Is Gun Control The Answer?

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#GunControl #Biden

[@sandshark2]

The argument “it won’t stop every mass shooting ever” is such a dumb argument and we all know it, because this is the logic we criticize conservatives for. ie, reform not fixing everything ever so we shouldn’t do it

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Unless you can make everyone immortal there's no point doing medicine, because people will eventually die.

[@XnigmaX]

Agreed. The same could be said for mental health due to the alarming number of untreated cases. Mandatory education, buyback programs, mental health access. Honestly any mesure would be better than what they have right now.

[@PapaVamp]

Exactly, pretty disappointed this is the stance he was taking. Nobody said it’ll stop all mass shootings. Why does he need a 30 round mag as a regular citizen?

[@gryph0n55]

The difference is we aren’t just talking about it not stopping ALL mass shootings, it won’t stop almost ANY. It’s an objectively true fact that mass shootings are an extremely small fraction of shooting deaths. The constant liberal push to sweepingly heavily regulate all guns because a minuscule portion are used for mass shootings not only indicates a lack of understanding of statistics, it also misses the problem and is just optically bad. Your comparison is bad because when conservatives make the argument they are taking extreme fringe cases and using them as a justification not to do reform at all, in your case you’re using extreme fringe cases as the basis for reform.

[@xoxonaotchan_7902]

@@PapaVamp also you realize anyone with gun know how can make 30 round mag? And anyone with basic fire arms knowledge can easily convert something that chambers 20 rounds (whether thats a ar15 or m14) into a fully automatic weapon. Good luck with your "assualt weapons ban"

[@Juniversal]

I think it depends on how you define gun control. If you define gun control as ANY regulations, then yes we should have gun control. Clearly Abbotts solution of having little to no restrictions is destructive and makes matters worse. Having reasonable restrictions could really be the difference between some maniac teenager buying a rifle as easily as a double cheeseburger and committing an atrocity or alternatively not committing homicide because the convenience isn't there.

[@thestoneddog]

One thing you people tend to forget is whats reasonable to you isn't reasonable to everyone.

[@XIII_Vanitas]

Yeah, gun control is any kind of regulation. Vaush bought into the gun lobby narrative that any wannabe criminal would know how and have the means to illegally acquire a gun, so any kind of restriction is ultimately worthless.

[@Juniversal]

@@thestoneddog True which is why it's important to define these terms. Most that support "reasonable restrictions" support very specific policies or plans.

[@azathpopolus6655]

@@thestoneddog What is reasonable gun control to you?

[@thestoneddog]

@@azathpopolus6655 well i am ok with closing the private sales loophole but only if its made free and easy. My guess is most people on the left want that loophole close not just to have every gun sale have a background check but to make it difficult enough to deter people from selling at all which would make it unreasonable to me.

[@NJames-dh6kz]

I don't know how anyone could object to increasing the age to buy a firearm to 21 nationally. Universal background checks and red flag laws are also a no brainer to my mind at this point.

[@bplusstudios9031]

21 I'm totally good with, background checks and red flag laws I'm a bit iffy on just because of how those can be used against "undesirable" demographics

[@alexwynters600]

@@bplusstudios9031 background checks are already mandatory when purchasing through a licensed dealer. 22 states have already implemented universal BG checks, so any private transaction must be made through a dealer. While I certainly understand the hesitation regarding red flag laws (I'm of a similar mind regarding mandatory psych evals), DV, animal abuse, and other similar behaviours would probably do a lot to keep firearms out of the hands of people most likely to attempt a mass shooting.

[@lukasmolcic5143]

as someone who is not from the US this is all just complete mass insanity, so its unclear where the rational line really is.

[@zen_tewmbs]

I do not inherently object to 21, but there is an argument against it. Basically, “it’s dumb that you’re preventing an adult from doing something, also it doesn’t seem like that would be very effective.” Truly universal and free background checks are based, but there’s some trouble with red flag laws. They can be easily abused, and so it feels important that any hearings triggered by the red flag be set up ASAP, next business day if possible.

[@azdeserthippies3997]

As long as we end the draft and rIze the age of enlistment to 21 as well then I'm all in

[@Matthew_Murray]

How many times have had a mass shooting just to find out the person walked into a store and bought the gun a day prior without issue. You can have all the mental health centers you want, but as long as guns are so easy to obtain, shootings won't stop. The US isn't the only country with a mental health crisis, but it is the only one with a mass shooting crisis.

[@lordlubu3029]

This, other countries have just as many mentally ill people, but they don't have anywhere near as many mass shootings. Gee I wonder why.

[@chibicascade]

The difference is that it's impossible to round up all the guns out there now. Mental health reform is more likely to happen

[@litkeys3497]

The US has more guns per capita than any other country but our ownership rate has been declining (until *very* recentltly) & was in the low 30s for the past several decades even as mass shootings increased. Other countries (Switzerland, Serbia, Finland) have guns; only America has mass shootings.

[@lordlubu3029]

@@chibicascade You don't have to round up all the guns, regulation is for making them harder to purchase. Many of these mass shootings, including this one, are done by people who legally purchase the guns right before the shooting

[@perfectlyfine1675]

@@litkeys3497 Switzerland has conscription through which people are educated about guns. It's also got less guns per capita than the US. "Have guns/not have guns" isn't a binary, it's the number of guns that matters. Do you think you can just put Japan and the US in the "countries with guns" mental category in that small cranium of yours and call it a day?

[@paulvideos9987]

The majority of gun deaths in this country are from suicide. It is genuinely scary that it is much easier to obtain a gun in this country than to receive proper mental health care. That’s why guns need to be regulated, and we need more investment in mental health services.

[@zkapsh]

We need some gun control mental health services and and culture shift away of seeing guns.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

It's astounding to me that anyone can be aware of this fact and then argue the solution has anything to do with gun control.

[@Rikdewinter]

is there any country on the planet that has mental healthcare so good, that it prevents suicide? Do you even think that its possible to prevent suicides in countries that have adequate healthcare? I mean, can even better healthcare prevent crazy people from doing crazy things? Up to a point right? Do you think these school shootings dont happen in Europe because they have better healthcare? And do you think they have figured out away to prevent patients from committing suicide somehow?

[@MrGksarathy]

@@zacheryeckard3051 So you think mentally unwell people should have ready access to guns? I'm all for arming the proletariat, but this endangers the proletariat as well.

[@willlord6289]

Then we should limit guns as well, as doing so will prevent suicides

[@MysteryKar]

"this is an unsolvable problem" -the only country with this problem

[@HunterDrone12]

Don’t mean its not true, context is key

[@danielshepard1449]

@@HunterDrone12 "There is nothing we can do about this" - only country where this regularly happens

[@kardoxfabricanus7590]

Venezuela, Columbia and many other countries that are actively ignored deliberately because anti gun dipshits love 🍒 picking

[@synthstatic9889]

The American constitution basically makes it impossible to solve any problem.

[@jackjackson3942]

@@HunterDrone12 Yes, yes it does.

[@openthenet6183]

Just adding to the list of people saying this is a shit take. He is just making the argument that any gun reform is useless because it won't stop all gun crime. He's ignoring the imperical data showing gun reform works. He's also doing the conservative thing by conflating gun control with banning guns

[@lastmouseontheleft]

Weird how proud gun owners are always VERY sure it’s purely a mental health thing, ain’t it?

[@lukesenesac]

That's a braindead conservative talking point. The kind he's supposed to be in the business of debunking.

[@Hunterchuck]

You can't expect much from Vaush when it comes to guns unless he decides to go back on his gun ownership advocacy though. I think Vaush generally finds himself in a tricky spot when it comes to this kind of stuff because at first it seemed very based to try and use the communist and socialist like guns too stance but once we have to address problems guns bring, it gets a bit awkward.

[@jackobrien1997]

Doing the conservative thing? Go check hasans videos on this and see how he feels about gun control. He and a lot of people on the left do want gun control = banning and confiscating all guns

[@willlord6289]

It’s one of the few issues where vaush rly annoys me, because there is an empirically correct answer that he doesn’t care about because to some degree he still loves to larp about revolution

[@jeremyshahan2218]

Gun control isn't the "Be all. End all" answer of course, but that's not a reason to not pursue it... An 18 year old in Texas can freely purchase AR-15 style rifles yet has a harder time purchasing a hand gun. A hand gun can only be purchased privately until 21 due to federal law. Also they can't even buy booze. How does any of this logically make sense? I agree we should focus on the root of the issue (Mental health), but there's ZERO reason we shouldn't also address the fact that Abbott made it way easier to obtain guns. Hell there's still supposed to be a background check for purchases, but you can even get past that through the grace period loophole. It's a fucking travesty.

[@mielipuolisiili7240]

Most gun crimes are done with hand guns.

[@lava172]

Yeah it's weird that Vaush takes the Bernie or bust mentality here, although when your default position is "i like guns" you'll run through that mindframe

[@dynamicworlds1]

Why should it NOT be harder to get a handgun than a relatively small-calibre rifle???

[@jeremyshahan2218]

@@dynamicworlds1 You missed the point in order to ask a question like that? The point is that there are virtually zero restrictions for anyone 18 or over to purchase a gun, yet they can't even buy a beer. The guy had over 1,000 rounds and multiple guns....

[@jeremyshahan2218]

@@mielipuolisiili7240 That's not the point. Of course that would be statistically correct, but it doesn't refute any of what I said.

