Fallout Talk - Did Bethesda RUIN The Enclave?

Did Bethesda ruin the Enclave?
The Fallout series has a long history with their darker soldiersstrapped in large, bulky powered armor. They made their first appearance in the second game becoming an important part of the Fallout lore and even being the featured antagonist in two games.
They made an appearance in each in some capacity since the second one, from the said antagonistic role to small collection of individuals, to just a lone, former member.
Let's take a look at the two main games that featured The Enclave.
#FalloutTalk #Fallout #Bethesda

[@mrviking2mcall212]

The most humanising moment for the Enclave in Fallout 3 was when you could crawl into the space beneath their cafeteria which had a grated floor and find dozens of forks, knives, and spoons on the ground. The soldiers in the mess hall had been dropping and losing them down the grates.

[@mortache]

Bethesda is good at environmental storytelling but the dialogue is lacking

[@arnaldodaniel1804]

@darzsh :V

[@signaturerush]

I remember I just brutally murdered all of the enclave in there.

[@arnaldodaniel1804]

@darzsh waaaaaaahhhhhh

[@tenhoandersson]

@@mortache "dialogue is lacking" wha... I get that they maybe arent THE best with dialogue but they're certainly very good Edit: its very good for fallout games but I cant say the same about their other games

[@lostnemesis]

I loved the way they were in fallout New Vegas because it isn't like all of them were evil and at this point it's such an easy way to make an interesting story to have them be at the very least neutral evil in alignment terms.

[@STGOWER]

Exactly! A good comparison are the Imperials in Star Wars. The movies and shows like to portray them as cartoonishly evil, selfish, backstabbers, but in reality if you check out the other forms of media surrounding them you find out most of the Imperials/Stormtroopers are just people. Trying to live their lives and doing what they THOUGHT was the right thing given their upbringing and propaganda, etc... More-so when you see Defectors like in either franchise after they leave for _____ reasons and see how the rest of the world exists and views them. Imperial Defectors/Enclave: "Huh... We did some bad shit, didn't we?"

[@banditkeef3864]

Yeah, it shows how the faction and the faction’s goals are evil, not the people born into it. I mean seeing as how they are a stand in for nazis/fascists it makes sense. Not all actually agree with what was going on but have to act as tho they do out of fear.

[@TheFlamerWolf]

We should thank Obsiden for that

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

The Imperial comparison is pretty solid. I am thinking of Gilad Pellaeon, the man who saved the Galactic Empire. On one hand the New Republic feared him as Thrawn's protégé, on the other they could respect him for being a moral center and actually reforming the Empire for the better. And there is a line in one of the books about he died in service of an empire that never really existed. He believed in the propaganda and managed to actually make some of it a reality, as well as some of admiral Thrawn's reforms. And reluctantly admitting at old age that he had been fighting for the wrong faction all his life, but he did some good while doing it.

[@klaykid117]

I do hope one day we get to see an actual enclave faction that's actually trying to restore America sort of a cross between the NCR and the minutemen it could be an interesting conflict to have them as the power armored faction instead of the brotherhood of steel for the 10th time

[@wyattbottorff2473]

In the defense of Fallout 3, they did humanize the Enclave just the tiniest bit by having the laughably unprepared officer in the halls waiting for you as you left the interrogation room.

[@Pepper1770]

@Tom Tříska the CUTLERY shit the enclaves kitchen Porter must’ve been laughed at still it was a humanising moment wish there were more little details like that maybe even one where there’s an inaccessible toilet and you can hear an enclave soldier banging on the door to get out haha

[@beanface7408]

And they don't always have fingers you can take.

[@achair7265]

And the deserters who dragged they're commander only to end up being exucuted by the out casts. They only wanted water. Though there's another two I know, one dead in the ant tunnels within the fire ant quest. Another on the land crawler wich you can decide to spare or not.

[@imnotaracistokay]

​@@beanface7408 that's prolly bc dogmeat/companions got the final blow on some of them, that's why they didn't dropped any finger bc you're the one that needs to do that final blow on them for it to be drop

[@TehPiemaygor]

I think what made people think the Enclave is pure Evil in Fallout 3 is because the Brotherhood of Steel in 3 are shown as these ultra good guys who wants to help out the DC wasteland, and you the player are basically forced to interact with and be with them in the fights for the Jefferson memorial. Meanwhile, you are forced to always fight Enclaves soldiers no matter what you do, and your interactions with them are shallow at best. All you as a character know is that they're rutheless as they kill the scientist next to your father, and threaten to kill lots more. Plus, 3-dog is always trash talking them, and he's supposed to be the ultimate judge of good and evil in the game. Autumn ultimately does not even get a say in what direction the DC wasteland takes, except to be an antagonistic force to the Lone Wanderer, and President Eden is the only member of the Enclave you can do anything for. I would really, really like to know what direction Colonel Autumn saw the direction of the Enclave going, and see his argument for why he ought to control the water purification facility. But the player never really gets that.

[@ERROR-hf3wx]

I wanted to join them

[@didelphidae5228]

We all did

[@LynnetteJJW]

So the Enclave wanted to take control and turn on the purifier that the BoS wanted to turn on and abandon… Uh. Great logic to start a fucking war. In short the BoS wanted control to restrain it and grow the region to gain more power. Lyons wanted more control, Sarah wanted to help people. They wanted to bottle it for themselves and anyone they saw to need it. Autumn wanted to do the same for the Enclave, then deploy their own GECK to start the reconstruction process. Creating a full government. Eden wanted the Enclave to control to eradicate the mutant threat, which was possible. (Generally anyone infected by FEV, you take damage too as u walked through that FEV Vault.) Then use the power of the enclave to spread through the region with the help of free water access to boost rep. Basically, of you want water, join the enclave.

[@sbh_tx]

“There shouldn’t be Enclave in DC” That surprises me the most. To the remnant of the American Government and elites having a presence in DC makes perfectly logical sense. Why wouldn’t the Survivors of the old world government have a presence in their old capital?

[@twistedintent7963]

Enclave is the 1% of the world who were planning on going to another planet so they themselves funded the vaults as a way to test how humans would do in confined spaces for long periods of time ( rockets ) they were all in California because of the robco, posideon and other major tech companies that helped build and make their weapons secretly and only a VERY small handful of them were ever actually in power in the pre war US INFACT the ones that were, well they were strictly military and with the military being HUGE in the deserts (Area 51 and all the secret stuff) it really makes no sense on why they were in dc but a good lore reason WOULD have been that because their base and president were dead there cause was dead and went to DC in order to try and take back power from the capital itself or gain access too the White House to get info and tech they could then use to take over the country and creat a great society and government like their ancestors intended for another planet. Bethesda has a fun way of making shitty lore in their fallout games and should really consider having the Devs of fallout 1 and 2 make another game like they did with new Vegas

[@zerotwo7319]

First place to be attacked

[@Chosen_Ash]

@@twistedintent7963 the leaders are the one percent the soldiers are jus pure Americans

[@twistedintent7963]

@@Chosen_Ash true but the soldiers are not pre war military, they are a branch of the pre war military funded and specialized for the 1% by the 1%

[@w9shcl0thes]

Defo most of the obsidian and interplay fanboys nitpick everything

[@NerfMaster000]

I’m surprised you didn’t mentioned that one event where a bunch of Enclave soldiers tried to surrender to the Brotherhood but got killed anyway because it was the Outcast instead though I won’t be surprised if it’s because of how rare that event seemed to be.

