Gyro Noise Troubleshoot | MINI QUAD BLACKBOX

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My mini quad is having problems with gyro noise. I'll show you how to recognize when gyro noise is affecting your mini quad, and I'll tell you the steps to troubleshoot the problem (and hopefully, solve it).
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[@rl2109]

Nice info! I have a new whoop that would go into an uncontrollable YAW spin after a couple of minutes of (conservative) flight... I was trying to tune it out when I saw some bad lines in BetaFlight's 'Motors' tab... I inspected the whoop and found the rear mount and dampening grommet were sitting loose on top of that mounting screw. I fixed that and the YAW spin has disappeared... My eyes weren't sharp enough to catch this out-of-the-box defect until I started scrutinizing the craft... Shows you that utilizing ALL information can help point you in the direction of a solution! Thanks for all you do, JB!

[@BadLuckFPV]

4:50 JB: It might not be possible to fix it because you're just unlucky Me, BadLuckFPV: shit

[@TMacFPV]

Joshua-I love the way the FC talks to the ESC and the ESC talks to the motors and the motors are just like uuuhhhh! I 'm doin' the best I can! Classic! Actually, for me this was very timely as I had my GT R90 FC with MPU 6000 (Fury F4 V2) go out on me. So, I'm replacing it with a Fury F4 V1 (32k gyro) which I know has had some noise issues. The only reason I'm using it is because its a spare i had laying around. Wish me luck! Great video. Thanks.

[@michaelwilkes0]

"doin my best here guys" thumbs up :)

[@winrar23rar]

thats best :DDDD

[@strawhatsam]

OMG 2:33 best JB moment ever!!!

[@mopthespill]

Good morning Joshua! just wanted to thank you for the amount of videos you are making and most and importantly the content of said videos are exceptional. side note love the new FC with the built in flash :). blackbox here i come!

[@BradDStephensAIFPV]

Thank you for doing this video. After seeing this I decided to finally stop trying to tune it out. My first instinct weeks ago was the change the ESC to something else, but I avoided it. Today I changed out the nice 40a 4 in 1 into separate ESC's, inexpensive 30a 32bit and only one capacitor. Got rid of the noise. No prop-wash now RF feels amazing.

[@HelioRC]

Great video! The ICM 20602/20608 gyros have known issues with clipping which is why they made the 20601 which doesn’t clip. It’s a more expensive component but worth it in terms of quality. A couple things to note: Grommets + rubber standoffs can actually create very bad noise problems because it’s literally too soft and allows the FC/Stack to sway and move too far durning hard maneuvers. With Helio specifically, soft-mounting motors has proven to also create issues in most cases. That’s because we don’t filter noise as you would a subwoofer with notches and cascading LPFs, we filter using an advanced kalman that’s designed pass through real motion with less delay and error. As JB said, you can mask issues, but masking issues will make your quadcopter fly poorly instead of allowing you to see there’s a problem and give you the opportunity to resolve the underlying issues. Not everything is compatible with everything else. Prop and motors choices, esc choices, FC choices, not every permutation is possible to test and verify compatibility. The machines themselves are simple but the nuances are highly complex. Happy flying!

[@MCsCreations]

Helio RC Hey, how's everything? Is there any international supplier where I can find your board? Because the shipping from the US is usually really expensive. 😔

[@ChristopherPunton]

Got mine from rcpapa.com

[@SlipperyFPV]

Gotta love the Helio Spring on Odin! ;)

[@wyvern4588]

I got a really good tune going with Odin, should upload a video soon, my graphs are good, gyros are calm and smooth, some oscillations in the worst case scenarios, such as punching out after a hairpin- but this is the nature of the beast (prop wash is going to happen) and the tune, but the Gyro data is pristine. I have a F4 with a 32khz gyro that will peak even when double soft-mounted, if only Helio had a 20mm board...

[@jannesbosma9801]

Wyvern mostly what is called propwash, isn't propwash. You're tuning your PID with normaal airflow. When you fly at high speed and suddenly make a full throttle 180° the air flow becomes double of what it was when you were tuning. Which will result in your to be expected too high P oscillations.

[@djilly75]

wow! I swear you are reading my mind and you know every single problem I have with my quads

[@shayk313]

You rock brother! You always get my mind going in the right direction when it comes to solving that stuff! Keep up the great work man I have learned so much from your videos.

[@rahulswaminathan3811]

Hey Josh, the reason the yaw axis is most affected by vibrations (11:36) is not to do with the design of the chip, it's because excitation by an out of balance rotor causes displacements along the plane of rotation - and the yaw axis is the only degree of freedom affected along that plane (pitch and roll are both perpendicular to the rotation). It's kind of like how in a car engine with a horizontal crankshaft, you expect to see vibrations "up and down" or "side to side" but not "back to front"!

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I'm not sure this is true though. When you spin motors, you see vibrations on all axes. There's no reason to assume a prop is well balanced on the up/down axis after all. There's no reason to assume a motor is perfectly perpendicular to the axis of the quad. So I think vibrations can occur on all axes. yaw axis often shows less gyro noise than the other three, but it is always, always yaw that "glitches" in cases like this.

