Hidden History of the Shroud of Turin | feat. Jack Markwardt

[@anthonypereira3272]

Excellent,we need a periodic update. I’m a believer in the authenticity,a student since 1978

[@JeanSmith-sz4uu]

The Bible says the original shroud was not in ONE piece as in the shroud of Turin. This is why the shroud of Turin is fake: “Peter and the other disciple started out for the tomb. They were both running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He stooped and looked in and saw the linen wrappings lying there, but he didn’t go in. Then Simon Peter arrived and went inside. He also noticed the linen wrappings lying there, while the cloth that had covered Jesus’ head was folded up and lying apart from the other wrappings.” (John 20:3-7) Also, as a member of the Baha’i Faith, and based on the biblical narrative and rational reasoning, we have to accept that the resurrection of Jesus or any of the prophets or individuals within the biblical narrative that they are spiritual and not physical resurrections even when literal words are used. Here are the biblical reasoning behind what is being said: Jesus called himself “the resurrection” even before he was crucified: Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die”. (John 11:25 NIV) This is Jesus himself speaking, so it was the belief in him and his teachings that accounted as true resurrection and not the crucifixion and belief in the reanimation of the physical body. Belief in him and his words revived those who were spiritually dead and brought them forth from their tomb of ignorance. This is all spiritual and not a physical phenomenon. What does the Bible teach about the physical body and resurrection? It says: “Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications”… (Hebrew 5:7 KJV) Therefore, the Bible teaches that Jesus had flesh or a physical body during his life on earth but that there came a time when he was no longer in possession of a physical body (he was a Spirit/Soul) . Read the whole chapter so you can see the whole content. What else does the Bible teach about physical body or flesh? Apostle Paul himself stated: “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption“. (1 Corinthians 15:50 KJV) Therefore, no physical body which is a perishable biological entity can have any association or entrance into the Kingdom of God. After all, the Bible teaches that: “God is a Spirit” (John 4:24 KJV) and not a physical body, and that the Word which is Christ himself had existed as a Spirit (a nonphysical entity) long before even the creation of what we call earth. The Bible teaches that all that Jesus taught 2000 years ago were all revealed by the Father. Jesus made sure to tell Simon that flesh and blood are not important in this equation--not even his: “Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.” (Matthew 16:17 NIV) Everything Jesus Christ taught and spoke, about his flesh and body had a spiritual meaning and cannot be taken literally even though Jesus Christ was using “literal words” (check the Greek lexicon) related to “flesh and blood”: “Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” (John 6:53-58 NIV) Those who took him “literally”, later on they were accused of being cannibals. Read the history and this will become clear to you. Therefore, much of the language that Jesus used must be viewed and interpreted allegorical or symbolic. Jesus taught that it is the spirit that matters and not the flesh. The body has no importance: “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you-they are full of the Spirit and life.” (John 6:63 NIV) People had a very hard time understanding the symbolic and allegorical language that Jesus used--this frustrated Jesus often and said: “Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.” (John 8:43 NIV) The phrase, “unable to hear” that Jesus Christ uses is obviously not a literal physical hearing but the inability to hear his words with spiritual hearing. Consider this that if people 2000 years ago had a hard time understanding Jesus Christ, there is no wonder why there are over 43,000 conflicting sects within Christianity. This should humble all Christians. What else can we learn from the topic of resurrection and spiritual truths? Well, Mary Magdalene couldn’t recognize Jesus after the resurrection: “At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?” Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.” (John 20:14-15 NIV) If this was a “literal”, glorified, bodily resurrection of Jesus, why did he appear like the gardener and was not recognized by Mary? Apparently Jesus did not look glorified, he just looked like someone else--not a shining angel, but like the gardener. We also read that the Lord Jesus Christ appeared quite differently to apostle Paul: About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, ‘Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?’ “ ‘Who are you, Lord?’ I asked. “ ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,’ he replied.” (Acts 9:4 KJV) Others who were with Paul did not see anything. A physical body is not invisible. Everyone should be able to see it. Moreover, physical bodies cannot go through doors and walls either, but yet, Jesus appears into a room with the disciples when all doors were locked: “A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” (John 20:26 NIV) So, what is my point? The point is Jesus Christ can do whatever he wishes. He can dematerialize from one place and materialize in another place. He can appear as a flash of light from heaven to one person, or as a gardener to another, and he can even eat a piece of fish right in front of you to prove he can do anything. Therefore, we are not questioning what Christ can or cannot do, however, when it comes to the physical resurrection, all the stories we read about his appearances, do not indicate the essential characteristics of the physical body of Jesus Christ as the flesh that he had before his crucifixion, and the Bible in numerous verses makes this very clear. More importantly, if we believe that Jesus Christ has been great eternally in the past without a physical body and long before he was even born, then, he was not in need of a physical body after his crucifixion either, just as Moses and Elijah didn’t need physical bodies either, when they both had appeared to Jesus Christ on Mount Tabor and then vanished from the sight. Why should anyone assume that after Jesus Christ’s physical birth from the womb of Mary, he had, forever, trapped his true eternal reality in some physical body whether it is assumed to be a regular body or some so called glorified body? To insist on this, is tantamount to limiting Jesus Christ to our earthly limitations. The Bible makes it clear that the resurrection of Jesus has much deeper spiritual meanings and should never be interpreted as a literal physical event. Please note that stating that Christ’s resurrection was a spiritual event and not a physical one, doesn’t mean Jesus Christ was incapable of the supernatural powers--it is that Jesus didn’t need any form of a physical body, and that his greatness transcends beyond any connection with the physical reality. Moreover, in numerous passages, the body of Christ has been interpreted to be the body of the believers or the church itself, and therefore, the resurrection is a spiritual reality which demonstrates the spiritual triumph of the cause of Christ, symbolized as a “body” which is none other than the body of the believers rising to promulgate his cause (the body) fearlessly: “And the church is his body”… (Ephesians 1:23 NLT) …”and build up the church, the body of Christ.” (Ephesians 4:12 NLT) “Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body.“ (Colossians 1:18 MLT) “And we are members of his body.” (Ephesians 5:30 NLT) “All of you together are Christ’s body, and each of you is a part of it.“ (1 Corinthians 12:27 NLT) Resurrection of all the manifestations of God are spiritual in nature and not physical or material. I have studied the Bible and continue to study it. By the way, I am a member of the Baha’i Faith and as a Baha’i I do believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing.….” (John 6:63 NIV)

