How Freemasonry Influenced Mormonism w/ Stephen Johnson

[@irishandscottish1829]

My papa was a mason. When his fellow masons found out his daughter (my mum) was marrying an Irish catholic (my dad) they were horrified and cornered him. Despite being a master mason and getting other degrees at that moment he told them to shove it where the sun don’t shine and walked out the lodge and away from the masons there and then. Despite never converting to Catholicism and remaining Protestant my nannie and papa would be at Mass in a heart beat watching all of us do our first Holy Communions, our confirmations and any other time when we were doing something special during Mass. When dying both my nannie and papa didn’t request a minister from the Church of Scotland, instead they asked my parents to get them a Priest. After the Priest came to papa and blessed him papa finally found peace as he was no longer seeing what he described as these evil little beings at the end of the bed that he said would torment him.

[@lulabella9249]

Praise be to God! Eternal rest granted to him 🙏

[@anng.4542]

Thank you for sharing this remarkable family history!

[@mugsofmirth8101]

Masons are connected with the Jesuits. Pope Francis is a Jesuit. Therefore I don't believe your story.

[@mugsofmirth8101]

Another thing about the Masons. They accept Catholics into their ranks. In fact they will accept people from any religious background. Only those who are openly atheist are not allowed to join Masonry.

[@irishandscottish1829]

@@mugsofmirth8101tually Catholics were forbidden to join the masons. Even though the excommunication for doing so was lifted in the 80’s a catholic would be an utter fool to join them. My dad married mum before the ban by Pope Celment XII was lifted. 😂 ahh take it the jesuits are your boogeyman 😂😂😂 Perhaps rather than trolling catholic channels you should educate yourself so you don’t look like an uneducated ignorant fool!

[@doodguytheblank2403]

love the youtube "fact check" note

[@Trumpetfiend]

Interesting isn't it? Why would KZbin care if Freemasonry is described correctly?

[@ART224]

Yep. Now I’ve seen it all.

[@mugsofmirth8101]

What's funny is they used to quote Wackypedia. Now they use Britannica. Just let's us know which sources not to trust and which videos are onto something.

[@mugsofmirth8101]

@@ART224 they've been doing that at least since 2020

[@kpfagerberg]

@@Trumpetfiendthey put these things on videos that go against the narrative. They state abortion is good, the covid shot is safe, etc

[@realDonaldMcElvy]

Freemasons: We have a secret society, you can't see our rituals Joseph Smith: Hold my (non-alcoholic) beer.

[@Saint_nobody]

😂 gets better. The book of Mormon constantly rails against secret societies.

[@Isaac_Hess]

Oh, Joseph Smith drank a lot of beer. Mormons didn't stop drinking beer until the early 20th century.

[@CheyneTrammell]

Joseph Smith Jr. drank full-strength beer. The oracle from God called the word of wisdom, specifically recommends it. Otherwise comment is right on point. 👍

[@CheyneTrammell]

​@@Saint_nobodyMore like "secret combinations" or secret conspiracies.

[@realDonaldMcElvy]

@@CheyneTrammell Mormons refuse not only alcohol, but even caffeine. They take prohibition farther than any other group.

[@siegfriedderheld7806]

ExMO here. In the 1980s I made gestures to slice my throat, slit my chest open, and disembowel myself rather than reveal the secret signs and tokens (handshakes) of the Mormon priesthood inside the Salt Lake Mormon Temple. Nobody told me this would happen in advance. Mormons also used to embrace each other with “the five points of fellowship.” These things were removed around 1990. Mormons would say the things in the temple were sacred-not secret. Yet the first instructions one received were that these were to remain SECRET except at a certain place that would be shown hereafter (the veil). The common Mormon apology for these was they went back to the Temple of Solomon with the Levitical Priesthood. In Mormon theology I’m condemned to “outer darkness” for telling you these things. When I became a Christian I felt no compulsion to not talk about the scare tactics used in the temple. The fact the the Mormon hierarchy has removed them speaks volumes, .

