How to Train With Heart Rate AND Progress Your Power Numbers

[@SteveBrill]

As usual, super interesting Scott. I’m a 67 year old who is keen to maintain any fitness I’ve built, so maybe now train smarter not harder. I’ll start looking at heart rate much closer and avoid the power numbers. 👍

[@cyclotaur6315]

Ditto for me, same age, quite fit, been road cycling 12 years or so. #swearyscott 🤣👍 is a breath of fresh air for sensible advice to older folks, most other coaching groups are focused on high end power and training for racing/crits etc, whereas all my event rides are endurance/fondo type rides. I’m training to get faster for longer in the endurance zone, and chasing FTP numbers doesn’t help that much.

[@martindean4244]

@@cyclotaur6315 Absolutely agree! Am mid 50s and still striving to be the best I can be in fondo endurance events (would like to make top 20% of age grouop consistently) FTP number chasing has only resulted in fatigue and terrible plateaus. Learnt the hard way with disappointemnts for results in annual events when you think you have trained better, harder and primed. Only to not enjoy any gains on the day. So very much appreciate Scott for challenging me, my trainng and my journey. As you say just want to contiue "gaining faster for longer".

[@cyclotaur6315]

@@martindean4244 I’ve had two DNFs in two years at our biggest mountain fondo after getting it all wrong (for me) in the first half trying to ride to pwr/time. I’m taking in a lot of vids on endurance training now, and concentrating on building aerobic/endurance capacity so I can get to 35k to go (the final climb) in decent shape.

[@dhldt1021]

I'm 47 and rarely get out of first gear. Maybe once a week I go a bit faster, other wise it's pretty slow for me most of the week.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Awesome 👏 very inspirational when I read comments like this

[@78KMR]

You are the absolute best Scott!...i enjoy your videos so much...i have learned a boat load from you...i could listen to you speak for hours...please dont change!...the cussing that you incorporate into your discussions is great for a laugh and a breath of fresh air😂...it keeps the conversations less "stuffy"... Thank you for this video...i am guilty of riding in the "swearing" zone for all my rides because i thought i had to go big or go home...i now know better and will now implement zone 2. Keep up the great work coach ! Sincerely, your biggest fan😊

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks so much. This is defo why I share my knowledge and experience. I really do love helping people 👍👍👍👍

[@donschlegel1972]

Richmond, BC Vancouver Canada thank you so much for your experience you’re sharing

[@Avianthro]

This is a great insight Coach, that folks stuck in ego mode are using their power meters to play I'm-better-than-you or at least better-than-somebody games to keep themselves motivated. We all get caught up in games like that, but they are not conducive to good training. I think you're absolutely right that the HR monitor is the gizmo to use for setting our "zonology" since the info it gives is a total picture of all our stressors. The other great way to use HR is as part of your morning recovery-status-checklist...make sure your morning rest rate's not trending up too much...not yet recovered + other stressors? I think too that the power meter still has an extremely valuable role: Use it as your intensity X duration (integral P(t)dt if you're into math) total energy-used meter. For that, it's a beautiful thing, a much more precise-scientific way to know just how hard you trained on a session so you can see it you've overloaded properly (enough, but not too much). Unlike runners, except when they're on hilly terrain, the cyclist's power output is lot more unsteady and nonlinear, (more aerodynamic drag) making it more challenging to assess a session's total energy I X T, but the power meter solves that. There's also still the really "old school" crowd out here...folks like me who don't really want to mess with any gizmos and don't even have a smart phone. For us, it's perceived level of effort for our "zonology", doing the best we can to read our bodies, and just counting our distance for assessing I X T, with an assumption that high intensity is about twice the power, twice the energy used per km to tailor our distances for days with high-intensity effort so that we keep our I X T total energy does where we want it. Above all, for all of us, gizmo folks or stone age folks, we must never forget that R word: Recovery! No training progress without it. Learn to read your body's signs and be sure you recover enough, but not too much between training (overloading) sessions.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Awesome comment - I really respect the time you have taken. Thank you 🙏

[@Avianthro]

@@BulletproofCycling You're welcome Coach, happy to have such a nice compliment from you!

