He Exposed a Cheating Speedrunner...

I made a snapchat, apollo_legend
Follow wq:
/ wqqqqwrt
/ wqqqqwrt
/ wqqqqwrt
Subscribe ➢ kzbin.info...
Twitter ➢ / apollo_legend_
Facebook ➢ / apollolegendspeedruns
DLive ➢ dlive.tv/apollolegend

[@ApolloLegend]

Let's help wq break 3k subs kzbin.info

[@Dyegreenluke]

ok bro

[@Gio-ri9tr]

I'm the 3,000th sub yay

[@cragnorthegoblinking4269]

Okay.

[@stevefox1200]

He seems toxic as hell with the "culture war" shit

[@TallyMark]

That’s bullshit people want to have hand cams. I work 12-15 hour days, get off work and want to play games. I don’t have any time to get a set up like that or even learn to sync it all up. I don’t even have a pc. HOW TF WOULD I EVEN BE ABLE TO DO THAT?

[@justas423]

The problem with referees is that they can lie. Hand cams are a simple yet effective solution to this problem.

[@Arkatox]

Referees definitely can lie. Case in point: The Todd Rogers and Billy Mitchell situations.

[@EvilAng3la]

Surprising that this video would even suggest using referees given how badly they worked out for Twin Galaxies. There's a reason TG has gone to requiring video and not accepting referees anymore.

[@lpfan4491]

come on,we can really trust referees. dont you remember when one gave the donkeykong runner who played on mame gas and let him start runs in second gear?

[@organicdinosaur5259]

You think that would solve the problem? lol Naw, wait until these dudes start matching the movements and splicing the cam footage in.

[@tomenza]

@@organicdinosaur5259 We need to build speedrunners a massive, preferably brutalist, facility, lock them each into solitary confinement, restrict their internet access, give them each a standardized computer that all match in specs, and install live CCTV cameras that record everything. We will force the bastard cheaters to submit to the regime of honesty.

[@maxmoefoePokemon]

Hand cam should 100% be added to requirements in todays climate for proper non disputed leader-boards.

[@Alcanik]

Pokemon TCG box opening speedrun when?

[@p529.]

What a coincidence, just watched a video of yours.

[@BigBahss]

Brooooo what are you doing here, you should be editing those Japan vlogs.

[@dotfoxtom5942]

Huh, Didn't know you were into speed running max, learn something new everyday I suppose.

[@Chizzle69420]

hi dad

[@Ronal_d]

When you said he used a voice changer to pretent to be a girl i burst out laughing. thats some funny shit

[@ZVLIAN]

Send vid of it

[@hatsunemiku-fu8jg]

the more i watch speedrunning videos the more it seems a LOT of the people that arent established names or twitch personalities or whatever are very very very strange

[@3ftninja132]

We NEED video of this.

[@mattakastarkill3r402]

That's how I catfish lesbians

[@heavygunner4039]

@@mattakastarkill3r402 ಠ_ಠ

[@BoredPodcaster]

Coming back to watch some older content. Your fans really miss you Apollo. Wish you were still around to make more great vids. RIP you legend.

[@FizzleFX]

I beat Zelda in 10 minute's flat. And no, you can not see it!

[@coreycabral1458]

Miguel Sanchez 10/10 comment, would read again

[@yumekojabami7408]

I beat pokemon emerald in two minutes flat and no one can see it

[@sowelichemlatu1789]

people have beaten that now lol

[@FizzleFX]

@@sowelichemlatu1789 That's why i uploaded another run, its a lot faster, beats the 'current record' by 3 seconds... Where i uploaded? PFf! what a dirty accusing question... you have to find the site yourself! I am not rewarding such a verbal assault :p

[@sowelichemlatu1789]

Miguel Sanchez honestly i dont know how to respond to this

[@kayrusik8851]

Just here paying respects to an absolute legend…

[@thesparxeffect9734]

Never forgotten Apollo, you are never forgotten.

[@Eidoridori]

He passed away??

[@luminator982]

@@Eidoridori He got sued so hard by Billy Mitchel (corrct me if I'm wrong) that the poor soul took his own life.

[@horrowwatcher]

@@luminator982 To be honest,i wouldn't be surprised,fuck Billy Mitchell. Should be him in the ground,not this absolute legend Apollo.

[@jraymond1988]

@@luminator982 Also the drama with that Australian speedrunner and EZScape didn't help.

[@obvfw]

My question is, why *haven't* handcams become standard?

[@Danc3R4ve]

Because most people have shitty $7 webcams that record at powerpoint presentation speed, don't want to be seen on video or are simply influenced by the bandwagon. Japan is long since known for innovating in the area of technology while the rest of the world is a few steps behind. Not that I mind though, I'd rather just be able to record a run and post it rather than people shout at me about my lack of proof. I'm one of the few who don't fall in either category.

[@SincradTB]

@@Danc3R4ve Silmple solution, VR. Emulating your hands. Perfect idea. Solves the "Not wanting to show their face" problem. Yes, this is a joke.

[@jasonmiller2379]

@@SincradTB we're a bit off being able to do something like that reliably. vr tech is still somewhat new, give it 5-10 years for it to go crazy...by that point we should be into full dive tech

[@goodguyguan3412]

@@SincradTB even simpler solution, use a phone. Like legit no technological whatever just the smart phone in your hand, set up so it records the screen and hands.

[@SincradTB]

@@goodguyguan3412 Genius

[@Stickyz]

Handcams are near impossible to fake. I think that alone would fix these problems. Too bad that people like that exist but this is why we have rules in the world.

