Introduction to the Seriously Underrated Indus Valley / Harappan Civilization

In this program we'll take a solid look at the Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) of northwestern South Asia, also known as the Harappan Civilization. While it is clear that the people of this civilization were experts in urban planning, sanitation and drainage systems as well as some of the greatest traders of the ancient Bronze Age world, they are also among its most mysterious. This is in part due to their writing system still not being understood as well as the puzzle of their seemingly sudden disappearance from history. If you know very little about the IVC, then this is the video for you!
Contents:
00:00 Introduction
02:58 The Discovery of the Indus Valley Civilization
06:59 The Harappan World
16:04 The Mysterious Harappan Writing System
19:40 Meluhha and Mesopotamia
25:12 Great Cities
29:31 Who Ruled Harappan Society?
30:58 Harappan Religion?
32:25 The Height of Harappan Civilization
34:12 The Mysterious End
39:12 Thank You and Patrons
Related Videos:
Exploring the Harappan City of Lothal (History and Walking Tour)
• Exploring the Harappan...
Trade in the Early Bronze Age: Ancient Mesopotamia and the East (Harappan Civilization, Oxus & Elam)
• Trade in the Early Bro...
The Complete and Concise History of the Sumerians and Early Bronze Age Mesopotamia (7000-2000 BC)
• The Complete and Conci...
Sources and Suggested Reading:
The Archaeology of South Asia: From the Indus to Ashoka - Robin Coningham and Ruth Young
The Ancient Indus Valley: New Perspectives - Jane R. McIntosh
The Indus Civilization - Irfan Habib
The Indus Civilization: A Contemporary Perspective - Gregory Posselh
India: The Ancient Past - Burjor Avari
Civilizations of the Ancient Near East Vol. III - Ed. by Jack Sasson
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#indusvalley #ancienthistory #india

[@ronaldbender7226]

It always amazes me at the longevity of some of these early civilizations, but for some reason seeing the dates from the Early to Late Harrapan just hit me differently this time. 3300-1300 BCE. 2 thousand years, in the same place. It is almost inconceivable the number of generations that would have lived within that part of the world. Great video, as always!

[@dhruvsharma6826]

Such was the impact of those 2000 odd years that people who live in the region today in modern day Haryana, Gujarat and in Pakistan still construct their houses (traditional huts) in almost the same way as the Harappans. Their construction of bullock carts(especially the wheel-axle design) has also drawn interest from historians for marked similarities to the Harappans. The slates used to teach children were similar in design to those in use till date in rural areas. And women still dress in a way that is strikingly similar to the dancing lady bronze figurine unearthed from the sites - with lots of bangles going up their arms. The prevelance and importance of the Bull in Indian culture today resonates with the seals found at the sites.

[@ansfridaeyowulfsdottir8095]

*_"3300-1300 BCE. 2 thousand years, in the same place."_* Yes. And to think, the Egyptians lasted only 3,300 years. {:o:O:}

[@Vlad---]

I d0nt understand h0w can even such utubers can get the dates wr0ng indus vaIIey civiIizati0n is the 0Idest in the w0rId 0Idest site is fr0m ar0und 7500 BC brihana in state 0f Haryana making indus vaIIey 0Ider than egypt and mes0p0tamia

[@Talkshowhorse_Echna]

@@Vlad--- When posting such things, please back it up with good sientific evidence. If you can't stop spreading missinformation.

[@ishmaelforester9825]

It's also nice to say, it declined and disappeared. Nah, it was invaded, pillaged and plundered and destroyed. I'm not sure by who

[@walidb123]

For years I’ve come back to the internet hoping the language of the Harappan’s will be translated so we could learn more about their lives and beliefs. Hope I live to see it!

[@NirmalKumar-ru2ke]

JOURNEY OF CIVILIZATION INDUS TO VAGAI BOOK IS MAIN PROOF ... Then i am also lot evidence available people speak to Mainly Tamil language only.. Why?..I have proof. 1.) TAMIL language total Number of inscription 67000 nos.. Then inscription age 700.B.C. 2.)SANSKRIT total inscription is 4500 only..Sanskrit INSCRIPTION is 100.B.C 3.)Sangam literature lot proof avaialable..Sangam Literature land wise People how survive lot poem available. Kurinji land - mountain land, Mullai land- Tree land, Marutham land -aggreculture land, Neythal land - sea land, Paalai land - Sesertland or Sand land or waste land,So land wise poem avaialable..Sangam Litrature lot poem avaialable in desert land poems..Sangam Literature writing 2500 year ago.. This is the mainly Proof .. India lot INSCRIPTION avaialable 1.) Tamizhi inscription 2.)Poly language inscription 3.)Ashoca inscription 4.)Devanagari inscription.. 5.)SANSKRIT inscription Then Tamil language world wide Lot of evidence is available. But Sanskrit evidence little bit only available.. Tamil Literature Sangam Literature Three Sangams wrote poems and developed the Tamil language. Names of those three Sangams. 1.)First Association 2.)Second Association 3.) Third Association. Sangha literature is reorganized and written between 600 BC and 1300 AD. 1.) Poems of the First Sangam relate to events before 6000 BC. 2.) Poems of the Second Sangam relate to events which took place before 2500 BC. Says it like a song. 3.) The hymns of the Third Sangam relate events from 800 BC to 1200 AD. The following are not mentioned in any literature in India. The following has been said in only one literature and that is Sangam literature only. Apartment buildings, Sewerage, Bricks, Forts, Education, Straight roads, Seals, What creatures were around the Indus Valley?, How many types of trees were around the Indus Valley?, What kind of clothes did the people of the Indus Valley wear?, What were their foods?, People of the Indus Valley Literature is one that can tell about daily life and many more things. It is Sangam literature. Indus Valley has more than 2100 Sangam literary town names. These names date back to 5000 BC..the evidence is journey of civilization indus to vaigai book.latitude and longitude are given in this book..the names of this town are only in two areas. One is in Indus Valley in Pakistan and the other is in Tamil Nadu in India..Indus Valley has more Sanga Literary town names than Tamil Nadu.. As Tamil language is very ancient it has changed in every period. Tamil language has changed more than 15 times so its ancient form is not readable now. The alphabet of the Tamil language can be read twelve times, but its primitive form cannot be read. But the Aryans destroyed the source of it...Sanskrit was created by the Tamils themselves. The meaning of Sanskirudam is not even in Rigveda. That meaning is 'Samaikka patta kirudam '. If so, it is a 'Samaikka patta language'. English meaning is cooked language..Created with Tamil grammar and words from literature of many languages.. Everyone explores Indus Valley north and east of India there is no evidence there. But they don't want to explore south of India and places around Indian ocean..why India doesn't allow it..

