Hazing And Black Colleges: Is The Practice Of Hazing More Prevalent At HBCUs?

[@Pharoe29]

One who stands for nothing will fall for anything. Those who stand for themselves in a respectful manner will feel no need to allow physical violence to be placed upon them in the name of acceptance into an organization that honestly could care less about them. Brother/Sisterhood doesn't equate to intra-organizational violence.

[@Bownorwu06]

As a proud Alpha man, I believe A man/woman is selected for the Divine Nine based on his/her character, scholarship, fellowship and devotion to the cause and how it lines up with the ideals of the organization. A man should be tested (pledging) to prove his character but bestiality (hazing) does not prove character but illustrates inhumanity. It is not about how one gets into the organization but what he does after he gets in. Service extends beyond college life and wearing the colors.

[@closgreen70]

Anthony Walker good post great points are made

[@jspencer250]

Well written 👌🏾 ΚΑΨ Fall 99

[@BoldenFMA]

Never understood the whole hazing thing. I think these dudes have serious "issues" that they're wresling with. As much hell as we've caught in this country and you want to beat, brand and humiliate your brother?

[@jspencer250]

"Never Understood"..... there goes your first problem!

[@ccharlie05]

I think the Anti-hazing act should be a FEDERAL LAW!!!!! that is all!!!!!

[@thar7347]

How could you beat, humiliate your brothers & and sisters, & then turn around & and call them your brother!! This is Just modern day slavery.

[@mellodees3663]

This really isn't JUST a black problem. If you think of it it's a human one. The ones with power over those that don't.

[@treydatruth1285]

Roland is right on this one.....this problem is wide spread...dont think for one minute that this is exclusive to hbcu.....this is a wide spread problem.....

[@ms.birmingham5220]

Larry Hinton It's probably worse at PWI's because they want to prove to the counterparts at HBCUs they were "made" right.

[@TheColalpha12]

Thats why youva kappa do some research white frats have killed more than the blacks

[@Von.NorthEnd]

@@ms.birmingham5220 nah its not. At pwi's the numbers are so low that they are more desperate for members.

[@eddiefrancis06]

This is a good conversation and it has to continue. Ever since this debate there have been two hazing deaths (that I know of) in white fraternities at two different schools. I believe that people in Greek-letter organizations, bands, auxiliary groups, etc. who USED TO believe in hazing should speak out about why they no longer believe in it. I used to be one of them and leadership has shown me that hazing doesn't guarantee anything but problems for families and our organizations.

[@cem7387]

right on... right on!!!

[@1911sFINEST]

Wow, I applaud Roland's "bold" stance taken during his pledge days! I was MADE at an HBCU & visited many other yards at the time. The Ques & KAPPAS (many of whom were athletes) most definitely "got down". They made no bones about it and aspirants knew the deal going in. This was during the late 80's and things were quite "physical" then. The KAPPAS held most high SGA posts, thus "ran the yard" generally speaking. Positions such as Roland's were very rare back then, yet must have taken courage.

[@kishijohnson9943]

1911sFINEST I think hazing is the dumbest thing ever. I don’t need to be MADE!! In order to be apart of an organization that claims to be founded on brotherhood and service.

[@dragonsoldier1994]

This is a very good conversation. From the outside looking in, they both make a good point, which is, hazing is a problem that need to be addressed. Whether it's an HBCU or PWI, it's an issue.

[@Bownorwu06]

Over sixty years ago, great men of Alpha described hazing as "hooliganisms unworthy of college trained men who lay claim to be civilized". The future of the Divine Nine and such organizations are at risk of extinction if we lose sight of the principles upon which they were established. We all have work to do. The ideals of the Talented Tenth are still alive. Be Blessed

[@dcplyr]

And a Morehouse pledged your over glamorized rho chapter died during the pledge process.

[@garystephens1517]

I agree with the brother!!! It won't stop: it will never stop!!

