Golden Saints & Dark Seducers - The Ladies of the Shivering Isles | The Elder Scrolls Podcast #15

[@benjima100]

the idea of the hist's sap being like the daerda plasm, and the idea that mundus is Lorkan's realm of oblivion, combined it could be looked at like the Argonians are the lesser daedra of Mundus, just think about how adaptive they are, and how when an aeylied did autopsies on argonians he couldn't figure out how they were alive. when an argonain dies it's soul goes back to the hist, that could be like how when a daedra dies it's being goes back to what it was before being a corporial daedra.

[@ZorroLocoStudios]

Yeah, the implications on the Hist are super cool, especially considering they have apparently been there since before Nirn was made.

[@scott96999]

I was gonna give this a thumbs up but you're on 69 likes so...

[@GlitchedMuse]

The wood elves could also be another form of Daedra when you think about it. According to their lore, Y'ffre formed them from formless ooze that is basically the embodiment of Chaos. Granted, them returning to the ooze is less of what will happen enevitably like with Argonians and the Hist. And it's more of a threat. If a Bosmer were to ever break The Green Pact, they return to the Shapless ooze after death. Whereas, if they do not, their souls are sent to Atherius, to be reunited with their Aedric ancestors.

[@norrinradd6746]

6:10 I think that one thing that tends to get missed when considering the personalities of the Mazken and the Auriel is how they actually fit into, not just the themes of dementia and mania, but their purpose within those regions. The Dark Seducers and Golden Saints keep order in their realms, or at least what amounts to order in the Shivering Isles, and their personalities are perfectly suited for doing so in their respective regions. Dementia is the domain of those souls afflicted with deep depression, suicidal urges, existential dread, debilitating phobias, etc. Those pitiable souls in dementia are, one and all, victims of their madness, and, as such, require patience, care, and understanding if they are to be kept above water. Treating a citizen of Dementia with cruelty, in an effort to curb bad behavior, is more likely to trigger them to act out or send them into the depths of despair than to have the desired effect. The derangements of the citizens of Mania, by contrast, are unified by a theme of escapism. Where Dementia's people react to the cruelty of the world with lamentation and despair, the people of Mania run screaming into the arms of any substance, person, activity, or delusion that will allow them to forget that world. Keeping these people grounded doesn't require patience and understanding. It requires a strong hand. When questioning suspects or witnesses in Dementia, the Seducers must be gentle and compassionate to overcome their melancholy and keep their trust. When questioning a suspect in Mania, by contrast, the Saints must not be too squeamish to slap the sad little junkie out of his or her Felldew induced stupor in order to get straight answers. They are molded to their regions as if by design. Were these daedra to switch sides, the Seducers would be walked over by the manipulative, limit-testing population of Mania and the Saints would quickly reduce the fragile population of Dementia to a state of mass suicide, undirected violence, and apathy.

[@Cynder044]

I really like your explanation. I always wondered how they fit into the Shivering Isles, because they seem fairly sane. They just seemed out of place to me. But seeing them as supervising figures makes a lot of sense.

[@hashi_tang]

There is something absolutely relaxing hearing elder scrolls lore. Like a lulling bedtime story. Even if I don't remember everything from every inch of tamriel, it's still fun to listen. Then going back to play ESO, and finding a new perspective of the world, and my characters place in all of it.

[@unbreakablelag]

Last time I was this early, the Snow Elves still had eyes.

[@tazmo_grim6331]

same

[@rokturi]

????????????????

[@chickenator510]

Loving these podcasts guys 👍. I’d love to hear more about the Bosmer at some point.

[@bovrar2nd861]

Yeah! Bosmer definitely!

[@realzachfluke1]

Definitely!!! Y'ffre is one of my new favorite gods, and I’m starting to really love the Bosmer 💚

[@headwrinkle9896]

I cant get into them, I much prefer the old format over the podcast, as entertaining as the information is

[@IHaveWaffles]

My favorite race

[@RevantheBlack]

My head canon on the Golden Saint raising the child Golden Saint: Foolish mortal, I can do anything better than you! Mage: prove it, raise this child Golden Saint: I will prove it!

