Heated Debate w/ Rekieta Law

DEBATE: Destiny debates Rekieta Law on Trump and Jan 6
Date: 5 Jan, 2023
Rekieta Law
► / @rekietalaw
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#destiny
#politics
#debate

[@destiny]

Insane Ray Epps Debate w/ Conservative KZbinr ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y5PQoaWGe7NrjKcfeature=shared

[@joshafflu1]

@12:44 i actually agree with both points of view. Destiny is saying that this was orchestrated as an attempt to defraud the nation, because they weren't there and they weren't appointed by the state, very straightforward Rekieta is not straightforward. Its like if you had some occupation were you had to notarize things regularly. And as a function of your job you pre fill out all the necessary things. Attesting to the date and time and who were present and all that. So when the actual date time and all were present and you completed it is valid. But if an accident happens and a party is not ready to notarize at said time and date, then the document is worthless, but the act of what you did in preparation wouldn't necessarily constitute an attempt at false notarization. shit example because you guys are talking past each other. But i can see both points of view being held in Ernest

[@guyfromdubai]

Yo August, not sure if this is old content or not, but it says "Date: 5 Jan, 2023" in the desc when Im guessing it should be 2024

[@Amor-Fati.]

It would have only been an insurrection if TRUMP HAD CALLED THE NATL GUARD, which they were trying to get him to do. When he didn't, they went to plan b

[@Amor-Fati.]

When you simply believe narratives, the facts will never change your mind. Your already convinced Trumps bad so it doesn't matter.

[@Amor-Fati.]

Please tell him HOW MANY TIMES THIS PROCESS HAS BEEN DONE BEFORE BY DEMOCRATS

[@megamantcg]

Who’s here after the arrest lol

[@phil6530]

Chat already noticing that he's skinny and "tweaking", lol.

[@Ae86nny]

Whatever happens, I hope he never gets to see his kids. Destructive behavior turns deadly iykyk

[@qactus4031]

Screw the arrest, who's here after the SCOTUS ruling?

[@michaelkarl783]

@@Ae86nnyglad he got his kids back. 🎉😂😊

[@danimalthebruce2569]

Nick Rekieta sounds like he’s on exactly 26.67 grams of a schedule II narcotic to be making these kinda of arguments.

[@simplysanatori]

With packaging

[@lepermessiyah5823]

I really dont think Rekieter understood the autism that would be thrown at him.

[@countnowayneophobic-wc4037]

Rekieta actually is master in handling all kinds of authism.

[@niclastname]

@@countnowayneophobic-wc4037 Could've fooled me... lol

[@twitfizz]

Rekieta had the psychosis to combat it.

[@FreekinEkin2]

Rekieter was arguing that if Biden pulled out a gun and massacred 100 people on his last day in office, there would be no legal repercussions. The president is immune. But apparently Destiny is autistic lol

[@jchoneandonly]

Rackets did just fine. Destiny was trying to argue from the assumption that fraud existed but none of the cases brought against trump talk about fraud because he didn't actually commit any. 1, he believes he was in the right. 2, there was some weird statistics going on in the election (if you want to believe there's actually fraud) and they're were a bunch of laws that royally messed up electoral security (mail in voting being a prime example) plus mainstream media hiding the hunter Biden laptop story up until after the election when the story being in the open would have provided information that would have convinced enough people if Bidens questionable integrity that it could have actually changed the election. So the president used all constitutional means to get the win he believes he should have had, he has plenty of reasons to believe that he should have won, and none of the cases involving the election were actually brought to the stage where they'd actually look at evidence. He did nothing wrong. On top of that, anyone calling out for an investigation to ensure the integrity of the election gets shouted down by one party in particular who says the election was the freeest and fairest ever. I think they protest too much.

[@ZorroinArkham]

My god Nick isn't even human anymore, he's smoked so much meth he's pure glass. Dude looks like he's on set at Toy Story 2.

[@tylerd1297]

Still won the debate 🤷‍♀️

[@olemanyounger5040]

The most convoluted way ever to say civilization hangs on a gentleman's agreement.

[@Alex.Holland]

This is always the case. Tacit agreement of traditions or principles, and violence. Thats all civilization has ever been.

[@bastachepistache]

True Alex but I do think @olemanyounger5040 has a point - there seems to be a very messy process here that could benefit greatly from being clarified.

[@blarblablarblar]

It's kinda true but I like to think that codification into law makes agreements a little more hefty than just a thing some dudes agreed on

[@_wael]

seriously

[@Prometheus4096]

That's not true. In the end, the law is just a piece of paper and people in power can decide. But we have a piece of paper aka the law to try to make them follow the rules. And it is working.

[@AssHandler]

Having watched the Jones debate, this was far too much prep than what was needed to tackle Jones. At no point did Rekieta even turn red in the face and slam the table.

[@steveng6704]

Nor did he tell Destiny he was dominating him.

[@hawaiin420]

Not coked up either

[@benjisdad16]

“No, you”

[@josteincarlsen2905]

Desire lost that one too!!!

[@thatguybrooke]

😂😂😂 destiny is bleak

[@SymGenie]

This discussion is the perfect example of how people believe things should work vs how the law actually works.

[@Hannah82271]

Yes, people do not understand the law or how corupt the world is

[@ButcherGod]

How long has said "Law" been in place? 200 years? 50 years? 15 years? it matters, especially with how "law" shrinks "Rights" over the years, therefor "Laws" are in the wrong and should be challenged, for Constitutional sake. Constitution > Law, if you don't agree, you should be living in England, not USA.

[@g.r.o.g.u.1892]

There is Destinys reality, and reality.

[@Alex_the_Dad]

@@g.r.o.g.u.1892please, do elaborate

[@matthewobrien7326]

Really? Interesting. Tell me more about how you've arrived at this conclusion.

[@Jason-ji8ql]

Just like the past year of main stream trials showed us, the average American doesn't actually know how the law truly works at a fundamental level. We understand broad generalizations, but this is exactly why they tell you to get a lawyer rather than defend yourself.

[@michaeljohnston272]

This hits a little different knowing what we know today

[@philbeesley3114]

Destiny’s argument: lies are fraud.

[@brainchildguru]

EXACTLY

[@anthonyfrank2747]

Destiny doesn’t understand what fraud is

[@joecorum9879]

Fraud is what his wife did to him

[@Dr.Disregard]

Well he doesn't understand law. That's the problem. He's making moral arguments based on his own perception on who is an authority. And his ego is out of control which doesn't allow him to even consider he's wrong. It's sad, a waste of a great mind.

[@jefftravilla]

Neither does this attorney.

[@d4mterro320]

ur favourite youtube lawyer friend is in jail now, cope harder about how "GOOD" he knows the law 😂

[@robertcampomizzi7988]

​@@d4mterro320he is? OK. New search terms 😂

[@falseprophet1024]

25:00 and 29:20 and 31:25 If a scheme isnt fraud when successful, by definition, it can't be attempted fraud when unsuccessful.. Shockingly, I needed no time machine to follow that simple logic..

[@obviousmaths4368]

I am not sure what you are saying here. Is it that if it were successful, then this would not have been fraud? What if by "successful" we mean that Pence did not accept the true electors, because there were presented 2 slates each claiming to be the true slate?

[@falseprophet1024]

It says there is a reply, but its invisible? Is this youtube protecting me from words? Dear youtube, where is the button i can press saying i want to see what people say, even when you think they are super scary words..

[@obviousmaths4368]

Probaby one of the many vanishing comments. Maybe they included a link. YT does not seem to like those. @@falseprophet1024

[@Chad-mx1pd]

I know this vid is a little old I don't think the success of failure or the plan matters to decide if some of the actions taken were fraud like saying you were the duly elected before it has happened. At least that is how I'm understanding Destinys opinions at around 30 minutes in

[@falseprophet1024]

@@Chad-mx1pd Yeah. The problem is destiny doesnt understand there is a difference between fraud and lying.. If a thing isnt fraud when successful, by definition, it cant be attempted fraud when unsuccessful.. In the same way that: if it wouldnt be murder if successful, it cant be attempted murder when unsuccessful..

[@ChristinaSobel]

1:02:46 As a former teller who has dealt with exactly that; no. Presenting counterfeit bills would not get you charged with fraud. You wouldn’t be able to deposit the bills, so your balance would be unchanged. The teller would confiscate them, fill out a secret service report, and send it all along. If the secret service then determined you were the source of the bills, they’d press charges, but that would be for counterfeiting, not fraud. Destiny’s issue seems to be that he thinks any form of falsehood equates to fraud. It has a very narrow legal definition, which is why we subcategories “lies” as fraud, embezzlement, counterfeiting, libel, slander, etc. He’s using the word colloquially, which you *can’t* do in a legal discussion.