[@libelle8124]

That was brilliant! The knowledge of this man is tremendous. The way he explained his case is totally great. Please bring him on with more of this. This was fantastic. Thank you.

[@TheGraciousGuest]

Oh, Jack will be back!

[@jimbertrand8587]

Mike, I sincerely appreciate your concluding reflections. In the end, it's not about winning a debate, but rather, 'what type of response does God want us to have regarding the Shroud?' Indifference? I don't think so. A greater love of God and our neighbor,? Certainly. Mike, there are hundreds of books on the Shroud and we've pretty much covered the science. But no one, has done a thorough job of sharing the stories of "conversions" that have touched people's lives as a result of the Shroud. I suggest that you could blaze a new trail by having some future programs with these persons. I know of. a few.

[@TheGraciousGuest]

That sounds great, Jim! I’m actually in the process of considering future shows. Feel free to DM me through my website, thegraciousguest.org.

[@joemarino5141]

Great show! And found Mike's comments at the very end to be very insightful.

[@martinkent333]

Type Moses online and discover that there is no evidence for Exodus and Moses. Christians have no need for facts, they have faith...........

[@wipo3654]

Yes, it is literally a GREAT UNBIBLICAL SHOW. According to the GOSPELS' CONTEXT the Shroud of Turin CANNOT BE the authentic burial cloth of Jesus Christ! This can be checked quite simply by trying to answer the following questions on the basis of the Bible: (1) What is the correct bible translation of the Greek word “sindón” - “a linen Shroud” or “linen cloth”? There is no indefinite article "a" in the original Greek texts of Matthew 27:59, Mark 15:46 and Luke 23:53. So, the CONTEXT is decisive and the correct unbiased translation/interpretation of SINDON must be "linen cloth" because Joseph of Arimathea bought ALL the needed burial linen cloth: bandages/strips (OTHONION) and the head cloth (SOUDARION). And John didn't mention SINDON in his gospel because he also didn't mention the all-inclusive purchase of Joseph of Arimathea. John focused more on the burial and resurrection details and there is nothing like the Shroud. (2) What happened to the “burial spices” - a 32 kg sticky mixture of myrrh and aloes? John 19 39Nicodemus, who had previously come to Jesus at night, also brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds [32 KG]. 40So they took the body of Jesus and wrapped it in linen cloths [OTHONION] with [META] the spices, according to the Jewish burial custom. Nicodemus was a leading Rabbi who knew WHAT was needed, HOW MUCH and that there was ENOUGH TIME to do the burial spicing. Jesus died around 3 pm and Sabbath started around 6 pm. Enough time to take the body from the cross, to wrap/bind the body in linen cloths (OTHONION) W I T H the spices between those bandages/strips according to the burial custom of Jews at that time and to transport Jesus to the nearby rock-tomb. (3) What the women intended to do after Sabbath - “anointing” or “burial spicing”? As shown above, the burial spicing was completely done by Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus. This was observed by the women. After Sabbath they intended to ANOINT Jesus' head as an act of honour, removing and readding the head cloth (SOUDARION). (4) Why to use an extra head cloth „soudarion“ when wrapping a body in something like the Shroud? The head cloth (SOUDARION) fully covered the head and the rest of the body was wrapped/bound in linen cloths (OTHONION]) with the spices between those bandages/strips. The head cloth was part of the burial custom of (rich) Jews at that time, as we can see in the gospel of John: John 11:44 44The man [Lazarus] who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth [SOUDARION]. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.” (5) What convinced the people in the 1st century that Jesus rose the third day? So, there is NO EVIDENCE for something like the Shroud in the gospels. It clearly contradicts the context and it didn‘t play any role from the beginning of the real church of Christ. No Shroud was and is needed to believe in the resurrection and overall in Jesus Christ: Joseph of Arimathea bought all the needed linen cloth (SINDON). That means bandages/strips (OTHONION) and the head cloth (SOUDARION). Nicodemus organised about 32 kg spices. That means a sticky mixture of myrrh and aloes. Jesus was taken from the cross and maybe he was also washed. Then the body - except the head - was wrapped/bound in situ with (META) the spices between the bandages/strips (OTHONION), according to the burial custom of (rich) Jews at that time. The head was covered with the head cloth (SOUDARION). Even then Jesus was carried to the nearby rock-tomb and was laid in there. The rock-tomb was closed with a stone and sealed. This was observed by the women from a certain distance. After Sabbath the women intended to anoint Jesus head removing and readding the head cloth (SOUDARION) but ... 1 Corinthians 15 1Now, brothers [siblings], I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephasa and then to the Twelve. 6After that, He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one of untimely birth. All you have to know about Jesus Christ and for faith is in the Scripture. Read and trust the Bible! 2 Timothy 3 16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17that the man [woman] of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. More details in a video presentation/description and comments on my channel. Click icon W to the left-top of this comment. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. Be blessed - SHALOM!