[@rahulswaminathan3811]

Joshua Bardwell hmmm yeah true I was looking at it assuming the prop/motor bell is a bit off centre but still roughly balanced in the up down direction. I’ll look into this, let us know if you figure it out :)

[@fpvlive]

Great video, I'm glad you bring this topic up. Altough my type of problems are not mentioned. I'm running a matek F722-std and I double softmount all my motors, soft mounted the FC with silicon rings as well but I'm getting oscillations of the top end of the throttle.

[@andreasthilander3592]

Thanks! With the help of this video I finally figured out why my quad was having mid to high throttle oscillations after changing escs (to a 4 in one) and FC... ( Been struggling for a while, tried TPA and tuning to death but it turns out my pitch P gain had to be turned down really, really, low compared to my roll P.)

[@walspeed]

Hey Joshua, Ive also had some luck with 4 in 1 esc's putting copper foil over the esc fets on some of them. Electromagnetic interference can some times find its way inot the gyro and applying the copper foil helped out alot. RDQ carries it but if you go to model shops, a lot of times they'll have it for car models in larger sheets with adhesive on one side.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

The ESC is DAL Engine which has a nice metal cover already.

[@Oderwat]

I am so exited. I just replaced the GOKU F722 MPU 6000 of my FC with one from a defective AIO toothpic FC and guess what? It worked. I already ordered a new FC but wanted to try if I can replace it with my SMD rework station. Guess how happy I was as the FC booted and a first test shows that the gyro is "clean" again. What happened was that shortly after I got the quad I had a hard crash and I had to replace an arm. At the same time I updated to BF 4.2 and had a hard time to tune as I always got strange oscillations on throttle up. No amount of filtering or playing with the PIDs worked. FC was already soft mounted and everything else checked. It turned out that the original gyro started to jerk on the pitch axis probably caused by that crash some days ago. It took me some time to find out that my problems was actually related to a defective gyro. It was not apparent to me until I checked the black box logs which showed a scraggly unregular noise on the pitch axis, as soon as the motors were running. The conclusion: Gyros can break on crashes :(

[@dronedoutrc5970]

Pretty much why I use the soft mount stand offs with the soft silicone grommets that go in the fc mounting holes. On some builds I even soft mount my motors. Soft mount the soft mounts yo. I never have issues with noise from vibration doing so. My very first quads hardware is still in action. Keep all wires clear of the gyro and cap your power. A mistake people make is they never factor in frame resonance. All carbon is not created equal and certain frames like the speed addict super light and the Astro X series of frames are very prone to this from what I have seen. Hard mounting an fc was always an issue in those builds I have fixed for people. I would tell them to soft mount the fc at the very least and add a low esr cap min of 470uf 25v. People who would not listen had issues those who did listen had smooth flying quads on stock BF tune.

[@-sickfast434]

i really like this blkbox stuff and these vids are motivating me to try using them for fine tuning thx jb

[@ds3656]

I have a new build that's not flown for over a year. I've been softmounting and swapping parts out and it still doesn't fly as good as your little shimmy. I wish it would fly that good. I recently flashed it with Betaflight 3.4 and used the tuning tips and chose the "beat up quad" option. It still jitters just on a hover and motors get hot. I've tried everything other than put the parts on another frame or swapping the flight controller. But these are the final two options I'm left with so a new flight controller is on order!

[@thereisa6inthename]

D S have you tried different props? I had terrible noise that didn't go away. I softmounted, added a capacitor, everything i could think of, at the end, i just had shitty props.

[@droneee3478]

Great video. My first build with the 20602 gyro behaved the exact same way. It was worth a shot at 32khz and all that fun but now I just stick with MPU 9000 way less headaches.

[@mikec4032]

Thanks JB! I'm having a terrible time with desyncs on my new 6S build, and I'm hoping you might have a suggestion before I start replacing components. Specs: Mode 2 Ghost, Aikon AK32 4-1 ESC, Pyrodrone F4 FC, Hyperlite 2405/1722 kV, 330uF (I think - it's whatever came with the Aikon) on the battery leads. In Blheli32 I've set demag comp to HIGH, AUTO motor timing (though I've tried other timings), 48kHz PWM, and I'm running DShot 1200 ( though I've tried every other protocol the Aikon will accept). It desyncs during hard throttle application in turns, and generally the left arms drop, but I've had the right side drop as well. Interestingly (and sadly), I have a friend with THREE new builds using this hardware and he's having desyncs on all three! Any help would be tremendously appreciated. Thanks.

[@rickjames8897]

Love the sound effects!

[@DP69264]

I literally just changed a flight controller for the same issue! Mine got so bad that it would do a full 180 on the yaw axis. It took me a while to figure it out because I thought I was having pid issues. Mine was a omnibus f4. Got a new one and I don't have the gyro issue but I still have this "wobble" mostly noticable in smooth flight but I can hear it quite a bit. In the second flight after adding the cap and soft mount the motors sound like flubber haha.