[@brainchildguru]

Exactly. He’s equating a lie to fraud and they’re not the same thing.

[@tomorrow6]

In addition as the changes to various state laws were found to have been unconstitutional later , weren’t the original slates of electors fraudulent? The answer is no because it wasn’t intentional but maybe

[@d4mterro320]

@@brainchildguru Irrelevant, the law does not apply to supreme court cases. Supreme court cases are judged as "CLOSE" to the law which will mean fraud or a civil war. Ure a law student, you're 20yo. Your opinion does not matter

[@Bouncebeatz1]

With the intent to commit fraud, hey this guy signed this check to deposit his money in my account, I think is morally and legally wrong but I think your right using counterfeit bills would be different

[@ChristinaSobel]

@@Bouncebeatz1 Checks are a different thing that sort of fall into a gray area, with some culpability on the teller. There are ways to try to check for fraud, and a check can be placed on a hold if something looks suspicious but the account holder insists on depositing anyway.

[@icntsywhtiwnt2]

Is all 2 hours destiny arguing they intended to defraud and Nick pointing out it was prep for a legit changeover?

[@sangrieki]

Basically

[@d4mterro320]

ur favourite youtube lawyer friend is in jail now, cope harder about how "GOOD" he knows the law 😂

[@sangrieki]

@@d4mterro320 law is interpretive sometimes when there hasn't been precedent, and he's taking the case to the supreme court to see if precedent is constitutional, but he's dumb as fuck for all of the drugs/infidelity stuff

[@porteal8986]

this video tested positive for cocaine

[@LuigiMordelAlaume]

When this video came out, the FBI knew they had to take this guy out. They teamed up with Antifa to plant drugs on him, leave some bullet casings in his house, and manipulated his kids to report him for child neglect. They realized he saw through the matrix and could use his legal jujitsu to get Trump reelected. This man can uno reverse any fraud charges... they had to eliminate the threat.

[@Fergit_]

in which we learn that internet debate tactics do not work with the actual law

[@UncleA88]

They can’t commit “fraud” without Georgia signing off and when Georgia signs off they haven’t committed fraud. How is this hard for Destiny to understand?

[@madisonerickson9289]

I know right!! Frustrating to say the least.

[@markdavis7853]

Wow shows how ignorant you are let me break it down in a very simple way. "ORANGE MAN BAD!!" now do you inderstand?

[@tjrbrownell]

Dude you are stupid, it's not complicated. Georgia didn't sign off on it. Wtf are you all trying to understand criminal intent wad to defraud the American voters.

[@tjrbrownell]

Your trying to argue that Republicans would change the electors and voters wouldn't notice they win didn't happen. You all swear this mediocre lawyer at best can't argue a idea against Destiny's. What kind of "Wish" law degree does he have!

[@UncleA88]

@@tjrbrownell basically everything you wrote is incoherent and irrelevant to anything said. Try again.

[@AtlasCrafted]

Imma be that guy and just say Nick Rekieta is now on trial for 25g of coke and more facing up to 25 years in prison

[@KinKnives]

Attempted murder for hire is still a crime even though "no one was harmed"

[@BruceLeedar]

How did Destiny summon Saul Goodman into our reality?

[@whm_w8833]

That’s what defense attorney are trained to do. But don’t get it twisted, prosecutor also know how to play too

[@jackeagleeye3453]

Defending Jan 6th is like saying robbing a bank is ok if you really believe the bank owes you the money.

[@jhallin5185]

​@@jackeagleeye3453oh yes jan 6th the most dangerous day in American history, when the militia forgot their guns to overthrow the gov. 😂

[@therealdonelaitis]

Don’t disrespect Saul Goodman like that. This guy is a clown. He came equipped with 5 lines of first year law school terms (“declaration against interest”), proceeded to make the most asinine arguments, and when backed into a corner, pivoted like a Russian ballerina.

[@jackeagleeye3453]

@@jhallin5185 I take it you don't value the right to vote much?

[@Awaken_To_0]

This is one thing people just weren't taught in Civics class, I guess. It keeps coming up over and over. America was not founded as one governmental State with subdivisions, and wasn't really thought of that way till after the Civil War. It was set up more accurately created as a Federation: a bunch of independent governments that maintain individual autonomy but also report to one central governing body. Like in Star Trek, if that makes it simpler. Hence, why it is called " The United States of America" Many states in One Union. *E Pluribus Unum. * Consequently, in the United States, citizens *do not* elect the president. _States do._ A citizen's vote in the presidential election is irrelevant, except in that the states usually use the citizens votes to determine how they as a body will vote. That's it. This is why a presidential candidate can win the popular vote, but still lose. Because popular vote doesn't matter, only electoral votes do. State votes. Not saying whether it should be that way, just that it is that way. Riketa's argument is that there could be no "Harm" because the sole determinant of who is an elector is the opinion of the state legislature and there is no procedural limitations on how they make the decision. A state could hold a vote, get 99% Trump votes, and still say "Oh, that's interesting. Well, we're still sending a slate of electors for Biden," and that would not be illegal. Controversial? Possibly resulting in the entire state government getting ousted? Outrageous? Yes. Illegal? No. Because of this he alleges that there is no possibility for Harm, because if the State appoints them then no Harm has been done as it was always their right to do so and if the state does not no Harm has been done as nothing has changed. Without being able to show what material harm could have come from the lie, it's not possible to prove fraud. We aren't talking harm in a vague moral sense, but in a strict, specific sense as it pertains to the law. Citizens can't be "Harmed" by this because citizens _do not elect the president. _ Now, is this argument correct? IDK. When it comes to law, it would be generous to even call myself a dabbler. However, it seems like neither Destiny nor many of the comments actually understand what's at issue or can address it.

[@HostileTakeover555]

That’s not the facts of the case. The electors (who created fraudulent documents that they had fraudulently certified) sole intention was to create confusion NOT actually be inputted as electors. This would then allow Pence to claim since there’s confusion he would have to throw both sets out and send the election to the House of Representatives to vote (Rep. controlled)

[@JJHx2387]

This is a very good explanation and exactly how I interpreted Rekieta's position.

[@jonpray5509]

Nick's reliance on fraud requiring harm is where his argument falls apart though. Fraud isn't just some single law, it's a general term that a variety of laws fall under, and it's common in both tort and criminal codes for fraud to not specify a harm to be done for it to violate the code. I don't know if they get to it later in the video but they can just go and look at the charges in the indictment. Georgia Code 16-10-20 doesn't require a harm.

[@phanomtaxskibididoodoo]

"and there is no procedural limitations on how they make the decision" is this even true for the states in question? Are States not capable of enacting limits or procedural requirements onto their legislative capacity/power?

[@ShiroyWolf]

@@jonpray5509 Are you sure you mentioned the right code? I am reading it but it gives no definition of fraud. If I may shorten it quite a bit. It says if you are convicted of a fraudulent statement within the jurisdiction of a political subdivision of the state you will be fined and/or imprisoned. Is this supposed to stand on it's own or is there a definition mentioned elsewhere? I am just a layman and I have no idea what the answer to that question is. I tried to find a definition within the code and it seems 16-9-4 specifies different kind of frauds which all seem to include a harm.

[@vesuvius2444]

They need to debate more often, this is entertaining

[@Tar9p]

Beta

[@Tar9p]

Uggglee

[@Tar9p]

Condescending

[@Tar9p]

Malicious

[@kaelyn6078]

i agree, but maybe nick could not be so incredibly rude and condescending next time. it was getting unwatchable when he just had his head in his hand like he was speaking to an idiot.. when steven was clearly speaking in good faith the entire time, listening , and understanding. rubbed me the wrong way.

[@SymGenie]

I wonder if Destiny will trust his own lawyers during the divorce or just do it his way based on how he thinks things should happen

[@QuickBulletin]

Melina is hoping this Destiny shows up at their court hearings.

[@d4mterro320]

ur favourite youtube lawyer friend is in jail now, cope harder about how "GOOD" he knows the law 😂

[@let88it88be]

Nick gonna be confused as fuck how this got produced so fast. God damn August god damn.

[@nathandrake3418]

blud just clipped it lmao probably took like 10 minutes

[@JaKeIsCoolGuy]

The impressive part is just augusts isp’s upload speeds I guess

[@derpmansderpyskin]

Who is nick?