[@NickNembus]

Think you missed the point of what the brotherhood was trying to do with the Enclave. 1. They formed because the Enclave was experimenting on US citizens with FEV and anything created with FEV or knowledge about it is deemed a risk to the future. 2. There's not many prisons around or supplies to keep people imprisoned. So when faced with these 2 facts they would want them dead anyways because they can produce FEV, they don't want to incarcerate them indefinitely and there's no war crimes for doing it as the world has already ended and they don't have to follow any prewar notions of said crimes. It's a lawless wasteland (Plus the Enclave themselves did war crimes so their hands are not clean)

[@lostbutfreesoul]

@@NickNembus , Probably one thing the rogue and core Brotherhood still agree upon... the Enclave are pure Evil.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Still, that could have been a great quest with Enclave defectors seeking to join the Brotherhood.

[@fightthepowerman]

@@NickNembus Lol you seriously over here trying to justify a massicre? They were soldiers. Confiscate their tech and weaponry. Brotherhood always acting like they have no choice. Thats why everyone hates those guys. That kind of old world attitude should've died with the old world. Would make the story worse tho lol

[@NickNembus]

​@@fightthepowerman Anyways let me spell it out more for you since you seems to not grasp the basic story. 1. Like I said above the BoS mission is to stop all FEV production and eliminate its knowledge for creation. So knowing this how do you propose they make the Enclave soldiers forget about it? Can they be reprogramed like Synths? No Do we have a MIB Neuralyzer? No If we let them go after taking their S***, What's stopping them from rejoining the Enclave to fight again? Nothing So great plan you got there, but seems to be many flaws with it.

[@greenleader3520]

I want a fallout game where you can actually join the enclave (not including 76 because there’s practically nothing with the enclave in that game)

[@mobythelion3882]

yeah, I'm a FO76 fan and I agree that the enclave is just an excuse for you to launch the nukes. would be cool if you could do ACTUAL missions for the enclave instead of being a scapegoat for launching nukes every 3 hours

[@MrPikaGammer]

Saaame here, 3 should have been that Fallout

[@wormwood8352]

i have no fucking clue what is going on with 76. i mean brotherhood shit all the way in west virginia that recently after the bombs fell? if there was ever an excuse to not include the brotherhood and expand upon the enclave massively, 76 was the game to do it, it would make way more sense for what is basically the us government remnants to still be kicking around in that area and to potentially be a powerful force there.

[@greenleader3520]

@@wormwood8352 dude, for real. The fact they hamfisted the BoS into that game made me even more mad than just the natural state of the servers

[@brok56]

they tried to use nostalgia with BOS in 76. I smell desperation from bethesda.

[@peckneck2439]

If BoS could relocate by walking from west coast to freaking West Virginia then it's safe to assume Enclave could be present anywhere in the US. I mean tge lore got so wacky at this point that i wouldn't be surprised if Enclave had presence...On the moon.

[@thecircleoft.e.d2121]

Well, they are technologically superior than the Brotherhood of Steel, and were affiliated with corporations like Poseidon Energy, which were involved in high-tech projects. Maybe there's a secret space program behind the scenes waiting to be taken advantage of. Who knows?

[@manuelmoralez2257]

I thought they were in space with the satellite they launched the mini nukes from space onto liberty prime

[@seawind930]

And they made the BoS the Good Guys in 3. I mean if they wanted to change it up a bit they could have multiple endings with the Enclave instead of just the bad guys. Though that was the intended role.

[@penguinsrockrgr8yt216]

Appalachian brotherhood more like dead after steel reign

[@MrSmileyRay]

Wacky the bos were traitors who broke from the us military that military became the enclave. The bos started as survivors in broken hills and naturally they tried to link up with like minded individuals the same military that the enclave draws from. So canonically speaking both sides can be anywhere there were once former us soldiers

[@potlerpup5869]

Honestly I like that Bethesda has expanded upon the Enclave rather than just letting them rot as a forgotten faction, I love the moral difference between Autumn and the President (fallout 2) + Eden (fallout 3), and how his goal in fallout 3 was to rebuild the Enclave by having the capital wasteland rely on them rather than destroy the capital wasteland as Eden had planned.

[@cornbread2952]

Autumn would have made a great president and the enclave would have been stronger with him leading it rather than eden

[@rickyfrench6844]

Yeah to bad you couldn’t side with them

[@cornbread2952]

@@rickyfrench6844 yeah I know right I hate that they would expect me to join with the piss ants known as the brotherhood of steel that were scared of the ENCLAVE

[@imsc2624]

@@rickyfrench6844 why would the lone wanderer, even with evil karma, side with the faction that killed his father, kidnapped him and almost killed him?

[@lostnemesis]

The way I heard it put that I like the most was the story of fallout 3 was the brotherhood of steel and The enclave fighting over who got to put their name on the purifier and it's really what they want to do because autumn as you said wanted to rebuild it while them being reliant on them so he went and tried to force his way into being the person that got to put a enclave sticker and logo on every box of pure water that was shipped out.

[@OvercastSpy]

I love seeing another level headed fan of the fallout games speaking facts instead of just going. Bethesda is just bad.

[@msbunnyg1]

Whether you like it or not I doubt you would even play fallout without Bethesda.

[@uria3679]

Without Bethesda we would have gotten CoD DOOM and Wolfenstein would have been forgotten

[@danielsurvivor1372]

Betheada did ruin majority of Fallout elements... *Except Enclave* Besides "They shouldn't be in DC" Enclave is literally the same old cliché super evil purist faction. The only thing that makes F2 Enclave better is because it has more memorable characters and because it makes more sense why they don't accept you tribal into their faction, compared to F3 where it makes no sense they won't accept pure breed Vault boy into Enclave

[@ltgibus4012]

@@danielsurvivor1372 the lone wanderer wasn’t born in the vault.

[@justiceforjoggers2897]

Remember, Bethesda only good guys

[@magicman3163]

I mean I still like them hope Colonel Autumn comes back as an anti-hero against the new threat in Fallout 5 if it’s either Vault-Tec or China

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I wonder if Bethesda would be willing to bring back someone like Autumn. They usually dislike forcing decisions -- if a character is able to die, they usually have them not show up. Again, usually.

[@oldman87yearsago.34]

@@GamesTwiceOver hey, I just wanted you to see this comment. When your mentioning dots on the map, the one you say looks like DC to me feels a little low for DC, what it does look like however, is Fort Bragg North Carolina, the most populated US base in the world right now. I think this could be awesome for bringing back the enclave, as it would make sense for them to have a presence there.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

@@oldman87yearsago.34 Very possible.

[@ImmaLittlePip]

@@GamesTwiceOver there's also the fact that many companies irl are afraid to piss off the Chinese market so making china the bad guy would probably be something Bethesda and others are afraid to do these days

[@angeloluna529]

@@ImmaLittlePip i dont think fallout is that big in china since china love big massive online games, why do you think blizzard is catering to them?

