How Scandal Unravels Protestantism's "Eternal Security"

[@Deuterocomical]

The “never saved in the first place” response is so obviously in conflict with assurance of salvation. I had two Protestant friends in high school. One of them fell away and became an atheist, and I asked the other about this, to which he said “he was never saved to begin with”. Fast forward 10 years, he is now an atheist too. So if someone can believe in eternal security AND believe that he is eternally secure, yet not actually have ever been saved, then we have to conclude that we simply can’t know if we are saved until we die.

[@Ladya12345]

When I was Protestant, this concept terrified me. Was I really saved? How secure was that? Were my loved ones? It was baffling. Now I’m Catholic and I don’t have that anxiety.

[@Nidhogg13]

I've heard of this causing anxiety in protestant children as well, lying awake at night wondering if they are really "saved" or not. The Catholic way of going to confession regularly makes so much more sense.

[@Ladya12345]

@@Nidhogg13 it does! If I’m out of a state of grace, I have clear steps to return. It’s isn’t easy. It’s embarrassing at times and scary to admit things, but the priests have always been so loving and empathetic. They offer counsel to help and I leave feeling like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders!

[@iwansaputra1890]

it's like investing money to crypto. high risk high return full of worries

[@Broooooo-ww7hw]

We know because of what jesus said

[@TitusConstantine]

The Jimmy Swaggert "I have sinned" public announcement was the original KZbinr apology video

[@bobinindiana]

@@TitusConstantine Swaggert as an Assembly of God ordained preacher never believed in eternal security. He was Pentecostal. He was defrocked and expelled from the Assembly of God. Swaggert was a cousin of Jerry Lee Lewis and shared his musical talent along with his sexual sinful propensity.

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@bobinindiana This is a very interesting platform. Sinners are telling one another how sinful others are and gloating over the fact.

[@bobinindiana]

@@Nolongeraslave I am not gloating over Swaggert. He had a beautiful home with a $5,000 walnut desk (1980 price) and a beautiful wife. Jerry Lee Lewis married a 13 year old relative. Both lost their careers. Swaggert was providing food to destitute people all over so his fall hurt many people as the Assembly of God did not have the money to continue the programs. The video was wrong to bring up Swaggert in the first place because Pentecostalism does not believe in eternal security. However, the Assembly of God immediately defrocked Swaggert and expelled him from their denomination so he started his own church but was arrested for pornography in California. Catholicism should defrock sex offenders, both heterosexual and homosexual.

[@markhaunert5029]

Swaggart wasn't sorry for anything other than being caught.

[@bobinindiana]

@@markhaunert5029 Mark, maybe not as he was fired and a lot of hungry children no longer could count on his help as his donations dropped off. His cousin Jerry Lee Lewis also lost his career because he married a 13 year old first cousin once removed. Jimmy had a mansion in Louisiana and a beautiful wife. Swaggert & other Pentecostals do not believe in eternal security. Why was Swaggert even mentioned in this video-why not mention Theodore McCarrick instead?

[@felipeneves9571]

Thank God for the Sacrament of Confession.

[@yankeecitygirl]

I know. It saves us from the spectacle of pretend crying in front of an audience.

[@robertjanis9142]

There is no "Sacrament of Confession" as viewed in Catholicism. It is a manmade doctrine of control by the so called church of Rome.

[@ironymatt]

​@@yankeecitygirlamong other things :-)

[@domanicvaldez]

Amen.

[@ReadDaGospel]

Sounds like eternal security to me. Thank God Jesus is faithful

[@hectormartinez-montcada5099]

The thing I love about being a Catholic is the sacrament of Confession. I've found it evolving from "I did this wrong" to "I confess these specific sins, I beg for my Lord's forgiveness, and I ask for guidance in an increase in these virtues." Basically, each confession becomes more and more of a challenging examination of conscience. And how wonderful that we have the most loving and perfect Heavenly Father, who rejoices at the idea of His children growing up spiritually.

[@christianstephens7213]

Since I became Catholic I find im actually not trying to earn my salvation , I live every day in peace knowing I do have a relationship with God and if sin mortally I go to confession ASAP

[@WilliamStrain-th4xw]

What if you die otw there?

[@enderwiggen3638]

@@WilliamStrain-th4xwGod knows the heart of the sinner and if they are repentant. So if you die on the way he knows what you intended to do.

[@octuple505]

​@WilliamStrain-th4xw what if you do? I'll follow the teachings of the Apostles and the Word. And leave the judgements to God.

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@christianstephens7213 So you believe in eternal security? Why do you believe you have peace?

[@ElloSheerio]

That's what Jesus is for, not your confessional box. You're confessing to a man and not the Christ.

[@Lucas-zu2es]

as a prot now looking into catholicism, this really confused me when trying to find out what is sin in a protestant view a few years ago. Most of the stuff u said really hit home about how other prots act like it isn’t works based when it sort of is. A lot of it started my scrupulosity and anxiety. Thank you for this and pray for me as i look into which church is right and true

[@mycattitude]

Every branch of Christianity can get into its own tailspin of scrupulousity. I find the Catholics and esp. Orthodox are the most prone to it. The sacramental treadmill is the chief reason for this. Another is a marked lack of assurance of salvation. So severe at times, that most Catholics count is a sin just to be assured that they are going to heaven. I can't imagine living that way as a Christian. It's not that I believe in blanket OSAS. We can fall away, and we can become reprobate. It's a complicated doctrine. I won't try and tell you which route to take. I truly believe that some Christians have their best and closest walk w/ God when they become Catholics. I've seen many amazing testimonies of this. Just as often though, a person is raised Catholic and it does nothing for them. They don't truly become born again, and really find joy and deep closeness w/ God, until they leave that and go to a bible based church. Not saying Catholics aren't bible based, just looking for language. They also baffled me for years when I reached for my bible to back what God requires of us and call us to be, and they would reach for a Catechism instead. Just beware, if you do decide to convert to Catholicism, and you have an anxiety addled past w/ scrupulousity, that I've seen it far more on the Catholic side. Priests still flog and deprive themselves, on purpose due to gross misinterpretation of scriptures. Laity can get it loops of living in terror over whether their sin is venial or mortal. They can live in fear that they are hellbound if they don't get to that confession booth. Most have no assurance of salvation and belief it's a sin to just take God at his word that He and He alone can hold them steadfast, if only they just trust. It's not that I haven't seen protestant type scrupulousity too. This is uusally more in the form of legalism. But generally it is based on someone being very prone to an anxiety disorder, or type of OCD, not usually an issue w/ the doctrines they are taught. Be blessed, and may God lead you to the church home where you are meant to be. Until we meet in the air...

[@lukebrasting5108]

If you wnat to know what a true and healthy Christian spirituality looks like, check out a book called Introduction to the Spiritual Life by Brant Pitre. Compare it to what you have learned so far as a Protestant, and the truth will become pretty clear to you.

[@billlee2194]

Read the Apostolic writings including the Didache, Ignatius of Antioch, 1 Clement, Justin Martyr & Irenaus of Lyon. When you read them, take note of the Catholic beliefs and teachings especially the real presence of Christ in theEucharist, baptismal regeneration, the 3-tier hierarchy of bishop, priest and deacons and the primacy of the church in Rome that all other churches must agree with. God bless.

[@luboshcamber1992]

@Lucas-zu2es Did you also look into Roman Catholic priesthood pedophiles and how this unholy "church" have been covering it up? Do it before the will deceive you. Since you don't know Christ, start with that.

[@MrMannemanu]

@@billlee2194This is good advice. Read the early church fathers and realize what is the true church.

[@MaranglikPeterTo-Rot]

Thank you brother Trent Horn and all the awesome souls behind this youtube channel for yet another great content. God bless you and your ministry.

[@mikethemonsta15]

Thank you Trent for the work you do, would you consider doing a video on the importance of prayer and silence? How an excellent prayer life leads to good apologetics?

[@BastianHelena]

I think it definitely has to do with the “genre” of Protestant you are. I grew up non-de Protestant, which are the churches with the smoke machines, lights, concert-like experience “worship service”, and often way too hip and young of pastors on stage saying unvetted things. If you were to ask THEM what they believed about external salvation, I legitimately do not think they’d have any opinion in it because their theology is not deep enough to have thought about this question. If you were to ask someone with some type of liturgical tradition and standards for preaching, they most likely would. I was actually talking to my husband about this yesterday.

[@selderane]

Exactly. Many, many Protestants reject eternal security. But Trent wouldn't get his clickbait by being fair...

[@BastianHelena]

@@selderane lol don’t get it twisted. I am stating that it is often not possible to engage with most Protestants about these questions, as most Protestants do not have any deep theology. Trent is definitely being more charitable than I am, as someone who came from that world and admittedly knew nothing and had no concept of any of these top of discussion because I spent the first twenty years of my Christian pursuit listening to overhyped pastors in way too tight and expensive jeans. Trent is obviously focusing on the belief structure of the person in the thumbnail, who I am assuming has some theological basis for what he believed, and, as I took it, commenting on the similar beliefs Protestants have with us Catholics, often unbeknown to them.

[@G1stGBless]

You must be kidding if you think most Catholics have any clue about the Bible and deep theology. As bad as most Protestants are, the average Catholic I see at wedding receptions or other public events, look live and speak no differently than a gravely sinning lost person.

[@-R-H-]

An issue with Horn's argument is that he uses examples from Pentecostal leadership scandal to criticize Calvinism theology. He conflates and fails to properly engage with the actual beliefs he's attempting to critique.

[@RachelNichols-writer]

Marty Sampson wrote a lot of "praise songs" for Hillsong but lacked even rudimentary knowledge of theology. Biblically illiterate.

[@foggy71]

This topic is simple. Don't sin. Have you sinned? Repent. Believe and obey God, and you will be saved. To questions like "but if I'm continuing and I'm sorry about it what do I do then, am I going to heaven?" the answer is the same. These are inconsequential questions. Repent, obey God.