[@airmark02]

Maybe one of the good things about A I is that it will someday happen

[@TracyD2]

@@airmark02I was just thinking the same.

[@dv9239]

​@@airmark02 doubt it AI is not magic

[@mattstakeontheancients7594]

Such an amazing civilization that most people don’t know about. Their level of engineering for the time period(they had plumbing) is amazing. Hopefully their written language will be translated and more information will be gleaned.

[@loke6664]

I think we need some new finds to actually translate it though. All known writings are between a word and a sentence or maybe at most 2 short sentences long. We don't know the language they were speaking either which sadly makes it almost impossible to translate. Finding something like a Rosetta stone with Harappan and Cuneiform would solve this easily but at minimum we at least need to find something that is far longer to get a chance reading it. I mean, we don't know what is written on the seals we have, it could be names of people or families, place names or it might be the name of goods for trade or even names of Gods or something else entirely, we don't have even a clue. The only written language I know of that would be harder to crack would be the Danube script if it was a written script at all. The Harappan script has somewhere between 400 and 600 different signs/letters/hieroglyphs, we aren't sure since some look pretty similar and not all seems to have been in use at the same time. That makes it far harder to figure out then other languages being studied in hope of understanding them like the Minoan Linear A (which had some promising breakthroughs lately) and Rongorongo from Rapa Nui which we at least know a bit of the spoken language. We have no clue if it is a Indo European language (something we recently due to DNA studies figured out Linear A seems to be) or something long gone with no modern family left. So sadly, unless we make some new finds, I can't see us solving that one. We do know it is a written language due to the number of signs and how often some appears which still is a step up from the Danube script but that is about it. Of course if we figured out what the seals actually were for that might help a bit. We don't even know if the pictures and script have a similar meaning, it might be that those were put on sacks of trade goods with the writing explaining the content and the pictures symbolizing a person, family or tradehouse owning it for instance but there are many other possible uses for them and they probably don't mean that since so few say the same.

[@mattstakeontheancients7594]

@@loke6664 be nice if a civilization after them would have been interested in history and saved a bunch of artifacts or made copies like the Assyrians did for Sumerian and Babylonian artifacts. Big reason I enjoy archeology constantly learning about our past and making discoveries that change how we perceive ancient cultures. Here’s to hoping an Indus Valley version of the Rosetta Stone exist buried just waiting to be excavated.

[@loke6664]

@@mattstakeontheancients7594 Agreed but the problem is that the script got lost during the last part of their history and no other writing existed in the area for centuries so it is unlikely anyone did that in their area. Our best possibility is that someone like that translator wrote a translation of something, either together with the original writing or that we find some copies of translations and some original messages somewhere in Summeria or Elan. Another possibility is that they wrote their longer messages on clay, stone or parchment and that we will find a library of them somewhere in the Indus valley, we haven't found any yet but that doesn't mean such a place doesn't exist. That would make it harder then with a Rosetta stone of course but it is the lack of larger pieces of writing that makes translating them close to impossible. It is a longshot but stranger things have happened and we can always hope. But I have far higher hopes for Linear A, that one I think will be solved in the next 20 years.

[@HistorywithCy]

@@loke6664 I'm really hoping that one day there is an Akkadian-Harappan language dictionary/lexicon discovered that can shed some light on it one day. That would in my opinion be one of the greatest finds so far of the 21st century. Thanks for watching, really appreciate it!

[@loke6664]

@@HistorywithCy Elamite is another good possibility, they clearly had trade relations with the Harappans as well and it is not impossible something with both scripts could be found. But anything with far more Harappan writing would already be very helpful. With the little we have right now, any kind of translation is impossible even if you have some future AI working on it. Rongorongo is another mystery but since the few texts we have there are pretty long, I think that one have a possibility of being solved. Since we have knowledge of the language and relatively long texts that one is looking far better. Let's hope they find a lot more about this ancient and still pretty mysterious civilization. :)

[@sizanogreen9900]

Glad to have you covering the Harappan. One of those places that makes us truly realize how much we still have to learn.

[@BiggestCorvid]

If they managed to be as peaceful as they seemed for as long as they seemed then I REALLY need to hear their worldview.

[@HistorywithCy]

My pleasure, thanks so much for watching! I'll put out some more content related to IVC in the near future, probably this summer... stay tuned!

[@BrokenSoldier1515]

@jerrylouiswiththethickness6403. Oh yes peaceful vegetarian hindus🤪🤪🤪 so peaceful that by destroying temples themselves will shift the blame onto muslims, so much peace spreading modi bhakats and fans of godi media🤣🤣

[@BrokenSoldier1515]

@jerrylouiswiththethickness6403 then you have no idea about cow vigilantism. Just give it a youtube search and you will see the face of your peaceful vegetarians. And most of the meat dishes of indian sub-continent are associated with muslims which according to you are creating problems in india. Also you should get dishes from the countries you mentioned😋😋

[@baronesselsavonfreytag-lor1134]

@jerrylouiswiththethickness6403 Actually, it's Punjabi cuisine that the world loves. People are afraid to eat at Hindu owned restaurants because they don't want cow piss in their dinner. I'm not being snarky, people have told me this.

[@EdrickBluebeard]

Every time I hear about railworkers or other industries plundering a site, my heart drops.

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

Mine, too, it’s a terrible shame.

[@richardthamilarasu3740]

Yes it also sadly happened to the Amaravati Stupa in Andhra Pradesh

[@stephaniewilliams9789]

The ignorant and backward just can’t help themselves. They’re a blight wherever they go

[@pokemonitishere202]

@@richardthamilarasu3740 What happened bro?

[@j.lingle4713]

I’d love to see more on the ancient Indus Valley civilization, as well as the Cucuteni-Tryppilian civilization.

[@jasoncuculo7035]

Those two exactly me too.

