INTP Relationship Problems 1 -- Definition as Contract (INTP)

It's weird the way examples pop up when you need them. An example of "definition-ing" in practice, and not in a kind way: www.gutenberg....
INFP 5s seem to do something similar (more about the morality of what you believe, like a code of honor you uphold, than just cold, narrow consistency with anything), so maybe this is more of an Enneagram or Si thing than an INTP thing.
ENTPs perform something similar, but they seem less interested in upholding the contract and more interested in how you feel/respond in situations screwing with that contract. ENTPs build things up then shake them to death to figure out what's real; INTPs monitor trends for years and mark/research anomalies to figure out what's fake. Same search, different methods.
When an INTP doublechecks your definition of something, you can be sure they're silently observing and judging your behavior against your self-set definition (even if they never say anything about it).

[@Skimmerlit]

My novelette is available. Picking it up and leaving a positive review would be a tremendous help to me. Thank you. Novelette: www.amazon.com/dp/B09XL1VWJW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2O9IAGTS3FCV2&keywords=skimmerlit+book&qid=1649553882&sprefix=skimmerlit+book%2Caps%2C132&sr=8-1

[@savvageorge]

Never even realised this was a thing about myself but looking back at relationships I do seem to accept 99% of things that happen to me but the 1 thing I can never accept is inconsistency.

[@reenel3718]

I was having doubts on whether I was an ENTP or INTP and knowing more and more about functions wasn’t enough, because I’d always find a way to make the combinations make sense for the way I process, think and behave. After realizing this, I decided to observe how ENTP and INTP describe others and themselves, how they work but specifically the way they describe it. I started with this video. I seriously wasn’t expecting this much accuracy. The whole talk was extremely precise and actually, made me acknowledge some of the reasons why I was acting the way I do in relationships. The “definition as contract” has always been the obvious thing to do when I estimated that someone could be a good long-term partner. I’d do it naturally, but when this person would not see value in it, I’d just fall back and let go. It’s like : if you can’t see the value in this, then you probably won’t be able to actually be consistent anyway. Thus, I don’t need to define anymore, and I don’t mind staying friends or whatever we become. (not that good at english so I might have messed up at being clear at some points but never mind)

[@reenel3718]

That long text basically means “thank you”

[@Skimmerlit]

I appreciate your insight and explanation. The more input and data I have, the better I feel about sharing my thoughts-I sometimes worry I’m talking out of my ass. Big thanks

[@giomar89]

This is incredibly spot on. I can tolerate/adapt to almost anything, except internal inconsistency. If you tell me you value P but your actions are -P, we have nothing to share. Btw, I understand that humans (myself included) are contradictory by default. So when I say I don’t tolerate inconsistency, all I mean is that, if it happens, acknowledge it and rectify it. And as convince me you’re deadly set on rectifying it

[@sylviaowega3839]

This is so accurate being an INTP girl married to an INTJ male. Our relationship has been mostly good, but have had some very turbulent and tense moment due to inconsistencies in his logic, and having certain of my principles being violated. Thankfully, he has learned to understand me better and gotten used to my quirkiness and mega intense Ti.

[@Sciolet]

Good stuff! This is fascinating, but at least from a (relatively) mature INTP perspective, I think this lacks the gradual Ne awareness that relationships are dynamic and these “golden standards” need to be updated carefully, regularly and collaboratively. Not even due to fickleness, but simply changing life circumstances and personal growth. I agree that this is something INTPs need to learn but once you got it, it’s so obvious. It’s just like updating your own architecture in order to refine it. The next danger then lies in taking all the responsibility for these updates on yourself, buuut that’s probably a different conversation.

[@Skimmerlit]

The “discuss and update” part was meant to cover that, and this video’s directed more at people confused with INTPs than to ourselves.

[@zak3744]

Sorry, I know this is a bit of an old comment! But I was just listening to this video and wanted to share a thought on your comment. I think I would say that to me it seems kind of obvious that relationships are unavoidably dynamic and ever in flux. But I don't think that means it's impossible to make lasting promises/contracts, instead it means that any unconditional promises or contracts you make are really, really serious commitments. Massive promises! It's a commitment to do that thing even knowing that things will inevitably change, you just can't predict how. And it's a commitment to yourself, to your own integrity to wilfully keep that promise, as much as it is to the other person. It's a scary thing to do in a lot of ways! So the times I have run afoul of misunderstandings is more often where someone else has agreed to something (a genuine, honest commitment) but then later on says: "But that was then. I didn't consider that X would change when I said it." Whereas I always take account that X (or Y, or Z) might change and so I won't make a commitment in the first place if I'm not intending to keep it under pretty much any circumstances. Which means maybe I make less promises, but the ones I make I really mean. If I am not sure I can commit to something under any circumstance I'll say "I'm not sure I can promise that, but I really hope so" or something along those lines. And the misunderstandings come when I expect other people to do the same but it turns out they look at commitments as more transitory or conditional. It's too late by the point that becomes apparent of course!