[@MapleBoarder78]

You beat me to it. I was going to post about the “slit throat” gestures you had to do in the temple. Crazy stuff. Mormons of the 80’s and before are a completely different animal compared to the 90’s+ Mormons. 80’s Mormons would debate you tooth and nail that they would become Gods of their own planets after exaltation. “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea. He was once a man like us, yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an Earth.” -Joseph Smith (1st Prophet) “All those who are counted worthy to be exalted and to become Gods, even the sons of God, will go forth and have earths and worlds like those who framed this and millions and millions of others.“ -Brigham Young (2nd Prophet) “They shall be able to go out into space where there is unorganized matter and call together the necessary elements, and through their knowledge of and control over the laws and powers of nature, to organize matter into worlds on which their posterity may dwell, and over which they shall rule as Gods.” -Lorenzo Snow (5th Prophet) Current Mormons become extremely uncomfortable now when confronted with that theology. They will side skirt the issue or say things like, “Well, we’re not really sure if that’s the case or not, we don’t really discuss that.”

[@CheyneTrammell]

Brigham Young altered, adulterated, or interpolated the temple rites to an unknown extent. What is practiced now may or may not resemble the rites established by Joseph Smith Junior. The extend of it can't be known until at least the heretofore unpublished diaries of William Clayton are finally released by the Brighamite church HQ'd in SLC.

[@lance7607]

I went through the temple in 1984 in Atlanta. Nothing prepared me for the experience in advance. I wore a garment that was completely open on both sides, all the way down, with no underclothing beneath while I was ushered from one partition to the next for the washing and anointing (the partitions were basically little cubicles separated by hanging sheets). And then of course the endowment. By the time I left the temple my brain was already engaged in damage control, trying to convince itself that it was all so meaningful and spiritual, that it was everything I'd been told it would be, that I'd learned so much, etc. Truth is, it was creepy and disturbing and--in terms of knowledge content--pretty empty. I was shell-shocked.

[@MapleBoarder78]

@@CheyneTrammell “Brigham Young altered, adulterated, or interpolated the temple rites to an unknown extent. What is practiced now may or may not resemble the rites established by Joseph Smith Junior.” Is that merely speculation, or is there actual evidence showing the temple rites were changed?

[@CheyneTrammell]

@MapleBoarder78 Brigham Young explicitly said as much in general and we have good history for several specific ones. Can't post links. Brigham Young purportedly claimed: Joseph Smith said to me “Brother Brigham, this is not arranged right, but we have done the best we could under the circumstances in which we are placed, and I want you to take this matter in hand and organize and systematize all these ceremonies.” One well known example of interpolation or alteration being the oath of vengeance. Another being the law of adoption. Another being Adam-God doctrine incorporated therein. Publication of the diaries which are indeed extant would be the most illuminating.

[@hollayevladimiroff131]

Thank you so much for this video, this is one of the main reasons that I left the church, finding that the Temple was not inspired was a shock, and another shock was finding Jesus is created, Jesus is not created, He is eternal.

[@knz10639]

Yes!! Same!!

[@user-ep8xo1od9o]

Can you invite the Harvard professsor Jewish turned Catholic Roy Scohoeman, his conversion story is amazing, he met Our Lady knowing nothing of her as an atheist and converted as a result

[@DaltonHBrown]

Sadly, my brothers converted to Mormonism. We were all raised protestant and after college I became Catholic. While my oldest brother was in Utah he met a girl and he converted to be with her. My middle brother who from childhood followed our oldest brother in almost everything, went to live in Utah with them and after a few years he too converted.

[@HoradrimBR]

When religion is more about culture than the Truth. Very common among "raised catholic" people as well, unfortunatelly.

[@DaltonHBrown]

@HoradrimBR I agree. We didn't have a strong family unit growing up and my oldest brother spent years in a group home for unruly teen boys. And I think the strong family values of mormonism are what drew him into it.

[@michaelolson3266]

Why is this sad?

[@HouseOfAntioch]

Yeah this is very sad and preventable. The LDS Church is just another false church espousing non-Christian rubbish

[@Compulsive-Elk7103]

​@@HaleStorm49no, no they didn't.

[@taylordl28]

Small clarification... the only "secret" part of the Mormon temple ceremony is the signs and tokens. The creation story is not secret and is part of their canon that all can read.

[@Bytheirfruitsshall]

What about the god becoming? being a god of your own planet. So so like the "every man and woman is a star" of the OTO wouldn't you say?

[@mollyedwards7494]

And the washing and anointing …and the sealings…basically the whole endowment. Also the baptisms are not spoken of to anyone outside of the temple unless you’ve submitted them yourself.

[@davidlgray]

I'll get around one day to explain the part that he could not disclose. I hope one day this young man completely breaks those ties and isn't afraid to tell secrets.

[@tessa7413]

He probably has family and friends that are Mormon, and doesn’t want to disrespect them.