[@shaundonohue4879]

Great show, very interesting as always Mike, thankyou.

[@TheGraciousGuest]

My pleasure! Please feel free to share!

[@oliviaoreilly4645]

The shroud was known to them as sacred and to be preserve for the future generation

[@fvin6233]

very interesting and well researched. Thank you

[@anthonypereira3272]

Fascinating research

[@byteme9718]

A perfect example of beginning with a conclusion and weaving lies, myths and a few facts together to support it.

[@TheGraciousGuest]

Doesn’t exactly strike me as the most polite, intellectually curious criticism of Jack’s argument. I’m sure he’d be more than happy to discuss it with you if you were genuinely interested. I encourage you to reach out to him.

[@byteme9718]

@@TheGraciousGuest I have little tolerance of fools and liars. Fairy tales are great, that is unless you take them seriously. Take genies for example, who doesn't love Disney's Aladdin with Robin Williams voicing the genie? Do you believe in genies because they're appeared in a book?

[@demmith]

Great interview! I have the book - it's hard to put down. Good going Mike, thank you!

[@TheGraciousGuest]

My pleasure! Jack will be back for sure..

[@demmith]

@@TheGraciousGuest awesome! I leaned heavily on his book for the Shroud History paper I wrote for the Post-graduate Certificate in Shroud Studies course I am taking.

[@martinkent333]

No critical thinking skills, eh?

[@kimfleury]

​@@martinkent333critical thinking leads me to conclude that you want people to agree with you without further discussion.

[@martinkent333]

@@kimfleury YOU STRUGGLE WITH FACTS AND HAVE AN OPINION? WHAT UP? NO EDUCATION? UNARGUABILITY IS YOUR MASTER BUT YOU HAVEN'T LEARNED HUMILITY OR FACTS. LET'S CHAT ABOUT GROWING UP AND ,MASTERING REALITY. I READ THE NEW YORK TIMES AND SO I AM THE MOST WELL INFORMED PERSON IN THE ROOM, NEIGHBOUR. DISAGREEING WITH FACTS LIKE GRAVITY IS A GOOD IDEA? LET'S CHAT ABOUT YOUR INABILITY TO FIND CLUES IF THAT SOUNDS RUDE THEN YOU AREN'T EVEN CLOSE TO TRIPLE-CHECKING FACTS. CREDIBILITY SHOULD NEVER BE A CHALLENGE FOR GROWN ADULTS, DUDE. PLEASED TO MEET YOU! WHEN THE SHROUD WAS CARBON DATED IT WAS NOT EVEN CLOSE.

[@WinItReigns]

May the Force Be With You. May the FAITH Be With You.

[@lesmen4]

face symetry of Shroud of Turin matches divine mercy picture

[@waynesumner1829]

Mike's comments at the end of this podcast are very well-said and true! The shroud's authenticity reputation needs some " Non-Catholic witnesses. And venerartion of the Shroud is not a Faith-based"Evidence of things not seen "Spiritually Minded" form of true Worship! Without GOD- given Faith, True Christianity is dead matter. We MUST walk by Faith, not by sight. There is no Shroud, or Crucifix or Bible or flesh and blood bodies in the Kingdom of Heaven. In fact there is no record of history in Heaven. Only the Creations/Revelations of Light are real. All else is our egoic nightmares. Time, place, space and mortal physical transitory ephemeral bodies of matter are all illusions. Only the TRUTH is True having no opposite.

[@freebird1118]

Your comments are well said, and true. Thanks

[@Confessingjesuschrist]

I've seen ideas the Byzantine Empire featured the Shroud in Constantinople but when the crusaders sacked it during the fourth crusade is was taken by the west. I'm sure I will learn as I watch your video!

[@pinkmoscato7851]

what about guadalupe tilma. has science ever explained it?

[@TheGraciousGuest]

Oh, just you wait! I’ve got some big plans for Guadalupe Tilma content in the near future :-) Stay tuned!

[@Confessingjesuschrist]

It has not been explained. I've seen it said the color when analyzed closely does not even touch the material and how it appears it was made in a single moment so could not be considered an art work of brush strokes or anything. If you learn church history, you will see often that Mary appears to people and gives an icon of herself and Jesus to display on a church that will be built. I noticed a similar story in the Kiev Caves Paterikon about the Monastery there.

[@denedbell13]

Thank you!

[@TheGraciousGuest]

Thank YOU!

[@jeravincer]

The Shroud asks a troubling question of us all ... just like Jesus. Telling my daughters about it this morning, it clearly draws people in. But we all agreed, faith is still essential to be a follower of Jesus, regardless of what the Shroud reveals.

