Future Dutch Submarine: Naval Group's Conventional Barracuda

[@obud3777]

Congratulations to Naval Group for winning the Dutch submarine contract! 🎉🎉🎉

[@carisi2k11]

So basically naval group are going to give the dutch the attack class.

[@ms-lazuli7435]

Not given but sold, then these submarines are absolutely not yet in production, and in any case it is the Dutch who choose not Naval Group or France.

[@carisi2k11]

@@ms-lazuli7435 I meant in there proposal. There proposal is pretty much an Attack class is what I meant.

[@ms-lazuli7435]

@@carisi2k11 Yes, it is possible that it is the Attack class, we will see in the future. Wait and see :) In any case I am curious to know which submarines they will buy!

[@7macfly2]

They have a product for export, its their right to sale it Do you complain because someone else have the same car than you ? Do you complain because the americans sold f35 to the british and to belgium ?

[@forgivemenot1]

@@7macfly2 I think what was being said is that Australia basically paid for the design development for the conventional version of this nuclear submarine plus the withdrawal fee, and that development is being used by Naval Group to sell it to the Dutch. Nothing was said that the French company can’t do it, they are perfectly fine in doing so.

[@antibash691]

Best choice for the Dutch Navy

[@blue280485]

Hope the Dutch choose Barracuda Class Subs with FC2G AIP + Li-ion Batteries

[@ronaldmarcks1842]

Cool. OK, I basically like anything with the word "submarine" in it.

[@bikesfrench8524]

The best Higt technologie

[@lordtemplar9274]

Naval Group Barracuda confirmed and signed. Dutch courts threw out TKMS ridicilous attempt at scuttling the deal. Sour Krauts 😂

[@georgeparousis8128]

THIS IS THE FUTURE SUBMARINE FOR THE HELLENIC NAVY

[@JustinSCampbell]

This is just the sub the French were going to build for Australia.

[@cassougharbi6284]

And so !!! France can build Those naves and deliver !!!

[@BeKindToBirds]

France will no doubt sell these to dozens of countries. Germany seems to have the smaller sub market and most countries simply cannot afford their own program.

[@stitch77100]

Not really. The Attack class was a US-French cooperation: with the hull and propulsion from Naval Group, and the armament and combat system from Lockheed Martin (up to 80 or 90% of the contract cost actually, iirc) so this one will be quite different inside, but will look very similar if you look only superficially.

[@lordtemplar9274]

NL says "build me 4 subs and Australia is going to pay for the design" 😂

[@HENRIWILTBERGER]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@gondes3120]

Hopefully in the future Indonesia can buy this submarine after buying Scorpene

[@ATH_Berkshire]

Just don’t ask them how close this proposed sub is to the one ordered and cancelled by Australia.!

[@brunol-p_g8800]

Well, the one ordered then cancelled by Australia was French and was the same, so of course it is the same. NG sells the Attack class with French sensors, combat system and armament, but it can be tailored to the customers needs and fit any combat system and armament the customers want, like NG did for Australia with US combat system and armaments.

[@stitch77100]

Given that the Attack class submarines were supposed to have only the hull and propulsion system from NG, the rest being installed by Lockheed Martin, I'd say that it will look similar, but only from the outside. So, quite different in the end... (The Attack class subs were supposed to have a US combat system and weaponry, as per Australia (the RAN) request)

[@bertnl530]

Then it is great that all the work put in studying and designing the boat ain't thrown away.

[@sebastienleblanc2708]

Red CUDA Frog 1 ! Belier !

[@jouniairplanevideos]

The Dutch doesn't need long range as #1 requirement. They want subs like the Walrus class, wich can go a bit further, wich has cruise missiles (Tomahawk) and ofcourse modern advanced technology for it's low level operations within water like an lake or like the North Sea. Navals sub is very big (88m?) While our subs are much smaller. Saab and the Germans also use an big sub as base concept. Also we want a closer relationship with Saab. So maybe Saab is the best?