[@christinep5807]

Mr. Gray, I just made a comment about Matt Fradd inviting you to Pints. You have a great story to share and you’re hilarious!

[@thisisjeff9845]

If you ask Mormons now they will admit to the temple ceremonies coming from the Masons. They'll say that the Masons are an ancient organization that goes back to the days of building Solomon's Temple, even though they don't, and the rituals were done in Solomon's Temple. Joseph Smith just had to join the Masons to rediscover those rituals and clean them up a bit for use by Mormons. At least that's what I was told when I was a Mormon.

[@Bytheirfruitsshall]

The connection with Solomon is magic and demons, but the organisation is of course actually a pyramid shape, rigid hierarchy and panopticon - it's all a working fiction, the cover story changes depending on the level.

[@anjalE30]

They don't know the truth The church teaches ignorance and arrogance. The members only repeat what they're told The blind lead the blind ! If they ever read the bible they would KNOW that Solomon lost his kingdom because he turned from God and started worshipping other gods and doing evil !!

[@TheRichmondRoadie]

I was very uncomfortable with the temple ceremony and spoke with my Mormon bishop about it. This is exactly what he told me.

[@knz10639]

I was told that too. When I learned about the freemason thing I asked my bishop and other leaders about it and they all casually explained JS had to be a Mason to learn those things so "god" could teach him the "true way" which is what's in the LDS temples. No one could give a more satisfactory answer than that. So because it isn't biblical (amongst other reasons and issues with mormonism), I left.

[@SaintCharbelMiracleworker]

Freemason was also involved in establishing SDA cult. William Miller, co-founder of SDA was a freemason.

[@agm8554]

Whoa, I didn't know that one.

[@anng.4542]

The Wikipedia page for the Adventists only lists Joseph Bates, James White and Ellen G. White, and J.N. Andrews as the founders.

[@mugsofmirth8101]

George Washington and many (if not all) of the US Presidents belonged to their society.

[@SaintCharbelMiracleworker]

@@anng.4542 Wikipedia is unreliable. Dig deeper.

[@Bytheirfruitsshall]

@@anng.4542 depends who anon edits it really

[@anng.4542]

Not the only denomination that had Masonic origins. The founder of the African Methodist Episcopal (AME) Church was a Prince Hall Mason.

[@Bytheirfruitsshall]

Islam is masonic, the umma follow sharia law, the gnostic sufi elite have the original system of mystery school "god becoming" and have seeded their tares everwhere.

[@IntrinsicNRJ]

I respect the guy for being respectful towards others that hold certain things sacred. That's character.

[@jmccallion2394]

Don't apologise: Call them out for the liars they are!!!

[@darlameeks]

Several of my family members are involved with freemasonry, but seem to tolerate we Catholics in the family (I am Catholic, my cousin's wife and children/grandchildren are Catholic, and my uncle converted after he married a Catholic). We should remember that many of the American founding fathers were freemasons. George Washington was a Master Mason. Ben Franklin, also a freemason, wanted to keep German Catholics from immigrating to the U.S. It is well known as an anti-Catholic organization, which isn't to say that all freemasons are intolerant of Catholics...they just likely would resist conversion. When people say, "America is a Christian nation"...well, no. The U.S. was founded on Masonic principles that allowed freedom to practice any religion, but no establishment of any particular official state religion (thus, the anti-establishment clause of the Constitution). So, the U.S. isn't a Christian nation, but it is a nation with Christians in it.

[@JJ-ki6sv]

So, syncretism...

[@JJ-ki6sv]

Again our chief Catholic founding father Charles Carroll, was not a mason. Archbishop Carroll, the first US Bishop, his relative, and others were a large part of 1st amendment protections of religious freedom as our nation was not friendly to Catholics in the beginning.

[@Bytheirfruitsshall]

So sorry, but its basic purpose IS anti Catholic, it came to the west in multiple waves via islam/ sufism. (Read the history of the assassins), and caused the 1st gnostic heresies that became islam, and before Christianity? the mind altering trauma based mystery schools.

[@JJ-ki6sv]

Also, the establishment of much of the country was done by explicitly Catholic people in Catholic areas founded by Spaniards and French, and we can't pretend that doesn't have an influence in even the legal foundation of this country. Especially in Louisiana, for example, the legal system is very French influenced, and even the Deism of the (often, but not always) founding fathers largely takes things they learned from the Christendom established by the Church for granted.

[@Compulsive-Elk7103]

America is a Christian country , whether you people like it or not!