[@prepschoolkid]

"All 9 organizations in the National Panhellenic Council are Non hazing organizations" Bullshit. On paper they are non hazing organizations, but the reality is different. I think pledging should exist but it should be out in the open and regulated. If it's out in the open people can be held accountable. Beating pledges and causing injury and death is really pointless. It's just another exam of young black people being violent towards each other. Doesn't really help advance our people at all!

[@Nupesohard]

I agree with Roland, actually. It's a problem across the board, not just at HBCUs.

[@malikaharper23]

That guy sounds crazy. It’s not only an issue among BGLO’s it happens a whole lot if not more in Panhellenic organizations.

[@rcmathis05]

Thank God For Roland Martin The Hazer and the Hazee are BOTH RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS and should Be Dealt with equally.

[@Deerych]

This was good dialogue and one of the few times that Roland engaged the conversation well.

[@diamond911911]

We talked about the issue of Hazing on Black Greeks Speak. we posted the discussion on youtube..We decided to take a different perspective on the issue. Let us know what you think

[@antoniomontgomery859]

So your willing to go through a hazing process/pledging process but not willing to serve your country. This would be a different convo if our military men/women went through such processes

[@TheColalpha12]

They haze in the Military

[@cocoxoxoxo7881]

They do haze in the military.

[@tompalmer6895]

people haze at every school high, middle, and even elementary.its not a white or black thing its a people thing and everyone wants to feel like they are loved and belong to a family. I was hazed in high school band program and in college. I knew what to expect before I got there and I decided to go along with it. The same people who are speaking out to about the hazing have participated and secretly they want group to continue because if you go throu a hbcu pledge u went thro a lot now u luv it

[@akahoneydip]

Why is this man scapegoating HBCUs and black organizations? Dude please, I hear about deaths because of hazing at PWI's by PWO's all the time....so why is he saying that it's mainly black schools and organizations? Heck Miami University (Ohio) is investigating 12 Greek letter organizations right now....most, if not all, of these organizations are predominantly white. Not to mention the incidents involving the band at Ohio State University. No one was killed but it was still detrimental to those on the receiving end of the hazing. Don't just single out HBCUs....fight against hazing across the board. I'm not understanding where his attack on black folks is coming from. I'm trying to figure out if he's just extremely misled or if he's a sellout ie. Stacy Dash....just trying to throw us under the bus. Anytime someone is hurt or losses their life due to hazing the perpetrators should be held accountable....jail, expulsion from school and/or expulsion from organization, etc. Roland is right we have to take a hard stance against hazing otherwise we're in danger of losing ALL of our collegiate fraternities, sororities, auxiliary groups, bands, etc.

[@iayyam]

is giving or taking wood really necessary in order to help others across the burning sands?

[@rexscipio3344]

The liberals are just as racist as conservatives.

[@MusicFilmArtLover]

Hazing became illegal in 1983. Rolland skated. LOL No seriously, the founders did not pledge so who can tell me when pledging begin? Did the founders pledge the new people who came in after them? Let's take the Deltas as an example. This sorority was build on service and activism. Where did they inject hazing and why was it necessary? Did they use a pattle? I can't imagine those very high class dignified women hazing anyone to be a part of their organization. I think they need to bring back pledging and teach people the difference between pledging and hazing. If pledging was brought back, it will take a way a lof of hazing. As for Roland...you are funny. This man researched over 20 about the black greeks why would you try to discredit his findings?

[@turntableone4356]

You know some of the founding members of these organizations like DST were actually still living back in the 80s and 90s and would be interested in their opinion about hazing....wonder if there are any videos of them on this subject matter.

[@kettlebellkyle311]

The hazing isn't worse just different the white frats will make you drink or do gay things like the elephant walk , while the black frats will be more physical like paddling and exercise while screaming at you.