[@JeanSmith-sz4uu]

💐💐💐💐💐 The Bible says the original shroud was not in ONE piece as in the case of the shroud of Turin. This is why the shroud of Turin is fake: “Peter and the other disciple started out for the tomb. They were both running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. He stooped and looked in and saw the linen wrappings lying there, but he didn’t go in. Then Simon Peter arrived and went inside. He also noticed the linen wrappings lying there, while the cloth that had covered Jesus’ head was folded up and lying apart from the other wrappings.” (John 20:3-7) Also, as a member of the Baha’i Faith, and based on the biblical narrative and rational reasoning, we have to accept that the resurrection of Jesus or any of the prophets or individuals within the biblical narrative that they are spiritual and not physical resurrections even when literal words are used. Here are the biblical reasoning behind what is being said: Jesus called himself “the resurrection” even before he was crucified: Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die”. (John 11:25 NIV) This is Jesus himself speaking, so it was the belief in him and his teachings that accounted as true resurrection and not the crucifixion and belief in the reanimation of the physical body. Belief in him and his words revived those who were spiritually dead and brought them forth from their tomb of ignorance. This is all spiritual and not a physical phenomenon. What does the Bible teach about the physical body and resurrection? It says: “Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications”… (Hebrew 5:7 KJV) Therefore, the Bible teaches that Jesus had flesh or a physical body during his life on earth but that there came a time when he was no longer in possession of a physical body (he was a Spirit/Soul) . Read the whole chapter so you can see the whole content. What else does the Bible teach about physical body or flesh? Apostle Paul himself stated: “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption“. (1 Corinthians 15:50 KJV) Therefore, no physical body which is a perishable biological entity can have any association or entrance into the Kingdom of God. After all, the Bible teaches that: “God is a Spirit” (John 4:24 KJV) and not a physical body, and that the Word which is Christ himself had existed as a Spirit (a nonphysical entity) long before even the creation of what we call earth. The Bible teaches that all that Jesus taught 2000 years ago were all revealed by the Father. Jesus made sure to tell Simon that flesh and blood are not important in this equation--not even his: “Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.” (Matthew 16:17 NIV) Everything Jesus Christ taught and spoke, about his flesh and body had a spiritual meaning and cannot be taken literally even though Jesus Christ was using “literal words” (check the Greek lexicon) related to “flesh and blood”: “Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.” (John 6:53-58 NIV) Those who took him “literally”, later on they were accused of being cannibals. Read the history and this will become clear to you. Therefore, much of the language that Jesus used must be viewed and interpreted allegorical or symbolic. Jesus taught that it is the spirit that matters and not the flesh. The body has no importance: “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you-they are full of the Spirit and life.” (John 6:63 NIV) People had a very hard time understanding the symbolic and allegorical language that Jesus used--this frustrated Jesus often and said: “Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say.” (John 8:43 NIV) The phrase, “unable to hear” that Jesus Christ uses is obviously not a literal physical hearing but the inability to hear his words with spiritual hearing. Consider this that if people 2000 years ago had a hard time understanding Jesus Christ, there is no wonder why there are over 43,000 conflicting sects within Christianity. This should humble all Christians. What else can we learn from the topic of resurrection and spiritual truths? Well, Mary Magdalene couldn’t recognize Jesus after the resurrection: “At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus. He asked her, “Woman, why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?” Thinking he was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him.” (John 20:14-15 NIV) If this was a “literal”, glorified, bodily resurrection of Jesus, why did he appear like the gardener and was not recognized by Mary? Apparently Jesus did not look glorified, he just looked like someone else--not a shining angel, but like the gardener. We also read that the Lord Jesus Christ appeared quite differently to apostle Paul: About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, ‘Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?’ “ ‘Who are you, Lord?’ I asked. “ ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,’ he replied.” (Acts 9:4 KJV) Others who were with Paul did not see anything. A physical body is not invisible. Everyone should be able to see it. Moreover, physical bodies cannot go through doors and walls either, but yet, Jesus appears into a room with the disciples when all doors were locked: “A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” (John 20:26 NIV) So, what is my point? The point is Jesus Christ can do whatever he wishes. He can dematerialize from one place and materialize in another place. He can appear as a flash of light from heaven to one person, or as a gardener to another, and he can even eat a piece of fish right in front of you to prove he can do anything. Therefore, we are not questioning what Christ can or cannot do, however, when it comes to the physical resurrection, all the stories we read about his appearances, do not indicate the essential characteristics of the physical body of Jesus Christ as the flesh that he had before his crucifixion, and the Bible in numerous verses makes this very clear. More importantly, if we believe that Jesus Christ has been great eternally in the past without a physical body and long before he was even born, then, he was not in need of a physical body after his crucifixion either, just as Moses and Elijah didn’t need physical bodies either, when they both had appeared to Jesus Christ on Mount Tabor and then vanished from the sight. Why should anyone assume that after Jesus Christ’s physical birth from the womb of Mary, he had, forever, trapped his true eternal reality in some physical body whether it is assumed to be a regular body or some so called glorified body? To insist on this, is tantamount to limiting Jesus Christ to our earthly limitations. The Bible makes it clear that the resurrection of Jesus has much deeper spiritual meanings and should never be interpreted as a literal physical event. Please note that stating that Christ’s resurrection was a spiritual event and not a physical one, doesn’t mean Jesus Christ was incapable of the supernatural powers--it is that Jesus didn’t need any form of a physical body, and that his greatness transcends beyond any connection with the physical reality. Moreover, in numerous passages, the body of Christ has been interpreted to be the body of the believers or the church itself, and therefore, the resurrection is a spiritual reality which demonstrates the spiritual triumph of the cause of Christ, symbolized as a “body” which is none other than the body of the believers rising to promulgate his cause (the body) fearlessly: “And the church is his body”… (Ephesians 1:23 NLT) …”and build up the church, the body of Christ.” (Ephesians 4:12 NLT) “Christ is also the head of the church, which is his body.“ (Colossians 1:18 MLT) “And we are members of his body.” (Ephesians 5:30 NLT) “All of you together are Christ’s body, and each of you is a part of it.“ (1 Corinthians 12:27 NLT) Resurrection of all the manifestations of God are spiritual in nature and not physical or material. I have studied the Bible and continue to study it. By the way, I am a member of the Baha’i Faith and as a Baha’i I do believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. “The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing.….” (John 6:63 NIV)

[@lenawagner6405]

True, the shroud of Turin belonged to a Templar called dr Moley. Also crucified. Esides in one of the rophets it is stated that Jesus gave His back to the beaters and His cheeks to those who pluck out hair and it also mentions that he was pierced. I am sure the body was washed before wrapped, and the blood could have dried out on His body. The shroud is I believe real but did not belong to Jesus. I believe lots of people were crucified of whom we know nothing.

