Game Theory: Are Theories KILLING Video Games?

[@Daggz]

Honored to be included in this discussion matpat! Been watching you for like a decade now so it's insane to just casually show up in one of your videos like that, absolutely honored

[@СтепанБандера-м1в]

Жжжж

[@СтепанБандера-м1в]

Шшщщщ

[@stupid_birds]

@flower has eaten wdym ?

[@jadedragon9262]

I know this daggz guy

[@stupid_birds]

@@jadedragon9262 oh ok who is he ?

[@chaosic08]

Game company : "Oh no they guessed it. Quick, change it!" Mat : "I think they changed it. Here's my theory on them changing it!" Game company : "DANGIT"

[@shekosheko4504]

Whykzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc..

[@The_Black_Star]

Wait is it fnaf, oh god!

[@Mr.Djagent6060]

Read my name!

[@thatKole]

@@The_Black_Star no, it's probably hello neighbor

[@nickter745thebold8]

No one’s safe from Matt… Unless I make something alongside what I’m working on to completely throw off Game Theory entirely… 😈

[@homerunproduction]

I think another thing to note is that When MatPat is correct, that doesn't mean your game is predictable, it means (like he said) your story is logical.

[@L1NE_C00K1NG]

Fact. I don’t care if I know who’s the final villain is as long as it was hinted too and has a pay off

[@raziasultana5222]

that makes a lot of sense

[@windums560]

You use extra T's, my friend MatPat

[@homerunproduction]

@@windums560 Ah thank you

[@squadnft5176]

@@homerunproduction ikrkzbin.info/www/bejne/l2LNaqKtd9qqmrM

[@amokriinprolgiid3409]

My favorite case of a creator trying to throw fans off of the truth has to be when Alex Hirsch (the creator of gravity falls) saw that fans started guessing that Stan had a brother who wrote the journals, and he created a fake leak framing McGucket as the author of the journals. It was brilliant and did exactly what he wanted it to do, without sacrificing the story.

[@kaysee2428]

Yea! Alex Hirsch did a great job with that!

[@jamwhip5108]

Alex Hirsch just does right by his add ins and do dads. I remember that even in the cypher hunt after someone accidentally found the next clue he asked the fan base to complete the puzzles for unreleased content.

[@pb4705]

Or how everyone was convinced Tad Strange existed and then he was a normal guy who liked bread

[@jaromweissvert4121]

@@pb4705 I thought he was?

[@butterrboi1776]

@@jaromweissvert4121there was lots of fan speculation that he'd be important, maybe even some sort of sidekick or rival to bill when all the fanbase had was a voice credit to his name in a future episode description. it was pretty funny when he was revealed to be just some guy

[@skeeplebop]

After thorough thought on the subject, I've decided to not leave a comment with the word "jumpkick" in it, only because Matt asked so nicely, and I wouldn't want to disappoint him ❤

[@seedingson2803]

YOU FOOL

[@alexdemary5274]

You just did.

[@St0xMap]

@@alexdemary5274that’s the joke

[@nullut2000]

@@alexdemary5274r/woosh

[@StarlordUEFN]

@@nullut2000Reddit user

[@jricket1]

"Let us be right" and "I KNEW IT!" are rules for DMs running D&D tables too. Sure, make twists, but then keep your clues going in that same direction. Don't punish the players for being clever.

[@lianaverwood9810]

...unless they take it too far, and become smartasses - that's your cue to start messing with them...

[@Koxu_007]

Are you talking about dungeons and dragons

[@lacrossestick132]

YES! I’ve had so man DMs switch up the story last minute and pull twists out of nowhere just to throw us off because we got too close to figuring it out.

[@Lovehandels]

@@lacrossestick132 Yeah I've heard some D&D horror stories about that.

[@ultimazilla9814]

If I become a game developer, I will have a FIXED lore that is pretty complicated and I am actually thinking of it but the timeline is confusing

[@lachlanokeefe8020]

thinking about your conclusion, game devs should do something like Alex Hirsch, creator of Gravity Falls. When fans found his big secret, he did not change his conclusion, he gave something which did not affect the story at all, but gave fans enough doubt about their conclusion that they still felt the effect of a shocking reveal.

[@blankiecat9302]

I mean he did change some thing like added the whole zodiac wich was not important intill fans wanted it to be important so he felt he had to add it in at the last minute so they felt sadifided

[@PneumaAsh]

Can you remind me what that bait and switch was?

[@lucky6961]

and we got a lot of interpretations too, like having Stanley being sure Gideon was a fraud by not knowing his real name, the story always felt consistent

[@thetinykid4169]

@@PneumaAsh It was an orchestrated leak by Alex Hirsch and his team where he produced an image of old man mcgucket being the real journal writer. They even took it down an hour after it was posted to make the leak seem more real.

[@hellotoyoutoo3623]

@@PneumaAsh the old mcguffin i think his name was the 6 fingers it showed up then deleted immediately.

[@dionettaeon]

So, essentially what I'm hearing is that, in a desperate attempt to be unpredictable, some developers panic and lose sight of their own game's congruity.

[@cheemslopez7084]

Auhgg

[@Ka1ven]

Pretty much

[@RedHood001-KA]

EXACTLY!!

[@rutyqutykandi1361]

That's how I felt about batim.

[@MrFilgueiras.]

Not really to be unpredictable, sometimes the dev is just pressured into making a more convoluted story just because of the theorists' spectation

[@mcbjak4346]

I think its a great point that developers should let the fans have their win. The fans will get excited cus they picked up on the correct clues, and the developers laid out the clues in such a way, that there was indeed something to track, somthing to theorise about.

[@Sheeprampage]

Theories make games so much more fun! But i do feel like some games do try to change things after seeing theories

[@III-kk8rp]

Щ

[@III-kk8rp]

Ж

[@GriffinZambia]

Dont read my name!!..

[@Mr.Djagent6060]

Read my name❤️

[@sumitahsan8032]

Hi I watch your videos and I'm a fan

[@Zula_The_Squid]

When theorists are able to guess it right, it's a medal of honour for the developers. It means that their plot makes sense and isn't absolute bullsquid.

[@rest1585]

Fnaf be like:

[@chibi_okami]

Agree

[@cybellecrider9244]

@@rest1585 I’m still trying to understand where we thought mangle caused the bite of 87

[@rewritefan123]

@@cybellecrider9244 Fnaf 4 is the bite of 83 mangle caused the bite of 87.

[@TheRealHalolad]

Nice pun master of squids

[@SaganHawkes]

Woah, really great video, honored to be mentioned in it. Interesting hearing your perspective on this whole topic.

[@odd-eyesvon]

The "don't chase that Game Theory video" is such an iconic line from your channel, that I'm ecstatic that he finally addressed it.

[@anza3007]

Let's Go, I'm so proud of you

[@jojocircus9818]

i love your channel

[@mselysia834]

You're the icon of this channel now buddy

[@shinigami429]

thats right be honored foohl the great master matt pat had chosen you

[@nikorosell7903]

I just wish game developers would make a fun game with an intriguing story, instead of theory chasing 🥺

[@Navarein]

Womp womp

[@Merrsharr]

"I knew it" is way more rewarding than "I didn't see that coming", especially if that twist feels forced

[@sonjaimmonen6610]

And a confused "whaat...????" is even worse.

[@EllenMF12]

I know, the best is that you get more interested in the story, since you guessed it once, the author who made the plot thinks like you do, or follow your logic, so of course you'll read more to see if you can get more things right. Like the opposite is also true, if you believe something gonna happen and it's completely the wrong conclusion you can even get annoyed with the story and plot because there was foreshadowing for one to be the villain, but it was someone else who already was proven to be wrong and it was bs all along... The fans who were reading or following the story won't read because the logic don't make sense to them and it may even make them ignore the story.