[@FiorixF1]

I love that KZbin subtitles recognize the drone sound as "music".

[@jessiahd.6143]

Hey Joshua! This helped a lot. Unfortunately I'm looking at needing a new flight controller in thus new build. The FC/esc combo I'm running is the Axisflying Argus f7 Pro 65amp esc. This has been driving me wild trying to resolve it. Am I going to need a new esc as well or just a new FC? Can you recommend a good FC for a 6" 6s quad?

[@madforit9661]

Not a bad video Josh, after all the vibration I had ,it couldn't be sorted Today the new flight controller arrived

[@bladeystudio]

Another great video thanks, it will help In diagnosing my quads problem of drifting to the right. I’ve tried resetting the accelerometer,adjusting pids,adjusting my transmitter etc. with no fix so maybe it is vibration. I’ve had this problem on a new build and changing the fc was the solution. What do you think? ?

[@LeonVuksic]

I used to have noise like that, punching the throttle would fix it and it would shake only when I fly slow and stable. I didnt solve the problem, i flashed bf 3.4 and didnt touch the pids and filters, Ill fly it tomorrow and see how it works out, if id doesn't I'm gonna have a blackbox log for the fb group to look at :P

[@SlipperyFPV]

Good vid JD! However frustrating it can be, you always learn something from these problems and there's always a solution!

[@ReeferNoob23]

I have the same issue with a new build and my arms are loose and no matter how hard I tighten the screws they still wiggle I believe that is my problem next is to drill a new hole and add an additional screw

[@Reecefpv]

Guess I gotta try figure out black box. I got a brand new Taycan basically and I've been trying everything to stop the twitching even when hovering and the slightest breeze even inside just from the slight wind it puts through the room. Everyone says to use defaults and I should be fine but that's not happening. I'm running 4.1.2 and iv soft mounted everything already lol. I swear jv had more problem out of a quad thats supposed to be smoother by design lol

[@BradDStephensAIFPV]

That white car looks familiar. Are you chill'n with Mr. Davis? Are you debugging a RF build or just some FC with MPU6000? I have my first RF quad and am running into the same issue. Flies like a dream, but struggling to clean up the noise. My RF

[@rudevibe]

Hi, Joshua! I have a big problem but no one who i know can't resolve it. I have a really bad yaw twitches on Throttle 50% (not 0-49%, not 51-100%) right on 50%. I change motors, frame, FC, stup capacitor, dampfers - problem is still here. One thing i dont change is TBS Crossfire. I dont mind whats going on… (Sorry for my english and big up from Russia)

[@KCQuadTronX]

I AM LEARNING SO MUCH FROM YOUR SUPER DEDICATED TIME SPENT ON ALL OF THIS AND EVERYTHING ELSE YOU DO ....THANK YOU......BTW I AM SO SO READY TO ADVANCE FURTHER INTO THIS AND WITH YOUR HELP I KNOW I WILL BECAUSE IT IS YOU THAT HAS GOTTEN AND EVEN LEAD ME MORE INTO ADVANCING AND FURTHING MY AND EVERYONE ELSES FUTURE AND DREAMS FINALLY COME TRUE .....EVEN AFTER BEING ALMOST MURDURERD I THOUGHT I WOULD NEVER GET TO MY DREAMS AND SUCCEED OR BE ABLE TO SHARE MY BRAIN WITH EVERYONE LIKE YOU SHARE YOURS BUT THEN I STARTED TO RESEARCH AGAIN AND STARTED DIGGING INTO WHAT I COULD DO FROM HOME THAT WOULD NOT HURT TO BAD TO DO IT CAUSE I AM LITERALLY PERMANANTELY DISABLED FROM THE INCIDENT AND SO NOW I AMM HOME LITERALLY 24/7 AND SO IT HAS BECOME AN OPPORTUNITY TO STEP INTO THE SPOT LIGHT AND HELP OTHERS AND MYSLEF AND FAMILY OF COURSE INCLUDED.....AND WELLL HERE WE ARE ...LOL.....ALTHOUGH I HOPE U ARENT GETTING ANNOYED BY ALL MY REPLIES AND MESSAGES LOL HOPEFULLY WHAT I JUST SAID JUST GIVES U AN IDEA HOW IMPORTANT THIS ALL IS TO ME AND HOW SERIOUS I AM AND ALWAYS WILL BE ABOUT WHAT WE R DOING ON HERE AND THAT THIS MAY BE A HOBBY TO MOST ,BUT THEN OTHERS HAVE TO AND EVEN JUST WANT TO TAKE THIS VERY SERIOUSLY AND INSTEAD OF IT BEING OUR HOBBIES ITS KINDA OR IS OUR JOBS AND LIVES.......NOT HOBBIES....THATS A OVERUSED WORD FOR SURE LOL

[@ohgeez9971]

I don't know if this is your issue or not, but my quad was flying strange. Lots of vibration. I changed out the props, etc. but nothing helped. I ended up twisting the arms a bit and found out that one was a lot more "twisty" than the rest. I'm assuming it's delaminating and I just can't see it. I'll be swapping it out tonight, so I don't know if it's my issue yet, but thought I'd mention it.