[@boooster101]

*18 years later* "I have proven myself" "But can you do it again?"

[@Loriethalion]

Honestly, this. That would be how to manipulate a deadra over time, give them a goal and convince them it's their own goal in their own interest. I don't think just anyone could forcefully manipulate a deadra for that long.

[@oblivionnpc1480]

"it can be a little warcraft" lollll what a way to describe the armor. spot on, unfortunately. rip wow.

[@FricknA]

Elder Flaps Online

[@mesektet5776]

The way I took it once I read the accounts of Madness Books in the ES4 and saw Meridia's Daedra were called Aurians - close to Auriel, and heard that the Mazken used to associate with Molag Bal, was that Sheogorath had won them. Same for the Hunger. Keep in mind, he beat every single Daedric Prince in one of these contests, I took it that he got to name a prize, he won the Golden Saints from Meridia, Dark Seducers from Molag Bal, Hunger from Boethia. If anything i want to know what he got from all the others.

[@mesektet5776]

@Amber Hoke Well, yes, obviously. But from which Daedric Prince? Seems like the sort of thing Clavicus would offer to get out of a deal. And of-course, that would mean Barbas would need to give the yarn.

[@ffa2dramachick]

*comes for Drew, he barely says anything, skates through the video until he talks*... Not simping, but he's got some amazing knowledge!

[@ikediz]

I mean, he is a Daedrologist. Studied all over Tamriel and the realms of Oblivion.

[@dergeilteufel]

It is interesting to me how the other 2 tend to dominate the conversation, while the Daedrologist sits quietly in nearly every podcast.

[@XenoDogg]

@@dergeilteufel they’re the Tiber Septim of elder scrolls lore

[@rustysponge3398]

Exams are in a week, but this is more important lol For real though these podcasts are seriously helping me get through all the work being thrown my way, I just listen to the podcasts while working

[@James11111]

The obvious solution is to just change your class to daedrology.

[@rustysponge3398]

@@James11111 YESS, honestly I really wish I could

[@ajstevens1652]

@@James11111 Just applied for it at the Arcane University. Hope I get accepted 🤞

[@rustysponge3398]

@@ajstevens1652 where do I sign up??

[@alpha-0874]

I always thought the Golden Saints may have had some sort of connection to Meridia. Their armor style just looks like it matches Meridia's "theme" so well. They also "like the bright colors"? Meridia's realm being the colored rooms.

[@oliverogden4999]

Your close but she already has her own versions called the Auroran’s and they look similar to the golden saints but they are different

[@chosen_ashenone9677]

Scott, drew, Michael; you absolute sirs! You never disappoint, and Definitely always appreciate your works.😤😤❤️

[@ObliviousIncGaming]

Perfect way to spend my sunday morning, definitely going to be a great day xD

[@oblivionnpc1480]

aw thats a good way to look at it. made my day a little better.

[@richardswett8674]

Yo guys, just wanted to give the props you deserve. Whether it's a video to listen to while I try to sleep, background noise while gaming, or a solid thing playing while I'm doing laundry, you three rock! One of the few channels I subscribe to where I get excited when there's a new upload. Truly, thank you.

[@sindrimyr5351]

I also like the idea that Dagon and Hircine are allies. for example, Dagon supposedly gifted a spear to hircine. at the same time Dagon has a hunting lodge and organazies a great hunt in the chimer of desolation. i feel like those are influenced by Hircine, giving him ideas or outright making the hunting lodge for dagon.

[@FaeFemboi]

24:36 Yea, these terms are a lot like how Naturalists (biologists) used to categorize things, just blatantly based on what they looked like cause that's all they had. And now in 2020 we are analyzing genomes and are making discoveries like "Oh these things are their own entire species. Wack."