[@derpmansderpyskin]

@@AircraftSparky Law her? I don't even know her!

[@Soupasnake]

I need Piscos input on this debate immediately. I'm practically begging for piss at this point.

[@caseypdx503]

"begging for piss" that's a good ass meme 🤣

[@l9o6p7a3k4a]

Run to piscos authority because destiny has minimal legal understanding and is fueled by pure ego. Pisco changes emotional Steve’s mind everytime he joins discord what does that say about the merit of destiny’s legal logic? Pure emotion

[@kylerBD]

@@l9o6p7a3k4a Get help

[@DarkestKnightshade]

​​@@l9o6p7a3k4a when rekieta can't get wasted he lives off emotion Whereas destiny doesn't live off emotion very often, although he definitely does sometimes, like when he debated the one guy on his 2nd channel about trumps Jan 6 tweets recently. Normally, he just lives off meds

[@friskydjango8626]

@@DarkestKnightshadethe dude insults Destiny and your rebuttal to him is to insult Rekieta?

[@JiggyGnorrus]

Omg 24:08 destiny completely contraicts himself here

[@nut913]

Only after relistening to this I realize destiny was wrong here.

[@Spencerwalker21]

​@@nut913 Wait so fraudulent Electors scheme is okay because in theory the state could've said yup god people are stupid and you would never defend Biden doing that 😂

[@johnd1047]

That was exactly his point from the jump, he was restating his opinion. How is this not clear for you?

[@d4mterro320]

ur favourite youtube lawyer friend is in jail now, cope harder about how "GOOD" he knows the law 😂

[@falseprophet1024]

@@d4mterro320 So much for innocent until proven guilty, eh?

[@coppertheginger7514]

51 agents came forward and said Hunters laptop was fake.. they all lied

[@KBosch-xp2ut]

I think you just did…

[@coppertheginger7514]

@@KBosch-xp2ut it’s common knowledge you live in a bubble

[@ashzole]

When the story first broke about Hunters laptop, I won't mention the name of the channel. The former FVI agent discussed some of the disgusting things found on the laptop , such as: beating little Chinese girls , snorting some white substance then sexually beating Chinese girls. It also implies that the Chinese government or a sect of the government allowed this.

[@hbjeff36]

Is that fraud? Destiny?

[@trogdor20X6]

Did they sign an affadavit to that effect? If not, it's completely irreleveant. Also they didn't even say that the laptop was "fake", they said it had the hallmarks of Russian disinfo, which is accurate.

[@moscrow3247]

It feels genuinely the electors argument can be explained as simply as this. Destiny believes that these specific, new electors, are committing fraud by signing and preparing a document that they are the official, currently official, electors. Nick counters this by (not in these words, this is how I understood him) pointing out that the act of preparing these documents is not a criminal act. The reason for this, is that the document was intended to be used in the event that they were the actual official electors. This is why Nick constantly goes back to something to the effect of "well they could have been the electors" and "it is not possible for them to perform fraud" or whatever. Nick seems to be implying that it is not possible that they could have committed fraud, as it depends on whether or not the legislature determines if it is true or not. It is possible that when they signed this document, they were under the impression that the letter was to be used in the event that they were MADE, by the LEGISLATURE, to be the current official electors at the time that it was to be read. In which, at the time the document was to be used, which it was not used but IF it had been used and IF the legislature made them the official electors, the document is prepared and ready to reflect what they thought would happen. That they are the current official electors, in the hypothetical plan to have them be approved. That seems to be what was being said, to me, at least.

[@jonpray5509]

If that was Nick's intent then it might explain some of his arguments, but I was under the impression that these were documents being actively used to try to interrupt the certification process in states. We definitively saw footage of this in Michigan and I assume there's similar evidence in Georgia since they were both identified as key states to flip in the Eastman strategy. I think Destiny may have fumbled when he tried to push back on Nick's "if" statements by not explicitly stating that these weren't some rainy day documents but that they were actively being used in the plot to flip the electors.

[@moscrow3247]

@@jonpray5509 I may be misunderstanding, but I’m fairly sure what I said accounts for this. I’m aware the plan was to flip the electors. Outside of morality, this legally still makes sense. Their intent was to change the electors to these new electors. So, they had the document prepared and ready to go for when, during the count, Pence could receive an objection and then be handed this document to replace the original electors. In which case, the act of having this paper presented to Pence by the senator implies that it is the current official electors presented by the legislatures. I could see how this is a problem if the legislatures didn’t intend to have these new electors put forward, but if they did (I think they did, maybe I’m wrong) intend for it to happen, then that document cannot possibly be fraud. Have I missed anything with this?

[@megamonster1234]

@@moscrow3247 One thing to add, is that all these processes seem complicated even by lawyer standards and pretty novel; a lot of these things haven't been tried before. Do you think a possible defense could be that they genuinely thought they just found a legal loophole they could exploit? Exploiting legal loopholes by definition is legal and something that happens in law all the time.

[@jonpray5509]

@@moscrow3247 I think I understand your description of the events. I think this would still be considered fraudulent under the wording of Georgia Code 16-10-20 or 16-9-1b. If they intended to flip the electors and had technically appointed new ones earlier and intentionally hid that information it would almost certainly be considered knowingly and willfully concealing or covering up by "any trick, scheme, or device a material fact." It seems unlikely that if the legislature intended to flip their electors that they would have been allowed to authorize something and then conceal it. If the legislature did not intend to flip their electors, as Michigan's had not, then the people possessing the document claiming they were duly appointed would be guilty of Georgia Code 16-9-1b.

[@moscrow3247]

@@megamonster1234 Perhaps. Firstly I am not a lawyer so I wouldn’t know. It seems reasonable to me that this could be potentially a good defense, to some degree. If a person were to commit Manslaughter for example, they could get a lighter sentence for genuinely not wishing to kill someone but doing so as a result of negligence or what have you. It could be reasonably possible if they did believe what they were doing was “correct” in, as I would agree novel, circumstances such as these that they could just not be punished or be punished significantly less than truly attempting to commit a crime.

[@the0eldest]

Destiny doesn't know that the parties "elect" electors by appointment. The state decides which electors get sent.

[@XShadowAngel]

That's what happens when instead of educating yourself on the actual topic, you just listen to the media talking heads explaining it.

[@larryforbes6718]

In 1960 Hawaii 2 sets of electors were bandied about when the outcome was NOT determined. After recounts settled the winnerthe 2 sets became one. This guy says anyone can FORGE documents claiming to be electors officially representing the state. Also, many states now require electors to automatically agree w the voters decision in the state.

[@ChipCheerio]

They do, and guess what? They didn’t decide to send those people at any point nor did they consider sending them. They lied and forged documents saying otherwise.

[@komlat253]

Wait to clarify .as someone who has worked at a bank .if you attempt fraud at a bank then u will definitely get the cops called on u unless the person at the bank thinks its a mistake but willfully attempttito fraud the bank will definitely get u in trouble. We actually have to report it .the thing is banks may not make a scene of it at the time but the attempt will get u arrested for sure

[@cwhit0110]

Obviously but this guy is working backwards from the conclusion that trump is innocent

[@GenerationalDisappointment]

Right but it's still up to a court to decide whether or not you actually committed fraud.

[@Rundvelt]

Arrest isn't a legal finding however. In most criminal cases, it's the act that is illegal, and establishing that is what the state needs to do. But when we're talking about what someone knew, that's a whole other discussion. Because unless you directly hear them say "this is all bs, I don't believe that." or something to that effect, there's no real hope for a conviction. Destiny's appeal to "well, people told him." isn't sufficient, especially with Trump where I think Destiny would agree that he's headstrong and thinks what he thinks.

[@mrpumperknuckles1631]

A bank misfiling isn’t the same thing as full willful fraud. Like in insurance misstatements are based on intention regardless you will be fined or penalty on both banking and insurance but still if it’s willful than it’s a violation that can lead to 10 year in prison.

[@mrpumperknuckles1631]

@@cwhit0110more like you don’t understand anything so you project to make yourself feel smart…

[@fukbosten]

To destiny last point before signing off. Some states did try to submit alternative votes to biden but he rejected them back in 2016. And to be honest I believe pence would have rejected the alternative votes in 2020 if he was put in the same position.