[@nikobellic570]

Doesn't that straddle Ukrainian - Russian border? Just like Indus valley crosses two geopolitical rivals. No archaeology possible there buddy

[@jasoncuculo7035]

@@nikobellic570 Some of that civilization is also in Romania though.

[@IStevenSeagal]

Culture not civilization.

[@jasoncuculo7035]

@@IStevenSeagal I contend that definition, why because they have no monumental centralized temple or government buildings so they do not count. What if they are just more egalitarian, but not less advanced? This definition of a civilization is imperfect.

[@irisessex90]

I’ve heard of the Indus Valley but never heard anything about their ancient culture. Wonderfully eye opening. Thanks for the history lesson.

[@dannyvanhecke]

The Sarasvati River was very important for them, it gets mentioned in Rigveda, so obviously that's the reason they had to leave.

[@velu1671]

Central Asian ,afghanistan river😂😂😂😂,dirtback nomadic bandits of aryan clan.

[@Ajay_Kumar-uq8rd]

There was no Vedic society. This is misinformation and an attempt to make those non vedic native people as vedic society.

[@TingTong2568]

@@velu1671 here comes a tamilitard😂

[@wickyswag7799]

​@@velu1671 dey pandi poyi oo appane kandupidi

[@phoenixj1299]

Exactly

[@bk5333]

Thanks for making a non biased review of the Indus Valley civilization/s. It is hard now a days to dig through the propaganda and get to the the real knowledge. Appreciate your hard work into making these videos.

[@afchehiro]

Thank you for your effort and time!!!! And as always, this channel is on another level!!!

[@thomass9234]

Thank you for doing this. Excellent quality video on a fascinating subject. Cheers.

[@js70371]

Love this channel. Been waiting for a new episode, and I couldn’t think of a better subject. The Indus Valley civilization is absolutely breathtaking and fascinating in its complexity. Thank you for all your hard work Cy, much appreciated. From, A big fan of the channel in Canada 🙏🇨🇦🍻

[@bettylaselli2048]

I agree!

[@HistorywithCy]

My pleasure, thanks so much for watching and really glad you enjoyed this episode. I'll do more vids with the IVC soon, probably one trade next month. Love Canada too, such a beautiful country! I was in Banff and Jasper a couple of years ago and can't wait to go back! Also hope to visit Montreal and Quebec City next year as I've heard great things about both!

[@NirmalKumar-ru2ke]

JOURNEY OF CIVILIZATION INDUS TO VAGAI BOOK IS MAIN PROOF ... Then i am also lot evidence available people speak to Mainly Tamil language only.. Why?..I have proof. 1.) TAMIL language total Number of inscription 67000 nos.. Then inscription age 700.B.C. 2.)SANSKRIT total inscription is 4500 only..Sanskrit INSCRIPTION is 100.B.C 3.)Sangam literature lot proof avaialable..Sangam Literature land wise People how survive lot poem available. Kurinji land - mountain land, Mullai land- Tree land, Marutham land -aggreculture land, Neythal land - sea land, Paalai land - Sesertland or Sand land or waste land,So land wise poem avaialable..Sangam Litrature lot poem avaialable in desert land poems..Sangam Literature writing 2500 year ago.. This is the mainly Proof .. India lot INSCRIPTION avaialable 1.) Tamizhi inscription 2.)Poly language inscription 3.)Ashoca inscription 4.)Devanagari inscription.. 5.)SANSKRIT inscription Then Tamil language world wide Lot of evidence is available. But Sanskrit evidence little bit only available.. Tamil Literature Sangam Literature Three Sangams wrote poems and developed the Tamil language. Names of those three Sangams. 1.)First Association 2.)Second Association 3.) Third Association. Sangha literature is reorganized and written between 600 BC and 1300 AD. 1.) Poems of the First Sangam relate to events before 6000 BC. 2.) Poems of the Second Sangam relate to events which took place before 2500 BC. Says it like a song. 3.) The hymns of the Third Sangam relate events from 800 BC to 1200 AD. The following are not mentioned in any literature in India. The following has been said in only one literature and that is Sangam literature only. Apartment buildings, Sewerage, Bricks, Forts, Education, Straight roads, Seals, What creatures were around the Indus Valley?, How many types of trees were around the Indus Valley?, What kind of clothes did the people of the Indus Valley wear?, What were their foods?, People of the Indus Valley Literature is one that can tell about daily life and many more things. It is Sangam literature. Indus Valley has more than 2100 Sangam literary town names. These names date back to 5000 BC..the evidence is journey of civilization indus to vaigai book.latitude and longitude are given in this book..the names of this town are only in two areas. One is in Indus Valley in Pakistan and the other is in Tamil Nadu in India..Indus Valley has more Sanga Literary town names than Tamil Nadu.. As Tamil language is very ancient it has changed in every period. Tamil language has changed more than 15 times so its ancient form is not readable now. The alphabet of the Tamil language can be read twelve times, but its primitive form cannot be read. But the Aryans destroyed the source of it...Sanskrit was created by the Tamils themselves. The meaning of Sanskirudam is not even in Rigveda. That meaning is 'Samaikka patta kirudam '. If so, it is a 'Samaikka patta language'. English meaning is cooked language..Created with Tamil grammar and words from literature of many languages.. Everyone explores Indus Valley north and east of India there is no evidence there. But they don't want to explore south of India and places around Indian ocean..why India doesn't allow it..

[@sarat6488]

one of my favorite ancient civs ever since helping my daughter with a school project about them. Thank you for this great video!

[@norcal86ert45]

Awesome work! Really glad that you did an episode on this! Thank you.

[@HistorywithCy]

My pleasure, thanks for watching!

[@madderhat5852]

This was brilliant. Oh, for a time machine. Or even a time-scope, just to watch. Thank you Cy.

[@michaelroper4238]

Excellent presentation Cy..great photography and analysis..

[@pradyutdas7358]

The time difference between the Early Harappan (3300 BCE) to Late Harappan (1300 BCE) is even larger than the time difference between the Chola Empire at its peak (1000 CE) and the Republic of India (2023 CE). That's mind-bogglingly awesome. Maybe Indus Valley civilization itself is a series of different political system, which may be in their most unified form in the Mature Phase (2500-1900 BCE).

