Here We Go Again! Can The Subaru Crosstrek Conquer Cliffhanger 1.0?

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( tfloffroad.com/ ) The Subaru Crosstrek is back! It struggled a bit in our last off-road excursion, but how well can it tackle Cliffhanger? Here's another look at how Subaru's smallest crossover fares off-road!
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#Subaru #Crosstrek #Offroad

[@TFLoffroad]

To potentially win a dream house in Austin, Texas OR $1.3 million dollars cash and support a great cause go to www.omaze.com/TFLoffroad

[@2011blueman]

​@@daletowert It's actually because of Canadian law. A giveaway cannot use pure luck to determine who wins. There must be at least some element of skill involved, according to the Canadian Competition Act. To remove the element of chance, sponsors narrow the field of potential winners by requiring a skill-testing question. You'll see that clause on every sweepstakes that allows Canadian citizens to win.

[@2011blueman]

@@daletowert Yes understandable, a good rule of thumb is if you see a stupid clause in something odds are it's because of an equally stupid law :)

[@darkmxhishot7475]

What are you guys trying to test the Honda passport? And where is the test on the outback wilderness?

[@heyduuude]

lets see #crosstrek 6 MT gear box , test on those off road and show what the manuals can do. jaw dropping boys 💯🆗🇯🇵🔰🤟🏼🕹

[@vedder10]

Please don't get me wrong I love TFL everything. However the fanbase needs to calm down and get a dose of reality. Subaru's sell well because they offer capability that 85 to 95% of what their customers need. Decent gas mileage, decent ground clearance, wonderful AWD, and practical driving experience. Broken record here but most people, even some of you who won't admit it, have never even taken your Jeeps or 4runners on obstacles demonstrated in this video. It's nice to know you have the capability but let's be honest 90% of us are domesticated toilet paper hoarding civilians. Let's just keep it real.

[@toddkovalcik332]

Well said could not agree more. So many times a reviewer will know a product down because they want the vehicle to be something it was never intended to be. These TFL reviews are great, "real world" examples.

[@letour32rr]

I drove my Jeep Patriot across the country with one of the focuses to drive these trails to compare it to the vehicles that TFL tests here. It did better than the Crosstrek on these trails which definitely answered if I would consider one to replace the Patriot in a few years. If I buy something marketed to be able to drive on trails, I will test it to and beyond that capability. CVT and slow speed trail driving are not a good combo. Operating at lower RPM than the torque converter lockup tends to overheat these CVT’s. In my experience, CVT fluid health has a much narrower margin of error than regular geared auto transmissions. Take it on a few trails, burn up the CVT fluid, and it dies a young death. I had a 2012 Patriot with the CVT and it had the same issues that plagued this Crosstrek in slow speed crawling scenarios. It would bog down. At the top of long climbs, you could smell the transmission. Got a 2016 Patriot later with a regular 6spd auto and it doesn’t overheat or bog down as bad. All this to say, alot of what the Crosstrek offers is offroad lip service to those who tease themselves about going to the mountains/desert. When they actually try out the Crosstrek to do the things in the videos, it can’t handle it and they have to get rescued or at best accelerate the death of their vehicle. The same could be said about the Patriot, but at least it was offered with recovery points, functional steel skid plates, good Approach/breakover/departure angles, and a traction control system that works well even with two wheels off the ground.

[@Deetroiter]

The Crosstrek is one of those vehicles that I honestly don’t know how they sell it for the price. A limited model is around $31,000 or so…sunroof, awd, 30+mpg, Harmon kardon sound system, rear seats that can actually seat adults, windshield wiper heaters, side view mirror heaters, heated leather seating, satellite navigation, etc and the list goes on. It’s truly one hell of a package for the price.

[@kyleeisenhauer5501]

Initially I thought Tommy was a little awkward as a reviewer when he started but he's become my favorite reviewer on TFL.

[@saint_keeblerElf]

Yeah i think he finally found his rhythm because i thought the same.

[@Jtwizzle]

Most people generally are when doing something new.

[@TheMeanmarine13]

Same here but you have to start somewhere. He's really got the hang of it now

[@trailmonstah1892]

It’s like watching Revenge of the Nerds 😂

[@Tallnerdyguy]

Honestly doesn't make him less awkward, you are just used to him

[@KaptenInsano]

I'm my eyes this was a fair review, I own the 21 Crosstrek sport, I have a lift and all terrain tires. I also know that it's not a true 4x4 but a fuel efficient very light dirt road crossover to my fly fishing spots. If I wanted to actually take it up mtns and true off road I would get a real 4x4. I love my subies but know it's limits. Thanks for the review.

[@johnphillips1879]

You’ve hit on a good point. The subie is not a true 4x4, but as an owner I feel they still are not getting a fair shake. I would like to see TFL invite a subie owner in who has done limited mods to their car. Say a mild lift and off road tires. Then have them try some of these test roads. Maybe deflate the tires some as well. I think the car would perform much better. But I have a subie prejudice.

[@user-rg1lx8yt6g]

I highly respect this answer.

[@mildphil]

@@johnphillips1879 Then the review is no longer about factory capability and all bets are off. Also a mild lift would not do much as ground clearance was not the issue here, it was the fact that the subaru simply lacks the grunt to get up obstacles. In a real 4x4, gear reduction through the tcase greatly multiplies torque and gives the vehicle a great mechanical advantage at the cost of speed. A FWD bias AWD vehicle simply lacks this. Also, this particular subaru is already the lifted version of the Outback. I don't belive tires or ground clearance would change these results, the vehicle is just simply designed to excel at different tasks.

[@alexmuela92]

@@mildphil yeah even stock a more experienced suburban drive could have done a better job.

[@Xphelon]

Well said Sir. Well said.

[@NemeanLion-]

Tommy really nailed this review. Very comprehensive and fair analysis. Subaru makes a great car, but they need to stop promoting the Crosstrek as some sort of mountain goat.

[@dirtsailoroff-road5580]

Agreed

[@frh-freerangehuman]

I got the feeling they timed that whole goat thing with the release of the bronco sport and goat modes.