[@oddtomato1049]

"-or is this argument entirely salt?" What do you mean by "salt"? Since nowadays salt has weirdly alot more meanings than just being salt.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I was going to actually define it originally in my video, but felt it strayed too far from the context entirely. "Salt argument" is something I kinda just made up in my head. An argument made up of salt, or anger, to the point you start start believing in things that aren't true. It's somewhat connected to the phrase "Take it with a grain of salt," which is often used to describe something that's unverified and therefore may not be true. To be honest, I legit did not expect anyone to point that out considering it's a very short part of the video. gg man

[@iHawke]

@@GamesTwiceOver you mean gaslighting?

[@GamesTwiceOver]

i thought gaslighting was a form of manipulation - trying to make others question their own memories with a lie that you repeat enough.

[@lostnemesis]

@@GamesTwiceOver this is kind of out of place but I do agree the power armor looks like trash gameplay wise I don't like fallout 4 but I do like the look and fallout 4 and also I don't like the t60 armor I just don't like the idea behind it. And I don't like the fact you can do a superhero landing gravity doesn't work like that but I do like the fact that it actually makes sense now that I can punch a super mutant to death in power armor.

[@ohlawd6763]

@@lostnemesis I actually like the Enclaves Power Armor design in Fo3, with the normal suit, the Tesla suit, and the Hellfire suit. Although I will say, the thing that bugs me the most about the normal and tesla versions is just how far apart the shoulder armor seems to be, so you have this weird gap in between the shoulders and the head. Also, I think the Enclaves PA in FO2 is THE golden standard when it comes to its design. The in game models as well as the cinematic models are amazing looking, really gives off this "These guys ARE the remnants of the old United States." Although unfortunately I really dislike what it looks like in Fallout New Vegas. Its just not as bulky as it should be and its almost slender in a way. I think I remember reading one of the designers or devs mention that the reason it looks like that in NV is just because they couldn't make it work with the models in the game so they went with the more slender look.

[@lightningii7305]

I like the designs they had for X0-2 or "Black Devil" armor and Hellfire power armor and liked their access to crazy military stuff but thats about it for my praise of bethesda :(

[@1293ST]

the X02 is actually kinda shitty when you think about it. it's kind of a "muh new alloys" deus ex machina and again this pre war jerk off of "the wastland is grim and grimey, and you can't make new things." I would like for the X02 to be named the Advanced Power Armor Mark 3, and the hellfire something like Mark 3.5 or smth, and to have a more enclave like design, with that roundness and the characteristic hump. It doesn't even make sense that it's named the X02 if the Enclave produced the armor after the war because the X01 was the precursor and a prototype to the Advanced Power Armor Mark 1.

[@monkeman5895]

@@1293ST It’s not actually named XO-2, it came from a mod. Oh and I don’t know why people even call the Hellfire PA, XO-3 or something like that. It’s just a modification of regular APA meant to be used by soldiers using flamethrower weapons

[@MrPikaGammer]

The Black Devil to me is just plain ugly, looks more like a dog than Power armor

[@Dino10Boy]

The newer models of it used in FO4 and FO76 look better while the FO3 one is shit

[@tylerellis9097]

Tbh I think that Armor looks completely ass and it’s not even better than T-51B

[@TheOnly-zo4xi]

The enclave has so much potential , just think of how in fallout 5 they could bring the enclave back , from some outposts around north america, and give the enclave a horror aesthetic and Make the campaign such that we can lose to the enclave too

[@the-rat_king3120]

And give the ability to join them.

[@unseenreaper2251]

@@the-rat_king3120 yeah I would like the ability to join them

[@diamondmetal3062]

Tbh I’m kinda tired with the Enclave as the main antagonist. They’ve been the antagonist for 2 games and in both they wanted to commit genocide on the wasteland by way of a mutated FEV strain. What would they bring to the table this time?

[@Matt-td8xw]

@@the-rat_king3120 and why the hell would they let an "mutie" join them?

[@wesleymcbride8084]

@@Matt-td8xw well the Enclave on the oil rig where technically rogue after they lost contact with there counterparts across the U.S they did nothing they just stayed there so you can have another group of the enclave with different views maybe make them actually try to rebuild America the right way but you can have it where everyone doesn’t trust them be cause of past decisions from over enclave groups hindering them in there objective

[@El_Descarriado]

It speaks to how fraudulent Bethesda's writers are, when they have the IDEAL player character (F4) to finally make the Enclave joinable and it not conflict with their ideology and they don't even have them in the game.

[@piotrwisniewski70]

If you meant that our character could join the enclave because it was made from old american government, then well, you're wrong Main reason why our character wouldn't be able to join the enclave is that creators of brotherhood of steel were part of american arny, but no one ever gave them invitation to enclave If enclave didn't gave the Sole Survivor invitation before war, then they won't after 200 years

[@turkeygod6665]

@@piotrwisniewski70 But he'd still be a 'pure human' born before the rads 'fucked' everyone else up. Im sure the enclave would be desperate for new blood, doubt they have great numbers.

[@magicman3163]

@@piotrwisniewski70 The brotherhood succeeded from the government before the bombs

[@JamesJJSMilton]

@@piotrwisniewski70 The Brotherhood isn't a successor to the American Army, or even a branch of the Government. Roger Maxson and his were just ex-soldiers who seceeded at the very onset of the war. If the Enclave learned about the Sole Survivor, and learned that they were not just a pre-war human, but also a pre-war soldier (Nate is pretty much canon) they would be happy to have him, especially if it's later in the game where he's an influential wastelander. It really was a wasted opportunity to have the only Enclave survivor be in a DLC, and apart of the Crazy Radiation Cult. also cucking the Enclave of X-01 just because they weren't happy people didn't like their shitty Fallout 3 armor is the most petty thing todd howard has ever done.

[@Slender_Man_186]

@@piotrwisniewski70 the BoS weren’t just military, they were deserters that killed scientists and any who didn’t join them, then they fled the Mariposa outpost. The brotherhood, in the American government’s eyes, are traitors who abandoned their posts.

[@joelmaynard5590]

I genuinely wonder why people complain that the Enclave are evil in 3 when their plan in 2 was complete global genocide of people who did not share their exact genetic makeup. Complain that the Enclave are boring as much as you want but complaining that they're still the villains is silly to me.

[@Mjms000quon]

What kind of confuses me is the argument to bring the Enclave back but not have Super Mutants and the BoS in the next game. When the Enclave were huge in the first few games up until 4 where they were barely mentioned.

[@grigoriyremez8851]

@@Mjms000quon With BoS and super mutants, the West coast was their place of origin, so having BoS spread throughout the entire U.S. for no reason, or the fact that literally every state had access to FEV seemed cheap. The Enclave, on the other hand, don’t need to be tied to the West coast and can have bases or outpost just about anywhere, being the remnants of the old government.

[@joelmaynard5590]

@@grigoriyremez8851 just let the enclave die. Bring in a new enemy. Caesar was a specifically post war antagonist and he didn't need the rhetoric or power armor of the enclave to be interesting. The super mutant army was able to bow out of history with relative grace, they no longer drive the plot because they no longer need to, they are a solved problem. The enclave is a similarly solved problem, how many times do bright eyed teenaged protagonists have to completely destroy the enclave leadership and army before the writers are willing to put them to rest.