[@javeddkhanmz5723]

chola umpire ki chaddi us smay kahi nahi thi

[@islandsunset]

​@@javeddkhanmz5723padhna sekh lo ki akhir wo bolna kya chahta hai.

[@javeddkhanmz5723]

@@islandsunset this civilization far more older than any hindu religion

[@SWAROOPSKNAIR]

@@javeddkhanmz5723Abe Nafrati mulle, tera kya kaam yaha. Islam se pehle sab Jahiliyat thi as per your Assmani kitab. Kis baat ka credit lene aaya tu? Jaahil Katwe jaake moulvi ko gaand de

[@Namburiadityasairam2605]

​@@javeddkhanmz5723by many counts the ancient indus religion was a precursor to modern hinduism, like for example the theme of "pashupati". It is your fake pride and implications that are threatened by the IVC, not ours.

[@geraldmeehan8942]

Thank you for yet another informative episode. Keep up the good work!

[@HistorywithCy]

My pleasure, thanks for watching and stay tuned for more!

[@JustGrowingUp84]

One of the most interesting ancient civilizations. I'm so happy that we 'do' know enough for a 40 min. video, I loved it!

[@tom4ivo]

Forests are very important for retaining rainfall in the soil. If the trees are removed, not only does rain run off into the rivers and not soak into the soil, but eventually the aquifers dry up and the springs stop running. In the New England colonies, the colonists logged all the forests in the 17th century. The immediate result was erosion of the soil and sedimentation of rivers and streams. A bigger problem was that 20-30 years later, the springs dried up, and lack of water became a problem in the drier seasons.

[@Breakfast_of_Champions]

And all the quality bricks the Harappans made, they must have taken a lot of wood to fire.

[@kingozzy7075]

Is that also why those in 17th c new england were such bad farmers? I've read A New England Town and I remember something about them never learning how to properly grow crops, could be wrong though

[@kapilsethia9284]

@@Breakfast_of_Champions Instead of digging their own graves they were burning their own funeral pyre.

[@gokul6582]

Same thing happened to the maya, they deforested the whole Yucatan peninsula to build their towers and the entire civilization vanished due to famine.

[@userequaltoNull]

@@kingozzy7075 They weren't bad farmers by any means, however many of the Puritains came from a somewhat less agrarian background than was common in England at the time. Combine that with the universal difficulty of cultivating new ground, and New England in particular having very rocky soil and thick forests, and many of the first years (up to maybe 1640 or so) would have been challenging to say the least.

[@Chuck-Morgan]

Fascinating! Another educational presentation on the highest level. Thanks again Cy 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@HistorywithCy]

You're welcome, thanks so much for watching!

[@Moosyfate]

Thank you for this! Great overview, I hope you are able to do more on this civ.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks and for sure, planning on some IVC related content later on this summer. Thanks for watching, really appreciate it!

[@dougbell9543]

A very informative presentation that’s greatly appreciated. ✔️

[@jacquesmesrine3244]

India is so ancient with a huge landmass and population that it can be inferred that they've been around for tens if thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years! It's really incredible how historians and archeologists continue to uncover more and more about India's ancient past

[@JenneeB927]

Hey, Cy! I'm so excited for the new video. I look forward to learning more about the fascinating cultures of the Indus Valley.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks and hope this video is useful for you! I'll put out some more content on the IVC later on this summer. Thanks for watching, really appreciate it!

[@alessandrodelogu7931]

The Indus Valley civilization is really a fascinating mystery. You make it look like a Bronze Age Shangri-La: a wealthy, peaceful and egalitarian society. Your presentation is intriguing, but we should not idealise ancient societies, especially those we have so little information about. The first archeologists who studied the Mayans, for example, considered them a civilization of peaceful astronomers. That remained the general consensus until the Maya script was deciphered. The civilizations of India and Southeast Asia often used palm leaves as writing material, which is very fragile and spoils quickly. If the people of Harappa used that too then all their books are lost, if they had any. In this case the secret of their script is also lost.

[@phoenixj1299]

Their culture is not lost. It exists till today. Harappan people not only focused on writings but also through oral traditions. Which is why it still survives to this day.

[@sm8315]

My family are saraswats which means we have come from the saraswati, descendants of this great civilisation

[@stollinroned5090]

​@@sm8315no

[@crystalhealing847]

​​@@phoenixj1299only problem with oral tradition is that it can change over time while written tradition stays on

[@phoenixj1299]

@@crystalhealing847 Facts don't change. Meaning if other evidence corroborate with the content of the oral tradition, then we can easily conclude the reality of the content. Well I understand that oral traditions can change the contents and it might be true with this case well but the difference is...the change for Vedas are lesser because of the techniques of memorization they employed back in the days. The change of content in Vedas are literally 100 times lesser than other oral traditions of the world. Written traditions can change as well.

[@pinchevulpes]

for the first time I am early. Thank you for another quality upload Cy! listening to this as I doze off to sleep! then again tomorrow for anything I missed !

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks my friend, hope you enjoyed it! More IVC on the way in the future, stay tuned and have a great weekend!

[@ahmedjabbar2820]

This has been long overdue!! Great summary as usual.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks my friend! I remember you being one of my early subscribers and thrilled you’re still watching these, really appreciate it!

[@ahmedjabbar2820]

@@HistorywithCy Hey Cy, I hope you're doing well. I was genuinely surprised when you remembered me last time, about a year ago, and I'm even more surprised now. I'm truly proud of your channel!! When I first subscribed to you, I was in Iraq. Last time we talked, I was in Turkey. Now I'm in the Netherlands!! Btw, I'm still waiting for more videos on the middle Assyrian period. 🤞🤞

[@krishnabanerjee169]

i am really impressed that people are still interested in wanting to understand what this great civilization was about. thanks a million.

[@Pindi44]

Fascinating and very well presented, thank you.

[@EdrickBluebeard]

Thank you for this channel, by the way.

[@bibia666]

Great work, I will watch this twice (at least) thanks for the uploads 🙏 videos very well and nicely done (as usual) 👍. Greetings bibia 👋

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, really appreciate the feedback and thanks for watching! More on the way, stay tuned!

[@TheKakamuka]

Indian here. Thoroughly enjoyed this presentation! Stoneware from recent excavations in Tamil Nadu particularly Keezhadi and adichanallur areas show a script that is identical to that of IVC. Carbon dating show that this civilization was a little after IVC. However, these excavations are relatively new. This ancient civilization too thrived along a long river Tambarabarani with numerous active sea ports on the coast. They too traded carmelian beads and pottery…..don’t think any seals have been recovered (yet?)

