ever there is gonna be a red dead 3. Like I said just a fan theory. But what u said is interesting where do u think John came from in the opening scene from rdr1?

[@TonyG8992]

Probably coming from Saint Denis, maybe the law had his family over there first.

[@TheHiddenOne690]

Some Fizhy RDR Lore is what I need right now..

[@Fizhy]

[@robertlafrance9974]

@@Fizhy❤

[@trueseattleite6958]

You're so right

[@Yes-Bean]

More like rdr1 Lore but I agree

[@AlqhemyA]

@@trueseattleite6958 The Strokes reference???

[@matiaspereyra9375]

Ugh love the parallelism. An armed Edgar Ross meets a somewhat helpless Jack while hes out fishing, then the next time they meet an armed Jack marston meets a somewhat helpless Edgar while hes out fishing

[@chipmunkcheeks6647]

The exact same gun too

[@Gibbypastrami]

Would’ve rathered a RDR2.5 DLC where we play as a slightly older Jack in an updated map with a bunch of the other stuff promised and hinted at and at the end of it we see him take out Ross…

[@josiahz21]

He was duck hunting.

[@FTChomp9980]

Jack Martson:"U killed my father prepare to die."

[@QuicklyFreeze]

using a man's wife and kid as blackmail is another realm of evil

[@LFPman]

I wonder if it was a take on how some governments operate…not being specific on the country. But it could be possible.

[@cjthebeesknees]

Government is the worst mafioso.

[@Samsonig]

that man is a former outlaw who killed for a living he might be reformed yes but that doesnt excuse the potential thousands he killed

[@Barbarian1244]

​Fair enough but also you still have to put yourself in Marston's shoes you wouldn't like it if someone used your immediate family as blackmail against you and yes it is fair to call Marston out for his past offenses but is it also not an immoral offense for Ross to use John's immediate family as Blackmail against him despite John's past offenses point is there are plenty of other ways Ross could have gotten John to turn against his former partners in crime then using his family as Blackmail.​@@Samsonig

[@Yes-Bean]

That is literally what criminals do

[@theriddler5601]

Andrew Milton can best be described as having a dividing mindset while Edgar Ross has a conquering one. This lore fuels the reputation of these products so thank you Fizhy!

[@-SaintValentine]

The thing I found ironic about the ending's of RDR1 and RDR2. Both of the main antagonist's deaths were brought about because they went 1 step too far. This is assuming the high honor, go with john, is the canon ending of RDR2. But, if Micah didn't go back to beat Arthur and try to kill him. John would've never gone back to kill Micah. If Edgar Ross just left John and his family alone after the death of Dutch, Ross would've retired in peace. But he had to kill John to complete his line of work. Which ultimately would lead to his own death at the hands of the very child he caused so much pain towards. Jack would've never became a gunslinger if Ross didn't push the matter further. Also, John would've remained in hiding, if Micah didn't go back to kill Arthur. Both individuals let their ego's get the best of them and it resulted in their death's.

[@iceman1287]

Realistically, John couldn’t have been able to be in hiding for so long because he lives right next to the very city his gang shot up. Not to mention that he bought his land from there under his real name.

[@cryptotugboat7753]

also milton taking abigail led to his death

[@zcarecro]

7:56 they literally explain why in the epiloge why he decided to settle there. Abigal took jack and left because she didn't want john doing the outlaw thing again. She said how she wanted to have her own ranch at a place called beechers hope during one of the epiloge missions before she left. So john remembered her saying that and tried to win her back by getting the property she told him about

[@ashdondabbs7483]

i mean, yeah. the actual semantic reason for “why” is clear, it’s the logic that’s confusing. what would make john (or even abigail, for that matter) believe that would be a good idea given their history in the area? yanno?

[@zcarecro]

@@ashdondabbs7483 because the story wouldn't happen otherwise

[@Edax_Royeaux]

"BANK LOANS? I got a goddamn price on my head, woman!" - John Marston This Marston fellow makes a good point.

[@ashdondabbs7483]

@@zcarecro it seems like you’re misunderstanding what i’m trying to say here. the question is with their in game logic. think of it like this: if you lived john’s life(it isn’t a video game, it’s yr actual life), what would compel you to live just outside the town you committed one of yr most notorious robberies in? why would you risk that? does that seem like a good idea to you? even if abigail is ignoring the past, would you not feel weary making that move?