[@grigoriyremez8851]

@@joelmaynard5590 The Enclave don’t have to be used the same way they were in 2 and 3. In Fallout 3 and 76 we’ve already seen the fact that internally, the Enclave are not uniform, and different factions have different plans for the Wasteland (kill everyone vs establish control over them, for example). Just have an Enclave stronghold that had its original leadership removed by the Reformists, and now the Enclave is just another potential faction to join instead of the looming threat to all life from the previous games.

[@thecircleoft.e.d2121]

IKR? Eden literally says that they're using the exact same plan as in Fallout 2. Bloody communist sympathising Gatekeepers!

[@1950sFordGuy]

We could have a softer enclave, one that aims to reclaim america and work with the wasteland but has internal struggles between the old and new ideologies similar to lions brotherhood and the outcasts but internal and much more fleshed out, give the player the option to join them or oppose them and allowing defeat to be an ending. There’s a really good mod for hearts of iron 4 that plays with this and they do keep it cannon, there were some people in the enclave that didn’t want to commit genocide and who wanted to help rebuild America with the help of the wastelanders. I think with good writing we could see the return of a different and new feeling enclave faction

[@greenbrickbox3392]

I think a breakaway enclave faction that acts similar to the midwest BOS in Tactics but is still brutal/authoritarian as a successor to the pre-war US could be interesting if done well. I'm not really interested in more FO2 genocidal xenophobic Enclave stories, I feel like that story has been played out enough.

[@randeli7785]

I don't think we really need a softer version of the Enclave when the NCR already exist as a government based on pre-war America.

[@1950sFordGuy]

@@randeli7785 you’re right but just as something different and new like what greenbrickbox said would be fun, maybe not even as a primary faction but just as an option to play with like the remnants of new Vegas.

[@Thagomizer]

The "America" that the Enclave wants to reclaim was a poisoned well long before the great war. There's nothing there worth restoring.

[@sbh_tx]

But Enclave very bad and you should never ever play as a the bad guy fascists in a role playing game bc they do not align with my personal political beliefs >:(( (it should be painfully clear by now that this is partially satire)

[@hunter5559]

If the Enclave were to again appear in another Fallout title I'd like to see them less as an over-arching evil group looming just over the horizon and more like a confused band of militant settlers, the descendants of the outcasts who fled from the California region but didn't go with Autumn to DC. A whole generation of young adults, the children and grand children of the outcasts raised on the belief of "America", they don't really know what that means they just know that their mom or their grandad was once a soldier and they want to take up their old mantle. Say for example Fallout 5 is set in Texas, the player could find this group of Enclave descendants and could choose to help or hinder them, if the player chooses to help them then they'd say help take Fort Knox and help the Descendants re-establish themselves, the fort has no real meaning beyond being a fort but to the Descendants it's a symbol of this "America" their parents talked about and that's good enough for them.

[@diamondmetal3062]

That’s a really cool idea. The Enclave as a faction with any sort of ideals are dead in the ground, but that wouldn’t mean they haven’t left behind descendants who probably know nothing of their original goals, maybe in possession of an outpost or technology. Maybe you could either give them a fresh start and have them become like Shady Sands or convince them to continue the warmongering of their predecessors.

[@GateCaptain]

They could also do something regarding spiritual successors or "remnant" factions, they did touch on it in Fallout NV with the remnants there but you do have a faction with access to advanced technology, military training, and plenty of pre war knowledge. So there could be former members who pull a Caesar or an Ashur who take over tribes or raider groups and insert themselves as their leader or god, splinter groups who insert themselves as the "protectors" of a settlement who either does not want them there or only accept them out of necessity, maybe more diehard remnants who take over vaults in order to rebuild their numbers and eventually create another Vault City, or like in FO3 and 76 you have groups who occupy or still hold out in pre-war facilities. You could play a bit more with their morality and rationale as these aren't the cookie cutter members of an army with a single goal anymore, these are people who are driven by survival or ideology and have to adapt to their situation.

[@christophervoiers8517]

I mean maybe these Enclave remnants could have came from DC and it would really be cool because we can see XO2 power armor in a Fallout game again I didn't really like The Enclave xo1 power armor that we see in Fallout 4 I think that broke the lore there was only Mark 2 combat power armor will that's what Sergeant Dornan calls it

[@YOSOYALFA]

Congratulations mate! Yesterday I discovered your channel, I watched every video and then this popped up at night! It's a miracle 🙏

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I'm targeting one to two videos a week, though I'm not sure if I can really keep the schedule. Need ideas to keep it coming. Luckily, I'm inching closer to a thousand so I can start infecting people's streams and asking questions to help get ideas. Just gotta get that 1000.

[@TNOFanZacharie]

Okay, just gonna say it before watching, I wanna congratulate you, mate! Your channel's getting popular! (And yeah, Fallout 3 power armour is ugly). I really like Fallout 2 for it's characters, they just feel... human. That's honestly my only problem with F3's enclave, I think. There just aren't many Enclave soldiers/scientists/members to talk to. You can't tell if they're good people or bad people. I mean, you can instantly tell that Autumn isn't an evil person, but that's it. The only other Enclave member you can talk to (I think he's the only one) is this officer who will talk to you when you "escape" from this cell, and he doesn't seem like a bad person either, but HE'S ONE OF THE ONLY THREE ENCLAVE MEMEBERS YOU CAN TALK TO, AND ONE OF THESE THREE MEMBERS ISN'T EVEN A PERSON.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

My man Gary, first to comment on a new video. Thought you'd be in bed, my guy. Then again, you said you were in the UK, right? Was probably 8, for you, when this video went up. I think there's also a Wastelander in the Broken Steel DLC that was starving, picked up, fed and forced to work. An engineer or something. He doesn't really have too much to say. And yeah, my channel's been going well lately. I know you had a personal hand in that just by regularly watching my stuff. Thanks dude.

[@TNOFanZacharie]

@@GamesTwiceOver Oh, you're right, forgot about this guy! And man, no need to thank me, we should thank you, we wouldn't be watching if your content wasn't great, man :D

[@MrPikaGammer]

I think they easily could have fixed it by replacing the Outcasts with Enclave outposts and patrols. While the Lone Wanderer is technically not a Vault Dweller he grew up in one so you'd think the Enclave would atleast assume he's pure like the residents of Vault 13 or Arroyo

[@aaronlaughter6471]

I actually quite like them in F3, and I will die on the hill that Colonel Autumn gets way to much flak.

[@banditkeef3864]

So go and give him the code then. I’m sure you’ll be the best of friends after that’s

[@aaronlaughter6471]

@@banditkeef3864 sorry mass genocide isn't my thing, might be yours though.

[@banditkeef3864]

@@aaronlaughter6471 you’re the one defending colonel autumn. If you feel as if he’s not that bad a guy just give him the code after they kidnap you and see what happens. “I’ll die on the hill...” will become more than a saying.

[@ghostcure3403]

Agreed. I enjoyed Fallout 2 but when I got to the Oil Rig... That just made me dislike the Enclave and the ending a lot

[@Nyghtking]

colonel autumn is interesting when you break it down, he doesn't want to use the FEV on the people of the wasteland which would be the easy option, so he probably doesn't want to mobilize his forces to kill them either, but at the same time he won't hesitate to kill you once you give him the code to the purifier since you're a loose end and have no more value to him.