[@patty7016]

My grandfather was a low level mason, and I'm worried about his soul.

[@guilherme.murakami]

meu padrinho também, e eu ouvi falar que um maçom na família pode acabar amaldiçoando parentes próximos. agora estou preocupado com ambas minha alma e a dele. sem mencionar a de meus parentes

[@knz10639]

Ex-mormon here. I went through the LDS temple, all of the ordnances, ceremonies, covenants, whatever you want to call them. When I learned about the freemason stuff I looked at and compared the freemason handshakes, etc to the LDS temple stuff and was SHOCKED! Mormon temples are 100% from freemasonry. No ifs ands or buts about it! I praise YHWH, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, my God, that I am free from that false religion!!

[@allanmason3201]

1:20 "I don't want to continue in this vein and offend someone. This is held as pretty sacred amongst LDS people." I always chuckle when an apologist uses a line like that. What they're actually saying is, "See? I'm being nice and not enumerating all the absurd aspects of your belief system, so you're not allowed to respond by pointing out all the ridiculous things that *_I_* believe, m-kay?"

[@ljdowle5431]

Matt, can you interview a convert from Masonry to Catholicism? It would be super interesting to learn more about it. I have a friend who is Masonic and I don’t know if I should distance entirely from him or not

[@sheribrogden9247]

Wow! Just rocked my little world. I am surprised how much this parallels the occult teachings. More lies against the teachings of Jesus.

[@EpoRose1]

I totally watched that episode with Kyle and the ex-Mormon and the Masonic stuff.

[@KyleWhittington]

I totally wanted to name Jacob but didn't want to throw him under the bus in case Stephen said "nah, it's conspiracy theory nonsense"

[@davidlintonrecords7062]

Paired with my other comment, when it comes to Freemasonry (particularly in Europe, and its goals against the Catholic Church) and Joseph Smith, here’s one quote he gave in 1843, which is in harmony with how he believed, taught, and went about his life, that Jesus would show charity unto all who are in need and how he did not harbor feelings against the people of the Catholic Church, which is in harmony with his teaching about those of other faiths which I’ll also share: “…The Saints can testify whether I am willing to lay down my life for my brethren. If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a Mormon, I am bold to declare before heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist or a good man of any other denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholics or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves. It is a love of liberty which inspires my Soul, civil and religious liberty to the whole of the human race…” And here’s the other quote I mentioned, which Joseph Smith wrote-it is part of our scripture (I can show how an open canon is not unbiblical either, but two references are Deuteronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22:18-19, which when taken into context, because the Bible was not compiled at the time, that both scriptures refer to what was being written itself) called the Pearl of Great Price, known as the 13 articles of faith: 11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may

[@thomasbomdhil]

I would like how this affect some of the fantasy books written by Mormoms like Sanderson books or some Dragonlance books

[@tessa7413]

Oh wasn’t the woman who wrote the “Twilight” series Mormon too?

[@thomasbomdhil]

@@tessa7413 yes!!!! Christine Meyer I guess

[@spmcg_]

Hate to be that guy, but Freemasonry is one word 😕

[@Saint_nobody]

Bro, I love you for that. Be a stickler for exact details. Be not ashamed of such tact either. Peace be with you. ☻

[@secondson1186]

I’m the same way.

[@joshuaroy7567]

I was wondering what the LDS church had to do with stoneworkers that don't charge you money 😉

[@ThatCapnGeech]

Thanks for the freelesson

[@AJKPenguin]

Is it? #ConspiracyMan ; )

[@charlesmendeley9823]

"rises pretty quickly": actually he went through all three rituals in two consecutive days. This is a special rule called "at sight" when a Grandmaster is present.

[@christinep5807]

Can you try having David L. Gray n your show? Former Freemason now turned Catholic.

[@marcusdoverly8524]

Actually, The LDS temple ceremonies are more closely related to Egyptian rituals. You can take tours of it at the Karnack temple complex.