[@zcarecro]

@ashdondabbs7483 dude relax im not a game dev i dont have a concrete reason for it

[@johnnysilvercloud4470]

Ross is far worse than Milton. Imagine if he Milton was killed early, at the Jack fishing or at Horseshoe Overlook. Imagine Arthur dealing with Ross more. Kidnapping his ex wife….

[@elderliddle2733]

Ex wife was dead before that. If you’re referring to Mary Linton, she’s Arthur’s ex girlfriend, they were never married. She married another guy, but he died. That’s why she was living in that house in Valentine. As a widow, she couldn’t yet inherit properties from her dead husband.

[@johnnysilvercloud4470]

@@elderliddle2733 ah yes. Still, if Ross kidnapped her, that’s a radically different game we get

[@cosmonauthal7651]

A lot of innocent people would probably still be alive if Dutch didn’t get the benefit of Milton’s mercy but just the wraith of Ross, if we look at this senerio from the perspective of outside the game.

[@fireassassin1688]

The missions with ross in rdr1 are pretty enjoyable. To listen to john and ross hating eachother through conversation was really fun to listen to

[@joenesvick7043]

I like how Ross' first line was to Jack, the one who'll deal with him at the end

[@LowRedemptionCoyote]

He is just an upgrade version of agent Milton. Milton was bad guy trying to do the right thing on the dishonorable and stubborn way, Ross was just evil. He used John and at the end he just got rid of him. He did what Milton could only wish for.

[@nicoffee777]

Don't know bout the last one. It's not like Milton is just a less evil version of Ross, Milton even offered the gang members a way out more than once whilst Ross just fucks them over after using them (seeing John in RDR1) One of them has a (complex) understanding of morals, whilst the other one is as evil as Micah was with like no redeeming qualities whatsoever

[@LowRedemptionCoyote]

@@nicoffee777Milton offered chance to a gang just once at Clemens Point and that was it. Don’t count opportunity that he gave Arthur. And that was more or less just because he wanted job to be done with minimum effort. He didn’t care about anyone. And moral of Ross and Milton is the same. At least the basic of their morality is the same. Milton worked for pay check and Ross worked for the medal. And yes Milton is less evil version of Ross. Shooting unarmed man in the back, shoot out at Lakay with kid inside the cabin and kiddnaping kid mother are not honorable and good things. And one thing more. If you’re an outlaw would you take opportunity from the man who in the same breath telling you that “We didn’t kill all the savages, just so the likes of you could do whatever you want!”. I know I wouldn’t believe him the word he said. And not to mention his superior attitude. Like is the messiah of lost souls and their savior. He was acting like he didn’t saw any criminal in his life. You can win against criminal just with proper psychology or your efforts are for nothing.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

@@nicoffee777 A little far calling Ross as evil as Micah. I didn't see Ross murdering children.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

33:40 No I doubt Edgar Ross claimed credit for killing Dutch. The whole point of getting John's gun to do it was so that it looked like Dutch was betrayed by a fellow gang member so Dutch wouldn't be some anti-government martyr for yet more people to rally around. Ross still gets credit for spearheading the operation that wiped out Dutch's Tall Trees Gang.

[@pghchaos]

Fizhy video drop when I'm having a bad day? Just what I needed. My mood immediately improved!

[@Fizhy]

Hope the rest of your day gets better!

[@DieHardRedemption]

Blackmailing a former outlaw who is trying to erase the past then killing him afterwards is another form of pure evil 😭

[@BL00DYME55]

ikr, when he said Ross isn't evil, he's just the absence of good, I was like bro, he's pure f-ing evil!

[@DieHardRedemption]

@@BL00DYME55 Exactly

[@supercooledits123]

you guys are forgetting that john was a ruthless murderer back in the day

[@drew_lg2132]

I also believe he asked for johns gun to shoot Dutch so he could say Dutch was killed by John which would give him a reason to go after John in the end

[@swedishfarmboy07]

But what do you mean Ross told John to shot him?

[@theseb1979]

They didn’t have that sort of forensics in those days.

[@shoelacedobby3819]

Edgar ross is evil. The morally gray one is milton. He didn't take Arthur because jack was there and he gave Dutch ample time to surrender in chapter 3. But he shot at them in lakay knowing jack was there, and took abigal hostage. Overall he was as good as his job allowed him to be though

[@maxrocketansky]

Milton is evil too.