[@ting6342]

GG

[@CrymsonNite]

Like Rian Johnson's star wars, that feels like he changed every plot point to be the opposite of fan speculation, and is easily the worst star wars movie.

[@chiboiross_1832]

That's a fact that lines up I'd rather be right than be confused with the overall plot.

[@silhouette_chr]

The funniest damage control ive seen a creator did when their fans' theories predicted the story was with Alex Hirsch with the author reveal. Some fans figured out that (spoilers) the author was Stan's twin brother and to salvage the climax Alex faked a photo "leak" with a single frame of McGucket writing the journal behind him and posted it to reddit- Like mans willing to troll his entire fanbase just for the reveal 😭 but at least he didnt double down and do a last minute change. The author was still Ford and i appreciate that

[@deluxeedition4639]

alex hirsch is a god

[@TameHook128]

Not only that, but in Dungeons, Dungeons, & More Dungeons (S2 E13) they made a gag that the whole twist of Ducktective was that he had a twin brother all along, and then the characters argue how predictable the twist was. Alex Hirsch played 4D chess with the fandom like Bill did with Ford. 😂

[@exudeku]

Alex used one of the oldest trick in making pursuers scramble: red herrings

[@dogecoin9562]

The reveal of Ford was so damn satisfying after seeing all the theories develop over the course of the show

[@silversprint1213]

it was funny but what sucks is when they actually do change the script when it could be best the way it was

[@Stellar09_]

I love how Mat jumpkicks into his transitions. It’s really nice editing style and I might pick it up someday.

[@THESMARTWONS]

fr

[@Brittanysplittany]

Smooth “jumpkick” inclusion 👌

[@mayosanta]

As a writer, seeing people's reactions to a twist is always satisfying. As a consumer, guessing a twist before it happens is always satisfying. Please, writers, realise that you're making something with the primary intent of being enjoyable to an audience. If you get angry and change things when they do something that will make them happy, you're doing a bad job.

[@lordvkef5843]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKu1d41mfK-bo80 kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZWkpXRmqNJor8k Just video

[@user-fp3le7mp3p]

I think the worse part about this is alot of them who actively have a issue put out the clues like a Easter egg hunt. They set the eggs can't really get angry when someone finds them.

[@pancakes8670]

The thing about twists is they have to make sense. If your audience ends up seeing it coming, then oh well. Don't hard U turn and start going down the Interstate backwards

[@chococat2034]

Jumpkick

[@kukuhimanputraraharja8084]

there's also some writers out there who writes just for themselves. only sharing it with others just because they just want to share without thinking too much about it, whether it appease the audience or not.

[@HoweverMayor]

I'd rather have a great predicted story than a "twist" ending that's nonsensical and forced.

[@thebonfireofgains]

GoT anyone?

[@criticalblaster458]

Any examples? Sounds like an interesting topic

[@dodiezero]

​@@criticalblaster458 star wars ep 7-9?? not sure cuz I haven't properly saw theories predicting it or its really just lazy writing & bad executions.

[@mr.holodoc7406]

That's because- every theorist leaves less and less possibilities for big surprises. Just imagine if Bioshock Fans early on said that Atlas would betray you and be Fontain. Then there wouldn't be that great twist, but just a shell that needs something new and better. Problem is: If the Game has allready build upon that early idea, then- you practically have to to it all over.

[@psychophate]

@@criticalblaster458 Last of Us 2: The revenge plot that doesn't end in actual revenge

[@bacaestrife3615]

I am gonna say that if game developers ARE changing their lore last minute around what you're doing, that's just poor decision making on their part. Rushed last minute changes are always gonna be worse than the actual story you were going to go with, fulfilling audience expectations isn't a bad thing, and fact is, if someone watched a theory video and spoiled the game for themselves, that's on them. Like listening to fan feed back is one thing, but changing everything around so it's a surprise, is just a bad idea.

[@yourshoulderdevil5229]

You're right and you should say it.

[@nickter745thebold8]

You can’t tell an interesting and compelling story if everyone expecting it has already figured it out. If that happened, I’d be severely upset and angry, before scrapping the entire story and just abandoning it altogether. I’m not wasting my life making something amazing, only for a theorist to figure it all out and ruin the atmosphere the story is supposed to set.

[@Mr.Djagent6060]

Read my name!

[@Amodh1257]

@@nickter745thebold8 this ^^^^^^

[@Troll_vs.]

@@nickter745thebold8 well to bad. Lore speculation existed before mat and will continue after him. If it can be guessed before you release it then it might not as interesting and compelling as you think.

[@DaveMillerOldSport]

matpat never fails to jumpkick us

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

I can imagine actual game developers out there watching MatPat, just hoping he doesn’t cover the project they’re working on, so the entire lore and backstory isn’t revealed to the public, just because MatPat saw a 15 second advertisement of it.

[@GriffinZambia]

Dont read my name!!😑.

[@SirHimothyMcHe]

Wow nice fake check mark there scammer. EDIT: To clear up confusion this comment is about @The Game Shorts

[@Claddaghplanes]

Sorry your comment I filled with bots

[@mvl666_darkrio]

Report the bots.

[@armageddongirl612]

you know what, jsgwoam, you honestly deserve all these bots in your replies for being so obnoxious in every comment section and leaving comments on videos before even 10 seconds passed.

[@abid5087]

when devs change something last minute to "subvert expectations" or whatever, it just hurts the fans. and it hurts hard like a jumpkick the face

[@nickter745thebold8]

Opinionated.

[@tomorrowisyesterday3215]

I see what you just did there

[@purnimakasiraju.9954]

@@tomorrowisyesterday3215 r/beatmetoit

[@davidarvingumazon5024]

As a Minecraft fan think about this, Minecraft Lore had got to be hardest thing to be theory for Matpat. Minecraft has such a massive creative community, also there's simply too many ideas could be added to the game and lore, making it unpredictable. But WB's Minecraft Movie without Steve as protagonist is disappointing. T_T

[@noheffthing]

The devs are still awesome

[@therandomscout6590]

Game devs are either: "Dammit, this guy spoiled the twist! We need to change it now!" or "We already have an original plot but this theory is more interesting."

[@thebois9152]

spam jumpkick now you wont regrt

[@Foxygrandpa1912]

Wow, this was a real jumpkick of an observation

[@thearcanehunter2736]

I feel like the latter is genuinely fine. It comes out more interesting, though if the theory was flawed it may make it worse.

[@huzaifahahmed4303]

Neither feels like a trend they should follow tbh

[@aaauuguhu9048]

Or: we don't have real lore we just make it seem like it for more popularity so let's pretend this is what we were thinking all along

[@thatoneothergamer6158]

0:11 "the game was unpolished, glitchy and nothing like how we predcited" me: do you know how little that narrows it down?!

[@omaradel210]

What is it

[@bgdy-pw8xj]

Hello neighbour?

[@BanditGames]

Wow. This one hit hard. The infamous delays to Breath of the Wild’s sequel came to mind after I watched this, which is a game that has been heavily theorized over, and of course the messy lore of Security Breach which was also talked about in the video. What a great message, I hope it ripples throughout the game developer world. Theorizing fans are excited fans, and excited fans keep communities alive.

[@visoth7791]

It's my theory that BOTW2 was delayed because of what the devs saw from FromSoftware. They wanted to add Elden Ring gameplay aspects to BOTW. Wouldn't be surprised if we get a whole underground region. And if I am right, they probably were originally only intending a "sky region" addition.