[@andrewmeehan6151]

They don’t do such a thing. Look on their website

[@deejayimm]

No what they need to do is get the manual transmission version and prove once and for all it's the damn transmission holding it back. I'm not really a subaru fan but back in the late 90s early 2000s, before the CVT they were pretty damn capable, lots of video proof here on KZbin.

[@NemeanLion-]

@@andrewmeehan6151 They make it sound very capable and this is a basic obstacle that it shouldn’t have gotten stuck on.

[@brockjohnson4504]

I have a Subaru crosstrek (manual transmission) I strongly think it could manage that trail. I think the CVT transmission programming/ software is killing you once you hit the incline and resistance. I'm not local to you or I would offer mine for you to use. Find one and show use how a manual would do compared to the CVT, it would make good content Tommy!

[@rickybonn]

I also had the 5 speed manual. I can confidently say there is no way it could. It's been the worst AWD system (but the most fun to drive) I've used. Completely cuts power when any wheelspin occurs. I got stuck is my steepish driveway that a mazda 3 had no trouble with. I eventually had to get a bigger car and went for the Subaru Tribeca. It is night and day, and is the best AWD ive ever used (5th subaru(.

[@muriscirkin]

Manual Crosstrek I have climbed some pretty steep stuff but it's different at higher elevation

[@brockjohnson4504]

@@rickybonn that’s interesting. What year was your cross trek ? Mine is a 2015 and I’ve never had it cut any power ever. I have literally the barebones model. No fancy x-mode or any other off-road tech. Just basic manual awd. The only time I get stuck is when I get high centered.

[@rickybonn]

@@brockjohnson4504 also a 2015. I ended up trading it in, but it was so bad I think something was wrong. I also had a manual 2005 Forester and 2007auto Impreza. These were both fantastic. The Tribeca is in another league though.....but the suspension is tuned and approach angle isn't great so it's still not an off-road beast. In the snow though or steep grades it's incredible.

[@saturndesigns2339]

That's what I'm saying, they always review the cvt when the manual in these is super popular and most of us watching would love to see the manual go

[@jaybou007]

Let's face it: if you want to go off-road, it ain't cutting it. Not even close. But if you need a reliable grocery store AWD car that'll get you out of most situations during the winter and be enough to go at the cottage in the country, it's a pretty tough package to beat considering the MSRP for this Subie.

[@TheMeanmarine13]

That's basically what Tommy said almost word for word

[@Databyter]

The new engine choice on the Crosstrek is a game changer for tackling grades. There is still a challenge and eventually you will find something too steep for the torque management system because torque vectoring works very well,.. until you run out of torque. The smaller engine (the 2.0) is the wrong choice for any sort of serious offroad grade that is not relatively flat. The bigger engine means you can get past the torque required to fight the loss in the torque vector braking, and have enough torque left over to actually climb the hill. It really is that simple. And in this example on the harder hill, you have met the point of equilibrum. It requires all available torque just to stop the wheel spin and have any power left over to climb, but it is not enough to handle that grade because of the loss. A larger power plant is required for Xmode type systems to overcome their own lossy method of torque vectoring and still have power left over to do the job. This is exacerbated by the fact that there is no low range so you basically are asking a lot of a little 4 banger. It's not the CVT as much as people think. It is the torque vectoring. Many of these hills would also challenge a standard transmission or a classic automatic in situations where you had several wheels without traction and a low torque motor fighting against the brakes to mitigate wheel spin. Torque vectoring is accomplished via BRAKING, so you need extra power to keep going after the traction wheel starts getting its share to overcome the braking force PLUS the force of the grade and the terrain. This WAS a fair test in this instance. At least this time you weren't up against a damn tree root that was half the height of the stock smooth tire with no forward momentum. And lets be clear. I am not suggesting that the new engine cures the problem, it only gives you MORE capability and allows Xmode to be more effective in more challenging situations. Really they should offer a Wilderness edition of Crosstrek with lower gearing or a low range, and even the turbo motor. (Im not sure they would put the turbo in so light of a vehicle for liability reasons. People would be ricky racing around and trying to do too much and things would break, which might eventually give them a quality issues reputation). I hope they trust us to know how to drive our vehicles and give us the option. A raised turbo'd Crosstrek with a lower final gear would be a monster and even with no lockers, the newer Xmode and CVT would Eat both sides of Cliffhanger. It would also get great mileage and be a blast. I understand why they chose their flagship softroader to introduce the "Wilderness Edition" concept. But we all know that the lightest and smallest Crosstrek combined with enough power and gearing would be the most effective and capable offroader, if that was the ONLY consideration. Personally I need the room of the larger vehicle, but I wish I could make it a Crosstrek on the Weekend if Im on a tiny truck trail. And I can hear the responses now. WHY NOT JUST GET A REAL OFFROAD CAPABLE VEHICLE LIKE A 4Runner. Well, it's tempting. But the answer is Cost and MPG. I can have almost as much fun for half the cost to buy and less than half the cost to operate. And have superior road handling and a nice cockpit. That speaks volumes. Databyter

[@Honestandtruth]

@@Databyter Can everything is Good in Everything....?????? This is a Common sense question ⁉️

[@ianprice3556]

Should have gotten the 2.5L engine. I know the general mantra is "this is the more affordable one most people will buy" but the 2.5L is the one the community of people watching this video would largely opt to buy.

[@user-ck2pi5vh1b]

Absolutely

[@kenhoward3512]

My thoughts, as well. I'd guess most of the people who gravitate to channels like this know the difference and would not even consider buying a Crosstrek with the 2.0 liter (unless it was for the manual transmission).

[@MarksTech]

Definitely… I have the 2.5 sport model, and I’ve gone on hills that made my butt perk up. The 2.0 is just weak, thats why it had trouble with that hill. Not to mention that the 2.5 sport has two x modes. Also, this the crosstrek they have is 24k? The sport model I have had 2.3k miles on it when I bought it (cert preowned) and I got it for 25900 lol.