[@silveriorebelo2920]

the correct lesson is that a Christian must no be heretical, to have a false believe, by refusing catholic teaching

[@arthurgrey8967]

Is that all Christ asked of you? Not just to sin? Every time He described the Judgement it seems to me that He required more. Not just to avoid sin, but to actively love ones neighbors and God. He not only asked for, but said we will be judged by our charity to others. The servant who had his debt forgiven by his lord but refused to show the same mercy to one who owed him far less, had the forgiveness of his debt revoked. Christ's own example of love for others is what we are called to follow. Not sinning is the bare minimum of what is expected of us.

[@nilojose7976]

​@@silveriorebelo2920 almost sounds like a cult, when you say it like that, doesn't it?

[@Elon_Tusks]

@@nilojose7976fr

[@uncatila]

Swaggered had a cousin who sang Jony be good Great balls of fire came flashing down wherever Jony stood Preaching was his passion and love was his own flame Jony was a gambling man That time was bound to tame

[@hgbitner8486]

Disqualification from ministry =\= “losing” salvation

[@RhenishHelm]

This is very precipitous timing. Yesterday morning, I sat through a sermon, at the Calvinist church to which I presently belong, that centered on the doctrine of Assurance. The preacher entirely misrepresented the Catholic position in the exact caricature which you debunk in your video. Thankfully, I attended a lovely mass in the afternoon, which washed that bad taste out of my mouth. Thank you for all your work, Trent.

[@chevyfinn]

As a Lutheran, I am really grateful for confession! I don't hold the calvinist or Arminian view of salvation.

[@andyreginald9272]

Another Lutheran here! I’m glad our tradition has the best aspects of both Rome and Protestantism, being evangelical catholic.

[@aprendiz4]

By their fruits ye shall know them. Get to know Luther's fruits please

[@ElishaD-rb8pv]

@@aprendiz4 that is not necessary if you know church history and the Bible. The authority to forgive sins was conferred by Jesus onto the twelve apostles only. Luther, unlike all christians before him, both in the East and the West and against the teachings of the Church Fathers, chose at some point to do away with apostolic succession, which is the only route through which the authority to forgive sins, celebrate the Eucharist etc is transmitted by the Holy Spirit. Therefore, Lutherans and others can go to confession as much as they like but their sins aren't remitted because of the lack of apostolic authority in their ministers. Same applies to their Eucharist which remains bread and wine.

[@aprendiz4]

@@ElishaD-rb8pv You think you will get to many people with such walls of text? I'm pragmatically more effective than you with what I said. Learn to be strategic.

[@ElishaD-rb8pv]

@@aprendiz4 probably not and that's not my concern, only Jesus Christ can "get to people"

[@maryjordan4129]

Thank you Lord for the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Sacred Heart of Jesus I put my trust in Thee.✝️❤️

[@SipswithSerra]

Seeing all these TV pastors makes me feel like I'm at my grandparents house

[@shirkam3657]

Ayo it's you!

[@SDRBass]

I’ll correct you on one point. Ministry specifically requires a higher standard of character. Above reproach. While Lawson may be a genuine Christian, he’s disqualified from being a pastor specifically.

[@cesaraugustoramirezzamora6967]

¿Y es salvo sí o no?

[@elreyhats]

Is he saved?

[@SDRBass]

@@elreyhats I don’t know the man personally so I wouldn’t begin to speculate on that.

[@mycattitude]

You are exactly right. The 1 Timothy scriptures lay out that they have to be faithful, the husband of one wife, take care of and be a firm head of their family and w/out scandal. He is disqualified. Jimmy Swaggart should not have been reinstated. It happens on the Catholic side too, w/ all the priest scandals, sent away to another parish, where the "issues" continued. Not trying to throw shade on a sensitive topic, that the world gleefully never lets you Catholics forget about. Just drawing fair parallels. Priests and pastors do indeed have to be held to a higher standard. And oh, does the bible go on for paragraphs in the OT about evil shepherds who lead their sheep to slaughter, or don't feed their flock properly. The NT has Jesus himself saying the most dire of warnings about the milestone around the neck and cast into the sea is a better end than what awaits those that harm his little ones.

[@elreyhats]

@@SDRBass so, can you know 100% that you are saved and that you will be saved in the future.

[@NancyGuerrero-ws3hl]

Hi 👋🏼 fellow ex catholic (as a young girl) here turned baptist. Just wanted to say hi and I appreciate your videos to try to understand my fellow Catholics and their faith better.

[@lmao9167]

Heretic

[@HoradrimBR]

This doesn't make much sense. You claim do be "ex-Catholic" and them says that want to understand Catholic faith better. Thinking better, it makes total sense...

[@highking43]

Know that your always welcome back in the Catholic Church and that we miss you! God bless and continue your journey of seeking understanding and God's light!

[@USDebtCrisis]

Come back home

[@NancyGuerrero-ws3hl]

@@HoradrimBR The Catholic Churches and catholic family I went to rarely showed the fruit of the spirit, practiced work based religion instead of salvation by faith, the gospel was never explained well enough in my18 years. this is why I went to a church that would give the ABC'S of christianity. God also found me and I had friends praying of me. you can label that however you like. :)

[@TheThreatenedSwan]

This is one of the doctrines I've never seen how you could accept. In the Bible it's just so obvious you can lose your salvation

[@misterkittyandfriends1441]

It's pretty easy if you ignore everyone in the Bible except selected portions of Paul.

[@TheThreatenedSwan]

@@misterkittyandfriends1441 Yep, it's ludicrous that they make Paul seem to contradict the gospels.

[@TeddyMattingly]

You cannot lose something you did not earn. Eternal life is a present possession, once you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ genuinely in the heart, and repent and trust in him, that is when you are Born again and saved, and in that very moment you receive eternal life. He gives a new heart with new desires. Trust him, his salvation is sure. Jesus affirms by parable, that those who fall away, or turn to things like money or sin never had it in the first place because in their heart they never truly received the Gospel.

[@TheThreatenedSwan]

@@TeddyMattingly You can lose things you didn't earn. How do you get around the Bible saying you can be a part of the true vine and be cut off or the parable of the unforgiving servant?

[@TheCriticalChroniclerCreed]

Yes

[@VTdarkangel]

This is interesting for me. I'm a Baptist who came Christ and grew up under a Free Will Baptist pastor. I have been accused of being Catholic in my view of God's grace and salvation by some other Baptists. I never understood why until this video. There's a lot of overlap between the Catholic perspective and mine on this subject.

[@mycattitude]

That's because if we exhibit grace to our Catholic brethren (and they to us), there is tons of overlap in our belief. The parallels are endless. We just have to understand that there's a language barrier. When we genuinely look at what the other side believes and how they say it, they are so often believing and living out the same thing. Catholics are more rigid and formulaic about it. They have a stringent sacramental system to their walk w/ God. We go by scripture, but I see many parallels. We get at the worst loggerheads and fail to recognize these similarities, just couched in different language, and a different order of operations, mainly because of pride in our tribalism. The bible warns us about doing this, yet we ignore the warnings. When the NT admonishes us to respect and love the other members of the body of Christ and not to look down on what we deem as the less comely parts there's very good reason for that. We are told that what we deem as the less comely parts of the body are as essential, even more needful, even if they don't seem as such. Catholics don't heed those scriptures, at all. No emphasis on it whatsoever. I've seen it taught extensively in good protestant churches. Though the weakness w/ protestants on those crucial scriptures, is too many would like to believe it applies to the members in their church, and not the WHOLE BODY, worldwide, comprising all the branches. If we could only take these crucial and comprehensive scriptures to heart, it would stanch so much prideful infighting, and outfighting and rivalry. I guess that's why the devil puts successful blinders on us about it. Divide and conquer is perhaps his number one weapon against us.

[@VTdarkangel]

@@mycattitude that is absolutely true. I have never seen Catholics as anything other than my Christian brethren. I have my disagreements with them, but I've always viewed those as something we could ask God about once we are all in heaven.

[@billlee2194]

Very well stated. The only part that seemed out of place was 'Catholics don't heed those scriptures, at all. No emphasis on it whatsoever.' I've been Catholic over 5 years and I find myself heeding Scripture like I never bothered to do as a Baptist or non-denom. That's my personal experience. Other than that, a great post. Thanks.

[@VTdarkangel]

@billlee2194 i didn't read that part as all Catholics. I can't speak for mycattitude, but I have a feeling that statement was accidentally over-broad due to a typing mistake. I just noticed one on my original post. In any case, the problem that mycattitude was talking about is something I've seen in all denominations I've interacted with.

[@swimmerfish34]

As a Calvinist, this would be my response, First, I think Trent is right in noting that the actual, rubber hits the road differences are greatly exaggerated. But to the point, the doctrine of perseverance of the saints (which I believe is a more accurate name for the doctrine) needs to be seen in the context of the Calvinist view of the doctrine of election. Our understanding of the New Testament's teaching on this is that God has elected those who would be his from all eternity. Therefore, all those whom God has elected will come to him and none of them will be lost, as Jesus says in John. That is the teaching. Those whom the father elected make it to heaven, and not one of them is lost. Why I have a problem with phrasing it as "eternal security" as it is often phrased, is because of the very problem that Trent points out here. Just as it would be inappropriate to put off coming to Christ because you're not sure if you are elected or not, it is inappropriate to take this doctrine practically for assurance of salvation. In a sense, it's using the logic backwards. All those whom the father elects will go to heaven, it is true. But unless I have good evidence to show that I am among the elect, I can have no assurance of salvation. What is that evidence? The fruit of repentance leading to a growing sanctification in Christ. The problem I have with Trent is a similar problem I have with popular Calvinism, which is unrealistic epistemology. Both seem to have a very black and white epistemology, as if you either know, 100% sure that you were going to heaven or you don't know at all. This just isn't how knowing something works. Do I know 100% certainty that I am elect? Well, today I'm walking with the Lord. I am United to his church. I am growing in Grace. I eat of his table. I am repenting of sin daily. I am engaging in true, obedient worship to him to the best of my ability. So I have no reason to doubt that I am among the elect. Perseverance of the saints is not a personal proof that you are going to heaven, it is The logical and biblical conclusion of the fact that God knows those who are his and has chosen them before the foundation of the Earth. To be justified means to have true faith, and that faith alone saves. That faith is true, living trust in the love of God through Jesus Christ. If I trust him, I will not sin. When I sin, I prove a lapse in faith. When I sin in a grievous way, this suggests that this was as not merely a slip up in faith, but paradigmatic of an ongoing lack of faith. Therefore, someone who has fallen into grave sin may have their assurance questioned, not because our justification is based on works, but because of the apparent evidence of consistently lacking faith. Faith that saves the elect is a faith that endures, and that is what perseverance of the saints means. The main way I would criticize Roman Catholicism for lacking the ability to give meaningful assurance would be in other areas. During the Reformation, people who were living in open sin were being given indulgences approved by papal authority and were told that they were for sure, 100% going to heaven. How can I trust a magisterium that, for a good period of time and in a widespread manner with the authority that Christ gave to Peter, told people living in open, mortal sin that they were going to heaven? How can I trust that same magisterium when they tell me that I am going to heaven? I think this is a much bigger problem that is much harder to get around.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

Denominations are all of the devil. From Catholicism to all her illegitimate children, there is none righteous. No, not one. One "tell" to show how completely bankrupt Catholicism is, is to ask a Catholic, "Are you saved?" If you get more than a blank deer-in-the-headlights stare back at you, you'll get a lot of hedging that includes, but is not limited to, a stay in Purgatory. Purgatory is where you sweat off your sins so that God will accept you. A Catholic who finds fault with OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved) has a similar and opposite beam in his own eye. There is no confidence in Catholicism, as well there should NOT be.