[@Akiak7]

"Someone in that state of mind will find a way" I'm sorry this is a poor argument. Ease of access is massive, if someone has to wait even ONE extra day before they can act out their plan, that CAN make a difference. It's a moral requirement to make it as hard as possible for these events to happen.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Mentally ill people can just manifest guns dude, don't argue.

[@memesforplebs7341]

I totally agree

[@whysocurious7366]

The response should be “the argument is bad because it’s infalsifiable” not “murders are not creative enough to find another way” :o But also Most gun control plans would take about 110 years to implement with full republican & law enforcement approval instead of their full obstruction.. America has too many guns, closing Pandora’s box isn’t going to happen in time for it to actually matter. We need to switch the laws that prohibit non-violent cannabis-users from owning guns to laws that prohibit people guilty of domestic-violence from owning guns. The main problem with this one is: sooooooooo many American cops are guilty of domestic violence, that their police union heavily pushes back. But, over 60% or our mass shootings are caused by domestic-abusers. And over 90% if you add in animal-abusers

[@pepperpitz3291]

Exactly! My dad got one easily and he was broke and crazy!!

[@jaymonkey1456]

I've grown tired of the Libtarditarian argument. If you give the government an inch they will take the whole ruler

[@zeptocreations5507]

As some have pointed out in the comments already, any barrier to entry, any vetting process that can be done would have an immense impact. Cooldown period, certificate of purchase, background checks, these things do not violate your right to own and bear arms and they're effective. I personally find restrictions on the kinds of firearms one can own to be distasteful like most Americans as Vaush argues, but these impediments are _generally_ accepted to make sure people who shouldn't own guns can't impulse purchase, and that's where I think he's off base.

[@JohnYannoulas]

Yeah I don;t know what he is on. By his logic allowing civilians to purchase nuclear weapons off a counter wouldn't be the issue if it ended up blowing up a neighborhood.

[@ayarzeev8237]

Yes, I'm very pro gun but I support universal background checks, cool down periods, red flag laws, raising age to purchase

[@vitaminluke5597]

I also think that regulations by type are wholely justified. For one, they are in place in other countries and to an extent already here. Plus it just makes sense: no one could commit something like this with a break action, 1-round shotgun.

[@ayarzeev8237]

@@vitaminluke5597 that would screw over people in rural America that have to defend themselves due to how far authorities are. Also, feasibly impractical due to the amount of guns in this country and would get struck down by supreme court. Also there is large contingent of the population that would not accept this time ban

[@vitaminluke5597]

@@ayarzeev8237 I said regulation, not ban. Regarding the rest: too bad

[@iz2333]

I usually agree with most of Vaush's gun takes even as a european but this ain't it. Obviously you can't get guns out of america, it's too late for that but you can absolutely control and reduce the harm done with weapons. Part of it is mental health and part of it is making sure the people who buy guns know how to use them and can't just get them on impulse.

[@darm9020]

You didn't address his arguments about it. There is no political will to make that happen, how do you make that happen? I dunno I feel like you don't entirely understand how America and Americans view guns. I mean no disrespect btw, food for though.

[@broduel]

@@darm9020 that’s still not making the idea of gun control something not worth fighting for 💀 how tf do you think things catch on. you have a complicit attitude

[@zkapsh]

@@darm9020 so should we stop advocating for trans right because so many people are against it. You guys sound like conservatives instead of having the balls to fight you bitch about how people don't agree with you.

[@darm9020]

@@broduel you work on finding angles that will help normalizing and making mainstream that thing? I.E mental health in this instance? The door isn't even open on the subject, you don't have the tools to force it, find a window instead. I dunno, that's what we always do, if I could talk about local autogestion bubbles I would, but people never even heard of the concept so what's the point when you wanna have an actual political effect.

[@broduel]

@@darm9020 that sounds like what democrats do to republicans resulting in absolutely nothing getting done and a conservative ruled congress, these people do not care lmfao the majority of americans support gun control, so i’m lost w ur point

[@kjkoebke]

I can understand Vaush's point of view on this but I think he loses the plot when he downplays the deterrent effect of making the tools a mass shooter would want more difficult to obtain. He mentions that you can easily make a gun fully auto but fails to consider that's rarely done because it's harder than just buying a gun already set. It's the same reason that bombs aren't a more common tool, because they are more difficult to obtain or manufacture. If you could buy bombs as easily as one can buy guns they would see a lot more use. We can argue about what level of gun control is politically or reasonably possible, but we should recognize the ease of getting the weapon is a factor in shootings that occur.

[@chronomage13]

Just because one thing becomes more difficult to get doesnt mean they wont just choose another easier option (e.g. an suv can be run through a crowd of people). Choosing to hyper fixate on the tool instead of the why does not solve the problem.

[@elizabethstauffer8573]

@@chronomage13 America does not have a mass bombing problem. It has a mass shooting problem. Bombs are not sold in walmart. Guns are

[@kjkoebke]

@@chronomage13 You can walk and chew gum at the same time. I disagree with the idea that trying to mitigate the damage by limiting access to dangerous tools of destruction is hyper fixating on the tool. We can and should try to decrease the damage that disturbed individuals can do while also trying to decrease the number of people who would want to do something like this. I have to agree with Biden: crazy people exist all over, but this problem is uniquely American which is probably linked to the fact that a disturbed 18 year old was able to easily buy all the tools necessary for a school shooting.

[@thecodingninjaisepic3561]

the thing is, vaush is ok with kdis dying so he can larp as someone who needs a gun while also living a middle class lifestyle completely away from any violence where he'd ever need to defend himself.

[@jamesyount2423]

@@chronomage13 Except that there is tons of data to show that guns are the most effective at killing large numbers of people. Yes cars and knives are occasionally used but you almost never wrack up the body counts to 20 people with those choices. The exceptions are far and few between. Like the guy in China that managed to kill 28 people with knives. He attacked 159 people so the fact that only 28 died shows that that method is a lot less effective at killing. If he had managed to shoot 159 people then the death count would surely be greater than 28. And just calling a gun a tool is a tactic that is used constantly to compare a gun to something like a screwdriver when the gun's only purpose is to kill. It's not like using a tool improperly. And frankly, some skinny mentally unhinged teenager is going to be a lot less effective with any other weapon than a gun.

[@Creslin321]

Any barrier you can put between the potential shooter and their ability to quickly acquire a firearm can help. I don’t think most people advocating gun control are under the apprehension that they can somehow stop a potential shooter from getting a gun if they are very determined and are willing to spend time looking for one. But the convenience of being able to just drive to a gun store on a whim and pick one up makes it so much easier for someone in an extremely dark place to execute their plan. It’s really the same principle that companies use where they try to make spending money as easy as possible. Like DoorDash makes it so you just tap your phone a few times and then restaurant food is right at your house in a few minutes. How many people wind up spending more money just because of that convenience? It’s the same principle with guns. Putting some more hurdles and checks between you and that gun makes the whole thing harder to do and forces you to think more about what you’re planning.

[@xXRickTrolledXx]

This. We wouldn’t have this problem if there weren’t 3 guns for every person.

[@Indoor_Carrot]

It's really easy to just take a kitchen knife and start stabbing people, but these guys ALWAYS use guns. I wonder why that is...

[@jesspavlichenko5745]

You'd be surprised how easy it is to talk yourself off the mass shooting ledge when you have to wait 6 months to get a gun

[@pete_er]

This. Especially that a depressed, mentally impaired person would have much harder time overcoming obstacles to get a gun. Also, as a European citizen I cannot believe that even leftists in the US are in favor of gun access, despite sooooo many cases of mass shootings/school shootings/accidents happening systematically. Here they are unheard of. Yes, mental health is important, but it won't prevent school shootings, still there would be some tough mental health cases/sudden psychotic breaks etc. (that mental health specialist won't notice/predict/prevent). In my country (Poland) mental health care for kids and adolescents s*cks and we don't have any mass shootings. Not even one has happened. Ever. Why? Because there is no gun access. No gun glorification. No excuses.

[@tomgeurken2948]

exactly, most of these shootings are not done by rationally thinking people. The fact that there arent so many guns available can easily explain why there arent many mass shootings in the Netherlands, Germany, Nordic states. Last one i remember was Andres Breivik, well, this is an example of, "if someone is really really determined to commit a mass shooting" then they might be able to get their hands on a gun.

[@MrSmile078]

sorry but as someone looking in from the outside i don't understand how someone can believe that america should follow the rest of the developed world in the healthcare issue but not in gun control, it works, it works in every other country, guns are cool i get it guys, but they aint worth the loss of human lives

[@lordlubu3029]

That's because there is no logic, Vaush is ridiculously bias here and doing mental gymnastics to try and justify his hobby

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@danielshepard1449]

@@lordlubu3029 Honestly it's hilarious because he sounds exactly like conservatives who make excuses for why every other nation has a universal healthcare system but the US can't.

[@batman7401]

Considering society accepts the death and harm caused by alcohol in exchange for the fun that alcohol provides, there is no reason guns shouldn’t be treated similarly.

[@lordlubu3029]

@@batman7401 what? Alcohol has a ton of restrictions on it lol

[@jaredgreathouse3672]

Vaush, you're meant to be an empiricist. In fact, generally you are. We can compare the United States to other countries with similar levels of mental illnesses, similar levels of depression, REACTIONARY POLITICS, and alienation (depending how we measure this). And, the empirical literature suggests that the more avaliable guns are, the more common shootings are, and that very simple laws and so on can prevent suicides, accidents and homicides from guns. America isn't special, we're not just uniquely alienated or depressed or mentally ill or radical in our politics, the common factor in these nations is that they have strict gun laws and we do not. You can't just "mental health bruh" your way out of this. We already have restrictions on weapons. Can't get flash bangs, can't get teargas, can't get tanks or submarines or other weapons. So, we all believe there's a line as to what you can and can't own. The question is where you draw the line.