[@kevinvandal8595]

The Walrus is a blue water sub with brown water capabilities. It needs also able to operate independent in the Caribbean sea.

[@jouniairplanevideos]

@@kevinvandal8595 i know, but they have it as an #1 priority. Saab and germany doesn't

[@kevinvandal8595]

That will give NG a extra + The Dutch need a long rang sub

[@dwwolf4636]

Err. Walrus replacement are basically going for the A klasse as per the dutch defense brief now. Costs are NOT important anymore. Previously things were looking like the B klasse requirements were to be leading for the tender.

[@starbase218]

We do have a long range (expeditionary) requirement.

[@peterjansen7854]

Same everywhere To much talk.Take farr to long before launch.Australia is in same boat.Patch up old Subs and open to danger.

[@edkrach8891]

Sell the four Walrus class to Taiwan. They can use them until their own subs get built.

[@manuellangius2896]

Operation area, med, indian ocean, atlantic ocean and maybe north cap...duhhh the Dutch need a submarine specialy for the north cape!

[@whitebeauty759]

The Dutch Navy is the best of the best in the world. 🙂

[@sulivanboris784]

No

[@Thunderworks]

No 😁

[@aussienscale]

That's why they are buying French submarines designed for Australia 😆

[@peterjansen7854]

Who said🤔🙄

[@Haeruna]

​@@aussienscale bro, the proposals haven't even been made yet, the MoD just recently sent them the quotations. The Netherlands obviously doesn't have the best navy in the world, it has some very specialized knowledge and capabilities that aren't available to other countries, like BMD and their current conventional subs. But they're not buying French/Australian subs.

[@evmollet5418]

So they knew this one year ago….? 🙄

[@lordtemplar9274]

The SAAB and TKMS offerings are good for brown/green water environments like Baltic Sea which is what they were designed to do and where their experience is built on. If the Dutch want long range then Barracuda seems to be the best choice, as well as more capability like cruise missiles, pod to send commando teams, etc.... But somehow i have a feeling that Berlin will decide for the Dutch 😈too bad for the frogs and the IKEA people ☺ To be continued ....

[@gustavostensson1048]

I believe so too, the f126 class fritages buys enough political will to go for the German sub. Although I believe the saab- damen is the best for the Netherlands over all. But we in Sweden need bigger surface ships aswell since we are joining nato, so an industry exange with Sweden isnt of the table either

[@manuellangius2896]

@@gustavostensson1048 i have a good solution ( iam from the Netherlands:) 2 Swedish and 2 German subs :)

[@gustavostensson1048]

@@manuellangius2896 that would be nice, but unlikely :)

[@fabr5747]

Sure, small countries have absolutely 0 autonomy and are not able to decide what their own interest is right? How arrogant it is... By the way, Saab is by far the leader on this program because of its partnership with the main manufacturer, Damen !

[@dominationsrebellion6433]

TKMS is for sale

[@WikiWijaya-ul3cm]

🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩💪👍

[@0tb16]

I think this might be punching a bit above the Dutch navy’s weight sadly.

[@lordtemplar9274]

Yes and more costly compared to offering from competitors. At the end of the day it will depend on what role the Dutch Navy wants to have. As i see it, you have 2 very different types of vessels here: 1. a local/regional patrol/defense role 2. an expeditionary platform meant to project power. Not sure i see the Dutch Navy projecting much, unless they plan to change their doctrine. My 2 cents

[@Mourning1984]

@@lordtemplar9274 The Dutch Navy doesn't operate as say the German Navy as close to shore navy and operates (far) outside of Europe and thus doesn't need a coastal SSK submarine. The Walrus isn't a coastal sub either, but it DOES have the capabilities to enter undeep waters and go on either insertion operations with their Marine Corps Marsof special forces or on intelligence operations. The Royal Netherlands Navy wants to keep both that insertion and intelligence capability, aswell as the range to operate in the Caribbean for example (where it still has overseas possesssions). Let's also not act like the Dutch haven't gotten a lot of experience when it comes to diesel subs, providing training to amongst others subcommanders of other (NATO) nations.