[@justice8718]

Be warned there is a massive difference between relationship and religion.

[@cherubin7th]

First it doesn't matter if you know or not. The choice by God has already happened so nothing you do will change the outcome in your logic. Second, indulgence never gave you heaven only shortened the time in purgatory. The Church never claimed that. And the teaching on indulgence is still the same today.

[@davido3026]

That's your opinion and Jesus does not care about it, neither do we Christians since 33AD

[@trosenthal3711]

The whole last point you made about indulgences is full of error and shows that you severely misunderstand both what an indulgence is and what the Magisterium is. The Church never taught that an indulgence forgives sins. Period. Doesn't matter if some priests like Tetzel claimed that, it wasn't even close to being widely claimed, especially not with any magisterial weight. Also, when you say the indulgences were approved by papal authority, I think you are making it sound like the Pope taught that they forgive sins, which is absolutely wrong.

[@sidwhiting665]

This video does not properly understand salvation. Neither do a lot of Protestants. It comes down to this: People want to know "who's in and who's out?" That's where you get garbage doctrines like Eternal Security. We want to look at the outside of a person and say, "Yep, he's in or he's out." It doesn't work that way. Not even with ourselves. Trust in Christ's atoning sacrifice alone is the only thing that determines salvation. If you trust in Christ, you are saved. If you don't, you aren't. The problem lies with people who think they or someone else trusts in Christ. The person in question may go to church, sing worship songs, take communion, say prayers, give lots of money, and even pastor churches, but they have deceived themselves. That's where a lot of these "deconstruction" testimonies come from: people who bought into the pomp and show of being Christian, but who never had a relationship with Christ. It must be a terrible thing to have it constantly on your conscience that if you screw up and commit a grave sin in a moment of weakness and then die the next moment that you're done for all eternity. Instead of that terror, I invite you to lean on Christ Jesus, knowing that the only actual grave sin is the one the Bible tells us: Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (i.e. denying his work steadfastly). The rest of this "mortal" and "venial" sin is stuff the Catholic clergy invented and has no scriptural basis whatsoever. Reject the doctrines of men; cling to the doctrines of Scripture. And yes, of course we will always strive to avoid all sins (not just "grave" ones), but that doesn't mean if you mess up and the world ends while you're in the middle of something sinful that you're condemned for bad timing. Come, taste and see that the Lord is good! His yolk is easy and his burden is light! Trust in him, not yourself. You are justified freely by his grace, though faith, and this not of yourselves. It is God's gift so that no one can boast. Now go and leave your life of sinning. And if you fail, return to his throne of grace comforted that even your "biggest" sins were nailed to the cross. As St Paul writes, do not let this grace become an excuse to go on sinning and so "cheapen" God's grace. Let the transformation of your heart by the power of the Holy Spirit lead you to struggle against and overcome sin.

[@TheDesertRat31]

The "never saved in the first place" is clearly incorrect. Its mentioned multiple times in the Bible about the freedom to turn away from God. The "never saved in the first place" explanation seem like just an attempt to reconcile a protestant theological conflict. We choose to accept Christ and follow him, but we have to constantly work to avoid sin due to our fallen nature, but also because the Devil is always trying to turn us away from God.

[@bobblacka918]

It's just a Band-Aid to make Protestant theology work. But people are no longer buying it.

[@evangelismAI]

Jesus was very clear, take up your cross daily, die to your sins, follow me. I can’t stand this Protestant doctrine and I was raised in a Protestant denomination. When person who is a believer sins, the Holy Spirit departs and you must reconcile yourself with repentance which is a mind change and confessing your sins. This OSAS is a lack of grasping the full gospel because there are way too many verses to reconcile. Also if you look in the Greek in belief and faith it tells you all you need to know. We are in a relationship with Christ, we must have moral conviction. Just as you must have convictions and be good to your wife or husband you must do the same in your relationship with god. If you mess up you apologize, repent, and learn from your mistakes and confess. It isn’t hard to understand. I completely agree with you. This is a doctrinal hop scotch they try to play.

[@justice8718]

@@evangelismAI No. That’s not how this works. The Holy Spirit doesn’t just suddenly vanish right after a sin. It’s much more dedicatedly wicked than that. There are many times I have been in sin, yet still have the spirit of grace to speak in wisdom and correction. To cut at vanity and beg for my destruction so no crimes from me will cut at him. In reality, rebellion against God doesn’t take much to commit because of what you are. By what you are, he has to protect you and keep you strong in his spirit, or else, the Devil will consume you whole, as he has done to Samson. He has other methods to deal with you before he considers departing from you. And they will either be minor (shame) (disgust) (hatred) or absolutely horrific as King David’s punishments. You need to look into the sons of god that came before Jesus’ arrival on the earth. Otherwise, you will speak a blind doctrine, while earnest and cautious, that is ultimately in error and incomplete with the understandings of God’s wrath. In fact, the largest issues that we have in the church is simply the factor of us not having God’s views as our own. Something that requires his literal spirit to do. If a sin does what you say, then the Church will logically be unable to inherit the hatred of God for said sin. We will have to be blinded, enslaved, and humiliated by the wicked that gives us the pleasure of the sin they’ve worshipped to even grasp we must hate them and everything they gain and create from that sin. And Samson is a last-resort kind of thing.

[@evangelismAI]

@@justice8718 nope you are applying grace and the Holy Spirit (the indwelling or baptism of the spirit) as the same thing, which the are not. The spirit doesn’t dwell in an unclean vessel. Also, the word used to the “spirit coming upon” David, literally meaning he was clothed externally, is very different than the new testaments baptism which means to furnish internally, leave no room for anything else or being completely filed up like a pitcher or a bucket. This isn’t a blind doctrine but it is the doctrine that is literally taught in the entire New Testament that the Spirit and the flesh are contrary to one another, they do not mix like oil and water and they do not exist in the same space together. You are either born of the spirit of god, or you are not. If you do sin, you must repent, confess and reconcile yourself back to him so the Holy Ghost can enter you again and clean you, he will sweep his temple clean. It is also why Jesus told his people he set free to go and sin no more, lest something else even worse happen to them. Second “in church” the church is not a building. It is not an assembly of people. The church is where the spirit dwells, in his believers. As Jesus stated he would build a temple not made with human hands. His temple is our body, how ought we to keep it. The spirit does depart from you when you are in sin. Because it can’t exist there. It is the very same reason anything that was unclean that was presented before the ark of the covenant , of god in the Old Testament, either died, was plagued or consumed in fire, if it was unholy. I agree with you that god does have means of dealing with you, but the spirit leaving is one of those means. If you sin the spirit of peace leaves, and all the fruits of the spirit leave which is why you feel like road kill, however he is faithful to forgive you if you repent and you can turn around your mind and reconcile your self back to him.

[@justice8718]

@@evangelismAI There is no grace without the Holy Spirit. That’s delusional. That makes grace an utterly meaningless word rather than the mighty presence of God. If he isn’t there, how can he give you grace?

[@BG2024-truth]

I bet David and Salomon would be grateful for no social media in their times 😂

[@FormedemonCoeur]

But their sins are recorded forever. David’s sins are some of the most famous of all time. Viral before it was a thing. 😂

[@monkeyDaltuve]

I’m Protestant. The fact that people willingly and whole heartedly walk away from god proves that osas is false.. how could one logically know that oneself will not walk away in the future? No one knows the future. If your current salvation depends on your future salvation, it’s a circle argument and the most logical response is that our salvation depends on our status now and that we can walk away from faith at any time.

[@InvestmentJoy]

Someone got a raise and put that in into great graphics!

[@BreenyLee]

In 2 Peter 1:1-10 These were Peters departing words, at the end of it all, you can be sure of your salvation as long as you are doing these things. So, be diligent! You will know that you are the called and the elect and be very sure! If you give all diligence to add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.” ‭‭II Peter‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬-‭7‬ ‭(Faith + Fruit) Peter said, if these things are yours in abundance, You will NEVER stumble and you can walk confidently into His everlasting Kingdom, into eternity. II Peter 1:11 It is a beautiful promise to those who are His! The nature and character of Christ living in us IS what makes us to know Christ. You are not a Christian if you do not bear the nature of Christ. Gods Word is truly beautiful, it’s all in there! Study to show that you are the approved of God! Shalom 🙏🏾🤍

[@MrMorgan316]

I'm a young (20) youth leader at my church. I've been teaching that Eternal Security is unbiblical. And recently, my Pastor himself began teaching that to the woe and anger of the congregation, I'm glad he's teaching what's right. Btw I mean a small part of the congregation, most agreed. I'm gonna try to teach on Eucharist, as I'm coming around to that, I'm also seriously contemplating becoming Catholic or Orthodox because Early Church Father's all had what is seen as Catholic or Orthodox beliefs.

[@MildTabasco]

God Bless you. May our Heavenly Father guide us all.