[@omegaplans]

Hello from Tennessee, USA

[@mikezuraw6420]

I appreciate the details on how to get the FTHR and then what to do with it once I know it. I have been using the 220-age to get max HR but was planning a max heart rate test based on a later video you put out. I like this idea of my HR at the end of an FTP test which I am familiar with. I will do my next FTP test starting at 10W higher as you suggested and then hang on until 20 minutes is up.

[@richardwilson2118]

Hi Coach, a bit late catching this video, more great information again thanks.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks Richard 👍

[@illustrationmaking]

This is the simple and solid info I’ve been looking for for sooooo long. Thank you so much coach. Oh….and go ENFP’s :D

[@BulletproofCycling]

😂👍👍👍👍

[@gerrysecure5874]

Up to threshold heartrate goes very linear to power for practically all people. Some have a hr-deflechtion near threshhold (conconi deflection) others (like me) have a linear go up to vo2max. Therefore the Karvonen Formula (HR Reserve) is useful for practically all people. HR_z2_min = HR_Rest + (HR_ftp - HR_Rest) * 0.65 HR_z2_max = HR_Rest + (HR_ftp - HR_Rest) * 0.75 Note: If you don't know HR_ftp use 0.89 * HR_Max as estimate. Also, starting a session in the middle of the zone should let you ride the session without drifting out of zone. If circumstances cause elevated HR without changing metabolism, e.g. hot temperature, high elevation etc (not fatigue) allow drift go a few bpm above HR_z2_max.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you - I share this info in Skool community but I tend to use 0.92 * HR_Max for estimate of FTHr if folks don’t know it start with. Thanks for engaging 👍

[@semiephemeral9]

@@BulletproofCycling is the HR_Max from the 220-age calc Coach? Or from a max test? Your channel is great!

[@emailForDye]

As a seasoned listener, I definitely didn’t catch all the good stuff during catch up. I’ll have to have another listen. I wonder if you’ll ever release the audio to typical podcast channels. I know some of the stuff is visually supported, but times like these it would be nice to just listen, like shutting off power measurements from the display.

[@BulletproofCycling]

This is something I would definitely like to do. Should be easy to add an intro and put audio in a podcast platform 👍

[@wraith8323]

Late to the party having just found the channel, but appreciative engagement bump anyway 🤗

[@BulletproofCycling]

Welcome aboard

[@macklewis4882]

Thanks!

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍

[@mikeainsworth4504]

Another excellent video Scott. Thank you. I generally ride my endurance rides to heart rate (the Garmin screen just shows HR data and time and it beeps at me every 10 minutes as a prompt to drink and/or eat). This is largely because I do not have a power meter on my outdoor bikes so riding to power is restricted to workouts on the turbo. However, the zones have always been a bit of a guess based on another guess of Max HR. I have a lowish resting HR (low 40s). After this video I have reset my zones based on the mean average of this year's Top 20 Peak 20 as shown on my TrainingPeaks account and I'll see how that goes. I remember that I owe you an update on my progress since rehab for my recent diagnosis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Scott. Some interesting stuff from that and, for me, some surprising workouts that seem to be having an effect. I'll try to find the time/energy to drop you a note on Facebook.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks for sharing Mike 👍👍👍👍

[@sysosyso4247]

Haha love your humour mate. Great video really informative 👏 👍 👌 thanks very much

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍👍👍👍

[@deanmilne6744]

Heart rate keeps you honest l! Truth is without it we're all going too hard

[@TiagoM83]

You are so funny coach and also cover a lot of knowledge 🚲🔥

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thank you 🙏

[@michaelsingh843]

Hi Couch great video! Im gonna thumb suck a zone 2 effort as being able to have a conversation but not to talk comfortably

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍👍👍👍👍

[@HopyHop1]

My problem with pacing by heart rate is that if I cycle in my zone 2 power the heart rate takes about 90 minutes to reach the zone 2 range.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Sounds like the power needed upping 👍👍👍👍

[@gerrysecure5874]

I doubt you have your zones (Pwr & HR) right. And if you pace by HR you dont control speed by power except to avoid spikes. So your sentece makes no sense. After warm up I raise power until my HR is in the middle of zone. Then I keep the power until my HR drifts into next zone. The HR goal may vary a bit from day to day depending on fatigue, heat, elevation etc. The power is a control variable, not a steering variable. I already know from my WarmUp HR/Power ratio if it is going to be a good day or a maintenance day.