[@octurbojoe]

@@MarksTech Yeah, I started with a '21 Premium w/manual and no X-Mode(s). It was utterly gutless. Going up a hill on the highway with the car loaded up was dangerous, and now watching this video makes me glad I got the Sport, less than a month later. It does make a difference and the Crosstrek should've gotten the FB25 from the start to separate it from the Impreza.

[@ianprice3556]

@@octurbojoe yeah it feels like Subaru went through a "no fun zone" stretch where they killed the XT models and things like the Forester and Crosstrek had barely passable powertrains. At least the Outback still had the 3.6R you could opt for. Now it seems like they're coming out of that inexplicable phase, with the Outback XT and Crosstrek 2.5L optional powertrains. I used to have an '18 Crosstrek, great car overall but I likened it to running vs walking. Walk around your neighborhood and you might say it was pretty much flat, but run it for the first time and you notice there are little hills everywhere. The Crosstrek with the 2.0 felt like it was the runner even with just you in the car. Then load it up with people or gear and it's completely overmatched. It'll get you there but be prepared to watch the rest of traffic fly by. Can't forget this one has the same sticker as a low end Civic, though. Great value for what you get. I about fractured my jaw on the floor when I saw Tommy's new $33k Wrangler has crank windows, manual locks, and optional AC. A great off road platform but man that definitely feels like you pay a premium to get into the Wrangler world.

[@MarkPharaoh]

Tommy solo reviews are great

[@WW-wf8tu]

Dead on honest efforts. The Subaru fanatics should have no complaints about your genuine test here and showing what that vehicle can and cannot do. I like it! Great job Tommy.

[@AWDfreak]

The ones that have butthurt complaints are the ones who have too much of a connection to the CVT. I got a manual Subie with a dual-range swap, and chances are, I too would get stuck here also... in high-range. I might barely get up it in low-range, because the FB20 engine is so weak that it probably puts down 100 AWHP and probably a number not far-off from that in torque output in ft-lbs.

[@jordanricker4948]

Watching you guys drive off road kills me.

[@licketysplitdemolitionjunk9156]

Subarus were so much better when you could get them with automatic transmissions and limited slip differential‘s. Wish I still had my ‘96.

[@spuriouseffect]

My 83 GL with low range was my favorite. I didn't like the automatic Subarus. All mine but one have been standards.

[@licketysplitdemolitionjunk9156]

@Jeff Bruce I’ve owned six including my wife’s 2019 Crosstrek. I recently traded in my 2018 outback after driving at two years. I know what I’m talking about.

[@licketysplitdemolitionjunk9156]

@Jeff Bruce Have you had a chance to drive a full mechanical drive train Subaru? Very different experience than the modern stuff. Whether it’s deep snow covered Vermont dirt roads, or deep sandy coastal roads they are fantastic!

[@deejayimm]

@Jeff Bruce how is that talking shit? What rock have you been living under? Old school Subarus were really good off road, now they have cvt's and they are no longer good off road.

[@spuriouseffect]

@Jeff Bruce

[@brendanw3534]

I wonder what some aftermarket tires would do in the same situation?

[@GoalsMedia]

I have a 2020 Crosstrek base cvt. Tires make a world of difference. I’m on a 2” lift and all terrain tires. For the money it off roads pretty dang well

[@spyder000069]

The problem in most of this test was not putting power to the tire on the ground. A better tire wouldn't have made a difference. A more aggressive program would have helped or prevent the problem in the first case with a softer or eliminated sway bar to allow more suspension drop to keep tires on the ground.

[@davep2945]

Brendan I've been commenting for a while now that they need to test aftermarket A/T's against the stock tires on a variety of vehicles because everyone claims they make a difference. Well, show us. It'd be a video a ton of people would watch and TFL certainly has the resources to make it happen.

[@ericgallagan946]

A road tire VS a decent A/T like a Wildpeak or K02 isn’t a competition in this environment. You would see a vast improvement on any vehicle. It’s the same as if you compared an economy tire to a race tire on a track. Performance gains are obvious.

[@miller1]

@@spyder000069 I wonder if Dual X-Mode with the 2.5L on the Sport would have made any difference here.

[@tgmotoman1]

i am on my second crosstrek and have a forester now also. excellent vehicles that offer excellent drivability in a terrific value package. they inspire confidence in all weather conditions and mild callichi roads.

[@inthisdayandage2793]

i wish they would let yall test the wilderness

[@gobear83]

Subrau doesn’t currently make a Crosstrek Wilderness…we have them in Canada called the Outdoor and the USA gets the sport …. Our new 2021 Outdoor has just over three thousand miles and we just love driving it

[@gobear83]

@@polarbear4686 it has the 183 hp …what do you mean less speed sport ??

[@Asientabs]

@@gobear83 he just means that the outdoor is not as fancy as the Sport when it comes to the spec's... Non of them is comparable to a wilderness. We will see when they bring a Crosstrek wilderness.. it will be a more capable Crosstrek but still be a softroader good for overlanding but by no means like an 4x4 off roader. I don't know why ppl would take there Subarus through such shit. If u take a Crosstrek and put all offroad mods on to make it capable to get up there, i wonder why u don't spend that money on a true 4x4... I love my Crosstrek, i bought it to bring me safe through the Scandinavian winter

[@gobear83]

@@Asientabs ..morning , the only difference between the Canadian Outdoor and the USA Sport is that they can add a sunroof , we can’t ..to do that we need to go to the premium . We on the other hand get a heated steering wheel :0) And according my source ..Subaru isn’t going to make a wilderness Crosstrek..only Forester and Outback Check out what a Quebec company is building …a real off road Crosstrek. lpaventure.ca/blogs/projects-crosstrek

[@manuelias86]

I'd live to see how the manual version of subarus do off road

[@frh-freerangehuman]

Check out ALNSM OFF-ROAD. A dude in France that runs a manual. There’s a whole community of manual Subys there kzbin.info

[@OPWasatchReptiles]

I have a 2017 Crosstrek on ko2 tires, 5 speed manual and I can go almost anywhere I want. My other car is a keep Yj on 35s, and I prefer to take my Subaru. I can hours of off-road desert trails here in Utah and still average 30mpg.