[@ddzl6209]

Nobody need to defend the truth, only a few bunch of satanic cult believing idiots of sola scriptura a man made tradition invented by a devil possessed man are desperately trying to disprove the shroud of Turin in order to discredit by making a false testimony against the Church of saints that Jesus established under the stewardship of Peter but the shroud itself stood up to protect the devinely testimonial masterpiece of Jesus's resurrection which no human science can even comprehend nor will ever be and those bastards are not realising the fact that what they are doing is tantamount to falsely testifying against Jesus himself just like the ones who crucified him

[@lenawagner6405]

Read Isaiah 50. Jesus was whiplashed on His back and His beard was plucked out!!!! This shroud shows too much beard!

[@lenawagner6405]

Also read book The Second Messiah by C Knight and R Lomas. Shroud belonged to Templar J DE Moley.

[@ddzl6209]

@@JeanSmith-sz4uu only a few bunch of satanic cult believing bastards of sola scriptura a man made tradition invented by a devil possessed man are desperately trying to disprove the shroud of Turin in order to discredit by making a false testimony against the Church of saints that Jesus established under the stewardship of Peter but the shroud itself stood up to protect the devinely testimonial masterpiece of Jesus's resurrection which no human science can even comprehend nor will ever be

[@jy7383]

THE importance of the holy shroud is surely the proof of what our lord Jesus chose to suffer ---- when one drop of HIS BLOOD shed when He was circumcised would have saved the world ------ rather than lifelong anticipation

[@wipo3654]

I ONLY want to understand the Shroud from bible/gospel point of view: Why there was a need to use something extra to cover the face/head that was already wrapped by a single piece of linen like the Shroud? How and when the Sudarium was added by Joseph and/or Nicodemus? How and when the sticky mixture (about 32 kg) of spices (myrrh and aloe) was added by Joseph and Nicodemus? STURP team knew what they had to search for but there was emphasised NOTHING in the fibres. Did the regarding scientists completely fail? Where the gospels irrefutable give evidence that the body was wrapped by Josef and/or Nicodemus in one piece of linen? There is no idefinite article "a" in the Greek texts?! And does noun as singular (also with article) in Greek always mean ONE PIECE only? Was Lazarus also wrapped according to the burial custom of Jews like Jesus? Short, logic and understandable answers are appreciated. Many thanks.

[@alanmcnaughton3628]

This is self explanatory from Luke and John you need to read all of Luke 24:1 to 12. Bible. Luke 24:1,12 [1]Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. [12]Then arose Peter, and ran unto the sepulchre; and stooping down, he beheld the linen clothes laid by themselves, and departed, wondering in himself at that which was come to pass. It doesn’t say winding bandages, it says cloths as in one large (shroud) as we know it, and the one the KJV calls the napkins this passage from John. Bible. John 20:1-8 [1]The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. [2]Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. [3]Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre. [4]So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre. [5]And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in. [6]Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, [7]And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself. [8]Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed. This "napkin" is the sudarium head covering cloth. The bible definitely covers the both cloths.

[@wipo3654]

​​​​​​@@alanmcnaughton3628 Thanks for reply but you only tried to answer my first question. I do not doubt that there was a head cloth and other clothes. But I claim: 1. There is no evidence in the gospels that the whole body including the head was wrapped in one large linen cloth like the Shroud. 2. If it really was the case - an additional head cloth wouldn't have made any sense because the head was already covered by the Shroud. 3. Furher, how it worked with the spices? Explain when, how and where they were added having one large linen cloth and why there is not any trace on the Shroud? You can answer this writing a detailed "forensic" burial report according to the gospel info. Describe all the actions and the used materials step by step (numbered) from purchasing cloths to laying into the Sepulchre and indicate in brackets the regarding verse numbers where you are referring to. Thanks .

[@sliglusamelius8578]

@@wipo3654 The text says what it says, it's not incompatible with the shroud and sudarium, it's totally compatible. Why there was a separate head cloth was not stated, but it contains blood, maybe they wanted to absorb the blood on his head. Who cares? It was done, deal with it. As for spices, how would the sturp team find those? They were placed on the body. What makes you think that they would be discoverable? They're quite biodegradable.

[@wipo3654]