[@niko7903]

Different scenarios. In 2016 they called for "faithless electors" to change their vote on the grounds that Trump was unfit for office (which let's face it, he demonstrably is unfit), and they were the duly chosen electors to represent their state. Also, I think there may be an argument for allowing that, but I might be wrong, and now it breaks the laws of the state or something (been a while since I read it). For 2020, they created their own alternate electors who posed to be the real deal in order to replace the true chosen electors, which is totally just nuts.

[@yopman411]

Correct and the idea was that confusion caused by this even could actually have Pence throw the whole state out bringing it to the point where it favours the republican party.

[@fukbosten]

@@yopman411 yeah i understand the idea. i still think he woulda just been like NO! and bang that gavel

[@doctorisjoe]

Woman.

[@alephmale3171]

Man.

[@RedditNovelties]

Dinosaur

[@rockbark2137]

S name

[@jaymay7957]

I’m pooping

[@LookatDaddy]

They them

[@JudasMaccabeus1]

“False is a funny word.” Linguistic extraordinaire

[@salmonblox]

He’s a lawyer. The definition of “false” is pretty important

[@falseprophet1024]

"That depends on what your definition of is is.." -Bill Clinton..

[@razzle_dazzle]

@@salmonblox It means "not true". What else could it possibly mean?

[@crushinnihilism]

​@@razzle_dazzle depends on what you mean by true

[@iam8333]

Destiny has no idea how contracts work 😂

[@lifeguard4356]

I feel like Tom Cruise right now in A Few Good Men, "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT I BELIEVE, IT ONLY MATTERS WHAT I CAN PROVE!!!!"

[@ronniekregar3482]

You're an ambulance chaser with a rank...lol

[@Democrats-R-hypocrites]

Destiny lost this debate flat out.

[@ZorroinArkham]

Is that why Trump is president now?

[@MegaMrASD]

1:58:47 I love how a singular man named Trump becoming president suddenly called into question almost every aspect of a presidents rights and privileges regarding the law 😂😂

[@wvance0316]

I think I've nailed the argument issues. Destiny thinks that if you lie, you have committed fraud, which on the surface seems true. Rikita argues that if the state, who has ultimate authority decides to accept it, no fraud occured because they knew what they were doing and have authority to do so. A good analogy would have been if you order something and then later they offer you something else instead. You as the customer have ultimate authority on what you will accept as your order, even though you didn't ask for that first item. It's only fraud if they give you something hidden as another thing. But unless they did some sealed ballot swap scheme, there's no way to have the state be defrauded, because technically they can do whatever they want. As a Democrat I can see why you would say they have to, since they hate any non-pure democratic process, but that's the electoral college and how our system works. Only states with faithless elector laws make it a crime.

[@falseprophet1024]

Faithless elector laws dont override the constitution, btw..

[@wvance0316]

@@falseprophet1024 and they wouldn't. You are falling for the Destiny mind trap. If the state still accepts their vote, it would comply with the constitution. It's only a violation if the state doesn't sign off on it and it gets used.

[@anypsotis7976]

I agree, I think the deceit factor wasn't properly explored in the fraud discussion.

[@gustavoj1254]

In this case, if they lied on fake certifications with federal seals, it’s fraud. Straight up. The state cannot accept these bc they were STILL fake state certifications with fake federal seals on them. This is the reason each of the fake electors in most (so far) of the 6 swing states are literally being charged with 2 felonies each. For sending fake certifications and forgery. The state can’t just accept fake certifications with fake seals on them even if they change their minds. The act still occurred 😂😂

[@phanatic215]

The fraud with the electors is that those people weren't going to sub in and read the real results. The fraudulent electors were definitely going to submit votes for Trump.

[@josephroyster3949]

Intent is important when it comes to crime

[@gerbilizer2488]

Destiny, Nick is right with how you are arguing/rationalizing this. you are assuming a presumption of guilt and working backwards from that assumption.

[@jeffdubbs1488]

Nick is hung up on something that courts threw out years ago, the harm part. If that were the case, Martin Shkreli would never have gone to jail for fraud. His victims made money.

[@michaelhenton159]

⁠​⁠@@jeffdubbs1488Yeah, and that Skhreli case took 3 weeks to come to a decision. It was not an easy decision by any means, and there were still financial losses, and intended future losses for investors. Because of the harm argument, the jury debated with the judge for nearly a day on what his definition of “fraudulent intent” meant. He was also given one of the lightest sentences imaginable for what happened. And in the Skhreli case, what he did was much more cut and dry than what Trump did. I’m not trying to come off as rude, I just have a different view on that entire appeal case, and this one. In my opinion, average people are using their definitions of what fraud is, but these people have no history in Law nor do they study it.

[@__keys]

How is observing the first part of Trump's plan, which was a blatant lie, working backwards? Please shut the hell up

[@smashingblumpkins100]

Destiny looked unhinged during this, the wife thing must be getting to him and effecting his ability to be rational. Law is complicated and election laws even more so, Destiny is trying to boil it down way too much and making absolutely terrible analogies. He thinks these analogies prove his point, but they just show how disconnected he is from reality on this subject. Like him in general though, hope his life gets better.

[@__keys]

@@smashingblumpkins100 what did he say exactly that was wrong? Their only real contention was on whether deliberately attempting to trigger a legal process by lying, which Nick admitted was true, is fraud if said legal process couldn't have induced his desired outcome directly. What about this debate was unhinged? I think you're reading into things that aren't there because you don't like him.

[@weazelnews1545]

Destiny : I want to hear you say this thing Nick : … No?

[@ricoswartz345]

Destiny tried way too hard to "what if" the debate to death. It did him no favors...

[@xyo1337]

Destiny met his match. You lost this one buddy...

[@larryforbes6718]

100% false. Nick goes w any case that confirms his bias.

[@YourLocalRussianNegro]

All I know is, my guy won.

[@Josh-ml8ho]

All I know is, my guy always wins

[@AGirlNamedVan]

Yes nick..also trump

[@09BiGDylan]

​@@AGirlNamedVanactual regard

[@niko7903]

@@09BiGDylan Highly regarded.

[@AS-sn5gf]

So much time wasted because destiny doesn't understand that fraud is a legal term with an actual definition.

[@lampad4549]

So much time wasted cause the lawyer didnt know that definition, must be the cocaine

[@malzo1701]

"Willfully Ignorant" is a good description for Destiny

[@andrewroman4982]

2:02:00 The point that Destiny is missing is that, had these states kicked back the original electors, a new batch was ready to go so the election could still go on. Him nitpicking the wording from a generic, state document adlibbed to insert names is not a solid argument, and Nick effectively dismantled Destiny's arguments here. If Nick (who is not a constitutional lawyer) can easily discern this, Trump's legal team will have no issue defending it. Unless, of course, the judge finds a default ruling, in which case, none of these matters because a judge just says, "Because i said so."

[@grittyfaithgrittyfacts]

I don't get your argument. If an alternate group of people sneak in to Yankee Stadium and then break in to their players locker rooms and put on their outfits and then try to take the field and portray themselves as the Yankees, they are frauds, not Yankees.

[@Cloudaddy220]

@grittyfaithgrittyfacts no its more like the first set of electors are the starters for the Yankees and the coach is the VP who decides to swap out the starters for the people waiting on the bench. No ones breaking into anything since its all part of the process

[@grittyfaithgrittyfacts]

@@Cloudaddy220 Okay, honestly, if that is the policy for how we pick electors, that really really sucks. Its like providing cover for legalizing fraud. Because if I pay the money to see the Yankees play, I don't want to see the damn starters, I want to see the Yankees.

[@Cloudaddy220]

@@grittyfaithgrittyfacts "starters" is a term used to identify the top players on the team who you "start" the game off with, so I'm not certain if you're still trying to make a point or if you're just trolling

[@grittyfaithgrittyfacts]

​​@@Cloudaddy220Yeah, Im not into baseball. My bad. Regardless, I think the entire idea that the words "duly elected" are just an idea, not a promise to allow those individuals the right to delegate the states electoral college votes without any kind of public process to change the electors is worrying. I'll say it again, the electoral college sucks and needs to go. It acts against the popular vote, and that is bad for democracy.

[@Ash-jm3pd]

"Hypothetically, if, in theory, they didn't do that, it wouldn't be fraud" "but they did"

[@LuciferArc1]

Nick explained it poorly but he's correct here. It can't be fraud. Theyre lying, yes. It is completely irrelevant because they cannot cause harm. They can only be certified through a legal constitutional process, and even if while lying, they are selected and certified...there is no harm because it was a legal process that certified them. Voters be damned...its still legal. Fucked but legal. If they're rejected...nothing happens, no harm. So while they are lying and it's morally wrong, it's not fraud...legally speaking anyway. Only due to the process being legitimate.