[@tdel8613]

@@OPWasatchReptiles yeah it's unfortunate the manuals in a suby is becoming non existence other than their impreza

[@deejayimm]

I talked to them in the comments section back when they said they were buying this Subaru, and they told me they're going with the CVT because it's the most popular option. I asked them if they can find someone near them with a manual transmission version of the same car and do a side-by-side comparison, but I'm not sure they're interested.

[@AWDfreak]

@@deejayimm I got a dual-range swap and am willing to travel to Colorado for them to try an earlier Crosstrek with this DR 5MT. But based on your attempt, it seems a manual transmission is not even something they are the slightest bit interested in testing. A shame, really. I might just have to go there to TFL Cliffhanger 1.0 myself to verify if a dual-range manual Subaru can make it.

[@sonny1597]

Got 4000 miles on my 2021 Crosstrek Sport. The extra 30+ hp sold me. Upon delivery I lifted mine 2" and added a skid plate and put on Toyo AT3's in 225/65 17" .. I have 12" at the rear pumpkin. On a fairly mild trip to Moab I was able to break it in and tackle some easier trails .. I am impressed so far .. and I'm getting 30mpg.

[@bjrn-einarnilsen687]

This is why i like your channel so much . Total honesty !!!! By the way, i am an Norwegian, living in south Brazil. My daily driver is a Jeep Renegade Trailhawk with a 2.0 turbo diesel, slightly lifted with Yokohama Geolander AT, and in my ocupation as a nature photographer i use a Jeep Liberty 2012 with a 2" lift and Hankook Dynapro MT. Not a very appreciated car in the jeep comunity, but it has never failed me, and always taken me to where i want to go.

[@garywasser9224]

What a great review. Thanks for your hard work 💪

[@lanceripplinger8352]

Great and honest review, Tommy! Looking forward to more of these!

[@Alex___820]

I like that you guys got the base model, thank you for buying one to review. Keep up the good work!

[@andrewmeehan6151]

I have a ‘16 crosstrek with the same engine so I enjoyed watching this review. I think you did a good job explaining everything and putting the car through its paces. Where you’re mistaken is when you start talking about marketing and advertising it as an off-road vehicle. I’ve never seen a picture or commercial on the website where they drive it up the hill with wheels off the ground. I’ve also never seen them climbing over boulders with the exception of the New Outback wilderness. People need to adjust their expectations when buying one of these cars. Like you said, it’s not a 4Runner or a jeep. Unibody vehicles aren’t designed to be taken on serious off-road conditions. The only reason the bronco sport is able to do the Hillclimb it’s because it’s a loaded model with the optional engine, off-road tires, and differential/transmission cooling.

[@pramosfernandes]

Subaru HQ will love this review. Great job Tommy!

[@JMacGyver1]

As a former Subaru owner (2003 WRX wagon), I would love to see you guys buy a WRX or STI and convert it into a mountain road rally car. I know they’re hard to find and so many used ones have lived hard lives. But you’d get the turbo engine, which helps in the mountains, and a far better awd system. I loved having the limited slip center and rear diffs, which was great for drifting in snow/ice/rain and I would think it could be fun for people to see how it would perform on the mountain roads.

[@giuseppevaccaro1934]

Great job Tommy, very professional. You nailed it !

[@michaelmorr4403]

CVT transmissions are terrible for any offloading. Great for driving to work in but not for gravel

[@andrewmeehan6151]

Any automatic is really

[@AWDfreak]

I guess ATV's and Side-by-sides are terrible off-road.

[@jeremyh4180]

Agreed

[@nolangeorge921]

I want to see him try a CVT with paddle shifters. I have the 21 Forester Sport with more HP and paddle shifters. They make a Crosstrek with same engine and transmission.

[@commenterperson4481]

Have you seen Driving Sports TV coverage of the same model year? kzbin.info/www/bejne/gX2apXmqm6uJe9k

[@davep4610]

Great video. Now that you have a couple of videos of this Crosstrek with CVT struggling on hills, it would be really interesting if you could find a manual transmission Crosstrek to borrow (any recent year) and compare the manual on the same trails and hills. I know the manual has a different 4WD system and of course should not have the CVT "nannies" cutting throttle all the time.

[@chriscon8463]

Great review! I’d love to see how your new Jeep does on that hill, for reference. My wife has a Subaru Forester, and it’s a great snow vehicle…that’s really all we use it for!

[@Tallnerdyguy]

That's honestly what the AWD was designed for

[@chriscon8463]

@@Tallnerdyguy it definitely excels in snow!

[@darrenjackson2705]

I am contemplating purchasing the limited version of the Crosstrek next Summer. I really appreciate your review as it gives me peace of mind in my future purchase. Texas should be easy for this Crosstrek.

[@movedbythemoon]

Great review 👏👏👏

[@smarticus6384]

It’s grandpa Subaru from the 1980’s would have no issues.

[@morilot]

Or from 2009, 2010 Subaru stopped using low transfer cage. I have a 2010 outback 😒 I was kinda pissed off about that.

[@Tallnerdyguy]

Grandpa from 1980? Thanks for making a 40 year old feel like grandpa

[@armsra010]

We have a Crosstrek we love it! We notice also that the CVt limits us when we go to the trails. It's a great vehicle for going to the lake. We are thank you for these great videos

[@AWDfreak]

This only reinforces my choice of getting one with a manual transmission was the right call. I need to take this on with my low-range 5MT.

[@Databyter]

This is a popular choice and it is nice that it is offered. But unfortunately it does not solve the problem of too small of an engine with not enough torque competing with lossy torque vectoring. Torque vectoring is a brilliant compromise. But if you are going to do this sort of thing and not just commuting, a standard transmission will not cure the problem, you need a bigger motor. Even tho it is a modest size up, the new motor offered for the Crosstrek will make a dramatic difference in some capabilities because it has EXTRA power, whereas the original offerering had barely enough, and NOT enough for offroading. Databyter

[@AWDfreak]

@@Databyter Did you not catch that I have a dual-range? I have a real low-range swapped in, it's not the stock single-range transmission.

