ICC vs RCW: Making Sense of the Split | Cultish

[@SPRIZZYSPROW]

Cultish covered the ICC???? Wow!!! Thank you!!!! Thank God!!

[@MultiRocknroll123]

I got tied in with the ICC for a few months while in college. Was definitely a life draining thing to be a part of

[@ExposingtheCults]

Thanks for having us on! There will be more to come!

[@christrescuedme2182]

You may be interested in my book on the Stone/Campbell movement that I was in for over 30+years until the Lord saved me.

[@ExposingtheCults]

​@@christrescuedme2182 I'll definitely check this out. We are not only covering the Stone / Campbell movement, we are also covering newer cults that are on the rise. Cults like Shincheonji or the World Mission Society Church of God, etc.

[@christrescuedme2182]

@@WhosWho-rg7fd The Stone/Campbell Restoration movement is the root of the Crossroads Boston Movement. But surely you knew that!! If not, then you definitely need to read my book.

[@christrescuedme2182]

@@WhosWho-rg7fd What's the title?

[@A-uz3uj]

Thank you for covering this, I havnt watched it yet but I recently left the ICC after seeing many problems and abuses and tried to address it but was not listened to

[@xray342radio]

Praise God you left! People have been trying to reform this system from the inside for well over half a century to no avail, so don't feel defeated. Even the "lukewarm" ICOC can't be reformed at this point.

[@whenascammercalls247]

​@xray342radio Actually I would say one ICC and RCW arr the Lukewarm churches as the verse where this term is used was only against a money focused group. It was never used to describe a church that had 'lost it's first love'

[@A-uz3uj]

@@xray342radio thank you, possibly surprisingly i discovered the Orthodox Church which I never knew existed all the years I was in CoC type church’s and so far it has brought me more peace, growing closer to God and actually repenting more than before so I feel grateful

[@bludrayn]

Can I ask you what is was they were doing that was abusive ?

[@whenascammercalls247]

@bludrayn Too many things to list here but in short, SA and ChildA are at least two of them. Not to mention all the spiritual, mental and financial abuse!

[@TrueDisciple115]

Excellent video, I’m so excited to see the other video on their movement as a whole. I’m so thankful that a large Christian channel is finally speaking against the ICC. Praise the Lord.

[@christrescuedme2182]

Yes! This expose' is WAY overdue! Thank God He is finally raising up more men to join in the fight against this fatally flawed sacramental system of salvation. By God's grace, I've been fighting against it for decades now.

[@xray342radio]

@@christrescuedme2182 I've heard your podcast with Jeremiah Nortier. Praise God He's brought you (and me) out! Speaking of sacramentalism, the ICOC/ICC/RCW added a "sacrament of confession" in a sense that one must confess all their sins to one's discipler.

[@christrescuedme2182]

@@xray342radio So glad to hear you escaped by God's grace too! They always add more to faith than just faith in Christ. So naturally their "applications" of salvation would continue to evolve, for that is the natural consequence of their self-salvation-sacramental system that retains Rome's two foundational pillars (man's autonomous freewill and universal atonement). Jeremiah Nortier and I have another interview coming up for my new book release....Christ Rescued the Thief's Testimony from the "Church of Christ"....where I hope to further elaborate on the CoC's "new terms" of salvation. I hope to hear from you there soon, Lord willing! Blessings!

[@swahat1713]

Thankful for all the work God has used you for in this area too brother! When people watch these videos they’ll get a solid overview, but when they want more in-depth coverage I’m sure your channel will come up in their searches. Praying for you and your ministry always

[@TrueDisciple115]

@@swahat1713 thank you, it means a lot!

[@jacoblabaniegos69]

As an ex-ICC member, i am so glad that this group is getting called out by bigger channels so more people are aware of them. I just pray for those in the ICC/RCW to actually accept these criticisms

[@bludrayn]

When you were there, what did you find wrong about the church ? Could you explain biblically without speaking feelings?

[@jacoblabaniegos69]

@bludrayn Biblically speaking, the "First Principles" studies (a set of pre-scripted Bible studies that one needs to go through in order to validate their baptism/salvation) are not only contradictory to the Bible, but also to itself. There are a lot of these contractions, but I believe the biggest one would be "Disciple's Baptism". The "Discipleship" study (a part of the First Principle studies) teaches that Christian=Disciple=Saved, and that only Disciples can be candidates that merit/earn their baptism. Later on in the "Light and Darkness" or "New Testament Conversion" study, it is taught that you are saved at the point of water baptism, granted it's done in full immersion as a conscious person. If we are consistent with these studies, then you have to become a disciple (saved Christian) before you can merit (earn) your baptism (salvation). It contradicts itself, and there is no decent defense for it. As for the church itself, there are several biblical issues. Man-made traditions are put above the Word of God (such as giving under compulsion/need with your tithing), lack of unity (if you ask 10 different "disciples" if the Bible church fell away and this was the only church that restored it, you will get different answers. By their own standards, their own church wouldn't be considered saved because of this), mandatory "discipler" (although the word "Disciple" is never used in the epistles, since we are supposed to be Disciples of Christ and not each other. Also see 1 Corinthians 1:12-13), and overall inconsistent teachings from the church depending on certain circumstances (for example, different leaders in the ICC will have different opinions on if the RCW are saved or not). In short, they preach false doctrine and hold man-made traditions over the Word of God