[@MrMorgan316]

@@MildTabasco God bless you my Brother in Christ

[@kevinmath007]

This is probably Trent's best video yet. The analysis is top notch

[@Digganob590]

God put us into a space-time continuum, and by golly, we ought to act like it. If we sin, we repent. We don't act like we've already repented, and have been forgiven, because we haven't. We are in a living relationship, with a living God. We have not signed a contract, we are married to the bridegroom of Christ, and infidelity must be answered to with repentance, and repaired with penance.

[@justice8718]

Repenting means to turn to God. It’s an act of correction. Looking at God right before the correction.

[@richardhager9391]

What is a covenant?

[@theKpen]

This video does not refute eternal security as a doctrine, but it illuminates serious deficiency in it's application amongst evangelicals. My growing understanding and pastoral application of confession in my own life and the lives of those I minister to has had some tell me I am starting to sound Catholic. I take that as a compliment because it is an area evangelicalism is usually anemic in. Those comments remind me that I have grown in an important area of my Christian life and ministry As for the doctrine, eternal security as a doctrine speaks more of the power of God to draw us, remind us, and convict us - his ability to heal and open spiritually blind eyes so that we see in truth and are thus compelled to follow. And God has that power, the Spirit has that power. Those who close their eyes to God willingly do so out of spiritual blindness. None can resist him if they have seen him in truth. None can resist the son if they have seen him through the eyes of the Father and the Spirit. Tares aren't wheat gone bad. They're of a different kind altogether.

[@lispan3768]

I keep in mind the words of Jesus " When I return will there be anyone with faith left?" It spurs me on to hold on tight.

[@-R-H-]

Trent, you ask: "If we are all sinners then why can't Lawson remain a pastor?" The answer is simple: Because God says a pastor must be above reproach. It's not hard. In reality, most Protestant denominations that hold to eternal security would maintain that a fallen pastor is still saved, even if they're no longer qualified for leadership. Basically, you conflate the stricter standards for church leaders with the requirements for salvation. Horn, we know you know this and we know you grasp the finer details of logic and argumentation. So why are you ignoring the distinction between being a believer and being qualified for church leadership? Your argument suggests that if a person is disqualified from leadership, they must not be saved. This doesn't follow logically and isn't consistent with the Protestant view you're critiquing. So why are you doing this? By conflating these concepts, you're creating a strawman version of the Protestant position that's easy for you to attack from your Roman Catholic perspective but doesn't accurately represent the actual belief which is hard to attack from a biblically grounded perspective. Protestant assurance is not based on subjective feelings or a flawless track record. It is rooted in the objective work of Christ on the cross and the promises of God's Word. While self-examination and the fruit of the Spirit are indicators of genuine faith, they are not the basis for our assurance. We find confidence in our salvation by faith in God's faithfulness, not our own faithfulness, and the finished work of Christ. To address the elephant, you seriously use Pentecostal examples of leadership scandal to criticize Calvinism! You know exactly what false equivalence is and I'm guessing you hope your audience doesn't know the huge differences in these soteriologies.

[@jmferris542]

Thanks for this very helpful clarification.

[@johndeighan2495]

We all know Protestant eternal security is "based on" Christ's work on the cross and the promises of God's Word. And yet, some people fall away. Rather than simply admit, "Yes, people can fall away", Calvinists go into this unnecessary and convoluted thought process of "they were never really saved to begin with" just so they can preserve their doctrine. And what do they achieve by this circuitous reasoning? Nothing. The Calvinist is no more secure than he would be if he just admitted he could fall away. After all, he can't look into the future. He, too, could end up among those who think they've been saved but then abandon the faith, proving they never really were. And so he can never quite shake off the question "Am I truly saved?"

[@Vaughndaleoulaw]

Sin is a reproach to any people. Proverbs 14:24. Trent's argument stands because any pastor who commits ANY public sin is not "above reproach." Yet, some are removed (Lawson) and some are not (Chandler). This "higher standard" explanation does not actually explain anything. It is a tacit admission that there are great and minor sins.

[@-R-H-]

@@johndeighan2495 By [Calvinists go into this unnecessary and convoluted thought process of "they were never really saved to begin with"] to me reads as the Bible goes into this unnecessary and convoluted thought process of … "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." - 1 John 2:19? I'm not trying to strawman you, but the text plainly states that those who depart from the faith demonstrate by their departure that they were never truly part of the body of Christ. He doesn't say "they were of us but then left" - he explicitly states "they were not of us." More so, "if they had been of us, they would have continued with us." true believers continue/persevere.

[@-R-H-]

​@@Vaughndaleoulaw You seem to be defining "above reproach" as meaning sinless or at least through the perspective of great and minor sins. That is not how "above reproach" is understood in Protestant theology. Rather "not open to justified criticism". Is there an inconsistency in how different cases (Lawson vs. Chandler) are treated? Perhaps, but that's a criticism of church practice, not the underlying theology. Horn's argument still suffers from the conflation I pointed out, even if there are valid criticisms of how Protestant churches handle pastoral misconduct.

[@PeterBarrett-dm1hi]

Honestly, Trent may be the best catholic commentator.

[@pstrzel]

Joe Heschmeyer is great too; very thorough in his explanations and analyses.

[@annakimborahpa]

In any event, he's reached the heights of the Matterhorn.

[@bobinindiana]

@@PeterBarrett-dm1hi Why does he constantly discuss Protestants, usually inaccurately?

[@JW-sg7tt]

Jimmy Akin is good too

[@ironymatt]

@@bobinindiana the confusion and division caused by 5 centuries of protestantism is a massive problem in Christianity. Good on Trent for his efforts.

[@Fr33zy159]

By God's grace I was saved yesterday, I'm being saved today, and by His grace, may I be saved tomorrow!

[@Justas399]

not according to catholicism you're not.

[@godisgood1737]

@@Justas399that is exactly what Catholics believe. We don’t believe in once saved always saved.

[@robertjanis9142]

@@godisgood1737 No you believe in counting beads, praying repititious chants and praying to dead saints and Mary (all condemned in the Bible btw) to earn your way out of purgatory (also praying for the dead) where YOU have to pay for YOUR own sin burden. Read your Bible, the Truth will set you free!

[@godisgood1737]

@@robertjanis9142 did your pastor tell you that or did you actually read the Bible and study the writings of the church fathers?

[@robertjanis9142]

@@godisgood1737 No I read the writings of the Apostles and of a closed cannon. I don't do tradition from "church fathers".

[@mikeyangel1067]

Awesome video and timely. This concept of “eternal security” must be addressed to promote more Christian dialogue: What to do to restore friendship with God and neighbor (church). Thanks Trent, I do plan to contribute my part for your studio upgrade and hope to visit your studio one day. Thanks and thanks for enduring well during Deuterocomic wacky interview. God bless ya..

[@silveriorebelo2920]

there is no possible dialogue with sectarian people as Calvinist repeatedly demonstrate to be - but we can help people that have questions and need better understanding

[@Serquss]

As a practicing Catholic, I don't have 'assurance' of salvation, I have trust in Christ's mercy.

[@TruthHasSpoken]

You do have assurance, just not infallible certitude.

[@billlee2194]

As a Catholic still trying to better understand justification and good works, I was struck by Trent's comment that, after initial salvation, the only good work we need to do to be saved is avoid or confess grave sin. I had not heard it put that way before. I think of the judgement verses that all state we will be judged by our words and works even into eternal life. I do understand that we must avoid or confess grave sin but the judgement verses all seem to involve good works toward others done in love. I guess my point is that, beyond needing to avoid or confess grave sin, Scripture appears to also command is to be about the business of good works which will be rewarded with eternal life. I welcome comments.

[@CosmicSeptic1]

Protestant (non-OSAS) here. It's interesting that so many OSAS/PotS believers will use Hebrews 12:4-13 to show that our adoption and sonship is an irrevocable status we possess. If they would just read a few verses down (vs. 14-17) they would see that the author gives an example of a son (Esau) who possessed an inheritance (his birthright - a metaphor for our eternal life), but sold it (a metaphor for apostasy) and was later rejected (a metaphor for rejection at the final judgment). To ignore the context and surrounding verses seems very out of keeping with a tradition claiming strong adherence to sound hermeneutics and sola scriptura. But at that point, they've already wiggled their way out of 4-5 other warnings in the book of Hebrews, so why stop now, am I right?

[@miracles_metanoia]

Good point

[@jonathangermain4143]

This video really convicted me to repent for a number of sins in my own life. Thank you Trent for always being committed to sharing the truth.

[@catholicfemininity2126]

That is incredibly disturbing that the protestants say that a former Christian was never saved in the first place... really disturbing ...and can make one fall into nihilism.

[@hexahexametermeter]

How do you know what their eternal destiny is, is what I want to know.

[@justice8718]

God is a very nihilistic person. And so is Solomon.

[@theKpen]

Are tares just wheat done bad? Or were they of a different sort from the beginning?

[@TruthHasSpoken]

"incredibly disturbing that the protestants say that a former Christian was never saved in the first place" Yes, some protestants fall victim to the man-made doctrine of once saved, always saved, so they have to create another false teaching to work around the first false teaching. And this gives no one believing in OSAS that infallible certitude that they pretend to have. - a believer can THINK that they are saved - all who know the same believe THINK too that they are saved. - but the believe can fall away - and everyone then changes how they THINK and say he was never saved to begin with. YUCK! What a doctrinal mess.

[@vernon29302930]

@@TruthHasSpokenthat is super rich coming from a Catholic that once saved always saved is man made 😂. Thanks for the laugh. You heretics literally believe that not all of God’s words are contained in scripture and have “added” on with traditions for centuries, you know, man made… ridiculous 😂

[@katiedid8192]

Thank you, Trent. So thankful to God for blessing me and my parents with the grace of being raised in the Catholic faith.

[@Caswagna93]

These mega churches are so insincere and purely performative

[@matthewashman1406]

That's a judgement

[@Caswagna93]

@@matthewashman1406 it’s a statement of fact

[@Mrs_Homemaker]

​@@matthewashman1406 those with a properly formed mind can, in fact, judge if something is sinful, virtuous, performative, sincere, etc. If we were unable to judge situations then we would be "walking blind" in the moral life.

[@matthewashman1406]

@@Caswagna93 except when it's not. It's like white people are racists,yes except when they are not. Or all men are wife beaters,some are except when they're not

[@matthewashman1406]

@@Mrs_Homemaker that is not my meaning of judgement.