[@thepredator6931]

Thank you very much for helping me out with the issue. I looked for this such a long time. I found something like mid throttle gitter.. Thanks a lot from Germany 👍👍👍

[@fatpoorvagrant3662]

Lord is hope this works, I'm getting really bad yaw twitch and I'd HATE to have to replace my JB F7 FC! Damn thing looks so sweet in my Chameleon TI. *Update* This was my first real build with parts I chose. It wasn't anything wrong with my build. I downgraded the firmware that came on the esc from 32.8 to 32.7, problem solved. It was enough to scare and frustrate the hell out of me considering I'm new to this.

[@svin3819]

Perfect timing! My new build is doing this exact same thing. Using the HGLRC f440, xhover win5L frame with emax LS2207 2400kv with the emax avan flow props. Shakes so bad you can't fly it. Also using the racewire. Don't know if that could be chocking the voltage or amps? Let me know if you have ever heard of that? FC is softmounted too. Any help would be nice of if there have been problem with the parts I'm using be nice to know too.

[@legrossingeobese]

hello i know the video is a bit old but i had a question. can these vibrations that overheat the motors and maybe the flight controller cause the drone to crash (failsafe or security for the motors)? Thank you.

[@shiggzitiz6463]

Sat here in 2022 trying to fix a noise issue on my Chameleon... Watched tens of videos, messed with PID settings endlessly, hours looking at blackbox explorer... Gets to the end of this video and hears Bardwell say "and in this case the frame is an ARMATTAN CHAMELEON"... Il be damned. with all the standard hardware and rubber FC standoffs i think i am as you put it, screwed. This only started happening after a BLHeli_S Bluejay update. First quad too so until this video i was stumped, now i think my Matek FCHUB is too close to the bottom plate sending vibration into the standoffs... I hope.

[@brownster4865]

Can you pin the fix? Did the new flight controller fix it?

[@edh7620]

Also, what happens with the dodgy FCs? Have you put them into other builds? Builds with smaller motors etc? I ask because I have a tyro99 that yaws crazy bad and I want to know if I should just buy another drone kit, so that way I can get a new FC and try that and if it is still bad then I can put it down to an inherent problem of the drone itself rather than the FC, then I have a spare FC, and a new drone :-)

[@youtubxkip]

OMG, I'm such a noob... I started to suspect some problems, got into blackbox, plotted the histogram - and it was almost all red, like that red so no filters could help... I watched 2 hours of different videos about blackbox and filters, and only then got to this Joshua's video where I was told to review the props and replace them LOL. Now my histogram is green and quad flies perfectly smooth! 😀On top of that, while I was testing this 3" build, I though, why should I put both screws to each props, 1 should be enough, it is fractions of a gram... Oh, my, such a noob (facepalm), 1 beaten prop and 1 instead of 2 screws in a props that made them imbalanced and caused enormous vibration noize

[@MrStevegibb]

Honestly i think the issue is your forced with these gyros to softmount and sometimes that softmount can cause its own problems. I personally don't like the thin rubber standoffs and much prefer the big 8mmx8mm m3 standoffs as they are much stiffer. The mpu6000 is still my preferred gyro as with it you have much more flexibility and don't have to softmount but can if you need to.

[@IanF-FPV]

What about running up each motor without the props on to see which arm or arms are generating the noise? It can be a bad FC but most times its not once they are soft mounted.

[@wyvern4588]

Yes, that can work.

[@MaimexRC]

Thanks! Please make a follow up video with the new FC :) also I am having jello with a runcam split on a GEPRC sparrow and I don't have place to mount a ND filter on top of my lens, would you make a jello troubleshoot video ? *KUTGW* =)

[@catoen87]

Hi! I have a own design 6/7 inch 3d printed noisy quad. For it not to burn up I must set d-term 0-6. Guess I need to try a capacitor... 🙈 Can I add one 1000 uF and one 560 uF together?? Flying 5s and 6s with 4-in-1 esc.

[@Just-A-Guy-Learning]

A little dynamat goes a long way. Its used for arresting high powered speaker vibration. Keeps your trunk lid quiet when your competition sub woofers are trying to blow it off. Little on the expensive side unless you get the small 12"x12" sheet. Stick a little on the frame or under the standoffs. Never to the fc. Its super sticky and may pull things off.

[@ken-kamm]

Mass damping, which is what dynamat does, isn’t ideal for quads since we’re trying to keep the weight to a minimum.

[@Just-A-Guy-Learning]

kenkamm it doesnt take much or add much weight. It calmed down the matek f404 aios. They have samples on counter bells. Little tiny piece does a lot.

[@kebabas5lt]

Having similar issues, will try to add capacitors, thanks. Also, any tips on this issue?: after fast flips camera resets (video goes black for a moment, then armattan logo appears). All good on rolls, also after reset all values on osd are not lost, so i guess its only camera power loss. Using predator with cl racing f4s wired just like on manual.