[@jacoblabaniegos69]

@@bludrayn Biblically speaking, the "First Principles" studies (a set of pre-scripted Bible studies that one needs to go through in order to validate their baptism/salvation) are not only contradictory to the Bible, but also to itself. There are a lot of these contractions, but I believe the biggest one would be "Disciple's Baptism". The "Discipleship" study (a part of the First Principle studies) teaches that Christian=Disciple=Saved, and that only Disciples can be candidates that merit/earn their baptism. Later on in the "Light and Darkness" or "New Testament Conversion" study, it is taught that you are saved at the point of water baptism, granted it's done in full immersion as a conscious person. If we are consistent with these studies, then you have to become a disciple (saved Christian) before you can merit (earn) your baptism (salvation). It contradicts itself, and there is no decent defense for it. As for the church itself, there are several biblical issues. Man-made traditions are put above the Word of God (such as giving under compulsion/need with your tithing), lack of unity (if you ask 10 different "disciples" if the Bible church fell away and this was the only church that restored it, you will get different answers. By their own standards, their own church wouldn't be considered saved because of this), mandatory "discipler" (although the word "Disciple" is never used in the epistles, since we are supposed to be Disciples of Christ and not each other. Also see 1 Corinthians 1:12-13), and overall inconsistent teachings from the church depending on certain circumstances (for example, different leaders in the ICC will have different opinions on if the RCW are saved or not). In short, they preach false doctrine and hold man-made traditions over the Word of God

[@drake_leo2152]

@@bludrayn you deny every biblical answer and rebuttal

[@CCR-ew6ke]

Great video thanks Cultish for covering this. I'm so glad to hear Coltin speak about the ICC. It's so true how the ICOC and ICC version of discipleship replaces the role, ministry, and leading of the Holy Spirit. First John 2:20-27 and I Cor 1 and 2 are just a few and any good cross reference Bible will anyone from there to know how the Holy Spirit leads us. For young Christians in the ICC, RCW and ICOC for that matter I hope they have the chance and the freedom to grow in the grace of God and remember salvation is not by works, not by discipleship, and not by leadership that usurps the authority of Christ, who is Head of the body, Jesus' fellowship.

[@christinpopculture]

Here are some more passages about the Holy Spirit you may like 🙏 John 14:16 I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17 that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you. 26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. John 15:5 I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. (Reference Galatians 5:22-23) John 16:7 But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.

[@CCR-ew6ke]

@@christinpopculture yeah these are some of the scriptures I read and studied. Over all the penalty for sin is paid by Jesus Christ and since the cross every believer can receive and be filled, led, by the Holy Spirit.

[@Garrison1971]

God bless you gentlemen for even having these discussions

[@druanneglascott5299]

Woww, this took me on a trip down memory lane! I was in the ICOC way back in 1989 when i attended college in NYC. Kip McKean was incredibly fiery and his preaching style was totally imitated by all of the ‘zone leaders’, etc. All the buzzwords came flooding back, and i am so grateful that the Lord saved me out of this awful, burdensome movement.

[@itsmyparadise6260]

Wow i can't believe the ICC made it to this channel! I recently left the ICC due to doctrinal differences. They are a faith through works church and the bible in particular Jesus and Paul made it clear through many scriptures that Faith alone in Christ justifies you. Even though i've moved on to another church that aligns more with my faith journey they consider me a "fallaway". I got offended but disciples were called "Christians" as a dig and so i will be a PROUD Fallaway from ICC in Jesus name!

[@christrescuedme2182]

Looking so forward to Campbellism (the root of ICC) being exposed next week!!

[@GospelSaves]

Thank you!

[@xray342radio]

Discipling in the ICOC/ICC/RCW replaces the role of the Holy Spirit with a discipler or leader. 🚩🚩🚩

[@kehaulani1467]

So, Restoration Church of the 1800's split into Church of Christ in that same century, which split into International Church of Christ, in 1979, which split into International Christian Church in 2007 and back into Restoration Church this year. The Restoration Church of the 1800's split from Protestantism, which split from Catholicism. These groups are all rooted in Catholicism, which originated as a blend of biblical principles and paganism and will be uprooted (Matthew 15:13). It's time true believers graft ourselves into the Tended Olive Tree of Romans 10 and 11, and leave these groups altogether. Thanks for having Coltin Rohn on to clarify the deceit of the RCW letter and giving him the opportunity to share his biblical convictions, stance and his experience with the ICC. He is a true believer, warrior, ambassador of and for Christ.

[@j.scottjennings6498]

I was a member of ICOC 25 Years ago and actually hung out with Henry Krete

[@santiagoduh8166]

Soooooo……. What’s the point of?