[@longway2pro]

As a protestant raised in a Calvinist household, this was a very unexpected, but encouraging video to randomly click on. I've always thought that the once saved, always saved mantra was potentially worrying, but one way that it played out in my life was that it did make me fear my eternal status in an unhelpful way - yes, it is good to fear the One who can throw both body and soul into hell, but for me, I would, on more than one occasion wonder to myself "what if I've never been saved, because at some point down the road, I deconstruct and walk away?" I think that it is rather better to focus on living out God's will today, and rest in my present salvation knowing that, although my human nature is capable of rejecting grace, I will not reject that grace today. God bless!

[@ethanmiller5487]

The Parable of the Prodigal has TWO sons in the story. The son that didn't wish his fathers death is still outside the party after having been rebuked by his father, at the end. Why include this son if it wasn't important or note worthy?

[@jeremysmith7176]

Thats is a great point. I would say the second son is the entire point of the parable in the entire passage. Before the series of parables, it begins that the Pharisees were mocking Jesus. We're for eating with tax collectors and sinners. "Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. And the Pharisees and the scribes murmured, saying, 'This man receives sinners and eats with them.'" - Luke 15:1-2. By rejecting the return of their prodigal and sinful neighbors who were returning to God, the elder son and the Pharisees are cutting themselves off from the Kingdom.

[@ironymatt]

The second son is of course also very important, but Trent wasn't doing a full discourse on every aspect of the parable here, only the part that most directly pertained to the false protestant doctrine of eternal security.

[@ethanmiller5487]

@ironymatt You are correct he wasn't doing a deep dive on the parable. It's also true that the second son negates the point Trent made because the second son did the "right things" in his own eyes. God doesn't only care about what you do, He also cares why you do it.

[@ironymatt]

​@@ethanmiller5487 I wouldn't say that the second son negates Trent's point, other than that yeah, you're right

[@ethanmiller5487]

@@ironymatt That's where we differ.

[@Ap31920]

This is what I find so strange. Protestants say they can't lose their salvation but also that you can't be saved and a deliberate sinner. I was a protestant for almost 15 years and holding on to that cognitive dissonance was not the best. As a Catholic now for almost a year frequent confession and the Eucharist have practically torn sin out of my soul. I still struggle, but there was an allure before that is not there anymore.

[@JohnHenrysaysHi]

Good morning, Trent! Prayed for you and everyone here at Mass yesterday and in my Rosary this morning. Hope you and your family had a blessed Feast Day of the Holy Archangels, St. Michael, St. Gabriel, and St. Raphael yesterday! Exodus 23:20-21 See, I am sending an angel before you, to guard you on the way and bring you to the place I have prepared. Be attentive to him and obey him. Revelation 12:7-8 Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels battled against the dragon. The dragon and its angels fought back, but they did not prevail and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. Prayed to our Lord Jesus through the intercession of Saint Michael, as well as Saint Gabriel and Saint Raphael, to help protect and defend us. He's our friend and loves us with the love of Heaven, the love of God. God entrusted us to Saint Michael, so we can trust he will help us get to Heaven. He will help take care of us! Hope you and yours have a light-filled peaceful joyful week, conclusion to your September, and start to your October, Trent!

[@justice8718]

Be warned that God doesn’t dwell in temples made by hands. So think about what actually dwells there instead.

[@JohnHenrysaysHi]

@@justice8718 Hope you and yours enjoy your week!

[@samueljennings4809]

@@justice8718 This is a poor argument. By this line of thinking, churches in general, including Protestant churches, are not holy places. God is not limited to physical places but that doesn't mean that churches are not holy ground. And what are you implying by "what actually dwells there instead"? I'm not even Catholic but what are you trying to say? That the Holy Spirit does not dwell in churches where Christians worship?

[@justice8718]

@@samueljennings4809 Yes. Unfortunately. A temple made by man’s hands is useless, but fortunately, a temple made by man’s hands is useless. The underground churches of China are wonderful spaces for him.

[@Overlord277]

May our Lord have mercy on us and on the whole world.

[@Electric_]

Psalm 19 talks about mortal sin as well. Towards the end of the Psalm David prays that God would keep him from willful sins and great transgressions, and David wants to at least be blameless of those. The Old Testament has a clear teaching of venial and mortal sin. This is a topic where Protestants don’t just break with Rome, they break with the entire Holy Bible and the ancient Jews as well.

[@sivad1025]

I had this exact thought during the responsitory psalm yesterday

[@bobinindiana]

@@Electric_ Why mention Protestants? No, we don’t break with Judaism as we use the Jewish Masoretic text for our Old Testament & we note that King David did not lose his Salvation in spite of his murder and adultery, not to mention his polygamy.

[@Electric_]

@@bobinindiana did you know the Masoretic text was invented between the 7th and 10th centuries AD? We Catholics use the Canon found in the Greek Septuagint, which was in use during Christ’s time and from where all the quotes in the New Testament from the Old are from. It’s wrong that you use the Masoretic Text, and it was not used by the early Church because it didn’t even exist at the time. Furthermore, King David believed he lost his salvation, which is why he repented of those deeds. In Psalm 51:12 David says “Restore to me the joy of Your salvation, and uphold me by Your generous Spirit.” Psalm 51 is titled A Prayer of Repentance.

[@bobinindiana]

@@Electric_ Yes, I am aware of the history of the Masoretic text, as well as the problems with both the Septuagint and also the Samaritan Pentateuch. My point is that the Reformation is a permanent and total break from Catholicism, which formerly said over 100 times in Council that believers in the Reformation were headed to the eternal lake of fire. 🔥

[@Electric_]

@@bobinindiana it’s true, they largely are because they were first generation schismatics, just like the Judaizers in Acts 15. They were apostates. Now modern Protestants are largely born into schism and heresy, and are less culpable and some may go to heaven, as God only holds people accountable for what they know and can reasonably learn. The Church canonized the Bible in 382 AD at the Council of Rome, and no one has the right to dispute it, as it would be disputing the Holy Spirit.

[@timrichardson4018]

I used to subscribe to the "never saved to begin with" idea. But the problem is, the verses in Hebrews and Peter that describe people who fall away and have eternal punishment to look forward to as people who truly were saved at some point. Assurance is one of the great benefits of the sacraments. When approached in sincerity, we can know we have been forgiven and/or received sanctifying grace.

[@AJTramberg]

I am one of rare tweeners....I'm protestant, I'm NOT Calvinist, and I do not believe in once saved, always saved. There aren't that many of us. I think the NT is flush with so many warning passages, this is abundantly obvious. The Calvinist "out", is that if someone falls away into sin, they were never saved to begin with. Very convenient circular reasoning. Ultimately, I believe God knows our heart. Do we have a repentant heart or a rebellious heart? I do not believe The Catholic Church or any church can look through a strict rigid set of yes/no statements and determine someone's position in Grace. Some self-proclaimed believers are clearly lost, some are clearly saved, and there's a bunch in the middle that only God knows for sure.

[@asdiciple]

my friend we are not rare. Maybe you are speaking for the west but there are a lot of us who dont believe in OSAS

[@-R-H-]

You mention our view that those who fall away were never truly saved. This isn't "convenient circular reasoning," but a biblical truth. Consider 1 John 2:19 … "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." This verse clearly indicates that those who permanently fall away demonstrate they were never truly part of the body of believers. You're right that God knows our hearts. But remember, He doesn't just observe our hearts - He changes them. When God saves someone, He gives them a new heart (Ezekiel 36:26). This new heart perseveres in faith. The doctrine of perseverance is about God's faithfulness to complete the work He begins in us (Philippians 1:6). Our assurance isn't based on our own efforts or our lack of faithfulness, but on God's.

[@AbsurdScandal]

​@@-R-H-That verse about never being part of us refers in context to gnostics and false teachers, not to scandalously grave sinners or apostates in general. It's not a prooftext against being able to lose your salvation

[@Andromedon777]

Wheat and tares. I say it like this: fast forward to heaven. 100% of the people who end up there are eternally saved. And none who do not end there are eternally saved. Here on earth, we don't try to earn our salvation, rather, we have faith in Christ as our redeemer and our works naturally flow from that, and our change of heart. Our salvation is eternally secured upon when we follow Christ (for those who are real followers, the elect), and our sanctification is a lifetime process.

[@joeleach5089]

@@-R-H- Yes. Very good.

[@bhgtree]

Thanks Trent. As a 'cradle Catholic' I was often questioned about being Saved and had to struggle with explaining the Sacraments of the Church and how they give us Saving Grace and forgiveness of sin. Its very difficult explaining to our Protestant friends if they are so convinced they are correct and us Catholics are wrong.🙏🙏

[@SarajevoKyoto]

Only God/Christ can forgive sin. NOT some guy in a snazzy suit/robe/hat

[@bhgtree]

@@SarajevoKyoto Our Lord, give the Apostles power to forgive sins: _John 20:23 "Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”_

[@catcans]

>stealing a few chocolate almonds from the grocery store That's oddly specific Trent 😂😂

[@-R-H-]

"incredibly minor sins like stealing a few chocolate almonds from the grocery store". Thou shalt not steal is therefore an incredibly minor sin! That's inconsistent with both Catholic and Protestant teachings! Maybe Trent is convincing himself?

[@nosuchthing8]

Yes

[@nosuchthing8]

​@-R-H- I knew people that had an urge to steal like this. Maybe he has that issue too.

[@bobblacka918]

Excellent presentation. I think you did a fantastic job of explaining the problem with the "Once saved, always saved" philosophy. It never made any sense to me because it implies that a person really never fully knows if he is saved or not until he actually meets Jesus, and then it is too late.

[@anitra7747]

“That wasn’t real socialism” reminds me of the similar statement; “they weren’t really saved in the first place”.

[@billmartin3561]

Excellent video, Trent! You wiped the floor with James White on this topic many years ago, crazy that people believe this doctrine when there is so much scripture, and common sense, that works against it.

[@nickw9766]

Being a member of the chosen people isn’t enough. Pharisees and the scribes thought this too. The parable of the Good Samaritan is a classic example of that.

