Why Having two Sith was so much BETTER than Having an Army of Sith

[@hunterkiller1440]

The Sith: *Wipes each other out* Also the Sith: We'll have our revenge against the Jedi for our extinction.

[@JujuInFlames]

*genocides themselves* “LOOK WHAT YOU MADE US DO”

[@JohnSagin-SimViDeLucis579]

@@JujuInFlames Whats great is Bane had more to do with it than the Jedi

[@AndreNitroX]

exactly the revenge of the sith in general has always confused me. do they want revenge for the original 12 fallen jedi, the sith species genocide or just individual sith revenge. Darth Bane personally didnt hate the jedi.

[@Gr3nadgr3gory]

@@AndreNitroX perhaps the dark side as a whole was getting revenge for years of the light overpowering it.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@Gr3nadgr3gory perhaps, but the dark side and the force are one in the same. Just like the moon and its dark side, there is no battle there, it depends on the force wielders.

[@grayfullbuster6777]

Maul to savage: im the master and you're the apprentice Darth sidious: *your free trial has expired*

[@geetslys]

YEET

[@exoplanet4905]

Nice

[@grayfullbuster6777]

@@geetslys haha we meet again

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Oh, sure, Sidious, explain your Hands, the Inquisitorius, and Acolytes?

[@grayfullbuster6777]

@@michaelandreipalon359 they weren't fully trained to be sith

[@buckanderson3520]

Considering that the sith are all about stabbing each other in the back I would say that having only one person to worry about rather than an army is a smart move.

[@AndreNitroX]

Straight from Darth Revans mouth

[@thalmoragent9344]

@@AndreNitroX Oh, did he say that for real?

[@AndreNitroX]

@@thalmoragent9344 revans holocron that darth bane finds in his book, says to bane that it has always been tradition to have a master and apprentice, but that it should be strictly 2 to prevent multiple apprentices from working together to kill their superior.

[@undergrounddojokeyboardcag701]

This is one of those concepts that sound good at first. But you cant apply too much thought to it or the idea completely falls apart.

[@sebas8225]

@@undergrounddojokeyboardcag701 Yeah case 2 sith cant destroy a Jedi Order of hundreds to thousands. Also Ro2 has a problem where the rule´s safety is only ensured if the Master does proper mentoring to the apprentice and doesnt attempt to undermine them for eternal life or some typical selfish Sith ploy, which is contrary to the Evil the Sith fall for to begin with, why should a Sith Master be selfless enough to the order to allow the apprentice to kill them? Case they can literally maim or put the apprentice down anytime they want before they are a accomplished a threat, this is why Bane´s Ro2 had tumultous cases like Gravid, Plagueis, Tenebrous, Millenial, Vectivus, etc... where these sithlords clearly didnt give a Rat´s ass about executing the rule as envisioned.

[@corpyhogan4433]

Because unlike the Jedi the Sith can never work together because it’s in their nature to try to betray and take over

[@AndreNitroX]

Darth Bane even used that to his advantage. Knowing full well his apprentice Zannah would try to kill him someday he realized the apprentice should only surpass the master if they successfully killed them keeping the line of sith strong with each new generation

[@michaelandreipalon359]

"Treachery is the way of the Sith." Remember that.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@michaelandreipalon359 Yes "the dark side is like a venom, it must be concentrated not diluted"

[@Petaurista13]

@@AndreNitroX in fact: how the hell was it suppose to work? As long as I understand Dark Side users don't use other source of power and Force is not limited globally.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@Petaurista13 to my understanding the dark side is limiting but powerful, only a few can truly use it, but it is self destructive, despite the power it gives.

[@minicle426]

What's even better? Having one Sith with an army of GONK Droids. Unlimited power.

[@Agent_Pear]

Armed gonk droids

[@thatman666]

Why not a Sith Droid?

[@benjaminbrockway5998]

UNLIMITED POWER!

[@nathancarroll1716]

Clankers

[@geetslys]

Minus the Sith.

[@lightningcat82]

The Sith ruled without any true opposition for about 15 to 17 years. And even in that time, within the ranks of the Empire, the same betrayals and treachery were weakening it, without any of them being Darksiders. The Force just makes things bigger, it does not change the nature of things.

[@marakalos3838]

Correct. A well organized Empire had this, and it was spread thin. The inner corruption was a grand way to show cracks forming. More Sith, loyal to Sidious and Vader, would have meant enforcement of the Empire and what it should be. However the nature of people just leads to rivalry again. The Jedi did their best to prevent this by forming their order with younglings taken to training from an early age. All they knew was the Order. Sith are too individualistic and power hungry. If the Sith could put down their fanatic individualism from time to time, which had been shown rarely in pre-Disney canon, then they would have no problem banning together.

[@fyrespark2077]

@@marakalos3838 yep. Bane proposing the rule of two was just him being a moron. He's respected way too much as a leader. Might be a good character, but he set the sith on a path of self destruction

[@thalmoragent9344]

@@marakalos3838 Yeah, if the Empire had recruited you for Force individuals and asked them to join the Empire as say, a bit higher ranking officers, then you'd have essentially the same thing the Republic had; a handful of force sensitives leading troops into battle, helping solve issues that most Stormtroopers of Officers couldn't solve on their own. You can have young Sith who's Companionship and love for one a other is the force that drives them. Sure, don't have to teach them all your apprentice knows, but have them essentially be lesser Vaders, strong enough to be a force to be reckoned with upon the Empire's enemies, but not so powerful to screw things up with Vader or Palpatine. If they really want to achieve power, then they need to take their own initiative, and teach themselves what they can, or learn small lessons from Vader or Palpatine. Then, if one declares they wanna take Vader's position, then he challenge Vader. Maybe don't kill the guy if he looses, but cut off an arm or something, show the consequences of tryna usurp power from the apprentice. So yeah, Revan's idea of 2 in charge with officers below them but with their own skills put to use and not taught to be too heavily competitive works well. Maybe not too many, you gotta have them manageable and be disciplined within reason, but having ONLY 2 with the occasional extra "assassin" is BS

[@RandoGrunt]

I would like to say though that I doubt Palpatine intended the Empire to be anymore than a shell and a smokescreen to surround himself and his apprentice. Namely just to protect himself from any Force Wielders that would try to stop him from his greater ambitions. As once his Empire can manage itself without him or Vader needing to be involved, he'd probably retreat to go explore more Dark Side projects to further his own power with the help of Vader, the most powerful force user to of ever lived, to get to his goal of becoming Dark Side itself and dominating all life in the galaxy. This raw defiance and perversion of the force itself would be sensed across the galaxy, started with the ambitions of Darth Plageuis and further continued with him. Goes in with why Palpatine's actor describes Palps as being worse than the Devil.

[@LordChaosHavik]

As Media Zelot Points out. The Rule of Two was good for when they were in the shadows, but was a horrible idea for an Empire and it's succession laws.

[@Sayuameangkis]

You forgot one huge flaw in the rule of two, a flaw that almost destroyed everything the Sith built as well as its history, Darth Gravid. He was a Sith lord in the rule of two who turned to the light and began to destroy all the work the Sith had done. This is why Sheev never had the knowledge or powers of older eras for one traitor, centuries of Sith lore and power gone in a blink of an eye. The only reason the Sith even survived this to get to Sheev is because Darth Gravid's apprentice killed him to stop him, even as two treason is part of the Sith. In the end the rule of two did not stop treason it only made the Sith more fragile to being destroyed, they gave up there armies, empires, and power for a solution that did not stop the problem.

[@UnexpectedWonder]

Exactly!

[@aguy7848]

The Sith fucked up. That's why they keep getting deposed, without their army, you just gotta kill the two guys.