[@MCWAY1]

Both men nailed it on the head. HBCU bands get as much stroke as/more stroke than the football players. Thus, hazing is way more prevalent at our schools. As Dr. Jones stated, most hazing at PWIs involves white guys doing stupid crap, usually fueled by too much liquor (i.e. getting dumped in a graveyard in a chicken suit & having to make it back on campus while clucking) vs. HBCU hazing where guys are getting their a---es whipped (literally, in some cases) by their would-be peers.

[@756Attitude]

I never saw this....good commentary Bro. Martin

[@tjgigger]

I know this is a year old, but I ran across this while watching other videos. I get your point, and actually agree with it. However, you then get into the issue of what is the definition and what others perceive as hazing.

[@jlegiste5]

@MrTsandifer He is not being racist at all. As a member of a BGLO, I agree with both sides. But the Kappa makes a very interesting point. There is no way to stop it at all. I go to a PWI and the level of brutality is much higher to pledge for a BGLO. When people die, you can't justify a process.

[@TheMdterp]

While I do think disbanding the organizations as a whole is too much, I agree more with Ricky Jones than Roland Martin. Mr. Jones stated that he was not saying hazing doesn't occur at predominantly white universities. The point that he was making (WHICH IS A TRUE ONE) is that the level of PHYSICAL hazing is much more severe amongst black fraternities. I went to Florida A&M before transferring to Univ of MD College Park and saw the difference. Ricky Jones is correct. Its worse at HBCUs

[@ManoftheDove]

Roland, I love you bro but you're wrong on this issue. Prof Jones is right.

[@iam_kennybiggs]

As long as hazing has a purpose I am cool with it. The problem is that some of these organizations go to damn far and it could hurt someone in the long one. FYI: I am masonic brother

[@MajorMajesticIce]

SMIB!

[@thelastdom]

SMIB

[@alberthull7579]

SMIB!

[@notthefather3919]

Kenny Biggs a purpose?

[@iconlb]

Some people dont have the mental capacity to separate pledging, hazing, and straight up non sense. Everyone wants to out do the next person and make their "line" better. The paper vs. real crap need to disappear b/c at the end of the day we are still brothers and sisters. Remember the real process starts after you become a member.

[@0812marchingram]

No, it doesn't go like that. Noone loses their scholarship if they don't go through whatever to be accepted. You lose your scholarship only if you don't abide by the rules such as attending class and practice, making the right grades, etc. If you don't go through hell to be part of somethingl, that's fine. Your financial aid from the band would not be in jeopardy if you don't do it. You are awarded on your ability to play, not on acceptance from an org. Im a band member at an HBCU by the way.

[@J20cole]

@ThetaPhi9klub TOTALLY AGREE with you there is nothing wrong with knowing vital information about your org.. such as past president, what rules each president came up with what happen at certain convention, that's PLEDGING, getting your ass beat in a basement for 5 or more hours cause you didn't spit Invictus or Don't quit correct or fast enough has nothing to do with the founders of these orgs, that's HAZING..and that is why there is division in sooo many chapters

[@desMCD80]

Prof. Jones should've spoke on that fact that black frats where band at UofL for hazing in 90's. Its not only at HBCU

[@treydatruth1285]

But the point the other brother is making....we need to start doing away with the culture...

[@richbrass12]

If you're looking at this video and upset about the fact that the Kappa dude is talking about hbcus being worse than pwi's then you are looking at semantics versus the bigger issue. The real issue is how does an organization get rid of hazing? I've asked this question so many times, what do the actual Founders in these organizations think about hazing? Realize these Founders were young men and women who went to school in the early 1900's. That means most of their grandparents where slaves. So to think someone thinks it is a great idea to beat up somebody else's kid makes absolutely no damn sense. Is the other question I'm thinking, these people who participate in hazing these prospected members are preachers, deacons, teachers, and parents. How in the hell would they talk about Injustice has and being mistreated by the police but then they're laying hands on our own people? Like how do we as a society approve of this s***?