[@AmericanAddictions-d9o]

Ron “da cleaner” Harding-drives

[@ReformedStudent1689]

God bless, Apologia!

[@rogertayloRRR]

Great vid

[@BT-zh9bq]

commenting for the algorithm

[@ryanhart3159]

I totally agree that their doctrine is extremely dangerous in many ways!!!! 1) water baptism is when you get the Holy Spirit??? Therefore if one is not baptized they are NOT saved. 2) You can lose your Salvation???? 3) False gospel because they say you must be baptized, whereas The Bible teaches by God’s grace, through Faith, in Christ alone!!! (( their teaching Paul says they are damned))🙏❤️. 4) Do not believe in original sin????? Stay away!!!!

[@xray342radio]

@@ryanhart3159 This is part of the story. You’ve just described the Churches of Christ. The ICOC/ICC/RCW adds the stipulation that a lost person must become a Disciple before they’re a candidate for baptism to become saved. Confusing? Yes! Steve will cover this in the next two episodes.

[@razorsgalaxy777]

I agree with Coltin, thus the reason I never went back. Super culty and they exploit college kids to the max. Very sinful and disgusting. I would like to share what the scriptures states about baptism, please refer to these scriptures. Hope it helps understand the meaning of baptism better Mark 16:15-16, Acts 2:38-39, John 3:3,5 Romans 6:3-4, 1Galatians 3:26-27, Acts 8:12-13 Matthew 28:19-20, 1 Peter3:18-22 Baptism is a command from Jesus Christ, (letters in Red) and it symbolizes a believer's transformation and commitment to living a Christ-centered life. God Bless.

[@jamesjuarez6211]

This was not on my 2024 bingo card

[@drake_leo2152]

It was on mine

[@jamesjuarez6211]

@ glad they’re getting exposed

[@whenascammercalls247]

41:20 "let's get behind the Moreno's and support THEM!"??? Where's God in that sentence? It's just another strengthening of man made leadership!

[@WhosWho-rg7fd]

John MacArthur in his study bible notes says that the Jethro model is actually a great leadership model. The problem with the ICC, they made the mistake of thinking the authority came along with it, the authority that Rohn is referring to.

[@hansm.picazo2550]

Can you clarify this?

[@WhosWho-rg7fd]

@hansm.picazo2550 Yes. The MacArthur part of my comment can be verified in his study notes. The second part of my comment regarding the ICC is my opinion based on how the top leaders have implemented it in their churches. The Jethro model is often confused with a pyramid structure of leadership. That is a misconception. They're nothing alike. Similar but drastically different. The Jethro model has no beneficiary at the top. The pyramid model does. Hence the phrase "pyramid scheme"

[@WhosWho-rg7fd]

I did but KZbin deletes it ​@@hansm.picazo2550

[@hansm.picazo2550]

Do you think they will burn out? I feel like they will.

[@BT-zh9bq]

hopefully one day

[@xray342radio]

In one sense, the current ICOC is the “burned out” version of where the ICC post-split appears to be headed if the RCW keeps their momentum. That doesn’t mean that the ICOC is healthy. No ICOC congregation or former ICOC congregation has formally repudiated and rejected “First Principles” as both a false gospel and thought reform system.

[@iron_vicuna6784]

In arguing against the ICC's polity, they just argued for an episcopate (3 fold ministry)

[@xray342radio]

Their strict discipling hierarchy turns it into an episcopate by necessity.

[@whenascammercalls247]

Wowwwww the arrogance to say that members in 2003 "ran away..." and "...deserted the 'army of God!" Is highly offensive!! I didn't desert the army of God! I left a false church that used scriptures to manipulate members in the false belief we were serving God!

[@hansm.picazo2550]

42:11 preach bro 😂

[@christinpopculture]

Does Coltin naturally talk like this or is he just talking like this because he's in teaching mode explaining his group's beliefs?

[@hansm.picazo2550]

I think it's just because he's in teaching mode. He led for over a decade in the church.

[@alphacompany3883]

I could never stand Coltin's preaching. He along with all the other dumb leaders were imitating Kip's style. Coltin was so certain of the scriptures then and even now as an Anabaptist... Coltin's so certain of that faith expression being The Way (as taught by David Bercot).

[@xray342radio]

I can tell he's de-Kip-ifying when he teaches now. Honestly, it takes years and boatloads of God's unmerited grace to undo the damage of the ICOC/ICC/RCW system in all the areas in one's life.

[@JustinKuleck-n1h]

Donald J Trump is the Good Shepherd!! Let us all bend the knee and declare Trump as our Savior and King!!

[@TradesRecorded]

bro😂

[@Yesica1993]

Give the time stamp where anyone's talking about Donald Trump in this video.

[@HartyBiker]

@@JustinKuleck-n1h that's bait 👆

[@tenabraslux]

Nice Don't forget his messenger Vance...😂😂

[@CCR-ew6ke]

That's kinda dumb since no one in this video ever said anything like that. Voters can have enthusiasm for their candidate but that's not worship. Joking, yeah I can see that but a dumb one at that.