[@mercury2157]

@@aguy7848 very funny to think some kind of fluke like a ship accident could end centuries of manipulation and espionage

[@XaldirGodofGood]

I think its a giant miracle that the Rule of Two survived as long as it did. Especially for an Evil Faction, there is a lot of Stuff that could go wrong. - The Apprentice thinks he is Strong enough and challenges his Master. They are equal in Power, one gets killed but the other severely crippled and dies a few weeks later due to his wounds - The Master is very Old. The Apprentice sees his Chance. But the Master is still way stronger and kills his apprentice. But now he is Old and dies before finding or giving all his knowledge to his new Student. - The Master made a miscalculation. His Student chooses the Light side, betrays his Master, and kills him. - Already mentioned in another Post but, the Master finds the Light Side and just stops giving his knowledge to other generations. - In his Pride and Hubris the Master considers himself to Powerful to Ever die, he never takes a an Apprentice and dies in the End as the last Sith - In his Pride and Hubris a Master decides to End the Rule of two and create a Sith Army again.

[@levongevorgyan6789]

@@XaldirGodofGood Darth Millenial could have ended the Rule of Two if he'd just waited long enough. Or had killed Cognus.

[@kazemizu]

Sith: We shall run everything, even the Jedi!! Step 1: We must stop killing ourselves.

[@sebas8225]

Step 2: We must kill all other Sith so only 2 are left. Great Logic

[@dreademperor2094]

@@sebas8225 Step 3: work from the shadows

[@adrianaxelssonpersson2456]

​@@dreademperor2094Step 4: Turn The Chosen One to The Dark Side and make him betray and kill all the jedi.

[@anothergermanmapper7754]

The Rule of Two might be the Best Option, but Sith Armies look Dope AF. The Rule of Two can’t Beat that.

[@AndreNitroX]

Agreed. The same could be said for real life armies instead of just a drone killing the enemies leaders

[@petrabanjarnahor229]

Nah, you don't get it.

[@myspiderungoliant]

One of the lessons from Sun-Tzu’s Art of War: never interrupt your enemy when they’re making a mistake. I’m sure many Jedi took this to heart on the battlefield when their enemy turned on each other CONSTANTLY in a bid for supremacy.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@myspiderungoliant Create the factors that lead to paranoia and fear, and humans do the rest.

[@jjp9262]

@@AndreNitroX *French revolution intensifies*

[@indianajones4321]

Palpatine: Sends Darth Vader to take the Jedi temple with the 501st Malgus: Jedi temple plus ship crashing full of my my guys equals epic lightsaber fight!

[@geetslys]

Those cinematics...

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Say what I will about TOR, those cinematics are legit. I even downloaded them to my YT playlist for animation purposes and such.

[@Warmaker01]

Darth Malgus is also the guy that goes to war against the Sith Empire for his own vision on what it should be. Even to the point on giving the Republic secrets about Sith Empire plans so they could act against and kill Imperials that would have otherwise opposed him. It's funny because even within SWTOR when playing Sith Empire character, you see bouts of regular Imperial military getting tired of "Sith Games." The Sith Empire people wank off to spent as much time killing their own as it did fighting the Republic. So it was natural that the Republic would never fall against these clowns. Meanwhile with the Rule of Two, Darth Sidious without his "own" Sith Empire and army of Force sensitive clowns to follow him, did what the greatest of Sith Lords before could never accomplish: Defeat both the Republic and Jedi Order. The way Sidious did it is particularly interesting. He sowed discord, doubt, instability, even concocted a war of his own design, with throw away armies for both sides that he put together. The instability of the late Republic, the Clone Wars set the stage for Sidious to take over the Republic and destroy the Jedi Order. His predecessors in the Sith Empire were too stupid, too unreliable, too unstable, and too busy to play their little fuck-fuck games to topple the Republic and beat the Jedi. Mind you, there were some extremely powerful Sith in those days, but yet the Republic was never toppled by them. Even better, Sidious did this literally in front of the Jedi Order. He even sat there having pleasant conversations with the powerful Master Yoda, Windu, Obi-Wan, etc. He smiled and talked to them all the time while engineering their destruction, and the takeover of the Republic that they sought to preserve. "It was so artfully done."

[@midgetydeath]

@@Warmaker01 "Meanwhile with the Rule of Two, Darth Sidious without his "own" Sith Empire and army of Force sensitive clowns to follow him" Sidious actually *did* have his own. He took all Force Sensitives strong enough to train and made them into dark side warriors loyal to the Sith. The smart thing was a mix of compartmentalization regarding their organization and the extreme brainwashing to make them loyal to him. "His predecessors in the Sith Empire were too stupid, too unreliable, too unstable, and too busy to play their little fuck-fuck games to topple the Republic and beat the Jedi." You could say that he infected the Republic with the flaws of the Sith Empires. Honestly, from how the Sith approached the Republic and Jedi, I don't think they were trying to win so much as revel in using their power and cause destruction. Basically, Sidious showed what happens when a Sith uses the political scheming mastered by the Sith against the Republic instead of a lightsaber. I still disapprove of the Rule of Two, though. The risk of all the Sith knowledge and culture being held by only two people is waaaay too great a chance to loose to be worth the benefits. And too often the weaker and more ignorant apprentice would find an indirect way to kill the stronger and more knowledgeable master. Damaging the Sith's knowledge and power over time. That said, the Rule of Two had the interesting effect of invoking a deep devotion to the Sith among its members. I assume that's because they see the Grand Plan as building upon their own efforts. A form of immortality and achievement, I suppose.

[@unlimitedpower8960]

@@Warmaker01 Tenebrae alone was a threat to the Galaxy and he was Sith. Only recently in the new SWTOR Expansion everyone gathers to kill him as he fails to take over Satele Shan’s mind and body

[@ChannelHandlePending]

tbf even the rule of 2 was destroyed by an act of betrayal in the end. Just seems like the sith were pretty shit at doing anything not related to just outright destroying everything.

[@goatlover6312]

Well Sidious didn’t actually follow the rule of 2, he failed in his position as master as he never trained Vader for the possibility to replace him. Sidious believed that since he had succeeded in taking control of the galaxy he had surpassed the rule of two and therefore treated Vader as a weapon and not an apprentice, if he had trained Vader as an apprentice it would be likely that Vader would still betray him but at least he wouldn’t turn to the light and the sith would continue. After transferring his consciousness to a cloned body and thought over where he went wrong Palpatine himself admitted that it was his mistake that destroyed the sith.

[@yeetwchybaban]

lol

[@ramondelgado4927]

Tenebrous fail to indoctrinate Plagueis into the Rule of 2 and the ways of the sith , so he never cared for the Sith really and so Sidious didnt care either In a way , Plagueis destroyed the Sith by not following the rules , had he instill the Sith doctrines in Sidious , he would have properly trained an aprentice and the Sith endure

[@stevenle9960]

The sith themselves are an inherently flawed and psychotic ideology that has only survived as long as it did because of the force

[@ItachiUchiha-69]

At one time there where only two true sith in the movies, but we had many sith assassins. In general having just two sith isn’t exactly the best idea. I can support that with facts as well, when darth Vader was turned to the light and palpatine was killed there was no one left to continue sith tradition. it has effectively been destroyed with the killing of a single person. Where as the Jedi lived on through luke, had there been more sith the order could’ve persisted. Many people like to continue to say because the force was more powerful when there was two sith that it is the better option, problem is there’s almost always more than two dark side users at one time. That and the drawbacks like loosing the whole sith order with one death is just too great. Sure the rule of two may have allowed the sith order to “win” but it also destroyed it as well.

[@dorthvoder9375]

I agree

[@joaop4585]

Wtf is your pfp, Itachi???

