Forgiveness Does Not Require Trust | The Dr. Cloud Show - Episode 280

[@nnylasoR]

This is SO good - and finally made it all click for me! Thank you so so much. *Forgiveness is about the past, and is free. Trust is about the future, and has to be earned.*

[@JenniferGlenn-fp7yy]

Some people apologize with a but, an explanation/reason why, or with sarcasm. I don't think people should apologize if it's not sincere and from the heart. It just makes it worst. I have a friend that I know that I can never trust to listen to me. They'll always do what they think is best & tell me why afterwards.

[@martiwalsh2069]

I refuse to carry around the hate and bitterness inside myself in an effort to punish them. I also refuse to trust them again. I will not allow them to continue the hurtful behavior over and over again. I am done.

[@qualityliving7962]

Let me guess-you’re dealing with a narcissist 🤷🏼‍♀️

[@conniemoravec713]

I don’t think you read these, Dr. Cloud. But, I have just got to say,…I SO appreciate you and how you communicate these truths

[@tearthangel373]

Responsibility, Accountability and Trust need to be proven when broken multiple times

[@fmtforme]

This is so true!

[@tearthangel373]

Forgiveness is a free gift and Trust needs to be restored when it’s been chronically broken by lies, Deception and betrayal

[@aimeew2762]

Wish I would've heard and learned this much earlier in life but learning now is better than never learning it. Thanks for this teaching.

[@fmtforme]

Thank you very much for this video. This is an important point to make in the healing process of forgiveness; forgiveness does not necessarily equate to trust.

[@Jennifer-wx9ih]

God bless you Henry Cloud. Your teaching has set me free from condemnation. My church teaches us that forgiveness equals reconciliation. They use Bible verses like "love your enemy" or "turn the other cheek."

[@jackilynpyzocha662]

Forgiveness does not require putting up and shutting up.

[@jackilynpyzocha662]

The perpetrator is the worst offender, in many ways, Dad, the narcissist. He expects forgiveness and forgetting, so he can continue to get away with his s... I am fed up with his version of forgiving and forgetting!

[@jackilynpyzocha662]

He expects me to be grateful for the abuse. He has a serious attitude problem, none of it is my fault.

[@jackilynpyzocha662]

If I complain(I do, rightfully), he takes a condescending, controlling, lecturing tone. It won' work with me. He invalidates what I say to avoid blame/responsibility, and dump that responsibility in my lap despite my unwillingness to take the blame, then, he expects my silence to back up his horrible treatment. He calls it "loyalty". I don't owe him anything! I wish he would grow up and shut the hell up from giving me his unsolicited opinion/criticisms. He thinks he's perfect. No. He takes the controlling, lecturing, tyrannical tone. It is infuriating! He is beyond pathetic!

[@jackilynpyzocha662]

He uses our shared Catholic faith to manipulate me. It won't work. I am not impressed with or by him. He has a vehicle, I don't. He expects me to go to Mass in all kinds of weather. He is unreasonable! It's none of his business if I go to church or not. I don't ask for his opinion, he gives it, as if he is superior. Only supremely irritating to me, with his attitude. I'm not perfect, but I don't lecture him.(especially with unsolicited opinion.) I wish he'd man up, grow up and keep his opinion to himself, it hurts me, he doesn't care about my feelings. Ow.

[@juliejen2605]

This helped me with my issues of forgiveness. Because some believe that if you really forgave them, than you have to trust them again and they don't have to earn your trust. You have to automatically trust them, even though they haven't earned it. Because they believe in forgive and forget. So if you forgave them, you should move forward as if they did nothing to you. So don't set boundaries and just trust them again.

[@tearthangel373]

I forgive myself for not identifying the RED FLAGS 🚩

[@Fabulousfifties_bestever]

Thank you Dr. Cloud for this message. My step-daughters and I have never had a good relationship… they don’t like me because I married their dad and I am a Christian (they are professed atheists). They are very toxic and mean to me and their dad, which has caused me to feel much resentment towards them. It’s good to hear that I can forgive them but don’t have to trust them.