[@EricSmyth4Christ]

@@marcusdoverly8524 tell me more

[@Hundmist]

By the way, the first vision was an endowment and was 20 years before JS became a mason

[@davidlintonrecords7062]

Hi! I’m a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and yes, it’s absolutely true. I want to express my deepest, most heartfelt thanks to the interviewee for not revealing what we believe is so, so sacred. That was truly special to me, really. I want to preface this comment with my awareness of the delicate nature of how Catholics feel about Freemasonry because of its goals, particularly in Europe, against the Catholic Church. I want to be sensitive to that. 👍👍 I also want to say that the Masons adopted symbolism and iconography from early Christianity. It’s possible they made them up, but research on masonry indicates that it was taken from early church practices. For example, it’s most likely that Masonic signs originated with the set of gestures utilized by a few of the Orthodox monastic orders. It’s possible that instruction of masonry was rooted in Monastic [or Monastery] worship. If we combine The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ use of this symbolism and iconography with Genesis (it’s important to note that the religious teachings and worship in temples and many of the ordinances themselves have nothing to do with Masonic symbols and iconography, but instead have a Christ-centered focus) and how the world as it’s described in creation was not symbolic back then. It was commonly thought outside of a religious view, and understood and believed by those both who followed God and those who did not that the earth was flat. Is God lying in His Word? No, instead He is using what those at the time understood in order to teach an eternal truth, the truth of creation. Similarly, the Masonic elements of the endowment-those who lived back then could understand what that symbolism meant when it came to the endowment. It’s a way to understand God, and the symbolic aspects are one way we can come to better understand what God’s trying to teach us. Please keep in mind Isaiah’s prophecies (in Isaiah) about the temple in the last days. -as a side note, the washing/anointing/clothing ordinance in the temple called the Initiatory (which is the initiation or rather the start of the endowment (an endowment, or the act of bestowing a gift or to clothe upon (but not necessarily physical clothing itself, but a clothing of power, of Christ’s name, of authority, and priesthood power) is a biblical practice, as we can read in Luke 24: 49, James 1: 17, Acts 1: 4-5, 8 but also in Exodus 40: 12-15 But also Baptism for the Dead (1 Corinthians 15: 29, which, beforehand, Paul is making the case for Jesus’ resurrection and our resurrection, culminating in the rhetorical question which I’ll paraphrase: Why are [those who believe in Jesus’ and our resurrection] baptizing for the dead if the dead rise not at all? Temple sealings or being married according to God’s Law for eternity. We can look to Matthew 22:29-30 to see the main argument against eternal marriage. This is the official take on the matter: “[Jesus Christ] is not denying but limiting the prevailing concept that there will be marrying and giving in marriage in heaven. He is saying that as far as ‘they’ (the Sadducees) are concerned, that as far as ‘they’ (‘the children of this world’) are concerned, the family unit does not and will not continue in the resurrection. … “‘Therefore, when they [those who will not, do not, or cannot live the law of eternal marriage] are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage’ [D&C 132:16]. “That is, there is neither marrying nor giving in marriage in heaven for those to whom Jesus was speaking; for those who do not even believe in a resurrection, let alone all the other saving truths” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 3 vols. [1965-73], 1:606). The following verses support this argument, in supporting the resurrection (of which the Sadducees did not believe in) which supported the teaching we believe Jesus was trying to teach: 31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the aGod of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. In the temple, the teachings of the Bible is valued and important in a very all encompassing way, but with the teachings and practices being in harmony with Jesus Christ’s fulfillment of the Law of Moses and in harmony with the eternal Law of God. I look forward to taking time to reply to any other videos about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[@sergioochoa9598]

Is there any scriptures in the book of Mormon about baptism for the dead , temple marriage or about the holy garments ?? Please share if you find any

[@davidlintonrecords7062]

@@sergioochoa9598 sure! I actually am making a fb post about it. Here’s what I’ve got so far: What makes baptisms for the dead a Christian practice? A few things, first, we need to look at the Bible. Jesus, while on the cross, said to the thief next to him ‘Today thou shalt be with me in paradise’ Luke 23:43 But he tells Mary Magdalene in John 20:17 ‘Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father.’ Well, what does this mean? Jesus says that in my Father’s House are many mansions, and that His Father is in Heaven. To members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, this means that Jesus was somewhere else for those three days. It’s also important to note that Jesus does not say to the thief: today you shall be with me in Heaven but instead, you shall be with me in Paradise. Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that there is a middle place, both a purgatory, or Spirit Prison, and paradise. These together make up the Spirit World. 1 Corinthians 15 talks about these baptisms for the dead. Paul, in speaking to those who did not believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ or ourselves, says: 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. … 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive…. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. … 29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? I have had several different interpretations of this scripture explained to me, but none of them gel with how it seems the whole chapter is trying to convey or what Paul is trying to teach, that just as Jesus Christ was resurrected, there will be a resurrection of everyone else. If we look to 1 Peter 4:6, we can read that those in the Spirit world are taught the Gospel so that they can be live as sons and daughters of God. We believe these efforts were undertaken upon Jesus’ visit to the Spirit World, where he went to with the thief who died on the cross with him. We can look to Jesus saying to Mary, touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my father to know that for those three days, Jesus was somewhere other than Heaven. This is expounded upon in our additional scripture. (I can talk about that here too, Sergio, if you’d like?) 6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. In this way it’s somewhat similar to the Catholic Baptism by Desire, but these scriptures provide a more concrete view of how exactly those who pass away can come to the knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and can be Saved.