[@Ashley-yy3de]

As an INFP, It’s honestly pretty shocking how different peoples values can be. I always knew consistency and keeping promises were important but i never knew it was front of mind for some people. I’ll admit I am not consistent. I show up late, i cancel last minute if I’m not feeling it, and I am kinda in the clouds in general. I tend to assume other people are as chill and unbothered as I am, but today I learned that some people are in fact very bothered lol. When people can’t show up or are inconsistent, I am pretty empathetic and think to not take it personally because of my xyz reasons for doing the same. I really appreciate this post because it really helped me de-center myself and moving forward I’ll be more aware of these things

[@LittleMew133]

I'm okay if you apply the same standard across the board. But it pisses me off when people apply a very strict standard to others, but at the exact same time, a very VERY loose, borderline no morals to oneself. Like bruh, the double standard is infuriating.

[@antonboldsword3770]

Absolutely correct. I am INTP 5w4, 584 Sx/So. Every bit of this is completely accurate. People have a chance to have a choice of what kind of relationship we will have and lay out the terms...but the minute you show a pattern that you don't appreciate those terms - YOU have broken the contract and I no longer owe you shit based on what we previously agreed to. We must come to a new understanding, if I'm still willing to go there at all, or You deserve no further consideration from me. I am the most open-minded, reasonable person there is... don't make promises you don't intend to keep, no one forced you to make them in the first place.

[@adriantomole1019]

Intp 5w4 583 sx/sp

[@andreaoyarce9558]

I had meet 3 intp n my life they're common patterns n found n 3 of them, but also I found some differences too. Intp 1: isolated, social anxiety, bc he describes how he felt weird about interacting with ppl. Very cold image as if he wasn't a human. No much facial expression, no shows of emotion of excitement happiness... but really easy to get anger and have no sense of empathy for others.... Intp 2: typical of a stereotypical intp, but this time good ppls skills, not his favorites but he learned how to develop it. Capable to manage disagreement, listen, empathizing and and focus n work n problem solving and being able to move on and remind normal instead to resentful or withdrawn. Intp 3: a bit if mix of both 1 and 2, ppl skills seemed more developed but also not able to handle disagreements as #2, but not anger as #1, but tendency of withdrawals.

[@funournour9585]

Your video made me realize how important consistency can be to some people, and how not holding to commitments could destroy relationships/friendships, when its something I usually probably dont pay enough attention to. Same for defining terms it is something I am usually bad at and definitly gotta work on. So I was able to learn about that from you, and aswell learn more about the intps and how they think about those things, so thanks.

[@sylviaowega3839]

A very accurate and informative video regarding us INTP’s. Ty In addition, some of my longest lasting and consistent friends are in fact with my fellow INTP’s. 💡

[@hagalathekido]

I think intp just really hate hypocrisy

[@user-kl6qd8jd6r]

Make me remember the time when I got angry and leave the class after 1 hours of waiting with no explanation, lol. But seriously, the point about falling the contract is that it show clearly not only inconsistent and short-sighted or sly the violator is. After all, I really don’t want to spend the rest of my life with someone that under some circumstances thinks stabbing me is justifiable.

[@keithgillen5144]

I have been exploring this stuff with a grain of salt for a little over a year, I find most of it to be accurate, but your videos are giving me seriously good insight to understand what I am really doing. Thank you, you are a king for putting this out here and being able to articulate it.

[@jusba94]

After listening to you, I noticed I have some bad or immature habits with this defining process. When I have communication problems with somone and I bring it up and ask them. If they don't seem to think there are issues or downplay it, I will leave it at that and consider communication to not be my responsibility. I even take it as pass for me to be unclear if I want to.

[@Skimmerlit]

How do you overcome those issues at that point? I have a long buffer for most things, but specific or repeated problems (when someone’s dismissing me) set me off between 2-4 weeks. I swallow most problems and cater to others most of the time, so when someone I love shivs me somewhere I’m sensitive then causes me grief, I won’t take it. You can’t and shouldn’t expect anyone to change.