[@Databyter]

@@AWDfreak No, I missed that. Nice mod. That makes all the difference.

[@volvo09]

Sweet, so you dumped a gear in the 6 speed and swapped in a lower 1st (or whatever you want to call it) for climbing?

[@AWDfreak]

@@volvo09 It's a low-range, ALL gears can either have normal high-range gearing standard Subaru manual transaxles have, or the low-range reduction that reduces the top speed of all gears and trades it for improved torque. And yeah, compared to the 5MT-based 6MT, the DR 5MT places said low-range reduction gearing where a 6th gear might normally be at.

[@PerroneFord]

As a Crosstrek owner (2023), I found this to be a very fair review. I used to teach an offroad driving course and was an offroad club president for many years. These Subarus are wonderful for what they are, but they are NOT suited (stock) for more heavy offroading. Personally, I have the Land Rover for that. If you need to eat up miles with good gas mileage and deal with snow, rain, or adverse conditions, the Subaru is hard to beat.

[@Zapak1]

Great Video! That drone footage is fantastic. Would love to see how the 2.5l would handle the cliffhanger; Driving Sports TV did a somewhat similar hill climb with the 2.5l sport model, and with that extra 30hp it seemed to do a lot better job at distributing power on two wheels

[@spuriouseffect]

My old Subaru GL had low range. Think about how easy it would be to simply have a locking center and rear diff. Traction control is total frustration.

[@donaldmei8797]

The problem has nothing to do with the traction control. The problem is the CVT transmission. In many off road situations the ECU cuts power to avoid spinning wheels and burning up the CVT. p.s. I also had a circa 1990 Subaru GL wagon. It was awesome in Low range.

[@RKmndo]

@@donaldmei8797 Install a rear diff-locker for just a few hundred $$ and the CVT would likely haul the Crosstrek up that trail fine. It's the traction control system that's cutting the power. Install a winch too, and then you likely won't ever need a recovery truck to unstick you.

[@kimcloud8995]

Thank you for an excellent review of what that Crosstrek can/cannot do. But I think Subaru promotes it as exactly what you have done here, light offroading to get people to campsites and trailheads. People need to know the limits of their vehicle before heading into the wilderness. And they can start by watching videos like this one!

[@ScottWallace5]

Great video! A future video idea would be like you mentioned to take other vehicles in it's class on this trail like the Rav4 or the Bronco Sport, etc. to see how they compare.

[@JDS-Dalton]

I've got a '19 forester sport that's been lifted, with all terrains, and skid plates and I've been impressed with it. Didn't buy it to do what a jeep or 4runner can do, but for softroading and light overlanding while still being a good commuter vehicle that also didn't cost an arm and a leg. To that end, I did take it up to an OHV park at a nearby mountain with a few other guys just to see what it was capable of, and it took on every obstacle I put it up against without issue with xmode on. Granted, I'm on the east coast so I won't be dealing with any high elevation issues so in this case, it's perfect for what I was looking for.

[@dicep6530]

Okey, as a Crosstrek owner, it is not an off-roader, it is just lifted Impreza, and that is just what I want(and what people who buy this car should be expected))

[@darylhill9400]

And the car will get you out of a lot of situations that a normal car cannot !

[@SasquatchStep5]

I daily a 2018 crosstrek with a six speed manual. I love this car even though it's cramped for me. I have off roaded it and it was fine no hiccups what so ever.

[@jlsgarage872]

I was on a trail a few weeks ago with my all stock xj with the same all terrains yalls pathfinder had, and there was one of these subarus that couldn't make it up a washed out spot in the road so he turned around and my XJ scurried right up it with no issues

[@Databyter]

The new engine choice on the Crosstrek is a game changer for tackling grades. There is still a challenge and eventually you will find something too steep for the torque management system because torque vectoring works very well,.. until you run out of torque. The smaller engine (the 2.0) is the wrong choice for any sort of serious offroad grade that is not relatively flat. The bigger engine means you can get past the torque required to fight the loss in the torque vector braking, and have enough torque left over to actually climb the hill. It really is that simple. And in this example on the harder hill, you have met the point of equilibrum. It requires all available torque just to stop the wheel spin and have any power left over to climb, but it is not enough to handle that grade because of the loss. A larger power plant is required for Xmode type systems to overcome their own lossy method of torque vectoring and still have power left over to do the job. This is exacerbated by the fact that there is no low range so you basically are asking a lot of a little 4 banger. It's not the CVT as much as people think. It is the torque vectoring. Many of these hills would also challenge a standard transmission or a classic automatic in situations where you had several wheels without traction and a low torque motor fighting against the brakes to mitigate wheel spin. Torque vectoring is accomplished via BRAKING, so you need extra power to keep going after the traction wheel starts getting its share to overcome the braking force PLUS the force of the grade and the terrain. This WAS a fair test in this instance. At least this time you weren't up against a damn tree root that was half the height of the stock smooth tire with no forward momentum. And lets be clear. I am not suggesting that the new engine cures the problem, it only gives you MORE capability and allows Xmode to be more effective in more challenging situations. Really they should offer a Wilderness edition of Crosstrek with lower gearing or a low range, and even the turbo motor. (Im not sure they would put the turbo in so light of a vehicle for liability reasons. People would be ricky racing around and trying to do too much and things would break, which might eventually give them a quality issues reputation). I hope they trust us to know how to drive our vehicles and give us the option. A raised turbo'd Crosstrek with a lower final gear would be a monster and even with no lockers, the newer Xmode and CVT would Eat both sides of Cliffhanger. It would also get great mileage and be a blast. I understand why they chose their flagship softroader to introduce the "Wilderness Edition" concept. But we all know that the lightest and smallest Crosstrek combined with enough power and gearing would be the most effective and capable offroader, if that was the ONLY consideration. Personally I need the room of the larger vehicle, but I wish I could make it a Crosstrek on the Weekend if Im on a tiny truck trail. And I can hear the responses now. WHY NOT JUST GET A REAL OFFROAD CAPABLE VEHICLE LIKE A 4Runner. Well, it's tempting. But the answer is Cost and MPG. I can have almost as much fun for half the cost to buy and less than half the cost to operate. And have superior road handling and a nice cockpit. That speaks volumes. Databyter

[@daviddorminey1434]

You are spot on, I pull my hair out every time the say the PCM is cutting power to save the CVT ,or that the CVT dosen't have a torque converter, heck it's got a torque converter with a lock up clutch, the problem with the CVT is they only have a limited range of possible ratios so Subaru goes with higher ratios for fuel economy. Gutless engine+ high gearing+ using brakes to control wheel slip= making noise and not moving.