[@davidlintonrecords7062]

Here is my post again. The word d3ath and its variants are used because I don’t think the KZbin Algorithm likes the actual word: Here’s what I’ve got so far, in What makes baptisms for the d3ad a Christian practice, something which is going to go up on my fb in a few days after Holy Week: A few things, first, we need to look at the Bible. Jesus, while on the cross, said to the thief next to him ‘Today thou shalt be with me in paradise’ Luke 23:43 But he tells Mary Magdalene in John 20:17 ‘Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father.’ Well, what does this mean? Jesus says that in my Father’s House are many mansions, and that His Father is in Heaven. To members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, this means that Jesus was somewhere else for those three days. It’s also important to note that Jesus does not say to the thief: today you shall be with me in Heaven but instead, you shall be with me in Paradise. Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that there is a middle place, both a purgatory, or Spirit Prison, and paradise. These together make up the Spirit World. 1 Corinthians 15 talks about these baptisms for the d3ad. Paul, in speaking to those who did not believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ or ourselves, says: 12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the d3ad, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the d3ad? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the d3ad, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. … 20 But now is Christ risen from the d3ad, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came d3ath, by man came also the resurrection of the d3ad. 22 For as in Adam all d!e, even so in Christ shall all be made alive…. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is d3ath. … 29 Else what shall they do which are baptized for the d3ad, if the d3ad rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the d3ad? I have had several different interpretations of this scripture explained to me, but none of them gel with how it seems the whole chapter is trying to convey or what Paul is trying to teach, that just as Jesus Christ was resurrected, there will be a resurrection of everyone else. If we look to 1 Peter 4:6, we can read that those in the Spirit world are taught the Gospel so that they can be live as sons and daughters of God. We believe these efforts were undertaken upon Jesus’ visit to the Spirit World, where he went to with the thief who di3d on the cross with him. We can look to Jesus saying to Mary, touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my father to know that for those three days, Jesus was somewhere other than Heaven. 6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are d3ad, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. In this way it’s somewhat similar to the Catholic Baptism by Desire, but these scriptures provide a more concrete view of how exactly those who pass away can come to the knowledge of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[@davidlintonrecords7062]

@@sergioochoa9598 so my reply keeps getting deleted. :/ I assume KZbin is not allowing it to stay. Let me try once more.

[@davidlintonrecords7062]

@@sergioochoa9598 so something’s up with my replies. They keep getting taken down. :/

[@ader3867]

Wow…interesting! Never heard that before!

[@Deathbytroll]

"Freemasons" 👀

[@michaelparks5669]

tell us which LDS temple rites are Masonic. I am a Mason and I never went through the ones found in the LDS church.

[@bowyerbushcraft2359]

I’m a Freemason and an LDS member and to say the ceremony’s are very similar isn’t correct. The LDS temple has a very small Masonic influence but the purpose and teachings are totally different, a Freemason wouldn’t recognise it as his own at all

[@DigitalLogos]

LDS sounds like what fundie Protestants think Catholicism is

[@467076]

Is my man here Catholic? I haven’t listened to this episode yet but isn’t the problem with Catholics nowadays that we don’t want to “offend” people by speaking out against their nonsense? I heard Matt say that multiple times before as well. Anywho, just a thought.

[@joshuaroy7567]

I think he had the knowledge but hadn't given it the proper thought to express it without *unnecessary* offense (that's a danger with off-the-cuff Q+A). We still need to love those who disagree with us. I have found myself in many circumstances where in the middle of a thought I see where it's going and need to stop it before it gets there.

[@joenelson3037]

He was concerned about offending, hence he only spoke a partial truth.

[@467076]

@@joshuaroy7567 could be true. This is just a short clip so I could've missed the rest. I do think Catholics need to express their faith more. To many luke warm Catholics, including myself two years ago lol Praise God though.