[@falseprophet1024]

What are you ever referencing here?

[@Spaceconstructs]

There literally a Metalocalypse episode with this same argument, where Murderface takes credit for being co-writer and get called out for it. He’s reply was “Yeah but I could have.” 😂😂😂

[@Will_and_a_Way]

Why do people think it’s acceptable to eat while speaking into a high quality microphone on a livestream? FFS. It’s repulsive, distracting, and wildly inconsiderate.

[@sparkz5251]

Destiny just simply deflects everytime he realizes he cornered himself lol

[@FringeSpectre]

Nick got him good with the presumption of guilt thing. I don't think I agree with him that trump didnt commit fraud, but he got the old noggin joggin I have to admit.

[@TheJhed3]

Well even though Nicks assertion is correct that Destiny has a presumption of guilt, but that's because Destiny is researched on the context of what's going on, and the only reasonable conclusion he can come to is A. Donald Trump is the most delusional person that has ever existed, or B. Donald Trump Lied. It's not like there aren't known details about this case, and it's all here say from MSNBC that everyone buys into because it's trump and orange man bad, these are real things he's doing.

[@tridenttitan5329]

Really this whole argument boils down to destiny saying that Trump would have hypothetically did X, which is an indefensible position. That's why this whole thing needs to be thrown out because he's imputing a motive into something that he doesn't know.

[@FringeSpectre]

@@tridenttitan5329 well I think it's pretty obvious given Trump's behavior that he was going to claim election fraud no matter what, so in my mind it's clear that Trump is definitely an aspiring totalitarian and he just didn't have the balls to follow through. Regardless of legal matters I think you're a partisan tool if you dont think Trump tried to pull a coup. Its like seeing a guy with a ski mask, a gun, and a large bag walk into a bank, stand there awkwardly in front of a teller with his hand in his pocket, but then walk out, and the conservatives are saying he wasn't going to rob the bank. Sure, he didn't follow through, but the intent was there. Trump is a piece of shit for that.

[@goliver9991]

Trump: "I believe it" Destiny: "I dont believe it and dems tell you its not true so you cant possibly believe it so you are lying and doing a fraud" ten thousand keks

[@deek1701]

If you think trump actually believes it he should have been barred from presidential power anyways because he’s mentally vacant at that point

[@kalashnikov1343]

​@@deek1701How many Trump supporters also believe the fraud narrative? It's not so crazy that 1 man at the center of it all believes a thing when 99% of his supporters also believe the same thing.

[@yopman411]

If trump truly does believe it then he is delusional and shouldnt hold power in the first place.

[@kamjoubert5566]

“dems tell you it’s true” so you’re telling me democrats were the ones telling him it was NOT stolen? not ppl within his own party? his ppl within his own campaign? his own VP? his own advisors? the DOJ?? come on brother..

[@cerealethereal]

this has to be bait

[@ethakis]

I want to see Rekieta and Pisco fight for two hours.

[@bobobobo490]

i like Pisco but Nick would mop the floor with him

[@vesuvius2444]

There's an old video of them interacting if you haven't seen it

[@jenispizz2556]

They actually did interact on Roe V. Wade on Destiny's stream. Not trying to be rude, but Pisco absolutely dominated the conversation. Rekieta mostly went silent after he was mistaken on a matter of fact, if I recall correctly.

[@gjgr7772]

​@@bobobobo490nah, Pisco would dominate him, as he's done in the past like in the Roe v Wade situation

[@vorbo01]

​@@jenispizz2556bruh what, pisco looked like an imbecile in that conversation, a d rekeita barely talked because he has openly stated he hates internet debates and thinks they're a waste of time. Also, rekeita was proven right weeks later when roe v Wade was rightfully removed

[@michaelrandall7667]

This where I think destiny lets his politics ruin his rationale. How does someone with his intelligence not grasp how Texas is harmed if anoher state cheats in a federal election? It's such an obvious concept. With politics, he goes from developing his opinions after findind evidence to funding evidence after developing his opinions.

[@andrewlipscomb4647]

Destiny talks like a goat - his mouths moves side ways

[@philodox7599]

58:00. Ooops destiny just understood why he is wrong and won’t admit it.

[@MrRjsnowden]

I was in that boat. Until this point I was kinda like this guy is just covering for Trump but once he went through that argument I knew he was right.

[@DrakusRecords]

​@@MrRjsnowden I commend you for admitting that. This is one of those topics that, unless you're a lawyer that specializes in election law, you're going to have trouble debating. Destiny is too blinded by his confirmation bias and hate for Trump to be open minded enough to look into these issues rationally. The big tell is how he assumes Trump knows for sure that the election was clean and legit and h'es just lying about it being stolen. That's a ridiculous position and shows a serious lack of empathy. No one knows for sure if the election was stolen because there was never a full signature audit of the ballots. So as long as there's room for reasonable doubt there's always going to be a huge chunk of the population who believes it was. And to assume that Trump is not one of those people believes it might have been stolen is like believing Bob Ross actually hates painting and was lying the whole time he was hosting his tv show.

[@mjackson5912]

Even if Destiny was wrong, he'd admit it. But notice how no-one in chat was like "OOOH, I get it" at that point? So do they all have egos too? I like Rekieta Law, but he himself doesn't understand what he's ****ing talking about, so neither does anyone else. It took Destiny an hour of coaxing to even get him that *attempt* at a coherent argument. But it never was coherent. At least not in THIS reality, this one with logic and English. How can you take the guy seriously while he's constantly making ridiculous arguments like (paraphrasing): "Forging a check isn't fraud apart from the signature" "It wasn't "false" for the electors to say they were state-appointed" "If Pence DID choose the fake electors, that would've been okay" "Why CAN'T the president order the assassination of 20% of congress to 'defend the country'?" Even after your timestamp, he goes on to hesitate/refuse to admit that Trump can do ANYTHING fraudulent in regard to the election, among other outlandish claims. At beast, it's bad faith. Meanwhile, Destiny is brash, but logically consistent at all times.

[@philodox7599]

@@mjackson5912 #1 Destiny was wrong and he didn't admit it #2 you and destiny think that the other guy is wrong ONLY because you don't understand the law #3 You don't seem to understand that they were NOT fake electors, They simply filled out the paper work early so that IF it was decided that they would be chosen the paperwork would already be filled out, It would be like me signing a paper for the buyer of a house.... BUT the house can ONLY be bought after they read the contract, Give me a check, Get a loan and then approve the purchase of the house.. So yes signing someones name is illegal BUT it cant in any way MAKE THEM buy the house if they don't want to AND if they don't take ALL THOSE OTHER STEPS that ONLY THEY can take. So is it forging someones signature? yes, BUT it CAN'T BE FRAUD because it is IMPOSSIBLE to make the person buy the house with the their signature on the piece of paper IN THAT SPECIFIC HYPOTHETICAL SITUATION ONLY!!!!!! That does not mean that you can go around signing someones name on a bill of sale, or a purchase agreement or anything else like that. IN this situation the people that put names on the paper had NO POSSIBLE WAY of fooling anyone OR getting their way by putting names on the paper, When fraud is NOT POSSIBLE its not fraud.

[@will.roman-ros]

​@@philodox7599just bc it's unprecedented does not mean it wasn't illegal. At the end of the day, the constitution was violated, so federal charges can apply when election voters were attempted to be disenfranchised. States had to observe whether any state or local laws were violated too, as this has never happened.

[@Dubinski2382]

The old "Trump has no evidence of voter fraud so he's not entitled to see the evidence of voter fraud" argument. Always a gem.

[@GrizzleSyrens]

Anyone else here after seeing Nick’s fall? Very sad, and I hope he gets the help he needs in prison

[@Calpernia_]

"You're working backwards" welcome to a destiny debate XD

[@Krapahirlin]

Aren't they both working backwards though. Rekieta is working from either trump is innocent or simply destiny is wrong. He keeps saying everyone is lying and only trump is telling the truth. Couldn't you only come to that conclusion by assuming an answer and making statements based on that conclusion

[@booshmcfadden7638]

​@Krapahirlin No, Destiny works from a debate tactic of putting words in other people's mouths. Take a drink every time Destiny says, "So what you're saying is... [insert strawman, false equivalency, logical fallacy, or lie]." I'll buy your saline drip.