[@arikutin1032]

The reason the Sith were exterminated in RotJ wasn't because Palpatine adhered to the Rule of Two. It was because he didn't. Post Anakin's crippling, he never expected or wanted Vader to succeed him. He simply wanted an enforcer. Had he actually tried to look, I'm sure he could've found another suitable apprentice somewhere in the galaxy. Someone who could've been trained to match and exceed Vader. But Palpatine became ensured of his own invincibility and immortality, so he never raised up a proper successor. Had he followed Bane's philosophy, he'd probably had been killed by this theoretical apprentice by the time of RotJ, and Luke would never have won.

[@joaop4585]

@@arikutin1032 For real, Palpatine got dumb and just wanted thebgalaxy for himself for eternity and forgot about others force users turning against him...

[@ItachiUchiha-69]

@@joaop4585 artwork I found of Itachi when I was 15, for reference I’m 22 now. It just stuck.

[@nathangardner6423]

All out war tended to result in at best a stalemate so the rule of two which allowed a stealthy attack resulted in victory just like when Darth Revan or Vitiates empires attacked the Republic and brought them to their knees.

[@LucasSousa_66]

yes, a thousand years of planning to achieve a victory that lasted 30 years, truly worth it.....

[@feliciastaldotter5168]

@@LucasSousa_66 id say its better then 1000 years of more wars with jedi and themselves and probavly never even getting near dominating the galaxy

[@AndreNitroX]

The rule of 2 was modern warfare. Sure the sith armies could capture the galaxy through force but they could never keep it. Which is why corrupting the republic and destroying the jedi from the inside is meticulous. The sith would have ruled longer through this way if sidious had not become cocky

[@barbiquearea]

Vitiates Empire actually worked pretty well because he was immortal and was essentially worshiped like a god by the citizens of the Sith Empire. Even the members of the Dark Council feared and revered him enough to not try to overthrow him. And for a while they had no reason to. As the emperor essentially retired from public life after building up the foundations of the empire, and left the day to day running of the empire to his Dark Council. Letting them have free reign to do what they wanted in their particular areas of authority. It was only when they discovered he was planning to kill everyone in the galaxy including themselves that they finally turned on him.

[@CephaloG0D]

The rule of two doesn't mean shit when your weaker apprentice kills you in your sleep. I wonder how much weaker the Sith became when Palpatine killed Plagueis.

[@cadbanesfavoritehat5655]

Well Palps was stronger than Plagueis. I think he just though killing him in his sleep was easier.

[@warwolf3005]

its still thinking small. All it takes to kill a master is to blow up his ship in space by hiring a merc group or sabotage the ship to fail during a jump

[@cadbanesfavoritehat5655]

@@warwolf3005 Yeah, I agree, Palpatine was definitely disrespecting the Rule of Two, even if he never directly broke it.

[@ramondelgado4927]

@@warwolf3005 The master would "see it" coming , in the form of a vision or the general knowledge of knowing the betrayal is coming through his aprentince power growth, because the aprentice would not kill the master until he has stolen/learn all the secrets he can from him The student would not blow up the ship but kill the master personally to ensure its death and not leave any change of survival , also there might be some sort of absorbtion of power or force awakening by personally killing the master

[@aaronkreidl5217]

As was pointed out below it was supposed to be a trial a head on collision of martial skill and wit for the apprentice to truly prove they surpassed the master as Bane intended. It was a solemn ritual to differentiate from that sort of wanton backstabbing common in the sith empire. After all how can you hope to rule a galaxy or defeat the Jedi if you can't even surpass your master?

[@lordinquisitor6651]

A backup plan would be good, otherwise your rule of of two is only a food poisoning / malfunctioning hyperdrive away from extinction ...

[@UnexpectedWonder]

Exactly!

[@midgetydeath]

Good thing they're precognizant and have an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent existence guiding them. Except when the writers forget about that obvious detail.

[@davidevans916]

This needs to be made into a trilogy or at least a Disney plus series.

[@geetslys]

"At least"

[@AndreNitroX]

I’ve always wanted a show about Bane and Zannah starting the plan

[@arikutin1032]

Wtf are you talking about? You want to give Disney a reason to play with the Darth Bane storyline? No way! Too much of a risk! I'm good with the Legends trilogy we already have.

[@davidevans916]

@@arikutin1032 well………. We can have obi wan Filoni in charge just like with the mandalorian 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@sebas8225]

"Star Wars Rule of Two", this could work as a Cartoon actually.

[@AndreNitroX]

It’s modern warfare. The true battles are no longer fought on the battlefield but instead from the shadows. Darth Bane is my favorite sith because he understood that the sith had failed to conquer the galaxy by force. Through the rule of 2 the sith could grow in their powers with the force and politically. Destroying the jedi from the inside out. Even though Bane didn’t accomplish this, he sets this plan in motion, followed by Zannah and all the other sith until sidious.

[@spadesandshades-pc9tx]

But in a sense he did accomplish he just set everything in motion

[@AndreNitroX]

@@spadesandshades-pc9tx True, but if he didn't set up the sith network and teach his apprentice to continue the order, then the sith could never have of stayed dedicated to the order for a 1000 years

[@spadesandshades-pc9tx]

@@AndreNitroX brotha I know that this man kept tabs on every Jedi present

[@darylsdesigns6679]

Two there should be. No more, no less. One to embody the power, the other to crave it.

[@AndreNitroX]

Badass quote

[@ryanhawe8234]

"Where there were two, now there is one -- the Sith Order itself. For I have given it purpose, and what is power without purpose?" -- Darth Krayt.

[@baconboi4482]

It’d be better if there several groups of 2 going around. Cause only having 2 sith and/or Jedi is really dumb. Just practically speaking, the sith almost got destroyed because of the rule of 2 several times over, they lost decades upon decades of teaching and knowledge as well

[@AndreNitroX]

That knowledge was lost far before Darth Bane

[@djcuevas1057]

@@AndreNitroX one of the rule of two sith actively destroyed sith records to the point they lost thousands of years of knowledge.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@djcuevas1057 that didnt help either

[@RandoGrunt]

The problem with the idea of multiple groups is that would form rivalries and the Sith would waste more time trying to kill each other rather than building up their own power.

[@barbiquearea]

@@AndreNitroX Just imagine an outcome where Zanneth instead of killing Bane went into hiding and let Bane groom a new apprentice, while also taking on one of her own. Then there would have been two sith factions abiding by the Rule of Two.

[@AncestorEmpire1]

Yes and No. in the long run, yes. Since the Sith were a main enemy of the Republic and without them to fight, they turned on themselves. No, because once total control was achieved, it made it harder to maintain control.

[@marakalos3838]

Yes! Under Sidious, the Empire was spread thin on the outer rim and a mess overall with Vader darting in a constant conquest for nearly random reasons (be they orders from Sidious or an uprising or potentially a Jedi). After creating the Galactic Empire and crushing the Republic, Sidious should have started forming an army. In Disney Canon (which I hate), we see the Inquisitors. They are pretty wimpy though. Seriously.

[@AncestorEmpire1]

@@marakalos3838 the Disney canon Inquisitors are a pathetic joke. The Emperor’s Hand though is a true Inquisition and strength of power.

[@marakalos3838]

@@AncestorEmpire1 YES

[@AncestorEmpire1]

@@marakalos3838 yeah, I think we spoke in the comment earlier of a different video. When 100% Star Wars out a video named “Star Wars Legends Matter” (I think that was the title)

[@marakalos3838]

@@AncestorEmpire1 i believe so. Good to see ya

[@galaxy-eyesgarchomp9478]

I've got to say, even though the rule of two had its flaws, such as the constant attempts at essence transfer and some of the sith lords being kind of dumb or overly cautious. It was a brilliant idea to conquer the galaxy.