​​@@sliglusamelius8578 You didn't get the points. Once again: (1) What was bought und used by Joseph - only ONE piece of linen? Where did the bandages and the face cloth come from? 'Sindon' as noun singular means in the context ALL THE FUNERAL ELEMENTS: bandages and the head cloth. (2) What happened with the spices? The body, except the head, was bound in linen WITH the spices promply after taking it from the cross. The spices were put between the BANDAGES (Othonion). (3) How it worked with the head cloth (Soudarion)? It was also added and it was left on the head until the resurrection. (4) How the women should have anointed Jesus if he was completely wrapped/bound in something like the Shroud? To get at least access to the head they would have had to uncover the NAKED body underneath. Impossible for women at that time. The intention of the women only works if the head was covered separately with a head cloth (Soudarion). And your answers show me that you didn't study all the regarding verses, didn't you? Do please before answering again: Mt 27,59 And Joseph took the body and wrapped [ENETYLIXEN] it in clean linen cloth [SINDONI, singular] Mk 15,46 And Joseph bought linen cloth [SINDONA, singular] and taking him down, wrapped [ENEILESEN] him in the linen cloth [SINDONI, singular] and laid him in a tomb that had been cut out of the rock. And he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. Mk 16,1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices [AROMATA] so that they might go to anoint [ALEIPSOSIN] Jesus. Lk 23,53 Then he took it down and wrapped [ENETYLIXEN] it in linen cloth [SINDONI, singular] and laid him in a tomb cut in stone, where no one had ever yet been laid. Lk 23,57 Then they went home and prepared spices [AROMATA] and perfumes [MYRA]. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment. Lk 24,1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices [AROMATA] they had prepared and went to the tomb. Lk 24,12 But Peter rose and ran to the tomb; stooping and looking in, he saw the linen cloths [OTHONIA, plural] by themselves; and he went home marveling at what had happened. Joh 11,44 The man [LAZARUS] who had died came out, his hands and feet bound [DEDEMENOS] with linen strips [KEIRIAIS, plural], and his face wrapped [PERIEDEDETO] with a cloth [SOUDARIO]. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go." Joh 19,39 Nicodemus also, who earlier had come to Jesus by night, came bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds in weight [about 32 kg]. Joh 19,40 So they took the body of Jesus and bound [EDESAN] it in linen cloths [OTHONIOIS, plural] with [META] the spices [AROMATON; about 32 kg], as is the burial custom of the Jews. Joh 20,5 And stooping to look in, he saw the linen cloths [OTHONIA, plural] lying there, but he did not go in. Joh 20,6 Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb. He saw the linen cloths [OTHONIA, plural] lying there, Joh 20,7 and the face cloth [SOUDARION], which had been on Jesus’ head, not lying with the linen cloths [OTHONION, plural] but folded up in a place by itself.

[@sliglusamelius8578]

@@wipo3654 lol you're ridiculous. Writing in those days was tedious. Nobody was recounting forensic details that you are asking about in a gospel intended to give the outline of the basic facts. The basic facts are right there and consistent with the shroud as it exists. The image is inexplicable. It's a radiation burn effect that cannot be reproduced. All the rest is just confirmatory data. You're pretending that Matthew cared about referring to all the cloths or both cloths every time he mentioned the main cloth. Who cares? Who cares how the women put on the spices? They put on the spices! Maybe they times the cloths to do it, maybe they reached under the cloths, who cares? You're getting bogged down in nonsense.

[@katiedid8192]

Wonder if Our Lady may have had it for awhile? It would only be fitting for her to have it.

[@johnmichaelson9173]

Wouldn't it be quicker if he did a list of the people who didn't have it. According to this guy I'm thinking the Shroud would be worn out down to a handkerchief.

[@Braingrandchild]

What is he talking about, the gospels don’t mention the shroud on Easter Sunday? “He saw and believed.” John and Peter saw it in the tomb. How is this not challenged?

[@davida.heffley4474]

Agree, John 20 speaks directly to the head napkin and burial clothes behind deposited in separate places.

[@scottbinns318]

​@@davida.heffley4474Interesting thing about that. The head wrap was, allegedly, found folded, which in Jewish tradition, tells servants of a feast not to clear the place because that person is returning.

[@jackmarkwardt]

At about 8:20 of the program, I state that, while the evangelists described Jesus’ body as having been wrapped in a shroud on Friday, they did not mention a shroud in their narratives of Sunday morning, something which I found to be very odd. This statement is true and accurate. You note that the scriptures recite that the beloved disciple looked into the tomb and saw and believed, which is correct, but the Gospel of John does not state that the beloved disciple saw the shroud and believed. That is a merely a conclusion which you draw from the scripture, and one with which I happen to agree. You also note that the scriptures recite that the beloved disciple and Peter saw the shroud in the tomb, but the Gospels of John and Luke state only that they observed strips of linen, and the Gospel of John recites that they also saw the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head-the sudarium. Here again, this is merely a conclusion which you draw from the scripture, one with which I also happen to agree.

[@sarahsmileseriously]

🙏🙏☺️

[@yoshiperspectives4880]

This argument is semantics. A "shroud" is a burial cloth. So when the scriptures says they saw Yeshua's "burial cloths", that is a layman's term. You can call it a shroud to use a technical term. It doesn't mean it is necessarily referring to the "shroud of Turin" and he isn't saying that the Bible said they saw "the shroud of Turin" just "the shroud" (burial cloth) and that is accurate.

[@animula6908]

Think of the literal magic it would take for this to exist if it’s not just as simple as “it’s Jesus’ shroud! Of course it’s full of miracles!” At some point it’s just the simplest way to explain it.

[@0U8123MTA3]

9:58 My understanding is that Pontius Pilate's wife asked to keep the cloth and did so. (I think that is recorded in Georgian documents.) Royalty kept the shroud over the centuries but not Jewish royalty. Of course whichever person holds the office of the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church is the current legal owner. However, I think every honest person knows whose signature is on that cloth which is a legal document in a jurisdiction far above earthly courtrooms.

[@mrJety89]

It is stated in Acts that Peter saw a great big shroud in a vision "kill and eat" In metaphorical terms, and in the context of that story, the vision means that Peter should use the shroud to convert "the unclean" i.e. the non-jews

[@marvinmayfield3922]

My issue remains rather simple. Yeshua as an Israelite would not have had long hair with the exception of HIS being under a Nazarite vow. I am unaware of HIS being under a Nazarite vow but am open to the possibility. Blessings.