[@LordChevonlier]

Yes, but good luck getting red states to reform gun laws

[@mrcubone9761]

Completely agree. His position is so dissapointing.

[@jaredgreathouse3672]

@Football-Pundit well I am too. My people are from Detroit. I'm in Georgia. So this isn't an American thing, this is a "I've looked at the evidence from other nations and concluded x y z should be done". Vaush just doesn't want to do this because on this is issue, like religion, he doesn't wanna be empirical, his demand for evidence and data and rigor and sophistication in evidence just goes out the window.

[@thestoneddog]

I think the current line is about right but we should probably stop restrictions on things like suppressors.

[@thedead073]

Ultimately, you can have as many gun laws as you want. It's unenforceable.

[@85percentnation]

I'm British. I live in a country with relatively strict gun control, & while there is a precedent for all the memes about us being stabby fuckers, school knivings aren't exactly a huge issue in the UK.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

It's almost as though it's harder to kill 80 people with a sharp piece of metal than it is with a magic wand that kills everything you point it at.

[@biggiesmalls3096]

Ya Ive never even seen a gun in my life and I’d like to keep it that way too

[@Indoor_Carrot]

Stabbings in the USA per capita is still almost double that of the UK. Once again the American right fail at making excuses to avoid talking about the gun problem.

[@zkapsh]

Wait you don't have mass knife throwings.

[@anjad.3656]

@@biggiesmalls3096 this!

[@ashewillow3893]

This is a very upsetting thing to watch. Even if it won’t 100% work instantly, we can work to reduce the amount of guns on the street and impose stricter gun laws. That WILL help. Maybe it won’t fix the entire problem, but that will help. Obviously mental health is also an issue and that can be fixed, but we need stricter gun controls. It shouldn’t be scary to go to school.

[@Pokemonmaster32925]

People will get guns if they need guns. There are more guns on the planet than people x 100

[@andrusbgx]

I really think Vaush injects his personal gun bias in this conversation. He even mentioned it in this video that he likes his guns or whatever. It doesn't make sense. Stricter gun laws, at least for these god damn AR-15s and semiautomatic rifles, WILL help solve the issue.

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@halfalligator6518]

yes I agree. I'm a foreigner (kiwi) but I always find it strange how the "can do" Americans think it's completely futile trying to solve this. In a sense they're right... no law will stop killers getting guns... at first. But over time (50 years) powerful guns will get older and more expensive on the black market. Sure, AR's will be available... but less so. Maybe only half as many crazy 18yo's would get their hands on one. It really is that simple - it's about cold hard long-game statistics. Some reason many Americans want a quick fix or NO fix. These things take time but nothing will ever change if you don't make the first moves. There is just no good reason for guns to be that powerful and that readily available for everybody with barely and checks and balances.

[@hexogramd8430]

Mental health is the only thing that needs fixing, you take away our guns just try to see what happens

[@Evilanious]

Speculating about how determined murderers would circumvent the law is the same stupidity we make fun of neoliberal economists for. It has nothing to do with how most people actually function. Make something less convenient and less people will do it. Sure, they could do it in different ways, but we don't make policy decisions purely based on worst case fantasies but based on empirical evidence instead.

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@danielshepard1449]

Yeah there is literally empirical evidence gun control reduces gun deaths/mass shootings, but Vaush continues to use conservative arguments based on his feelings about guns.

[@greatrandomgamer1950]

Not triggered, but I think it’s reductionist to say that anyone who believes gun control can help, is an idiot. It should be obvious that mental health is extremely important, but having some limitations on who can have / buy / carry guns is similarly a somewhat preventative meassure. I understand that guns are easily accessable for anyone, but perhaps they shouldn’t be. Taking meassures that only potentially help - and that don’t negatively affect freedoms - is a nobrainer.

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@bananian]

Anyone who believes access to mental health will stop psychopaths is an idiot.

[@jaymonkey1456]

The uvalde shooter literally was able to buy the guns because theres practically no gun laws in texas. I think obvious cases of necessary red flag laws and age restrictions should be a thing. (I say this as I also believe the age for joining the military should be raised)

[@L6Jeremy]

yea idk what hes talking about tbh

[@LizStaples]

Sadly Red Flag Laws should have stopped the Buffalo Shooter but failed. Yes Texas has basically unrestricted gun ownership, but NY couldn’t stop mass shootings and they have some of the strictest gun laws in the US.

[@adamsmasher9769]

Red flag laws wouldnt have stopped the uvalde shooting would they? As far as i am aware nothing in his past wouldve qualified. If im wrong i can accept that, i am just baseing this on my current knowledge

[@hiwasgeht7945]

Death penalty for those that own a gun is better in my opinion.

[@adamsmasher9769]

@Shy Brotha Speaks im not sure about the pics of guns, i used to do that just because i like the construction and general aesthetic of many guns. But the aminal abuse should definitely be one

[@oidkqw]

I mean, you're a socialist. In America. But you say gun control is just too difficult? This is an issue on which the vast majority already agrees with us. The thing is, you don't.

[@lordlubu3029]

Yea this is weird coming from Vaush considering that implementing socialism would be 10000x harder than passing gun regulation

[@jansettler4828]

@@lordlubu3029 The gun regulation you are thinking of won't ever pass. And Vaush is for some variations of gun controll.

[@leek6927]

@@lordlubu3029 Banning guns would make achieving socialism harder and make the jobs of all those far right militias easier

[@oidkqw]

@@leek6927 Gun control is not the same as banning guns.

[@oidkqw]

@@jansettler4828 Ok, sure. Will socialism ever pass?

[@RexNEffect]

I hate how vaush is so dismissive of restrictions. When it comes to abortion, he rightly states how only poor people will not go far for abortion because they cant afford the travel. School shootings tend to happen in more poverty stricken neighborhoods. We get that restrictions wouldnt stop them from happening but they sure as hell would make them harder to take place.

[@SuperCrazy902]

You cant logic yourself out of positions you didn't logic yourself into

[@ravenhopkins347]

Yes and creating way more restrictions will just cause more policing in said poor neighborhoods which will cause crime in poor and POC neighborhoods to go up

[@RexNEffect]

@@ravenhopkins347 source?

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@drbobcat6]

@@ravenhopkins347 The issue with over-policing in non-white neighborhoods has more to due with police culture and system racism, not the mere existence of laws. Cops will look for any excuse to fuck over non-white people regardless of any legal basis they may have for doing so. Taking your argument to the extreme, we would need to rid society of most laws given how corrupt/unethical people could just take advantage of the opportunity to disproportionately enforce said laws. The existence of laws themselves are not the issue here. It's the corrupt/dysfunctional culture shared by those who enforce the laws. Let's say we were talking about a magazine capacity bill. A police officer pulls over a non-white driver for a standard traffic stop, but asks whether the driver has a gun. They answer truthfully, saying that they have a gun stored safely in the vehicle as per the law. However, the LEO tells the driver to submit their firearm for an inspection to see whether its magazines are in compliance with the law. When the driver undoes the lock on the gun case to give to the LEO, they are shot and killed - a common outcome in America these days. This is an issue with racial bias, training, and the destructive priorities most law enforcement personnel have (namely that officer safety takes absolute precedence over protecting the public). Most cops are paranoid, trigger-happy, and heavily biased in opposition to those they are meant to protect. They don't need a "legitimate reason" to kill black people. They haven't needed one for a long, long time now. But that doesn't mean that it's pointless to pursue legal solutions to problems just because it could hypothetically make it easier for law enforcement to get away with terrible shit.

[@TheTdroid]

I think Dave Chapelle was right about one thing; if every black man in the US registered owning a gun, regulation would happen overnight and there might even be an effort to reduce the number of them.

[@gskills55]

At this point, seeing how deep and emotional gun rights sentiment is, I'm thinking this would actually have the opposite and ironic effect of improving race relations.

[@zkapsh]

@@gskills55 yeah you better not save that person from cancer because I had family members die of cancer.

[@Dragonite43]

This did happen historically. Ronald Regan, governor of California at the time, and the NRA supported gun control because black people were arming themselves.

[@magnanimus9692]

Well yea gun control historically was used to keep guns away from black people and if you consider how inner cities have the strictest gun control laws that still holds true today.

[@jedpratte]

In reality most 2A advocates support and like to see gun ownership increase by all people. It strengthens the 2A movement.

[@spiderodoom]

I think it’s about time Vaush debate someone on this issue if he cares deeply about it. I’m for gun control if it means making it more difficult to own a gun, but if we’re only banning the platforms, then we’re not making progress.

[@thecodingninjaisepic3561]

vaush is fine with kids dying as long as he can LARP. it's a huge blindspot for him

[@kylereese6202]

Yeah, I don’t think banning this or that feature of a weapon works.

[@kylereese6202]

I’d like to debate him

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@TheRunawayTradwife]

I do need to see this debate to help me have these conversations in real life myself. He tends to say what I’m thinking but his delivery gets through better than my own.