[@HopyHop1]

@@gerrysecure5874 I don't pace by heart rate because I often go on rides over 40 miles long. I have a short warm up then hold low to mid endurance zone power at the start of the ride. If I pace by heart rate I'll be generating too much power at the start of the ride and be at a greater risk of fatiguing while being 20 miles or more away from home. I'll usually raise my heart rate to my endurance zone on the way back home which results in power being at a high endurance to mid tempo range. If I were to pace by heart rate I'd end up generating more power at the start of the ride and less on the way back. I'd rather err on the side of caution for rides exceeding 40 miles when it comes to pacing. That being said, the weather is too cold for my taste this time of year (the Philadelphia area) so I do almost all my cycling on a trainer in late fall and winter months. I suppose I could now start experimenting with heart rate pacing without concern about fatigue while far from home.

[@glenborch8231]

Thanks. I been using HR for a few year's for running, and the watch and chest strap measures, Lactate Threshold. For 20minutes and even an hour, I do sustain higher than this. As far as maximum HR is concerned, as I've gotten fitter, it's slightly lowered, but I've not used what I describe as the Adrenaline Kick in a while (it hurts, and is often when I get niggles). Cycling, All those figures are lower, and I simply can't hit or sustain those HR values yet, and so the 20minute rule sound's doable. I do wonder if I should ignore the watches Lactate Threshold, and instead, use this rule instead. As you have said Heat significantly effects HR, but also power when too hot or cold( it goes down!). Thanks again!

[@BulletproofCycling]

Thanks for sharing Glen 👍👍👍👍👍

[@matlindell5022]

Done and dusted!💪75 mn @upper zone 2 only based on heart rate monitor.No focking power on the screen😂🤣so cool actually 👍🤩

[@BulletproofCycling]

Excellent 👌

[@Greg.Sutton]

Coach...... question? I did a outdoor ride this year that gave me a 20min HR of 180bpm (48yo) - this was my highest 20min HR number this year. It was 2 months ago on a proper pyrneees climb (Hautacam). If i use your table and calculate out my own HR zones it gives me:- z1 190bpm This right to build my Z2 training off? So i basically ride in the middle of 123-149bpm for Z2 using only HR and this then sets my normalized power for that range.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Check out the test I share in Facebook group. This gives you a target number.👍👍

[@PeterSteward]

Great videos and info but. Can you do the 12 weeks without a power meter? Don't have one they cost way too much. Also don't have an indoors trainer, only ride on the road with a heart rate monitor.

[@BulletproofCycling]

Of course Peter 👍👍👍

[@simonb6058]

Hi, great content as always. I enjoyed watching live last night. I have recalculated my zones based on my 20 min FTHr and they look good on paper. Then I rewatched and picked up at 16:26 you said use 20 min peak Hr. For some reason I used my average for that period. My peak is a few beats higher. Is it defo the peak or average we should be using? I might be getting confused with LTHR. It's defo more complicated than the energy crisis, only the mother in law is higher lol

[@mille1000boy]

Also interested in the answer to this, not sure whether I should be using my average or peak HR to calculate my HR threshold?

[@BulletproofCycling]

😂😂😂😂 love it

[@keith7411]

Hey Scott, another great vid. Can you confirm how to reduce heart rate drift in zone 2 workouts, and then confirm if sitting on the your bike on a trainer is less comfortable at lower watts and if so what can be done about that too?

[@joerenner8334]

You don't need coach to confirm that at lower watts, the trainer is 100 tjmes more boring and your ass gets 1000 times more sore! Everyone on here will confirm!