[@-R-H-]

This parable indeed shows that true faith manifests in works of love. However, these works are the fruit, not the root, of salvation.

[@justice8718]

@@-R-H- It unnerves me how truly good character is ignored because thinking about how we bond with God is a mere afterthought despite how the Old Testament emphasizes that righteousness must come from being right with him.

[@bobinindiana]

Huh? Samaritan are heretics-they even have a separate Pentateuch & still worship at Mount Gerizim. Yes, there are s handful of them alive today.

[@tabandken8562]

​@@-R-H-The root of Salvation is Christ's death on the cross.

[@christinemcguiness9356]

Thank you Trent. Excellent video, so informative. God bless🙏

[@IsNo-th8lr]

He fell to sin, but who can say he fell from grace? That’s a big leap in logic, who’s to say if Steve Lawson is saved or not?

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

I noticed this conflation as well. A man who does not have a good report from outside the church is not qualified to be a bishop (pastor) but that doesn't make him not qualified to be a Christian. I think this video blurs this line mainly because Catholicism regards the New Testament as optional in all matters of the faith. A bishop must be the husband of one wife. That means that if a man is single then he can be a member of the church but he cannot be a bishop (elder, pastor - all synonyms). By the same token, if he does not have a "good report" then he is disqualified on those grounds as well. See 1 Tim. 3 and Titus 1) But Catholicism ignores those clear apostolic requirements in favor of whatever gets puked out of the Vatican.

[@theosteven3362]

Thats not the point of the video duh. Your own bible itself testifies (if only u ever read it), that ANY CONSEQUENCE OF SIN IS DEATH. Idk which basis of scripture u can quote to say, sinning and grace can coexist together so that u dare to sag "he fell into sin but not out of grace". 😂 if in your theology (which DOESNT DIFFERENTIATE mortal and venial sins), committing a small sin means death, let alone a frckn ADULTERY. If he committed that sin, AND NOT REPENT would he remain saved or not? Thats the ONLY THING YALL CALVINISTS NEED TO ANSWER. duh. 😂

[@theosteven3362]

​@@GizmoFromPizmoThats not the point of the video duh. Your own bible itself testifies (if only u ever read it), that ANY CONSEQUENCE OF SIN IS DEATH. Idk which basis of scripture u can quote to say, sinning and grace can coexist together so that u dare to sag "he fell into sin but not out of grace". 😂 if in your theology (which DOESNT DIFFERENTIATE mortal and venial sins), committing a small sin means death, let alone a frckn ADULTERY. If he committed that sin, AND NOT REPENT would he remain saved or not? Thats the ONLY THING YALL CALVINISTS NEED TO ANSWER. duh. 😂

[@Spiritof76Catholic]

Thanks Trent for a really great video. You proved your point there is no such thing as eternal security.

[@gentlegiants1974]

As someone raised evangelical protestant who converted to Catholicism 13 years ago as an adult, I was teaching protestant adult bible classes for the ten years prior to my conversion, and I can honestly say that 90% of the bullshit I was fed and fed to others for the first 3/4 of my life is well represented in the comment section of this video. Protestant ministers are not ministers of anything, they simply disseminate misinformation and half truths mingled with blasphemy and sacrilege. Some inadvertently, some maliciously with intention to mislead, others in complete ignorance. God alone knows their culpability. I may end up in hell as a sinner and rightly so, but at least it won't be because I believed some wishy washy bs shoved down my throat by a protestant bible thumper on a mission to defend their interpretations of the Bible.. For me there is no turning back, it would be akin to looking back at Sodom and Gomorrah, once safely outside the city limits towards freedom and safety. I'm a terrible Catholic, (Rigidity and all, you know) but I was WAY worse off when a protestant, back then I thought I knew it all, now I know I know nothing of God as I ought. This brings weeping and sorrow, and longing, and humble resignation to providence. Without Him I can do nothing, but with God all things are possible. There is no other way.

[@SheepDog1974]

Did you write all this after your rosary prayer to Mary or before?

[@gentlegiants1974]

@@SheepDog1974 No I wrote it after spending the day on a roof building a dormer.

[@SheepDog1974]

@@gentlegiants1974 😂so you've exchanged "wishy washy" for heresy.?

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@gentlegiants1974 You really must have been a strange Protestant according to your rant. I think no one missed you with such attitude.

[@mycattitude]

@@gentlegiants1974 You're very bitter, and you really need to watch out for that pride you're exhibiting, at what you misconstrue as a far superior brand of faith. Your last statement, "Without Him I can do nothing, but with God all things are possible. There is no other way." - every sincere protestant I know believes this, professes this regularly (verbatim actually), and lives this. Not sure how you missed that? I truly don't understand what kind of church or churches you were going to, or what kind of selective memory you're choosing to have that you have missed that.

[@BreenyLee]

Faith + Works? NO! Faith + Fruit! The believer does not work, they bear fruit, and they bear fruit once they are IN the VINE, no other way for a Christian to bear fruit but through Jesus Christ. (John 15:1-5) Jesus said if you are in Him yet you bear no fruit, He will pluck you out and throw you into the fire because FRUIT is the evidence that you are truly in CHRIST. Fruit is the fruit of the Spirit. Love, Joy, Peace, Patience etc (Gal 5:22) it is the same list in (2 Peter 1:5) Virtue, Self Control, Godliness, Brotherly Kindness etc. It is the very nature of Christ that we bear that makes us “Truly saved”

[@Maranatha99]

Well said!

[@deus_vult8111]

Since they’re Calvinists they believe that from all eternity God decreed that they would sin and that there’s nothing they could have done differently…

[@chrisloan_tso]

A very good examination of what they deem eternal security! Thanks for the insight!

[@Lovecatholicfaith]

My dream and goal for this life is be able to confess my sins and take the Body Of Christ ❤ please praying ❤for me❤😇

[@bridgetgress]

Thank you Trent! Amazing video as always

[@michaelbock5111]

Trent, I appreciate your thoughtful approach to these videos. I am an Anglican who happens to believe in Perseverence of the saints. Out of the reformed doctrines that come from the TULIP Doctrines of Grace this doctrine seems to me to be very straightforwardly proven by scripture. So I'm curious about what the Catholic churches teachings are regarding these scriptural proof texts for the 'P' doctrine. Also I don't want to get bogged down in a debate about Sola Scriptura here. I'm simply interested in what the official teaching of the Catholic church is with respect to these verses: Thank you. Here are just two of those proof texts: John 10:28-29 New Catholic Bible 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one will ever snatch them from my hand. 29 My Father who has given them to me is greater than all, and no one can snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 1 John 2:19 New Catholic Bible 19 They went out from us, but they never really belonged to us. If they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. By departing from us, they made it clear that none of them belonged to us.

[@IvanEck-h8u]

I am obviously not Trent and in no way am I trying to speak for him. However, I would like to offer my opposing view. First of all, there is strong implications that we can be blotted out of the book of life. Secondly, there are many places where the blessing was prefaced by the word “if”, strongly suggesting that the gift was conditional. In regard to John 10, John later recording the words of Jesus as saying that, none had been lost but the son of perdition. this implies that one had been lost. I don’t believe that Jesus included the individual when he said that no man can take you out of my hand. Here is why I say that. The same God that spoke through his son also spoke in Ezekiel and said, When the righteous turn away from righteousness and commits sin, in his sin shall he die. (a condensation of Ezekiel 18:24) It is true that no man can pluck us out of his hand, but no free gift has to be kept, it can be thrown away by its owner. 1 John 2:19 They went out from us… Etc. To me, this simply described folks who had come among the body of believers, who had claimed to be their brothers, and folks of whom time had proved they were not sincere followers of Christ. I don’t see that this has any bearing on the doctrine of “perseverance”.

[@michaelbock5111]

@@IvanEck-h8u thanks for your reply. 1 John 2:19 goes directly to the point that Trent was making in the video where reformed people explaining how people “fall away “ from the faith is to say they were never truly in to begin with. This makes sense to me but as Trent alludes to here all Christians are actually dealing with this in more or less the same way even though the official doctrines may be different. Thessalonians talks about a “falling away” that has to come first before the return of Christ. Jesus in his parable of the sower talks about the seeds falling in good soil vs rocky soil etc. which indicates that there will be people who follow the faith for a while and then leave. So in a real sense you can fall away. Eternal security/Perseverance of the saints argues it seems to me from the end point. After the believer is in heaven it is proof that there was nothing that can take the believer out of the father’s hand. I think Trent is really pushing back on those using this doctrine to promote a kind of lazy Christianity. To those people I would say that you have to look at the whole counsel of scripture. For instance Paul’s says to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

[@FirstnameLastname-qz9fr]

I'm not sure those texts mean what you think they mean. Perhaps you could elaborate on the following. John 10:28 only says "no one will snatch them from my hand", but it says nothing about someone leaving the hand willingly (ie. by choosing to sin). I'm not sure what you are trying to prove with 1 John 2:19, but slightly later 1 John 2:26 seems to make clear that they can be led astray " I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray." If preserverence of the saints is true, there is no reason for John to make such claims.

[@GodLovesAll-j8j]

ST. THOMAS AQUINAS: “A penitent’s sins are forgiven, not when the priest says the sacramental words of absolution over him or her, nor when the penitent completes the assigned penance, but the instant the penitent is truly sorry for his or her sins.” POPE BENEDICT XVI: “An inmate asked the pope why he had to go to confession for pardon instead of just getting on his knees and asking God for forgiveness. Pope Benedict XVI responded, “Naturally, if you get on your knees and, with real love for God, pray that God forgive you, he will.”

[@undolf4097]

So to summarize, it seems Trent’s point is that the Calvinist doctrine is incoherent because these Protestants still do what Catholics do, that is receiving an inheritance of salvation from God and repenting when they Sin, despite the fact Calvinists insist salvation cannot be loss despite their sins. This points to a hypocrisy of belief. The ultimate answer for them is that even if they do sin, they are on a general “upward trajectory” of holiness as signs of their salvation and if they separate from God, they were never truly saved in the first place. This dissonance is coherent with Christian history and scripture that indicates the innovation of Calvinist doctrine is just wrong. That is, a Calvinist reading of Christianity is wrong, not that Christianity is wrong. Calvinists, motivated by the false idea that Catholicism is works-based salvation, fall into their own pitfalls.