[@TheChannelTroll]

Panda Bear. Red Panda

[@boooster101]

My favourite related saying; "There is no such thing as 'a fish'"

[@jorgecardoso5863]

I like how in oblivion the Seducers are sort of kind to residents, as if to deal with their madness they show compassion. The Saints are strict and harsh as if to control the over the top manic behavior. This way, both types of madness are in check

[@CursedAndHauntedMiko]

@Sky Dome I better avoid that realm

[@GhostShadow1030]

I honestly don’t know what I would do without y’all to keep my love and my passion alive and make me happy unlike any like else these days. 🙏

[@TheDrumminjay]

Love the channel, Fudge Muppet! Thanks for bringing all the Elder Scrolls fans together to enjoy a supreme franchise of epic-ness

[@dergeilteufel]

If Mundus is a realm of Oblivion, and its Prince was killed, perhaps that is why all these other Princes are so interested in affecting it. Lorkhan does sound, to me, like the name of a Daedra, and it does make sense, then, for him to have what appear to be allies in Boethiah and Azura and Mephala.

[@logandelaharpe6362]

Lorkhan/shor would be an aedra as he led the other aedra in building nirn

[@denisherlock3023]

_Do you mind? I'm busy doing the Fish Stick. It's a very delicate state of mind!_

[@PattPlays]

25:20 Sounds like a shota raised by a harem. Ballin'

[@PattPlays]

OH daedric summons. I thought they plane shifted a baby into mania.

[@TitanSubZero15]

To me at least, the Creation Club content are like tiny optional DLC content licensed by Bethesda. Lore aside, they serve as little snippets from previous games.

[@BS-gk2cb]

I know podcasts aren't usually the most clickbaity/algorithm prone videos, but I dig the informal discussions and I'm glad you keep putting them out there

[@RWNetworkEX]

Listening to TES lore is really relaxing. Listening to you guys while loungin under a tree

[@coltonhusher3876]

Love the podcasts! It gives me something nice to put on in the background of my ES playthroughs and the more we talk about deadra the more they remind me of how devil's work in D&D. So cool to think that the OG elder scrolls was just a homebrew D&D session.

[@Sophia-vk5bq]

There was a squad of males in The Fringe actually(I want to say 2-3 but its been a while). They were the only ones that survived the initial attack by the forces of order.

[@EpsilonTag]

I don't know if you got this from when I asked you to do this on twitter but IM SO GLAD you did this

[@evancondon1372]

When your chillin in your room and the podcast’s notification

[@seanstacks3436]

I'm so glad I could become a patron, I love the fact that it only cost $1, that's 100% worth it for the awesome content you guys put out.

[@yeahmhmyupsure6379]

hey, you guys should do oblivion builds at some point. that'd be interesting also i think first sorry i had to

[@amethystwyvern]

Skyblivion is getting closer...

[@itsgiorno2311]

you guys are my favorite channel on youtube. ive watched every single one of your videos at the very least twice.

[@pippogriffthegreat7003]

Dude, this is a fantastic subject! I loved having these champions in my employ as the MadGod!

[@Usagi33353]

Dark Seducers = Gentle mommy dom Golden Saints = Hardcore Mommy Dom

[@wadedewell]

Awesome! No wonder I like them so much.

[@barkasz6066]

The idea that Tamriel / Nirn is another plane of Oblivion is really exciting. Why are Daedra obsessed with it? Because it’s up for grabs? Because Lorkhan is dead and it’s the only realm that could mess up the status quo between the Princes and/or the Divines. Although arent’ there references to the Princes trying to take over others’ realms?

[@emilypumpkinseller]

One of the biggest offenses in the history of the universe is TESO making the dark seducer and golden saint armors fuckin ugly

[@NightHealer8284]

I’m definitely enjoying the podcasts! I would to see a obscure lore podcast episode one day! Stuff like enantiomorph, C0DA, Chim, all the obscure lore from MK etc I get it it’s not exactly “canon” but it’s still quite interesting

[@TheRealPDizzle]

You could check out Zharic’s channel for some of that.