[@jackmartin7797]

I am curious whether this era of Indian civilization proceeded from the sunken cities of Dwarka, which I understand the oldest has been dated to 9000 BC?

[@ArrowBast]

@@jackmartin7797 Traders, failed princes and castaways from Indus Valley cultures found refuge in southern India and merged with local Tamil people to create the first Tamil Kingdoms. They sailed to South India .

[@warlockcraft21]

Fantastic vid. It's a culture that holds a certain mystique for me and I love hearing about it. Thank you!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it and more on the way, stay tuned and thanks for watching!

[@historiaconcountryballs4869]

el video que mas havia esperado de tu canal y as aportado informacion que nadia havia aportado

[@ozahmed4523]

Thanks for making an awesome documentary.

[@massimosquecco8956]

Such a super interesting lecture about this fascinating and mysterious civilization. Beautiful pictures where I could find artifacts that I'd never seen before. You provided some new information as well (at least they were new for me), but what I like the most about your videos, in general, is the rhythm of your speeches that makes you a really great speaker: Congratulations, and thank you so much for your outstanding work!

[@phoenixj1299]

It is mysterious and yet it's not mysterious.

[@richardthamilarasu3740]

I hope you will investigate also on Keeladi lately discovered in Tamilnadu and it's connection to the Indus valley. Thanks

[@Trials_By_Errors]

No connection At All. Move beyond Propaganda.

[@anirudh2704]

There is no connection. By the late Indus valley period the population had already decayed and forgotten the development of good infrastructure.

[@belowtheworld7303]

@@anirudh2704 The Keezhadi Site has to be connected to Tamizh Nadu due to the IVC being inhabited by ancient Dravidians, and Tamizh being the oldest Dravidian language.

[@anirudh2704]

@belowtheworld7303 and why do u think so ? During IVC, tribes from TN used to provide raw materials for IVC. The civilization in TN had a trade understanding. The IVC identity is not known that's the fact whether u accept it or don't not my problem.

[@TransgirlsEnjoyer]

Tamil is not oldest, that is just online fact@@belowtheworld7303

[@Theghoulette]

IVC is so fascinating, and this is one of the most in-depth presentations I've seen in a while. Cheers xx

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it!

[@buttercxpdraws8101]

So excited! New video from Cy 😊 Life is good ✌️💕🌻

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank you! More on the way, stay tuned!

[@kendallbyrd9875]

Great video! I love learning about cultures who go back to the Bronze Age.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching!

[@bobSeigar]

Love your videos Cy, been a fantastic resource for my studies. Ive been intentionally avoiding this culture until more could be unveiled, however, it seems the fruit of my research originates from here. Namely, astrological records.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks so much, glad these have been helpful! More on the way, stay tuned and thanks for watching!

[@ayaan9646]

I appreciate content like this

[@pripegalapobedonosni3324]

While Egypt and Mesopotamia were busy building grand monuments and temples. The Harappan were busy building toilets with running drainage. I know what I would call progress

[@Beyonder1987]

Mesopotamian or Urukas it was known had toilets and drainage systems too

[@jessklay8594]

I prefer educational videos like this over anything on television. This is far more entertaining to me than any Netflix series. My brain feels stimulated while watching Cy’s videos, as opposed to numbed when I’m convinced to watch television.

[@alden547]

I have not watched TV on any sort of regular basis since 2014. Don't miss it a bit. The longer I go, the more I see it's manipulation

[@SolomonMars]

awesome! I've been eaiting for you to cover this topic/area.

[@HistorywithCy]

My pleasure, hope you find this useful...thanks for watching!

[@AronAroniteOnlineTV]

One of the best documentary on Harrapan Indus valley civilisation.❤

[@loke6664]

It is a very interesting topic, I wouldn't mind a second episode going into details about one of the Harappan cities as well. :)

[@HistorywithCy]

Actually I visited the ruins of the city of Lothal a in March and will probably make a short video on that sort of like the Persepolis walking tour or recent Naqsh-e Rustam video that preceded this one. One day I hope to visit Harappa and Mohenjo-daro and if I do, then for sure I'll record some content to share with you all. Thanks so much for watching, really appreciate it!

[@rankingresearchdata]

​@@HistorywithCycan you cover sinhauli excavation of uttar pradesh which is roughly 1900 BCE

[@NirmalKumar-ru2ke]

JOURNEY OF CIVILIZATION INDUS TO VAGAI BOOK IS MAIN PROOF .. Then i am also lot evidence available people speak to Mainly Tamil language only.. Why?..I have proof. 1.) TAMIL language total Number of inscription 67000 nos.. Then inscription age 700.B.C. 2.)SANSKRIT total inscription is 4500 only..Sanskrit INSCRIPTION is 100.B.C 3.)Sangam literature lot proof avaialable..Sangam Literature land wise People how survive lot poem available. Kurinji land - mountain land, Mullai land- Tree land, Marutham land -aggreculture land, Neythal land - sea land, Paalai land - Sesertland or Sand land or waste land,So land wise poem avaialable..Sangam Litrature lot poem avaialable in desert land poems..Sangam Literature writing 2500 year ago.. This is the mainly Proof .. India lot INSCRIPTION avaialable 1.) Tamizhi inscription 2.)Poly language inscription 3.)Ashoca inscription 4.)Devanagari inscription.. 5.)SANSKRIT inscription Then Tamil language world wide Lot of evidence is available. But Sanskrit evidence little bit only available.. Tamil Literature Sangam Literature Three Sangams wrote poems and developed the Tamil language. Names of those three Sangams. 1.)First Association 2.)Second Association 3.) Third Association. Sangha literature is reorganized and written between 600 BC and 1300 AD. 1.) Poems of the First Sangam relate to events before 6000 BC. 2.) Poems of the Second Sangam relate to events which took place before 2500 BC. Says it like a song. 3.) The hymns of the Third Sangam relate events from 800 BC to 1200 AD. The following are not mentioned in any literature in India. The following has been said in only one literature and that is Sangam literature only. Apartment buildings, Sewerage, Bricks, Forts, Education, Straight roads, Seals, What creatures were around the Indus Valley?, How many types of trees were around the Indus Valley?, What kind of clothes did the people of the Indus Valley wear?, What were their foods?, People of the Indus Valley Literature is one that can tell about daily life and many more things. It is Sangam literature. Indus Valley has more than 2100 Sangam literary town names. These names date back to 5000 BC..the evidence is journey of civilization indus to vaigai book.latitude and longitude are given in this book..the names of this town are only in two areas. One is in Indus Valley in Pakistan and the other is in Tamil Nadu in India..Indus Valley has more Sanga Literary town names than Tamil Nadu.. As Tamil language is very ancient it has changed in every period. Tamil language has changed more than 15 times so its ancient form is not readable now. The alphabet of the Tamil language can be read twelve times, but its primitive form cannot be read. But the Aryans destroyed the source of it...Sanskrit was created by the Tamils themselves. The meaning of Sanskirudam is not even in Rigveda. That meaning is 'Samaikka patta kirudam '. If so, it is a 'Samaikka patta language'. English meaning is cooked language..Created with Tamil grammar and words from literature of many languages.. Everyone explores Indus Valley north and east of India there is no evidence there. But they don't want to explore south of India and places around Indian ocean..why India doesn't allow it..