[@hollowshield2315]

Bandit! hey, love your theories

[@shrekecomment8056]

@@hollowshield2315 ikrkzbin.info/www/bejne/l2LNaqKtd9qqmrM

[@Decimator_517]

I was literally thinking about this too🤣

[@janTesika]

woah! I didn't expect to be seeing you here.

[@TheKnocturne]

When it comes to fan guessing the plot twists it's often not a "ugh that was so easy to guess" the reaction is more often "yes I actually guessed it"

[@taizomichael7294]

Exhibit A: MUUUUSSIC MAAAAAAN

[@MossMothMyBeloved]

@Emily An Do what Alex Hirsch (Creator of Gravity Falls) did and create a fake leak.

[@tazdivil6527]

@@taizomichael7294yes. That’s a perfect example of that kinda “Hell yeah! I got it” reaction

[@samarthgoel5835]

I CALLED IT , I FREAKIN CALLED IT

[@TRG_R17]

Reply 5, hmm

[@m-rots]

I think Gravity Falls does theory baiting perfectly. It leaves plenty of clues, some obvious and some not, for the viewer so that it's a fun experience for everyone. If that comes at the cost of some hardcore theorists figuring it out, that's okay! They even joke about that with one of the biggest twists in the series.

[@alexcoffey8804]

"Hardcore Theorists" are some of your most loyal fans. I can't understand when a lot of stories want to punish them with unforeshadowed asspull twists.

[@cityofnewjack]

@@alexcoffey8804 (i assume) its cuz storywriters(storycrafters? cuz video games too?) either get angry that their hard work is seemingly going to waste because fans figure out the story, and then after that the writer changes the ending as one last "ha see you never saw this twist coming!!!( ͡0 ͜ʖ ͡0)" to try and get that reaction from the audience that they feel like they lost. What also could be happening is the author worrying that the fanbase would be dissapointed, and surely some of them would be, having expected a twist and then feeling robbed of that feeling of piecing the twist together in their head, just because they watched a youtube video and because they worry about those fans' dissapointment, it leads to them changing the twist or mystery last second to avoid that problem, ultimately leading to a rushed story

[@r.omantiholic]

yes! gravity falls, steven universe, the owl house, these types of shows (and in turn stories) are always the best because they plant the clues for you to figure out then when it's revealed it feels so much better than a "wow plot twist that you never saw" because it feels like it fits more and makes more sense in the universe we follow along with

[@zapzap1485]

Do you mean series at whole or just the McGucket leak incident?

[@SphoenixBlue]

I miss Gravity Falls so much 🥺 nothing has replaced it for me.

[@focornali4349]

I think it's ridiculous that any type of media would do this (I believe the show runners of West World tweaked the finale of season 1 before of theorists) because most consumers don't read or are even aware of any of this.

[@applewarrior1529]

I totally agree, its a real jumpkick to the face when devs rush a game so the ending doesnt make sense

[@andrewcoburn6519]

I see what you did sir. *gives golf clap*

[@systemdoesmusic]

*joins in on golf clap*

[@mononyon2537]

also joins in golf clap

[@notexpected7439]

Also joins in the golf claps

[@JAX0NIAN]

Also joins in the golf clap

[@AroWolfArts]

The theories don't kill the games, it's the writer/producers killing it by doing stupid last minute changes because they value "subverting the audiences expectation" or just suprising the audience way too high. It's the exact same with written stories like books and the like.

[@shekosheko4504]

Whykzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc..

[@GriffinZambia]

Dont read my name!!..

[@veto_5762]

Bruh the bots

[@landreeallen86]

Subvert their expectations by bot subverting their expectations and just keeping the game the same.

[@Galaxy-rj1kj]

Matpat is killing the games

[@Kale6196]

To all the game developers out there, Matpat is right. Don’t worry about us finding out the lore of your games before you’re ready to release it all; it’s what makes the game fun. Finding out we were right about FNAF (in some cases) made it all the more exciting. It gives us something to talk about and reminisce over, it builds communities and friendships (from what I’ve seen, FNAF kids always migrate together). And at the end of the day, it’s nice find yourself correct about something.

[@nickter745thebold8]

…It most certainly does not.

[@a_d3mon]

@@nickter745thebold8 that's your opinion. I like it when a theory I formulated turns out to be right... Doesn't make me stop the movie/game I'm watching/playing. In fact it encourages me to play even more.

[@EspeonMistress00]

@@a_d3mon I feel this guy is generally not a theoriser of any media and doesn't like it. He is harping ab the same "why theories are bad" points in every reply on the top comments

[@Saitaina]

Yup. We keep coming back to FNaF PRECISELY Bec each new game gives us more bits and pieces. A theory or head canon can NEVER replace the next part.

[@akira8393]

Haha yeah sure buddy, i doubt that

[@octopusjacket3472]

As a Venezuelan, and a huge fan of Drossrotzant, I absolutely love that mat had mentioned his work and the impact it had on the topic

[@themaskedcrusader]

I'm an author. In one of my creative writing courses in college, my professor basically drilled home the idea that was highlighted by George R.R. Martin in this video clip: When the twist happens in your story, don't make it an unexpected twist. When the reader reads the twist, they should say to themselves "I should have seen that coming" because you (the author) laid out the clues before. Crazy storyline twists without clues don't trigger the reader's dopamine response and make the story fall flat. Apparently that's the same thing with video games.

[@lame-o693]

That makes sense

[@AxelNder]

Exactly. Thank you for making this comment.

[@luketfer]

If only the TV show writers saw that for Game of Thrones season 8...aka 'needless unsatisfying plot twists: the season'.

[@mr.holodoc7406]

But if someone, before you even released the Book says "this and that will be the big twist" then- Well, you gotta think of something better, because you don't want to have that big reaction/suprise. And that is the Problem. If you corner a Dev/Writer of the Possibilites of a Twist, then yeah- it'll be bad.

[@takkycat]

One of the best twisty series in my opinion is Gravity Falls. Watchers were rewarded for solving the twists and it was very satisifying!

[@stormaurora189]

When I started watching Game Theory, I was around 12 or 13 years old, and I thought that it would be the coolest thing if I made a game that MatPat could make a theory about. Now I'm a college graduate with a degree in game programming and I still think it would be the coolest thing if I made a game that MatPat could make a theory about. I'd be super excited to have something in my game correctly predicted by theorists!

[@justacommenterno.7700]

That's interesting to know! Maybe I could play one of your games someday :D

[@crystalcat1002]

I'd play your games if my device was compatible with Steam D:

[@FleaOnMyWiener]

@@crystalcat1002 what device?

[@Itsrunzo]

Remind me when you make a cool game

[@eeveebrosstudios]

SAME HERE!!!

[@CrocBoi14]

I agree with mat with the “let us have something” line. If you are watching a murder mystery-type film, it obviously has clues leading to the culprit and as with any puzzle, there is someone who will put the pieces together. If someone figures out who the culprit is, do they just stop playing the movie? No, of course not

[@shikoshiko1210]

Whykzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc..

[@zodycoder]

perfect comparison

[@futurelazarus8217]

This is a great comparison like why would they leave clues if you dont want us to solve it

[@localhdmain6306]

It would be funny if out of no where someone screams "Oh the pizza delivery guy did it" and the movie just fast forwarded to the credits

[@eatyourcreal9365]

@@localhdmain6306 ikrkzbin.info/www/bejne/l2LNaqKtd9qqmrM

[@araleiasper]

At the end of last year, I was able to use this video and the film theory video "How Star Wars Theories KILLED Star Wars: The Last Jedi!" for my graduation IRP. It was really cool to be able to use my favorite channel(s)'s videos for such an important paper and I learned a ton. It's not everyday that you explain the search trends of Among Us in APA format after discussing JJ Abrams' controversial Mystery Box 😆 Thank you MatPat and the theorist gang for making these awesome videos, paving the way for many others to be creative and theorize themselves.