[@mixblast1]

Hey JB, you should get a whiteboard! I feel like you could really provide more value by having informative visuals (not that we don't like to watch you talk)

[@Ka0sNite]

Like Bruce from RCModel reviews.

[@RollnHeavyKevy]

Awesome video again. Some day i will attempt to run blackbox. Till then i will listen and learn. Ps. Are you thinking of doing a review of the commander v2? Thanks again for the entertainment.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Yes I am working on a Commander v2 review.

[@RollnHeavyKevy]

Awesome. I thought you might be. 🤓

[@edh7620]

So what about reducing d term low pass frequency like Dronemesh suggests?

[@youeladamas7840]

the f405 had the same yaw twitch issue try it in multishot before you take it apart. i think real issue is how its might be wired on some boards or even just to much heat in production for the newer chip good info Teach

[@JoshuaBardwell]

No way I'm going back to multishot. Turtle mode forever.

[@youeladamas7840]

lol yeah cuts walks of shame by 70%. i can wait for the new hal sensor motors and esc i saw Zoe use them and they look like a next step but they are going to cost in the start. lol use your position to get you some early wink wink for testing

[@andrecpu]

Thanks Joshua!

[@DJJakeyJake]

I've been tryin to fix this issue on my Floss 2 frame with Helio FC and Emax 2207 2400 kv motors with 2 different ESCs. Lately I've been debating if it could be the motors on that set up. They do feel notchy and could be causing vibrations. Who know... good info in here anyhow.

[@rc-wingman5719]

how about balancing motors with tape? Worked great on all of my quads.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

It can work but it is so much work and time and then the first time you crash, it's ruined. I don't think it's worth putting a lot of time into balancing props and motors because of this. Just build a system that can tolerate a small amount of noise and then when things get too bad, repair or replace the motors.

[@rc-wingman5719]

I can confirm that from my experience, that it can take some time. It took me about 5 minutes per motor. You are right, once motors are bent things can get impossible. On the other hand, bending a motor won't happen on every crash. Even one motor can get out of balance in a crash, the other motors can be fine. That still gives you only 1/4 times of vibrations than an unbalanced setup.

[@ivanellis3198]

Would soft mounting the motors help?

[@wyvern4588]

Yes, and I have confirmed this on a noisy 2" build with a gritty motor.

[@speedmaster2738]

Hello Joshua, Congratulations for your outstanding expertise and high quality videos. Very impressive !!! Currenlty I have a quad eachine TS215 and I had a crash after which I needed to change 2 motors and the ESC. Nos this has been done, the Quad is flying again but even after dozens of gyro calibration in Betaflight, the quad is LEVEL/Horizon mode is still drifting ( highly ) on the right.... I have no idea why !! I have NO trim on my radio, and in Acro mode the quad works almost ok... Any idea on how to debug this ?? using the black box ?? Am i missing something in betaflight ?? Thanks !

[@JoshuaBardwell]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/paWtf62Qp6pgr80

[@speedmaster2738]

looks to work !!! THANK YOU. The "trimming from stick" is working for roll. but does it work for pitch ?? looks like it only applies for roll

[@shawnpatrickblue9494]

thank you sir allways something good to know

[@Robert67909]

I'm having those type of problems with A CL racing F4 board and I've done all the above as well so guess it's on to another flight controller

[@IconicProps]

I didnt hear you mention loose wires around the flight controller. A wire vibrating off the board will cause the flight controller to glitch. I don't know if voltage in the wires will also cause it. Ohh. And the antenna mount. If your antenna wobbles, attl do donkey, attl do.

[@mrgofficialchannel]

hi jos, can u help me doc? my quad have a noise/some vibrate,just 1 second vibrate every 10sec..am using dys f4 pro v2 for fc, littebee spring 30a esc, and t-motor 2750kv. please help me if there any solution setting from betaflight jos. sorry my english too bad

[@parkinsonpid9354]

doing my best here guys :))) ahahah

[@lostandakimbo8138]

I know this has nothing to do with this video, but how would I go about lubing my Taranis radio throttle stick cause it has gotten sticky

[@feliciano1358]

So I am having a lot of issues similar to this issue just a lot more severe. I cant even hover. if I could send you a video and if you could help that would be great. Oh I am running you JB FC V2.1 with a brand new build.

[@lucameggiorini99]

Dear Joshua thanks for ur all viedos.. They help my a lot❤️ i ve just a question about this noise.. Is possible that if i put an FC on a magnetic source (as a tray with magnet for screws etc.) damages the gyro?? And make like this noise when i drive my drone.. Or warse? I hope that you ll have time to help me! Thanks a lot🙏🙏

[@JoshuaBardwell]

A magnet won't damage your FC.

[@1rondark]

Yes, I do learn something...

[@_NFE]

So after you soft mounted, it looked like the noise issue was fixed but you then developed a new problem of poor prop wash handling right... Since soft mounting is basically equivalent to just adding a random software filter with unknown cut frequency and unknown latency... it really looks like a latency issue from over filtering. Why not go for a more extreme reduction on software filtering at that point to address the latency in the soft mount? I've seen soft mounts cause that poor prop wash handling quite often.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I disagree that the problem was handled. You can hear the noise in the motors even when flying straight.