[@cabwaylingo_]

I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU TO MAKE A VIDEO ON THE HARAPPANS FOREVER!!! thank you for this, this is easily one of the most interesting, captivating and peculiar civilizations of all time, one of my all time personal favorites. this is a fantastic introduction, you covered most of the important stuff really well and while i would've loved an even deeper dive i understand that an in-depth video would need to be like 3.5 hours long lol

[@HistorywithCy]

My pleasure, really glad you're into this stuff and hope to put out some more IVC related content this summer. Thanks so much for watching!

[@adambabbs2055]

I love these programs, thank you. I was amazed to learn the Harappan's had no military culture or fortifications. I also am fascinated that such widespread trade and commerce was possible without the use of money. Thanks again.

[@bettylaselli2048]

Thanks for sharing! I love this channel

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, appreciate the kind words and thanks for watching!

[@foresthill8462]

Very good video on one of my favourite topics ❤ thank you Cy. One error: at 16:46 you said the writing was left to right, which is incorrect; it was right to left. The seals are left to right because they need to be mirrored so the actual imprint would be right to left.

[@Kaditsu-Chronicles]

Thank you for this interesting information on the fascinating Harrapan culture and undeciphered language. How interesting ❤

[@HistorywithCy]

My pleasure, thanks for watching!

[@spacebunny4335]

Was waiting for this one.

[@HistorywithCy]

Hope you enjoyed it and thanks for watching!

[@sifatenoorsahiba1484]

This video came up at the right time. I am an architecture student and we have indus valley civilization on our this semester's Architecture of Ancient Civilizations course. I have a week to prepare for the finals and this is just what I needed. I really enjoy your videos so keep up the good work! Love from Bangladesh

[@jtmcgee]

We had an introduction to the Indus valley Civilization in my Humanities class. It was pretty basic but enough to make me hungry for more. Thanks for the informative and entertaining video on an often neglected cradle of civilization and the early society that developed there.

[@fabiengerard8142]

More or less the same experience happened to me in the mid-Seventies, when I started my education in archeology at the Brussels University, and it immediately became my favorite ancient civilization (probably also because I’d never heard about it before). Extremely fascinating.

[@t.j.payeur5331]

This was great, thanks!

[@Azraeel11]

Your pronunciation of "Punjab" is perfect. My mind is blown as many history channel narrators fail to pronounce it perfectly. 👍

[@yomommaahotoo264]

I'd like to hear him pronounce 'gift cards'.

[@modgirl2001]

I learned about the Indus Valley Civilization when I was in high school. It wasn't given as much attention as the Sumerian and Akkadian Civilizations as it should have. I learned about ancient civilizations in college Archaeology classes and my own reading and research. Thanks for posting this video, very interesting and informative .

[@modgirl2001]

I went to high high school and college in the US. My family always encouraged education and respect for science, biology and engineering. Archaeology was a huge interest of mine. It was at Bryn Mawr College that I learned about the Mesopotamian civilization, as well as other ancient Civilizations.

[@aviadilo]

The main reason is that much less is known about the IVC than any other major ancient civilization - there are no inscriptions, tablets, scrolls. We don't know the name of a single IVC ruler. In comparison, we have lots of information about Mesopotamia and Ancient Egypt.

[@speedythings7396]

European propaganda in full swing.

[@NirmalKumar-ru2ke]

JOURNEY OF CIVILIZATION INDUS TO VAGAI BOOK IS MAIN PROOF ... Then i am also lot evidence available people speak to Mainly Tamil language only.. Why?..I have proof. 1.) TAMIL language total Number of inscription 67000 nos.. Then inscription age 700.B.C. 2.)SANSKRIT total inscription is 4500 only..Sanskrit INSCRIPTION is 100.B.C 3.)Sangam literature lot proof avaialable..Sangam Literature land wise People how survive lot poem available. Kurinji land - mountain land, Mullai land- Tree land, Marutham land -aggreculture land, Neythal land - sea land, Paalai land - Sesertland or Sand land or waste land,So land wise poem avaialable..Sangam Litrature lot poem avaialable in desert land poems..Sangam Literature writing 2500 year ago.. This is the mainly Proof .. India lot INSCRIPTION avaialable 1.) Tamizhi inscription 2.)Poly language inscription 3.)Ashoca inscription 4.)Devanagari inscription.. 5.)SANSKRIT inscription Then Tamil language world wide Lot of evidence is available. But Sanskrit evidence little bit only available.. Tamil Literature Sangam Literature Three Sangams wrote poems and developed the Tamil language. Names of those three Sangams. 1.)First Association 2.)Second Association 3.) Third Association. Sangha literature is reorganized and written between 600 BC and 1300 AD. 1.) Poems of the First Sangam relate to events before 6000 BC. 2.) Poems of the Second Sangam relate to events which took place before 2500 BC. Says it like a song. 3.) The hymns of the Third Sangam relate events from 800 BC to 1200 AD. The following are not mentioned in any literature in India. The following has been said in only one literature and that is Sangam literature only. Apartment buildings, Sewerage, Bricks, Forts, Education, Straight roads, Seals, What creatures were around the Indus Valley?, How many types of trees were around the Indus Valley?, What kind of clothes did the people of the Indus Valley wear?, What were their foods?, People of the Indus Valley Literature is one that can tell about daily life and many more things. It is Sangam literature. Indus Valley has more than 2100 Sangam literary town names. These names date back to 5000 BC..the evidence is journey of civilization indus to vaigai book.latitude and longitude are given in this book..the names of this town are only in two areas. One is in Indus Valley in Pakistan and the other is in Tamil Nadu in India..Indus Valley has more Sanga Literary town names than Tamil Nadu.. As Tamil language is very ancient it has changed in every period. Tamil language has changed more than 15 times so its ancient form is not readable now. The alphabet of the Tamil language can be read twelve times, but its primitive form cannot be read. But the Aryans destroyed the source of it...Sanskrit was created by the Tamils themselves. The meaning of Sanskirudam is not even in Rigveda. That meaning is 'Samaikka patta kirudam '. If so, it is a 'Samaikka patta language'. English meaning is cooked language..Created with Tamil grammar and words from literature of many languages.. Everyone explores Indus Valley north and east of India there is no evidence there. But they don't want to explore south of India and places around Indian ocean..why India doesn't allow it..