[@prepschoolkid]

@WEllis9 Humans are social animals, don't underestimate the desire to belong to a group that is what our brains are wired to do. We all feel the need to belong somewhere. For some people that is fraternity or sorority. That certainly does not excuse their behavior but don't underestimate the human desire to want to belong with something. That often overpowers rational thought.

[@KristianThomasOfficial]

Both sides do have good points. Not all groups such as bands, fraternities, and sororities haze people, but it's more prevalent at HBCUs & PWIs. Also, ignorance and stupidity is not a "Black" thing, or a racial thing. It is merely a generational matter.

[@wilsonmack6308]

How can a member of a fraternity sit there and say they need to "Disband" these organizations. His frat already got caught in Florida, does he think his frat should be disbanded? Sounds like there is no loyalty in his heart to his org.

[@ms.birmingham5220]

Wilson Mack That's what I thought.

[@RiahJ]

@24kane Right, but that isn't the point. He still posed in a picture with other members of A Phi A, and threw up their hand sign. I believe it is to this instance that @sofisticatedstudios was referring, and to which I was replying.

[@Bownorwu06]

A man/woman is selected for the Divine Nine based on his/her character, scholarship, fellowship and devotion to the cause and how it lines up with the ideals of the organization. A man should be tested(pledging) to prove his character but beastiality (hazing) does not prove character but illustrates inhumanity. It is not about how one gets into the organization but what he does after he gets in.

[@faireststarr]

@LikeMyStyle01 - please don't ASSume what I'm saying, because that is NOT what I'm saying. I think that ostracizing members for not getting beaten is silly. HOWEVER, when someone can go through the initiation, take their oath, and turn around and advocate for the dissolution of something they are a part of, that shows that they have NO LOVE for their organization. And it's amazing that THAT one thing is what you picked out of all the other great points that I made.

[@mrdrummajor98]

I am sorry. I am a strong proponent of pledging. Not hazing. Get rid of the folks who push pledging into hazing. But by all means, I am better today because I got pledged!!!

[@yaboi04]

I really lose respect for people who always try and put black people own by saying this problem is a black problem...obviously it is not just a black issue.

[@knight7se7en]

Completely agree with Roland Martin, totally disagree with Ricky Jones. The solution is not breaking up HBGLO's and the problem is more concentrated at HBCU's.

[@jacksimpson9278]

Morpheus

[@iayyam]

Respectfully, how does one disband these Black Greek organizations that have been around for over one hundred years?

[@derricklanders1205]

iayyam They revoke the group's Charter at that campus or school.

[@BlackSunsu]

To be honest about the Matter, the Rites of Passage is very much alive and well in all aspects of human activity. If one's a Martial Artist and s / he is going through a Black Belt test for Example, that person will go through the Regiments of that test unless the matters are altered by the Instructors. Hazing isn't the Black folks fault [Black is an adjective same as White], it's everybody's fault when an Joker decides to be extreme and break the Law. That goes for everybody, straight up real!

[@WildL23]

@GoldenPoetess22 This is besides the point though because nobody is accusing anybody of forcing people to join. People are saying you should not have to be hazed to join. And as it stands you do in fact have to be hazed to get in. So do you have anything to say about this tradition where you have to be hazed to get in? Should it continue or should it end?

[@ThetaPhi9klub]

What people fail to realize is that there is a HUGE difference between PLEDGING and HAZING...pledging ain't dead these other bruhs just scared

[@moneybgs15]

People know the reputation of fraternities aka how they haze... and yet people still want to join. If they know in advance what they are in for, why should it be illegal? I am not saying hazing is okay, but if people are willing to join knowing that hazing happens in the Greek Community... why should it be illegal (as long as no one dies/gets injured)?

[@fidget2003]

@sofisticatedstudios Believe it or not, a lot of people actually go to college to get their education not just to pledge. It's during their years in college that they see something they like and decide they want to pledge an organization. Organizations on predominantly black and predominantly white campuses have many similarities. I have attended both types of universities and saw the same culture/mentality. However, I do not agree with those orgs being called gangs.