[@meridycoetzer2834]

Keep doing good that is wonderful!

[@fgbowen]

So sorry to hear of your situation here. Blessings of Christ - and His Peace to you and your husband

[@chrissemenko628]

My whole life changed when I forgave my dad's murderer. They don't even know they've been forgiven. Thx. Christi P.S. You're a GOOD man.

[@katiecrane2605]

Huge! I have been trying to communicate this principle to family and friends for the last month! You say it so eloquently!

[@janahickey6783]

I pray God blesses you for your great contribution into my life. Thank you so much!

[@SteveStanley-c7p]

Forgiveness and Trust are two different things!

[@annasmolla2367]

Thank you Dr. Cloud!!!! For helping me to move on and live a wholesome life, remarried and thriving!!!!

[@DanaD-er8dn]

I so appreciate this and I appreciated your trust webinar. My Christian conditioning has had me believing that aligning God's gift of forgiveness and grace with wickedness (by trusting again) was the same as forgiveness ie restoring the person to the same position in my life despite repentance. Funny I never heard Luke 17:3 preached either...

[@juanitaseekola1093]

Dear Dr Cloud. I came across your podcasts by accident whilst looking for another motivational message. I was on a reflective weekend just after finding out my husband wanted a divorce. It felt like I was loosing my mind, until I found you🙏🏽Your podcasts have truly helped me through this traumatic experience😢😢

[@meridycoetzer2834]

Thank you so much Dr Cloud! Finding you is such a gift from God..

[@jackiegregory4515]

I love your teaching gift

[@DrPhilGoode]

Some Christian based counseling holds forgiveness up like a carrot to abused spouses that feel trapped worrying about forgiveness. Safety should be first priority. Proverbs 31 ministries has a quote somewhere that says something like .. “keep them (abuser) close enough so you can forgive them on your way out if needed”. WHAT?? Do we really think God is watching abuse saying “don’t you dare leave. Not till you forgive him”. Not to mention people with certain personality disorders that see forgiveness as a way to continue the abuse.

[@marshahinson6930]

Thank you Dr. Cloud! 💖💖💖

[@camuyana]

This video just came at a time where I knew that the decision that I made was the very correct one. I did forgive and Left Behind the resentment but I absolutely cannot trust anymore due to the repetitive Behavior without recognition and repentance. Thank you so much because I have not Cine Video sell well explained about forgiveness and Trust.

[@sh6460]

Forgiveness free, trust is earned. Church leaders bought ex and dad's excuses, but they are still not trustworthy.

[@roberthiggins2252]

13:48 "Forgiveness is free. Trust is earned." You mean I should fire the employee that keeps stealing out of the cash register even though he keeps saying he won't do it again?

[@algobo]

Fantastic video, thank you so much! I used to be unable to put 2+2 together. Only a while ago when I learned that forgiveness is not the same as reconciliation, and that it is possible to forgive but not trust at the same time, I started to be able to have healthier relationships. It was a bit of a either-or idea thar I had about these fundamental principles. I think these conversations are some of the most important there is. Life is complex and one thing does not necessarily mean the other. I used to think "I forgave then so now I have to trust them because otherwise I would not be forgiving..." - Thank you SO much for your video, I loved all the examples, they make so much sense! Thank you👏👏👏

[@christsgrain]

Thankyou this is so very helpful on so many levels.

[@DonnaOlalo-rw6ft]

Thank you!

[@rdbeckett590]

Excellent video on forgiveness!!!! Thank you! ❤

[@michellenel7171]

Your work is awesome and been helping me so so much . God bless you.

[@zuuumbaaa]

18:6 I have an issue with what you said here. “If they say ‘sorry, you’re right, I won’t do that again.’ then we hit reset and we give them another chance: 70 x 7.” You equated giving them another chance with forgiveness, even though those are 2 different things. We are always called to forgive (meaning, letting go of their debt) but we are not always called to give them another chance. That’s not what forgiveness is. That can confuse people and make them stay in an abusive relationship.