[@joeyghostx]

Handcams, like recording your hands for the recording? As long as they accept low quality cams maybe, but some computers tend to crash with the high end games for speed runs if used with a camera and a capture for PC runs.

[@THENAMEISQUICKMAN]

tbh i speedrun casually and never submit times, but that would absolutely kill my desire to ever do so because if they're gonna make handcams mandatory, any long run where you might need to adjust your seating positioning or something like that could mess it up

[@panikk2]

@@THENAMEISQUICKMAN if you're speedrunning at a top 100 level and can afford all the other equipment there is no reasonable excuse a 30 dollar camera can't be pointed generally within view of your hands. You don't even need a separate camera. You can turn a c920 vertically and still have everything captured. The pros outweigh. If you're running casually then who cares. There's literally no one stopping you. If an ounce of proof is too big of a barrier than boo hoo. Every other competitive event requires you to be seen while you do it

[@deaththekid922]

@@THENAMEISQUICKMAN agreed it makes it harder, if i want to speedrun sonic unleashed i can stream from xbone s to my pc and run geforce shadowplay to record it, before I had that i would just record with a game capture without splits, imo speedruns should be accessible, not super hard and expensive to get into, handcam requirement would be the opposite of that maybe require it for a top 10 mario bros any% run but for any speedrun thats not few frame improvements its not needed, i would love to run something like batman arkham city, but i wouldnt use a handcam if i play that with a keyboard for a few hours Edit, another thing is the fact i used to scratch my arm, i honestly don't want strangers to see that and just sort of be the emo speedrunner, if i switch to facecams and i happen to show my arms its another story than if i had to show them from the start, or wear long gloves for speedrunning

[@jackuin3387]

And even if you're able to game the handcam and replicate the speedrun perfectly, you don't even need to cheat because you can already do it.

[@AcidUsagi]

200 dollar mic during edited vudeos. 2 dollar Wallmart mic during Discord calls Love you buddy

[@R3SerialDreams2]

Discord's base VoIP quality is utter hot garbage compared to TeamSpeak. There is an option to get near TeamSpeak quality VoIP on Discord, but unlike TeamSpeak (whom includes it as part of the program by default), Discord's is locked behind the Nitro paywall.

[@ZulousOG]

@@R3SerialDreams2 its almost funny it hurts! I used ts for years before discord and it was the best voip around. Discord on the other hand is just much better theres no competition and voip doesnt change for nitro uses.

[@selathekobold9832]

@@R3SerialDreams2 Wut? It's always been the complete opposite for me.

[@R3SerialDreams2]

@@selathekobold9832 Sounds like you haven't been on any good TeamSpeak servers.

[@Wyte_Knight]

I used Mumble, TS, and Discord, each time my own server with the best settings I found. I don't understand why ppl keep saying Discord's VOIP is garbage, with the settings of the voice canal maxxed, it's litteraly equal to Mumble, which is a bit better than TS. I use a top tier headset and a Rode Microphone, and I hear other ppl perfectly if they too have a good micro and they hear me perfectly too. Noise suppression on Discord is cool, and when you play with the settings of the voice detection you don't hear sounds in the background when the ppl aren't talking, and same when they are talking with the noise suppression activated. So, yeah, I don't see any problems with Discord. Discord is just better. Btw, Nitro doesn't have any better VOIP quality.

[@misterymisterio8778]

Rest in peace.

[@Akotski-ys9rr]

So that’s why the name Apollo legend sounded familiar

[@earthisadonut7213]

I won't be able to beat any speedrunners but I am of the best at delaying the end of any game

[@Nsfwstar]

Puff noob, take me 10 years to beat alink to the past and dont get me start talking about majora's

[@hayato8452]

@@Nsfwstar REVERSE SPEEDRUN

[@AnonymousGentooman]

@@hayato8452 slowstroll?

[@micahjones1451]

@@hayato8452 Let's make it happen.

[@GeneralGlockasiah]

I finally beat Xenogears in 2015. That game came out in 1998. I've done this with a few games lol

[@Marcara081]

Handcams would be impossible to fake perfectly and it's not a difficult thing to implement AND it works across multiple games and platforms. So yeah, good idea. EDIT: gonna just address this idea that this "...simple solution doesn't exist." Ha ha NO. One word: latency In order to cheat hand-cam footage the latency between button presses and game inputs would have to be perfectly consistent down to the millisecond for the entire duration of the run, depending on the capture rate of the footage (60 FPS as standard). These button presses would also need to be consistent with the game's own latency (3 frames, 2 frames, 5 frames, etc) which varies between games and even between moves within a game. Meaning that one would need to perform acts of physical perfection akin to TAS inputs in real-life in order to fake the hand-cam footage perfectly. This is impossible, therefore a hand-cam at 60fps, preferably with a digital timer in the background (displaying milliseconds) would be unbeatable. The only person who could beat it would be someone capable of 100% consistent TAS inputs. Which by that standard would make them a god-tier runner in any game. MEANING that the only person who could beat such a system would be someone with the necessary physical abilities to run every game to perfection anyway, making the cheating entirely pointless. As for rendering hands in 3D well, no. Hands are the second most difficult things to render in 3D realistically (the first being faces). Animating them is another can of worms and even more impossible to do well enough to fool our eyes. Lighting is less of an issue but still near-impossible. No one can do this yet and if they could they'd be the top of their field in 3D rendering/animation, probably fixing up CG Leia in Star Wars episode 9. So the idea that they'd waste this ability on cheating a speedrun is just silly. Not to mention that this theoretical rendering/animation master would actually be a team of over a dozen people, all masters of their craft. It would also cost thousands of dollars just to render it in HD at 60 FPS, especially for hours long footage; it could even cost more.