[@doctorken2k]

It is not a black thing. I go to an equally both school and I hear it from both sides. Even the other races.

[@frankieallen6727]

com on my friend,the name calling is not necessary. I was hazed,beatdown,won't name the org,but it was a part of the culture. Don't agree with it now,don't make me soft my friend.

[@westlake08]

i want to see the rest of this that Roland guy has it right that other guy is just stupid....

[@RiahJ]

@sofisticatedstudios Let's get rid of athletics, honor societies, bands (of all types) and all other extra curricular activities that might be the reason a person decides to go to college, or a specific college. In fact, let's just have only one major, because if someone is only going to school to study music, architecture, chemistry (or any other thing we decide is a waste of time) - they shouldn't go there. Let college only be for those whose sole pursuit is the attainment of general knowledge

[@ProverbTribune]

Did he seriously argue that point? Here's what I'm hearing from Rickey Jones: Organizations as historically significant as fraternities which are mostly founded on principals of scholarship, kinship and service to communities should be disbanded because of the fact that laws and rules put in place aren't effective in shifting the culture of these organizations. This is an erroneous demonstration of misguided frustration. I blame his dean.

[@MCWAY1]

(con't) Lest we aslo forget, for many kids in HBCU bands, THAT IS THEIR ONLY TICKET TO A COLLEGE EDUCATION and out of the 'hood/sticks. I'm a proud Rattler, who got a full-ride academic scholarship. Had I decided to pledge and seen any hazing, my reaction would have been "Duck Fat", and I would have bolted. But, I'd still be in school, getting my education. But, for some of these band kids, if they don't go with the flow, they could be GONE. No 100, no education....GAME OVER!!!

[@24kane]

@RiahJ Waka Flaka didn't finish High School, so there is no way he attended college.

[@WildL23]

@GoldenPoetess22 The question is not whether you can say no the question is can you say no and still get into the organization? If you want to get into the organization then you can't say no right? SMH.

[@2coolfrom93rd]

WTF how the hell they want to get rid of HBCU bands Im a current member of an HBCU band and the reason for me and most other students to really go to college in not because of some dame major but most of the time they just want to MARCH in a real HBCU!!!! The reason im at the school im at now is because of my band!!!!!

[@drummajor101]

Are we looking at the death of HBCU marching bands?

[@thedarktower79]

Roland Martin has a big head. ^_^

[@TereancePuryear]

Prof. Ricky Jones sounds like Uncle Rukus....hazing is bigger than HBCU's and BLGO's. I'm questioning this guys education, "process" and intent. He is seriously making this a racial matter and it's not.

[@jlegiste5]

@CompleteRationality When you really think about, it is the only solution to the problem. Policies, training, or whatever you want to implement have not and will not work.

[@RiahJ]

@sofisticatedstudios Waka Flaka is not an Alpha. He just posed in the picture...which was tacky.

[@LikeMyStyle01]

@faireststarr I wouldn't be surprised if you were part of a greek letter organization. Why? Because you exhibited the same behavior Roland Martin referred too when he talked about how peer pressure is the main reason this behavior continues. By calling the professor "paper" you're basically saying that if you don't go through the same hazing that I did I do not look at you the same. Maybe the Professor is the mature one here by saying, I will accept you as a member of AKPsi without hazing.

[@eliasloredoHTX]

no one makes you do anything......plus u cant put the blame on one group it takes the quote on quote "hazer" and the "hazee" if u want to be real about it...that kappa dude does not know what he is really talking about....he is just trying to place the blame on HBCU's to make himself appear smart...smh

[@dcplyr]

All wood! No paper! GAMMA PHI!

[@terucks]

@RiahJ I know most of the A-Phi-A members wish they beat up the other members who let that dude use that sign.