[@jaredgreathouse3672]

"You just need a population that doesn't wanna do mass shootings". This is like saying "you just need a population that doesn't wanna commit assault or suicide or do other things that we don't want them to do." Like no, in every population there's a subset of people who will behave in ways we don't approve of. The issue is what do we do with those people and do we allow them to have the tools to do things we don't approve of, in this case violence. There will always be SOME people who wanna drop nukes on the country for whatever reason like it's the Turner Diaries, and we limit the chance of that happening by not having nukes for Ted to go buy.

[@kingsford6540]

Do you think countries have less crime because of better policing?

[@sandshark2]

It’s honestly the same argument as “you just need a population that isn’t fascist”, which Vaush has argued against before. So yeah his argument on gun control is a bit backwards.

[@yunix2396]

I was not expecting such a naive answer from Vaush. "You just need a population that doesn't wanna do a mass shooting" is a statement on par with republicans saying that women shouldn't have sex until marriage to justify banning abortion. It takes a systemic problem and reduced it to the individual.

[@danielshepard1449]

@@kingsford6540 Yeah, in many european countries cops don't even have to carry individual guns.

[@shadownite3378]

So you're saying we dont have a problem with gun culture in this country? Cause that was Vaush's point when he said that

[@JohnYannoulas]

"no gun control will never help" Every european country that has effective gun control and doesn't kill its students every other week: ok bro

[@haqoe9857]

That's stupid. Those europeans nations never had as many guns per capita as the US. Gun control in a nation with more guns than people doesn't work. False comparison.

[@diamondfox1178]

It's not even comparable, Europe never had many guns in the first place, doing buybacks in America would never work. We have around 400 million legal firearms, that's not counting 100-200 million probable unregistered firearms as well

[@ofanichan]

As a European; comparing European and American gun laws is extremly cringe. There are a huge percentage of Americans who threaten to fight if people try to take their guns. People would riot in the streets. WITH guns.

[@pete_er]

​@@ofanichan yeah but you need to start with building awareness first at least, and not claiming there's no point of discussing it, because it cannot be introduced immediately.

[@JohnYannoulas]

@@haqoe9857 sounds like you got there by not enforcing gun control

[@paulvideos9987]

90% of Americans support background checks so there is definitely some bipartisan support.

[@alexwynters600]

All firearms sold through licensed dealers already run background checks, and 22 states also require background checks for private sales. Nearly 80% of firearms sold in the US are through licenced dealers.

[@cesaralvesdemoraes3187]

Background check = good General gun restrictions = bad Hope that helps

[@angrytoilet24real98]

We already have background checks

[@jedpratte]

100% there is back ground checks. As a 2A advocate and avid gun collector even most private sales the sellers require proof of concealed carry permit. I do as then that shows the person I am selling to has already passed a back ground check.

[@Dante3214]

As someone who has lived in Georgia most of his life I can say that getting a gun isn't too difficult. The real thing is there are legal ways to buy firearms here where you can get around needing a background check (private sales, trade shows). That may have changed as of late, but I doubt it.

[@cyoung7127]

I'm sorry but the idea that you shouldn't advocate for a policy because there is currently no political will for it is an insane take, Vaush

[@Khalkara]

He literally got mad at Destiny when he used this argument against him, a couple of years ago.

[@plumprook6296]

Yeah I feel like he’s a bit biased on this issue. Even on issues like M4A there isn’t a ton of political will (yes, support, but not a lot of will to get it done) but he still advocates for them anyways

[@alexwynters600]

"Ban guns" isn't just a bad policy due to a lack of political will, but also because it's literally impossible. You would have to transform the US into a dystopic, authoritarian police state to get rid of all the guns, and even then you never gonna gonna get them all.

[@gskills55]

Agree with this point but the important and entirely separate point that is getting lost here is that the US and individual states cannot just start passing laws against the popular will of their citizens. Texas is the perfect example. Everyone can shout in Abbott's face asking him why he hasn't doesn't anything regarding gun regulation and he can give the perfectly legitimate (and unfortunate) reason that the people of Texas don't want him to.

[@chipmanly1359]

Why though? You're wasting money, time, and resources on something that's never going to happen.

[@alexmichaelfriedman]

This is one of those issues were Vaush’s biases shows STRONGLY imo. Vaushes position on guns seems to boil down to “we have lots of guns in America so why try to do anything and I like 30rnd mags and concealed carry”. Seems to me that vaush is clearly pro gun and isn’t actually interested in exploring or even honestly understanding the statistics on gun deaths in the USA and the suggested legislation that could address that. Nor honestly engaging with suggestions on how other high gun ownership countries have handled gun control. Meanwhile his suggestions seem to boil down to let’s have more therapy and finger wag at students we think might be prone to violence and call them “cringe”. *Edit:* Honestly Vaush almost sounds like a Republican senator talking about gun control in this video…. Not quite but very close. Like yea expanding mental health access in America should be a core part of a broader health reform initiative in America and can help long term. However, it’s no accident that America has the most guns of any country and the most gun deaths of any country. We have extremely lax and in many situations just irresponsible gun laws those MUST be addressed. Additionally, this notion that vaush keeps propagating everytime gun control comes up that “we have to many guns in America and a mass shooter will always get a gun” is really just the tired old Republican argument of “ban guns and only bad guys will have guns, so the solution is more guns!” just in a pretty red dress. There are programs and legislation that can reduce the number of guns in circulation and other countries have tried them, additionally the USA has banned assault weapons in the past ( tho the ban was undone ) and it appeared to have a noticeable effect on gun deaths. Instead vaush wants to just do pretty much nothing and finger wag at loner students and call them cringe

[@LizStaples]

True. I agree somewhat with Vaush that guns are already proliferated in US, but his ignoring of the benefits of buy back programs and other proven methods just shows his Blue State Privilege. Texas has law literally against restricting guns at all. It isn’t sustainable

[@desireeslaten6618]

Yup. If "there's just too many guns" for gun control then theres too many capitalists for socialism, lol. He's only defeatist about this because he's manipulative af when it comes to protecting guns.

[@alexmichaelfriedman]

@@desireeslaten6618 fair disclosure I have absolutely no interest in seeing vaush’s form of socialism and I am not a supporter of that. I am more a supporter of democratic socialism in the Bernie sanders senses. I.e, well regulated capitalism. However I am in favor of working with anyone on policies where agreement can be found. Generally vaush can be pretty reasonable on a lot of issue imo; however, he is completely blinded by his love of guns on this issue for sure

[@Khalkara]

Yeah its so disappointing to hear him talk on this issue, cuz he just shuts down any attempt at good faith discussion by smearing the other person as naive or as a lib.

[@JB-sc1tg]

I agree. I thought this was just a bit where he was being sarcastic. This is an incredibly bad take and contradicts what he said back he previous positions on gun control.

[@gontraf8702]

Your position is indefensible in the face of worldwide data. "Maybe my biases are sticking out here" No shit Vaush 😃

[@WiloPolis03]

People simplifying this entire debate into "pro-2A" versus "anti-2A" is the exact reason we haven't been able to pass anything preventing this stuff in the first place. I don't get why anyone would think that universal background checks, higher age requirements, or limiting AR-15s translates to "banning guns".

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@hexogramd8430]

If I can join the military at 18 I should be able to get a gun at 18

[@Mae_Dastardly]

A lot of it comes from fear of precedent and slippery slope fallacy, i come from gun culture and one of the big arguments against Any reform is "give an inch and theyll take a mile", its typical reactionary fears lmao

[@Mae_Dastardly]

@@hexogramd8430 the limit for joining the military should be 21 too lmao, stop sending kids to die for oil barons

[@WiloPolis03]

@@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate Then why are we still having this problem?? Clearly there's something we're not doing right

[@psyjax2]

Gun control would work. I refuse to believe that a system that allows an unhinged 18 year old (with a history of red flags) to walk into a store and purchase deadly weapons unimpeded, is the best possible system. I don't really care about the millions of guns already in circulation, the vast majority of those are sitting in someones collection causing no problems at all. I do care about the cavalier and inconsistent gun laws in this country. There should be universal background checks at the federal level, age restrictions (21 years at minimum), red flag registry, licensing and training requirements etc. But these will never exist in a consistent, country-wide form, because our institutions are a broken joke.

[@MindForgedManacle]

Well the problem is can't work right now. There's no way to collect that many guns to start with, and to end with there would be extreme and violent resistance to any kind of gun confiscation. Any nationwide gun control would just affect blue states, with them giving up their guns and conservatives laughing at how cucked they ared.

[@psyjax2]

@@MindForgedManacle Did you read what I posted? I never advocated confiscating guns. I don't care about the guns already out there. I care about the fact that a psycho can walk into a store in Texas, buy 2 AR's, a ton of ammo, then go shoot a bunch of people a couple of days later. That CAN and SHOULD be fixed. But it never will. So don't worry about it.

[@Khalkara]

True, but also you can do something about the millions of guns already in circulation. Crack down on them, confiscate them.

[@psyjax2]

@@Khalkara I don't think that's necessary or feasible. But I also wouldn't be against it.

[@jedpratte]

@@Khalkara there is over 400 million firearms. Over 100 million firearms owners. Even if you take less then 1% who would fight confiscation. That is still a very dangerous idea with a massive death toll to try to confiscate.

[@kox7527]

Gun control isn't the answer but it is the solution. The answer is to improve the underlying conditions but that is a long term thing that can take decades, so for now there should be a lot more gun control laws. But all of this shows the usselesenes of the democrats, so many outrages for shootings every couple of months but they never snowball that into even a little more protection for these kids.

[@haqoe9857]

It's not the solution. We should have a right to own guns. Leftists and anarchists should never allow the state to be the only one with arms.