[@bharasiva96]

Fantastic video. Very informative. Thank you.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank you, glad you enjoyed this and thanks for watching! More on the way, stay tuned!

[@alexanderborschel2135]

Much love my man!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks bro, appreciate the support and hope you're doing well! Looking forward to November!

[@alexanderborschel2135]

@@HistorywithCy You and me both!!!

[@HVLLOWS1999]

I was just thinking I need and would like to know more about the Indus Valley Civ. The you post this video. You really are a legend.

[@Numba003]

The mystery surrounding this civilization is fascinating. I really hope experts manage to find a Rosetta Stone or figure out some of the language of the Harappans one day. Thank you for another excellent video! God be with you out there everybody. ✝️ :)

[@understanding.everything]

We don't have one because it's the first civilization and but not a single Empire it's democracy and no written language

[@WanaxTV]

Always so much to learn from History with Cy’s videos. Where is the Super Thanks!?

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks my friend, glad these vids are useful! Haha no need for super thanks, I'm just thrilled you continue to watch these...that is the best thanks I can get!

[@AintNoFossil]

Very well-researched video 🙏

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, really appreciate the feedback and thanks for watching!

[@ep2934]

Easily one of the most-informative videos I've seen on the Harappan Civilization. I'm fascinated by the mysteries of this ancient culture, not only because of its undeciphered script, but also because of the lessons Subcontinental people could learn from it's genius and contribution to their extant material and intangible cultures, languages, spirituality and the like. So much of their history has been misinterpreted and distorted following centuries of British colonialisation which, because of obvious self-interest, stressed the importance of the IndoEuropean-speaking Vedic and proto-Vedic culture over the "native" Harappan one.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks so much for the kind words, really appreciate them and glad the video was helpful! More Harappan/IVC related content on the way, stay tuned and thanks for watching!

[@mrbaab5932]

Yeah, and is not the Prime Minister of Great Britain an Indo-European?

[@greatkaafir7478]

Lol Not True 😂✌️i

[@ep2934]

@@greatkaafir7478 I prefer to chat with people who give reasons for their claims rather than simply make bold statements per se.

[@IranTalk]

Excellent work, Cy! I am looking forward to a lot more intellectually enriching content from you! Keep it up!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank you, glad you're enjoying these! More on the way, including on ancient Iran, stay tuned and thanks for watching!

[@IranTalk]

@@HistorywithCy No worries my friend, you are welcome as always. Your work is truly groundbreaking and is much more intellectually stimulating than anything else out there. Thanks again for all of the hard work and effort you have put in your videos.

[@HistorywithCy]

@@IranTalk thanks man, really appreciate the kind words!

[@IranTalk]

@@HistorywithCy You are welcome, as always!

[@BenSHammonds]

really enjoyed this program, is a subject of much interest to me

[@HistorywithCy]

Glad you enjoyed it and thanks for watching!

[@BenSHammonds]

@@HistorywithCy is sure my pleasure, am so happy to find good history programming

[@oldacount12]

thank you ❤ for this documentaire

[@hermescarraro3393]

Yes!!! We have returned to the Indian subcontinent! Thanks Cy, this video was awesome and a great way to start my day! Can't wait for the next video in program😊

[@sonarbangla8711]

Recently researchers have found that severe climatological catastrophe was responsible for the end of the Harappan cities and the people went back to agriculture, abandoning urban life.

[@brownvoltaire2722]

kisher research ? koi paiso

[@sonarbangla8711]

@@brownvoltaire2722 AMERICAN ACADEMIC RESEARCH FOUND CLIMATOLOGICAL REASON ENDED HARAPPAN CIVILIZATION.

[@MarianoWilliams420]

Good morning and thanks for the video!!

[@HistorywithCy]

Good day to you as well...thanks so much for watching!

[@ppzoide]

Dudeeeeeeee! Beautiful!!!!!!!

[@ayushgaurincredible]

Our Indian govt. In Gujrat planning to rennovate Lothal site for tourists attraction. It woul be one hell of a theme park. With mentioning of Acropolis as well.

[@HistorywithCy]

Actually I'm going to put out a short video on Lothal soon, stay tuned! Yeah I heard they are building a whole new regional museum and really looking forward to it! I'll probably go back to Ahmedabad in two years so hope it's done by then but not sure what the expected date of completion is. Thanks for watching and the information, appreciate it!

[@ulfpe]

One thing that is very interesting is that there was a number of quite advanced civilizations from 5000 bc and on , even before that. And they lasted quite long

[@crystalpyramid5413]

Such a great civilisation and great documentary thank you

[@rebasingh258]

An excellent presentation.

[@dennisweidner288]

Interesting presentation. Many thanks. I knew so little about the Harapan Civilization. Little gems like this make YT such a pleasure. A question doesn't the asin=milarityb if city planning, written language, and other features virty=uallyv demand since sort of overarching political organization.