[@booshmcfadden7638]

It isn't a debate. It's an interview and Rackets refuses to answer correctly, so Destiny gets upset. Rackets isn't adhering to the script, you see. And Destiny is either on drugs or needs to be, cuz he's bonkers. Let me ask you a question involving 4 different topics, and while you try to answer, I am going to chew and drink loudly into the mic, and mess with stuff noisily on my desk when not chewing. Destiny got wrecked and his debate tactics are childish.

[@niclastname]

It's the other way around though. Nick's argument is based on a possible future event, and Destiny is saying "the possible future is irrelevant, because they lied on the document at the start".

[@Krapahirlin]

@@booshmcfadden7638 You literally made 2 comments and said nothing of value. If your going to respond at least say something useful instead of just getting mad.....like a child

[@garrettwright6431]

Destiny debating lawyers is usually a bad move brother rip

[@AUser-t6n]

"A coup isn't illegal if it works"

[@megamonster1234]

I know this wasn't what you're getting at, but technically coups and insurrections do become legal if they succeed. That's how this country was founded. When the founders signed the Declaration of Independence, they knew they would get hanged for high treason if they lost the war because obviously declaring independence was illegal.

[@jdjenk04]

I mean I guess that makes sense if you also just fill the courts with your people after you successfully coup so nobody can take you to court lol

[@stevnated]

I believe this is what it boils down to. The military would have to pick a side. It's just fucking sad that our country would fall like that.

[@megamonster1234]

@@stevnated Don't all civilizations eventually have an end though?

[@kerwynpk]

I love how partisan and twisted this interpretation is

[@SomeDumbSpider]

It's so funny hearing Destiny say "Trump definitely lied because EVERYONE told him he's wrong". Not only is Destiny factually wrong, since there's *fucking transcripts with Trump and his lawyers* contradicting it, but even then, others "telling you it isn't so" doesn't mean you as a person need to believe them or take their advice. Always amusing listening to Destiny doing the same ol' "Talk fast and throw out 20 claims at once and not give time to verify" and follow it up "So if you want to disagree with that, that's fine!" A problem is that Destiny keeps saying that the president should be able to be criminally charged and how it's dangerous if they can't is that he *completely* forget the opposite problem. The danger of being able to prosecute the president at any time and how that can be used. A lot of the US constitution, powers and laws surrounding the president are a lot of weighing the dangers of both sides on things. Like, do you want the senate, that is harder for people to remove, to have more power than the president and thus have control over the president or do you want the president to not be bound by senate and do their sworn duty to their people even if it means that position can be abused? Protip: The former is worse, because it is a lot more likely to happen. I know it's comfortable to just "skip" the way things are meant to be done just to avoid being uncomfortable because of *your* political biases and leanings, but you have to realize that there's pros and cons and both, and we have to accept that the extremely dumb, unrealistic "Premise" of the president just murdering everyone trying to impeach him is... Very damn stupid.

[@jd8184]

well the courts are gonna determine whether trump lied right

[@512TexasRed]

No they will likely just avoid the issue and say that he has immunity so long as he hasn't been successfully impeached so the question about him lying will remain a political issue.@@jd8184

[@SomeDumbSpider]

I sure love youtube removing replies so I can't even see what others are saying to me and have no idea of what differing opinions there are. Thanks KZbin

[@_uncredited]

A lot of cope in the comments, calling Rekeita mad or stupid because they can't say he's wrong. Destiny simps are so reliable.

[@PolarizedxD]

You can easily say Rekieta is wrong. Because almost throughout the entire conversation he was wrong.

[@jefftravilla]

He’s an attorney and doesn’t even know the definition of fraud. He made numerous definitively-wrong statements.

[@_uncredited]

@@jefftravilla A good chunk of the video is Rekeita repeatedly trying to explain how it is not fraud by law and even Destiny (finally) lets it seep into his pea-brain. Watch the video again if you still don't understand.

[@jeffmyrick1020]

This was a VERY good video. It seems they both instead of shitting on each other, they both absorbed what the other was saying and let each other speak and state their points. Not one part of this debate was in bad faith by either side. I really hope these two guys debate again because I was extremely engaged and both sides made points that had me thinking outside my own internal echo chamber. Thanks to both!!

[@gustavoj1254]

What the other guy (not destiny) is arguing is just silly. To not understand how this was all fraudulent is completely mind blowing.

[@DaTruff4real]

​@@gustavoj1254 Well the other guy is a lawyer, so....

[@claydogg234]

​@@DaTruff4realAppeal to authority fallacy. I don't care what he is it's still obvious there was no widespread fraud in the 2020 election.

[@thebirdman6593]

@@gustavoj1254 Destiny is great but it is actually the total opposite dude, the law doesn't care about what you think is right

[@peytonsimon2552]

@@DaTruff4reala lawyer with a vested interest in courting his side, no matter what gymnastics or pocket sand he has to employ to make the situation appear deep and complicated. It’s not, he knows it.

[@cameronbranagh]

This debate shows that destiny has a woeful understanding of law and the Constitution. I don’t expect him to be a scholar or a lawyer but when the guys who’s job is a lawyer and personal speciality in the constitution and it processes. You might want to listen to the points being made by nick a respond as they made total sense

[@sward0483]

lol i totally feel for Nick.... Destiny really isn't understanding what he's saying about plenary authority. That is the same look I used to get trying to explain how to use the computer to my 60 year old mother, or having to show my 70 year old dad how to open his email on his smartphone for the 500th time and they just weren't getting it lol. It makes no difference that the people said they were..... first because it has zero impact on the legislature choosing them OR them having any influence without the legislature choosing them. They expected the legislature would recall the electors after objection and then appoint the alternates as the new electors. Essentially they filed paperwork early.... when they submitted that paperwork saying they were chosen, it was under the assumption they were about to be made the electors. Them just sending in paperwork saying they were chosen has ZERO impact on them being actually chosen and their votes counted.

[@1llusionzz]

Destinys Wikipedia cram streams for this debate must of been lit.

[@SJSharkByte]

"The President gets full immunity and can do whatever he wants as long as he believes it. Libertarian btw"

[@kerwynpk]

Until he's impeached, you know the mechanism specifically made for controlling the presidential power? What exactly is so outrageous about that opinion? Where is it that you've decided the line is for the president then?

[@ogolthorp]

@@kerwynpkthe president should be above the law? That’s called a king.

[@lustrazor44]

@@kerwynpkthe president literally can’t do whatever they want. If Biden shot someone in time square he’s not allowed to do that because he’s a president and they sure as shit wouldn’t wait until he was impeached for murder.

[@falseprophet1024]

​@@ogolthorp Its not "being above the law" when there is a constitutional process WITHIN THE LAW for charging them.. Impeach, and if convicted during impeachment, then they can be charged.. thats not above the law. Its literally part of the law..

[@ogolthorp]

@@falseprophet1024 so if the president has enough people on their side that they can't be impeached, they should be able to do whatever they want? Because that's essentially what you're saying. If one half of Congress is corrupt enough, the president should be able to get away with anything.

[@luismurillo5855]

Man, Tom Green has really gone downhill

[@jaydoggy456]

It's like listening to a child debate a law professor. Destiny is way over his head and it shows lol

[@Goldilush]

oh what a surprise. destiny doesnt know anything about law and wants to debate a lawyer.....and gets bitchslapped hard.

[@devinmillican2873]

It's difficult to find a proper analogy because it's as ridiculous to call it fraud as it is to call it an attempted coup.

[@pod8234]

Perfect!

[@m4anow]

12:49 Steve always loves to not admit when a point has been made against him, its a good optics tactic, but substantively it make him look weak

[@m4anow]

13:30 Steve concedes point and moves on quickly so his audience won't notice

[@m4anow]

13:45 Steve plants the idea that the electors forged signatures and Nick immediately calls out the false equivalency

[@m4anow]

44:50 there are so many Jumps and assumptions in Steve's logic and it doesnt work well in proving anything in law

[@m4anow]

I'm an hour in, and you know how I know that Steve knows he's lost up to this point- his energy doesn't match Nick's. He's twice as animated and loud as Nick has ever gotten up to this point. In other debates, Steve usually only gets this jacked up when there's obvious bad faith or the opponent has also already been equally energetic and jacked up. He's has his assumptions easily destroyed by Nick and those assumptions are the cornerstone of his arguments😂

[@Prometheus4096]

Like very debate I see Destiny have, he concedes points for the sake of argument over and over. Like way way to often. When he does that, the other side takes a victory lap. And apparently part of Destin'ys audience then think Destiny lost that point?