[@antoniomontgomery859]

I dropped Alpha Phi Alpha for the Hazing B.S. .. Mind you I was 25 and had already did 13months in Iraq. Taking wood???? When my own Mom or pops never hit me with anything harder than a Switch. Might have got a punch in the chest or neck grabbed here or there lol. But not worth it. They had these fools act out characters from the "Fresh Prince" show. ... Half the brothers who came to the interested meeting weren't invited to be on the line. They didn't fit the ideal of Alpha. Crazy thing is these are young adults kids practically 19-23 deciding who's has this quality. But when quite few of the Alpha's already had kids still in school, etc.. I got another story I got a good friend who is alpha he came up to CIAA I Charlotte. I hung out w his alpha brothers. We uptown we walked right passed a brother wearing his letters. They didn't say one fucking word. 5 alphas.. Guess they thought he looked funny. One dude said, I dont know that nigga true story.

[@derricklanders1205]

Antonio Montgomery 😣😣😣😣

[@thedarktower79]

All of what these guys are saying boils down to one word: tribalism.

[@chardonnayanonymous7684]

that man was right if you get rid black organization there want be no more hazing so the reason why Ronald disagree because his ass probably been hazing

[@ms.birmingham5220]

Chardonnay Anonymous The Masons/Eastern Stars haze, so does the band, football team, hell even freshmen get hazed by upperclassmen! The list goes on and on. I guess you need to disband HBCU's.

[@ms.birmingham5220]

Roland lying. He didn't cross in 89 and didn't take wood.

[@greenhornet8262]

Queenofbees 42 he said he didn't take wood in the video

[@YungBrilTV]

Kappas don't go through hazing... But I'm a Nupe.. And that's a dying breed unfortunately... All the Nupes in the house say Yo!

[@dcplyr]

The illustrious Elder Watson Diggs is not proud of how some have Demonized the frat.

[@dcplyr]

BTW; Nupes are Born.

[@youngin07udig]

Slavery all over again slave owners brand there slaves they beat their slaves and they humiliate them u mean to tell me u have to beat me embarass me and basically belittle me to call me your brother?

[@sophisticated1920]

Thank you Roland! This Kappa is ignorant & should NOT be a Pan-African professor at anyone's university... His lack of knowledge & understanding of the topic disturbs me!

[@jthemighty7634]

Hold up, you didn't take any wood?

[@gaspayanga5982]

So we know Roland process wasn't a real process

[@lawrencejones9880]

Wrong Roland!

[@JAREDAPE422]

Waka Flaka isn't an Alpha....

[@thegreatone773]

Any person that will allow themselves to be hazed are lame.

[@Gypsyman40]

🐱

[@jlegiste5]

@ThetaPhi9klub As someone who has gone through a process. Its all the same. "Everything has a reason" and that talk is non-sense.

[@conqueror2001]

DISBAND THE DIVINE 9!!!

[@user-eq9pk3fh7p]

The paper dude, always playing his symbol and "Life Membership". Paper Martin!

[@iayyam]

there you go

[@kiwash18]

add you are part of the problem. right there.

[@lilwilly07]

Sound stupid as hell

[@dcplyr]

The problem is you

[@raydrussell]

Roland Martin is kat. (Paper)

[@Mick3ydoll]

You're Cat.

[@Csmooth69]

@drummajor101 I can't say that yet. I would say however a lot of band programs will be tightening the microscopes and will probably doing away with section names, freshman rituals etc. because now its gonna be a liability a program doesn't need. And its unfortunate that it had to come down to this.

[@prepschoolkid]

"All 9 organizations in the National Panhellenic Council are Non hazing organizations" Bullshit. On paper they are non hazing organizations, but the reality is different. I think pledging should exist but it should be out in the open and regulated. If it's out in the open people can be held accountable. Beating pledges and causing injury and death is really pointless. It's just another exam of young black people being violent towards each other. Doesn't really help advance our people at all!

[@lawrencejones9880]

Wrong Roland!