[@lordssideministries4062]

Many have asserted this but let me pose a question to you. What is short hair and what is long hair? The man from the shroud did not have long UNCUT hair but long cut or shorn hair. It is understood that long uncut hair was considered feminine (outside the Nazarite vow) Short hair is subject… The Bible never mentions specific lengths. Men during Jesus day had approximately length hair for what culturally appropriate for Jewish men of that day. The hair length is a moot issue because the man on the shroud had long CUT hair so it was not considered shameful

[@lordssideministries4062]

Excerpt of an article Jewish men did not have the same luxuries of modern hair stylists available to provide regular haircuts. While Jewish men did trim their hair, it was not as often as in modern times, meaning a rougher appearance was likely. The apostle Paul's first letter to the Corinthians offers an insightful commentary into the Jewish attitude of men's hair. It notes, "Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him?" Paul's argument is that men were not to be known for hair that looked like that of women. While this does not indicate the length of Jesus' hair, it does reveal that He likely had hair shorter than Jewish females of the time. Though some exceptions are found in the Bible of men with long hair (such as Samson and John the Baptist), most Jewish men kept shorter hair to distinguish themselves from women as well as for practical purposes.

[@lordssideministries4062]

Taken from Article entitled “How long was Jesus' hair?”

[@nyemcheksdancecentreltd6099]

So interesting Ron Wyatt claimed that he found blood on the ark of the covenant saying the blood was still alive and that it was Jesus blood was there test done on the shroud in which there is blood samples I think that would be a real test of faith and revailing if blood would match

[@CarlMCole]

Yes, the blood on the Shroud has been tested, and it is Type AB human blood.

[@me-ds2il]

"The kingdom of God is *NOT* coming with things that can be observed" ~ Luke, 17:20. I guess that verse wasn't covered in Bible class?

[@michaelcamilleri8554]

Doesn't look like the face of a 33 year old, looks more 50-60

[@TheGraciousGuest]

Hard to tell. I think you have to factor in all of the trauma, plus perhaps lower life expectancy as well. Much harsher kind of life, I’d bet.

[@michaelcamilleri8554]

@@TheGraciousGuest We have plenty living a tough existence these days and many at 33 may look early 40s but not that old

[@JeanSmith-sz4uu]

@@michaelcamilleri8554Well-said!!

[@shauncavanaugh9100]

That's a huge mis-statement that the disciples did not see the burial linens. See John Chapter 20 which states Peter and "the other diciple" entered the tomb and saw the linen clothes. Better to focus on the science of the shroud and not the anecdotal history. 18:14

[@jackmarkwardt]

At about 8:20 of the program, I state that, while the evangelists described Jesus’ body as having been wrapped in a shroud on Friday, they did not mention a shroud in their narratives of Sunday morning, something which I found to be very odd. This is not a “huge misstatement”, but one which is entirely true and accurate. You falsely claim that I stated that the disciples did not see the burial linens, while I stated only that the evangelists did not report that the disciples saw Jesus shroud, and, in fact, they did not. The Gospels of John and Luke state that the beloved disciple and Peter observed strips of linen lying in the tomb, and the Gospel of John recites that they also saw the cloth that had been wrapped around Jesus’ head-the sudarium. Thus, it is clear that they saw burial linens, but it is not stated that thy saw the shroud, although I believe that they did so.

[@HDSME]

Blood is a life soul source every one crucified the blood was immediately dug up it is a a bad thing to mix blood of 2 animals or animal and human Or even mix coitten with linnin. They would not destroy it but hide it good yes! Remember they were in shock put your self in thir shoes

[@KandaceMccarthy-e7i]

It aint real kinda funny all the telics started showing up right at the time the carbon dating says...

[@TheGraciousGuest]

Not sure what you mean here. But the fact is that relics routinely serving as instruments of God’s grace goes back to Old Testament times (ex. A dead man was resurrected during his burial just by being accidentally brought into contact with the bones of Elisha the prophet in 2 Kings 12). He employs them frequently in the New Testament as well (ex. Acts 19:11-12 - Paul’s handkerchiefs and aprons were imbued with healing power), and there are countless examples since the time of Christ in the life of his Church of relics figuring prominently in God’s miraculous ongoing work.

[@sdb6757]

The image on the shroud looks suspiciously like Frank Zappa!

[@jimmoore9490]

Did Frank Zappa get hit with 1 trillion watts of electricity? They have been trying to replicate it and haven't been able even with today's technology. There is a 1 million dollar payout for anyone that can. There is another separate cloth with 120 points of congruence. Proving it came off of the same person. The most studied artifact in human history because scientists love to waste their time.

[@notsocrates9529]

le updooted kind sir 🙄

[@rickdavies4801]

There is nothing in the torah about the jesus at all so your statement makes no sense

[@JeSTeR-X1o]

I still reckon its made by da vinci amd its his image on the shroud

[@TheGraciousGuest]

DaVinci was born 100 years AFTER the Shroud was first publicly displayed Lirey…

[@JeSTeR-X1o]

Still strange tho that it's the stereotype borgais type image ,when if JC did exist he would have been Ethiopian anyway

[@JeSTeR-X1o]

@@TheGraciousGuest existence of the shroud before 1390 is murky at best with the scholars still trying to pin point it

[@mikewalsh1402]

Scientists who have examined the Shroud have concluded that the image of a beaten, scourged, and crucified man, was not made by man. It cannot be duplicated, even by today’s technology.

[@0U8123MTA3]

@@JeSTeR-X1o The anthropometrics of the man on the Shroud of Turin match up with a Jewish population that resided in Georgia since the exile around 600BC. The body measurements do not match with Ethiopian anthropometrics.