[@pamelaruth7400]

when someone who hurt you insists that the most important element is whether they intended to hurt you or not this is not what true remorse and repentance looks like when someon who hurt you insists that you must forgive them because they didnt intend to hurt you and that by forgiving them you must be satisfied that you both can continue on as if it never happened this is not a remorseful or repentant person if you can give forgiveness do so but also protect yourself from further harm by recognising that they need to earn your trust and you are not ever obligated to accept an apology, forgive, forget, trust, or continue in the relationship just becuase they say they feel bad but never meant to hurt you

[@marymorse7467]

There are those that never meant to hurt anyone. We as humans do that, and really are sorry. But, it means nothing to the other person. That adds to more damage.

[@algobo]

We also deserve our own forgiveness. It helps moving forward and be a better person. 🙏🏻

[@marymorse7467]

There are those that cannot keep things to themselves. And do themselves even more damage by hurting and inflicting pain deliberately on the one that never meant to hurt you. And I do mean never meant to hurt you. Now no one trust anyone. Can’t even talk it out.

[@kendramcknight5219]

I can see your point regarding never meaning to hurt a person, we are humans and we make mistakes, however when someone says that you hurt them, you don’t get to say that you didn’t hurt them or it wasn’t your intentions to hurt them because it’s not about your intentions, it’s about the outcome of the situation and if the outcome wasn’t good you may want to rethink your intentions and admit your wrong and sincerely apologize to the person and ask for forgiveness. Remember it’s not about your intentions, and saying you didn’t mean to hurt someone, but not taking accountability makes you justify and defend your actions.

[@take2rollem]

Thank you for the clarification.

[@horsehorse4595]

Forgiveness...yes always...

[@lyndseymeagenlivingston7110]

“Minuscule English Pea.” 🤣😂😅😂 How has no one else commented on this brilliance!?

[@jackiegregory4515]

Yey this is so good

[@teddyboy252]

There are good recipes that work!

[@JLang-bn3hs]

I think that the truth is the most important thing here. How can you forgive someone when you don’t know what they have done?

[@yayjesus4522]

Amazing.. thank you and God bless you.

[@tearthangel373]

He will need to Prove that he is Trustworthy

[@tearthangel373]

I don’t choose to be a doormat anymore Even though I forgive and I can maintain my healthy boundaries

[@error60091]

Thank you for this video... your analogy of clock time in explaining the difference between forgiveness and trust helped me better understand the fifth commandment/ Eph 6... God bless!

[@ssutherland9019]

Excellent content!

[@lanorabousfield7995]

Yes, I love this, but there if your in a cycle with someone and nothing changes, where do you stop the cycle? I go round and round with my Sister forgive, give a little, then bam there it is again. It’s like insanity to continue on. I forgive her now, but I choose no contact. Because the cycle just starts again.

[@sandywilliams848]

Curious, as well. Lately, I have been wiping the dust from my sandals.

[@leonaperdue8784]

That’s good. Forgiveness does not require reconciliation especially if you are in a toxic pattern. Otherwise you would never escape a destructive or abusive pattern

[@teddyboy252]

Dr cloud God gave us the herbs for healing

[@Uriah-r9m]

So how do you forgive someone who lied and cheated from day one of a 40+ year marriage. They still lie about times, people and details and still want to be critical of everything I do? How do you forgive and move on? How do you forgive and stay together for the kids and grandkids?

[@iCa11]

Brilliant 👍

[@kombuchababy6542]

I don't want revenge. I want an apology. I want the apology in order to heal and reconcile.

[@ladyketurahinwaiting]

You can heal without an apology. You may never get one. Are you willing to forfeit your healing and Abba’s good plans for you (Jeremiah 29:11) by refusing to forgive and move forward without an apology? If you base YOUR healing, or lack of it, on THEIR actions you are still giving them control of you and your life.

[@kombuchababy6542]

@@ladyketurahinwaiting Yes, I am already healing now. It's a family member and I'd like an apology so we can reconcile and rebuild trust.