[@RhadaGhast100]

Milton was evil as well. If you know anything about the history of the Pinkertons than its clear as day. That and Milton did do things that would he considered illegal in his trade, such as kidnapping Abigail. He was also willing to mow down the whole gang at the start of chapter 6 with a machine gun, knowing full well that there were women and children in there.

[@monke1002]

​@@RhadaGhast100 he didnt kidnap abigael, he arrested her, she was a criminal, and the irl pinkerton argument is just stupid, its a game

[@RhadaGhast100]

@@monke1002 I mean I'm refering to the Pinkertons because neither Milton or the Van Der Linde gang are good people their both villians. Game is just told from the pov of the gang.

[@cliffjumper416]

I'm so happy you opened the video with Exodus to America, both the song and mission. Nostalgia strong

[@mkhider_]

Always a great day when fizhy uploads

[@Fizhy]

Thank you kindly

[@guyk768]

3:30 I always found this scene very interesting and symbolic in a way. Jack Marston and Edgar Ross first meeting involved fishing by a river and ended the same way when Jack went after Ross.

[@chancellor1055]

There a line that nobody ever talks about that I always found interesting that is your father killed him self with the life he lived which makes me think did he really believe this and believe all his actions were justified

[@PhoenicopterusR]

He just forgot the part where that applies to himself, too. You reap what you sow, 'n such.

[@LaOñda-1]

“Enjoy your fishing kid” Aged Well You know John could’ve killed Ross at any point or time but I guess that wouldn’t make sense

[@BL00DYME55]

Even if John didnt care about his own safety, his family is the most important thing in his life at that point in the story, so he can't risk killing Ross and losing Abigail and Jack. The only time when I actually thought John could get away with killing Ross is right after Ross confirms that his family is back at the farm. There seem to be no other witnesses apart from Fordham, so he could've just shot them both, and had time to ride back home, get Abigal and Jack to pack their bags and run to Mexico or somewhere else where the law cant get him. But I guess at that point John still believes that Ross will keep his word and leave them alone.

[@ERK_hanna]

From what I remember he didn't break any promises he said until he had no reason to use John anymore​@@BL00DYME55

[@Retro77691]

He works at 7/11 now i saw him last week

[@sohaibgallouch]

Your video quality gets better and better every single video i watch❤

[@doccindy7545]

I love these looks back at the history of the game and the gorgeous scenery during exposition.

[@Xehanort10]

8:51 As satisfying as RDR2's ending is it gets sad when you realise John's doomed himself.

[@PinchiWeeb]

Hearing this at work and even just audio, the whole scene of John's death just played in my head

[@dbxniker7484]

fordham really is one of the best background characters ever written notice how he wasn’t at the murder of john

[@bobbysheila]

Thanks for putting out more rdr2 stuff. It keeps me going mate

[@cardsatanywhere363]

Ill tell you, ive been following your channel since the assassins creed days and these videos truly take the cake for me. Love the RDR lore videos, keep up the good work.

[@GradeEhCanadian]

"First of all you're throwing too many big words at me and since I don't understand I'm gonna take them as disrespect".....if you know you know 😂😂

[@invisibleman686]

40 year old virgin....a person of culture I like that

[@PaulRudd1941]

I have no idea how you make such increidbly detailed videos so frequently. Your editing and writing is funny, insightful, and a real treat for me to come home to and enjoy. Thank you Fizhy. :)

[@blake3656]

Loving the consistency right now mate.

[@Vermillion-ty4zr]

Been playing rdr2 and playing rdr1 again when I get done May not be my first time doing this, this might just be my 100th time playing through these games I lost track a long time ago, but even after that I love and cherish these games the same way I did when I first played them, and my love for this universe will never stop, it’s everything I want from a video game

[@brandonalbaldon2781]

Bro I just put my friend on red dead 2 for his first time yesterday im watching him play and I just love everyone’s reaction to this beautiful game so glad u posted this red dead is one of those games u can’t stop thinking about

[@Bladeslingersgamepreserve]

Really, Ross represents the brilliance of the writing in RDR. Just about every character straddles the line of morality and thus, perception of the these characters is determined largely by the player and their actions. If you play the game honorably, then Ross is a straight villain. No questions asked. However, if you play the game with low honor, basically having John resume the life of a violent outlaw, then suddenly Ross becomes sympathetic. It’s a shame that morale ambiguity has to be ruined by RDR2. The lack of detail regarding what John did as part of the gang made the plot of RDR better.