[@AndreNitroX]

Essentially it’s modern warfare for the sith

[@stevenle9960]

Imo the rule of two is just as flawed as previous sith orders because the sith themselves are inherently flawed as an ideology What if a weak apprentice assassinates the master in their sleep? Or defeats them by a stroke of luck What if a sith lord chooses to not take an apprentice? What if the master is killed before the apprentice completes their training? Or what if both of them are killed There are so many conditions in which the sith weaken or die with the rule of two. At least previously there would always be at least a few left over even if there was in fighting. Bane was an antisocial psychopath, that reflects in his ideology Even sideous the most successful sith during the rule of two era was barely following it. He was going with more of a rule of 1.5. He never wanted his apprentices to surpass him, in fact he actively prevented them from doing so. He wanted to rule forever

[@sebas8225]

Thats the problem with Ro2, it´s dependant on the Master respecting the rule.

[@betterlatethannever4529]

It's dependent on both the Master and apprentice. In theory, Bane was 100% correct in his endeavors to the Rule of 2, but in practice, those that followed him weren't.

[@levongevorgyan6789]

I agree for the most part, but an Apprentice that can sneak up on a Master while they are asleep and kill them is a pretty powerful apprentice. Or has a pretty weak master.

[@betterlatethannever4529]

@@levongevorgyan6789 pretty sure Sidious and Plaguous both killed their masters by underhanded means. One drugged him, the other killed the master while he was saving their lives.

[@levongevorgyan6789]

@@betterlatethannever4529 Ah yes, because the Sith definetly value honor and honesty, and frown upon cunning and treachery. Sidious was more cunning and treacherous thenn his master, hence the Sith grew stronger with a mastermind like him in charge leading them to take over the galaxy.

[@Kevc00]

The brotherhood of darkness did drift from the sith teachings of the past, but banes premise of there being a limited amount of dark side in the galaxy was completely false, and even with their different beliefs the brotherhood of darkness would have completely wiped out the Jedi at ruusan had bane helped. Instead he was a symptom of sith infighting, and his system led to a thousand years of preparation to only be defeated by infighting again.

[@dewightalexandersson1372]

The Rule of Two is the best yet worst thing for the sith. It's great because it's difficult to pin exactly who you're looking for but terrible Bec if you're both killed who will replace you

[@lycanbroadcastingnetwork]

I fundamentally disagree as Sidious was eventually overthrown by his apprentice as well except at that point Vader had turned to the light. It is far better to have more than two

[@closednick101]

Sith couldn't decide on takeout without murdering each other, so the rule of two makes sense on that principle alone.

[@marshalllatta2073]

Ones more The sith will rule the galaxy

[@darylsdesigns6679]

And we shall have peace

[@lowqualitytrash7034]

@@darylsdesigns6679 *threes

[@tylergranger2159]

@@darylsdesigns6679 Peace is a lie, there is only Passion!

[@darylsdesigns6679]

@@tylergranger2159 through passion, I gain strength

[@tylergranger2159]

@@darylsdesigns6679 Through Strength, I gain Power!

[@Petaurista13]

"Absolute genius" Sith Lord being killed by weak apprentice: whole Sith failure Apprentice killing Sith Lord and slipping on soap b4 training own: whole Sith failure

[@KhukuriGod]

*Another failure scenario:* The apprentice challenges/schemes to kill the master but the master emerges victorious. Alas, he's too old now and there's not enough time to fully train a new apprentice who can surpass him.

[@danshakuimo]

@@KhukuriGod How long can sith even live though? I know they can extend their life with dark side powers, but are they basically immortal?

[@diacrethii.9221]

@@danshakuimo It´s actually part of the Bane-Trilogy. Bane tries to find a way to be immortal, so he can`t die simply of age, as his apprentice Zannah was waiting to long to challenge him and he wanted to be able to take a new apprentice. So no, Bane and the other Sith weren´t immortal, but he and others certainly tried. If i remember correctly, there existed even a holocron, created by another Sith, which tought such an ability, and Bane hoped to find it.

[@DominusDionysos]

​@@danshakuimo Dont believe any sith or jedi has achieved true immortality but it's possible. One can achieve immortality by becoming a Force Ghost or attaching your soul to an object or place but it's not true immortality.

[@KhukuriGod]

@@diacrethii.9221 It was Darth Andeddu's holocron that Bane took from the planet of Prakith. It held the secrets of Essence Transfer. Meanwhile, Darth Zannah was looking for potential apprentices herself and came across some ex-Jedi fuckboi who had turned to the Dark Side. Forgot his name, but Zannah thought he had potential. Unfortunately (or fortunately) for Zannah, the Dark Jedi was just a wannabe-Chad fuckboi whose only interests were a luxurious life, an endless rotation of chicks to smash, and collecting Dark Side artifacts. He had no interest in the treacherous power struggles of the Sith. The only thing he wanted from Zannah was to pound her raw and then bail out if she got pregnant. Somehow, by the end of the Bane trilogy, the fuckboi ended up stealing Andeddu's holocron when Bane was captured by the daughter of one of his victims. Poor holocron ended up in fuckboi's dildo collection. By that time, however, Bane had already mastered the technique so it was no personal loss for him (or the Sith, since the technique seems to have been passed down for centuries until Darth Gravid turned to the light side and destroyed half of the Sith's ancient artifacts and holocrons). And if I'm not mistaken, a thousand years after Bane, the holocron somehow ended up in the hands of Count Dooku.

[@MRDLT00]

6:38 There was never, ever any proof to this. Bane was just blowing smoke up his own ass. XD

[@HitchcockJohn]

The part that stands out to me is if the whole idea of being a Sith is to maximize your power and be the strongest you can possibly be… then why take an apprentice in the first place? Why train someone who will learn your secrets and your weaknesses, and who will inevitably betray you? Why set in motion your own downfall? Doesn’t that seem a bit counter-intuitive?

[@achinthmurali5207]

Because a master without an apprentice is a master of nothing.

[@veryangryduckpl2122]

Because you can either do that or... Wait a second something in my modded CK2 is happening... AH SHIT MY SITH IS STRESSED AND OVERWORKED.

[@HitchcockJohn]

@@achinthmurali5207 The Rise of Skywalker seemed to hint at a possible answer, or at least one idea of an answer. I suspect that different Sith may have had different interpretations of the rule and why it is implemented at different times. The resurrected Emperor Palpatine seemed to believe there was some sort of spiritual ascension that happens when the master is struck down by the apprentice. If this is the case, than it may have roots in their religious beliefs. It would also explain his actions in Return of the Jedi. During his big confrontation with Luke Skywalker Palpatine tries to goad Luke into killing him. It's meant to be a way of luring him to the dark side, by tricking him into embracing his anger while thinking he is doing good. But why take the risk? Palpatine did seem to be quite fond of corrupting others but why take the risk of actually being killed by Luke? According to The Rise of Skywalker, it might be because of Sith beliefs, which see the master being struck down in an act of anger as some sort of completion. On the other hand, in Knights of the Old Republic we get a slightly simpler interpretation. Sith ideology is heavily rooted in social darwinism, the idea that the strongest dominate the weak. From what Bastilla described during her time on the dark side, it's a way of ensuring the strongest rulers are in charge. After all if someone is strong enough to overthrow the leading Sith Lord than they are clearly stronger and therefore deserve the position more. One thing I'm also curious about, we always hear about the apprentice killing their master, but does it always succeed. Has there ever been an instance in which an apprentice tried to kill their master only to be thwarted? I can't help wondering if there was ever a Sith lord who went through several apprentices who kept dying when they tried to turn on their master. I've wondered if it might be that taking on an apprentice is sort of a test for the master that requires them to face an opponent of equal footing, to determine if they should keep the title of master. If they are slain by the apprentice, the test is failed. If they are able to prevent their assassination, they pass and may keep going.