[@b00g3rs21]

You could argue that young calvinists are misinformed about the idea of "works-based" salvation, but for older ones and especially preachers and apologists, it's a willful ignorance sadly.

[@franciscoarturoriveranajer2500]

Assurance of salvation Is just the fact that you have faith in what Jesús did on the cross AND all the promoses related that aré shown in Scriptures. However, if you do not have a transformed life AND affetions, you have no basis for your assurance. For example, Steve Lawson have to question His assurance AND His repentance carefully, because having been years preaching the word of God AND living in sin at the same Time, shows that he Is very capable of hipocrasy... Maybe Lawson Is really repentant (like king David when confronted by Natan on regards of Bethsabee), but he have to take the consecuences of his actions, public shame, humiliation, problems in his marriage, not being a pastor anymore ever, etc. I would like that Rome actually apply eclessial discipline to priests, bishops AND popes found in lies, thefth, fornication, homosexuality, bestiality, pederasty or murder.

[@undolf4097]

@@b00g3rs21 Ultimately, the most common Protestant heresy that leads to all these different positions is a rejection of the doctrine of sanctification, this being the primary reality that Luther opposed. Without sanctification as a mechanic, Catholicism can be more easily lampooned as a pelagian heresy. That’s what makes it a strawman, by not representing the missing piece of sanctification.

[@robertjanis9142]

@@undolf4097 "doctrine of sanctification"....please explain dear Catholic....who does the sanctifying? You? Your demonstrated works? No Sanctification is a process in which the believer yields to the will of the indwelt Holy Spirit and evidenced through the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Did you ever notice that Justification happens first? ooops....

[@b00g3rs21]

@@undolf4097 when I see protestants, always, point to the council of trent as evidence of wbs, I really struggle to understand how they're interpreting the doctrine that way. I also struggle to understand their issue with santification, why is there so much push back on simply doing good works? Even if you don't want to think it sanctifies, Jesus very clearly told us to do good works. So why not just do them instead of all the protestation? It just gives me the impression of thou doth protest too much.

[@brandonfrench5285]

I don't know, man... if "salvation is secure" but you can still fall but it only means you were never saved, despite your best efforts, has got to be the most nerve wracking thing I can think of. It doesn't feel secure, it feels like a big game in which I'm a chess piece with no say. I can try to love God with all my being but if I'm not good enough, it was all a lie from the start, and Id have no idea. However, acknowledging that I can lose my salvation by my OWN actions and decisions, AND that there's a clear cut way back, once again wrapped up in another decision I make, feels waaay more secure.

[@lawrencestanley8989]

At 1:28, in Galatians 5:4, Paul is not speaking to Christians who have committed some sin and lost their salvation; Paul is speaking to individuals who were attempting to be justified by the law, rejecting salvation by grace alone through faith alone. If someone is exposed to the gospel, but turns their back on Christ, seeking to be justified by works, they are separated from Christ. Salvation is only obtained by faith alone in Christ alone - works do nothing but act as somewhat of a litmus test of the genuineness of one's faith (James 2:14ff). No, no genuinely saved Christian can lose their salvation. Eternal security is found in places like Jeremiah 32:40 and John 10:4-5. If "eternal security" was false, then Jesus could never grant "eternal life," but rather, He could only ever call it "conditional life," but He doesn't. It's eternal, and NO ONE will snatch them out of His hand, or out of the hand of the Father.

[@DIBBY40]

What works would show that someone is saved?

[@DanV.Teachings]

Wrong.. this is a poorly excuse to be sinning all the time and to not want to change. Faith ALONE doesn’t work. faith without works is DEAD. Yes we will always come short because what Jesus did for us can’t be matched to anything of this world. Even Satan has Faith.

[@DanV.Teachings]

Let me “claim myself to be Saved”. Lazy.

[@b_5443]

@@DanV.Teachingsyou assume someone who holds to this view actively walks in sin. Which seems to just reveal your own ignorance as to the nature of sovereign grace, which transforms a person (which means they have new loves). A person who has been born of God loves God because of the new nature they’ve been given. Your comment just reveals that you still believe your own salvation is up to you. Anyone who proclaims eternal security and lives in sin is just as misinformed and wrong as you are.

[@lawrencestanley8989]

@@DIBBY40 Well, the works that James said justified Abraham was his offering up of Isaac, something that happened many years after Abraham first exercised faith and was declared righteous before God. So, it isn't that there's a specific list of works that demonstrate the genuineness of one's salvation, but rather, James is referring to actions that one would never do unless he had a genuine faith. Abraham, like any other father, would have never sacrificed his own son on an alter unless he had faith that God could raise him up again, and that is exactly what is said in Hebrews 11:19.

[@Kooch2004]

How are we going to claim this in any way means Lawson isn’t saved? He already is showing repentance and He believes the gospel.

[@MommaBeeb]

As a new Christian, I can’t understand the idea of “once saved always saved,” because of my faith journey up until this point. I think the Catholic understanding makes much more sense.

[@joeleach5089]

If you are a Christian, this means you have repented, turned from your sins (and also from the sin of trying to merit your own salvation through any works-they are filthy rags) and trusted in Jesus Christ alone as your Lord and Savior. God HAS forgiven ALL your sin, past present and future. “And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.” (Col. 2:13-14) As a judge, God no longer sees our sin, because his “righteous” verdict removes all condemnation (Rom. 8:1). But as a Father, he’s quite aware of our remaining sin, and he wants us to be aware of it, too, so that we can fight it, kill it, and ask him to forgive it. The story of Jesus washing Peter’s feet in John 13 illustrates how, though clean, Peter still needs to come to Jesus to confess individual sins. But God sees our sins as a loving Father, not as angry critic. That’s how the Lord’s Prayer begins: not “Our Judge,” but “Our Father”. Protestants pray this petition from inside the family of God, not from the outside trying to get back in. It’s true that the normal way of receiving forgiveness is through confessing and asking.

[@jtbasener8740]

I am a protestant but am as well very much in rejection of the "Eternal Security" for this very reason. God Above only knows who will and will not be saved by the time of the fatal hour. Thank you for your respectful dialogue, dear friend, and I hope you have a very blessed day as well.

[@mycattitude]

Lovely and gracious. I'm not in "total rejection" as you stated. The bible is full of cautions and admonishions. I trust God to hold me steadfast. I stay humble about my limitations, and know that it takes my willingness and effort (working to do his good pleasure), but far more, it's God holding me up and keeping me on the straight and narrow. That's what gives me blessed assurance. I know I could fall, I could become reprobate. That's if I got careless, leaned too much on the merit of my own good works, got prideful. It's only God that can keep me steadfast, and that's what and who I trust in. My effort is just to fall into his grace and have just enough sense to stay there.

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@jtbasener8740 If your salvation depends on you and your ability, then you have the right to reject eternal security. It is actually unbelief, because you pick the Bible and don't believe what Jesus promised His sheep.

[@jtbasener8740]

@@Nolongeraslave I find it quite odd to think that, if a man is trapped in a hole, we would say his salvation "Depends on him" merely because he has free will to grab onto - and, at any point, let go of - a rope lowered by the hands of an entirely different man. Only a fool would be full of pride instead of gratitude when successfully saved from the hole. I hope you have a basic idea of how I see it, but if you would like, I am fully ready to hear more from you if you have any further thoughts.

[@jtbasener8740]

@@mycattitude It sounds to me like you are holding on just the right path. Blessings, dear friend, and I hope God gives you strength to remain in the fight that is always worth it.

[@Nolongeraslave]

@@jtbasener8740 "There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none that understand, there is none that seeks after God. They are all gone astray, they are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one" "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" Yes, we have a will, but that will inclination is to sin. I normally ask those who boast about their "free will", whether they sin. Normally they go in the rant of how their religion is good at repentance and miss the point. The point is if the free will is that free, why not just exercise it by not sining at all?

[@SuperOrdnung]

I find your way of explaining, reasonable and convincing. I’m a Protestant

[@ShawnsGaming79]

You could say a Catholic is more secure in their salvation because there is no guess work. If you sin, do this etc. Protestants are basically crossing their fingers till the end.

[@erikriza7165]

A Catholic with a working conscience can know truthfully whether or not he is in the State of Sanctifying Grace.

[@jdotoz]

@@ShawnsGaming79 As a Catholic with at least mild obsessive compulsion, this isn't quite true.

[@b00g3rs21]

@@jdotoz scrupulosity can be difficut, but I don't think that's representative of the average Catholic.

[@jdotoz]

@@b00g3rs21 No, just saying it's not necessarily more secure

[@macmac1022]

Ya, what a garbage justice system, thankfully our is WAY WAY better. We dont have a judge who says if you repent and believe in me, I will punish my son for your crimes instead of you. You see, we try not to punish people for crimes they did not commit because that is unjust, but god seems to love being unjust and likes to punish people for crimes they did not commit. All the first born in egypt just to name one of the examples.

[@jrhemmerich]

As several have noted, there is a lot of overlap in practice (sin requires repentance), even if the theology is different (whether salvation is actually lost). The best Protestant view will emphasize perseverance in faith as the test of one’s salvation, “For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end” (Heb. 3:14). The elect are eternally secure for they can’t be taken from Christ’s hand, but the elect must, as Peter teaches, have trials to “test the genuineness of your faith” (1 Peter 1:7). Calvinist and Thomists are correct that the elect cannot lose their salvation, the mistake is to deduce from this that all who profess belief actually have a “share in Christ.” It is not one’s original psychological confidence, though that should be great in every way, but it is the perseverance in faith which grows our assurance. Calvinist are right to ground assurance in a persistent faith-one that repents of all sin, not just mortal sin-and it’s correct that one never loses one’s election or salvation. But it is true that one cannot have total certainty of salvation, not because the elect are not secure or because one can lose their justification, but because the test for a genuine original faith is perseverance in faith. If we give up Christ, then we never really had a share in him, but we may have had sincere conviction. We really can fall away from that, but true believers will persevere until the end-it is faith alone that saves because it is a living faith that works itself out in good deeds and repentance from dead works. “Once saved always saved” is not KNOWN to us by mere confession of faith but by perseverance in it. Assurance comes with sincerity of faith in the present and with time.