[@mathirojust7402]

unfortunately it is not difficult to add a shaking motion to a video with most video editing software, there no is miracle solutions but for there to be people informed on the mains methods of cheating and of the inner workings of the game in questions.

[@NinF37]

3D render an animation of the handcam? Or during a split take hands off of controller to “wipe” on pants and then resume. So many ways it could be cheated

[@TheSaltineAvenger]

@@mathirojust7402 The simple solution to that problem would be - if your handcam is obscured or hard to watch at all, the run doesn't count. It would disqualify some percent of real runs due to technical errors, but it would still be less strict than having to have live referees or only have runs at live events count or something.

[@m347f0x]

@@NinF37 Do you imagine how hard that 3d animation would suck? Also handcam it's not about splicing. It's about accurate inputs that cheaters can't fake.

[@m347f0x]

@@mathirojust7402 Why would you add shaking motion to stationary camera. Also just disqualify anyone with shaky camera. That's all

[@Xapper0]

To be honest, hand cam makes some runs much more fun to watch, so I'm all in for that.

[@SleepyPitou]

true, especially when it comes to runners like halfcoordinated where i am just blown away every time i see him run a game with handcam

[@zyad48]

You should find some handcam Yoshi's Island runs, the number of actions per second you see the high level runners pull is amazing

[@lilwyvern4]

Is that you Kira?

[@mattwroe4776]

Just do both simple someone can sync them when raw footage is released of both

[@Xapper0]

@@mattwroe4776 I was thinking of a stream setting, but I guess that works too

[@krgamer55]

"The thing I want to know is-" *AD COMES IN* "How long has your shoe-"

[@KokoroKatsura]

ever heard of adblock

[@montgomery6562]

Kotonoha Katsura ever heard of mobile users

[@soniceinstein7762]

@@montgomery6562 ever heard of Reddit.

[@montgomery6562]

Sonic Einstein I’d rather have ads than reddit

[@toastWs]

@@KokoroKatsura ever heard of supporting youtubers cus ads are their main source of money most of the time?

[@Corridor3000]

RIP Apollo Legend He left us too soon

[@alexandr623]

what?

[@Sodomizxr]

@@alexandr623 he committed suicide

[@bitchwormpuddin1499]

Huh?

[@alexandr623]

@@Sodomizxr holly sh.t

[@phyokyawkhaing2251]

@@Sodomizxr For real?

[@kbvibin7870]

It would be easier to actually set the world records for these games than it would to fake the handcam for the game.

[@Lo0nex_]

@@jordanallen8420 ???

[@kbvibin7870]

the hell is happening in these comments

[@StayAwayFromMyCat]

@Milotic .h It's a spam bot, it probably caught a whiff of the words "exposed" and "cheating" in the video title.

[@jinkisaragi874]

@stoeger 2 Nah his older brother who is actually himself from the future. Saw that twist comming from a mile away.

[@teemumyyrylainen9247]

That would be incorrect.. what would be nearly impossible to fake would be raw input log + handcam + video feed with audio. from input log you could time every key press to mil second's and compare it to game feed.. input lag tends to be known and really rarely have any changes mid run.. ( over heating of hardware could cause some data loss , but thats super rare, and rest of they key presses would still be in sync if that happens. ) but someone to splice video to keylog/raw input data … that starts to be way too hard for someone to cheat..

[@Step1adder]

wq: ʰᵉ ᵐᵃᵈᵉ ᵃ ᵈᶦᶠᶠᵉʳᵉⁿᵗ ᵃᶜᶜᵒᵘⁿᵗ ᵃⁿᵈ ᵘˢᵉᵈ ᵃ ᵛᵒᶦᶜᵉ ᶜʰᵃⁿᵍᵉʳ ᵗʰᶦˢ ᶦˢ ᵃᵇˢᵘʳᵈ Apollo: SO THE PERSON WHO ACTUALLY REMOVED HIS TIMES WAS CRYSTAL CORRECT?

[@jahangirkabir750]

Why dose this comment doesn't have reply and has alot of likes ;-;

[@CKyIe]

@@jahangirkabir750 My question is what are the chances that it was it posted over a year ago, yet the only reply is mere hours old?

[@jahangirkabir750]

@@CKyIe ok

[@Step1adder]

@@CKyIe ok

[@MrCaptainTea]

@@CKyIe ok

[@tethryss5001]

Handcams should be made 100% necessary. ANYTHING related to referees should be banned utterly. Twin Galaxies ruined that.

[@thecolorpurple6401]

I don't think you should ban the referee system, you should take both. Handcam required, if no cam, then it's not going up. And then if there *is* a cam, get *several* referees to review the footage and the majority wins. And if someone finds a discrepancy in the footage later, get a new team of refs to analyze the footage *again.* That provides a doubly safe method so that no cheated speedrun can be uploaded.

[@user-ux2kk5vp7m]

Anonymous Beholder lots of people can’t really do handcams. Would be unfair to require it

[@tethryss5001]

@@user-ux2kk5vp7m Why can't they do hand-cams? Get a webcam, hook it up over your keyboard and tadaah!