[@ImmaLittlePip]

I do like the idea of all those dots being small enclave bases just sitting there bidding their time growing their numbers and keeping their ideology strong which would raise the question how do you get rid of an ideology if you can get rid of it's people and the people who teach it ect

[@averyplaysguitar]

Ideologies will always exist, but things like education, historical factors, social and economic factors, and current political environment can have a large influence on the importance/prevalence of different ideologies. For example, although monarchism isn't a prevalent ideology in America, it is in Britain. But that doesn't mean that there are no monarchists in America today - it is just not a mainstream ideology in the country, likely due to the nation's history of being founded on rejection of monarchy (a historical factor).

[@vengeance160]

It's actually quite logical to have Enclave on the east coast, what's more, in the capital area. I think the problem is, that Enclave soldiers in the game feel like just regular goons. The number of soldiers, how they are weak relatively speaking, useless power armor which is, again, presented in such amounts, it's basically a trash. All of it breaks immersion and believability. What should have been, Enclave soldiers are very tough to kill and fight against, decrease amount of soldiers we met, and that's it.

[@Thagomizer]

In Fallout 2, encountering an Enclave patrol is certain doom if you don't have endgame level equipment, which is how it ought to be.

[@Insurgency_Raider]

The enclave was always my favorite faction I hope they return in a more important persistent in a future fallout game

[@captsige1140]

Fallout 3 enclave should see active vault opening than in progressing to find lone wanderer because it alert the enclave that vault were open or the eyebot of enclave should have camera to see active activity so they could see lone wanderer because the vault suit and spy on him

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Honestly, they should just have shown up and said "Hey, we're the government and you are needed in the effort to rebuilt America. Volunteering is mandantory."

[@randeli7785]

If you sabotage Vault 101, you can randomly find Amada being integrated by an Enclave officer who demands the vaults location.

[@ArctikToast]

Wait isn't your avatar matto?

[@lutin_mi06]

@@randeli7785 how can i do that?

[@randeli7785]

@@lutin_mi06 Help Butch out when you return to the vault.

[@lordhellstrande7188]

Even though I'm not a huge Fallout fan, it's very refreshing to watch someone discuss game stuff in a civil and factual manner. Keep doing what you do

[@dickkickem6472]

I wish fo3 took more time to go into the enclaves background, like how they got to the east, how they rebuilt after the oil rig, y'know things like that.

[@commanderwolf395]

I don't remember where I saw this but I think in the lore it said that when the Rig blew up and basically all of the inhabitants in Navarro Received a Transmission from a person calling himself Eden and that he was the next president of the United States of America, and to join him to rebuild the Enclave and try and restore America so with what little choice they had they made a great exodus to the east coast to Raven rock only leaving a small handful of Military Personal that didn't want to go

[@randeli7785]

I think in the Ant village in 3 had a dead former enclave soldier that got into detail about it but it's been years since I seen that.

[@commanderwolf395]

@@randeli7785 Well bottom line is that the Enclave aren't truly dead there somewhere not as big as we used too be but there somewhere

[@dickkickem6472]

@@randeli7785 damn always heard about ant village but never been there

[@Thagomizer]

@@commanderwolf395 What troubles me is the fact that the Enclave vertibirds are stated to have a limited range. The Navarro base was specifically built as a refueling station. They needed to stop there on their way back from Arroyo before arriving to the oil rig. So if this range is that limited, it's hard to imagine how they'd manage the journey to the east coast incognito, unless a squadron of vertibirds was also carrying several tons of fuel. Perhaps they had other refueling stations east of the FO2 map, but aside from the bunker in New Vegas, we really don't know.

[@SHADOWCHANCELLOR]

Did Bethesda RUIN My Marriage?

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Anybody who plays 2 ruins their own marriage.

[@toxenzz]

Hey man, haven’t watched the video yet. I was going to comment previously, but felt it was a little obnoxious. But upon seeing this video I can’t hold back. Thank you for speaking on the Enclave! They are my favorite faction within Fallout, and I still feel as if there could be something more for them in the future. Also! You are an incredible lore master, with an amazing level of production and quality. You’re in my top 5 KZbinrs, can’t wait to see the next one. Cheers brother

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Means a lot. I'm not absolutely fantastic at the lore, I still find things in research that I didn't know about (a lot of depth with this series.) And production quality, I dunno, I still don't feel comfortable with my audio set up, but hopefully I can improve.

[@toxenzz]

@@GamesTwiceOverIt’s a very healthy mindset to never settle! I tried the KZbin game once a long time ago, I get the grind. But I promise you, if you’re passionate about this, you could go far on this site! I for one will be behind every upload haha. Truly, I appreciate the level of detail you put into the videos. I’ve watched nearly all of them today. My favorite aspect of your channel is how I believe you’re one of the first to refer to the Fallout series as having 3 separate, yet distinguished eras. Classic, Post-Classic, and Modern. I’ve never thought of the series exactly categorized in that way, and I too started playing with Fo3 back in the day. I actually just went back and nabbed all the achievements to 100% it a couple weeks back. Followed with Fo4. Irrelevant, maybe, but I’m just trying to say that as a Post-Classic veteran, I highly appreciate the level of detail and insight you offer. Maybe one day I’ll gather the mental strength I need to walk out of Vault 13’s caves 😂 Keep being you bro 🤙🏻

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Thank you, my guy. I find most people rather accepting of my channel, while my goal was to always be unbiased in my videos, I know my content is often a little hard on Bethesda but most seem to take it rather well. So well my channel has been doing very well lately (knock on wood) and I do hope it continues. Inching to that thousand subs, then can start talking more directly with the community. On the subject of the categories, I'm wondering what to call whatever 5 is and inevitably changes the entire style again. I guess I could be unoriginal and just go with Post-Modern, how it worked for art. When you do grab Fallout 1, be sure to give my guide a look. If for no other reason than to see if it's an effective educational tool. I'm sure it can be improved, I just don't know where given I'm already familiar with Fallout 1. Best criticism to get is probably from someone who is new.

[@camthaman2383]

Just found your channel recently and went through all the fallout videos 😅 so glad to see you're making more fallout videos can't wait to see what you make next!

[@saffronic3026]

I'm betting you already had this planned before I asked on the BOS video, but that was awesome timing

[@seanthat0126]

Just discovered this channel, watched every video… Amazing content I’m looking forward to whatever you produce in the future!

[@chadb6229]

I really hope you reach 1k subs by the end of today I just found your channel watched you videos and though sometimes I disagree with you I still love you content and hope you go far!

[@GamesTwiceOver]

My channel tries to foster healthy debate and disagreements. It's... really hard to encourage in a comment section, but I personally have no ill will to anyone who disagrees with me. I know my opinions and tastes aren't always "gold," if that makes sense. And they could change later. And fingers crossed for that 1000.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I did reach that 1k by the end of the day, by the way. Two hours or so before 12 am.

[@chadb6229]

I know and I'm so hapoy for you! Honetsly I'm totally gonna write a sub goal comment on your next video

[@ShmeengusDingus]

So does that mean Autumn might have not wanted to kill the wastelanders? Maybe he wanted a F4 BoS approach and just policing the area and establishing something like the NCR?