[@samueld5885]

What is the name of the soundtrack played at the start of almost every shivering isles video? I can’t seem to find it anywhere. Great content by the way! Always love your wonderful discussions.

[@raganspikes5437]

Can you guys take a deeper look into lorkhan and the et’ada??? Love the video.

[@rickymunoz881]

Ain't nothing I like More than having my day off on Sunday and waking up to play skyrim or oblivion, listen to your podcast and take hits outta my wax pen

[@TobeWilsonNetwork]

I know it’ll take more work, but I’d love videos on character builds for Oblivion

[@guambianthunderbolts905]

How this dude still have content! TOD HOWARD BETTER HAVE PAID THIS MAN! HES BEEN GOING HARD IN THE PAINT FOR ALMOST A DECADE!

[@ferristhered1401]

Huh. I just happened to get caught up on the podcasts yesterday. Perfect timing, apparently!

[@Stormin_Norman_1066]

100% agree on Scott’s take on ESO armor.

[@donwild50]

Just curious but aren't Daedra essentially asexual according to the Lore? They take the "appearance" of male or female (Nocturnal, Azura!) but they are all "Princes," which implies they can pretty much appear in either form? Wouldn't that also apply to the lesser Daedra such as the Golden Saints and the Dark Seducers? I would think their appearance would be more a choice put upon them by Sheagorath than that of any individual DS or GS, but although they may look extremely sexual, they really aren't. It seems they represent Sheogorath's will and sanity/insanity.

[@pineappletheworst]

For of some of my favourite channels post at the same second,you are in the first place🥇

[@CaptainGreenCoin]

I love having background noise in the of stuff that I can learn from so I always love to start your guys's podcast and just go about my day like do the dishes clean and play video games I love these podcast so much you guys do such an amazing job

[@nathanversluys6625]

I was listening to this and went to get some food and my little sister turned it on and when I came back she askes me what masochism was.

[@XJonAye]

Thanks guys, good as always. Nothing like a little coffee, smokes and tes lore to start out the week

[@BlodofUlfhednar]

Keep these up boys. I got me and my mate addicted every Sunday.

[@KieferBeefer]

It would be cool aswell if you brought on guest sometime maybe like camelworks or other elderscrolls lore channels. Love the work.

[@wu1ming9shi]

Why not zharic? Although why do I think it'd turn into an argument lol. XD

[@esper6119]

Maybe that Golden Saint took the kid in because she felt it was her duty, and like she was honor-bound to see it through? Also, I realize that, like, 'among the X' is kind of just the way we say that, but it did call to mind the idea that he might've been raised communally?

[@ludicrousfunone5705]

I'm gonna have to Reference Star Trek in the sens of those daedra are similar to the Romulans and Vulcans! They both were originally the same race! But they had a disagreement, the Romulans left Vulcan and after a few thousand years on their new home world became the Romulans you know in the Next Gen era!!

[@ludicrousfunone5705]

@Amber Hoke Indeed mist of them were which is why the Romulans who escaped from Vulcan and settled on Romulus hate Vulcans with a passion. Mostly....

[@markmorris7123]

As this is now in the Anniversary Edition, is it cannon?

[@logandelaharpe6362]

It was confirmed canon

[@callmemalik5469]

Can you please make a vedio about shadowmeer ( btw I'm not sure I wrote that right ) because this steed is really mysterious and I'd like to know more about him

[@yiasemi]

Definitely part of Sheogorath's problems with his mother, those lesser daedra, they're sinners or saints.

[@JHS270694]

Can listen to you guys for hours. 😁

[@mudcrabmenace8534]

Alternate history video idea: what if the Daedra never existed?

[@danieln425]

Man how I love this podcast so interesting and rich lore you gave us guys thank you for doing this guys and I cant wait for the podcast of the maromer of pyandonia Pd:and your channel have fans in the other side of the earth here in spain keep it guys

[@Merilirem]

Man that Thumbnail.. I miss that game.

[@bejandavid1304]

I really enjoy these podcasts. Keep up the good work :)

[@arth8265]

Golden Saints looks more like Valkyria than elves.