[@rolfneve]

@@lordtemplar9274 actually on drugs. The Dutch navy operates almost exclusively outside of home waters. This includes the submarines.

[@manuellangius2896]

The Dutch Navy will probably buy the Barracuda`s and will use US intergrated weapon systems for the Tomahawk and MK48adcap torpedoes. It was in the news yesterday.(here in Holland) NAVAL is the cheapest bidder until now. 5 Billion Euro est.... in March the Dutch gouvernment will make a choice....

[@Blackmoon9u9]

Is morocco going to buy some scorpene?

[@Idkforyouble]

1st

[@briananthony4044]

So Australia puts billions into the Attack class conventional submarine based on the Barracuda, then with the change of government to Labour in Australia, Australia pays almost a billion more to NG as compensation for cancelling the program, than NG offers the class to the Dutch. I wonder how much of the Attack class was French and how much was US technology?

[@Itachi951000]

The Attack-class is a French design. It is the combat system and armament that was going to be American (with Lockheed Martin as main contractor) as per Australia's request.

[@brunol-p_g8800]

The Attack class is French, but Australia particularly requested a US combat system and armament. The Attack class sold to other nations is entirely French, with French sensors and armament, like the one sold to Australia, but can be converted to US or indigenous combat system and armament like NG did for Australia.

[@astralechat5994]

Most likely itar free so no US technology

[@BeKindToBirds]

Australia needed a nuclear submarine. They were stuck between several bitter pills to swallow, risk the sovereignty with a conventional platform and build nuclear infrastructure, sail the boats all the way to France to have nuclear resets, or build themselves which was out of the question but also desperately needed to maintain their own expertise. Then UK and USA did something unprecedented and all joined together as one brotherhood over nuclear weapons. They gave Australia an absolute golden ticket to getting nuclear submarines and their own home infrastructure of the highest standard faster than would have been possible alone. No party did anything wrong, French submarines are still excellent. France basically is where Australia wants to be in a few decades because France has her own home infrastructure when this decision was made under controversy many decades ago. Nuclear proliferation is not something done casually and nuclear submarines are not something that acts like other political events. You cannot judge these things so casually like it is your friends argument.

[@BeKindToBirds]

And France will no doubt sell many of these to many countries, as they would have done after delivering to Australia. They were merely meant to be the first customer, not ever the only one

[@dwwolf4636]

I don't think this is going to happen. Toofew hulls to spread the costs of a very involved R&D programto change the subs from nuke to conventional. Sweden or Germans are going to get it. The Dutch werent happy with the final specs for the french minesweeper design either that won the Belgian/Dutch program.

[@brunol-p_g8800]

If the Dutch weren’t happy with the final specs of the minesweepers why did they buy it? The specs of the minesweepers, were those chosen by the Dutch and given to NG.

[@JABN97]

News brook this week: it appears the RNLN will be partnering with Naval for its new subs

[@cassougharbi6284]

Les hollandais font le bon choix ! Les anglais et les américains ne pourront leur fournir leurs bâtiments avant des décennies !!!! La France a la capacité et la technologie de leur fournir ce dont ils ont besoin !!! L’Europe de La Défense c’est la France toute seule qui est en train de la créer ! Avec son armement tous horizons

[@stealth.hawk.]