[@treiwilson9445]

I honestly don't think Bane or any rule of two sith really understood why Revan chose the dark side according to legends.

[@zelithfang2365]

You'd think that having an army Darksiders to combat the Jedi would be the best way to defeat the Jedi, but ask yourself this. If that's the case why haven't they won yet? It comes down to one thing, Sith killing Sith, weakening themselves from the inside. All the Jedi gotta do is roll up on the Sith at their most vulnerable and take em out. With only two Sith it limits that infighting

[@jakealter5504]

It really only works when the sith leadership are so powerful that the lesser sith have little to no chance

[@AndreNitroX]

Exactly. Rule of 2 is also modern warfare. Why send armies when you can send a drone

[@alejandromaldonado6159]

@@jakealter5504 But then all the lesser sith needs to do is either work with the Jedi to kill them, sabotage and blow up their ship, poison them, blow up the planet they're on, suicide bomb them. If the lesser Sith really want to be on top then they would fanatically do whatever it takes to bring down the stronger Sith

[@Tipa_B]

Considering the sith were around for thousands of years, it's not too weird to have civil wars and periods of rise and decline. The rule of two limits the sith more than it helps them imo as you've narrowed it down too much. I also disagree with the sith just becoming more powerful because the apprentice would need to be more powerful to beat the master. As we saw with Palpatine, he killed Darth Plagueis in his sleep. The sith never really made much more headway under the rule of two compared to their old ways, at least nothing that would last. Before the rule of two, they had their Empire. It might've been in periods of rise and decline, but they had it. After the rule of two, they were just gone. No more Empire, until Palpatine managed to build it up again. And even then it collapsed pretty damn quickly and now you've got no Empire and no strong sith. Back to square one. More sith means they can influence more places at once too since they can spread out. The struggle between the Empire and the Republic is what kept the balance and with no Empire, there was no balance. That's what I think at least.

[@levongevorgyan6789]

With the older Empires, you had loyalists, and idealogues who parrotted your beliefs. The Sith Empire was a civilization. A race of beings who would fight for their Sith Masters because they were all one people and one culture. Revan's Empire was built on the awe and respect he earned during the war. People flocked to the banner of the hero who defeated the Mandalorians. But Palpatine? Only his inner circle of goons were truly loyal. His generals and admirals immediately began carving up the Empire for themselves.

[@barbiquearea]

@@levongevorgyan6789 Plus those generals and admirals were mostly non force sensitive military officers rather than Sith lords in their own right.

[@nathanthom8176]

Disagree on a few points: the fact that there were always survivers of the Sith Empires etc to continue is exactly the same as the rule of two. If you manage to get both the Sith Master and the Sith Apprentice together and destroy them, then the Sith are dead, at least untill another Jedi turns and decides to name himself as such. The darkside is not a limited pool and increases with the darkness within the universe, that is why prophecies regard g balance are a thing (its like the PH level of water). The only substantive positive of the rule of two is that it does foster increased strength and skill in the darkside over a prolonged time.

[@CorpusCrispy]

My concern with this plan is two is a very small number in a hostile universe. The Sith would be just one starship crash away from extinction if they were hanging out at the time.

[@arikutin1032]

Well, Bane survived a starship crash. So you're wrong.

[@CorpusCrispy]

@@arikutin1032 hopefully you get what I mean. Over the course of thousands of years. The odds of a master an apprentice getting killed together would be high all things considered

[@luciencartervo5356]

@@arikutin1032 “this one specific powerful sith didn’t die so lmao your wrong” literal tard moment

[@Maine03]

@@CorpusCrispyAs seen in the Plaguies and Darth Bane novels the dith master and apprentice rarely traveled together in the same ship

[@ilsgrade8357]

The thing is, the sith changed from a warrior cult into a secret cukt of puppet masters. The early sith pursued power in combat, while the new sith mostly pursued political power. They turned from fierce warrios to corrup power hungry politicians.

[@chrisnichols9014]

They became smarter than The Jedi and that's how Palpatine wiped most of them out.

[@ragnarshadow]

I agree, and a politician has nothing to do with force powers, they basically neutered them selves.

[@justjoking5841]

I guess you can look at it like a Warrior vs Mage dynamic.

[@foxtrot-gamesandwit4475]

@@ragnarshadow and yet they won, they adapted to what they needed in their situation and that is what let them destroy the Jedi and conquer the Republic, the Rule of Two was a categorical success

[@ryandunham1047]

I mean, I get what you’re saying. I really. (Heck, I see flaws in both systems, but I feel the real problem is their ideology, but that’s whole different can of worms I’d rather not get into.) But at the same time, “power” is a relatively subjective term. What kind of power are you talking about? What’s the context? Heck, from a Sith’s point of view, power in the Force also roughly translates to political power and gravitas. Especially if you look at the Sith Empires: The most powerful of Sith were placed at the top pecking orders of both the Sith Order, and the Sith Empire as a whole.

[@shiroamakusa8075]

When there was many Sith, they ruled for centuries. Rule of two, took thousands of years to get one guy into power and that guy's rule ended after twenty years. Yeah, not seeing the "genius" here.

[@kiddtaak]

EXACTLY!!!

[@sambeck2510]

Inconvenient point - ignored.

[@achinthmurali5207]

Except the Sith still betrayed each other. So ruling for centuries as Sith but not as individuals.

[@veryangryduckpl2122]

Correction: When there was many Sith, you ruled 5 seconds and get backstabbed.

[@Atzells]

The Wisest comment under this video , like the guy said when they were empire they ruled for centuries , the rule of two somewhat failed , nice try for a video anyway

[@Kazaam818]

I think the rule of two is a huge flaw of the sith tbh for the very reason if you kill the two living sith, the current sith order dies

[@rivenoak]

it might have been enough to just kill one of them. if you remove the master, then the apprentice is left halfway educated. if you stab the apprentice it may be to late to train another one.

[@watsolloko_7763]

@@rivenoak an isolated explosion that kills both is still an isolated explosion that kills both..

[@dinodude6992]

@Watsolloko _ like an unaccounted super nova goes off and both sith are in the same solar system as it goes off, bye bye sith

[@antwan1357]

Basically the rule of two looks more like a trade apprenticeship one master carpenter one apprentice. Kinda like old guild trades. Stonemason and stonemason apprentice. Mostly because some would give in to infighting in trying to outcompete the other while learning trade secrets.

[@mrfrog3876]

Taking the stealth approach without making it so you can only have 2 Sith at once would have been the optimal idea, as it was the rule of two really did nothing for the Sith that they could not have accomplished without its limitations... and even when the Sith actually won with its limitations they clearly had no problem skirting around with it given Sith Assassins.

[@channelofmojos2779]

I always liked the whole “One Sith” from late EU canon. One of my favorite scenes from one of the EU novels where a character happens across the One Sith about 100 years before they made themselves known to the galaxy. She asked who they were and THEY replied that they are the One Sith. It ready like Hot Fuzz with “The greater good”.

[@codydecoster9131]

Just want to say the rule of 2 "ruled" 21 years and do I really need to point out how long the other Sith empires lasted.

[@sebas8225]

Rule of One always beats Rule of Two, the most remarkable thing Rule of Two did, was tricking the Jedi into thinking the Sith extinct and making them weaker, but as we´ve seen, it was a pointless endeavour.

[@codydecoster9131]

@@sebas8225 I haven't read any of the One Sith books I would love a suggestion cause they have always sounded cool.

[@cheeher3212]

Jedi and Sith are an Yin Yang, no matter how much progress one side gets to whipping out the other, it can never be done.

[@shneizeldream6444]

I thought the rule of two was put because Darth Bane heard of the Jedi belief about their chosen one. One who would bring Balance into the force. If there are only two Sith and tons of Jedi then it is unbalanced. That's why I thought he put the Rule of Two.