[@Xo-3130]

Probably as for the term for the F4 BoS it's clear they likely rule DC in a way similar to medieval fiefdoms or feudalism.

[@scubies]

You just popped up in my recommended. You're seriously underrated. Awesome videos man!

[@TerraCactus00]

So I dont think Bethesda "ruined" the enclave so to speak as there is really only two times the enclave shows up, in its day bue in fallout 2 and fallout 3 but for me playing through 2 first gives me the sense that the enclave from fallout 3 are like the last line of linage of the group in totel making their crazy and rootless actions seem not that bad. IN F4 while at this point they cant be brought back I love the spin the institute puts on the idea of the enclave

[@TheWanderer2287]

Good video! I’m a big fan of the enclave, and I’ve made countless videos on them and even written my own story about an enclave defect, so hearing this video was very good to get philosophical about the enclave in the Bethesda games etc. Great job!

[@lichtumbra349]

Your channel is growing fast I was your 300 sub yesterday

[@lostnemesis]

He was at 300 yesterday? at like 6:00 he was at 550 the algorithm really love him lol

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Creeping towards that 1,000 subscribers, boys.

[@lostnemesis]

@@GamesTwiceOver a bit of dedication and a lot of time I hope this wave continues for you man!!

[@lichtumbra349]

@@GamesTwiceOver youtube speedrun

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I did it, fellas. Still no community tab, though. Apparently it can take a couple of days to appear. You'd... think this stuff would be instantaneous because it's Google. Then again, it's Google so maybe it's not so surprising.

[@chinaman1]

I remember seeing the enclave the first time i played FO2. and I was super worried and scared about encountering them. but I was also in awe of their power armor, and I set out to find their armor. after many weeks or was it months, I finally got them and I was super happy.

[@akumu9188]

The enclave actually where planning on being added in van buren with a random event referencing them being located at the macarthur base. There's also the Chicago enclave referenced in fallout NV by ede's logs, though I think they where only added into cannon by fnv making them a post fallout 3 inclusion.

[@subjectdelta17]

When your videos started popping up in my recommendations, I honestly thought you'd just be another "everything about Bethesda bad, everything about obsidian/black isle Good" fan that the fanbase is filled with. But you actually seem to give an objective viewpoint on pretty much everything, and you don't spout common misconceptions that a lot of fans do, for example the "super mutants and BoS being on the east coast breaks lore!!!" Argument a lot of fans make, even to this day

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I won't lie, my titles are a little intentionally clickbaity. But yes, I try to be objective. Part of my channel's purpose is deconstruct misconception about lore breaks. Enclave ONLY being in the West Coast? Absolute fabrication. No lore states this.

[@klaykid117]

Interesting I actually love the fallout 3 enclave power armor the most it's clearly designed to intimidate clueless wastelanders as evidenced bias charisma bonus for the helmet and I like the more streamlined design I always thought the hunchback was really weird

[@dylanwilson5690]

In “Broken Steel” the Enclave did have a huge fortress capable of flight, perhaps they came to DC from the west by those means.

[@benson5311]

Im loving your video, i’ve watched all of them this morning and now you dropped a new one lol. Keep it up 💙

[@GamesTwiceOver]

I'll try my best, my guy. Aiming for at least one a week.

[@benson5311]

@@GamesTwiceOver yeah I prefer way more the KZbinr that make you wait and desire for a good video once in a while over the spam youtuber that do a video per day. In particular with fallout that is one of my favorite series.

[@jeremiahwright4450]

Should've had Enclave playable factions. Who knows, maybe all those testing with FEV they find a virus that can just purify a man of all his radiation afflicted genes for just slowly target and clean ones that present mutations and such. It could even be a cure for ghoulification, maybe supermutanifcation too.

[@johnkaiser5388]

Can’t forget about Grand Zealot Richter.

[@Hardrada_129]

I get the complaint about re-using factions. But I don't understand people who say it doesn't make sense for the Enclave to be in D.C. In theory the Enclave could begin their rebuilding of America anywhere, but it would make sense for them to centralize themselves in the former capital of the former nation they want to restart. Given their vast pre-war resources, and foresight to know that a nuclear war was coming, it would also make sense for the Enclave to have bases and personnel all across the continent, to assist in their rebuilding effort.

[@McluvinIVreal]

1:45 I seriously had a moment where I said wait a minute! Nate from Fall Out 3 in Megaton believer and follower of the enclave was this his mother? Some serious facial likeness and skin tone

[@President_Dave]

Found another hidden gem Fallout lore/discussion channel. Thank you KZbin algorithm, and keep it up Games Twice-Over 😊

[@inkoursor2942]

I quite like the F3 Advanced Power armor. Could definitely use some slight tweaking, but going up against F2's advanced armor it's pretty hard to beat it in terms of aesthetics.

[@juleklO]

Love the videos man, I'll be watching your career with great intrest! Gl out there!

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Thanks, Palpatine.

[@cub_gaming4178]

Honestly I think a confrontation between a new enclave that is what it is ment to be a force for humanity coming face to face with the remnants they are both still strict and powerful but one is the old style and the other a reformed version I think that would be cool

[@genericweeb3939]

Liked the video but you didn't talked about the moment when you go down the floor in one of the enclave bases (I dont remember wich one) and see a lot of knifes dropped through the floor A meaningless but humanizing moment imo

[@juliendacoolien3454]

I just got up so I don't get it

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Aw man, I actually intended to talk about that, because that was one of the things that prompted the entire research.

[@justiceforjoggers2897]

@@juliendacoolien3454 Their floors in the mess hall were made of essentially bars (like a bird cage), so if someone dropped something it'd fall under the "floor"

[@MatthewYoink]

Aye, you forgot the audio logs of Ed-E in New Vegas where they were at Adams Air Force base before sending Ed-E to Chicago on the way to Navarro…

[@grimgrauman7650]

I think it would be cool if the remains of the enklave and the institut somehow come together and be an faction you can join in one of the next games. I mean i think they would come along with each other. Also i hope if the Enklave comes back it is not so evil and you get some reasons to help them

[@romanhernandez5257]

Love your videos. It’s awesome to see your Channel getting bigger 👍🏼

[@patrickstar4132]

I feel like this channel finna blow up pretty soon

[@cadencero5313]

If you started on Fallout 3 then the Enclave was dark mysterious and intriguing. But the Enclave is interesting, because they are like a shadow government.

[@amduil8168]

The argument people make about how the Enclave couldnt be in DC always really seemed weird to me. Not just because they likely werent all in the Oil Rig but more because, why wouldnt they take DC as soon as possible? They likely sent teams out there as soon as they got access to long range flight because it would be a crown jewel to legitimize their bid for power as the new government of America. They also likely knew ahead of time about Raven Rock and thought if that place could be secured that would be the perfect foothold in DC.

[@Bigsaltygamer]

I feel like the enclave should have enclave bases all over America, one in each state for state officials of that area to go to. I also feel that why would there not be a base in the literally capital.

[@benson5311]

However the enclave in fall-out 3 its like the supermutant, its there without a true reason, its there to sing a bond between the new game and the old one, but its very plane and with no personality; they are just bad guys to shot at. And imo the fact that the president its a robot makes no sense for the spirit of the enclave.