Il faut que la France puissent fabriquer des chars, le fameux EMBT Franco-Allemand ou dans les pires des cas le Lerclerc XLR du programme scoprion prévu initialement Et de rattraper son retard sur les drones de combats (low cost) et ça serait parfait pour en fabriquer massivement et les exporter a nos partenaires européens

[@obolobol-hz1vg]

Le marché des sous marins est très concurrentiel en Europe. Il y a 4 ou 5 pays producteurs. All fr Suede Espagne entre autre

[@sixpackpilot]

Let's hope both countries learned from the Breguet Atlantique operational disaster: the last time the Dutch navy bought French. Logistical support was very lacking back then and bad translations of manuals into English led to many maintenance and operating problems, with mishaps, crashes and planes not safe to operate as a result. Let's hope the language and (defence) cultural barrier has decreased enough for it to not be an issue anymore. Lots has changed since then: let's hope French Naval Group and Dutch Royal IHC work well together and make for a smooth design, production and in-service support experience for the Kon.Marine.

[@alainfilho1467]

Ils travaillent avec le meilleur produit.... vive de GAULLE...et le RAFALE mauvais AVION ah sh ah😂😂😂😂😂😂​@@sixpackpilot

[@manuellangius2896]

Iam a taxpayer in the Netherlands and go for the 4 IKEA subs:)

[@alainfilho1467]

Une bonne contribuable mais son argent sur le meilleur produit et le meilleur produit c'est le BARRACUDA .....😂

[@manuellangius2896]

@@alainfilho1467 Ici, aux Pays-Bas, nous préférions le sous-marin A26 Damen Kockum... Les contrats français posent pas mal de problèmes.

[@stitch77100]

​@@manuellangius2896 so the French contacts have issues, unlike the US ones (for example, F-35 ? ;) ) I know the French don't have the most reliable reputation, but they are pretty much on the same footing than the other to be honest. Not really worse. And believe me, they do appreciate having partnership within Europe. It's becoming very rare to have European countries choosing European defense products (just look at the AA defence program from Germany : one German missile and two systems from outside of EU, while their is an Italian-French missile right there too)

[@manuellangius2896]

@@stitch77100 the Dutch navy bought 4 barracuda's blacksword, mk48 adcap, tomahawk missile, Kongsberg NSM, and mines..next week our government will sign together with NAVAl.

[@alainfilho1467]

Vous aimeriez mieux un sous-marin CONGOLAIS...????😂😂😂😂

[@lexburen5932]

We decided to go with Damen - Saab submarine. With Swedish and Dutch technologies

[@Itachi951000]

The winner of the tender is already announced? Or is it just rumors for now?

[@Prometheus4096]

There's no Dutch technology inside the A26 Swedish sub. Also, the Dutch picked Navel Group. The others are short ranged subs that the builders tried to make long range. It is not gonna work out. Both Swedish and German subs are 50 meter long torpedo only shallow water subs. The French sub is twice the size, long range, deep water, ocean-ready. And comes with all types of cruise, surface to air, anti ship missiles. And special forces capabilities. And the French are already operating Barracuda class right now. So it is basically off the shelf rather than a design only on paper.

[@alainfilho1467]

​@@Prometheus4096super analyse 20/20..

[@christinarodriguez7508]

The dutch navy will chose the Saab -Damen design. Naval already lost the bid , the same for the german Design . The Saab-Damen will incorporate Dutch and Swedish expertise and experience , the Baracuda not the best option to much tinkering to make it even close to the walrus class . if you have to add extra facilities for hot water and long range , to an existing design you already lost . The german design not going to happen . no experience in any longrange submarines , and lacking behind sweden and the netherlands in combat management technology and operational capabilities . The Swedish Dutch design will have both Dutch and swedish techmologies and expertise added plus a long standing relation with the 2 nations .

[@kevinvandal8595]

The Dakar Class for the Israël Navy also check all the boxes for the Dutch. So dont rule out the Germans just yet.

[@christinarodriguez7508]

@@kevinvandal8595 Listen to your self israeli navy ,that is a joke to begin with . None of the boxes tick germany builds brown water submarines , israel doesnt even know what a navy looks like or the experience for operating them in the way the dutch have in the past 120 years , The dutch have their own specialised equipment and maritime construction yards The only navy coming close to what the dutch navy already has or needs are sweden, german subs no , Brown water submarine builders , france converting a nuclear design to conventional and we all have seen how that worked out as they lost their contracts for over spending on budget delayes in development and problems with the power and propulsion. There is a reason why the netherlands provides the officers training course for Conventional submarines . the counter part of the british thresher course . Saab-Damen are the only option .