[@AndreNitroX]

2 sith are the ones that unbalance the force. All of the dark side is concentrated into those 2 making them more powerful than a 1000 jedi

[@arikutin1032]

Well, as George Lucas explained it, the existence of any Sith disrupted the balance. The Dark Side itself is chaos, disorder, unbalance. To balance the force meant to destroy the users of the Dark Side.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@arikutin1032 yes thats right

[@AndreNitroX]

@Fotachi george constantin not on the battlefield, but in power scale. 2 sith cause the balance of the force to tip in their favor, despite there being a 1000 jedi. the dark side is that powerful. But it is self destructive.

[@sunixjester]

I would like to see a Darth Bane video. I would also like to see a Darth Bane movie, when Kennedy and Johnson aren’t ruining the franchise.

[@AndreNitroX]

Agreed, when someone competent come along I want a Darth Bane and Zannah tv series

[@sebas8225]

They should just do something similar to MArvel´s "What If" and introduce a series called: "Star Wars: Rule of Two" showcasing different sith masters and apprentices from the rule showcasing how it´s properly implemented (with Bane was a narrator ofc) and how it´s badly implemented and how the consequences are for that.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@sebas8225 i love the idea of a rule of 2 show, displaying how the rule works until the modern sith decide they dont need it to achieve victory.

[@zexalbrony4799]

The Rule of 2 worked well enough, but it still had its own fair share of problems; one of them being if both Sith died, no one would be around to continue the linage. Another one is that Bane assumed everyone would follow the rule completely, thus apprentices would challenge their Masters to one on one combat and only surpass them when they were strong enough, but in the last 100 years or so of the plan, we had Sith using cheap shots and cowardly tactics to overthrow their Masters because they weren't strong enough to win one on one. For example, Plagus caused a rockslide to hit Tenibrush when he wasn't looking to get the kill, Palpatine waited until Plagus was drunk and asleep before attacking, Dooku took on secret apprentices to help him beat Palpatine, and Vader planned to have Luke help him beat Palpatine.

[@goodmind4940]

it's okay to take apprentices to help kill the master, it still keeps rule of two intact

[@zexalbrony4799]

@@goodmind4940 Yeah, but it makes the Sith weaker since the apprentices won't be as strong as the master when they become a master because they had help to beat the master, thus the Sith get weaker, which was what Bane was trying to prevent.

[@luciencartervo5356]

@@zexalbrony4799 oh shit, zex I feel as if I recognize you.

[@sebas8225]

@@zexalbrony4799 In Sidious case it was deserved however, since Sidious had deliberately disregarded the Ro2 anyway by not teaching the advanced sith Force powers to Vader and make him scavenge Sith Artifacts by himself on top of having him monitored. But yes, it´s a problem

[@Franz_503]

Excellent video! I never understood the "why" behind the Rule of 2 until now. Thanks!

[@kylescoolclips]

8:59 no, Revan was betrayed by his apprentice Malak. He wasn't a Sith anymore when he came back to face Malak again

[@mauriciomartell2433]

This makes sense with the prophecy. Only a Sith would break the endless cycle. Or rather, the only flaw would be a Double K.O.

[@sebwisegamgee4215]

"They became the... very thing they hated." Come ooooon, you know what you wanted to say. xD

[@Groundrunner100]

When you realize Sith have better math skills than Jedi.

[@Kir927]

Sith Triumvirate had it right. They attacked from the shadows and manipulated the war without much direct involvement and used force echoes. They used the subterfuge of the rule of two while having a Sith army and in the end they only lost because they betrayed Traya or at least didn't finish her off.

[@unclelarryhasasmalldick8150]

Traya was never interested in the Jedi or Sith she wanted to destroy the force and tried using the Triumvirate to do it before Meetra.

[@AndreNitroX]

Agreed those 3 almost succeeded but as is the nature of the sith they betrayed each other.

[@treiwilson9445]

I kinda like The Brotherhood of Darkness or even Darth Revan's Sith Empire. Revan's story to the dark side is interesting to me. Wish knights of the old republic 3 went as planned. Your video's on it were very good.

[@choppinwoodz5120]

There is also more on that on top of what you mentioned. It was also that when there were only 2 sith that the whole potential and the force itself was concentrated on the amount of users of that side. So the less sith there were, the more powerful they would be.

[@Mgauge]

Basically, the Sith are so traitorous that the only way they can focus enough to get anything done is if they are in a position where the only other member around is the one they can’t afford to immediately backstab.

[@sebas8225]

But that leads to the master having too much power, even for a sithlord, there´s no way the average master would let him/herself be killed off by their apprentice they´d have to be selfless about the teaching to the apprentice and the protection of their well being til they can take them out, this is contrary to Sith Nature and eventually those with imperial dispositions like Sidious and Krayt will come along and desire a army of sith under them.

[@Whoopu2]

Rule of Two era Sith did what the ancient Sith Empires tried and failed to do repeatedly: destroy the Jedi Order, destroy the Republic, and conquer the entire galaxy. Any fan who questions the Rule of Two is simply overlooking the facts.

[@TechnoCheezit]

Rule of two was only stupid in my mind because the apprentice is supposed to kill the master, but what if they killed each other during a confrontation? I mean, people die from wounds after combat all the time. That happens and boom sith gone.

[@kamishin7135]

I'm going to respectually disagree. Yes, they can better survive and better hide themself and they can take the jedi by suprised, but the dilution is probably wrong. The average sith after Bane is stronger than those before, but only because they are trained better. I do not think that darth Sidious is for example stronger than darth Nihilus. And the Sith after Bane are more chained by the rule in my opinion, at least for the appreantice who is just a slave until he kills the master. The sith order also just survived because they kept themself hidden with no one expecting them. A known order of the rule of two would not survived for very long. But I would agree that the Sith order had to reform themself to be an order with stability

[@AndreNitroX]

Agreed. Banes plan was to stay in hiding but also manipulate everything from the shadows. The sith were never meant to resurface they were meant to become the shadows themselves.

[@AndreNitroX]

@Fotachi george constantin that doesnt mean you cant raise armies of soldiers and assasins. its like having a king and queen rule from the shadows while letting their minions do the grunt work.

[@decepticonxhunter4850]

Bane falsely assumed that the Dark Side was like a piece of bread where a person could have more if they split it in half with 1 other individual instead of having to break it into smaller pieces to satisfy 20 other ppl. Bane was just as much of a fool as Kaan, but for different reasons. His "genius" is really overrated when a person notices all the problems with his worldview.

[@themc.kennyshow6585]

Darth Bane was like Eren YEAGER - the only ones who had the power to break their dreaded cycle 😔

[@justinblechinger6723]

It helps add at how powerful they are. Two fighting together against the numbers. It also allows them to wield the dark side much stronger. Just in total it feels kinda cool that these 2 are trying to win it all.

[@hendrikmoons8218]

In my opinion, for a Galaxy wide rule, utter stupidity.

[@thisnameisfake5657]

Bane is still one of my personal favourite Sith, his novel series just so good and as a character he's fascinating. His and zanah's back and forth is just so well crafted imo

[@NutsfromBerk14]

Even just two is problematic

[@geetslys]

It's in their nature.

[@AndreNitroX]

It is their nature to betray each other, atleast with the rule of 2 you see it coming and whoever wins keep the lineage going strong

[@DM__55]

I remember reading all the Darth Bane books as a kid, I wish Disney would make a movie or show on him. Please do more!

[@f.o.n.1244]

If only they could actually follow the part of letting their student become more powerful than them.

[@kadindarklord]

I think the Sith of the SWTOR Era are the exception to Rule of Two's issue with multiple Sith. They weren't perfect, but they were the better choice for their time.