[@Fizhy]

It is he

[@JaredGoofball]

He is it?

[@JoeVington]

@@JaredGoofballis he?

[@cavedweller420]

​@@JoeVingtonHe?

[@LowRedemptionCoyote]

Yup he is.

[@ChadOfAllChads]

No he isnt

[@travisswann23]

The first head/face of the FBI was J. Edgar Hoover... Edgar Ross, Coincidence? I think not 🤔

[@ShaneReynolds0421]

Fuckin love this channel; keeping the RDR story alive.

[@williambarr318]

I have been really enjoying the Red Dead Redemption 1 content lately

[@pymtech]

your videos are so damn good, great work! i love your dedication to lore

[@Tsudkyk]

I believe Ross intentionally left out Dutch’s name, then once John followed orders he changed the deal to include Dutch. He can’t be sure of John’s loyalty to Dutch since John followed him all of those years. Ross is slowing leveraging John while using John’s family as collateral to ensure he follows orders.

[@lucabrazzi7112]

During my first playthrough I stayed at the bank and killed countless Pinkerton agents , over 150-200 or more for sure , emptying barrel after barrel , couldn’t leave Hosea in the street like that I was looking for revenge but couldn’t kill Pinkerton agents with enough variant way to satisfy that desire About all the scene in the game , this one hits different Amazing video by the way , Fizhy !

[@anubis7king284]

I still replay RDR2 and try different methods of going about doing it. I appreciate this channel for the countless hours of content and investigation of several things regarding the game. I personally use these videos when I replay in order to find things in certain chapters that I didn't know about. Thank YOU Fizhy

[@Lesinator]

From any point of view except the protagonists, Edgar Ross is the good guy. It’s just that we always play an outlaw and he’s very much a lawman. Dutch killed that innocent girl and caused a massacre in Blackwater, and John took the gold the only thing left for Ross to chase after.

[@JoeVington]

None of them are good people though, especially not Dutch or Ross or Milton

[@cosmonauthal7651]

That is how Rockstar wrote the story with this point of view just they made the gang members so god damn likable everyone calls them the hero’s lol.

[@simoneidson21]

@@cosmonauthal7651You are aware of an anti-hero right? High Honor John and Arthur are anti-heroes

[@simoneidson21]

Edgar Ross is far more evil than any gang member except Micah. I don’t give a fuck if they stole from rich assholes who can afford it, the gang had good intentions

[@cosmonauthal7651]

@@simoneidson21 no they are straight up bad guys who are the protagonist objectively speaking.

[@JohnJimMilton]

That rdr piano at the start of the video makes me sad for some reason. I think it must be because we know he will not get a happy ending. Great video as always.

[@truthhurts3524]

Always top notch RDR videos from Fizhy.

[@AlqhemyA]

Another thing linking the Strange Man to John is that during John's second encounter with him in Mexico, he mentions that the law will judge him (something along those lines, i forgot the exact phrasing), and of course, predicting his final resting place on the hill at Beecher's Hope.

[@spaceghost8886]

Off the top of my head I’m pretty sure it’s “I’ll let the appropriate authorities judge my morality when the times comes, friend.” To which the Strange Man ominously replies: “Yes you will… and they shall.” It’s interesting because while John is probably referencing the Law it appears that the Strange Man is perhaps referencing some higher power.

[@chinnzzillanoochie2613]

Haven't watched this all the way through yet but I find it incredibly fitting that the bureau outfit in rdr1 allows you to do anything you want, legal or not considering the ruthlessness Edgar Ross and lack of moral fibre

[@yeirishpotato5710]

Fizhy has such a soothing voice!! I genuinely put some of these videos on like a podcast to fall asleep too

[@CornalReserve]

Yess I've been waiting for you to cover about edgar ross!

[@stitchfan08]

Milton was more reasonable than ross

[@november_victor9693]

Ross deserved a lot worse. I wonder if it was intentional double speak from Ross when he says he will get a medal and John get a medal too (lead).

[@gameplayer8998]

Only person that can milk something and keep it quality

[@ChristopherMoorman]

I'm addicted to watching your red dead redemption 2 videos,I've watched all of them now lol,would love to see more videos.. I love them!!