[@BulletproofCycling]

As Joe stated Keith. Just ease back the intensity. Also when going slower try and keep cadence similar to normal range. Often folks keep gearing the same and spin at lower cadence - this can alter pelvic position and make saddle feel less comfy. You are also likely to stay in similar position longer so try and alter your grip position 👍👍👍

[@keith7411]

@@BulletproofCycling Perfect, thanks both Joe and Scott for the info, will try to keep Cadence up and move hands round a bit more! Have actually changed my seat with great benefit also.

[@CR3DT]

Coach, what is the best way to get your 20 min heart rate? At what level of effort, or how hard do you ride to get this value? Should have my Garmin do an FTP test indoors and take it from there? (honestly I havent done an FTP test before)

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yep use your FTP test - this will give you a good starting point. If you have a 20 min hill section or even flat into uphill section of road with no interruptions then use that 👍👍👍

[@highpike]

Omg Scott my z2 is way too high at 134-143. 180max, 50 resting, 155FTHR. I based mine on HRR which I’ve used for years. So I’ve been doing lots of z2….I thought. So I’ve been sweating not singing 😂

[@highpike]

Panic over. Just did a new fitness test. FTHR is 163 😄

[@stijnb2645]

Great stuff coach! I am up for the challenge ;-). My goal is to increase power at those Zone2 HR values. But what is the best approach for this? I am planning a big december month of 15h Z2 riding. Or should I lower the time per week and go for the upper zone 2 HR as you described in your video in the test?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Just aim to discipline yourself in the zone 2 HR and keep measuring your power output. Don’t be afraid of pushing one shorter vo2 max session a week 👍

[@MrScott168]

I did a 30 min HR test inside and a 30 minute HR test Outside today. I haven't done a ftp test in some time but I have it figure to be 314 from my last ramp test. I figured my FTHR to be around 172 from my 20min avg from past rides. My NP for the inside ride was 255 watts and my NP for the outside ride was 297 watts with a avg HR at 134 for both. I was surprised with how high both of those were. Is my FTHR is too high or my ftp is too low or I just have a high zone 2?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Lots of variables here Scott. Very interesting numbers though. I would’ve happy to reply via email as I could explain things in video response better - no fee etc - just something I do when something grabs my attention 👍👍

[@waynesmith4589]

A really great video Scott , off to do a Z2 right now 😅

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@erikvloothuis1020]

Why are the zones of joe friel and garmin for FTHR. Different than yours? % of FTHR Zone 1 65 - 80% Zone 2 80 - 89% Zone 3 89 - 95% Zone 4 95 - 100% Zone 5 100% - max hr

[@BulletproofCycling]

I can show you many different ranges. I explained in longer podcast how I use 83% to Xmas then change to wider range at zone 2 and narrower range at threshold. This works great. My 5 zone range for FTHr is pretty standard in training when using apps to create zones. You will not be far out using either. 👍

[@LittleNinjah]

Thought you may mention HRV, training to that when its high and adapting to when it's low can also offer progress to training. Good session though, certainly not knocking it. Thank You.

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍👍👍👍

[@allcoherent]

Is the 20 minute heart rate the average or the max over that period?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Average

[@allcoherent]

Thank you!

[@rrluthi1]

Zone 2 between 300 & 400 watts?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Yep - I have seen it and have named a few in my q and a chats 👍👍👍👍

[@christopherpburk]

My couch is going to miss me

[@BulletproofCycling]

👍

[@totallymeaningless]

😂 you crack me up

[@douglasbooth6836]

Your body works of stress connected to heart rate. It doesn’t know whst power its putting out.

[@yisraels4555]

Ride an hour outside without running into road furniture? Wow I would like to ride outside for a minute without running into some sort of obstacle. My road riding resembles cyclocross

[@BulletproofCycling]

Soz - I used live for 20 years very close to London and it was crazy cycling conditions when I commuted. I am very lucky to be back in Scotland and have the luxury of open countryside and mountains all around. Thanks for engaging in content though. I really appreciate it

[@jc10747]

68% of what? Max HR? Sick HR? Point where you start panting?

[@BulletproofCycling]

Your threshold or FTHr

[@bitelogger]

I knew you were Scottish.