[@martymcflyy6775]

Anything democrats try would immediately get shot down by republicans

[@discowolf25]

Tbf- the conservatives block it every single time anyway so… (agreed though lol).

[@rainbowkrampus]

Prominent Dems take gun lobby money too. To the tune of million each. Schumer, Hoyer, Pelosi. These are just some of the disingenuous POS who wring their hands about gun violence while continuing to ensure nothing is ever done about it.

[@luciobours336]

@@discowolf25 conservatives block everything democrats want. Thats a self-defeating attitude that leads to literally nothing.

[@CarbonMalite]

I am saying if an 18 year old fresh out of Highschool is able to legally get a gun and go shoot people there's a problem here. Restrictions can only help, it really doesn't matter if it stops every instance because nobody is saying it will. Mental health is half the equation I believe

[@LizStaples]

Yeah it’s an issue. Heck it’s been a problem. The Waco Siege didn’t happen until the bought explosives, they had full carte Blanche to stockpile an arsenal.

[@azdeserthippies3997]

That's why we should make the draft illegal and raise the age of enlistment to at least 21(25 better) and outlaw recruiting on school grounds/events.

[@LizStaples]

I think mandatory training can be a good barrier to entry. Heck you have to take a food safety course to serve food you should have to take a class to buy a gun.

[@azdeserthippies3997]

@@LizStaples normally you're given 30 days after hire and you begin working before you get a food card. They want to schedule you now...

[@doovstoover9703]

"I'm a gender abolitionist but gun law reforms, wheew that's just too pie-in-the-sky for me boss"

[@lordlubu3029]

"I'm pro abolishing the commodity form and getting rid of personal property rights to establish a socialist commune.....but gun regulation? That's impossible!"

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Gender abolition and gun control are Vaush's most consistent wrong takes. He just doesn't listen to anyone.

[@anjad.3656]

Cognitive dissonance. Admitting that in an ideal world, no one would own a gun, would mean he'd have to also not own a gun at some point.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

@@anjad.3656 Or, crazy idea, some people don't find "the greatest equalizing force in history being entirely eradicated" to be an ideal world. In an ideal world, there's be no danger in everyone or anyone being armed.

[@haqoe9857]

We need more guns. How can you eb an anarchist/leftist and want gun law reforms? Fake

[@astralflick]

We should make guns like a car or something. You go to class, get a license and all that.

[@arrogantprince]

Free of charge

[@astralflick]

@@arrogantprince sure

[@iz2333]

Vaush would argue that he doesn't want the government to be the gatekeeper of who gets to have a gun and who doesn't. As a German I can see how that could be a problem given how it's almost impossible to get a gun just for shooting at the range here. You need tons of licenses/certificates and have to prove to the government that you have a specific reason to get one. Even then you're very very limited in what you can actually own. I have no doubt that should a system like that be introduced in america, republicans would make you take a patriotism test to see if you deserve a gun.

[@lordlubu3029]

I'd honestly have more respect for Vaush if he just came out and said "Yea, I'm willing to let kids die because I like my toys" than whatever the fuck mental gymnastics he is doing here, be honest and stop treating your audience like idiots. You have an audience of debatebros, do you not think we can see you trip over 1000 different fallacies and bad faith arguments?

[@squarecircle1473]

He pretty much said that at 4:30 "I like my high-capacity mags. That's the most important part." Fuckin disgrace, tbh.

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@aclimbatize]

Seriously. Anyone who says gun control measures will accomplish nothing are either naive, or arguing in bad faith because they like having guns and aren't willing to come right out and say they are fine with mass shootings as long as they get to continue to engage in their fetish. Been watching Vaush for a bit now and generally agree with his takes and feel like they are well thought out. This is disappointing at best. Same bullshit talking points as conservatives, complete disregard of facts and reality. Other countries have shown gun control measures do decrease gun deaths. It's pretty easy to see this. This is not a hard concept to grasp unless you're willing to look the other way and pretend that somehow it's different here.

[@hexogramd8430]

There is nothing wrong with that opinion, but that’s not what he said. Better Mental health care will fix everything.

[@jackjackson3942]

Spot on

[@lordlubu3029]

This truly is Vaush's "Hasan on Ukraine" moment tbh

[@thebigsida6645]

I was thinking the same thing!!! At 23:15 he literally does what Hasan was doing the entire time during the Ukraine debacle. Fucking embarrassing

[@dqarqeer8603]

Id argue this is worse

[@sothseggere]

@@thebigsida6645 you really have not the slightest clue what you're talking about. his reaction there was 100% on point.

[@alrighttheremate8723]

This and the JK Rowling misogyny tweet

[@theredreceivers]

"No because it's Canada and your population density is like four" The population of a school in Canada is four students? This is so moronic.

[@lordlubu3029]

Yea Vaush is just going full cope mode, it's weird to see his brain switch to right-wing "feelings over facts" mode

[@darkflame8382]

oh cmon this was an obvious joke

[@dqarqeer8603]

@@darkflame8382 shit joke

[@jonathansurovell3516]

@@darkflame8382 but he never followed up with a legitimate response.

[@Khalkara]

Man the doublethink he has on this topic is real. "no I'm not doing the right wing thing where I bullshit you about meaningless differences in population size between countries" >goes on to bullshit us about meaningless differences in current guns in circulation If the high availability of guns contributes to gun deaths, then the logical conclusion is to reduce the high availability.. Which is achieved with gun control laws. But Vaush is speaking out against gun control laws as the primary solution to mass shootings, wtf? Also how does he think toxic gun culture came to be, because every dumbf*ck can get a gun and they change the culture. Also the idea that someone with handguns can do as much damage as someone with a rifle is so fucking simplistic. Look at the Las Vegas shooter, you can't kill that many people with a handgun from that range. And the extra range made it hard for people to know where the shooting was coming from, netting in a higher casualty rate. This isn't rocket science, every country that had mass shootings on any regular basis saw them all but disappear after implementing strict gun control laws (and reducing high gun availability), look at the UK or AU for examples: They did not pass any mental health reforms when the regular mass shootings disappeared, they just pass gun control legislation. The USA's population is not special, every country has crazies. The only difference is that the US makes it much easier for crazies to get a hold of guns. And this is all just talking about mass shootings, many more people die every year from needless gun deaths (accidents/suicides). A suicidal person who can't get anywhere near a gun is much less likely to succeed in any attempt, and anyone who has made a suicide attempt has a drastically lower chance of trying again. Thus gun control can even help bring down the amount of suicides, even if it doesn't tackle the core issue (lack of available mental health) directly. Gun control is good, less guns in the hands of civilians is good. And on top of all of that, imagine if the brown shirt patrols who want to do voter intimidation weren't able to wield guns. They'd be a lot less intimidating.

[@Cyrinil142]

Worked in Australia. Americans, that's your cue to dig up excuses for why America is different and the stuff that works everywhere else wont in the us.

[@lordlubu3029]

I'm so upset to see Vaush unironically buy into the "America exceptionalism" argument here when he explicitly bashes this dumb way of thinking when it comes to social welfare and Medicare for all.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Um actually dingoes emit an anti-shooting force field.

[@KratomFlavoredAdidas]

@@lordlubu3029 500 million guns.

[@lordlubu3029]

@@KratomFlavoredAdidas What does that have to do with making guns harder to purchase? The shooter BOUGHT the gun. Also just stating a number means nothing, we have over a billion bottles of alcohol in the country and alcohol can be found in pretty much every home and store.....so should we not have any alcohol regulation because there is just so much of it?

[@crabohato4954]

Some people say "it's about mental health" and some other people say "it's about gun reform". Want to know what it's about? Both. So what's the solution, fix BOTH. You know what would also help deal with mental health? More accessible and better health care. But y'know, "but it's the socialism and the taxes!!!"

[@PlatinumAltaria]

The US isn't the only country with mental health problems, though. Talking about mental health is a distraction from gun control, it's not a legitimate political argument.

[@danielshepard1449]

Mental health is always an issue, but US mental health is not 100x worse than the rest of the developed world. US gun ownership rates are. That's why talking about "mental health" when there is a gun massacre every week is a distraction. Mental health is not the key variable here between the US and the rest of the world. Honestly it's exactly like when conservatives say the US can't have universal healthcare because of the obesity problem. It's a distraction

[@dan2178]

@@PlatinumAltaria yes it is. Alcoholism is the literal culture encouraged. .Italy has gun laws in par with Colorado. Yet it has some of the lowest gun violence.

[@crabohato4954]

@@PlatinumAltaria yeah, the US isn't the only country with mental health problems. But it sure is the country ranked in third place when it comes to depression rates while also being the country with the lowest access to mental health care. It also has a crap ton of easily available guns which doesn't help the situation. Which is why I said it's a mix of both. Better to solve both problems instead of only solving one and leaving the other to fester

[@beckyblueish]

Anyone who characterizes Vaush’s audience as a bunch of parrots or whatever should be directed to this comment section

[@katyyulig]

“Handgun shootings can be as bad as rifle shootings.” “It is very easy to get an illegal gun even if controlled.” “It is impossible to do political change in gun control so let’s do anything else.” So many trash takes in this one. You just love guns blindly and that’s it.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

Naw. We just know that gun violence isn't special and we oppose all violence, so merely shifting violence from one kind to another accomplishes NOTHING.

