Goth Reacts to 40 Years of Men's Goth Style

[@aytakk]

Your voice is particularly silky smooth today

[@JesseDoucet1]

Hey! Thanks for the Reaction! :D I like the comments about staying in character. Though I really only went through one of the looks, I had to base my expressions of a storyboard. I don't know if you would like to hear it, but Emo was the only one I went through. Ps. also sorry about the headbanging. I went for NIN. Not sure if that's even close :) You mentioned as well that Vampire was your favorite, I would have to agree on that. And I'm glad I can hit the parts. One more thing! Winklepickers, Amazing Name for Shoes!!! Thanks again! Cheers! Jesse

[@SaraMonsterOfficial]

Yes! I was hoping you'd do this. I would love to see you create your own! I'm sure you'd do it justice. 🖤

[@KaiDecadence]

Same. Or heck, just get some people who are part of the subculture and come up with their take on it. It'll be like a group collaboration. :3

[@AjiLaStrange]

Yes!

[@Vi0l33t]

Aji!

[@AjiLaStrange]

Vi0l33t Hey there!

[@KaiDecadence]

To add to your comment on Emo as to why I think people kept saying Emo is goth. I'm sure we're close in age because you mentioned about how the Mainstream started labeling Emo as the new Goth so I'll say this. Did you ever run into anyone be it internet or real life back in the day who looked like they were straight up Emo but they'd say things like "I'm actually emo and goth" or "I'm a Goth Emo"? I certainly remember seeing this when I was in middle school (2002-2004) and I personally think this helped contribute to the problem as well. I mean, when I think back to the kids I ran into saying tht, they didn't know any actual Goth music (or they considered Marilyn Manson, Korn --Yes, Korn--, and Evanescence as their Goth music, they didn't know any real legitimate goth bands). They'd know every trending band that was popular in Pop Punk & Emo but never any Goth. And because so many of these kids were saying this and no one really corrected them, that' is certainly another factor that played in the misappropriation of what Goth was. I do agree, if she just titled these videos "Alternative fashion of 40 years" or "Dark fashion of 40 years", it would make a lot more sense because all it does is make it confusing for people who may not know all that much about the scene (which is why I made my own video). The only one that threw me off was "Edwardian", I mean, I have heard of Edwardian Fashion but I never heard of "Edwardian Goth". I felt like it was supposed to be meant as "Victorian"? I dunno, that one confused me but I did like the look xD And for Deathrock, I was thinking his makeup looked somewhat similar to It'sBlackFriday's husband Matthias' makeup lol I'll agree on the shoes, considering it's supposed to be revival, I feel that those into Deathrock may incorporate some platform combat boots into the look and I think it looks pretty neat at that. Minor complaints aside, I do think this one was better than the female one. And sorreh for the long comment lol

[@squeezyewok]

You're totally right about the "Emo goth" kids!

[@h8luvtrashwarning437]

I 🖤the insight. Im a 90s goth & I work in wardrobe in the theater so I completely appreciate where u are coming from. You ARE a babe& that voice!!!

[@deedeeblackwater8354]

I know you kept saying "I shouldn't even have to go into why emo isn't goth," but I still think that for a younger generation it's important to make those points, and by saying that it gives off the feel of "people should just know better." I'm in my early twenties and although emo was big when I was growing up, I still was too young to really understand the movement. I personally find that at least aesthetically there are some significant overlaps, even if musically the two subcultures are very different. Hearing you expand upon the history was helpful, and I would be surprised if there weren't other babybats that feel similarly. I've been so turned off by the number of videos that reacted with hostility towards the inclusion of emo (even though I too once got offended when people mixed emo with goth), that your explanation of the history (albeit brief) shed more light than the number of other goth youtubers that left it at "Just no. That's wrong." It's important to remember that not everyone watching this video, especially current day teens that are just dipping their toes into the subculture, were on the internet in the mid-2000s when the "goth is not emo" conversations were happening.

[@pathways678]

you have such a relaxing voice

[@luciagianquitto5577]

omg your voice is like a taste of pure choccolate , i Can die of happiness

[@peterkarargiris4110]

If controversy was Ms Ladoucheur's intention in making this video, then she succeeded.

[@lolahamilton7004]

is there anyway you can just record yourself reading my favourite books, your voice is so deep and relaxing !