[@tech6985]

funny thing is, in the making of fallout 3. Todd said they went to the east coast to get creative freedom

[@benson5311]

@@tech6985 lol, I mean it’s not a bad idea, I hate when brands despite having a great universe remains on the same topics for years (for exemple Star Wars) but in this case I feel that they want to far and almost renegate the work of the original creator.

[@tech6985]

@@benson5311 thats the problem they limit themself to already existing faction and creatures. Also scorpians? Are they even from around there.

[@benson5311]

@@tech6985 lol never thought about scorpions in DC, the could esily have done gigant spiders for exemple. For now sems that for them fallout is only power armors and supermutants because they are the most marketable items but for this reason the have bought the lore many times, for exemple the t 60 that it’s there only to sell funko pop.

[@Umbra_Ursus]

Eden, to Bethesda's credit, is actually great. He truly does care for (An obviously idealized) America, is right (For the wrong reasons) about the BOS, and is nothing but polite and kind to you. Unlike Autumn, he's not a cardboard cutout. Unlike Father, he's simply extreme rather than horribly written. And, best of all, he's actually well written for something beyond his one-note role, unlike a *lot* of Bethesda's post-Oblivion work. Also, as a note: If I remember right, only Autumn knows he's an AI. The rest is as in the dark on that as we were.

[@Geenoi]

If I recall.. There is an existing mention of the enclave having an existing presence in Chicago in falllout 3/nv I can't remember which game or the location I found the information in..

[@stoleyourroll5325]

It's NV

[@sillylilstella]

dude, you make some of the best fallout video essay content on the platform! i hope you blow up soon! :)

[@supremeleaderchase7339]

A question regarding Colonel Autumn: Why does the arch-Yankee have a Southern accent?

[@GamesTwiceOver]

That's not that unusual. he was born and raised on the Oil Rig, which likely would have a number of accents. Guess it would depend on who he spent most his time with.

[@supremeleaderchase7339]

@Crow Its a Tidewater accent, yes, but I tend to classify it as Southern. Obviously it is distinct from, say, my Mississippian accent, for example. An Appalachian accent also counts as Southern.

[@supremeleaderchase7339]

@Crow I did not mean to say that the Appalachian accent is the same as the Deep South accent. There is not one "Southern Accent", there are many. Appalachian, Tidewater, Ozark, Midsouth, Texas, Louisiana, etc are all Southern accents.

[@questionableconsequences1292]

(you may have pointed this out already) In fallout new vegas arcade gannon says that some of them went east at the start of his quest

[@bdawgrise6961]

I really hope that in the next Dalit we can either join or help rebuild the enclave, I don’t care if it’s east coast, west coast, and think it would be awesome if it were Midwestern.

[@playerarmy6890]

It should have been possible to join the enclave in fallout 4 since the sole survivor has pre war DNA and he served in the military

[@scalycoronet5198]

They’re on the East Coast because Autumn’s father, who was president at the time, heard a radio broadcast from someone in the East that claimed to be the president of the Enclave. Autumn’s father gathered up all the refugees and headed East, only to find Eden, the pre-war super computer. He kept it secret until he stepped down from his position as second in command, allowing his som to take his place and safeguard the info about Eden. Then we can assume that there would be Enclave in D.C. They’re remnants of the Pre-War government, so it makes sense they’d have at least some foothold there.

[@thewretchedpleb7484]

Regarding the humanization of the enclave, it kind of makes sense to me for them to be a sort of boogeyman, at least in Fallout 3 for most of the game. Having more scenes to further illustrate their power struggles and internal dynamics overall would have been good to let the player learn more. Or even just having a brotherhood terminal with an archive of all enclave related knowledge, bringing the player up to speed on the brotherhood's history with them and giving some new pieces of info to bridge the gap between FO1&2 to FO3. As they were in 3, they were handled more like a cartoon villain which in my view does them a slight disservice. I think of the Enclave as a sort of misguided mirror to the Brotherhood, set on restoration but stuck in the past like the BOS, but in different ways.

[@thewretchedpleb7484]

Think there were sparse records in game, just not much beyond a barebones synopsis of the group.

[@SneakybeakyScrub]

i'd have to agree on the Fo3 enclave armor because not only does it look stupid despite being supposed to be an "upgrade" its roundedness and overall cover is way worse, i dont know why any design after advanced/X01 would remove the "hood" considering you'd want impacts to not hit the head directly regardless of if it would penetrate or not, since it would make your brain rattle around, any deformation would press against the skull, and the shape is much more difficult to fit for deflection and thickness when you have to consider all the attachments it needs and the user's neck

[@matthewostry9339]

Loving these videos man, I don’t think enough people address just how good the original fallouts are. The new ones get waaaay too much praise.

[@justiceforjoggers2897]

Personally I loved the first two, but my favorite is Tactics

[@thepurpleshade486]

the opposite is acting true

[@TheSkubna]

Those red dots, they look like locations of large-scale military bases

[@robert357900]

About Enclave armour. I think they take inspiration from Fallout Tactics armor.

[@twistedintent7963]

It would be cool to see a game where they ruled a state with an iron fist and you had to liberate it or work with it to try and cleanse the wasteland. Therefore solidifying them being back as a major faction in the fallout world. I mean the brotherhood is a evil faction depending on how you look at them and so is the NCR but they are all major factions and I would love to see a game in the far future that has 4 huge factions fight for a state in the middle of the east and west coast and the north and south of both also. One can only dream!!!!!

[@LateNightHam]

In relations to the red dots on the map. In movies if there's something in the shot (let's say a copy of halo) that copy of halo now represents something be it the owner likes halo as a game, it's to emphasize religious over tones, or they simply didn't realize it was on set. So unless the artist says otherwise everything you see is important and true.

[@NCR_trooper-69]

There should have been a choice to Join the enclave, We saw what happend without elder Lyon, the enclave Goal is to Rebuild D.C not Steal Tech

[@TheCHEF1911]

It wouldn't make sense for a group like The Enclave - a cabal that had members in every big company and level of government - to only exist in the west coast. I'd say that they are portrayed well in 76, even though there aren't any human NPCS around representing them. Also, there's a engineer in the mobile base crawler that you can allow to escape in Broken Steel. I'd count him as a 'humanized' character. There's also Richter in Far Harbor who talks about his past before he found religion.

[@wizard0313]

One thing I do not like (and both developer parities are guilty of this) is the sense of faction scale. By this I mean the number of Enclave members including military personnel, engineers, farmers (or the closest equivalent), and whatever other civilians live in the Enclave. The entire faction that you see is 99% military, but if that's the case, where do they get their supplies? How do they get them? What are their logistics like? Also, if their entire population on the oil rig was only 1,000- then how could they keep their faction alive without inbreeding? You'll need a lot more than 1,000 people to avoid your faction dying out because there wasn't enough of them. There has to be way more than the ones you see in Fallout 2 and 3. The only problem is that they won't be shown outside of their military. You won't see their civilians living their lives wherever, you won't see them manufacturing their goods to keep themselves going, only the hoards of Enclave soldiers you mow down with little effort by the hundreds.

[@navegandoporlahistoria]

The sad thing is that the fans with mods did much more for the Enclave than Bethesda

[@nickelakon5369]

In New Vegas when escaping Navarro Arcade describes that Orion said, "Kiss America Goodbye, boys" as they flew away from the rig. Kind of seems to imply the major strength of the Enclave was there.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

Of course. That's why they didn't show up again for another thirty years.