[@ragweedmakesmesneeze]

I certainly haven't seen every off-road marketing campaign by Subaru, but I feel safe in guessing that 100% of them hit on 97% of the kinds of roads Tommy drove in this very video (and lauded the Crosstrek for it's excellent performance in the performance in the process). I'm going to have to do some interweb searching to find all this "Mountain Goat Rock Crawler" marketing material that makes everyone so mad. [quick cut to google search's top 3 video results] So far I've seen "Barn Wedding" which has NOTHING close to even the first Cliff Hanger that the Crosstrek scaled no problem. Then there's, "Girl's Trip" where the only off road stuff was a little gravel at the end. Subaru Canada's "Born to Adventure" spot is definitely more aggressively off-road focused, but again, nothing Tommy wouldn't have successfully navigated here too. If your biggest problem with Subaru is their supposed marketing material, and if that marketing material doesn't actually do what you think it does, is that actually a fair critique? (Also, I too would be curious to see a comparison against similarly sized/priced competitors like the RAV4, CX-30, etc.)

[@davep2945]

Marc, unfortunately, TFL as well as many others like them tend to mistake fanboy assertions and their own wishful thinking about a brand for manufacturer claims. They use this Mandela effect sort of scenario to make unfounded claims and get others that they know will join the fray as haters of the brand to jump on board increasing views and likes thereby increasing revenue. They don't care about what's fair or what's right or accurate. They only care about views. So they do something a manufacturer never even remotely asserts about their car and then pretend there's fault with the car. Fanboys of other brands bash and belittle even when they've never dropped a wheel of their "real" 4x4 off the pavement and have no idea what it would or wouldn't do. It's not just Subaru they do this with either. It's just that Subaru decided they'd had enough with their B.S and pulled press vehicles from them and they've been bitter ever since.

[@anthonyjulson8840]

If you move the shifter to manual mode, you get a tiny bit better gearing for better hill climbing.

[@jdjarc]

Honest and brave review, 👍👍

[@stout_tossme7541]

Great video and honest. We do appreciate that Tommy. I do think it is funny that Subaru was upset that y'all went and did what they say could be done then threw a fit about you being honest. I remember that video and the aftermath. Lol

[@jbaugh8329]

I have a lifted Jeep Wj and my wife and I don’t do any serious off-roading much anymore plus the mpg is horrible like 10-13 on the highway and I’ve been really interested in the crosstrek it’s good to see these videos!

[@frankweathersbee2553]

I watched "driving sports TV" drive one & had tires lifted tettering & made it up a trail, I think maybe a better driver.

[@SteveBl]

You showed us the truth here, insofar as Subaru capability is concerned. Good job! Now I will suggest that you never give the Subaru a lift. At most, put relatively light weight all terrain tires on it and air them down when you nearly reach the rational limits to what a crossover can do. The 8.7 inch Subarus are great, efficient daily driver vehicles that handle bad weather and weekend outdoor adventures. They are not “off roaders” which is a good thing. Most folks, myself included, shouldn’t be driving 4 Runners around every day. Neither should we expect our Subarus to act like 4 Runners on steep rocky inclines. I don’t mind hiking instead of driving everywhere. I think way too many people are trying to make Subarus into vehicle based overlanders in rough terrain. They put way too much weight on them. It doesn’t work well, that’s what ladder frame trucks are for. Regardless, I don’t believe Subaru misrepresents their vehicles. They don’t show their own vehicles doing things they cannot do. Rather, I see a lot of enthusiasts try stunts with Subarus they were not designed for, as though Subarus were JKs or something. Subarus do in fact traverse most forest roads quite well. They aren’t meant for the off roader looking for obstacles to conquer. I’ve owned both types of vehicles and drove both off the pavement. The Subarus are great for what they were designed for.

[@jamespostle6894]

I think this is a much more fair subaru review than ones you've done in the past well done.

[@jeffjaje5568]

Pretty fair - it does really well on the types of roads and trails it's designed for, less so on steeper stuff. I'd love to see a wilderness version of the Crosstrek.

[@dereklance9415]

i love tommy’s reviews!

[@Central-Scrutinizer]

Agree with you on testing a run-of-the-mill, naturally aspirated Rav4 LE or XLE with the automatic and the new drive modes. Been wondering about them for some time but people only test the Limited or Adventure with the rear clutches. The Rav4 LE is closer to the Crosstrek in function.

[@KC14141]

I love my Crosstrek! I also put some Toyo open country at3’s on it. I’ve taken it on a lot of dirt and trails as well, it has never got me stuck. But I’m definitely looking to sell it next year and buying a Tacoma!!

[@AWDfreak]

Finally, someone who is honest about what they have. Hope that all works out for ya! You might miss the MPG and handling, but when you go places your Subie couldn't take you, hopefully you will have validated your vehicle change to a real off-road capable vehicle as a better fit for you and your lifestyle.

[@KC14141]

@@AWDfreak I’m excited for the change! The Subaru is great but when I’m off-road I never feel like it has the confidence that a true off-roader is, I’m always looking out for big obstacles because it simply can’t do them, or if it does it struggles a lot!! But it has also lead me to very cool spots and it’s a great adventure car but not a true off roader.

[@randyparmesan1383]

Get yourself a Taco

[@freedom_foz_6337]

Thank you for continuing to test the stock form. Please throw a few mods on and or bring a Subaru owner to test the trail. Every vehicle is different and I think you got over cliffhanger because you started to learn how to drive a Subaru off road. It takes sometime to adjust also let’s not forget you are testing the smallest engine offered on a stock base model. Keep up the good work!