[@SameerSherwinKhan]

It's not loving to respect falsehoods, it's important to correct their errors for the salvation of their souls and all those listening.@@joshuaroy7567

[@markjames2747]

This video demonstrates ignorance of both free masonry and the temple endowment. Was there influence from free masonry in the temple endowment, yes. Are the two “very close”? Not at all. Anyone well acquainted with both would never make that statement.

[@Hundmist]

Here’s an idea, research the original religion. What were the practices of Mesopotamia or ancient Egypt? What do the engravings on the pyramids symbolize? Bruce Porter might be able to shed some ideas

[@abigailwonnacott8660]

Why dont you actually have a member of our church (lds) on your show?? I recommend Jacob Hansen from thoughtful faith.

[@D-Flin]

I a Mormon, I appreciate you respecting that we hold the temple sacred

[@stars_and_roses3716]

You should watch the rest of the episode.

[@CheyneTrammell]

Might it be said, Joseph Smith Junior baptized the rites and rituals of freemasonry?

[@irishandscottish1829]

No as he had no authority from Our Lord to do so

[@CheyneTrammell]

@@irishandscottish1829 Actually he did, but let's let the Lord speak for himself in giving the word of life to man. On one of many occasions on Tuesday January, 19th 1841 in Nauvoo, Illinois in these United States, he said: "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven". Plus, it's my understanding from a Catholic point of view, baptism doesn't always require authority, especially in danger of death.

[@Bytheirfruitsshall]

As they are an inversion of Christianity, the usual godbecoming ego inflation, that would be no.

[@tessa7413]

@@CheyneTrammellwhy should we trust or believe Joseph Smith?

[@Chanokh]

You all know Freemasons worship Nimrod right?

[@BarrettVanDyke]

Latter-day Saint here. The guest has accurately described some of the form of what happens in the Temple but is missing all the substance. Also, the themes & concepts in the Temple Endowment were being taught by Joseph Smith Jr. well before the Nauvoo period. The Masonic rituals acted more as a vehicle to transmit the deeper meaning.

[@BarrettVanDyke]

@@Anyone690 Good morning. Yes, it was intended to be a correction.

[@mollyedwards7494]

“The Masonic rituals acted more as a vehicle to transmit the deeper meaning.” Honest question: Do you believe that this is the same theory used by the church to make the claim as to how the Book of Abraham was translated from the Egyptian papyri funeral texts as a means of inspiration and not literal translation?

[@BarrettVanDyke]

@@mollyedwards7494 Good afternoon, Molly. If I understand you correctly, I would say there is some similarity. However, I wouldn’t characterize the Masonic rituals as the catalyst that spurred the Endowment, but a vehicle for the presentation of the Endowment (Endowment & presentation of the Endowment need to be distinguished). If you are curious to understand more on the matter, there is a brief video from a professor at BYU I could post here. I thinks it’s around 300 seconds in length.

[@breddygud6890]

Gee, it sure is good that I can see the signs, tokens and passwords on KZbin to get past the sentinel angels and hack my way into the celestial kingdom. Esoteric nonsense.

[@CheyneTrammell]

Stated by Brigham Young, not Joseph Smith Junior.

[@jaredselim2689]

@@CheyneTrammell, a number of Smith's contemporaries recognized the Masonic quality of the Temple Endowment while he was alive (Yes, Young referred to the token specifically, but Smith was familiar with them and spoke in congruent terms.

[@CheyneTrammell]

@@jaredselim2689 just clarifying who the original author of the specific statement alluded to above in the above caricature. In such matters, the authority and ramifications of a claim depend greatly upon the man making it. Brigham Young is not Joseph Smith Junior. Am merely trying to shed light by preemptively preventing conflation of the two men's words. I also didn't speak to the claim of the Masonic parallels or origins. Happy to though. And I appreciate the language of your kind response 👍

[@bobbyguzman3058]

I am a Catholic Mason, if anyone has any questions id love to clear up some misconceptions.

[@BrendanKeenan-z2i]

That is an oxymoron sir. The Church has repeatedly and unequivocally taught that Catholics are forbidden from being masons. If you reject the teaching of the Church, you are outside of communion with her. I'll leave it to a canon lawyer to say if you've excommunicated yourself, but you should refrain from receiving any sacraments until you confess and renounce your masonic affiliation. You cannot serve two masters, and if you think the Masons aren't masters, you've bought their lies.

[@thomasjorge4734]

Scarlett Johansen on Mormonism?