[@user-ux2kk5vp7m]

Alexander Ackerman what if I’m playing a console game without a capture card (need to record my screen with a camera) and now don’t have another camera to use as a handcam? Or maybe I can record both but don’t have a PC to edit them together? It’s an unnecessary barrier to entry that attempts to solve a problem with cheated runs that I have never experienced in my 3 years of moderating lol. Like it or not these cases are very far and few between

[@thecolorpurple6401]

Thomas sure. Few and far between. *that you know of.* The whole point of this video and several others is that it's *very easy* to make a cheated run undetectable to the untrained eye, sometimes even to the *trained* eye. So if it's top 15, you have to be 112% *sure* it isn't cheated and be suspicious and doubtful about every run and every aspect of that run, or someone else will suffer because of a cheater. My system ain't *perfect,* but it helps prevent people from cheating and getting away with it. Ahh, sorry for the word vomit.

[@thehoodybadger3402]

RIP, Apollo. You were one of my introductions to speedrunning itself.

[@dabajabaza111]

What happened to him?

[@Suwawako]

@@dabajabaza111 he died

[@missicequeen2963]

@@dabajabaza111 he killed himself

[@TheLakabanzaichrg]

Why?

[@goldpuffle1]

@@TheLakabanzaichrg He commited suicide due to trauma and mental health problems.

[@PHN3]

"He exposed a Cheating Speedrunner" But nobody came.

[@LucarioBot]

Under tale reference?

[@PHN3]

@@LucarioBot yes

[@kirby.9601]

*notices a single pixel out of place* I'm going to end this man's whole career

[@josephdufresne7813]

Why not? If you work hard to get better and some one just cheats and wins your ok with that?

[@flamo2666]

Wuhan Noodles you sound EXTREMELY sarcastic.

[@alright9299]

@Wuhan Noodles alright bud

[@Fuzzycat16]

@Wuhan Noodles because they can't understand sarcasm.

[@koslaulskusthegreat9050]

I don't actually think he was talking to you but sure

[@yecathy8525]

RIP Apollo legends

[@frankmarano1118]

I had no idea he had passed away. How sad

[@darianistead2239]

​@@frankmarano1118Took his own life

[@PazuChill]

Hand cam should absolutely be a requirement. It would also give me an incentive to clean my keyboard for once.

[@Niko-ex3bn]

I agree hand camming would be useful, but in the end it should come down to what the administrators of a category choose. In Celeste at least (what I run), its nearly impossible to fake the timer on the upper left and keep the game consistent. In other games though, splicing may be viable, and its up to the category administrators to make that decision.

[@rac1equalsbestgame853]

😂😂😂 I should too...

[@spaceowl9246]

Just stop speedrunning so you don't have to clean it 5Head

[@Bestlich]

Is it clean yet?

[@user-lh4um6cj6r]

downtimedeath more like caveiragames amiright

[@batch_2731]

Downtime never made me ban his followers on GFC's streams. 😂

[@RegenWasTaken]

He changed his name to Chumbinho Games but kept his banner. Why.

[@batch_2731]

@@RegenWasTaken because anytime he starts up a channel and calls it 'Caveira' he gets banned for Ban Evasion. Initially he was using some shitty voice filter like a 6 year old trying to prank call folks.

[@someguylostontheinternet4504]

Let's Be Real! Downtimedeath was actually the one worried about his privacy in Ezscape's video.

[@monikamorningstarshadlo4129]

Is that a r6 reference?

[@DanoLefourbe]

Future rules will force all competitive speedruns to be performed live. It is unavoidable. It is just the history of a competitive scene writing itself at this point.

[@Tyr821]

The man who got me interested in speed runs. RIP.

[@steves1015]

Some tool assisted speed runners noticed that the pattern of Ganon’s fireballs were not random at all and tied into the ice armos fight. That is some pretty amazing detective work!! Whilst the cheaters are despicable, the people who investigate the fake runs and find these, often tiny seemingly insignificant, details, are simply awesome!

[@nocturnalnights27]

RIP Ben Smith, we miss you Apollo

[@Sevenigma777]

I hope your pain is finally gone and are at peace brother. Just want you to know we miss you so much and in time we'll see each other again

[@The1andOnlyWog]

We miss you, Apollo. We miss you, man

[@dood4976]

How does your mic get progressively worse in the convo?

[@Nappy47]

Lol

[@DoubleLogD]

Probably just talking louder as he gets more into the conversation, I do that sometimes in person.

[@Faux_Fox]

shit tier mic

[@gcm_0]

Funny mic

[@jurio3117]

bellow mic

[@sloth9093]

Just here to pay respects... the problem with finding good youtubers is that something may happen to them, you will be remembered.

[@redfogwhitefrost2583]

I came here to watch some fun looking speedrunning content and ended up having my heart broken. RIP Apollo.

[@TaperOyster031]

Don't be heart broken he was stupid and deserved to die

[@goldpuffle1]

@@TaperOyster031 he literally had childhood trauma

[@C4ptianmcd3rp]

Now, I'm not really into the speedrun community and I just started watching speedrun vids, but I totally think handcams should be required. They would be so hard to fake and they've been proven to work in the past

[@Danc3R4ve]

Handcams can be faked just like everything else!! Seriously. There should be a better way to evidence things than handcams. I'm not against handcams for rhythm games, but for general games handcams are a burden rather than an asset to set up.

[@nightcap5393]

@@Danc3R4ve it's would be quite hard for that to do. But it is possible, however the average person wouldn't be able to do this.

[@Danc3R4ve]

@@nightcap5393 Quite hard for the average person to do until someone releases a program for it... Then ALL speedruns will be called into question. Because they followed the handcam bandwagon like everyone else.

[@Danc3R4ve]

@Amord15 I'm not saying it'll be easy to program, I am just warning against putting too much stock into something that with enough technology can be faked just like non-handcam tasbots. It's not as if I have a better alternative, unless programmers learn to pull input from only licensed AND UNMODDED human hardware.