[@trivsingaraju5534]

Great. Your next one should be on BMAC. Especially how Indus and BMAC cultures fused around 1500bc

[@HistorywithCy]

Hi, thanks for watching! Actually I did one on BMAC last year... as for the fusion or interaction between the two and others, that's a good idea. I've been putting together something with regard to Bronze Age trade so will incorporate both civilizations into that. Thanks for watching and the suggestions, really appreciate them!

[@nrm224]

Absolutely a great video.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, appreciate the kind words and thanks for watching!

[@TurboKnight865]

Love your Videos Cy.

[@Jzscrstsprstr]

It's (potentionally) the most impressive (to me personally) old bronze age civilization.

[@speedythings7396]

Only if y'all knew ancient architecture of India apart from the sub human Taj Mahal. Just search "Kailasa, Hampi Ruins, konark, etc" and see the world class architecture that was present in ancient India

[@SomasAcademy]

~11:52 Tamed elephants, not domesticated - domestication is a long-term process of selectively breeding organisms for desired traits, and isn't feasible for elephants since they have long lifespans and reproduce slowly. Taming just refers to taking wild animals and making them comfortable around humans, which is much more doable with elephants.

[@TheRedneckPreppy]

Superb video Cy, thanks! Can't say I knew anything about this civilisation before so a great introduction.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks my friend, glad you enjoyed the vid and more ancient civilizations on the way, stay tuned and thanks for watching!

[@monitor-mindtheover-void6712]

Great video!

[@daya9359]

Amazing and wonderful ❤️ Love it from Fiji 🏝 Islands 🇫🇯, and New Zealand 🇳🇿

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks my friend, you are in such beautiful part of the world, I hope to visit it one day! Stay tuned for more and thanks for watching!

[@allasegal4585]

Thanks for your educational and emotional video!🇺🇲🇺🇦

[@Dunno1999]

One of mysterious Civilization in ancient world, if only they left decipher-able document or writing... Love your works! I hope you make video about the far east like Shang China or Jomon Japan!

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, really appreciate the kind words and glad you enjoyed it! I hope to something on China, Japan and perhaps even Korea one day, but I honestly have to study the area more before I feel confident enough to make videos on it. It's on my radar though. Thanks for watching!

[@Oleksa-Derevianchenko]

That's so cool and fascinating! Thank you for making this video! I think the Harappan civilization has declined due to the change of the great rivers' flow. Plus, the ecological problems.

[@MakeMedicalTechnologies]

Super, you are playing down the discovery of Saraswathy River!

[@annepoitrineau5650]

Maybe this was it: constaant flooding risk may have meant a high degree of co-operation between people, which bred respect. I live in a floodable area, and we always have to pull together in times of need.

[@GracieMae493]

That's terrible and beautiful at the same time, I love it

[@jaroddavid5933]

Hey Cy, wanted to ask is it possible for you to post your sources for all the Egypt Dynasty by Dynasty videos… I’ve been cross referencing some of what I’ve learned from that series with other channels and it seems there is a lot of misinformation going around about various claims made about the pyramids, their religion, etc.

[@rtkyalpazz2497]

Gods work. Well made video 👍🏽✊🏽🙏🏽

[@HistorywithCy]

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it! More on the way, stay tuned and thanks for watching!

[@amitavraja3385]

Thanks for this amazing video. As you said this is seriously underrated, we keep hearing about the Egyptian and Mesopotamia civilisations while historians ignore this more sophisticated Indus valley civilisation. The level of urban planning and drainage system is unparallel in the ancient world. I don’t know why historians fail to acknowledge this civilisation compared to others.

[@highpriestofthefarside1157]

Always impressed by Shawn’s openness and courage in speaking about topics considered “taboo” for tough guys. Much respect to that empowered vulnerability

[@histarchus]

Indus Valley Civilization is not a taboo topic. It is the Aryan invasion into India which is taboo, and that too, only in Northern India. The Hintutva nationalists there are convinced that it was ancient Indians who were real Aryans. They even believe that these original indians marched out into the West to civilize the rest of the word. The current ruling party (BJP) is cashing into this mass superstition in view of the 2024 general elections.

[@iexist3919]

I am a simple man. I see new history with cy video, I watch

[@Caligulashorse1453]

Your a simple man you see a bulger you blind him

[@HistorywithCy]

Haha thanks! Hope you continue to enjoy and learn from these and thanks for always tuning in and watching!

[@elimccain1728]

You are simple indian

[@johnguill6129]

As usual, very good work.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank you, appreciate the support and thanks for watching!

[@ruthnovena40]

This was well done.

[@HistorywithCy]

Thank you, appreciate the kind words and feedback!

[@ruthnovena40]

@@HistorywithCy This was a very balanced presentation of what is so far known.

[@Neptunequeen42]

Wow, 'the indus river valley civilization' is so often used as a punchline when mentioning early human societies, I had no idea this much was known about them! Having recently gone on a bit of a bronze age rabbit hole, the idea that there was a peaceful, mostly egalitarian society NOT founded on eternal war and conquest is a nice counterpoint to mesopotamia... but still sad that they collapsed anyway. It's sobering that one of humanity's earliest and most successful social experiments ended up falling not to outside invasion, but to environmental mismanagement. (assuming the theories are correct, of course)

[@adarsharao8957]

> but still sad that they collapsed anyway. They did not collapse. That part of the world turned into a desert. So, the inhabitants migrated to other places. As he mentioned at 10:38, the civilization flourished on the banks of river Saraswathi. My great, great grandfather 'Bharadwaja' used to live there. They used to call that region 'Brahmavartha'. Later my ancestors migrated to a region called 'Dandakaranya' on the banks of river Godavari (the British called it Deccan plateau). 1000 years ago, a great king invited my ancestors to come further south, to a region called 'Karnata desha' on the banks of river Kaveri. We have settled here since then. But we still follow the language, culture, customs and religion of Saraswathi civilization.

[@taxiforniadude1742]

Great video! Was there a reason sites such as Mehrgarh and Bhirrana were not discussed? They go back to 7000BCE and offer glimpses of early cultures that lead to Harappan civilization.

[@HistorywithCy]

Hi, thanks so much for watching and your comment. I focused mainly on the Mature Harappan phase in this video but you're right, something about Mehrgarh, where many think the civilization may have started, would be a good topic for a separate video. Thanks for the suggestion, appreciate it!

[@ayyy9701]

they are classified as before ivc period though