[@nickelakon5369]

@@GamesTwiceOver i mean, Orion seems to think that means the Enclave is gone. I guess you could chalk if up to him just being a soldier and not knowing the extent of their strength but it kind of seems like blowing up Arroyo was kind of meant to be the end of the Enclave.

[@bobthemexican8192]

The Enclave can be in Capital Wasteland from the lore perspective, but shouldn't from the narrative. They were main antagonists in 2nd game, and were presumed destroyed, or at very least severely crippled. And here they are again, almost as if nothing happened to them.

[@Normalguy1690]

The Enclave lives on in the BOS you see some have surrendered and are doing push ups in enclave armour while BOS members stand over them. Missed opportunity in 4 to not have some say they were ex enclave.

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Honestly, there really should be more that you could do with the Enclave in Fallout 3. Autumn and Lyons had similar goals, similar levels of technology and there should have been an option for an uneasy alliance or the ability to actually interact with Autumn and have discussions with him. Maybe double cross the Brotherhood? Really underdeveloped for the main villain faction of the game. Did you know that they have an elite squad with unique, named characters in Broken Steel? No? That is because you can't actually talk with them, they just show up and shoot you, like everyone else wearing that model of power armour.

[@papabaer6069]

Interesting. I need to go and play FO 1 and 2

[@fizz2151]

Really quick, as for another point of humanization of Enclave in 2, one NPC guarding the entrence to the base just tries to encourace the player or others to move elsewhere And if your character has enough minus intelligence to be a particularly 'special' case, the soldier guarding the underground base entrance is a lot more polite even All text base, but still As far are Beth ruining the Enclave, I argue in a sense yes they did, but nkt just on a shallow level, but taking away their advancements in a sense. Trying to rewrite X-01 as prewar design, making it seem they don't produce their own vertibirds, and so on. Just, making them seem a bit more dumb in ways than how they usually would be. Good vid btw 👌

[@EkkieEkk]

I'm pretty sure in fallout 2 it's mentioned that everyone in the enclave was called to the oil rig for them to safely do their plan without killing the other members of the enclave. Also pretty sure they came from the west coast in 3.

[@GamesTwiceOver]

If it's mentioned in Fallout 2, I would love to see the source. I spent quite a lot of time looking around, but I wasn't able to find anything.

[@nevermore1570]

What happened with Fallout 3 was the Karma system. Yes it does make some encounters fun but u can tell the games either good or bad. They didnt leave enough quest with the option to do neither. Been cool if you could of done other options besides the good or evil ones

[@MrTypicalPlayer]

For a faction literally created by the rich and powerful it would be foolish to believe they only had a few thousand members and two bases. I’m betting there’s many hidden vault like bases with Enclave.

[@commanderwolf395]

Okay when I saw this I was like "Okay maybe this guy will do the Enclave some much needed justice" I know you sorta did but not all which kind of put a bad taste in my mouth since I love the Enclave "Enclave fan here" and what you said sorta pissed me off and also made a bit sense on some parts For one I agree on the the whole black and white situation in FO3 BoS good Enclave Bad which didn't set well with me since I actually wanted to join the Enclave because I thought they actually wanted to save the Wasteland then destroy it this time and I have said this for many many years to people that "I don't think all of the Enclave were all pro destroy every wastelander, there had to be other sup factions that wanted to help then destroy" And for the Navarro base yes much more the Enclave presence was there then at the Oil rig as the Enclave was just starting to adventure out into California but when the Rig Exploded short after they got the transmission from a person calling himself Eden the President of the United states of America stating that they should pack everything up and regroup at Raven rock at the east coast which left a handful of military Personal behind because they didn't want to go or had believed in this "New President" but other sub factions from this great exodus went their own separate ways with the main force going to Raven rock, if I remember correctly the Enclave has a presence in either New York or Detroit. They basically are living the good life as I heard from the lore that their having the entire area/region under there control Sorry for the ranting you did a pretty good job at the video but in my opinion yes they ruined the Enclave they had Soooooooo much potential in Fo3 then being the cliché Mustache twirling Villain's that they were set out to be and I personally think that there are splinter cells of the Enclave still out there either doing good or bad and I think the Enclave will actually restore North America to a shadow of its former glory but that shadow will be a good one

[@GamesTwiceOver]

"I know you sorta did but not all" That's pretty much the theme of my channel. I criticize things I feel are legitimately worthy of it and praise things that I feel are well done.

[@Rikard_A]

4:43" He has allowed his humaity to cloud his objectivity". Yes. Because he is human and it's the lack 8f humaity that lead to the great war and the vaults.

[@BigMeme]

The problem with Bethesda's ENCLAVE isn't that it's impossible to exist within the lore. There is no lore that contradicts the ENCLAVE still existing. The problem is that it takes the narrative weight out of Fallout 2's ending & it doesn't bring anything new to the series. Could you imagine if after the destruction of the Unity in Fallout 1, Fallout 2's main antagonist was just the Unity again? It feels like Bethesda has an issue where they'll graft the big characters and factions from the original games & then not change them in any interesting ways.

[@demondeity9816]

It doesn't feel like they tried doing anything new with them, or even try to make them more then 2D villians

[@CoolSmoovie]

Next Fallout should be in Alaska where it would make sense for their to be a crazy high Enclave presence. You should have the option to join the Enclave and maybe their rivals would be the Chinese Remnant or something

[@orobasosord6387]

I want an evil enclave that you can still join, like the legion in fnv

[@OxygenDiffusion]

I cant even imagine 3 being without enclave that was the best part of it. even the DLC when you attack Adams Airforce Base is Good Imangin 3 without them.....

[@danielsurvivor1372]

One of the only videos of yours I agree with, when I heard Enclave got "ruined" in F3, I assumed that jn F2 they were complex faction, similar to Caesar Legion or old BOS, but no, they are just as evil as in F3, although better written since they don't half ass it, they're evil in F2 and they remain that in F2, in F3 they tried to humanise Enclave and make them morally grey but failed due to contradictions here and there

[@timothypatch5080]

I hope the Enclave comes back and you can join them they way you can join storm cloaks and imperials in Skyrim

[@zrytun6019]

At the very least they gave them pretty cool power armor

[@lostbutfreesoul]

As an old fallout player I have to say... No, Surprisingly! When Bethesda decided to use an A.I. as the head of the Enclave they showed some creativity and gave this older concept some new life. It would be so easy for them to do nothing more then revive the oil rig and call it Enclave 2.0, something I don't doubt they would do right if they where to make the game today. What surprised me though was the fact they did something to further this concept, instead of simply using the same A.I. every time you encounter Enclave 3.0.... Instead we have multiple A.I. that view themselves as the true 'core' of the Enclave, working with but undermine each other to try and complete some long-defunct plan. While it isn't the freshest of ideas, I will admit, and it isn't handled in a way that makes this concept shine as should... it does not ruin the concept of the Enclave in the slightest. Where I a head writer at Bethesda, I would heavily consider making this fractured A.I. Enclave central to any major plot going forward. With the right sort of direction, I am personally in favour of Zeta vs Enclave, we could see this concept become as central to fallout as Vault Tec itself.