[@_NFE]

I'll take your word on that... it's hard to discern such a subtlety on a cell phone KZbin video. But an over filtered gyro with either software or physical soft mount would certainly introduce an audible response in throttle too. I would expect that it would be more consistent than random accumulatuons of noise. I just couldn't tell from the video which it was. Good video and nice work! I still feel like soft mounting while often effective is the equivalent of set_random_unknown_lpf=ON. It's quite a wild card in a system that we attempt to adjust with such precision. How about some sort of experiment to measure the frequency response and phase shift of common soft mounts? I'd be curious to see an example of some data on what we are actually accomplishing.

[@TheDarkstar826]

I'm having a major issue with my quads. They both brandnew but I get oscillation when the D-pitch is around 15 to 30. I have to have it at zero,so the d-pitch oscillation is gone. What is crazy about this... Roll is doing fine. I dont get it. My P pitch is 70, I is 40 and D is 0 now. I have a Gopro on my quads. This all happen when i switch my motors to DYS Shu 2500 KV. Also, the motors are fine when I test it out on betaflight.

[@garrettalvarez2335]

Keep up the good work 😎

[@xbhavior]

Thanks jb, when using black box can you adjust PIDS can you see what would happen or do you need to Refly and adjust accordingly?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

You need to refly.

[@xbhavior]

Joshua Bardwell thanks - maybe suggest to the your mates the devs for this. Like editing a photo with white balance and colour wavelengths

[@MattiaChiarelli]

Nice video as always! I'm having similar problems on a build where I went from 5 inches to 6 inches, I found that the props size have a big impact on the noise of the system I have two questions: - I've always said to my subscribers to buy the low ear capacitors and, as you also said, to check for the 105° label. Someone told me that the ° rating is not relevant so I wanted to ask if that is true - What was the flight controller you had to get rid of? Thanks for your time!

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I have been told that 105 degree caps are basically always low-ESR. I've assumed it's true but I guess I never verified it. The FC was Matek F722 but I don't want to give it a bad name as many people are flying it with no problem. I think I just got unlucky.

[@MattiaChiarelli]

Joshua Bardwell thanks for the reply!! I think is the reviewer curse

[@Ka0sNite]

If the 6" prop is a Bi blade, try a Tri blade.

[@MattiaChiarelli]

Ka0sFPV thanks! I'm already on triblades, dal 6040 I'll try a different set!

I am selling capacitors for years. 105°C capacitors are not always low ESR. 105°C capacitors are modern and they are used in power boards for electronics (TV's, DVD's, Satellite's, PC power supply's - all electronics) because they last much longer (500-2000 hours) in hot enviroments (power boards generate heat) than 85°C capacitors. Low ESR capacitors are better than ordinary 105°C capacitors becauese they has lower internal resistance, generate less heat and last longer than ordinary 105°C non-low ESR (2000-10000 hours). Sorry for my bad English :-)

[@tdubfpv3380]

My quad randomly tweaks to 1200deg/s on roll gyro when doing a snap roll....my rates are at 600deg/s, it violently jerks quad into maneuver and then its fine on next roll?? Im thinking my fc may be bad although its brand new...succex twin g f7

[@ChenDavidTso]

Hi, Joshua Bardwell What temperature do you think is normal for motor? My motors usually are 60~70 Celsius degree, is it too high for motor? or it is regular.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

That's in the edge I think. Especially if you're just hovering and cruising.

[@kkrampus]

What was the flight controller? Also I had a similar issue (though it was more just garbage data 90% of the time) on a kakute v2 and it was fixed by reflashing the fc. I still have no clue on what caused it at first but its gone now so I'm happy

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Matek F722

[@MCsCreations]

What about softmounting the motors? Is it still relevant?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

As relevant as it ever was.

[@Aharonprat]

thanks for this video Joshua. I have a scenario (with matek f405-ctr) when in INAV i have serious yaw twitches from the gyro, making the motors heat up real fast. While with BF installed on the same setup, the quad flies well (well enough with zero tuning). I have soft mounts and a capacitor on a 4-in-1 ESC. any idea would be appreciated. thanks!

[@nandakoryaaa1401]

I know I'm late but the problem is Yaw P too high

[@PIDtoolbox]

the fact that the glitch was specific to yaw suggests it is not electrical or mechanical noise per se, otherwise it would be visible on roll and pitch gyros, especially since d gains are typically set much higher on those axes making them more prone to such noise. Im inclined to think bad gyro/FC.