[@noturnleftunstoned72]

Fraud is generally defined as any form of dishonest or deceptive behavior that is intended to result in financial or personal gain for the fraudster, and does harm to the victim. Fraud itself can be: a civil wrong, for which a fraud victim may sue the fraudster for recovery of the loss, a criminal wrong, for which the perpetrator may be prosecuted and imprisoned by governmental authorities, or the deceptive acts may cause no loss of money, property or legal right but still be an element of another civil or criminal wrong. The purpose of fraud may be monetary gain or other benefits, such as obtaining a passport or travel document, driver’s license or qualifying for a mortgage by way of false statements.

[@falseprophet1024]

Had the legialator adopted the fake electors, who would have been harmed? You cant have fraud if the lie cannot induce illegal action. It wouldnt be illegal for the states to accept the fake electors, therefore it isnt fraud.. You also cant have attempted fraud for an act or plan that wouldnt be fraud if it were successful..

[@PoiterDaloiter]

Unless you’re a woman deceiving a man on the matter of paternity.

[@matsab7930]

It is very obviously fraud to lie that you are the duly certified electors of several states. The result could have been that pence decided to choose the alternative slate of electors without knowing they had legitimately been certified, or in cohort with trump. The harm is therefore that trump could have been reinstated as president based on a falsely certified slate of electors. That is a clear harm.

[@a1b1c184]

What is this quote from or is this just your personal interruption of the law?

[@ValorWarrior5258]

However, IF you fill out a false mortgage application, or an IRS form, and even sign your name, but NEVER file said false mortgage application, or IRS form to defraud, then IT IS NOT FRAUD, it is a filled out application or form, or in other words just a pointless piece of paper with a signature. This analogy is so much better than cahing a fraudulent check! Lol. I am NOT a lawyer nor pretend to be, BUT I have been a. JUROR, and we do follow instructions and law, so therefore, IF I am chosen as a juror and this is their evidnece, I find no harm, nor injury just from a piece of paper swearing they were authorized Electirs, IF that piece of paper was never put forth and utilized to do possible potential harm, or injury. Jurors that have experience know the evidence put forth to them can and will be weighed BY them.

[@carllong8954]

I love how a KZbinr is telling a practicing lawyers what is or is not fraud.

[@LewdConnoisseur]

Nick "Catfished" Rekeita LMAO

[@tiggerbane4325]

I mean Karl Jobst just recently did it with charity fraud to another lawyer and said lawyer privated their video lol.

[@dru70292]

Because Destiny is wrong lmao. Like Nick said if you make a false statement to an officer is it fraud if you are just wrong? Intent matters to the law. The law has presumption of Innocent. Trump doesn't have to prove that he doesn't know what he is saying is false. The prosecutor has to prove Trump knew what he said was false. And saying "well people around Trump told him it was false" is just hearsay and doesn't prove anything. Destiny should do a research stream on the basics of how a trial actually works, not congressional hearings.

[@Mindhaxors]

I love how you say this as an appeal to authority, but the lawyer is wrong….

[@WolfJ]

@@Mindhaxors I'm pleasantly surprised to see the fallacy fallacy. Could you please explain what's wrong with the lawyer's argument. Which standard of fraud is relevant here? They're all publicly available, and since you're saying he's wrong, you have presumably based your opinion on the relevant law (rather than uncritically accepting what internet commentators and bloggers have promoted). By the standard Rekieta lays out: What material fact was misrepresented? Who relied on that misrepresentation? And, how did they suffer? Unless you present another standard, I suspect you're answers would be: The claim those electors were duly elected; Pence; and, disenfranchised states. If those happen to be your answers, then I'm not sure how those "alternative slate's" claims are a material fact to Pence's supposed decision (unless we assume severe brain damage on Pence's part). If there's a crime, it's probably a different one. Of course, unless, there's a different angle here that I'm not seeing, which you would like to share.

[@ParanoidAndroid86]

Rekietas questioning of "standing" is insane

[@StickyFinguz]

Odd how Destiny forgets that democrats have consistently, after every loss talked about getting the electoral college removed. Im fine with have a double standard Destiny just needs to be honest about it.

[@Jhon47807]

What does that have to do with anything?

[@CesarFerraro2]

These two things are completely different, so there is no double standard. I don't know why this is difficult to understand. Saying that you want to remove the electoral college is just speech and political advocacy, completely legal and compatible with democracy and rule following. I don't even know if Clinton or Gore said they wanted to abolish the electoral college, but if they did, nothing wrong with that, same thing as a Republican saying he wants to abolish voting by mail or return the Senate to be elected by state legislatures. For Democrats to have done something similar to what Trump did, Biden as vice president, would have had to have thrown away electoral college votes and given the victory to Clinton because he didn't think those votes were legitimate since Clinton won the popular vote.

[@mastaroshi6001]

Destiny: "If you can tell me this one thing, we can move on." Rekeita: "Yes. That is correct. *5 minutes later* Destiny: "If you can tell me..." Rekeita: "Yes." *10 minutes later* Destiny: "If you can tell me..." Lmao.

[@DrakusRecords]

I'm glad he debated a lawyer on this topic. It's very complicated and difficult for a layman to understand. Nick did a great job here. I still think he would be better off debating someone like Robert Barnes who actually advised Trump in the leadup to January 6. I learned so much from him after the 2020 election on the legal intricacies of election law.

[@tofunoodles]

Layman here. The only thing I understood is "law is difficult for a layman to understand". Nick didn't do a thing to make it easier. Both were taking past each other.

[@Medi0cre]

@@tofunoodles I found Nicks perspective interesting. Felt like Destiny wouldn't accept you cant retroactively make something fraud.

[@leevy6753]

Here's my take amd I've yet to have anyone that hates Trump answer. What would you rather have. A politician ( Hillary and entire party..Democrat) that says in public that they have proof someone stole an election but then concede said election. Or someone that wholeheartedly believes the election eas stolen and does what they can to prove and/or stop the results from being certified? If you "know" the election was stolen by Russia and still allow the transfer of power.... you are a traitor to your oath.

[@Nothing_but_a_Rookie]

@@Medi0cre I felt like it was the opposite? That Nick wouldn't accept that you can't retroactively make something not fraud. If the false electors signed documents and claimed to be electors and somehow had gotten into the positions that the legitimate electors were without state approval then that would be fraud. Nick kept on bringing it back to the plenory authority of the states and their ability to choose electors, but if the false electors somehow bypassed that process, which it is arguable that they were trying to do, then that is fraud!

[@friendlymerc7276]

Robert Barnes is a pretty bad debater, I've seen him do a couple and its not his lane tbh

[@BlindGuardian050]

Notice how whenever stripper name has things explained to him by a competent lawyer he instantly changes to something else to deflect

[@abyssmom2692]

Now I want to play Sacred 2 and listen to Rihana. Thanks man.

[@tjbes]

Actually, Destiny destroyed this guy. The one thing the guy kept ignoring is the fraud. I don’t know how Destiny could have made that any clearer.

[@larryforbes6718]

Dumb..

[@roberts1711]

​@@tjbeseither you are a troll our are a dent head😂

[@WyomingGal64]

I feel like Destiny doesn't know the legal definition of fraud.

[@ashleygraham1011]

They what is that definition and whre is Destiny's understanding lacking?

[@ZeraLord]

Like @ashleygraham1011 I would like to see where you think Destiny is wrong. What is missing?

[@falseprophet1024]

​@@ZeraLord IF the false electors had been adopted by the state, would that have been fraud? Can you defraud a body with plenary power by asking them to exercise that power? The argument is that if they were successful, it wouldn't be fraud. Therefore, being unsuccessful cant be attempted fraud.. Just like an act that wouldnt be murder, if successful, cant be attempted murder when its not successful..

[@ashleygraham1011]

@@ZeraLord sorry, I must have been half a sleep when I typed that comment before. I actually agree with Destiny and am trying to understand the lawyers argument.

[@ZeraLord]

@@ashleygraham1011 Oh I agreed with you. Sorry, I was saying that like you, I wanted to see this dude's answer. MY understanding is that it is Destiny's later definition, that because it failed, it would be attempted fraud. The tricky part would be determining the level monetary damage. The same was if an assassination attempt fails, no one shrugs their shoulders that no harm was done.

[@mary1412]

I heard him say the other day “yeah I’ve been trying to debate Rekieta Law but every time we try to set a date it never happens.” He must have heard that 😂 been waiting for this!!