[@mrnobody2683]

I made up a journal that fills in the gaps from 1899 to 1914 Needless to say he highly respected his partner Got obsessive when he died And tried to get things his way And fought alot of resistance By the end he wanted to get away from his wife Do alot of trips like Mexico Its quite an interesting read....if I ever write it

[@Tsudkyk]

Love these videos! Great story telling, informative and brilliantly edited.

[@alvins.mindset]

I feel like a badass intro to Jack Marston older is him holding a piece of newspaper scrap saying “John martson last of van Der linde gang dead” over Abigail’s and John’s grave and when you press “back” to put it away the iconic rdr guitar string plays

[@Jasongilliar]

That was amazing fizhy, really well done, i enjoyed that a lot

[@Ethanluvzguitar0013]

Best Red Dead video so far! Well done!

[@D_McGeezacks]

Ross: Everyone will eventually pay for what they've done That includes you sir

[@chrisclee6693]

Villain all the way. Even with the differing views on how to live, there is no doubt in my mind Ross enjoyed everything he did to John and the wider gang while a junior with the Pinkertons.

[@simeracerhead3670]

Can never get enough of the RDR opening, magnificent.

[@XtraOrdinar-y]

Oi oi get in son

[@zakirahmed480]

3:25 why does Arthur look so off?

[@JoeVington]

I was thinking that too, maybe a mod?

[@rubenhinze7695]

I loved the ending of RDR1 where Jack Marston said: "I enjoyed my fishing Mr. Ross." and did a backflip before beating him to death with a fishing rod.

[@I_Am_Catholic_Crunch]

Im a simple man, i see Fizhy, i click

[@daa5865]

That man was a special type of evil. I love RDR for dealing with this moral conflict of outlaws not being much better than the law - they all kill, rob and endanger people to follow their goals. No mercy, or just little. John had did what was asked, without much choice. He was forced to do the "dirty work" and then killed without regard because the whole time he was just a means to an end. He killed a father and husband that literally did what they ask of outlaws - to go clean, and yet he didn't let him go because he had this plan of his figured out. Like truly, I watched the games "chronologically ', so RDR2 first and then RDR1, and I was genuinely disappointed and angry at that man for killing John after all he did for him.

[@peterdeyo8539]

Thank you for making these videos! I'm just starting the game in 2024

[@rl9217]

“Enjoy your fishing, kid…while you still can!” “Enjoy not be riddled with bullets…while you still can.” “…what?” “What?”

[@grantnewton4230]

31:30 I think John might literally just be giving Ross a hard time like this is like the upteenth time he’s made him repeat that he has his wife.

[@somedudewhodraws9377]

It was Milton! He had a bad influence on Edgar as I think he was new to the group and followed him everywhere.

[@Xehanort10]

36:17 As much of an ass as Milton was he was just doing his job in trying to stop a criminal gang. But Ross forced John, who'd put his past behind him to go after Bill, Javier and Dutch by holding Abigail and Jack hostage then had John killed anyway.

[@lordedmundblackadder9321]

I think the real commentary is this video’s existence - the fact that we see a man who facilitated the killing of four mass murderers as a villain. Edgar Ross was a hero. We just don’t see him that way because we play as the real villains of the Red Dead universe - the ruthless murderers, thieves, and outlaws of the Van der Linde Gang. Because no matter how idealistic Dutch tried to spin it, that’s what they were.

[@Madmij]

To be fair to Ross, the bureau has never been about stopping crime just managing it.

[@Raiden324]

The one gang member Edgar never counted on was Jack. (not counting Tilly, Mary Beth, Reverend Swann, Pearson, Charles, Sadie and possibly Karen (if she didn't drink herself to death))

[@jaymac7203]

Ross seems like a sociopath and a sadist to me 🤔 He gets an obvious sick pleasure out of torturing John and playing with his emotions.

[@tyb781]

Ross was on a revenge quest for the gang killing his partner. Milton gave the entire gang a chance to leave and live peacefully in RDR2 but they didn’t take it and instead killed agent Milton. In Ross’ mind that deal was no longer an option in RDR1, because Milton had already taken that deal off the table. Milton killed Hosea after he was already in custody, I think that cemented Ross’s mentality in RDR1. In fact since Milton had Abigail in custody at the time he was killed, Ross probably assumes it was John that killed his partner. It’s all about revenge for Ross in RDR1. Furthermore, Marston made the mistake of using the Blackwater money to pay off his ranch. Pinkertons definitely weren’t just going to let the financial beneficiary of the Blackwater massacre go free. People miss that you’re playing these games from the perspective of the villains, and Ross’s motives were as justified as anyone else’s.