[@craigcampbell1843]

We love our bright orange Crosstrek. It’s way more comfortable and better on the street for daily use than a Jeep is and we can sleep in it. It’s never going to be a rock crawler but we go camping and off roading in it all the time and have never gotten stuck. It’s a great little car.

[@BrainFuck10]

You guys should compare it against the old Subaru Baja and Baja vs Outback wilderness

[@saint_keeblerElf]

I would like to see how this compares to say the jeep compass latitude since its in the same price point. I run into a lot of folks who are deciding between the two.

[@kyle5608]

My buddy had a 2014 forester with a manual and the Subaru drive by wire system would just start cutting power like mad if he had traction control on and so much as spun a tire and was also super lagey. I even noticed the pedal lag at dirt fish rally school in their built STI's the car wouldn't give me power when I asked for it and then when it, I could literally get on the throttle, one Mississippi, and then expect an engine response then in 1k RPM the turbo would think about spooling up. I loved the experience and am grateful to my instructors for teaching me how do do rally things but having to learn to drive around the subaru engine control system was rather annoying.

[@hallkbrdz]

If you're going to take it off road, I highly recommend Primitive Racing's skidplates. Love the ones on my '05 OBXT.

[@michaeldbhawker3556]

Light offroading is an understatement. Its a fkn car.

[@GTFORDMAN]

you should try it in an old crown vic and see if it will do it!

[@JustinWalker77]

I had one, a 2 door 85, lol. It would have made it up.

[@dougpendleton1266]

Good job!

[@levicharles996]

I was always curious how the car would handle with some weight in the car such as camping supplies and people.

[@jjr007]

I have seen that in most places reviewers have had problems with the Crosstrek is when one of the tires on a steep loose section of the courses gets up against a rock, or steep hole, that acts like a chock block you would use to keep your car stationary when jacking it up.

[@OPWasatchReptiles]

The manual does not have these issues. I’ve sent my crosstrek up some crazy trails, snow mud and all. 1st gear, KO2 and average 30mpg

[@thejenkins7038]

That’s good to hear! I’ve got a 2021 trek with 215/75r15 toyo open country tires. I’ve mostly stuck to forest service roads, nothing super crazy. I’ll have to find some more challenging terrain to put it to the test!

[@robs6733]

Bwahahaha!! Sure you have.

[@robs6733]

@@thejenkins7038 make sure you have cell service...so you can call for help when it gets stuck!🤣🤣

[@commenterperson4481]

Wow, this is quite an impressive coverage of this Subaru.

[@RKmndo]

Have you installed skids, rockers, a rear diff-locker, and some siped ATs/MTs yet? Siped Geolandar mudders are offered in 235/75R15 or 225/65R17 sizes that can fit 2nd-gen Crosstreks. Anti-swaybar disconnects might help. I think Cusco offers an LSD that would fit the front too. I'd still be concerned about damaging the vulnerable, plastic bumpercovers offroad. Traction boards are getting more popular in the West these days. I got a multi-mount winch too.

[@MrGarfield4]

I would be curious to see how a Mazda CX-30 would tackle this same test,

[@rod22lt]

Same, along w the rav4 and trailblazer activ. Three way competition!

[@AWDfreak]

@@Introverted_Outlander Maybe with AWD and a manual. But I know most manufacturers just don't bother with that combo.

[@patricklinkous]

@@Introverted_Outlander The CX-30 and the Crosstrek are around the same size, but the Crosstrek is larger in every dimension.

[@alexsaturnino1481]

It is good that you review the 2.0

[@ZachMauch]

Noticed those aired down tires around 8:45. Nice!

[@IronmanV5]

If only they still had the dual range tranny. Real frustrating part is knowing that overseas, specifically in Australia, there are shops the specialize in swapping in dual range trannies from the early '00 into newer vehicles. That, a turbo or supercharger, and LSDs would transform this.

[@IronmanV5]

@Jeff Bruce There's a LOT of space between cities.....

[@IronmanV5]

@Jeff Bruce And back roads. Paved and unpaved.

[@michaelvoelker393]

Hey @tfloffroad can you please test a Ford Explorer off-road with its different terrain modes and such? I have a 2013 Ford Explorer xlt 3.5 with a 3” lift, kmc wheels, and general grabber at2’s that does phenomenal in light off-roading but I would love to see how it would do in heavier settings and how the new explorer compares

[@peterpatrick620]

. . . great review! . . . hoping Tommy tries out the manual Subaru Convenience . . .

[@greym6436]

Tommy, did you try using manual mode? I never really see anyone making use of the feature. I have 17' model yr and have had no problems doing offroading rugged forest roads like fourpeaks here in Az. I also do not put the vehicle in serious situations.

[@ericgallagan946]

I just ordered a Crosstrek Sport as a commuter car for the wife. We test drove several other crossovers. For the price I think the Crosstrek felt like the best value. I wanted to like the Bronco Sport, but I kept feeling drivetrain vibrations (my wife felt it too). I walked away pretty disappointed. The RAV4 Adventure & TRD feel great, but I felt like the price tag was a little too high as most dealers are asking $5000 over msrp. We have a Sienna and love it, but for a crossover I wish they were a bit cheaper. Looking forward to taking delivery of the Crosstrek though. I drive an Xterra… so if we need to do any off-roading I have that covered.

[@frankweathersbee2553]

I bought the 2021 sport & love it, I work at a jeep dealership & the small jeeps are junk compared to the Subaru ride handling & mpg, I drive aggressively and average 27mpg.

[@TheTonytodd]

Good test of the Subaru. I noticed in this test and others when testing hill descent control that the brake lights are activated. Does hill descent control automatically activate the brake lights in vehicles that have that feature?

[@pablomoreno1999]

i've said it before and i'll say it again. awd is very good, it works, w esaw the roller test. It's just that CVT, plus elevation, plus a NA petrol engine....traction control can shift power, it just doesn't get enough torque to work with on the first place.... btw great review, very honest, and would totally support the idea of a crosstrek wilderness, i know your jeep willys sport is a different market gap but i'd love to see this against it, you know to really show how big of a gap there is between a good softroader and the entry level serious offroader, i think it would make a very interesting, not so obvious point for some suv drivers....