[@lpslove183]

OMG your voice is amazing

[@CemeteryConfessions]

Thank you! I've just upgraded my podcast equipment and I've been doing vocal exercises to help improve the audio quality on the podcast. :)

[@amandaparker150]

I'd just like to say, I love all of your videos/podcasts. Thanks for this channel. I could listen to your voice/thoughts all day. xx

[@squeezyewok]

Hello. Just stumbled upon this channel and like what you have to say in general. I see that this video is over a year old, so I'm not sure if your views have changed on it, but I just want to weigh in here on some of your comments. I'm a 1st-wave goth who lived through all of those 40 years in the video, and I've been in the L.A. goth/ industrial/ fetish scene for about 30 years now, so my comments are all based on experience. My impression is that there is a *distinct* difference between what the IDEAL of a look is on paper, and what ACTUALLY SHOWS UP in the club scene. What actually shows up in the *culture* may not be aesthetics that you agree falls under "GOTH", but the culture nonetheless morphs without your approval. In my time, I have gone to countless clubs and events all over California, Portland and New Orleans. And, from what I've heard, L.A. has had arguably the strongest and most influential goth club scene in America over the last 40 years, so I will primarily be referring to that. Overall, I think Lisa's video was spot-on. My view is that whether you feel Steampunk and Emo should be included in a Goth video is irrelevant, because like it or not, those people *showed up* in the culture at various times. Are they goth? NO. However, over the last 40 years, the various subcultures listed in the video nonetheless infiltrated the goth scene. That's just a fact, and I witnessed it. Is it what we wanted to happen? No. The "sorry, not sorry" comment in the video isn't a fuck you. It's saying that we fucking hated those Emo kids, but there was a moment when they were all showing up at the goth clubs for some reason, so fucking deal with it. No, they weren''t goth, fuck no. But their aesthetic nonetheless influenced what *actually* showed up in the scene. Their Hot Topic fashion was cheap and accessible. Suddenly, the kid who thought they needed a ton of money to buy the right "look" to attend a goth club could finally buy it at Hot Topic and muster-up the guts to show up in a black hoodie and jeans. Yeah, it was lame, but those emo kids were suddenly showing up at Cruxshadows shows and Perversion. The scene is in constant flux. *What you wish the goth scene WAS *on paper* is completely different than the reality of the culture that SHOWS UP. That is a very, very important distinction to take in. In L.A., everything has always been very fashion-oriented in the goth scene. When I first started going to clubs like The Scream in the late '80s, it was All Black Everything, death rockers in winklepickers, Siouxsie doubles, aqua net, cheap makeup, boys in skirts and girls in floor-length dresses. Cowboy boots? Yep. Bands like The Cult, Ministry and Fields of the Nephilm were absolutely culling dark looks from America's wild west past (gothicwestern.com/site/). Goths took them and added a lot of silver bling, adding black cowboy hats, bandannas and leather dusters to the mix. In the 90s, I started to see corsets, fetish fashion overlap, and industrial overlap (sidebar: there IS such a thing as "Industrial fashion." Rivetheads like myself love industrial music, but we don't refer to the fashion as rivet fashion or rivethead fashion. Putting together an industrial look is all about stompy boots, militaristic looks and very strict-looking, pre-1940 Berlin aesthetics. There was a DJ here named Sean Schur who also helped popularize the kilt with docs and industrial tees.). By the late 90s, I was seeing a huge glam/ pinup influence, and for guys, the Lestat look from the early 90's switched out to wearing coats from The Shrine for the aristocratic vamp look, combined with pvc pants and Demonia boots. Steampunk became a thing, and I think goths who wanted to be different started wearing the looks to clubs. Dieselpunk looks started to show up at industrial clubs like Kontrol Faktory. At clubs like Malediction, you'd see "Steampunk Nights," because there was a bleed-over of goths who also liked bands like Abney Park. Which leads me to the Edwardian look. That is completely because of The Edwardian Ball in San Francisco. As in, the ball that celebrates Edward Gorey. Suddenly, all the fashionistas from San Diego to Seattle were converging in San Francisco to sport their best gothic-infused Edwardian, Victorian and 1920s dressed-to-the-9's fashion. The event was so major that the looks you'd see there influenced weekly goth club looks. As to the cyber goth look, they were ALL over the industrial clubs in the 2000s. For awhile, it sucked going to Das Bunker, because their music started to infiltrate as well, and it was arguably just dark techno. Oh, you'd see them at goth clubs like Helter Skelter, Coven 13 and Release The Bats, too. Their dreadfalls knew no bounds. Yes, on paper they had a different scene. But is that what ACTUALLY SHOWED UP in the clubs? No, there was major bleed-over. Trad goths hated them, the rivets hated them, but to the cyber goths we weren't being progressive enough and were outdated. Their over-the-top style NONETHELESS was hugely influential on the goth scene. More people started wearing crazy contact lenses, platform boots, dreads and massive hairpieces and different elements of the cyber goth style that they could assimilate. Even if you hated cyber goth, unfortunately you can't erase the influence it had on goth fashion. These examples I'm giving are to testify to what I personally saw in the goth scene during the 40 years referenced, and they totally match my experience, whether I loved the looks or hated the looks. Those trends were the trends that *kept the scene alive* during the dark times. That's another key distinction that I think you're missing. Were all the looks goth? No. Were they influenced by goth? Yes. Were those the people that were on the dance floor for an Ex Mal Deutchland song? Yes, they were. Like it or not, they were IN the goth scene at one time or another. That might not look good in a textbook history of goth, but what Lisa Ladoceur is saying is that they nontheless influenced goth fashion, period. She's NOT saying what PURE goth fashion should have been or what ONLY the purest, gothiest of the goths wore. She's trying to tell you what has influenced the scene over these last 40 years. And that is the most important distinction to keep in mind when watching the video.