[@dankuser8303]

Handgun shootings can be worse than rifle shootings because of their concealablity Handguns are responsible for the vast majority of gun deaths in this country, in terms of homicides they kill about 9-10 thousand and rifles and shotguns kill about 500 This is why the assault weapons ban is stupid And considering the raw amount of guns in this country yes it is easy to get guns illegally We still should do some gun control because it would do good but banning anything is off the table for me

[@dankuser8303]

Also yes I love guns and what’s the problem with that. I want reasonable regulations on them but still allow people to have access to them Also not saying you are saying this but guns really need to be decoupled from the right, you can be left wing and into guns, just like you can be masculine on the left as well.

[@haqoe9857]

Those are all facts. How are they trahs takes? Gun control doesn't work.

[@haqoe9857]

And you can't be a lefty and anti gun. How are you going to stand against the state without guns?

[@kirbstomp8666]

Saying “they’ll get guns anyway” is just empirically not true. A HUGE portion of shootings and school shootings in particular are done using legally and recently obtained firearms. You’re acting like shooters are gonna be super rational and resourceful about getting guns but they’re not. That’s a real problem for organized crime for sure, and probably won’t meaningfully deter people within those circumstances from getting guns. But all of these idiot 20 year olds who have some crazy vendetta would have a much harder time getting their hands on guns with stricter gun regulation. Even if they are resourceful enough to try to get one illegally it’s gonna take at least like a week and the wait time alone will cut down a lot on these shooters too because it stops being an impulsive decision. I get that your argument is essentially that we can’t pass these laws anyway, but let’s not pretend that gun regulation wouldn’t have a meaningful impact

[@lordlubu3029]

Yea Vaush's argument is ridiculously illogical, most of these shootings are carried out by younger people, not criminal syndicates with unlimited resources.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

Man, banning and controlling drugs worked so well for the US in the past, that'll definitely work well with guns.

[@jedpratte]

Or then law abiding citizens who decide not to go along now are criminals and the gun trade will go even farther underground.

[@thebigsida6645]

@@zacheryeckard3051 False equivalency.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

@@thebigsida6645 Really? That's an interesting accusation, especially considering the war on drugs is what fuels gang violence in America.

[@kibakiba1863]

Usually agree with Vaush, do think pursuing legal change is worthwhile in addition to mental care and anything else that can help. 75% of all Americans agree on federal background check enforcement.. this is a rare case when even the nut-jobs have spill over to left position. Having multiple avenues to improve things is good; dismissing the legal when majority of Americans still agree in improving restriction laws does what?

[@345635356]

Here's the thing though a majority of Americans also agree with ending wars, M4A, and other ideas that are left-leaning, but because the political system is oligarchic these ideas are as impossible as basic gun control. Vaush saying that you shouldn't pursue the policy because it's unfeasible is dumb though, if that were a case anything left of liberal should give up.

[@TheSurrealist.]

It seems like most of the comments actually disagree with Vaush. I do as well. Usually he’s on point, and i don’t think he’s totally wrong here, but we need reasonable gun control.

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@1911GreaterThanALL]

Background checks are highly fraudulent

[@synthstatic9889]

“the political system is oligarchic” I agree but we need to stop saying “the system” and just say the constitution. Our constitution makes it nearly impossible to enact popular policies, and allows a minority to perpetuate an intolerable status quo against the wishes of the majority. Our constitution doesn’t prevent tyranny; it prevents democracy.

[@Anton-wk8lv]

Obviously restrictions can't prevent mass shootings, but the number of victims will decrease. Not all shooters are determined enough to find the "best" weapon and then get to work, some will just take what they can find, and if that weapon is less effective as a result of stricter gun laws, people will still get killed but not *as* many. It's something called harm reduction, don't know if you've heard of it when debating Bernie or busters in the past.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

That's not really how guns work. Semiautomatic hunting and sporting rifles (including AR-15s) are all about the same. Size of bullet is the main difference, to be honest. It's not hard to make a bigger magazine. Hell, building a "high capacity" machine pistol out of pipes isn't particularly hard. The only thing most of these laws will do is impact legal gun owners with an undue burden. All harm reduction is not equal. If we put everyone in an isolation bubble Coronavirus would die immediately/over the next two weeks. But we don't, because it's unpractical and an undue burden on everyone.

[@Anton-wk8lv]

@@zacheryeckard3051 "It's not hard to make a bigger magazine". I'll take your word for it, but not everyone will be as "ambitious" to make their weapon as lethal as possible. I'd be happy to see stats, but even if only one in 100 shooters acts without pre-planning and just settles with what is most easily available, lives are saved.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

@@Anton-wk8lv That's really dumb when you could stop more than half by dealing with mental illness (suicide especially) and gang violence. Larger magazines don't increase lethality. Reloading is easy. A 1% reduction in school shooters is ABSOLUTELY NOT worth just giving up our right to bear arms. FOH. Maybe in your country violence is low enough and police response times are fast enough to not need to defend yourself, but in my country, in my city, that isn't the case.

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@land_and_air1250]

@@Anton-wk8lv you can also just spend time practicing how to reload and you can outpace a typical person using a 30rd magazine with 10rd magazines easily(just spend an hour practicing at home even and you’ll see huge increases in effective fire rate)

[@ko2vo]

Why was the suggestion of mandatory gun training met with an "eh maybe" at the end there? You need to be 16, take a written test and a road test in order to drive a vehicle, as well as have auto insurance and be sober. Car accidents are already the number one killer in America, IMAGINE how much worse it would be without those meager requirements. Something similar should be the absolute minimum for owning a gun as well.

[@catboytartaglia]

Agreed

[@ike804]

Because gun training isnt like learning to drive a car. How a firearm operates isnt complicated at all. A shooter having to go through a week long course when they pirchase their firearm wouldn’t really give them any knowledge that would prevent a shooting, if anything it would make them more effective at it since most firearm training is just drills for positioning.

[@R43o7]

I usually agree with Vaush in his videos and even like his hyperbolic attitude that makes him so divisive, BUT this is clearly a terrible take riddled with pro-gun bias. Why have speed limits when people will speed anyways? We can't stop people from being able to speed, so lets just remove speed limits. See how dumb that sounds? After the Uvalde attack its now clear that even when there are trained police officers at a scene BEFORE the attacker gets there, he still got into the school. Gun control is the CLEAR and OBVIOUS answer. Vaush is just reframing the arguments that republicans use to prevent legislation from getting through. Pretty sad.

[@TheBMB7]

It's kinda crazy how simply liking guns as cool toys really poisons your brain.

[@Mikidy]

Liking anything lends credence to biases. Thing the issue with Voosh here is he already switched positions over time. He initially was firmly anti-2A, but changed his mind after he went to college. He's probably hesitant to change his thinking on this issue because he already did, afraid of flip flopping. I also think Vush is not really considering that if there is a longer wait time, more hoops to jump through, the emotional state a potential shooter could change. He mentioned suicide missions. People can be committed to suicide in the moment, but if they are prevented, or given enough time they will change their minds.

[@stubt4322]

@@Mikidy 70% of people who survive a suicide attempt never attempt again. You can significantly cut down suicides with gun control. Vaush is just stupidly axiomatic with his pro-gun stance because it's a *requirement* for being the kind of leftist he thinks he is. In reality, on numbers alone, gun control hurts fascists a lot more than it does non-fascists. He's just unwilling to concede the notion that the left isn't winning a civil war on gun ownership alone.

[@Mikidy]

@@stubt4322 Well stated 🙏 Wanna Morb later?

[@katy2176-p3m]

i was just thinking about how the gun culture koolaid starts young in america, no surprise to see vaush drank it up and now has this pretty conservative attitude about it

[@bananian]

That's not how it works. The shooter must also be a psychopath who lacks empathy. Simply enjoying shooting at a gunrange is not a red flag at all.

[@Asterothe91]

1:15 i also agree, we're past the point of complete gun control, but we can still make it more difficult for them to just buy them like this kid did

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@1911GreaterThanALL]

Keep an eye on the SCOTUS case New York Pistol and Rifle Club.

[@Toastie_EU]

Find this kind of take very odd. Vaush, you're usually very empirical. You very often look at data and numbers, but here, you almost use reactionary arguments. When you argue that gun reform would not stop school (or mass) shootings, I really begin to scratch my head. We all know why grocery stores typically place candy and other sweets close to the checkout line - because the easier it is to do something, the more that thing will happen. Same thing with guns. The more easily accessible guns are, the more shootings will happen. It really is that simple. Of course there's guns in circulation. That will probably always be a problem unless a federal ban is enforced heavily, but still. An 18 year old who can just waltz into a store and buy a gun without significant checks on his background is incredibly alarming. Here comes the part you're waiting for while reading this: I'm European. Opinion dismissed, I know. But still, seriously, look around. The USA isn't the only country with mental health issues. Similar mental health issues exist all around the world, but no other country is as liberal with their gun laws as the United States. Do mass shootings occur outside of the USA? Yes. Does that matter in and of itself? No. There's FAR fewer of them. The consequentialist take here should always be to advocate for what causes the least harm. More guns = more shootings, it really is just as simple as that. Do I expect you to completely flip your argument to one of pro gun control? No. But I do expect you to take the gun control argument more seriously than just immediately dismissing it.

[@ombra711]

He's a gun nut, end of story for him.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

I can explain. Stop looking at gun crime. Look at crime. Stop looking at gun violence. Look at violence. Target the shared cause and it won't matter how many guns or shovels or cars are out and about. The human is the offender and the victim, so stop this focus on the implement.