[@kevinthomson6324]

My 2005 legacy gt wagon I owned 8 years ago had limited slip center and rear differentials. Much simpler system and more effective. But I know why they moved away from that. Was super fun for me but most people wouldn’t be ok with a very drift happy system in snow. Never really tried my legacy on anything other than forest roads due to very little ground clearance. But in snow of any depth you would beat anything off the line and struggle to find a hill you couldn’t climb with ease.

[@Wrang15]

I have never had a need for 4 low in any truck i have owned. I had a Bronco as a beach buggy for years a d would pull stuff out on the beach. Used it for hunting too. Now a have a f250 for the same stuff pluss fire wood cutting on logging roads in PA... Big change is dump the oem tires..... I have a 2021 outback xt and dumped the oem tires. They were horid on my dirt roads to my house in mud or snow and ice... i dont get the cvt power issue. I have two outbacks 2014 2.5 and the 2021 xt they just spin tires on ice and snow going up one hill near me. I do turn off TC and VDC. Only knock about the outbacks over the f250 is they cant fit chaines so i have run sudded tires to get up the hill to my house when its icy... snows tires just dont make it too much packed snow from snowmobiles.

[@Kristian_Saile]

Would be curious how the manual version would compare. I had some great experiences with an 04 outback XT with AT’s in the dirt. Limited slip and their active torque distribution auto worked awesome and that 2.5 turbo had great torque. That’s an under appreciated car of the 2000’s for sure.

[@AWDfreak]

Those cars now are absurdly-overpriced because flat-bill wearing vapeybois want to vape with those turbo engines next.

[@toddfeltman3748]

I've owned a couple of Subies, and I'm under no delusion that they're good for anything other than very mild over-landing, and snowy roads. They're underpowered, and the CVT blows. Software can only do so much, and then you'd better have some hardware to back it up. Thank you for a very fair review!

[@fliptophiphop1894]

It's the emissions and mpg requirements that force them into cvt which is purposely limited so as to not roast the belt. I'm sooooo interested to see what the 6spd would do.

[@luchaDor]

If that's true, then every car manufacturer would be 'forced' into a CVT. It was a conscious business decision by Subaru, no one forced them to use it.

[@MentholWi]

Would love to see some testing with the Ascent…. Maybe in the works? One can only hope.

[@JoeGomez]

It looked like it was having trouble with all 4 wheels on the ground. From the angle looking down the hill you had a time when both front wheels were on the ground and it didn't move anywhere.

[@IamChucky_]

Was really looking into a Suburu as my next commuter car. Not anymore! Thanks.

[@nithin2767]

Would like to see how a manual Crosstrek performs or maybe an old manual forester. You guys mostly tested the automatics only on subarus. Would like to see how a subaru performs with a manual with traction on just 2 wheels and how the computer responds to wheel spin.

[@iornhawk321]

How does the jeep renegade trailhawk compare to this?

[@randyparmesan1383]

That CAR is a POS.

[@subie2021]

It'll breakdown on the highway

[@luchaDor]

Yep, its a director competitor, so hopefully they'll bring one with as a comparison next time!

[@ryancale9719]

As many said they need the manual. Aside from the complaints about the cvt and computer cutting power, the manual has a better AWD system. Old school Subaru full time, the cvt has a fwd based system that is common in crossovers.

[@PatrickRich]

I remember the 1st time I did the white rim I asked a park ranger that was driving by in his F250 if they really use the winch a lot and his response was "mostly for Coloradans in Subarus".

[@We-Cook-It]

You should try it with the Crosstrek Sport model to see how it responds if even better

[@shkotayd9749]

Cherokee Trailhawk. For essentially a car/crossover, I had excellent experiences with it in all kinds of rotten conditions. A proper low range let me have all kinds of fun. But, it could only be lifted so much and branches and other stuff tended to make hash out of the CV boots on both sides. Heck if Subaru got rid of that ridiculous overhang, people could take hills with a bit of momentum to make up for the failure of the weak CVT.

[@howlerzgorge4005]

I'd love to see you guys get the Manuel transmission, I'd be very interested to see if it suffers the same downsides.

[@mikethompson7406]

Do you list where all these places are? On our trip to Breckenridge from Fort Collins area I found Gold Hill road! I'd like to go take my Outback to some of these places as well, while I wait for my 6th Gen 4Runner.

[@glenncartwright6136]

I think it would be interesting to see this same test done with a 2020 or newer Ford Escape. The Escape doesn't have all the fancy off-road modes of the Subaru, but it does have a fairly competent AWD system, as well as not being hampered by a CVT. I don't expect the Escape to get very far up Cliffhanger, but it would be nice to see how well it does in mild off-road situations for those who are considering the Escape for their family truckster.

[@carrdoug99]

I don't know how Subaru could have a problem with this one. Really great, honest review. Any Crosstrek owners with a torq locker living in Colorado, please contact Tommy. Would love to see if that's enough to compensate for the CVT.😊

[@AWDfreak]

It won't. The CVT cuts too much power. The Subaru needs better programming, and it won't come from a CVT-equipped Subaru, it would do better with a conventional automatic or manual.

[@carrdoug99]

@@AWDfreak Yeah, that's pretty much what I would guess.

[@mmiller1188]

Have you considered something like the torq locker? If it didn't break traction in the rear , I wonder if it would keep pulling.

[@tritchie6272]

I would really like to see the Wilderness addition try it. And I want Tommy to be the one trying it. For some reason I feel that his Subaru reviews are more fair and stuff.While I don't expect the Wilderness addition to be a 4Runner (and I don't think Subaru is saying it is) I do think it will be better off road than the regular Subaru.

[@daver1959]

I'm a Subaru fan and I like the Crosstrek a lot. I want my 22 year old son to buy one as it's a great choice for Minnesota winters. That said, I'm pretty sure my Cherokee Trailhawk would conquer that last hill with ease.