[@vampireleniore]

The first thing I thought when I saw the vampire was Barnaby as well. It really does look like him, except I don't think I have ever seen him in a white shirt. I definitely mix and match as well. It's too limiting for me to stuff myself into a box. I have everything from trad goth to Victorian in my wardrobe and even some gothabilly thrown in.

[@greekvampy3690]

Wait cemetery confrstions came up with a new video

[@gogodance5244]

Oooh you should definitely make your own video on this xD

[@happymommywatson]

new sub here because wow your voice

[@HANNAHPUNKBABE]

My bf would love your Jacket where is it from ? Awesome vid . X

[@CemeteryConfessions]

The jacket is a modified Tripp jacket. Here is the blog where I show how I stripped it down and modified it. www.thebelfry.rip/blog/2015/11/1/how-to-diy-deathrock-jacket

[@skullbreakgaming]

welcome back to youtube count :)

[@CherryDNA]

I think industrial look also depends on where you live. At my country many industrial bands dress up like the guy in this 40 Years of Men's Goth Style -video.

[@elizaworth]

Great review and accurate...thank you for this and for your honesty. I agree that she is generalizing in that she includes "dark alternative" sub categories...

[@LiseWinterscatsandgumballs]

Do a video about your jacket. :D

[@LiseWinterscatsandgumballs]

thanks 😎

[@greekvampy3690]

OK u convinced me to scribe I have a question were do u think Gothic identify evolved from

[@greekvampy3690]

?

[@PhyreI3ird]

I wasn't really exposed to the scene at the time but it seems like there was a staggered inter-bleeding of one borrowing from the other and the other borrowing back between rave and clubbing scenes and goth scenes, where each took from the other and came out different and that's how we got Cyber goth and they got stuff like Graver. But then again, I'm pretty new here and this may just be a very uninformed view. From where I sit, I just don't personally see how cyber goth _isn't_ part of the goth subculture.

[@GoreGothSam]

How am I just seeing this!?

[@rockaholicangel523]

Goth and emo fashions were both very popular in 2005 but i dont understand why they went with emo in the video. Though you could combine goth and emo for example the band Aiden, they are gothic yet emo at the same time.

[@AjiLaStrange]

Time to talk torture devices. >D

[@blktauna]

totally get some folks together and make the style video!

[@xxspookshowxbabyxx]

I wouldn't say Liisa had the timeline right though..

[@CemeteryConfessions]

I think I gave up on the dates being accurate in the previous 40 years of goth.

[@marvinraja5796]

nice review,

[@elisaninis]

20 minutes of reaction? but...the video's only 4 @-@

[@CemeteryConfessions]

I'm nothing if not thorough!

[@greekvampy3690]

How about the middle ages some of the Gothic fedishes resemble middle age tools

[@gustavoa.belfiore4701]

This is all pretty much spot on! In the case of Emo I think you're being too generous when you call it "dark alternative", I don't think it's even that.

[@gustavoa.belfiore4701]

Oh and also yeah, I didn't understand why they put the Deathrock thing in 2015, I remember being aware of the LA/Bay Area scene + German, Italian, etc Deathrock scenes back in 2003 (and I lived in Argentina, which means that by the time it reached me it must have been already growing for a while) ... Deathrock Revival started to be a thing at that time and never really died out completely since then, but as something characteristic from a certain time I'd definitely place it in the early-to-mid 2000s

[@KrystalFantom]

Hearing these labels used so much makes me cringe. Still a informative video though.

[@nick16279]

Post-punk goth is the best

[@timmclovin]

Pin-up was suppose to be Gothabilly. It's mostly in southern California and UK. Mostly part of Rockabilly and Psychobilly sub culture. Back in high school Greasers and Goths got along. We avoided the scene and emos kids.

[@christybernal6114]

You need eyeliner lol

[@DeathThemself]

Please do an accurate video!