How Good Are Angels and Arch Angels in Heroes 3 HotA?

How good are Angels and Arch Angels in Heroes of Might and Magic 3 Horn of the Abyss expansion (Homm3 HotA)? Let's find out!
****
00:00 Rules & Angels
06:38 Arch Angels
****
The unit tested will face six trials:
- Castle Attack
- Battle vs. A Horde
- Battle vs. Elite
- Battle vs. Missile Units
- Battle vs. Army
- Castle Defense
They will score points from these, as well as from abilities in campaign map, construction chain costs and from the army costs. The army is determined by 20 weeks of growth. The tested units will be controlled by human, and tactics can be used.
I hope you enjoy the video :)
If you are a fan of Heroes 3 or play the game, check this video out. You learn new things about the game in terms of unit cost-effectiveness especially regarding Angels and Arch Angels.
#heroesofmightandmagic3 #hornoftheabyss #heroes3

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

There is a Rematch of Arch Angels vs. Army battle here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/haDWeIatmJtkndk Thanks for the feedback about how to do the battle better :)

[@ImDrizzt]

ah was gonna say, i also think u might have won, if u had just gone all in on the behemoths instead of moving all the way top left, lose too much, bleeding angels vs thunderbirds and the ranged when u go back, also devestating to let the Behemoths get the first swing with 20 of them still alive

[@alinmeleandra3175]

Looking at the fight between archangels and the Stronghold army, I think was misplayed. Due to how the resurrection mechanic for archangels works (each aa can resurrect 100points of killed friendly units), you can theoretically get 4 archangels for every stack of 10. In practice, it implies that stack of less than 3 are useless, and you get maximum benefit if you have as many stacks of 5 or 10 as possible. Also, archangels have the 3rd highest speed in the game so they will always have initiative against units with lower speed. Since heroes 3 is a game that favors units with initiative, it is quite important to play around the fact that archangels will strike first, so "waiting" has to be used carefully. Waiting in the first round allowed the opponent to kill one archangel using range units without the archangels doing any single point of damage. Target acquisition is also critical. Going for the wolfs made no sense at all. Since archangels have the highest attack and defense of all units (except the neutral dragons) hitting units that can do damage to angels first is probably the best strategy. Thus: i would split the archangels into 4 groups. I would wait on the first 2 groups and use the 3rd and 4th groups to attack the Behemoths. 20 archangels will do exactly 1550 damage to the Behemoth killing exactly 5. The retaliation strike will barely kill 2 archangels, while Behemoths first strike will probably kill 2 more archangels with 3 to 4 more being killed by rest of the army. Resurrecting with the stacks that we did the "waiting" will replenish the stacks that lost units and for the second round I would switch between the units. Units that waited in the first round, I would use to hit the Behemoths and the stacks that were initially used for that I would use to kill off chieftains or ogres or even kite away from the melee to make sure, that I get to use the second round of resurrects with these units. Anyway after using resurrect with all 4 groups, I would just focus down units as much as possible and always try to remove the highest threats (Behemoths first, Cyclops and Orges, TBs and so on). Note: I have tested this a few times and the results were quite interesting. I won 7 out of 10 fights with morale being a clear deciding factor in 2 of those wins (2 won by archangels, 1 by army). Not sure why I lost 3 fights, they were close but still loses...

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. I agree with you. :) I did a rematch of this battle based on the community feedback and it ended up in victory. Link to the match is here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/haDWeIatmJtkndk

Can you upload a video of the same fight? Would be great!

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@ Thanks for the comment. I guess I already have. Link below :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/haDWeIatmJtkndk

[@Alpostpone]

Finally dragons met their match :) Stronghold army was close, but papa-moth was still the daddy

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Haha, indeed :) Thanks for the comment.

[@rhadooh]

I think the fight against Stronghold could have been won if you went directly for the behemoths after resurrection

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. That might be the case. When making the video I was pondering should I target the Behes right away but decided to try to avoid them. Perhaps that guided my actions a bit too far. :)

[@MsBombastik]

@@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu just admit you choked that fight completely, it happens :)

[@Alpostpone]

Did behemoth still have the shield at that point? Shielded behe is basically invincible in these matches. If the AI hero can cast spells, it might make sense if player hero can cast dispel then.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@Alpostpone Thanks for the comment. I agree. On the other hand, this battle is meant to be really challenging so that we can get differences between the top tier units. Thus, imo only the enemy having spells provides some extra challenge here. (Though I have to admit that slow on fast units here is really annoying :D)

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@MsBombastik Might be :D Thanks for the comment.

[@Winnetou17]

The normal angels fight vs Stronghold army was a thing of beauty. Novels and shows will be made about it. Those were the whitest blue balled behemoths ever.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. :)

[@adrianszwed651]

Archangels have no special ability? Really? I know it refer to map abilities, but it's funny when you say that about unit with one of the most OP skill.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. I get your point. Imo it was counted in almost every battle. The casualties would have been higher without resurrection :)

[@Winnetou17]

@@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu Maybe it can be reworded to be like "no extra special abilitiies" or something like that. I admit that my brain also froze a bit when I saw that on the archangels and only AFTER that, like 1 second later, I realized: oh yeah, that's a battle speciality, it was taken into account.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@Winnetou17 Thanks for the comment. There will be clarification for this in the next video :)

[@benwer6865]

Nice idea with the 3 stacks... next time force retal with one-stack and focus the bears down... then you would have won

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the advice. Would have helped :)

[@meowiecat_]

I saw how you measured by hexes how long can behemoths go. You know you could use Ctrl key to show which hexes can unit go? Anyway thanks for video!