[@SomeBlackGuy]

Depends on the consumer. I stay away from spoilers as much as possible. My close friend however, dives DEEP and wants to know everything before whatever is it comes out, so he loves any and all theories!

[@asaelpaniagua]

My name's Tom sweeny and I....

[@dhilan_yt9412]

@@asaelpaniagua huh?

[@asaelpaniagua]

@@dhilan_yt9412 probably better that you don't know

[@clownymoosebean]

Keith David?

[@chococat2034]

Jumpkick

[@sigull4192]

Not entirely theorists fault but it sucks that this happens and games studios just need to stick with what they have and finish it

[@deepmind5318]

Not at all theorist's fault, because the developer has layed out most of the pieces for them. FNAF Security Breach was working off of hints that creator Scott Cawthon had already put out in previous games and in trailers. We especially know this happened, because the game has almost no Lore, what little story there is, is messy, doesn't make sense, and the gameplay doesn't fit. The creator admitting that he has done this is the final nail in the coffin.

[@khatunamezvrishvili6211]

Not entirely? More like not at all their fault.

[@noheffthing]

Games studios are better than yters

[@TheRealMagicMan]

fr

[@ricardoperezjr574]

Hey do you mind doing a theory on evertale?

[@readysetgameover9977]

I’m 100% convinced that Scott has changed the fnaf lore like 50 times just to spite matpat.

[@westtexas_4491]

yeah and that's extremely frustrating because, objectively, the fnaf story is pretty bad now. it's messy, it accidentally contradicts itself, and it could've been so much better if Scott just told the story instead of trying to keep fans guessing.

[@samefornever5637]

@@westtexas_4491 You also have to remember that the fans hated the original direction the lore was headed (it was all a dream), so Scott wanted to change the lore to make the fanbase happy. That is where you get the majority of your contradicting lore points. The story itself isn’t actually that bad, it just gets so confusing at points that you lose sight of the pieces you’ve already collected and placed together. This best way I can explain the lore: It’s like a tangled clump of yarn, you can see one end that’s connected to the nicely packaged yarn and the other is lost in the clump. You can’t untangle it from one end so you try to find the other end of the yarn. FNaF is a lot like that. The original, neatly packaged story wasn’t well liked so Scott changed it, creating this clump of yarn, but it’ll be all the more satisfying when we finally find that other end, that missing piece and are able to unravel the story.

[@ice-choco-Icecream]

Im kinda convinced otherwise? I feel like the majority of FNAF's lore was shaped by the fandom lol

[@moonlightgarden1921]

I mean yeah, not all of the first 7 games plot points make the most sense, but also keep in mind that writing a story in this style is probably decently difficult to make. I don't mind there being 1 or 2 small plot points that don't really fit, because the story makes sense in the bigger picture.

[@justsomeguywithaplan971]

@@westtexas_4491 well. It purposely contradicts it's self. It has like 3 timelines.

[@konkatikonkati]

Idk, but I think that the game Matt was talking about at the beginning might have been Hello Neighbor based on what Matt said in some theories about the game and how it felt incomplete

[@teeleaf9252]

I feel like sometimes developers forget that the whole point of leaving these clues and hints is for us to piece them together as the story goes on and it sucks ,because the feeling of calling something out before it happens isn't out of superiority ,but it makes you feel like you truly understand and appreciate the work put into this and when writers or artists or developers actually follow through or fulfill that end it feels like a little nod from them to us like *I'm glad you got here* it is 1000000 times better than them changing it for us to be wrong, because then what are we even here for?

[@roberttheronin9803]

For mr Bone's wild ride

[@eatyourcreal9365]

@@roberttheronin9803 okkzbin.info/www/bejne/l2LNaqKtd9qqmrM

[@squadnft5176]

@@eatyourcreal9365 yesss🔥🔥🔥

[@shrekecomment8056]

@@eatyourcreal9365 yessir🔥🔥🔥

[@realsanmer]

I remember reading somewhere that it's ok when your audience figures out the plot twist beforehand; it means the twist is believable and makes sense.

[@Roadent1241]

And it's not a bad thing?

[@fancyboy3806]

Plot twist should still make sense, it subvert expectations but not change it entirely

[@menthols4625]

There's a fine line to balance, if a movie plot is so freaking obvious that the majority guess the plot twist, they won't be happy that it turned out to be such an obvious plot twist, they will think it was boring, but if the movie was pretty deep and complicating so that it took a lot of digging and thinking to figure out the plot twist, then fans would be very happy and satisfied that they figured it out. On the opposite end, if your story is far too complicated and doesn't have coherent hints and foreshadowing, then fans won't like it because it's pointless and impossible to try to figure it out, there's no satisfaction with the conclusion because there was no way to figure it out in the first place. It's a fine line to ride and it isn't easy.

[@EspeonMistress00]

That's literally a JJ Martin qoute that's in the video.

[@a_d3mon]

@@Roadent1241 Nope

[@KaptainKuba]

This is a really interesting topic that I frankly never gave it much thought lol

[@yuseixp3058]

نفسي اشوفك والله انك صادق والله انك صادق والله انك صادق والله

[@Wesmin2]

I feel like the translation of that comment isn't perfect.

[@bojafar8870]

@@Wesmin2 it actually is

[@tanishqpathak2712]

Yo Kaptain Kuba, big fan

[@KaptainKuba]

@@tanishqpathak2712 thank you for watching 😉

[@dr.doctor5099]

I can also understand the developers vision of loosing that sparks when you think your gonna make a story snd slowly others will leatn about it, just to have everything already predicted after like 2 updates or before its even out, youd be like... oh, so much for the build up. But on the otherside, as RR martin said, just build your story you want and planned it.

[@zachattackgaming3066]

Matpat: ARE MY THEORIES KILLING GAMES? Also Matpat: *makes a theory about it*

[@nothing4youhere540]

Maybe making a theory about killing games with theories will kill the game of making theories about games. It's like a very meta seppuku.

[@bicyclesonthemoon]

@@nothing4youhere540 I wanted to make a reply to the comment which basically says the same: "It totally makes sense: If making theory about games kills games then making theory about killing games kills killing games. perfect!" But when I logged in to write it I noticed you already did 1 minute before."

[@einekartoffel2490]

@@bicyclesonthemoon No more Danganronpa and Among Us? :,( /j

[@Xyb3rAnims]

BIG BRAIN

[@panjinurfadillah2489]

A theory in a theory that's like 16 *Theory*

[@enderking_13]

“And if you don’t want to include any real lore at all, fine, I’ll still be here claiming it’s a prequel to earth bound anyways” the most accurate game theory quote

[@IEatSignificantAmountsOfAss]

The fact that Matpat owns the Sans is Ness meme and doesn't shy away from it is pretty respectable. A lot of others would try and hide their past lunacy and just prove the Streisand effect to be real.

[@GREEKPLAYER64]

@keep rolling at

[@jeffjeff9037]

But at that point, wouldn't that mean lore exists whether the developers want it there or not?

[@beashemmad.sayson545]

@@jeffjeff9037 i mean yh, but at the end of the day, they’re just theories

[@beashemmad.sayson545]

@@IEatSignificantAmountsOfAss what’s the streisand effect

[@Astrafurry]

I pray that game company’s will watch this, I feel games like these would be so much better.

[@afewofmycommentsarecringy.8646]

emas (read backwards)

[@waterandcereal]

I think "that game" was Hello Neighbour...