[@dereksimmons1252]

How terrible must it be to constantly have to go to confession to regain salvation. Every sin is a mortal sin, according to the bible. Every sin will send you to hell according to Gods word. You might as well live in your confessional.

[@georgetodd3035]

Biblically thats just not the case: “If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life-to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭16‬ ‭ESV‬‬ (It is also translated as “mortal sin”, hence the Catholic use of the term)

[@joeleach5089]

I was interested in your reply. The 1 John passage is tough. It is addressed to presumed believers (brothers)--so their sins don't lead to death since they have already been forgiven. But if a "brother" denies the gospel, then that marks him as an unbeliever at that would lead to death.

[@rodrigomachado9870]

I'll try not to sound crude, and I know it's not the same, but the "he was never really saved" argument reminds me a lot when someone "transitions" people say "they were actually always a woman"

[@sonofbard]

I was told by two protestant pastors that I probably wasn't saved. This drove me to seek Christ in Scripture and the history of the Church in terms of her beliefs which inevitably led me to the Catholic Church.

[@luboshcamber1992]

@sonofbard So they were right about you.

[@joeleach5089]

@@luboshcamber1992 ouch

[@tammywilliams-ankcorn9533]

The Bible does say nothing can snatch us from His hand, and it also says some were part of us but weren’t really of us and left. I think the only assurance we have is to keep our eyes on Jesus. When we look to ourselves like whether we are sinning too much or following Christ enough, we lose sight of Christ. Instead we look to Christ’s sacrifice and repent, knowing the Holy Spirit will help us grow in our faith.

[@EdmundLauKM]

I am so thankful for the Sacrament of Confession/Reconciliation. This is a very clear and persuasive message from Trent Horn on the simplicity of the Catholic faith and how that helps us to have true assurance of salvation in Christ. ❤

[@everetunknown5890]

Thanks for the great video brother. If I could give my two cents I think we can say there's a bit of a difference in repenting from "sin" and repenting from "sins" (plural). Anyone repents from "sins" when they feel they did something incorrectly. But when the believer repents from "sin" they have made the decision to leave sinful things alone altogether. That is what saves a person: seeing imperfection in falsehood and perfection in Jesus. I hope that helps, God bless ❤🕊️

[@izxy70]

nothing funnier than watching the look of confusion on someone's face when a catholic tells them "we agree"

[@codycampbell27]

There is a remnant. The unseen church that has received salvation. I thought I was saved most my life until about a year ago when God changed my life. It has been so greatly by his hand that I can’t even compare it to the life I had before. I live and breathe Christ everyday now.

[@Maranatha99]

I had the same experience. Yes, a remamanent has carried out the faith for the past 2000 yrs.

[@ApostolicZoomer]

Jesus: “the one who handed me over to you has the greater sin.” But I’m sure the earliest Christian understanding is that all sins are the same.

[@rlhicks1]

Why would you think that when the Bible clearly teaches all sins are not the same?

[@ApostolicZoomer]

@@rlhicks1 I know, some Calvinists falsely interpret the Sermon on the Mount to suggest that all sins are the same, even though that would make the Bible completely contradict itself in many places.

[@Thatoneguy-pu8ty]

James 2:10 bruh

[@danielz.7346]

@@rlhicks1 ApostolicZoomer is being sarcastic.

[@samueljennings4809]

@@Thatoneguy-pu8ty 1 John 5:16-17. All infractions being sin does not mean that they're all automatically the same. There is sin that leads unto death and sin that does not lead unto death, but that doesn't mean we can pick and choose what to follow. We should be holy in all our dealings. Like how someone who commits a serious parking violation is in contempt of the court but that is not the same degree as someone who has shoplifted or someone who has committed murder. They have all broken the law, but they are not the same crimes.

[@PB_324]

Very Helpful - thanks Trent ! ❤

[@bonohyogurt]

As a revert Catholic that played with protestantism, I am very thankful for the testimony of saints like St. Augustine, St. Ignatius Loyola, St. Teresa of Avila, St. Philip Neri and St. John of The Cross. They never felt "saved", they just repented and the more they got close to God, the more conscious they were of their own vulnerability and sinful nature. I am terrified of thinking my hubris would push me one day to feel "saved" or "good". Only by the grace of God I can be saved, but I can never really think the game is over until... it is over. Holy Mary, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

[@lukekrell5665]

Good video Trent! - A Protestant

[@nsinkov]

The protestant can't explain who is truly saved. The Catholic can't explain what exactly is mortal sin. (e.g. Trent has said before that some mortal sins don't apply to teenagers)

[@kyleboone1242]

As a Protestant pastor who is Arminian, I can affirm that it has been my Calvinist members who struggle the most with assurance of salvation.

[@renlamomtsopoe]

Please give your take on WLC vs Hijab debate on the Trinity

[@MartyFriedmanJr]

yes please

[@DPtheChristian]

He should not. I'm sorry to say this but Trent Horn's specialty is not dealing with Islam and Muslims. He simply doesn't know enough about the religion to comment whether or not the debate was in favour of Christianity. I hope Trent sees this comment and is humble to agree.

[@MartyFriedmanJr]

@@DPtheChristian Trent doesnt need to be well versed in Islam to give his take on the debate. He can just provide his responses to Hijab's criticisms of the trinity and other arguments, and discuss how he would have answered Hijab's questions. He doesnt have to discuss Islam whatsoever.

[@calebhickerson]

As a recovering Calvinist, you really hit the nail on the head with this. Eternal security made me so anxious that I was a false Christian just fooling myself. Salvation is not an event that happens at an alter call, it’s the active following in the footsteps of our savior.

[@caleb3639]

0:22 the awareness is notable and humble.

[@JenniferMcMann]

Yes, pastors stepping down in the midst of scandal shows that they too believe not all sin is weighted equally. Even though many teach to the contrary and say that "sin is sin", and none greater than another.

[@arthurw8054]

Jimmy Swaggert's not a very good actor.

[@yankeecitygirl]

Very good pianist though!

[@telleroftheone]

I honestly think his years since suggest he was genuine, theology aside.

[@bobinindiana]

@@yankeecitygirl Cousin of Jerry Lee Lewis & also talented musically, as you say. Both had sex problems.

[@liliabrizuela2569]

Perfectly done Trent.

[@alanmolox2095]

To every argument there is a counter point, while I'm not a big fan of lazy Christians, you cannot deny what is implied by what Jesus said in John Chapter 10: "and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one." Doesn't "eternal" mean forever? And doesn't "no one" mean No Body? So, I guess I'm having trouble with the "loose your salvation" people. BTW: One of Protestants major selling points is "We don't do deeds to earn our salvation, it is a free gift from God, so that NO MAN CAN BOAST."

[@mycattitude]

That's a great scripture. Jesus' own words no less. He kind of sounded like he really meant it too, and it's a tad bit more than just implied. He states it firmly and point blank. Kind of no room for doubt there. It will be interesting to see what the Catholics come up w/ as a rebuttal. Mind you, I'm know the scriptures on this, I've tried many times to have a civil discussion on it. It turns into this baffling thing. If the church teaches a thing, it really doesn't matter what the bible says about it. This almost zombie thing happens. And most of the online Catholic people that will intelligently have these debates are really smart, also very up on scriptures type of Christians too. Just as the scriptures say, we really do keep each other on our toes: "As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his fellow". The dominant protestant presence in North America has changed and sharpened modern Catholics. Many of them no longer fit the old Catholic stereotype of Mass attending, non-bible reading Christians, that most typically don't really even know their own faith, let alone the scriptures. They are now actively encouraged to read their bibles. sometimes by their own priests, most commonly by a plethora of Catholic channels. CAtholic bible studies are common enough. Like Austin Shuggs of the YT channel, Gospel Simplicity, was surprised to find out. That's a lovely channel btw, the he has a dominant Catholic following, and they love him for his open mindedness and journey. He remains a stalwart protestant, though now admits he's somewhat hybridized by his delving into Orthodox and Catholicism. That last is a bit of an aside that I love to see. I do enjoy ecumenicism. But likewise, the Catholics do keep us on our toes too. Because of the ecumenical channels, and the apologist channels for both branches, many protestants aren't so prejudiced. Many of them have found at least a grudging appreciation for their Catholic brethren, and there's a growing group of protestants that want to and do delve into church history and the originating and foundational church fathers.

[@samueljennings4809]

@@mycattitude I'm not Catholic, but I could potentially offer a counterpoint that this doesn't mean that a person can be so hardened by sin in their heart and love of the world that they eventually completely lose their faith and turn their back on God and resist (quench) the Holy Spirit. Grace, I don't believe, is irresistible. If you stay with Jesus, you have assurance. However, if you harden your hearts and run away from Jesus, well, all bets are off. Maybe you do come back to your senses and come back, but do you want to presume that such a thing could never happen when it happens in Scripture all the time?

[@mycattitude]

@@samueljennings4809 Yes, you're right and the scriptures certainly say that too. Paul himself says it. Too foggy right now to quote the exact scripture. Not enough coffee, and too much of a cold atm. What I will say briefly though is I love that you're steel manning for our Catholic friends a bit. I left a long enough post, but the scriptures do support both and God alone knows how to sort it all out perfectly. I live w/ blessed assurance, standing on the scripture the OP quoted. "I take heed whereto I stand, lest I fall", as Paul did. There are literal pages of scriptures just about balance alone. I get all looking up one thing, and get lost in those online bible helps. Just as I once did w/ all my book helps (can't remember what they are called atm, lol). Off for more coffee and breakfast.

[@JohnBaran-kw5jf]

This video was pretty hard hitting. It's like when Bruce Lee goes into an opposing dojo and challenges all the guys at once.

[@robert-de-calvary]

I'm so glad to be a Catholic instead one of those spin offs where a guy in 15th century decided to make his own rules. God bless my brothers!

[@nosuchthing8]

Same!!!! Why follow the dude who tool some scissors to the bible???

[@ivarkoedijker168]

As a protestant myself, I think those "eternal security" protestants mix up two different issues: 1. Do we deserve salvation? (No, that is why it is called "grace".) 2. Can we lose our salvation? (Yes, if we sin without repentance and do not do our utmost to keep ourselves from sinning again.)