[@camerongalles8617]

@@zacheryeckard3051 to add to this and give an example. The 2016 nice france attack killed more people than ANY u.s. mass shooting... he used a truck

[@Toastie_EU]

@@zacheryeckard3051 This is true. Another thing that is true, is that the easier it is to access a certain thing, the more the thing will be used. Also, following your logic, what's the root cause of school/mass shootings? Sure, one could say violence, but uh.. Kinda hard to do a school/mass shooting without something to shoot with. Targeting the gun in this case will make the numbers plummet. I don't want to deny that violence would still happen without guns. My point is that the violence that will occur will be far less deadly. Deaths from mass-anythings in Europe are far, far, far lower than the numbers in the US, while, as far as I know, the crime rate is similar. Stop denying that the gun matters a lot in these scenarios. A lot harder to kill 10+ people in a school with just a knife or similar weaponry. In order to do that, you need firearms. I think the case is pretty clear. Also.. why not do both? Why not both cut down on guns and secure better mental healthcare for people?

[@zacheryeckard3051]

@@Toastie_EU Chemical weapons, which are easy to make, and booms are easier to kill 10+ people with than a gun. I want to reduce total violence. And banning guns won't do that. End of story.

[@olejacobirgens7801]

I agree with Vaush on most topics but here he is way off. His analogies to sand and ice, his ridicule of gun regulations makes no sense to me. He is wrong about his historical data and generally misrepresents data which is unlike him. I just don’t get it. Compare with any other country or even to the US in the past and the answer is obvious. We need to get the guns regulated and change the publics perception on guns.

[@SuperCrazy902]

He's doing copium because he likes guns. He grew up in America, has a big bias because of it, and cloaks his all encompassing distaste towards gun control by talking about neighborhood armament like that's worth these school shootings

[@robinellermeier3795]

he really wants to act like America is a CoD map and mass shooters just need to walk to the closest random drop point to get a weapon

[@SuperCrazy902]

@@robinellermeier3795 kinda off topic, but is that how Cod plays now? I stopped at Black Ops 1 and that sounds like ass

[@robinellermeier3795]

@@SuperCrazy902 idfk I just said CoD to refer to FPS genre tropes as a whole lol

[@land_and_air1250]

But the us in the past had a lot of guns and the us now has more mass shootings and still has a lot of guns? I don’t see the comparison if anything gun regulations are stricter now than they were back then and yet more mass shootings now

[@CrossfacePanda]

Vaush media takes & Vaush gun takes. Name a more iconic duo

[@graceygal2664]

I love how vaush is just so obsessed with buy guns that he refuses to just accept the solution

[@whysocurious7366]

He pushes for M4A all the time.. republicans are the hypocrites that are anti-mental-healthcare.

[@ombra711]

Amen! Dude showed his ass with all his on stream GUN NUTTERY.

[@DonTokoroten2009]

Vaush would be selling guns at a schizofrenia instituiton before accepting ANY gun control.

[@graceygal2664]

@@DonTokoroten2009 honestly yea

[@graceygal2664]

For some reason all the replies to this comment get deleted

[@duncanmacleod6274]

I agree with some points here, but I still think you're unjustifiably dismissive of some forms of gun control. You keep going back to saying how easy it is to get illegal hardware "you can just 3D print" or "go to another state" and forgetting how many of these people are at least somewhat mentally incompetent, minors, or otherwise not in possession of the necessary resources. I would much rather they have to try to make their own high capacity mags and not know where to get black market stuff or be able to afford it, or fuck up and get discouraged. The "they can go to another state" argument is dumb. Obviously we want federal laws here. Any deterrent is good, and many of these are deterrents. Also here's the argument on banning high capacity magazines: They are really critically important for mass shootings, and no alternative uses justify that risk. It's the same reason we don't let civilians buy rocket launchers. "I want one and I have muh' freedom" isn't a good enough justification.

[@LizStaples]

Do we stop civilians from buying rocket launchers? Or do we stop them buying rockets. Pretty sure in Texas you can buy the launcher, there is literally a place you can rent a Tank for a day.

[@duncanmacleod6274]

@@LizStaples That's nitpicking. It's not relevant to the analogy or the criticism. We stop civilians from buying things that carry high risks if they aren't necessary. Most military weapons, certain chemicals, etc...

[@lucilleaudinet6081]

Owning a gun in Europe is not even a thing people think about. Y’all don’t realize how weird it is that regular people can just own guns, so much so you’ll go out of your way to do mental gymnastics in order to justify your flawed mentality. It’s WEIRD to want to own a gun. It’s a deadly weapon. Idc how much you’re trained, that it’s fun for you, that it’s XYZ. It’s a damn weapon, period. Allowing people to be around deadly powerful tools freely is ludicrous. Yeah mental health okay, but solving the core issue of why people commit mass shootings/ murder in the first place will take decades. It’s both making people’s lives better AND making it extra hard to own a gun. People should have to wait a whole year for their permit and have legal age at 26. Renting a car literally costs more or isn’t allowed bellow 25. Why do you think that is? Oh yes your brain isn’t cooked yet.

[@eliperilpresidente]

My man said with a straight face that you could kill the same amount of people just as effectively in 1962 and 2022. 🤯

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Gun manufacturer: "We've spent decades perfecting this firearm to maximise its stopping power" Some dumbass: "Nah dude it's the same as a musket".

[@alexwynters600]

I mean it's not 1962, but you could buy an AR15 in 1964, and that rifle would be more or less the same as any AR you could buy today. Sure there have been some minor optimisations over the past 50ish years, but the core of the rifle is the same. Semi-auto, 5.56, 20" barrel, 20/30rnd mags. Same gas system, same basic layout. Firearms really haven't seen any massive innovations since the late 50s/early 60s. Side note; a 10rnd, semi-auto .22 rifle in a traditional wood stock would be just as deadly in the hands of a mass shooter as an AR would.

[@anthonytitone]

He’s right about that part

[@freaki0734]

@@alexwynters600 well yeah but I guess it would have been significantly harder, for an average person, to afford that rifle plus ammo in 1962 right? Could be wrong with our current economy though lol

[@alexwynters600]

@@freaki0734 Just did a little digging and you're right, though I'm not sure if the difference would be enough of a deterrent to account for the difference in gun crime. Adjusting for inflation a basic Colt AR15 would have cost you a out 30% more back in 1970. Not insignificant, but neither is it insurmountable. The ammo on the other hand was almost 3x as expensive per round. That I could definitely see being a potential limiting factor, though more so in how deadly the average shooting would be, not in the ability to carry out a shooting in the first place.

[@LizzyVonBloom]

I understand being wary of government crackdowns on firearm ownership, but this position draws no distinction between gun prohibition and common sense gun regulation. You’d never make the argument that cars shouldn’t be properly licensed and regulated, and there’s no logical conclusion that regulation is some slippery slope issue. We have versions of most gun reform laws in place depending on the state you’re in, they’re just wholly ineffective, gutted and unenforceable.

[@finnameme8108]

Well what is common sense gun regulation? Should someone be able to own a .50 cal rifle? An AR15?

[@LizzyVonBloom]

@@finnameme8108 Any functional licensing system would be tiered by education. In the same way you need a CDL to drive a bus, you’d need a higher level of education and license to own an AR-15 than you would to own a .38 special. I don’t want the feds restricting what kinds of weapons can be owned, I want them restricting who is allowed to own them.

[@theredreceivers]

The founders never intended to create an unregulated individual right to a gun. You're just accepting the NRA's rewriting of the 2A since the 70's, ignoring that it's referring to the establishment of a "well regulated militia".

[@PlatinumAltaria]

The founders: "States should maintain their own armed forces separate from the federal government." The NRA: "I should be allowed to personally own a tank."

[@andrewb5149]

@@PlatinumAltariaEveryone is allowed to own a tank in America, but nobody does outside of collectors does. The thing with tanks is they are expensive but if you have rubber tread you can drive operate them on most public roads.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

@@andrewb5149 The only way you're allowed to own a tank is if the GUN is disabled. I cannot stress enough how this is not the own you think.

[@exalteddjinn69]

Just because they will get their hands on a gun anyway doesn't mean we shouldn't make it harder for them to do so.

[@camerongalles8617]

Yeah totally! shooting prevented... by a couple days

[@memesforplebs7341]

The people who own guns own a lot of guns, so making a point of the average American having guns doesn't make sense because actually, a minority of Americans own guns. Also, Vaush totally ignores that we aren't talking about people who have access to pistols we are talking about people who have access to openly carry around assault rifles. We know the danger of guns and so does the NRA who have banned guns on their meeting going on soon.

[@LizStaples]

So the phrasing “access to open carry assault rifles” is intesting wording. Concealed carry is much harder to get than open carry and many Red states everyone has right to open carry and the few restrictions there are often are about sawed off shotguns not long rifles or how automatic they are.

[@jedpratte]

Last time I checked it ended up being 30% something percent. But that doesn’t tell the hole story as the study found in city’s it’s more like 20% and in rural areas it’s closer to 50%. Witch is no surprise as in rural areas where there are wild dangerous animals and police response could take 20min+.

[@Ninja-The-Red-Shinobi]

This is the part where I post the meme of the kid asking "Why not both?" in regards to more mental health coverage as well as proper gun control.

[@Pimpedout007101]

Gun reform isn’t THE answer it’s AN answer that could very easily help the problem

[@MekkoGekko]

Vaush admits that he likes guns and that is the sole reason for this take. If people want to say "don't take my guns because I like guns" then that is an argument. But you have to understand that this is the only argument. Reasonable gun restrictions are sensible and will lead to less mass shootings. This is a definitive and demonstrable fact.