[@savageslattz5705]

I was alway fascinated by the seducers and saints as dremora they so odd looking to the rest of the dedra

[@emiliaantti6669]

1:45 When Michael said "Basically they both wanna be the favourite kid of Sheogorath", my silly brain was ready to finish his sentence like "favourite kid of daddy Sheogorath" and I'm not entirely sure how to feel about this particular mental image 😂 Divines help me.

[@pepehammad2246]

just downloaded the race mod of Golden Saints,Winged Twilights & Dark Seducers and the lore podcast begins .........for me a great day

[@finnhori-ohrstrom6688]

Finally managed to catch up on all the podcasts so far! Id love to see a podcast in future that looks into the lesser known continents of Nirn, eg. Pyandomea, Atmora, Yokuda, the three islands between Tamriel and Akavir( forgot the names) plus combined with some lore about the native races -(Id love some insight into the Maomer) ! Anyways loving the podcasts so far!

[@wreath626]

Just finished the shivering isles again lol convenient timing Also we are really only given a pebble so lets make realms galore

[@tunnelnugget3181]

Damn. That music hit me with the nostalgia again. I guess I'll go play another 100 hours of Morrowind.

[@aelfwine4anarhin]

You ever heard of Pavlov's dog? Well something similar happens with me and Fudgemuppet videos lol. Every week or every two weeks I have the tradition of having pizza for dinner (late in the night) on weekends. I make the pizza myself, I sometimes I bake the dough, sometimes I buy it but I make the whole pizza myself; I shred the cheese, place the ingredients... All that. It takes me around 3 hours since I start up until I finish eating it and during that time I watch all the videos Fudgemuppet have uploaded during the week. Its something that really relaxes me and makes me really happy to the point Im more eager to make the pizza than to eat it lol. Anyways its reached a point where anytime I watch a video at any other time and I hear the Morrowind music intro or the voice of Mike, Scott or Drew I instantly feel the sudden urge of eating my pizza. I know its a bit of a silly comment but for me making my pizza watching your videos is a moment I look forward during the week that makes me genuinely happy. Your channel is great and I hope I can eat a lot more pizzas while I watch how you talk about a argonian phalanx saving Tamriel

[@cris75664]

They are in skyrim now

[@peatymasta]

I would love to see an episode about the elder scrolls cosmology- ie; whether it’s possible to travel to Masser/Secunda, if the planets are actual physical places, or just the dormant bodies of the aedra, etc. I’ve always found it so confusing!

[@XJonAye]

Well I know c0da isn't Canon, but in the novel the dark elves survive on one of the moons. It's interesting you should check it out

[@vonfaustien3957]

Coda isnt canon but both the reman empire and altmer had space programs. The manonauts and sun birds respectively. The sunbirds collected celestial material that was used to build to an orrary before being shut down due to expenses being unsustainable. I think the manonauts established a short lived lunar colony but that could have been kirkbrides shit either was both factions are still canon from in game sources even if they have two sentences of lore. I belive pocket guid to empire mentions them and ESO has some relics related to both orders I think there's some reference to the dwemer having interplaner ships but i cant rember a source and the Khajiit have legends of climbing to one of the moons and supposedly have a colony but again cant rember or find a source so take these last ones with a trucklad of salt. The most well explored "space" ship is the battle spire which was a transplaner construct built by the empire to allow interplaner travel.

[@scott96999]

Drew is caught in the middle of a Golden Saint and a Dark Seducer.

[@Dobbinator817]

you guys should get the elderscrolls cookbook and do a cooking video trying out each recipe from it

[@evanswoodcentral315]

Last time i was this late, the Snow Elves kicked my ass! Lol.

[@salazar5100]

Good shit ma bois 👏

[@TheGrantross]

Loving the podcasts

[@darrelbryant8632]

When I played Morrowind, the old one, your character could not collect the armor after kill one.

[@spencyn2641]

I know these two as the dope costumes in eso you get from champion point leveling, but this was nice.