[@fireserpent9854]

Hand cams are a decent idea, but there are problems such as people doing the hand cam separately at slower speeds. However, someone else suggested putting an analog clock in the background. Another problem is laggy handcams or handcams having delays.

[@PkmariO64]

I’ve done speedruns for Kirby’s Dream Land and Yoshi’s Story. My times aren’t the greatest, but I always try my best. It pisses me off how easily some of these people have been able to get away with cheating, but I’m glad to see that some of them are now getting what’s coming their way.

[@johnoster4098]

Evere gotten a full perfect fourse? Ive come so close to acing course 2D':

[@commiecomrade2644]

Damn I would be happy to see Apollo upload again. My wife lost her mother to suicide a few years back and she will never be the same. It's such a tragedy all around. She was my mom too, the only one I'd known since I was a boy. Even though I was 30 she gave me comfort I didn't think was possible just by existing. When I saw this had happened I was heartbroken. Obviously I'm just a fan and not family but when you cherish the little things a few minutes of distraction or entertainment can mean a lot. It can get someone through those few minutes and maybe the few after that. Maybe a whole day. Maybe long enough that the postpone their plans to end it. Apollo had a big heart that much was obvious. He had empathy. That alone is enough for me to lament his loss. So I'll say again- Damn I would be happy to see Apollo upload again.

[@X320riginal]

Hole in your downstairs downstairs and I think you can't 5 a

[@illseeyaonthedarksideofthemoon]

Did you made the suicide of a man about yourself ?

[@joshuapatrick682]

dude was ahead of his time for sure. How many leader boards have been exposed as having fake runs in the years since and how many still have them?

[@sulfurnitride]

You will be remembered as a legend forever

[@dwangoAC]

Howdy, keeper of TASBot here. I wanted to clarify some terminology used in the video; TASBot is an individual, a mascot if you will, who holds replay devices specific to particular consoles that can play back predefined input movie files made in emulators. Creating a replay device is in one sense not hard (although cables are usually challenging), and for that matter it *is* possible to order a replay device from someone like Ownasaurus. Having said that, the number of people in the world that have replay devices of any kind is in the low dozens and this is currently a rather unlikely vector to be concerned about.

[@BigmacConnoseur]

A "vector"... lmao

[@deviantartguy0]

What a bad ass name bro.

[@thisidwasavailable3382]

You lie. Does our future robot overlord TASBot know you refer to yourself as his 'keeper' and not '#1 minion'?

[@dwangoAC]

@@thisidwasavailable3382 He's unconcerned with such human thoughts. His interests are in playing video games.

[@threecreepio]

If you can follow a guide for setting up an input display, you're pretty close to having a replay device. But I don't know that it's something to be concerned about, of all the ways to cheat it's not one of the easier methods.

[@Donmegamuffin]

RIP Man, you'll be missed :(

[@thatrondude]

What happened?

[@ticlik2760]

@@thatrondude he took is own life

[@TickleMyResearch]

@@ticlik2760 woah seriously?

[@bitchwormpuddin1499]

Wait this is a joke right?

[@ticlik2760]

@@bitchwormpuddin1499 sadly no

[@BloodPlusPwn]

It's unusual watching these videos now after having watched them when they came out. It's surprising once you've lived for several decades then experience a totally new feeling. I can't understand the feelings that would drive someone to suicide, but I suppose at least he can live forever through the content he created.

[@bearzdlc2172]

I can’t even watch them anymore it just makes me so sad

[@shevankaseneviratne1724]

this is so fucked:/

[@Jimi-px7dj]

This just popped up in my recommended, rip Apollo Legend :/

[@mitlanderson]

what happened to him?

[@nickwf2809]

@@mitlanderson He committed suicide.

[@JP-id7zq]

@@nickwf2809 wtf?

[@teamleo6622]

He did though...?

[@chrisbrochu3663]

@@JP-id7zq he did. They found him dead in his home during a welfare check.

[@Reoko77]

Apollo Legend. The Content Cop of Speedrunning.

[@RedHairdo]

lol

[@dirtysnakeeyes4346]

naw, hes the punisher. the speedrun admins supposed to be content cops, but like real cops, suck at their jobs.

[@ActionGamerAaron]

Wish he would have done a more thorough investigation on RWGoose's private server.

[@M3rtyville]

Cheater: "Who are you?" Apollo Legend: "It's Legend.." *puts on sun glasses* "Apollo Legend"

[@splinte111]

the whole billy mitchell switching of the board scandal showed that even on site refs can't be trusted

[@SyfiUziVert]

RIP Apollo Legend

[@dillonjohn7999]

You were the justices for the speedrun community thank you Apollo for everything

[@Rain1]

I agree with handcams being standardized as a sort of referee. Good luck faking perfect actions as an imperfect human in real-time.

[@deaththekid922]

And then you have to perfectly sync the 2 separate recordings (3 if you also record splits differently ( or 4 if you run 1 recording over all of them))

[@Rain1]

@@deaththekid922 and trying to sync human hands to a TAS run or spliced run is gonna get caught. Just like the Yoshis Island guy

[@notsmoothie]

@@deaththekid922 you don't have to sync them perfectly -_- people who want to expose you can fucking move the frames and look again

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

You understand they don't have to fake actions, they can edit a video if they use a few basic tricks. Have a mat or reference point to set your hands before and after doing something. Pads to "rest" the hands or marks on your table. In a closed room the lighting won't change, and then splice the two periods together. BOOM... or better yet have a friend push the cheat buttons and edit the video as normal. Faking actions though isn't hard as believe it or not professional golfers can reliably do hard shots which require extremely precise movement. With practice it works.