[@tomasbeltran04050]

at least some indie guys will

[@brothers4ever768]

HMMMMM YES! PATHFINDER!

[@q-miiproductions878]

I'm planning on making a game one day, and I'll take this advice to heart.

[@Reddluv2]

I love how scott watches game theory and he goes in and changed stuff to make it even better but like well try to make it better like with the box u could’ve change what is in the box but make it better

[@cjthenarhwalking1378]

Yes and that is this done write, will parts of the fnaf lore contradict what came before it never made the games and story completely fall apart. Security breach had a cohesive story that fit with the lore but steel wool wanted a suprise ending.

[@InsideAMindInsideAMind]

A great video. I personally see a similar problem in ARG's/web series too. I think a lot of creators worry about revealing too much to the point fans might stop talking about their work. The influence of videos like these and how we consume media has been fascinating to me this past year. Glad to see your coverage on this too.

[@newthejsterjacob408]

Oh my gosh Inside a Mind, I love you and I agree with your point, but I do love the videos you make

[@polkadotjohnson]

When two channels you love interact it's almost as pretty as an eclipse

[@newthejsterjacob408]

@@polkadotjohnson very true and very poetic

[@aubreyterry9453]

I love your channel!

[@gealachmidnight6614]

Omg hi IAM

[@nozo7325]

Matt Burnett, from Steven Universe, actually said something interesting about this type of thing : "'I knew it!' Is always better than 'I didn't see that coming.' It's a much more rewarding experience to be right." It's sad that most games of this genre always try to surprise us, when really, getting something right is just as nice as being surprised.

[@ethan5915]

the best games do both--and do the "I didn't see that coming" with things that have actually been hinted about and could be figured out if you were smart/pieced together everything.

[@ExarchGaming]

@@ethan5915 I agree, Bioshock is an incredible example of the latter. the pure essence of "whoa I didn't see that coming"

[@Mephilis78]

This is part of why The Last Jedi sucks, making completely universe breaking twists simply because the fans would never expect it, is cheap and dumb. Edit: capitalized "sucks" instead of "the" for some reason. Glad I read my comments after I hit send lol

[@jeffjeff9037]

I think the issue is that when the viewer watches the video and the product echoes it, it's no longer surprising because the viewer didn't have to think about it.

[@Klarpimier]

Just look at how happy MatPat was when he saw the Security Breach trailer

[@heresywithana]

Mat has finally reached the "Are we the bad guys" level of doing theories.

[@thedeepabyss5754]

@DONTCLICK shut up

[@wariodude128]

Weed-chan... are we the baddies?

[@kylepalmer9094]

"Am I the drama?"

[@averagegenzguy2751]

@@wariodude128 "Weed, come on, it's all behind us. Let us blow it all out of proportion. Why not? I say we we can't have interesting games NO-ONE, no-one can."

[@OmegaQuinn]

He reached that back when Fnaf 4 came out and he did his 800th video on fnaf

[@FormerlyEpicjcat]

Its actually really fun when a theory is completly wrong

[@colekiesler6218]

Matpat 2014: “Let’s solve a series of haunted animatronics.” Matpat 2022: “What was in the box again?”

[@questionister]

These bots

[@temmie5960]

Did we ever find out what was in the box?

[@mothichorror446]

@@temmie5960 nope. Never brought up again.

[@rotprotectorofrateria8042]

@DONTCLICK shut shut it shut

[@massiveidiot77]

It might have been a Robotic version of the crying child

[@nedaraid3372]

Ah, yes, I call this "the Moffat factor" where subverting expectations and "outsmarting" the audience is valued more than actually telling a compelling strory.

[@TheOverArchiver]

I call it “the Nolan factor” because of Westworld, but it’s the same premise.

[@III-kk8rp]

MatPat is a brain burner!(Правдивое видео):. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXK0qYOJrLJnnpI

[@KingsBard]

Still better than Chibnal

[@filmandfirearms]

@@III-kk8rp Why is the Tsar of Bulgaria doing an impression of a paper shredder? Assuming Bulgarian Cyrillic is the same as Russian Cyrillic, that is

[@nickter745thebold8]

It’s hard to tell a compelling story when everyone else has already figured it out.

[@avelinomoreno]

2010s OBSESSION with subverting expectations murdered so many stories.

[@zapkiller7]

Right?

[@ryhlight]

Exactly

[@wilfweNightsky]

Specify it's the late 2010s, most earlier games still had soul in them

[@SeraphimCramer]

Congratulations. I am your 666th like.

[@jstar2332]

who else is here after the announcement of him leaving 😭

[@yellowstarproductions6743]

I am.

It reminds me of the old Sister Location video on GTLive, when you guessed that Afton was a main character in the lore then when the game came out you were correct; it already happened in 2016. Scott didn't change the story just because you guessed it correctly prior to the games release, he continued with it. That made the game 10x better just because we knew that we got something right lore-wise.

[@AstoricaArt]

And sometimes when Matpat and the community were going off the tracks and assuming things that he didn't intend, Scott would go back and fix things to clarify what he meant, unless he liked how it changed the story

[@logdinafter383]

When Matpat said "Let us have something" it immediately made me think of MUSIC MAN because the amount of satisfaction from him seeing that he got it right was insane and I think it's a big example of us actually getting something.

[@Gooberpotomous]

Exactly my thoughts as well

[@mr.holodoc7406]

But it could've been a much more cooler Character tho. Afterall, it could've been one of Vanny's Constructs. Hell, it could've been a bunch of Robots mixed together.

[@notactuallyacat.]

If developers/writers don’t want us to solve the mystery, then that begs the question: why did you bother leaving clues?

[@akira8393]

it's basically just left for a speculation but when you have a fan that just basically spoiled everything before the big reveal, that's when it becomes a problem

[@THEJPIndustry]

So that after the twist the fans can go back/replay and be like omg its foreshadowed here, what an idiot i am for not thinking about this"

[@DarkRaikon]

well .... games sell more when you're unsure...

[@Predated2]

The better thing to ask is: why did you leave so many clues? Because often enough, if it takes 1 game for the player base to deduce the plottwist as one of the biggest things to happen in the next game, even if it is a plottwist you preferred was kept secret but discoverable on second playthrough, then you simply left too many clues. The key rule to plottwists is to leave out enough evidence to hint at a potential plottwist, but that there is more evidence on the contrary. Again, not too much to a point where it feels like the potential plottwist is being covered up making it more obvious. But just enough red herrings to show there is something is not right, but with enough normality for players to not dig too deep. Let alone that the biggest killer of plottwists is devs adding certain files that can be detected by the second game that have super obvious names. And if someone manages to guess it correctly even against your best efforts to avoid it being revealed, just admit defeat and toss them a bone or easter egg in the update.

[@kamieldekoning6639]

@@akira8393 but no one spoiled anything because you don't know if it's right. you will still be excited about a twist even if matpat made a video about it correctly

[@asbdowasduwagibberish4700]

mat is so obsessed with theories that he made a theory involving his own theories that theorify the games that he discusses for the theory.

[@r3bel758]

As a fanfic writer, I'm usually ecstatic when someone figures out the next plotpoint I'm introducing. It makes me happy knowing that it makes sense, and it makes them happy knowing they got it right. Companies shouldn't be changing the plots of their stories and games just because someone predicted them, and it always sucks when the Internet goes "oh! we figured this out!" so the story gets thrown into the trash.

[@LeuBlue]

So true haha

[@ooi97]

More than that, these companies don't take into account that their plot is going to become known anyway and it will have to defend itself from scrutiny for years to come.