[@jusba94]

@@Skimmerlit I don't think all boundaries are set with this process. I've achieved solid boundaries around most things I'm sensitive with. Some with a process like this and some with other means. Me being unclear with communication myself, I'm baiting them to see the issue and for them bring it up. Then we can resume the defining that was last time dismissed as not being an issue. This seems a little bitchy now that I wrote this down, but this has worked before. I want them to experience the need to define instead of me forcing this process down their throats.

[@Skimmerlit]

I appreciate the answer. I’m glad that works for others, but I dislike when people expect me to read their mind, so I work not to expect the same. Indirectness confuses and frustrates me. I’d rather have the conflict and resolve the problem or move on. Patience is important, but I’ve found it’s most important for sorting out emotions before a conversation, not as the means of conversation. Edit: For me, anyway.

[@entjfemme7032]

@@Skimmerlit Actually, people change all the time. For NTs, the logic and reasons matter. People change their thinking all the time if you can prove to them that they can achieve a better outcome if they modify behavior. As you mature, you should naturally want better. Values are harder to change because our emotions seemed to be intertwined. Thoughts are brittle and thin and can easily break with pressure. Values and emotions are like honey, slow to move and very sticky. That’s why Fe doms can command loyalty longer than Te doms . Fe doms make people feel better and are more easily forgiven for their faults. Te doms are as good as their last success. But I don’t mind having to prove myself because I always want to get better. I only want loyalty from others if they think I can deliver. I don’t like pity. But I want any criticism to be fair. Meaning, I want to be judged as my whole self.

[@Skimmerlit]

That's one of the reasons I made that ENTJ video. People see anything less than success and assume an ENTJ is mean or defective. That isn't the case. With INTPs, the longer and more consistent (in terms of "this person is good") the file, the more understanding we are. Cataloguing moments across years builds a stronger positive image. That's one of the reasons you'll see people dragging INTPs through the mud and wonder why they're putting up with them--their file on the person must be *stellar.* That doesn't mean *I'm* willing to accept some things, especially when those things happen with dismissal and nastiness over too long a period, but that happens only with SOME people SOME of the time. If someone can't even discuss something, what's the point of being with them?

[@Dummy257]

[INTPs don't have relationships meme]

[@harambe3363]

I remember telling a friend after forever of taking it. He's crossing this boundary and he needs to stop. I didn't mention he's been doing this forever and its annoying I just said you're doing this right now and its annoying and you need to stop right now. And he kept going and started attacking me for putting my foot down. I told him something he didn't want to hear which was very damaging to him. We do not talk at all anymore. I gave him a chance. Its annoying because these people are like my family and they think it hurts me to cut them off when it wasn't me who put all my resources into the relationship. I wasted your time but that was your fault for as you say "breaking the contract". The really annoying part is like you said this is the one thing I ask. I let 99% of every other shitty thing past and I ask this one thing for you to not do and you cannot even hold your tongue for one thing. I had to cut it in the throat because wtf. You can't do one thing. ONE !! And like you said I swallowed this time after time. I can only swallow so much. You try to talk people and they keep scoffing you off. Well fuck you too then to hell with you.

[@p3derpan]

So accurate, all of it and part 2! I just want more ! part 3 when?!

[@yosoyashep]

Imagine an ISFJ breaking the contract over and over for years. Imagine the INTP trying to re-write the contract (over and over) so it suits better the ISFJ's needs, to a point that the only explanation to this eternal loop is that the ISFJ has been lying from the beggining. The ISFJ has always agreed verbally to every version of the contract, even after negotiating (probably because the ISFJ feels that agreeing is the only option), but has never actually agreed to it because there is only ONE contract that the ISFJ is ready to uphold: the ISFJ's contract. Then, the INTP has three options: 1) surrender, 2) leave and 3) keep hoping a new contract which respects both necesities. Actually, there's only one realistic option. But I love her.

[@denzilsegunto9918]

This is how i plan to do with an ENTJ, but we've decided to part ways.

[@SerpentineWisdom]

I never thought about this before but this was absolutely spot on. Every. Last. Detail.