[@peekabbu83]

They've debated a few times before...

[@gerbilizer2488]

not the first time they've debated, and nick typically cant do daytime streams so its not surprising really.

[@vagabondwastrel2361]

Nick has 5 kids and gets hilariously busy in December. He is also notoriously bad at reading messages or msging them back.

[@boringstuff1542]

Nothing like a public call out to get things done.

[@MrMd5555]

Every destiny video should just be titled..."I argue to try to win again, regardless of facts"

[@BlindGuardian050]

Anyone else notice stripper name is very angry since his wife's boyfriend stole her from him ? He's yelling over the top of no one in a 2 party conversation

[@Matthew-bl2gz]

This has to be one of the most ridiculous debates Destiny has ever been in.....

[@falseprophet1024]

1:24:20 is when I think destiny realized he was wrong..

[@pearhams2]

My condolence to Rekita's near aneurism trying to explain plenary power in a political process.

[@ashleygraham1011]

Is he right? Because what he is saying sounds crazy given the current status of everything.

[@threeborg]

Why would Destiny voluntarily debate political law when he doesn't even know the basics of fraud, conspiracy or assumption of guilt. This was painful to listen to, especially when he can't seem to decide where his quarrel is. Whether it's with Rekita's arguments or the engrained issues with the system itself.

[@ibsagoalball]

​@@ashleygraham1011well GoodLawgic reviewed this debate. Also a lawyer and a lefty, and agreed 100 percent with Nick

[@falseprophet1024]

​@@ashleygraham1011 Yeah, he is probably right. And it likely doesnt matter. Scotus will uphold criminal immunity for the prez, just like they do for judges and prosecutors..

[@ashleygraham1011]

@@ibsagoalball I'll check that out then because.Nick arguments sounded crazy.

[@JS-kr7zy]

Is Destiny off his meds? He keeps talking over the guy, like a LOT. Several great example of Destiny blowing the fuck up and spamming hyperbole regardless of relevance.

[@elsupermano4646]

He's on TDS. Meds don't matter.

[@LeLeMooD]

It's so fucking incredily annoying to listen to Destiny talking neurotically like a crazy person

[@Khazzz]

I could be totally not understanding this argument, but it sounds like it’s only fraud if it works - with the caveat that if it worked, then it wouldn’t be fraud.

[@Dutchman294]

You are not understanding it. The statements even if they're a lie can't possibly induce the fraud. That's why it's not fraud.

[@iconoclast485]

basically there can be no fraud because no matter what the "fake" slate of electors say or do the state would have to certify them for any change to occur and if the state certifies them they accept what those electors pose as the actual outcome and if the state certifies them how can that be fraud? Them saying the state certified them was not them lying and trying to go around the system it was the alternative slate of electors anticipating the original slate being rejected and them being certified. If it works there is no fraud and if it doesn't work there is no fraud because there is no fraud to begin with. You would have to start out at the fact that there is fraud to think that it's only fraud if it doesn't work but most people start out at the presumption of innocence and try to prove fraud but in this instance Destiny is starting out thinking ok there is fraud lets see where they committed the fraud at.

[@krishanpaul2]

If I walk over to you with a $100 bill of Monopoly money and ask you, "Hey can you break this $100 for me. Can you give me five $20s?" ... if you know/should know that what I'm giving you is monopoly money, then it's not fraud. It is not fraud, because you know that what I'm giving you is not real. Whether or not it "works", it's not fraud. If I do the same thing with a nicely counterfeit $100 (instead on Monopoly money), then it should be fraud whether or not it worked. The thing that Nick was trying to get at is that nobody was fooled by the extra set of electors. Everyone knew there were 2 sets of electors in some states, and everyone know which set was authorized by the state (state seal, governor signature, etc). It didn't matter what they said, they were not fooling anyone. If they forged the governor signature, state seal, then it would be different. I can give you a paper certifying that I am the president of the United States. It's not fraud. Even if I get it to the VP, it's still not fraud. (BTW, i don't know if the state seal is actually used, but what I'm saying is that this set came through official channels)

[@KBosch-xp2ut]

Well stated! The convoluted justification is bizarre.

[@roberts1711]

Correct you don't understand. He said clearly said if its successful it's NOT fraud

[@d4mterro320]

The cope session in the comment section is so funny. Guys relax, NOOONEEE of the arguments about law vs reality that you throw have NEVER happened, you speak out of principle about facts that happened in a different way in different cases and you equate them with this by saying "In the legal system, THIS happens" Also ur favourite youtube lawyer has no idea what the law is since he's in jail now 😂Can you stop the cope JESUS christ

[@philodox7599]

1:41:20. This is the biggest L I have seen destiny take. Destiny basically says “the president could stay in power because he could kill everyone that tries to remove him”. The lawyer answer “yes that is morally wrong but anyone could kill any judge or jury or lawyer that tries to accuse him… what’s your point?”

[@lampad4549]

The president is immune from being charged with that crime other people are not, that was destiny point on rekeita argument

[@falseprophet1024]

@@lampad4549 Not immune if you impeach him.. which destiny ignored.. Also, good luck arresting a prez that has convinced the army to assassinate senators. What a dumb fuck argument..

[@philodox7599]

@@lampad4549 I understand that but the problems is that EVERYONE understands that. We know that its unfair, BUT THAT IS THE LAW ( or could possibly be the law depending on what the courts decide ) But this whole unfairness issue is unfair no matter WHO is in office, Joe Biden took documents when he was only VICE president, Hillary deleted emails, Obama ordered the murder of people and spied on opponents campaigns, Bush committed war crimes.... Yet for some reason none of those things ever threatened to put those people in jail or keep them off the ballot, But somehow Trump doing what he did WAS SO BAD that he needs to be taken off the ballot and put in prison? The law has always been unfair. That is the point that the lawyer was making.

[@krishanpaul2]

@@lampad4549 that point goes nowhere. no one would ever go to prison if they can somehow get rid the people who are going to convict said person.

[@NATEDO6G]

The lawyer just weaseled out of the hypothetical that tests how absurd it would be for a president to have immunity from any crime as long as they don't get impeached.

[@FITCLUBS101]

Dude, you don't understand what fraud is, how it's defined, and how it's applied. You keep on with these ridiculous nonsensical analogies that are getting buried by Nick Rekita with logic.

[@silvermold]

Dear lord I'm only at 1:17 and Destiny's questions and "arguments" are becoming more and more empty and annoying...

[@silvermold]

This was a sad experience.

[@FlawlessP401]

Yeah it was hilarious watching him cope and seethe lmao. He is gargling the balls of democratic voting for president even though that's not the process in the constitution and can be sidestepped entirely

[@nikmarshall2989]

Really? I’m a little over an hour in and I can’t help but to think if the things that Rekieta Law is saying are true legally, our legal system would have to be a complete joke. Like really? You can just attempt to circumvent the outcomes of elections in several states and be immune to any criminal liability?

[@CoupeCluker]

@@nikmarshall2989 what do you think the SOP for questioning the integrity of an election is?

[@nikmarshall2989]

@@CoupeCluker I’m referring to the comments made by Trump to election officials demanding that a certain number of votes need to be found and things of that nature. The SOP definitely doesn’t include things like that, or like making the baseless claims that Giuliani did that several states had rigged elections publicly. It doesn’t typically include inspiring insurrection either.

[@unc1821]

The amount of cope from Destiny after repeatedly being walked through how he is wrong.

[@TheChristophermssnr]

I love how Destiny ACTS like he has a law degree when arguing with AN ACTUAL LAWYER. Destiny himself is a fraud

[@SiKxJayTee]

ur guy made no good points bub

[@Gizzardx0]

When did he act like that at all? Someone who isn't a politician can talk about politics... idiotic

[@foley15136]

Letting the mic pick up your chewing and swallowing is disgusting and most of your audience is annoyed and grossed out by it……if you give a shit what your audience thinks. But I suppose you’re one of those people that don’t care because you now have such a big sub count. At some point, streamers stop caring if/when they get big. It says something about that person.

[@boss302nard]

This was like watching Nick trying to teach calculus to a 9 year old having a temper tantrum. TDS is a virus.

[@JamesSmith-qw3sp]

TDS IS a virus. People worship the guy and refuse to believe anything else.

[@deusvolt5688]

Omg, 30 minutes in and Destiny is still confused by the definition of fraud .

[@timchapman5553]

Biden couldn’t fill a Wendy’s full of supporters