[@deaththekid922]

@@Rain1 No, just sync the actual handcam with the rest, you need a game recording software, for consoles potentially a capture card and then you have a bunch of separate capture cards, cameras, recording softwares which you need to sync together down to the frame, so the handcam isnt lagging behind or plays ahead

[@rev68]

Huh, sounds just like how Twin Galaxies ran for decades...

[@Kylora2112]

Todd Rodgers says Todd Rodgers's scores are legit because Todd Rodgers refereed for Todd Rodgers.

[@locke103]

@@Kylora2112 todd rodgers is the new bob dole?

[@Kylora2112]

Pretty much.

[@AlexFlockhart]

@@Kylora2112 No, Rodd Roger's used a guy busted for kiddie porn as his referee.

[@Stonedbloodlust]

Rip my guy rest well

[@littlemacisunderrated412]

“I love you all, take care” Man that hurts now

[@JakeRanney]

wqqqqwrt also has a legendary Super Mario 64 70 Star run that I recommend everyone watch in its entirety

[@KorZen10]

Sick run tbh

[@kingkrispy5289]

y’all mf’n WQ discord server gang?

[@matt187_]

Already a 30 second timeloss in the first 40 seconds. Absolutely beautiful. And he's on Japanese version to make sure he loses as much time as possible.

[@CuzImBlk]

@@jordanallen8420 actually my wife cheats on me a lot i like to watch so no thank you!!! Won't need the services!

[@hidekimeio8693]

@@CuzImBlk He got removed , human trafficking and extortion apparently. You'd think if they were gonna do copy/pastes's they'd at least fix the English lol.

[@francoisvanzyl1650]

RIP 2021 could have been better for you!

[@francoisvanzyl1650]

@@xLiLtEmPeR bro, suicide is no joke, call a lifeline. Get help.

[@LucarioBot]

Everything you say in both the main comment and reply is absolutely true

[@chrisbrochu3663]

@@francoisvanzyl1650 did he delet his reply? If so, what did he say

[@francoisvanzyl1650]

@@chrisbrochu3663 he wanted to commit the act. (suicide)

[@aragor34]

What happened in 2020????

[@Clonekiller66]

Billy Mitchell needs to be accused of manslaughter. Rip Apollo Legend. You will be remembered

[@ArlanKels]

What makes it tough too is there are some legit amazing runners out there. Like that one guy who did Mike Tysons Punch Out and had times that other runners thought were impossible...until they managed to eventually figure out how to do it

[@thetechconspiracy2]

A possible solution, in addition to requiring handcams, is to have some cheap (probably Arduino based) device that goes between the console and controller, and logs all button inputs, as well as how long the button is held, as a human isn't going to be precise down to the nanosecond, so there will be small fluctuations in the times

[@kilikx1x]

There are a few issues with that. 1) This would cause some input delay. While it might not be a ton of input delay top level speedrunners would be able to tell the difference and if you were to force those players to have to use this "device" they would essentially have to relearn their runs, especially any part of the run that is (or near) frame perfect. 2) Requiring players to go out and purchase a 3rd party piece of software is generally considered to be a no-no. Though this problem also arises with hand cams as you obviously need a camera to capture your fingers. 3) This can, and would be, very easily faked. You mention that "a human isn't going to be precise down to the nanosecond so there will be small fluctuations in the times" and while this is true whats to say that those button presses couldn't be faked? Adding a delay or extension on a button press it probably one of the easier things to do on a TAS run. 4) This wouldn't help in the slightest with a spliced run since a spliced run is literally just taking different runs and splicing them together so the button presses could all be authentic and this "device" wouldn't do any good.

[@cheekychunkSR]

Or just have an input display?

[@LuluTheCorgi]

Small variations in input can be programmed, that's why anti cheat isn't working for the last 4 decades

[@ZaydenSkye]

How is it even a question? If runs can be spliced so well they can't be detected, then yes. 100% yes with no doubt or argument. Hand cams should be mandatory for speed runs.

[@CKRETZ]

You could slice handcam recordings too. (Morphcuts)

[@L33Tbii]

Rest in peace, u legend

[@honorarydolphin9601]

Rip the legend, I miss you

[@ramonestefano]

Goddamit, your videos are quality. No absurd editing, no BS, no clickbait, getting the job done talking through clips, and no more and no less than what has to be said.

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

This was sadly a big issue...I wish they could of just listened. Also I'm so happy you're alive!!

[@bigm2480]

May u rest in peace Apollo Legend

[@hankmesker]

I was new here, I didn't know until I saw a karl jobst. So sorry brother. I started watching your videos and I like them. So sad my condolences.

[@happycamperds9917]

This is the advantage of Live-streaming your speed runs.

[@LolWutMikehSM]

Think someone livestreamed a cheated run a while back. The best part was if i remember correctly they had handcam, and it was used to show they werent actually playing the run they were also streaming

[@karensmith6074]

Yoshi's island

[@hidekimeio8693]

Ah yeah they noticed the controller movements didnt line up lol

[@fireserpent9854]

Just pre record it and play it back, boom. You cheated on a livestream.

[@ClawedAsh]

Add a program to make them have to a random thing in-game at the start and/or end of the run would help make that work more. Obviously, the person who makes the program would likely have to be a mod, and couldn't use their own, instead using someone else's

[@jaykace5160]

R.I.P. always a legend, always in our hearts!

[@FatMarioHeads]

Anyone else see this video in their feed? RIP Apollo Legend

[@silentlamb3290]

I respect everything you do on this channel and just wanted to say thank you for doing what you do.