[@Coinz8]

Milton looks like Roland Tembo From Jurassic Park 2

[@mrbrightkills]

Ross is the Textbook definition of mundanity of evil. If you had a less skilled writer; Ross would have been some middle man that John would have Buried almost immediately and made the main antagonist a nine foot tall monster of a man with mountains of muscle. Yet here's Ross; Short, portly and gratting voice. He looks like a turn of a century office clerk. Some one you'd bumb into while going about your day and not think twice about him. Ross knows he the smartest and most sinister in the room and uses his badge as a public servant to get away with his sociohopathic tendencies.

[@Noneyo-Bidness]

Rip Van Winkle was the protagonist of a short story, who fell asleep one night and wakes up 20 years later, after drinking heavily with a mysterious character. He missed every event of note in those 20 years, including the American revolution and needs to understand and adapt to the new world. That "Rip Van Winkle" line also shows that the people bringing "civilization" to the West were less cultured and civilized than the "barbarians" they were hunting, since Milton doesn't seem to catch Marston's jest. I believe the "Mysterious stranger" that Van Winkle meets in the story was the inspiration for the stranger Marston meets in RDR 1.

[@Wandering_Nowhere]

Although not relevant to the events, isn't it risky for news outlets to have in essence reveal where Edgar Ross had retired to? I'd imagine he would have made a lot of enemies in his career.

[@Und3rcov3r]

I was about to say Abigail made a bit of a mistake by killing Milton because he might've not bothered John in the RDR1... but then I realized that would likely have ended John, Abigail, and Jack because Arthur wouldn't there to get them out of the gang. So really there was no way to prevent any of this other than Arthur taking the deal when fishing with Jack... but then we wouldn't have this amazing game

[@tobyneill21]

I mean Ross was sorta just doing his job. Spent most of his life chasing the gang. Had his work colleague an probably best friend get killed by someone in the gang.. so I mean he was sorta just doing his job. But he went after John chasing revenge, and what was always said during the game (revenge is a fools game) Ross went after revenge and eventually died because of it… just like jack, he went after revenge and killed ross, and it will probably come back to him in the future an cost him his life too.

[@petermj1098]

Ross is no different than Abraham Reyes. They say they are doing this for justice but they are only doing it for fame and fortune. Reyes is just another dictator despite defeating Allende and Ross is just another thug despite defeating Dutch.

[@ChadOfAllChads]

No he lives a long life. Forget which game but I think it's gta 5 where you can find books that literally are authored by him.

[@splashnskillz37]

19:48 John's humor 🤣

[@DjowZDjowZ-de8xd]

Edger talking about a last fishing trip is very satisfying ❤ .. jack agrees

[@channel45853]

I think someone can be evil while doing good things, and I think that is what Ross is. A bad and sadistic person, a worse version of the already sadistic and bad Milton, whom does good things, such as stopping active criminals via utlizing John to do so. He is also of the view of Law and Order the show, which I think would frame Ross as ok in what he is doing.

[@PunkFriday]

never put the fishing reference together before, awesome.

[@Braydenpratt2384]

what. a jerk bro kidnapped his family and expected john to be a goodie to shoes for the gov naw he a outlaw #outlawsforlife

[@dezperauto]

I remember beating the game at 9/10 years old and not wanting Jack to get revenge. it had been so long at that point and even though his words came way after Arthur was right, vengeance is a fools game.

[@jamesscott2611]

Thank you for your content it helps alot and it's really good love you man

[@batikopssj3557]

Whatever Ross is, John is an absolute idiot for settling near Black Water at first and then stayed on after he saw how Ross abducted his family and used him to get rid of all other gang members.

[@SoapyIsThe1]

Heading to lake don julio to destroy his house so he can’t relax

[@iceluvndiva21]

Wait, wasn't Jack under 18 when he's taken hostage with Abigail? Cuz if so that's abduction of a minor.

[@swedishfarmboy07]

Yeah he was 16

[@winterbalm]

but ross had the job done and who cares about his intentions if he served his country well yet it led him to his death at the hands of jack could have he avoided that fate? he had a dangerous job