[@MrStevegibb]

Erm the 32khz gyros are notorios for having yaw glitch issues it seems the yaw axis on these imu's are much more sensitive

[@rahulswaminathan3811]

An out of balance rotor spinning causes vibrations along the plane of rotation, which in the case of a quadcopter corresponds to the yaw axis! So this actually strongly implies that there is excessive mechanical noise. The pitch and roll axes might be more sensitive to vibrations due to the higher D gains, but we don't have anything to excite the quadcopter about those axes in the first place, since we don't have any rotors that are mounted vertically. Of course, there might be some vibrations in pitch/roll since nothing's perfect, but the amplitude of those vibrations is much smaller than what we would expect in yaw (which is what we see in the bb log). If we had an airplane with vertical propellers, we'd expect to see similar vibrations but in the roll axis this time.

[@PIDtoolbox]

nice hypothesis, but I haven't seen any concrete data to support it. any direct observations I've made have shown that motor imbalance is picked up by all axes.

[@cpwned]

Stupid question. Maybe I’m not understanding bigger concepts, how do I know if it’s noise like in this video versus, too high of P value? My example, I built a fresh 5 inch quad. I entered higher rates than the stock (rock settings which I used in my previous quad). I would put in quick inputs or a roll and it would twitch and crash. I lowered P values. And I loosened the nuts on the soft mounted flight controller thinking, maybe I compressed it too much to negate the soft mounting. I also went back to stock rates. This was my first attempt to try and build a tune and locked in quad. (My first quad I built but left everything stock) but now I’m feeling a little hesitant. Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you!

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Please check this video to see examples of what P term and D term oscillation sound and look like. kzbin.info/aero/PLwoDb7WF6c8mTH6A4HyzPPdX5lsvEwBeA

[@PaneInTheGlass]

wait.. did you ever get that rig out of the tree from a couple of weeks ago? they should have something like "plasma tree" for tuning filters!.. that would be NICE!!

[@JoshuaBardwell]

PlasmaTree can tune filters too.

[@PaneInTheGlass]

whoa nice!

[@vladmirputin7139]

I have this same issue with my chameleon. I'm soft mounted and have capacitors out the ass and I'm using a mpu6000 gyro and it's unflyable. Can I send you the BB to take a look at?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I won't have anything to add beyond what I say in this video, unfortunately.

[@vladmirputin7139]

In the logs my rear right motor is maxed out while the other motors are between 75-85 % . Could that be the source of the problem?

[@tekanobob]

was it a matek F405? with the ribbon thingy ? I had really noisy issues that I tried to tune / filter out yes with no luck. was already soft mounted & low ESR cap. tried various Dshot and multishot no joy unflyable. In the end I rewired FC so no power came off the FC. only 5v in and signals so no RC receiver, LED or Buzzer +- from FC and used power from PDB instead. Fixed !! so smooth now on default PIDS

[@JoshuaBardwell]

No. F722.

[@shenanigan3083]

Thx gummies were smushed down using kakuta f4 twitching like crazy thx lol

[@fpvandgasrc4321]

Great video as always I have a similar problem to yours but with the new KISS V2 flight controller kiss 32 amp ESC and T motor F40 Pro 2 2400 KV. My issue is only when the throttle is at 2000 and I am full throttling to the sky it will shake like there's getting noise into the gyro. Everything is brand new I have one flight on it even tested each motor in the kiss GUI and it seems like the motor is causing all the noise on the graph. I switched to brand new Motors the hype trains and it's still doing the same thing I also have a 25 volt low ESR capacitor on the power lead and have another kiss V2 exactly the same build and it is Rock Solid. Do you think the kiss v2 gyro is messed up please help thanks

[@JoshuaBardwell]

If you have oscillation just at high throttle I think P gains should be reduced.

[@fpvandgasrc4321]

Joshua Bardwell yea there on stock pids.. just at 3 for pitch and roll. Justs tumped

[@DJBlackhawk]

Did you ever get this Chameleon frame flying jitter free? Do you have a follow up video of this frame with new FC? Running 32k!? Jitter free? Im helping a buddy and he has the same exact brand new electronics FC (Softmounted), ESC, MOTOR’s (Softmounted), Props, LiPO, ESR Capacitor, similar weights as me but on a Chameleon frame PID tune slightly different obviously and just can’t shake it! Pun intended! Lol

[@jonsmusicchannel6916]

It's funny but I haven't had this issue with any of my other builds until I used the Chameleon ti frame. Wonder if it's the frame causing this?

[@relentlessburrito]

I just made a fresh build with mb primo 2207 motors on a reverb with the kakute v2 stack. All the latest. Still flies like crap because of all this. Cap, soft mounting...nothing helps. What would be a good fc to switch to if I don't care about cost?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I wish I could tell you an FC that would guarantee good performance. FC with an MPU6000 gyro like my JBF4 may be less susceptible.

[@Solar_Apartment]

how do you distinguish that jitter from the jitter caused by PID tuning, until now i always assumed that high throttle "flutter" was PIDs

[@JoshuaBardwell]

This playlist show examples of P and D oscillation so you can learn to distinguish them from other types of glitch. kzbin.info/aero/PLwoDb7WF6c8mTH6A4HyzPPdX5lsvEwBeA Short version: This isn't flutter. It's not repetitive and cyclical.

[@zacback420]

Can you help me with my tricopter?