[@rivenoak]

still a lot of infighting.

[@kazemizu]

The Jedi had their Counsel, the Sith had their Lords.

[@johndrum9444]

I can't believe so many fans can't see the value of the rule of two. It makes so much more sense than an empire of sith when you think about it. I really appreciate your thoroughness in your videos and would love one on Darth Bane.

[@johndrum9444]

@Fotachi george constantin how does acknowledging the logic of Dath Bane's rule of two equate to a dogmatic belief in Jedi are the only "good guys" and sith are the only "bad guys"? Obviously there are none-force-sensatives that progressed both (i.e. Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, Admiral Ackbar, etc. and Hutts, both noted Fetts...or pretty much any bounty hunter, Moff Tarkin, etc.), though there are those who narrowly focus on the Jedi vs. Sith fight. How that connects to the rule of two is escaping me.

[@fduranthesee]

I’d say, “no,” because then, you’d have a bunch of fake Sith running around, and that dilutes the Order (if you could even call it that)

[@johnbaldwin8340]

Its funny cause when you meet someone you think they are your match in every game event or whatever. Then you both are Good and evil Both sides of the coin. You both were absolutely meant for each other. Cause really you are probably the reason they keep going. In all thing considered. Its a hellva thing to encounter

[@Spartan3D213]

So would've been better if the Rule of 2 Sith were in power but any force user they had were kept as inquisitor or imperial knights without requiring any one forced into the darkside?

[@blazingshadow2669]

being a sith is more than jedi + darkside. they had a whole doctrine and techniques to maximize the dark side of the force

[@leiferikson850]

Darth Bane himself even recommended getting force users under your control. But as tools that get discarded once they overstay their welcome or get too powerful.

[@Spartan3D213]

@@blazingshadow2669 light-sith, chose light side but still loyal to sith order, plus no real danger to the darkside sith lords.

[@airborngaming2250]

The rule of two only functions with the aid of plot armor.

[@breaden4381]

It’s pretty surprising that it took until Sidious and Vader for the master and apprentice to kill each other and end the line. But somehow, Sidious returned.

[@Fi_Sci_]

Sidious somehow returned in Legends too. Don’t downplay that storytelling decision in the Sequels when the EU had a storyline just as bad.

[@goodmind4940]

@@Fi_Sci_ it's worse because they already know Dark Empire's reception and Chosen One prophecy didn't exist when EU did it

[@Fi_Sci_]

@@goodmind4940 having young Palpatine clones in the EU was a ridiculous idea. TROS handled it far better having a broken down clone with a fraction of Palpatines power. The emperor was dead, And all we saw in TROS was an empty husk being kept alive through external machinery.

[@breaden4381]

@@Fi_Sci_ I can criticize both. Palpatine himself in like better in canon, but his hidden fleet and cult just doesn't make sense with the OT. The "I am all the Sith" stuff is stupid too. The power of the Sith through the generations comes from the apprentice becoming more powerful than the master, not something like the Avatar state. Regardless, returning Palpatine seems like both times it was done simply to continue a dangerous Sith lineage to create a situation rather than something that might arise naturally in universe. It's good that we are seeing even more of Sidious' cloning efforts, but we should have gotten more with essence transfer. It's completely in his character to try and cheat death like his master, but it still feels cheap.

[@Fi_Sci_]

@@breaden4381 You know how arrogant the Sith are right, of course Palpatine with all his power seemingly returned would make a ballsy claim that he was “All the Sith.”

[@lowl123]

The rule of two only works when the master accepts it. When you have a dark lord like sidious, the rule of two go out the window. Because sidious did everything he could to hinder his apprentices abilities. He rarely taught them an he never really wanted to be overthrown.

[@rivenoak]

yep the rule of 2 was weird in its consequece. you might stab your master, but then you have to train your very own killer.

[@HouseOfAlastrian]

The Rule of Two definitely improved the chances of survival of the Sith as a whole. It also made it possible for them to finally take over the galaxy. But it fell apart when it came time to actually rule the galaxy. While the Master grew ever more reclusive in his obsessive pursuit of immortality and greater power from the Dark Side and the Apprentice flew across the galaxy playing whack-a-mole with every remaining Jedi to be found and with minor uprisings that acted as a prelude to the inevitable rebellion, the machinery of Imperial governance made a royal mess of trying to govern... and, as Leia said to Vader, the tighter the grip, the more systems will slip through their fingers. I can't help but think the best chance the Sith had of ruling the galaxy in the long term would be to remain in the shadows... remain invisible... be the power BEHIND the throne as opposed to being a wide open target ON the throne. The way that Darth Bane rebuilt the Sith doesn't exactly lend itself to being in the open as Palpatine and Vader were. In fact, in ruling from the shadows, there wasn't even any need to reorganize the Republic into the Empire. Simply assert influence over whoever became Supreme Chancellor after Palpatine and enough Senators to keep the agenda going. I mean when you still have what looks on the surface like a functional democracy, as opposed to a brutal totalitarian regime, whoever rebels will have a harder time inspiring new supporters to join the cause.

[@arikutin1032]

The way you described it, the failing wasn't in the Rule of Two itself, as you explained a viable way for the Sith to maintain control, but in Palpatine, whose lust for direct power overrode his critical thinking. Did I get that right?

[@TheJadedJames]

Yeah, imagine if Palpatine weren’t actually Supreme Chancellor/Emperor, but an unknown figure pulling the Empire’s strings. What if Order 66 went down, and the surviving Jedi were being hunted down and STILL didn’t know who the Sith responsible for the Clone Wars were. Kenobi and Yoda would be training in hiding, but have no clue who to target.

[@arikutin1032]

@@TheJadedJames that's a very thoughtful point. It would take Dooku's "What if I told you the Republic was under the control of the Dark Lord of the Sith" line to a whole other level of nuance. It wouldn't be as obvious as the Chancellor being that Sith Lord, and the Jedi would be half-convinced Dooku was just trying to make them paranoid. That would've been great!

[@HouseOfAlastrian]

@@arikutin1032 yeah. The short of it is that the Rule of Two does not lend itself to being an effective ruling ideology because it was conceived in the shadows for the purpose of surviving in the shadows. So yeah, the only way it could truly work after the Sith take over the galaxy is for the Sith to rule from the shadows.

[@Gr3nadgr3gory]

How did they fail to govern? As I remember the Empire was actually well liked in many systems.

[@Beregorn88]

In the ideal of the sith creed there should be only ONE sith lord, owning all the power and depending on no one else; two is the closest to one that also allows the survival of the order.

[@AndreNitroX]

Yes, if one sith managed to achieve immortality then there would be no need for a heir. But only 2 sith allows the order to grow stronger with every new generation replacing the old.

[@goldeagle6431]

The Senate was worth a million Sith.

[@AndreNitroX]

Exactly 2 sith were more powerful than a 1000 jedi

[@RaginCanadian-gx2zl]

For a massive army or organization of sith to exist the leader needs to be one of a kind commanding complete loyalty. Few sith are capable.

[@shadeofshattered3]

The rule of two explained how to gain power but not keep it

[@zacksmith2227]

That was masterful perhaps the best video I've seen on the rule of 2 and history of the sith.insightful ,deep and beautiful. highly recommend. a must watch for any real star wars fan.

[@Karlos1234ify]

Would you rather have 1 too many backstabbers? Or 1 where you can see coming?

[@elijahbutcher9522]

Definitely 1 where I can see coming

[@decepticonxhunter4850]

That depends on what you mean by "see it coming". By the time Plagueis actually suspected that Palpatine would turn on him, he was as good as dead. He never saw it coming, and he only had the 1 apprentice.

[@davidk2023]

Vitiate's sith order had thousands of lords and hundreds of darths and it was able to successfully defeat the republic. But then valkorion decided to force a peace treaty because he became busy changing diapers.