[@DAClub-uf3br]

What is the point of forgiving someone you don't trust? Forgiveness is needed to continue the relationship. If you don't trust someone why would you want to continue that relationship?

[@jennifereason1884]

There's no need to continue a relationship with someone who is not trustworthy. Having a relationship after a serious issue arises is reconciliation and reconciliation is separate from, and not a condition for, forgiveness.

[@lisacurtis8162]

He doesn't care if I forgive him or not. He'd prefer that I didn't so that I'll be tied up in emotional knots.

[@horsehorse4595]

I use the psychiatrist rule of threes.

[@iCa11]

Apparently forgiveness is never deserving

[@angeladraper6960]

What does forgiveness look like when I wasn’t treated bad, but my opinion my husband wasn’t treated right

[@tearthangel373]

He has to prove that he can be Trusted with legal and financial information

[@tearthangel373]

I cannot work out a Covert Passive Aggressive Narcissist Abuse done to me with a Juvenile Mentality

[@wakeupalready2099]

Could you do a show on how to keep forgiving a mom when you’ve been forced to live with them since this world changing scamdemic and how to keep walking in love with her when she will never apologize sincerely when she actually does apologizes and how she blames me her daughter for her attacking me in the first place I literally walk on eggshells she seems to get mad At me for everything and anything it’s been this way my entire life but I’m not understanding how to keep anger out of my heart when this is a daily thing

[@user-gx4wi4cv2m]

If you’re old enough then move out. If you aren’t, find a good mentor; then create boundaries with your mom. You don’t have to be around her if she’s treating you wrong.

[@fgbowen]

3:13 - I'm listening - 100% - I hear, & agree - and am thankful. Here's the situation - The devil has literally surrounded me with people who think They Don't NEED forgiveness. Ya-Can't-SAY "I Forgive you"... Lest you get WOMPPED On the Head by these people - Or knocked on your @$$ - So... I live in this Constant State of having to Be Around these people who, in my humble opinion, are abusers - (but they'd REALLY kick-yur-you-know-what if you accused them of-something-so "astoundingly" wrong!!!). I Can't Stand up for-the Truth for-Fear of being acCUSED by an Overwhelming and Deeply Entrenched Defensive Controlling and Prideful spirit. It's 6am, and I'm so exhausted - I can't listen to more here, though I Know I'll Agree w ALL of it - will return later. NO I'M NOT SAYING "FIX *THEM* DOCTOR" - I'm not saying that. But I believe you know that already. I AM asking what I should do about the situation I am in - which, I realize you are not yet 100% aware of, EVEN though I Believe you are Brilliant and SO so smart - but I'll stop there. If I Could Pay you $500 for simply Reading my comment... I would. Verbose note: Studied Pr 18 this morning - did you? ( : Love you brother- We All do. Thank you SOOOO much... For Clarity.

[@shala604]

How do I get past this when I'm looking at his new baby from the AP. I don't know if I can deal with this every day for the rest of my life . I'm almost 50 I don't want another child .

[@RvRestoration]

But when someone KEEPS doing the hurtful behavior you can't look the other way as if they changed. SO no. It is IMPOSSIBLE to forgive when the person will not change the hurtful behavior they wont so you have to stay away because a narcissist will take that forgiveness as if they dont have to change. Though you cant control that person, you are against that bad treatment.

[@johnchacko1425]

what about being a doormat

[@tearthangel373]

I need to see the legal paperwork

[@tearthangel373]

He withheld and lied too many times

[@tearthangel373]

Marriage is a different context

[@alisonrichardson6630]

You can still forgive them for the past, its just you have to put boundaries in place in your relationship until they learn to behave in a way that you can trust them. As Dr Cloud said "forgiveness is a gift, trust is earned" even in marriage

[@tearthangel373]

@@alisonrichardson6630 He already divorced me and said the he did not agree with the book, “Worthy of Her Trust”

[@tearthangel373]

Jesus wiped it out and in a Sexual intimately Relationship this is different as I need to Trust to feel SAFE

[@beyondandback]

Vvvvvv v😢

[@jennifertomlinson7726]

Thank you!