[@Smiuley]

Same, I do write original work and if I have a plot twist, I want to achieve an "Omg that makes so much sense" moment, but a "I knew it!" is just as great. The worst is if it doesn't make sense from a reader's perspective or if the clues haven't been laid out properly

[@nickter745thebold8]

It would make me absolutely furious if someone figured out what I was writing and I’d be forced to restart everything from scratch. It ticks me off like you wouldn’t believe.

[@djsanders4813]

@@nickter745thebold8 Why would you have to restart? That's just overly insecure.

[@clairepandabear]

This reminds me of that one scene from the matrix: Oracle: "I'd ask you to sit down, but, you're not going to anyway. And don't worry about the vase." Neo: "What vase?" [Neo knocks over a vase of flowers, which shatters on the floor.] Oracle: "Ohh, what's really going to bake your noodle later on is, would you still have broken it if I hadn't said anything?"

[@nauticalcynosurenc2706]

I thought that said Onceler

[@gabrielespindola4461]

The developers should never change the game's story just because of fan theories, be they right or wrong. They should only make changes they belive are better than what they already have.

[@fandomfancallie1446]

I got an ad of this guy and the first thing he said is that I was watching a game theory video, cool but, slightly freaky

[@il_moddo]

"Let us have SOMETHING" is a key sentence I think. It's like twist villains in movies, someone turns out to be the big bad making a 180 change in personality without any clue pointing out to it it just feels forced

[@eatyourcreal9365]

Okkzbin.info/www/bejne/l2LNaqKtd9qqmrM

[@squadnft5176]

@@eatyourcreal9365 yessir🔥🔥🔥

[@pupsnipps]

Frozen: 😅

[@shrekecomment8056]

@@eatyourcreal9365 yessir🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@Queen_Sakura]

oH aNnA. iF oNlY tHeRe WeRe SoMeOnE oUt ThErE wHo LoVeD yOu.

[@animeking5068]

Fun Fact: Matpat was only able to predict the plots because the developers had put clues in the game that led to it

[@Chillipeffer]

OMG!!!!

[@ondiiina]

It literally shows that they did their job right so there's no shame in the story being predicted

[@pedroberti1588]

Like how Disney had to refilm Rogue One because he got right the Kylo Ren soldiers 🤫

[@roaringthunder115]

Yeah

[@voltrex7661]

Do you expect to form a theory with no evidence 😂😂😂

[@FireyJm]

Theories make sure dead games are alive again and makes everyone look into it again.

[@GriffinZambia]

Dont read my name!!😑.

[@lolzha8163]

Yes, I agree. Also Damn that's alot of bots

[@owyemen9367]

This is why I'm waiting for Matt to do a SoT theory

[@hey5929]

Yea when he covers horror games IV never even heard of it makes me think more about the game and wanting to try it

[@Mr.Djagent6060]

Read my name

[@mdfalcon2665]

20:52 "ruin" "11" so it was fnaf SB , steel wool ceo , 11 is for the times Scott changed his plans but heeeey it's just a coincidence , a coincidence theeeeeory

[@ozone20rulez]

"Yes, and" from Improv comedy might be a useful trick. Whenever in DnD, as a DM, find that my players are able to predict where the storyline is going (Or get over excited about a storyline I didn't really think about) I tend to set what they predict in stone, BUT add more to it, so they feel satisfied in their ability to theorize about my DnD game, but are also surprised by unexpected turns and events.

[@MiuKujo]

Exactly, I do something very similar. Sometimes, the theories your players have are even better than the twists you had planned.

[@wonderinart8429]

That's a great strategy

[@esppupsnkits4560]

“Yes, and” plus “no, but” are quite useful

[@kevinl4837]

To all game developers: As much as we like twists into the story, we also like getting our theories correct.

[@TheNovemberain71]

100% true

[@redbomb6797]

Well thats a jumpkick.

[@shrekecomment8056]

@@redbomb6797 okkzbin.info/www/bejne/l2LNaqKtd9qqmrM

[@tealablu3759]

If there’s a twist, we want it to make sense. We NEED it to make sense! Otherwise the ending isn’t satisfying. Whether we got it right or wrong is whatever, but MAKE IT MAKE SENSE, MAMA!!!

[@dadeamatic3772]

@@tealablu3759 Right? It’s more fun to realize it was an error in judgement than to realize there was no point in trying at all

[@dazcarrr]

changing the plot of the game to deliberately make it different from theory predictions is the weirdest thing, making the theories correct just gives everyone the satisfaction of "wow, we were actually right! great job everyone!" and otherwise everyone's just disappointed. if anything you'd think it'd be more common to retrofit the story to align with theories instead jumpkick

[@III-kk8rp]

Жжжжжж

[@nickter745thebold8]

It kills the excitement.

[@pran_irl]

I just want to jumpkick out. By hearing that the companies are changing their games by watching fan theories.😢

[@ItsJustLom]

See, what developers and writers seem to forget, is that if fans are theorizing about your story... it means the fans are *interested.* It means we're paying attention. Don't punish fans for enjoying and being engaged in your story by sabotaging your story just to try and surprise us.

[@-Luocha-]

Finally the dumb bots are here. Anyways I agree with what you said

[@noheffthing]

Devs are still amazing tho.

[@adammarano8264]

"If you design a story where the butler did it, and somebody guesses it. You can't just change it to be the maid. It won't make sense and it isn't worth "subverting expectations" if it ruins the story ultimately." Some paraphrased author, probably.

[@thatkangajackie1841]

Yeah, just the author of Game of Thrones, no biggie

[@beProsto]

@@thatkangajackie1841 ngl i have only heard of that movie like a year ago and neither i nor literally any of my friends still know basically anything about it so i read the "no biggy" very literally 🙃

[@britanimations2002]

It's Hello Neighbour, I know it, you know it, we all know it to be the case

[@pocketshi9935]

Yeah same it has to be

[@СтепанБандера-м1в]

MatPat is a brain burner!(Правдивое видео):. kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXK0qYOJrLJnnpI

[@JustFrogThings]

@@СтепанБандера-м1в 😐

[@thefnafdetective]

Duhhh

[@JustFrogThings]

Wish they’d delete the game instead of changing it

[@narrator-bf]

man what if sonic's legs did a JUMPKICK ( matpat you used a hard word to make a joke about )

[@partypoison8476]

Im so glad Hello Neighbour was in this discussion. I have always wanted to hear MatPat's thoughts on those tweets

[@thegoldendiamond6762]

Hello Neighbor is a crappy game

[@Nightbird8272]

@@thegoldendiamond6762 it was so promising, disappointed to hear how it turned out. I hadn’t heard much of anything about it since the original alphas.

[@Banana807]

@@Nightbird8272 it ended up dissapointing bc from what i heard the company fired the devs and replaced them with new ones when alpha 2 came out

[@Yodah97]

Me too. It was nice to see him address them.

[@ayowhat210]

I'm glad you mentioned the fact that Security Breach was kind of disappointing. I was hyped for it and the characters but it felt like eating a pie with no filling, and sometimes the occasional raisin with how glitchy it is and those annoying hallway bots

[@artisticgiftfromabove]

I feel like the developer was from fnaf security breach, cause of the fact it’s NOTHING like the trailer, and it was buggy as hell when it came out so many glitches and quite boring

[@saulgoodman1482]

@@artisticgiftfromabove hmmm, idk if they would be “angry” tho at Matpat and change the whole game. Still it’s my main theory aswell

[@veli9755]

Matpat. The only person that’ll make a theory inside of a theory, he already hypothesized.

[@muddyman_eughh]

@u know me soap cutting asmr?

[@alanna1422]

1:01 the music :awesome The intro: awesome The editing : awesome The video: AWESOME AWESOME!!!!