[@stepheng8061]

Rip apollo man I wish I had gotten to meet you I'd have loved to have a beer

[@mdragarg]

Jeez man. Can't believe he's gone

[@sideroeyes]

Me when I find a cool KZbinr that talks about speedrunners- :D Me when I realize he hasn't uploaded in two years- ??? Me when I check the comments... :"(

[@NinF37]

Waiting until someone makes a program that 3D renders a hand an in accordance to a TAS

[@m347f0x]

Do you understand that 3d render would suck? And I'm not even talking about that human hand is such complex and unique part of body that creating ideal 3d recreation of someone's hand is too much hustle

[@maynase]

TheNintendoFan37 at that point, you might as well just sit down and get good at the game

[@GlowingOrangeOoze]

@@maynase I can totally see a person thinking that creating a convincing fake is a more interesting challenge that's relevant to their personal skill set compared to grinding out attempts in a speedrun. They're gonna be much more marketable skills, too.

[@dentistguba]

You can always spot a fake hand, Westworld told me

[@LtOuroumov]

Why 3D render a hand when you could train a Neural Net to produce fake hand cam footage from a recording of you playing the game for a few hours. Not certain if we're there *yet* but it's only a matter of time.

[@Memetastic]

Guys I heard maxing out your human element stat makes you OP

[@gamesake999]

Memetastic I love you sir

[@cuddlecreeper8]

I heard forcing someone to listen to loads oof sounds will make them OOF 2 seconds later.

[@futonrevolution7671]

He started LTTP in second gear.

[@redurn8170]

omg the real one he watches it too?

[@ForSquirel]

The Human Element is only 4 bits big though

[@toaddx]

R.I.P Apollo Legend. You'll always be a Legend in our hearts

[@mittinman]

RIP to the Legend

[@thespicybread1499]

The apollo legend

[@opiumfields3285]

hope he’s in a better place now, he’s the main reason i got into speedrunning

[@PrincessFelicie]

At the very least lifelong ban from the leaderboards for cheaters should be the standard. It's not a question of finding their one or two (or more likely zero) valid runs, it's a question that they cheated and shouldn't be trusted. You've got nothing to lose from not letting a known cheater compete.

[@davemarx7856]

Agreed. And that harsh punishment would act as a great deterrent.

[@Moop666]

Youre a guy. And no trans doesnt count as being a girl.

[@FireWolfu]

@@Moop666 And what does this bring to the conversation? Nothing.

[@davemarx7856]

Well that was a derailing attempt

[@Moop666]

@@davemarx7856 still disgusting

[@Sang15Mitang]

Hand cams are definitely necessary imo, esp for games with a huge chance of cheaters.

[@FudTron5000]

reffs can be corrupted as we've seen with twin galaxies handcam would fix everything

[@neji2401]

This, plus a visible analogue clock behind the hands (or over the controller) to prove the footage has not been speed/slowed down to match the inputs

[@GetOffUrPhone]

Wait wtf. Ive been watching a bunch of apollo videos these past years and had no clue he had already passed away??? Bruh rest in peace

[@danielthemaniel8601]

I don't even care about speedrunning but I always find myself binge watching your content. Keep up the great work Apollo

[@sectphiro607]

Same

[@entransnake]

He took his life.....he will be missed though

[@TBCLaker]

Depression is a real thing that affects millions of people it’s truly unfortunate that this young man took his own life 😔💔 if you’re not feeling well/safe call a loved one or call the doctor. It’s always better to vent or express yourself to them instead of bottling it up inside.. call a helpline, doctor or call your family people do care about you !!! 💚💯 Rip to Apollo may he Rest In Peace

[@optidalfprime3904]

the use of emojis just absolutely destroyed the comment

[@chrisbrochu3663]

@@optidalfprime3904 ikr

[@jimbojigs368]

May you find peace in the afterlife

[@V1rusT3k420]

Miss you so much legend

[@willofthebossv1663]

handcam should be required but speedrunning is such a cliquey thing now and the majority of people involved at the top are just there for the clout, the don't care about the health of the community. it's going to tkae someone making new leaderboards.

[@HarryWizard]

who tf is speedrunning for clout lmao...

[@HouseOfBrickOne]

@@HarryWizard sure it doesn't matter if you brag to some rando at Starbuck's about it but within the speedrunning clique being a top-runner is being a mini-celebrity. People like attention.

[@KlearChristal]

@@HouseOfBrickOne I wouldn't even call it a mini celeb it's more like micro lol

[@HouseOfBrickOne]

@@KlearChristal Is seeking the approval of your peers so laughable?

[@HarryWizard]

@@HouseOfBrickOne popularity is not what speedrunners speedrun for, its just a side effect of being a winner. There is a difference between speedrunning for clout and getting clout from speedrunning.

[@moreteeth]

I believe handcams should be mandatory for any speedrun.

[@GrumpyMustard]

Hand cams seems like the most practical and obvious solution to the spliced and TAS submitted runs. For every single run online, not just the top ones. You need video proof to be on pretty much any leaderboard so changing the requirements to adding a hand cam seems legit and something everyone can do if they're able to have a video in the first place.

[@bugfish04]

@Alfonso Razo If you can do the movement perfectly, you can play the game perfectly as Well xD

[@joshuasmith6909]

Miss you, Apollo. We’re going up to bat for you.

[@SoupyMittens]

what happened to him?