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Oh. Thank You and thanks for the advice (though this is kind of embarrassing) :D

[@ImDrizzt]

i wonder, if its the right call to attack the crystal dragon or azure when only the 2 of them were alive. It's always better to trade on less dmg, less defence less hp targets first, but the azure might freeze a turn for one of the angels, hmmm, not sure not sure

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. Yea, there might very well have been a more optimal way to do this battle :)

[@nataliep6385]

When I play Castle on a random generated map - I just love when I manage to get a angel dwelling in the first 2-3 days maybe.. With 1 purchased Angel - you can beat so much in the game and make it very far

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. That is really nice pace, and agreed that it will get you far :)

[@adaada8008]

Finally those overgrown lizards (dragons) on the ground ;) Stronghold might also have hard time without hero spells

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. Agreed about the spells. Slow has been so annoying too many times with fast units :)

[@RabianskiT]

Arguably, the BEST UNIT in the game (or at least one of the best) gets a MERE 49/70 points. Something is COMPLETELY OFF with your SCORING 😅😅 The idea of testing units under different conditions is BRILLIANT though ❤ It would be nice to see a REWORKED version of this. Please watch some content from Lexiav and Alex the Magician - they are great players, who give us some amazing INSIGHT of the game.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. I agree that something might be off in the scaling but also the requirements matter. AAs performed very well in the battles but they are expensive and the construction chain is expensive. Thus good score from battles and bad from production. If they were cheaper the score would be higher. There is a balance between cost and efficiency :)

[@RabianskiT]

@@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu Nope, there isn’t. Cost is a real factor only in very SCARCE maps - and these maps are a MINORITY. Not everyone plays at 200% difficulty either. In fact, most common COMPETITIVE gamaplay is played at 160% (second hardest). Furthermore, you can get Angels FOR FREE from Griffin Conservatories. Angel build path is quite easy actually - you can get them week 1 (along with Castle’s FULL GROWTH).

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@RabianskiT Thanks for the comment. I have to disagree here. Imo the costs do matter but to a lesser extent that performance in battle. If AAs get same score than e.g. griffins or pikemen from cost or construction chain, it would be weird imo. :)

[@zergilli9719]

Arch angels can be seperated into seperate stacks that each get ressurection. This makes them pretty much the best unit in the game for the most part.

[@rolandszucs1033]

It was good! Thx! Vs stronghold i would have hit the behemoth with the 1 archangel to use its retaliation then hit with the other 39 archangel

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thank You! That way the result would have been better - agreed on that :)

[@bosspoke]

@@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu It would not have been better, it would have been much better. It's literally only the ancient behemoths that can deal with the archangels. With a triple attack like that, they would become harmless. Heck, it might be good to just have 2 big stacks of archangels and 5 stacks of 1 archangel in that fight.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@bosspoke Thanks for the comment. I pondered that kind of strat but then decided to try to avoid the behes until I have beaten most of others. But it seems that the utilized strat was not optimal :)

[@bosspoke]

@@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu If anyone can beat that Stronghold army it is Archangels :-)

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@bosspoke I think I will make a shorter video with a rematch of this and some additional viewer wishes. Let's see how it will play out :)

[@Raukodor]

Do gorgons or minotaurs Next please

[@chanceobrien]

I bet gorgons will wipe Elite.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the suggestion. I will do Gorgons next. Should be a rather clean victory vs. Elite at least :)

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@chanceobrien Agreed on that :) Thanks for the comment.

[@itatuk]

@@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu Don't forget about vamp lords. Could by after gorgons :)

[@Raukodor]

Id love see peasants. I think they could do good job with his cost

[@omerharon374]

How Resurrection Is not special abillity? What would you consider as a special abillity?

[@Alpostpone]

What it means I suppose is campaign map abilities like Rogue's scouting. Could be useful to clarify that, it seems to confuse many, myself included.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the question. The special ability refers to things that are not utilized in these battles. E.g. resurrection affected almost every battle and I guess brought several points to the Arch Angels. An example of this kind of special ability would be Rogue scouting as stated in the other response :)

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

@@Alpostpone You are right. And thanks for the heads-up. I will clarify that for the next video :)

[@RabianskiT]

I stopped watching after AA vs Stronghold fight… it was played so SO BADLY 😅 It wasn’t even that hard: 1. Wait with all stacks 2. Use 1-stack to TANK UP Behemoths’ RETALIATION 3. DESTROY Behemoths 4. Annihilate everything else 5. (In the meanwhile) Resurrect fallen AA

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. Agreed on that. There is a rematch (from last Sunday) about the battle. The score from the rematch will be taken into account for further scoreboards. :)

[@user-df5bc1uo5e]

You noob! 8/8!

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Thanks for the comment. Care to elaborate a bit? :)

[@user-df5bc1uo5e]

@@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu the fights are very badly done by the archangels. You can win from the presented options everywhere)!

[@Tibor0803]

Castle is op.

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

Indeed :) Thanks for the comment.

[@RabianskiT]

No, it’s NOT. In competitive gaming (JC style) Necropolis is no. 1, Conflux is no. 2, Dungeon is no. 3. Castle units are great, but their Heroes are MEH (except for normally UNAVAILABLE Sir Mullich). That’s why Castle ISN’T top tier.

[@johnnysmith4512]

wrong play against amry, u should keep all in one army. 40 arch when hit behemonts, they almost die...

[@qualityoldhomm-rd3yu]

True. Here is a link to a rematch of the battle where most of the Angels were kept in 1 stack. kzbin.info/www/bejne/haDWeIatmJtkndk Thanks for the comment :)