[@heritageresearchcenter8970]

Wrong. Read John 29:6-7. There was NO SHROUD. There were TWO LINEN pieces. Wrong! And Jesus did not have LONG HAIR. The disciples never collected RELICS.

[@wipo3654]

How do you know that there were TWO?

[@wipo3654]

According to the GOSPELS' CONTEXT the Shroud of Turin CANNOT BE the authentic burial cloth of Jesus Christ! This can be checked quite simply by trying to answer the following questions on the basis of the Bible: (1) What is the correct bible translation of the Greek word “sindón” - “a linen Shroud” or “linen cloth”? There is no indefinite article "a" in the original Greek texts of Matthew 27:59, Mark 15:46 and Luke 23:53. So, the CONTEXT is decisive and the correct unbiased translation/interpretation of SINDON must be "linen cloth" because Joseph of Arimathea bought ALL the needed burial linen cloth: bandages/strips (OTHONION) and the head cloth (SOUDARION). And John didn't mention SINDON in his gospel because he also didn't mention the all-inclusive purchase of Joseph of Arimathea. John focused more on the burial and resurrection details and there is nothing like the Shroud. (2) What happened to the “burial spices” - a 32 kg sticky mixture of myrrh and aloes? John 19 39Nicodemus, who had previously come to Jesus at night, also brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds [32 KG]. 40So they took the body of Jesus and wrapped it in linen cloths [OTHONION] with [META] the spices, according to the Jewish burial custom. Nicodemus was a leading Rabbi who knew WHAT was needed, HOW MUCH and that there was ENOUGH TIME to do the burial spicing. Jesus died around 3 pm and Sabbath started around 6 pm. Enough time to take the body from the cross, to wrap/bind the body in linen cloths (OTHONION) W I T H the spices between those bandages/strips according to the burial custom of Jews at that time and to transport Jesus to the nearby rock-tomb. (3) What the women intended to do after Sabbath - “anointing” or “burial spicing”? As shown above, the burial spicing was completely done by Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus. This was observed by the women. After Sabbath they intended to ANOINT Jesus' head as an act of honour, removing and readding the head cloth (SOUDARION). (4) Why to use an extra head cloth „soudarion“ when wrapping a body in something like the Shroud? The head cloth (SOUDARION) fully covered the head and the rest of the body was wrapped/bound in linen cloths (OTHONION]) with the spices between those bandages/strips. The head cloth was part of the burial custom of (rich) Jews at that time, as we can see in the gospel of John: John 11:44 44The man [Lazarus] who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth [SOUDARION]. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.” (5) What convinced the people in the 1st century that Jesus rose the third day? So, there is NO EVIDENCE for something like the Shroud in the gospels. It clearly contradicts the context and it didn‘t play any role from the beginning of the real church of Christ. No Shroud was and is needed to believe in the resurrection and overall in Jesus Christ: Joseph of Arimathea bought all the needed linen cloth (SINDON). That means bandages/strips (OTHONION) and the head cloth (SOUDARION). Nicodemus organised about 32 kg spices. That means a sticky mixture of myrrh and aloes. Jesus was taken from the cross and maybe he was also washed. Then the body - except the head - was wrapped/bound in situ with (META) the spices between the bandages/strips (OTHONION), according to the burial custom of (rich) Jews at that time. The head was covered with the head cloth (SOUDARION). Even then Jesus was carried to the nearby rock-tomb and was laid in there. The rock-tomb was closed with a stone and sealed. This was observed by the women from a certain distance. After Sabbath the women intended to anoint Jesus head removing and readding the head cloth (SOUDARION) but ... 1 Corinthians 15 1Now, brothers [siblings], I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that He was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that He appeared to Cephasa and then to the Twelve. 6After that, He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8And last of all He appeared to me also, as to one of untimely birth. All you have to know about Jesus Christ and for faith is in the Scripture. Read and trust the Bible! 2 Timothy 3 16All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17that the man [woman] of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. More details in a video presentation/description and comments on my channel. Click icon W to the left-top of this comment. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good. Be blessed - SHALOM!

[@heritageresearchcenter8970]

TOTAL MISINFORMATION.

[@omeadhra9]

Maybe it should be censored ?

[@waynesumner1829]

In true retrospect, the Shroud of Turin is just another crucifix-- a physical object , that is a Catholic relic, an idol. It is "authentic" but so is my 400th anniversary copy of the AKJV/T Bible but without Faith it profiteth nothing. Faith knoweth That Our Redeemer liveth. Nothing else really matters, Now, does it?

[@deborahw0]

Eeeeesh

[@brucea.overstreet9742]

To compare the shroud to a crucifix is a very short sited statement indicating a true misunderstanding of its significance. As God preserved the word he also has preserved the shroud against all odds including nearly being burned up in a fire. The blood on the Shroud was actually spilled for you and me. Think about that fact. And bow before Jesus immense gratitude.

[@terrygain1343]

wayne summer Your comment is nonsensical. The shroud is not a relic. If the shroud is real it is much more important than your 400 year old Bible, as much as you may treasure it. If the shroud is real it is conclusive proof that Jesus is God. Your Bible doesn’t rise to that level.

[@Coxy-b34]

It's proven to be a fake, why is it's authenticity even up for discussion?

[@TheGraciousGuest]

Who proved it to be a fake? And what do you make of the substantial body of growing evidence across multiple disciplines that supports authenticity?

[@yoshiperspectives4880]

She reads headlines.

[@yoshiperspectives4880]

​@@TheGraciousGuestYou just asked logical questions to a woman who obviously only read a headline and knows nothing of the actual study nor cares to.