[@Chrischi3TutorialLPs]

The entire "Cheating pefectly" thing is not LttP specific. Theres countless other examples of runs going unnoticed for years on end before someone spots something new that disproves it. Like for example, that one time when someone got away with a spliced Super Meat Boy WR for years and only got caught because it was discovered that the autosave symbol had a specific animation cycle that was maintained in between levels (So if when starting a level, the position of Bandage Girls arms had been up for 13 frames, it would stay that way for another 7 frames after the end of that level before moving them back down for another 20) and so if that cycle was off at any point, this was evidence of cheating, and thats why he got caught. A similar thing happened to Vice City i think where one runner increased the speed of all vehicles ever so slightly. Not enough for it to be immediately obvious, but enough that it did make for a total overall time save. Pretty clever indeed. However, this too was caught when someone noticed that a particular bike, when revving the engine while standing, would create particles that wouldnt normally occur with that vehicle. Upon further investigation it was then found that said particles only occur when a vehicle crosses a certain acceleration threshold, which this one normally didnt, but did when you increased it by 5%. And this is exactly the problem here, you cant make the rules perfect unless you know the game to such a detail that any anomalous behaviour is detectable. And even then, so long as people have the will, they can always find a way to cheat in some manner.

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

Hand cams are surprisingly easy to cheat with some effort. Table markings to set your hands, a friend to do stuff for you, a closed room, or a drink of water. Like you said, they can always find a way to cheat which makes another thing to buy to speed run pointless... they end up cutting out their own people due to a pay wall as cheaters continue to cheat but now it is harder to argue. "Explain the hand cam, perhaps I did something or triggered something weird in game. You proven stuff we thought was random wasn't, so perhaps it is possible here. I have video proof I didn't cheat." You just reinforce the cheater's credibility...

[@Chrischi3TutorialLPs]

@@Buglin_Burger7878 Same thing with a referee system. They cant let anyone be a referee, that makes cheating too easy. But having them makes for another entry hurdle.

[@Radeo]

@@Buglin_Burger7878 worry not. "a friend" is an impossible barrier to entry for these basement dwellers

[@Chrischi3TutorialLPs]

@@sliver170 Fun fact btw, the only game that never had a spliced run successfully submitted, to my knowledge, is the Super Monkey Ball franchise. Seriously, look it up, the game is too chaotic for you to stand a chance at splicing.

[@benmidnightflame]

@@Buglin_Burger7878 table markings to set your hands? A friend to do stuff for you? I'm confused how this makes things easy. Even with editing you having to have cam footage of your hand doing all those inputs, this is the opposite of easy, and frankly that's fairly easy to mess up. Oddly enough some people also thought it was easy while cheating, so they actually did it, they tried to fake handcam footage for what I believe was Yoshi's Island speedrunning, and people easily picked that handcam footage apart and found inconsistencies within seconds and the dude was exposed as a cheater. Tho he was highly suspected which is why people asked it of him. If this isn't enough they could just go a step further and require you to live stream your attempts rather than use private footage, you're recording as it is. And streaming is something which the vast majority of dedicated speedrunners often do regardless, in a way this is actually easier as you don't have to worry about recording footage. Having to fake a bunch of footage, potentially weeks of runs, all in sync, jesus that'd be something. As the person in question would have to establish or paint a picture of reasonable improvement. They could use regular footage of them just attempting but then it'd be extremely likely that they'd get caught. As people are pretty consistent at speedrunning once they start getting to a world record level, if you're splicing videos to avoid the work of getting consistent then you likely won't be.

[@knightdriven4202]

"I called WQ to ask him" "Dude why you using THAT picture...?"

[@deftestaphid2026]

Rip Apollo you seemed like a great person.

[@SpiderWaffle]

I've always advocated for hand cams, when I first brought up the idea on SDA in 2008 it was met with a lot of resistance but ultimately helped some speedrunners back then shield themselves from false cheating accusations. It was a simple rule you could practically implement and enforce. Having rules but no way of enforcing them and going by trust was sadly was the overwhelming consensus back then; that no one would ever cheat in speedrunning and you could trust everyone.

[@theTweak0284]

The referee system would never work out in the long run. There was the guy who cheated his times for Dragster that was always confirmed by a referee he knew. When you include people in a system, there allows corruption.

[@clockworkengine]

Your videos and investigative work were excellent. Loved your work. Billy Mitchell is lame. See you on the other side.

[@jrkb89]

Miss you King.

[@gavin9088]

RIP my dude

[@arfansthename]

The guy: And that's how he cheated. People: How dare you insult him like that! He didn't cheat! (after it was proven he did cheat) People: Oh...

[@j.walker6845]

RIP Apollo

[@Tekape]

knew that discussion would be held someday, cheaters only multiply, handcams would be great but also other would get motivated, but probably less than the number that get scared away

[@ryaquaza3offical]

WQ: “they called me a mad man”

[@reallycoolbird]

It's like Dream nowadays. "Its literally a 1/1,000,000,000 chance" "But he didnt cheat!"

[@scottrauch1261]

Most top speed runs that have rng drops and such have crazy odds like that. And considering the type of event the statistics where used on makes it seem like they where looking for something to call cheating on. However not everyone follows the rules and that's why we have moderators in the first place.

[@bobboo101]

@@annecameron4787 the odds are consistently impossible

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@scottrauch1261 It's not one speedrun that had unusual rng, it's all of his hours of attempts before that, that's the issue.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

@@annecameron4787 I recommand that you watch the video made by Karl Jobst on this subject. If that doesn't convince you, then I don't know what will.

[@scottrauch1261]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 just saw a video today that has definitely moved my opinion from unsure to he probably cheated. Just with how often statistics are used, or more accurately misused, arguments build solely on them I'm slow to trust.