[@shmelly_burger3643]

The self-awareness in this video is remarkable, I never thought of these videos having an effect on the games but it makes total sense. Please, if a game dev is reading this, if you're going to change things do it on your own terms. Don't throw away the map for the treasure at the end. It's about the journey for a lot of us, not the destination.

[@lordvkef5843]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZWkpXRmqNJor8k kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKu1d41mfK-bo80 Just video

[@Guitar-Dog]

Did you not know that MatPat has been writing all these games? That's why I gave up with him becuase it was just a circlejerk

[@New3DSLuigi364]

@@Guitar-Dog NO WAY!!! He is NOT writing these games; He's Only THEORIZING about these games; IF HE WANTED TO MAKE HIS OWN ORIGINAL GAME WITH HIS OWN CHARACTERS & LORE; THEN HE'D WRITE IT HIMSELF; AND I DON'T THINK HE'D GIVE AWAY THE ENTIRE PLOT OF HIS OWN GAME IN ONE OF HIS OWN THEORY VIDEOS!!! BECAUSE WHAT'S THE POINT OF MAKING A THEORY ABOUT SOMETHING THAT YOU AS THE CREATOR WOULD HAVE KNOWN ALL THE ANSWERS TO ALL YOUR GAME'S MYSTERIES?!!! IT'D BE BORING AND PREDICTABLE; ESPECIALLY IF HE'S N-O-T TRYING TO DEFY THE AUDIENCE'S EXPECTATIONS; LIKE THE GAME DIRECTORS HE MENTIONS IN THIS VIDEO DID!!

[@catattack7639]

@@Guitar-Dog lmao

[@TrickyTalon23]

MatPat should have no blame for any of this. At the end of the day, he’s just a fan like us. And we choose to watch his videos and spread his word. We approve of his analysis and ask for more. This is a lot alike his film theory video on the movie “The Lorax” where all the trees get destroyed and it’s not the fault of the man who cut it down, but the population who insistently approved of him doing so for what came from it. Just like MatPat’s situation. One person who took a jump in a different direction than most and ended up with unforeseeable consequences.

[@GriffinZambia]

Dont read my name!!😑.

[@rocknrepublic9046]

This ^^^ needs to be pinned

[@basic_avarage_person]

Might as well say its not muerderer fault but us for exist,after all if we dont exist who the muerderer gonna murder

[@Mr.Djagent6060]

Read my name..

[@emberlyncrow3704]

Agreed!

[@KickUpHammyDude]

*"Let us have something!"* *"Let us be right!"* I cannot agree with this conclusion more! To any game devs out there! Don't think that if we are correct, it will make the final product less fun. It makes the victory come with bragging rights!

[@arcanestoryteller7645]

Absolutely. I hope what he said about SB isn't true, but, y'know.

[@kaxcommentssomethingREAL]

absolutely agree, i think more upcoming devs should know about this video!

[@entxty1]

So my hulu keeps unpausing for no reason so when you said "Lemon party" it started the JJBA part 3 intro. it was hilarious. So funny I almost jumpkicked someone

[@BeansOnButter]

Matpat: That's JUST A THEORY Everybody: No.. no that's straight-up fact, you right

[@Toy_freddyofficial1]

This is sadly true even for the dumb theories that are not confirmed.

[@Marshall.R]

@@Toy_freddyofficial1 no, in those cases the entire internet gets out their pitchforks and banishes him to the shadow realm

[@stakezen7825]

@@Toy_freddyofficial1 Hollow Knight, Sans is Ness

[@Toy_freddyofficial1]

@@Marshall.R unless it's fnaf cough cough gregory is a robot.

[@Toy_freddyofficial1]

@@stakezen7825 just read what I said to the other guy

[@angrymushroom2414]

It isn't just games, either. I've seen TV shows and movies that clearly changed plot elements to subvert audience expectations. I'm still convinced that was the case with Scream Queens, and it ruined the show.

[@hopelesslag]

What happened with Scream Queens cause season 2 was a mess

[@lordvkef5843]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZWkpXRmqNJor8k kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKu1d41mfK-bo80 Just video

[@doodleydooo945]

I read your comment and I had game of thrones war flashbacks

[@livvie2004]

this but with pretty little liars omfg

[@thegoldendiamond6762]

Hey weebs don't have any rights to comment

[@danielpaterson2694]

Honestly, if I was a game dev in this exact scenario, I'd truly joke about it and then send you a care package or maybe put you in as an easter egg.

[@DingusTheArtist]

“Finally it’s here” wtf are these bots on about?!

[@danielpaterson2694]

@@DingusTheArtist I think I'm being targeted.

[@vyor8837]

I'd do the same.

[@elstarnor4628]

the devs of Kindergarten actually did this with Kindergarten 2 and the pile of chicken nuggets. If you don't get it, Matpat did playthroughs of both of them on GTlive

[@yourshoulderdevil5229]

That definitely seems like the better way of doing it instead of changing the whole game.

[@John83118]

This piece is quite remarkable; akin to a book I found equally enthralling. "Game Theory and the Pursuit of Algorithmic Fairness" by Jack Frostwell

[@meogatopreto]

This makes me remember my experience with One Piece. I got the spoiler that one character would die, and since I never cared for spoilers was like "whatever". Five arcs forward, even KNOWING what would happen, the death scene hit me like a brick because of the way it got constructed. Discovering that x or z will happen don't will necessarily ruin your experience because discovering HOW it happens is more important.

[@vaporean_boylove.0w083]

I really like this take.

[@bennytennyson]

The bummer is that when you get a spoiler from manga when you're an anime watcher and manga is like a year ahead of the anime. That's exactly what happened to me and Uzumaki Khan so he and i are gonna be a manga reader now which is sad because i really love the anime and not used to the manga.

[@maximillion322]

Yeah, One Piece really aced the impact of that characters death

[@GregDickinson75]

Exactly. As an example, this is the last season of Better Call Saul. All the fans of Breaking Bad *know* where the series has to end up by the end, but it's the journey that has us all hooked.

[@gemmacruz6356]

Same. I got into One Piece late (the end of whole cake) when I started reading the manga I knew about Ace, my brothers had told me, I've seen it on Amv, I've seen on list of saddest moments but it still made me react as if I didn't know what was going on. I was so invested I forgot about spoilers. Also Oda planned things 100 chapter before the pay off. He's a god.

[@kendallgarciaa]

Theories actually make games waaaaaay funnier and interesting for me, they show another side of their story which contributes in keeping the games fresh

[@PoisonIvory088]

I guess

[@PoisonIvory088]

@The Game Shorts 🅥 fake gt lol

[@qazisgone7292]

@@PoisonIvory088 its a bot

[@GriffinZambia]

Dont read my name!!😑.

[@ArcaellusV427]

Yea same. They might not always be true, but they're still entertaining.

[@artozilla5653]

I think that MatPat is very right. In the end, players just want a full filling game, that fits into the lore. So it is incredibly disappointing when a perfectly fine game is rushed or changed just because fans theorized correctly about the game.

[@kowhaifan1249]

@DONTCLICK bots );

[@LEFT4GABEN]

Gameplay gives moar Enjoyment than Lore or Aesthetics Simple As!

[@KoiiDaBoii]

your videos are always a great jumpkick to my morning (idk what that word means)

[@valemartin665]

"it's a game we are quite familiar with" me: IT'S FNAF! "we've done a few theories about it" me: IT'S NOT FNAF!

[@CHRF-55457]

wdym?

[@emmiebunny04]

I think it's Bendy. Joey Drew was supposed to be Bendy if you look in the game files (mat has spoken about it in one of his bendy vids) and all of a sudden he wasn't.