[@lexburen5932]

You are right. Our ship builder Damen wil cooperate with Saab for the new submarines

[@Prometheus4096]

The Saab sub is also a shortrange sub that the Dutch Navy doesn't even want. It was the French, or nothing. I am sure there's many in the Dutch navy that would have preferred a UK or US version of the Barracuda. But that's not being offered.

[@alainfilho1467]

​@Prometheus409les anglais ne sont que les sous traitants des américains....les Pays-Bas ont choisi le meilleur produit....

[@saloedroeg]

Latest news! The Tomahawk missile is not compatible with the French Submarine, so this deal is of!

[@lordtemplar9274]

wrong, deal is confirmed and signed. Barracuda can fire cruise missiles from torpedo tubes just like UK Astute fire tomahawk from torpedo tubes. But don't let the facts get in the way of your trolling.

[@HENRIWILTBERGER]

stupid and xenophobic remark from a francophobe

[@TONSBERG100]

I think the Netherlands would be better off with Thyssenkrupp submarines.

[@ms-lazuli7435]

Why, at what level would it be better for their navy?

[@TONSBERG100]

@@ms-lazuli7435 The cost, Geramy has a lot of experience with diesel submarines. They are reliable and the crew numbers will be less. This new French submarine has never been built and tested. The Barracuda feels like it might be too much submarine for the Netherlands navy. But that is just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[@RR-us2kp]

Or the saab a26

[@polduran]

@@TONSBERG100 and you sincerely believe that the royal navy did not conduct research on the german solution? send them an email. the sna suffren has passed all the tests and is now operational. I doubt that thyssenkrupp can offer as much capacity as naval group. anyway the royal navy has made its decision. australia also took the same decision, but it was the price that frightened them. wrong because now australia understands what shit it got into since the death of the contract.

[@ms-lazuli7435]

@@TONSBERG100 The cost, yes. The Barracuda is operational in the SSN version, so there may be some hesitation about AIP propulsion. But I would have thought that the Navy would have gone for the French SSK Scorpène rather than the Barracuda. Cheaper, less crew, AIP and already operational in several navies. But I think France is trying to position the Barracuda on the marketplace.

[@WillemHovius-n7j]

Nooit van Frankrijk maar rutte kaag loongerelateerde zijn al uitgenodigd geweest.klm denk na

[@HENRIWILTBERGER]

stupid and xenophobic remark from a francophobe

[@rims_86]

dutch already choose sweedish a26 submarine, so why dont france offer this boat to Indonesia instead scorpene

[@tvanb8729]

We really dont want a French submarine in the royal NL Navy. But..due too politics and French pressure and blackmail it seems unavoidable

[@andycapp4722]

Why don t you want a french submarine?

[@sixpackpilot]

Afraid of a second Breguet Atlantique nightmare? The maritime patrol planes where logistically badly supported and language differences (e.g. bad translations in manuals) caused many issues for maintenance and operating the aircraft. The MLD, and KM as a whole, were used to operating UK/US weapon systems, and this French plane did not fit well at all with what maintainers and operators were used to. However, the industry has changed a lot in the meantime. I think the French and Naval in particular are now a lot more used to catering to a wider, non-French, NATO/US/UK customer base and are very well capable of making and supporting submarines that suit the Kon.Marine needs. Now let's hope Naval Group and its new Dutch partner Royal IHC work together well.

[@lordtemplar9274]

what blackmail?

[@HENRIWILTBERGER]

stupid and xenophobic remark from a francophobe

[@bertnl530]

@@sixpackpilot The Breguet was 40-50 years ago.

[@WikiWijaya-ul3cm]

🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩💪👍

[@WikiWijaya-ul3cm]

🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩🇮🇩💪👍