[@RockTouching]

Sooo which FC was it?:D

[@Krispykashew]

what do you think lmao

[@egrankins]

probably Matek F405 :D, which was recommended by JB?

[@egrankins]

ups it was F7 but gyro same

[@mrozu1337]

MatekF722

[@Dorkyand40]

who knows..all these new fcs have tons of issues..raddix or helio or nothing for me for now

[@chasedierkes6809]

Man I just got a eachine novice II and one of my motors is so messed up. It makes this weird electric sound and it’s doesn’t respond to controller properly

[@cwtim]

Thanks so much for this one!!~

[@jannesbosma9801]

Nice video! I've been flying my F7 FC on 32khz with icm20608 since the first F7 optimizations in 3.4 in march so all these issue aren't new to me. Can you address the gyro calibration and arming issues on Betaflight 4.3 32 kHz? It's easy to fix by turning some (previous moron) stuff of, increasing delays and calibrating on first arm, but what is the ratio here?

[@JoshuaBardwell]

I don't understand the question, "what is the ratio here".

[@jannesbosma9801]

Joshua Bardwell I mean what do these settings do exactly. What are the risks of not calibrating the gyro (I'm not talking about the accelerometer) or is it risky to fly a quad where the gyro doesn't calibrate with default settings. What is going on with calibration of a 32 kHz gyro that is it so different than an mpu6000? How do I make sense of this? What do I have to do to have a safely calibrated/non calibrated gyro? Sorry I'm not native English. I found the correct word and it's rational. What's the rational of the 32kHz gyros unable to calibrate and changing settings to fix the issue. gyro_calib_duration = 1000 Allowed range: 50 - 3000 Default value: 125 gyro_calib_noise_limit = 0 Allowed range: 0 - 200 Default value: 48 gyro_cal_on_first_arm = ON Allowed values: OFF, ON Default value: OFF Which is quite crude to my idea. I would like to do something more subtle and faster.

[@jbengineering2681]

I have an armattan marmotte new tmotor f90 pro motors new 55 amp esc and new f7 tmotor flightcontroler. Pitch axis is horrible on noise nothing seems to help I don't know what to do not a good flying quad booble on pitch and booble on throttle punches

[@MCsCreations]

BTW, Joshua, I made a comment in a really old video of yours, so you shouldn't be notified. I've been watching your "how to fly a quadcopter" videos (the ones you recorded with FPV Freerider... And, well, I'm having difficulties because of the flight field being so small on Liftoff. (Although I'm really getting better!) So... Is there any simulator with a bigger flying field? Thanks! 😊

[@JoshuaBardwell]

DRL Simulator has huge environments.

[@MCsCreations]

Joshua Bardwell Great, thanks a lot! I'm going to try it! 😀

[@nanonipples5436]

LiftOff is my favorite

[@MCsCreations]

NanoNippy I'm using Liftoff right now. 😊 I did like it a lot, just the small field that bothers me.

[@UnlimitedVertical]

Small flying field on Liftoff? Have you tried the Hannover map?

[@alexdalton7290]

What do we have to do to get a YOUR GONNA FN LEARN SOMETHING TODAY

[@turbojoe2623]

Would there be any benefit in running 2 capacitors on a 4 in 1 esc? I have 2 airbot asgard v2 flight boards and they both have mid to full throttle oscillations. I like the design of the board but im going to have to toss them if i cant get these oscillations to go away.

[@JoshuaBardwell]

If a 1000 uF capacitor doesn't fix it, I doubt 2000 uF will. Mid throttle oscillations are a bitch. If it starts at mid throttle and continues to full throttle, then it could just be your P gain is too high.

[@sunoncream1118]

Joshua why are u using friction example for wath happen inside the motor..

[@JoshuaBardwell]

Friction is a good analogy for what happens. The electrical energy moves inside the coils but it is not translated to mechanical energy (movement of the rotor) so it turns to heat instead.

[@sunoncream1118]

Joshua Bardwell can i said i think ur example is more relevant to describe what happend to metal pot on induction plate. For wath we hear motors are actually speeding up and down rpm. I preferd said the controler is asking power and break at a chaotik frequency and as same for exess D gain brake is applied fir nothing usefull.. speed up 20ms brake 10ms speed up etc.. the kwad fly on fast overshoot and appliy brake always and too much. Ure right saying energy is dissipated but think its mecanical power of bell and prop inertia that give heat.. if u ask brake thats because u had ask too much power d this power goes somewhere.. shorted as heat

[@LuckyRotorsFPV]

Mr. Miyagi was realy awesome 👍

[@shahrc1]

I have a micro quad, that have inconsistent momentarily motor jitters. Running beta flight 4.1.1, any comments, thanks

[@alexandrpanov9110]

When I touch any of the stick, my quad begin flying to space. Only disarm helps. I can not find a reason what to fix. May be some one will help?

[@RichBeaden]

Broken standoffs or poorly mounted fc are the single biggest cause of this issue bar none. Don't change the fc change how you mount it. Also if your having to put caps in your fc then bin it because its junk

[@lukasdedic7614]

2:34 this should be a meme