[@emery1457]

@@CHRF-55457 if the game hes talking about actually was fnaf he wouldn't say they've made a few theories abt it because he's done MANY

[@NewSkater3000]

@@emery1457 nah he's just playing it down

[@pearz1007]

@@emmiebunny04 I thought it was hello Neighbor

[@Sylocat]

One extra possible factor here: A lot of writers say their lawyers forbid them from reading fanfic of their own work, for fear they'll get sued for "stealing" ideas from fans if the fans' guesses turn out to line up with what they had in mind (JMS and Neil Gaiman, among many others, have talked about this). I doubt the Security Breach devs were afraid you'd sue them, but they might have been worried that the fanbase would accuse them of lifting ideas from you (rather than, y'know, you just guessing right from the clues they left).

[@aceaids4000]

I'm partially with you on this one. When the community gets ahead of the show, game, or book in terms of where the story will go, creators would fear they are just taking from the fans and not being original. However I think it would be honoring to see the story line up with something popular in the fanbase as it makes everyone happy it becomes part of the canon. And of course, I say partially agree because there's a ton of other factors like what Matpat said in the video or the fear that the community will stop talking about your media since everyone's figured out everything.

[@marcusanark2541]

Interesting take.

[@itsmollang8301]

@DONTCLICK shut up

[@skippysandwich]

I remember this happening in the Steven Universe fandom. SU crits on Tumblr were accusing the writers of stealing theories from the fans, because apparently they couldn't fathom that the theorists had just been right.

[@SHEESHAW100]

@@skippysandwich Yup OP's comment literally reminded me of a few people's reaction to the theory "Rose Quartz is Pink Diamond" being true.

[@theoryart2183]

Firstly, jumpkick. Second, justlike with books, movies, and tv series, being a little ahead of plot or lore makes you feel smart, satisfied and sense of achievement that holds your attention and keeps you playing. As long as things aren’t transparently obvious or beaten over your head with in-game dialogue repetition, we’re still going to play, and hopefully, love.

[@lordvkef5843]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZWkpXRmqNJor8k kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKu1d41mfK-bo80 Just video

[@miltortmanapaste6302]

Exactly. Us finding lore means your story works. It means your hints lead to the correct conclusion. But if you panic and change it, the entire thing changes.

[@jdh9419]

Is it just me, or is the new Game Theory host undergoing the exact opposite problem MatPat is here? FNAF:SB kept changing against MatPat's theories so that he could never get it right, but I feel like Poppy Playtime is trying to make the theories correct. Like, I swear, the plot-twist at the end of chapter 2 was so incredibly uncalled for, and the only explanation as to why it happened in the first place was Mob feeling the need to make Game Theory right. Let them be right and wrong, idiots!

[@anniebannanielosttheirnanny]

I feel the makers behind the games when it comes to making the lore. It's a great feeling and is incredibly satisfying to see the reactions of others towards your hard work once it's shown to the world. Though it's frustrating, and sometime's feels deflating, when someone theorizes something and they're on the dot about it. You just cling to that shock factor and somehow drag it back by tweaking a few things or you just wanna give up because "the fans already guessed it, what am I working with if just stuff the fans will gloss over while they taunt about how right they were." I'm currently practicing writing and have written a few stories already. My friend reads each chapter once they're done and she also likes guessing what's gonna happen next. Most times she ends up being right and I just feel so empty-handed as to what to shock her with in the next chapter. I am very much guilty of going back and changing some things because of blindly chasing the shock and mystery. At the end of the day, I realize that the story you make goes in ways you don't want it to by making those changes. It looks messy and unresolved with too many plotholes to cover with some extra piece of lore. It's sometimes hard to see the story you worked on for weeks be unravelled in just minutes but it's better to let the fans get what they deserve than change stuff around so you can still have a level of mystery. Definitely, a lesson to be learned and something all creators alike need to work past. Like Matpat said on behalf of fans, "Let us have something. Let us be right."

[@nickter745thebold8]

And where’s the excitement in that? Theories that spoil a story are less exciting than being completely thrown off.

[@СтепанБандера-м1в]

Ж

[@mlinxl9090]

@@nickter745thebold8 where’s the excitement in plot twists and turns that don’t make any goddamn sense, it is frustrating for me when game’s try to surprise us, and sure at first you have that feeling of shock and excitement in the moment but then you look back at the game and try to piece the story together only to find a muddled pile of foreshadowing, lore, characters that don’t resolve in any way, it’s like the first part of the story doesn’t match with the rest.

[@sabikikasuko6636]

Ultimately, that just accounts to proper discipline. Yeah, you may have specific feelings on your story and on how its fans relate to it, but your story comes first, and you had a plan and you should follow it despite what you may feel. Who knows? Maybe the shock can still be there, only in some other form! Maybe the shock was that she actually got it right, maybe the shock was in how exactly you storytold the events, someone guessing the death of a character doesn't mean she'll know whether you told it poetically, graphically, gruesomely, depressingly, with focus on the death, in how the dying character feels, in how their friend feels, there are so many things you can create shock and generate feels with! Don't abandon just because they know, because them knowing is 1) a testament of how coherent your storytelling is, and 2) product of effort, which in turn will make the revelation of them being right ALL THE MORE REWARDING!

[@spooky.6473]

@@nickter745thebold8 there’s no excitement in ruining your entire story for shock value either- often what comes out of it is worse than the initial vision you had

[@JeetTol]

Wonder if this trend reflects the film industry as well. Could directors be changing their films based on fan theories?

[@Mimi-wb3el]

I would say no? Simply because of how Spider-Man no way home panned out. Everyone predicted that they would all be in it and everyone predicted the mj catch. And while it was heavily predictable it was also heavily anticipated. So like everyone keeps saying I feel like theories make the hype and give it more publicity than it’d normally get.

[@Raccoonrenegade]

I think not because I think game developers have a better connection to their community than film makers

[@doesthisIookinfected]

Or even TV shows changing just to fulfill fan service.

[@wesleywinn]

I’m inclined to say that the recent Star Wars movies did that. Because they got all messy and boring after the whole fan-base was wanting Reylo or whatever. I could be wrong though, I haven’t looked into it, just casual speculation. It could’ve just as easily have been poor movie design.

[@stalinsoulz7872]

Well the endgame have to literally troll it's fans like infinity just to derail them a bit to not catch the jig

[@vivimos_en_una_sociedad7758]

Man its such a shame that nameless Hello Neighbour developer had to go nameless to hide the identity of the game they were developing (that was definitely not Hello Neighbour)

[@glowstyc7758]

i thought it was poppy playtime tbh

[@vivimos_en_una_sociedad7758]

@@glowstyc7758 He said it was before launch. Poppy playtime was already out when mat made theorys on it.

[@virginiad.1911]

@@vivimos_en_una_sociedad7758 Not chapter 2, tho?

[@wakspacific6928]

The nameless dev isn’t the Hello Neighbor guy, as confirmed on Reddit. By process of elimination, it was Mike Mood of Bendy. He’s the only one of the possible devs to be a CEO of a game, and Mat was making theories about the game (such as Joey being Bendy) that seemed close to what was alluded to. Chapter 5 was seen as a disappointment by many, and even poked fun at the “bendy is Joey” theory via an Easter egg. It couldn’t have been Steel Wool because they don’t own FNaF. It couldn’t have been MOB Games because their game hasn’t fully come out yet. Mike Mood is the only dev to be a CEO of a company within the possible options.

[@naruspheal1831]

@@wakspacific6928 and can you say why it wasnt hello neighbor? I mean of them all it was probably the worst of em even with fnaf sb

[@sleepybunny186]

We’re really gonna miss you jumpkick …. Wait I mean Matt!