[@cathrsys9584]

Ikr. Smells like plot. He could have wiped the floor with the republic, consumed half the galaxy then go back to Zakuul 10 times more powerful. But that would mean the sith would win and they can't do that.

[@BofaDee33]

Darth Bane was most definitely a G. But, my main man Tulak Horde would've beat his ass and gave him his 2 arms one at a time.

[@jakealter5504]

That depends on which version of bane he is fighting. Tulak would probably beat PoD bane and possibly DoE bane but I don’t think that tulak would be able to beat orbalisk bane

[@arikutin1032]

Well, yeah. Even at the end of his trilogy, Bane acknowledged he wasn't at the level of the apex Sith of the past. But that's the genius of the Rule of Two. Each generation would bring a stronger master by design. A stronger master to raise a stronger apprentice, who would kill the master and take control themselves and become the master. Becoming as strong as those ancient Sith was not only possible, but inevitable.

[@BofaDee33]

@@arikutin1032 oh for sure at the core if followed the way it was supposed to be the rule of 2 was great. It meant a lack of fear of training and passing on all the secrets learned to progressive generations. Eventually leading to a sith lord who was stronger then the last generation etc. However you get cases like Sidious who by all known metrics is the strongest sith lord who has ever lived. However he killed his master in his sleep instead of challenging him to a duel the way he was supposed to do by the rule of 2. Fortunately he was as previously stated the strongest sith who had ever lived but, if he for some reason hadn't been then it would've been a regression and shows the flaws in the practice of the rule of 2 not the theory. Later on he also violates the rule of 2 by hoarding his knowledge with no intention to pass along all his secrets to the next generation. He was focused more on transitioning to the rule of 1. The fundamental flaw in the rule of 2 is that the people who practice it by nature are selfish, jealous, power hungry people. Who are interested more in domination and power far more then teaching and sharing. By the letter of the law the rule of 2 without a doubt genius and much needed to progress and ensure sith survival. It just eventually was going to run into the major flaw of the nature of of the sith.

[@arikutin1032]

@@BofaDee33 true enough. After all, rules only matter if the people they apply to actually follow them.

[@shadowwinsoviann3245]

Loved this vm ❤️thx sooo much ✌️

[@robinbennett1686]

Good to see you understand it. Some don't

[@AndreNitroX]

Exactly so many people hate on the rule of two since it reduces the number of sith, when essentially it is modern warfare compared to the old ways

[@michaelandreipalon359]

9:58: That RotS novelization quote rings true, but if there's one thing it also implies, there will also never be shadow without light, and vice versa.

[@DarkApostleNoek]

Nope rule of 2 is still stupid. Is upset that the Sith are turning on each other, so he makes an order the revolves around a Master waiting for an Apprentice to strike them, while the Apprentice plans on killing the master. As well Bane is also angry when Sith work together. Brotherhood of Darkness goes to find which almost all Sith like by being the same, Bane doesn't like that by saying it is restrictive. Makes an Order that only allows 2. The closest thing this has to any form of sense is the stronger will win... except if you know some outside force kills one or even both of them. If it is the latter, well nice knowing ya Sith if only you had any sense.

[@elijah-e4n]

I honestly take a army of sith over two bc it took them thousands of years just to finally rule the galaxy for around 30 years

[@stargateMimhi]

I dunno, I think the Sith survived as much because the rule of two let them hide like cowards as because it made individual Sith stronger.

[@connorbestbarlow1043]

If those two sith are discovered and killed then that’s it the grand plans grinds to a halt

[@leiferikson850]

I think hiding like cowards is the wrong idea. They avoided the Jedi but went into the offensive when it came to forming underground gangs and connections. Like crimelords.

[@stargateMimhi]

@@leiferikson850 Hiding from the Jedi was just good strategy. But they were cowards hiding from their own if you ask me. Afraid of the idea that their order could be anything but imperfect, and of needing to be actual leaders in order to be powerful.

[@rainofkhandaq6678]

Rule of Two is really only good for a one time strike, or a few years of surprise tactics. Eventually it's just a weak approach to the situation

[@selwrynn6702]

The sith got reallly lucky with the rule of 2. Having only 2 Sith in an entire Galaxy means that a couple random accidents could see their order erased from existence. Ship crashes during travel, random acts of terrorism, sure they likely can’t be killed by random acts of violence like a mugger but if they are in space it’s much harder to ensure your safety.

[@kostyabenson4308]

There are good arguments for both but if you think about it, the living dark side anomaly that was Palpatine was able to come into being through 1000 years of the dark side being “distilled” between two people at any time, which is why Bane’s plan succeeded

[@meyatetana2973]

You're wrong, two sith is a dumb idea. Army of Sith is better due to chaos it'll create.

[@leiferikson850]

The rule never said they have to be 2 in total regarding their forces. Hired soldiers, killers and gangsters are totally fine.

[@AndreNitroX]

Sith are like the kings, they hold all the power but can still rule over armies and manipulate everything

[@charlinethom1624]

The Siths still have underlings who serve under them such as Ventress and whatnot the Sith are simply the overlords so to speak.

[@AndreNitroX]

@@charlinethom1624 in the Darth Bane novels, he clearly explains that the 2 of them will manipulate everything by controlling vast networks of spy's, politicians, assassins', soldiers and even other dark side users.

[@BagelBoi4000]

Ok but if you're a sith why take an apprentice? They're just a guarentee that eventually you'll be cut down. Just "be free" and dont care if the sith survive longer than you do.

[@emanate0]

the rule of two is dumb. when those two sith die, their legacy is screwed.

[@daviddiab7551]

I agree

[@baryony]

Rule of two is unnecessarily risky. What if the apprentice and master kill each other? What if the apprentice kills the master and switch to the Light Side? What if an accident kills both? Smaller populations always risk a higher probability of extinction. We could design much better systems for the Sith to thrive just by studying hyper-agressive species in nature, which were unfortunately not explored in the Star Wars Universe.

[@RossIsFine]

Why would the jedi follow a sith rule!? Doesn't that make them Sith????

[@MrMasterDebate]

How does every single potential sith just understand “oh… there is a couple already….guess I can’t jump into the dark side”.

[@someperson9998]

Well that's obviously not what happened. First of all, dark side does NOT mean sith. The sith is a religion. Users of the dark side like Maul were not sith, they were just dark side users.

[@drewnayr1188]

The sith are not the only dark side practitioners in the galaxy, nor were they the first. Any force sensitive without training is just ignorant of how the force works at all.

[@SherlockHolmes000]

The rule of two was entirely idiotic and unnecessary. You are not guaranteeing a 'stronger lineage', you are actually creating the exact opposite. There is a reason why when you are attempting to find the greatest athletes you cast your net wide. More Sith means more potential techniques discovered as each one vies for power. As far as the effectiveness shown in lore, Sidious' attempt at exterminating the Jedi went worse than the Sith Triumvirate in the dark wars. The concept of the rule of two is anti-logic. Sidious is an old man and Vader is barely human. Sidious dies of natural causes and then what is left? Vader knows almost nothing of Sidious' techniques or even much about the Sith. How is that ensuring that the Sith stay strong?

[@sebas8225]

It´s not, and it´s also no longer Ro2 in the moment Sidious Nails immortality, teaching Vader anything else or giving him good cybernetics becomes pointless, it´s straight up Rule of One, that Krayt mentioned where the Master requires the selflessness of the apprentices to allow him/her to rule with no issues.

[@dareka9425]

Then Darth Sidious's plan was thwarted by a young Jedi(taught by two exiled Jedi masters) and his Force-sensitive sister. Ultimately, the Dark Lord of the Sith betrayed by his own apprentice.