[@faithisnotblindpodcast]

If you watch this, don’t let anyone with the cute anecdotes about being an uninformed missionary convince you that the Church hid the connections between masonry and temples. I was in high school in the 90’s when I read a book called “The Relationship of Mormonism and Freemasonry” that written by Anthony Irvins who was a member of the First Presidency in 1934. Your shocked tones in this video feel contrived and disingenuous. Did you think Joseph Smith should have been given an instruction manual for how to restore the Church? Would it still be a faith-based system if Joseph Smith weren’t affected by his culture (which he and his contemporaries never denied)? Why do you refuse to even let Faith be a part of the Mormon Faith? Temple worship is about making a connection with God. The clothing and the symbols are arbitrary. God helps endow our lives with meaning individually through our relationship with him, not through the gestures or clothing. The temple is set apart as a sacred space, but what it looks like is not as important as HOW we connect to him. How do you connect to God, Stephen?

[@monocuco818]

People need to understand that a lot of the Free Mason signs and symbols come from early Christianity. Many are similar to what you would find in kings/queens coronations which have been around Europe for centuries. Free Masons didn't invent the symbols, but adopted them into a ritual from earlier Christianity. These may have come from Christ's own teachings with the first Apostles. Remember, Christ taught and did a LOT of things that were not written. The Bible makes that much clear! And a lot of this occurred in the temple. It is also important to realize that the mormon (LDS) endowment has much more than what is found in Free Masonry, meaning, Joseph Smith only used a few pieces of what he found as part of the mormon endowment. There is also more than the endowment which occur in the temple that was not influenced by masonry. So this video presumes to say that the entire endowment is taken from Free Masonry, which is not even remotely true.

[@BrandonCole_edohi]

As a Latter-day Saint and as a Freemason who has studied this subject for years, I would note that the similarities are quite superficial, having only to do with elements adopted from the Masonic teaching model (e.g., concepts of theatrical presentation, of gestures for tokens, of illustrative symbols, etc.). The subject matter, context, and purposes of the degrees of Masonry, however, wholly differ from those of the Church's temple ceremonies. I would also note that Joseph advanced through the three *degrees* of Masonry quickly, but not through any of the ranks (synonymous with "offices" or "chairs") of Masonry. For those who may be interested in hearing about this topic from one who has firsthand knowledge/experience on this subject, I gave an interview on the matter here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3OVfqN8e9d5kLM

[@rarerides]

Lol

[@Compulsive-Elk7103]

I can't believe you people actually defend that...

[@BrandonCole_edohi]

@@Compulsive-Elk7103 Defense of the truth is rarely popular.

[@zzzwy777]

freemasons are professional liars, manipulators and deceivers

[@Jjj53214]

Freemasonry did not influence Smith’s interpretation of the gospel of Christ. Smith made use of Freemason rituals to convey his interpretation of the gospel of Christ. Smith’s methodology involved borrowing ideas that were common to his culture and giving it a new meaning.

[@Nwp31]

Please have on Jacob Hansen of KZbin channel Thoughtful Faith if want to have a serious conversation about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[@Winstanleyisbadazz]

He does not have serious conversations. He tries to provoke larger content creators to poach their audiences. He plays at being philosopher but can't give sound arguments. Find another Mormon man to idolize.

[@Nwp31]

@@Winstanleyisbadazz Yea I agree, potatoes suck.

[@bbbhhhaaa7008]

Mason here. I'm glad to not see any slander thrown towards the Craft from here especially considering this is a Catholic channel. If you're going to do a larger segment on the Brotherhood please be objective, fair and truthful. There are many of us Brethren as Christians and we want Christ's reign as much as you all.

[@JJ-ki6sv]

Sorry sir. No secret societies, especially those who have explicitly fought and tried to destroy the church, see Plutarco Calles of Mexico

[@Bicicletasaladas]

Interesting. How do you reconcile the desire for the Eternal Kingdom of Christ, with the certainty of Jesus being one more in a line of many sun-gods as we were let in on during an open evening?

[@Bytheirfruitsshall]

When will you become a god thru your generative power?

[@bbbhhhaaa7008]

@@Bicicletasaladas no idea what part of Masonry you're talking about but that is not what we deal with.

[@bbbhhhaaa7008]

@@Anyone690 that's not for you decide but for God to decide if we take Christ as our savior. Very divisive comment and doesn't help anything or anyone.

[@callibanpatrich1290]

a bearded woman