[@self_education6077]

Being an INTP, I have one not so very close INTP friend. Speaking of contracts, where was a little agreement between us about me helping out with his game. I should have take my part in making icons and some of sprites, since it's a 2D game and i have a little bit more experience in drawing and Photoshop. I made some stuff. But he stuck with programming dialogs, and some part of my work is stuck because of it. Since I respect independence in myself as well as in him, and I am a zero in programming, I said: when you are ready, i will make my part. What happen is, he said nothing to me after he pass his problem and made my work by himself. Badly, but did it. But I can't blame him, because I used to do something similar in different life situations - ignoring the help of others. I am trying to say, that as an INTP, I could break a contract, but in a way of... How can I say... Overtaking responsibility? Like, in a way it wouldn't hurt others directly, but will devalue your emotional investment? Jeez, I hope my mess of words make sense.

[@Skimmerlit]

That doesn’t sound like breaking contracts. I do that sort of thing all the time. I hate needing others or including them in my work, so, if ever I’m able to handle everything alone (even if it’s less than perfect), I will. I feel worse asking for help then not needing it than I do managing everything alone.

[@kaseykasey4846]

Finding this video is extremely valuable and timely for me. It's amazing how you can clearly articulate a thought process that resonates so clearly for me yet in a way that I could never understand or make sense of myself. I suppose you don't use a platform where you can help an intp (female) work through my current relationship predicament?

[@martinanemcokova917]

I tried to date 2 INTP guys and it did not work out. We did not get through the initial phase. We were damaging to each other. I am actually not able to start these definition conversations as they are quite sensitive to me. What I do is I observe their behavior and if I consider them worthy (this connects to consistency), I open up. I go to therapy to learn to talk about feelings with someone I like. Tough to be an INTP sometimes. It is even hard for me to know what I feel at all.

[@jesulobajohn8468]

That thing about friends, very accurate

[@VictoriaForSale]

Hm, I can't remember I signed anything (yet). XD but explains why my intp fiance explodes sometimes so badly to a point he says things giving me nightmares and sleepless nights.

[@erinsennett7424]

I like your videos so much, so informative and entertaining trying to learn about an intp I like. I’m an enfp and tbh this is someone I never met, but we fell in love over the phone. I we have not talked for like 7 years and It’s coming back around. Already messed up being concerned with intensive disabled girl healing problems, and missed his message three months ago. After I dropped him a note. But I have excuse. Something indescribable. That I could never forget him. I think I’ll respond tomorrow on his bday. 🎉

[@sylviaowega3839]

Yeah, it’s our Ti that constantly looks for consistency

[@queenofeagles]

Thank you. Not familiar with this process. -istp

[@LittleMew133]

Hahaha, hoping high Fi to uphold standards they have set is like waiting for pigs to fly - good fudging luck there. But now I understand how highly my INTP ex thought of me, since he outlined everything about us until retirement. We would have a house by the lake with a boat, have some children, get a golden retriever when the children move out, etc. When I was pissy at him, he would drive us around the really nice neighborhoods and showed me nice homes. And in my head, I was like "... how the hell would looking at nice homes make me feeling better, when I'm pissed at YOU??!"

[@irenecheca6575]

Makes sense to me. Plus, the fact that you can spend a long time making sure to be in the same page on X amount of important aspects implies a certain care, and an ability to make it happen (the definition ). What else is there to ask ; ). EN TJ

[@sylvia470]

INTP Relationship Problems - no relationships. xD

[@shelleymead5063]

I have wasted alot of time believing estp. Never again.

[@HexagonSun990]

I see a pattern of people with the way you speak being NTP types. It's something in your voice (infection? I don't know what that means lol)

[@crystal3160]

Can you elaborate?

[@restoftheworld7200]

All of you have poor social development and treat relationships as some sort of Machiavellian pursuit. This has nothing to do with personality type at all. I feel sad for humanity.

[@rafsanimam5647]

Oh boi u can choose to remain ignorant, or load up on that forbidden knowledge

[@restoftheworld7200]

@@rafsanimam5647 Like contract law perhaps?

[@rafsanimam5647]

@@restoftheworld7200 u can call it contract law, to us, it is defining what we both want from the relationship so theres no problems that arise in the future.

[@restoftheworld7200]

@@rafsanimam5647 Well, go see a marriage counsellor then. Or better still get into an arranged marriage. Why waste your time replying to comments like this?

[@PlaguedByEarth]

@@restoftheworld7200 If you are so diametrically opposed to knowledge then why are you speaking? If you were consistent with what you purport then any attempt to influence the beliefs of others would be what you describe as Machiavellian. You would denounce the internet, modern society, and live alone in the woods, in silence.