[@AngelRaivan8579-xh4fr]

All of the pcs from the games become "gods" I think. Shezzarine mantles the umm Shezzarine, hero of kvatch mantles Sheogorrath, dragonborn likely mantles Talos. It's how they are each able to "serve" all of the daedra without dedicating their soul. Maybe it's how the Daedric Princes reproduce. Maybe they all know who each 'mantler' is going to be and the Daedric quests are some kind of test or training. Perhaps the Princes have a culture and social structure so alien or so full of ritual and ceremony by nessecity of the mechanics of their power that such things are essential to them. Maybe thats why Daedra are so preoccupied with Mundus, because Souls are larval Vestiges, maybe some are of better quality and set for a higher purpose. It all makes sense if you think about it. But all of the PC's seem to be tracked for divinity.

[@TheRealPDizzle]

And they all come from low beginnings: locked in prison, marked for execution, sent to a foreign land; always without reputation, gold, and with little to no help. That’s something that always stuck out to me.

[@archmagosdeciuskronen1501]

I think the armor variety seen on Mazken and Aureal in Fargrave is a bit better, they wear a mixture of Daedric, Dremora and Waking Flame motif styles there

[@adamthompson6669]

That time already 😁 😀 love a good podcast with the greats ❤️ 👍

[@timking8405]

Love the channel and love the podcasts! How about a podcast ranking the best quests in the elder scrolls games? Like stealing the elder scroll for the grey fox in oblivion, sneaking into the thalmor embassy in Skyrim, or having that night to remember with Sam guevenne as some examples you’ve mentioned before

[@Loriethalion]

The concept of learning while you're talking and having epiphanies is due to being in "The Zone" AKA The Zone of Proximal Development (ZPD). :) You didn't ask but I think that is the name of hte concept you were talking about :) Learning while doing in collaboration or with assistance is much greater when doing your own research for your own sake :)

[@jas_nah]

This might be an odd compliment but I really like it when you guys handwave things as gameplay instead of coming up with some kind of tortured logic to give them a basis in lore. They're video games, there will be some video game logic, we don't have to treat every little weird gameplay quirk as canon. It sort of reminds me that every single tiny detail doesn't have to make sense all the time, even when trying to understand the larger world.

[@r.n.g.6514]

Great topic.

[@terracat2255]

Didn't realize that thats ehat the skyrim dlc is based on i thought they were just bandit groups originally

[@johnd2422]

I’d like to think the daedric prince’s can only change the shape of a creature to suit their needs, instead of outright create them, like sauron in LOTR he could only change elves and men into orcs not create them.

[@declanwebb3586]

Do you guys have a playlist of your podcasts?

[@jdmj707]

Who gave drew permission to be this handsome?

[@DrCawfee669]

I want to know what each of you would do if you were just transported to the elder scrolls universe, what would you do and where you would you go to survive

[@loganidonthavealastname8007]

How do you guys come up with the backstory for builds there so good :)

[@VelkasConsort93]

It doesnt fullscreen when u fullscreen help Drew!!!!!!

[@Vahmung]

Podcast about Xivilai

[@Bleachigo162]

My takeaway is fudgemuppet also thinks a lot of eso lore is stupid

[@sandycheeeeeeeks]

I always wanted to play as the golden saints in oblivion lol

[@ollyohnorealy9419]

Do sum dark elf stuff u know u want too ... May have to be a 2 or 3 parter tho?

[@dereckrock5970]

How about some kind of anomaly ... behold the golden seducer and the dark saint

[@FricknA]

The males of the Aureal and Mazken are more level headed and are open to different approaches than the females.

[@donwild50]

Golden Saints look gorgeous but they really don't act too "saintly" in the accepted sense (different slant on Saint in TES). While they look lovely, the Dark Seducers aren't far behind in appearance and, at least in my opinion, act a bit more...if not humanely then at least not as openly bloodthirsty.

[@liquidsquid2306]

I wouldnt say that cc is canon, but I would say it's more canon than other mods.