[@camerongalles8617]

It would cause less mass shootings but not mass killings. It would also create more soft targets like the ones targeted by 94% of mass shooters.

[@MekkoGekko]

@@camerongalles8617 please explain both points. Are you saying that all mass shooters would still kill people, but by other means? And I'm not sure what you mean by a soft target or how this would create more.

[@camerongalles8617]

@@MekkoGekko yes and a soft target in this context is a place that doesn't allow firearms which as I said are the target of choice by the vast majority of shooters

[@MekkoGekko]

@@camerongalles8617 is it easier to kill lots of people with or without a gun? Most of the rest of the world is therefor a "soft target", but funnily enought mass shooting tend to be mostly a US phenomenon.

[@MekkoGekko]

@@camerongalles8617 I would also add that the availability of guns is a psychological encouragement for mass violence. I would also say that the culture this creates is party to blame.

[@jaredgreathouse3672]

We can address both mental health AND have reasonable gun policy. You should have to have licenses to own weapons. There should be a three week wait requirement at least, universal background checks... mandated psych evaluations. I can continue, but all of these are very very reasonable policies. They'd both limit the kinds of guns you can get while limiting who can own those guns or at least buy them to begin with.

[@ryri51]

As long as all that is free and paid for by the state then sure. But most of the time all this does is turn guns into a rich mans hobby by charging ridiculous fees. I do not want to create a situation where poor people have to go to illegal Nazi stockpilers to obtain a gun.

[@dillonnauta8601]

Most importantly, ending DV loopholes. 60% of mass shooters have a history with it. Include animal cruelty history with that. Gets rid of shitty cops too.

[@alexwynters600]

What's the threshold for psych evaluations? Are we talking anyone who has had a depressive episode in the last 12 months? What about people with ADHD, autism, bipolar, BPD, or any number of other issues? Are we only talking about people who have a history of anger management issues, because if so then that can apply to a number of the mental disorders mentioned. In short I don't think it's right to say that someone can't own a firearm because X mental condition is associated with y behaviour. Red flags for for past behaviour is another matter. DV, IPV, assault, probably a laundry list of things that we could brainstorm, are all fair game for red flag laws as far as I'm concerned.

[@whysocurious7366]

Also, we need to ban small metal pieces. We need a prohibition of all small pieces of metal that can be assembled into tools like guns. Currently they’re legal and untracked in all 50 states.

[@HaloDrwhoSG1SGASGU]

I think (as an Aussie) is that for gun control to really, actually work as intended in the USA, it would have to come from the federal government. For obvious reasons this isn't gonna happen. If it's just on the state lvl, then all one would have to do is drive on state over on a weekend using Craigslist or whatever to buy your semi-automatic AR-15. Never mind the logistics, America has more guns than people. A program like The buyback program we had in Aus after Port Arthur might actually cause civil war 2 electric boogaloo (now with Nazi's!)

[@kylereese6202]

This is the first video of Vaush I have downvoted, this is actually the first point I disagree with him. He DOES NOT know what he’s talking about here and he is biased. I know he dislikes law enforcement, but they are the positive enforcement mechanism that will be actively getting guns off the street. Good people have and maintain guns + Police actively removing guns from bad dudes. = an eventual (probably within a few years) pretty decent low gun society. He falls into the ‘they will always find a way fallacy’ but why doesn’t that argument work both ways? If we literally gave everyone a gun, wouldn’t criminals just get worse? They would still ‘find a way’ right? they’d probably all become sneaky super assassins I’d imagine.

[@lordlubu3029]

Sadly this is one area that Vaush is hyper bias on and can't overcome. He is a gun nut himself so that doesn't help

[@ombra711]

Gun nuts gonna gun nut. HARD.

[@austindrinksfanta]

Im with you that Vaush is pretty much objectively wrong here but...fuck cops

[@kylereese6202]

I mean, I get the point that if fascists are armed we should be too. But, I guess the line is we could still inact ‘strict’ gun ‘control’ as that would probably limit the amount of weapons fascists could get as I’m sure they would have some red flags that would pop up. National laws that don’t prevent good people from getting guns. I guess the unfortunate thing is we kind of have to trust law enforcement just a bit in this situation. Which is understandably difficult for some leftists. Something like this would work wonders for our entire hemisphere too, as our main export is faster ways to kill people.

[@dartagnanbrown4804]

Melt down ALL the guns and build a mech that shoots guns. Like it shoots out actual guns and not bullets and these guns are empty… but they hurt when they hit you.

[@XIII_Vanitas]

Incredibly funny joke.

[@xXEpicEpic4Xx]

This might be the most Vaush like joke I’ve ever heard/read that didn’t come from himself lol

[@THECHOSENO1NE]

usually agree with Vaush but this is completely wrong. Guns in america are not as ubiquitous as ice in alaska. I cannot fucking find guns raining from the sky and depositing on my driveway. America is not so special that we have guns growing on trees. if you dont seek out a gun then chances are you will not see one in your entire life except on a police officer or security guard. Its sad how Americans are unable to believe that a change in US gun laws would curb future tragedies like this. I think Vaush unfortunately contributes to this. IMO gun control in US should be as much of a no brainer as universal healthcare but still we refuse to do it.

[@leek6927]

Good luck taking guns from right wingers, also you clearly have to live in some liberal suburb or a city to think you have to search for guns to find them. Growing up in a rural area it wasn’t uncommon to see gun cases proudly displayed in peoples houses, my town of under 10,000 people has *2* gun stores, they are quite literally everywhere. Also the fact that you took his hyperbole him actually meaning they are as ubiquitous as ice in Alaska says a lot. Removing guns is a genuinely ridiculous idea compared to more effective checks on who can get there hands on them and better mental healthcare. if far right wing militias start actually taking action as they already have at points I don’t want them to be the only ones with guns, our side needs to be armed too

[@THECHOSENO1NE]

​@@leek6927 Dude I'm sorry but it's delusional to think that the problem with mass shooters is mainly a mental health crisis. The rate of mass shootings in every other country in the world is 10-100x less than the US. Same with gun death in general. On top of that, gun reform in other first world countries have been shown to work in curbing shootings - not mental health reform. We don't need anything crazy to start with, just anything at the federal level that will control access to guns. That's what this conversation should be about - access. The government can actually do something about controlling access to guns, and that is the fundamental point I disagree with Vaush (and probably you) on. WE CAN CONTROL ACCESS TO GUNS. The reason why America has a mass shooter problem is because nobody believes that laws controlling gun access will work. This is the fundamental difference between America and other countries, and it is reflected in the rate of mass shooters.

[@LotharOfTheHillPeople]

The idea that limiting access won't cut down on mass shootings is moronic, sorry Vaush. This could be achieved through common sense reform such as background checks and punishing the owner for misuse. Domestic abusers (60% of killers using guns) would have a much harder time getting ahold of a firearm if background checks were universally required for all transfers of ownership. And especially with school shootings mostly being perpetrated by teenagers who can not legally own the guns they're using, punishment for parents who don't properly store their weapons is a great deterrent. Think about it. Would you be likely to loan a gun to someone if the punishment for them killing someone with it is you being charged as accessory? Would you treat that firearm with respect as the killing machine it is, locking it up and making sure no one has access to it?

[@camerongalles8617]

Have you ever bought a gun? Are you even aware of the current laws in place? This comment sounds pointless to someone who has and does know the current laws

[@LotharOfTheHillPeople]

@@camerongalles8617 Please highlight where I'm wrong.

[@thebigsida6645]

This is the worst take I've seen vaush have. His fee fees and biases for guns are clear.

[@camerongalles8617]

No this is the vaush take that you disagree with the most

[@ThumbSipper]

This is the one case in which Vaush's take in nigh on indistinguishable from a conservative, just ignore the massive amount of evidence against your position and go with what "feels" right for you.

[@camerongalles8617]

Just ignore the massive amount of evidence against your position and go woth what "feels" right for you

[@camerongalles8617]

@@ThumbSipper just pointing out how stupid your comment is

[@katy2176-p3m]

@@camerongalles8617 now repeat it a few more times until it sinks into your gun obssessed brain...it's alright take your time...you can do it

[@conairekerrigan1269]

I agree with you on the majority of stuff you say but you can't really deny that gun control works. It has worked in so many other countries with the same issue why is America any different.

[@Jason-ul3bd]

Yeah it seems like he's obviously biased by his gun hobby.

[@martinsriber7760]

His argument is not that it doesn't work, but that it isn't feasible and doesn't solve the source of the issue.

[@DarksiderDarmoset]

American gun culture. Go try taking weapons away from the far right. If you want the police to do it, how many would cooperate, being far right themselves?

[@sandshark2]

@@martinsriber7760 but it is feasible, as we have seen with Australia. Not only that but the logic “no solution should be done except the solution that addresses the root of the problem” goes against any other left wing position. Why protest for stopping police corruption individually when the real issue is the system itself? Why tax the rich when the real issue is the poverty on the other end? Why decrease military spending when the real issue is the lack of government funding in specific need-based areas? Because all of these things lead to addressing the issue, or indirectly solve them.

[@kurtacus3581]

@@sandshark2 the only problem i see is that half of America would literally start a civil war before selling their guns to the government. You think the right is vitriolic now? Just wait until you pose an actual threat to their guns

[@Osfan]

Vaushes obsession with his edgy and aggressive rhetoric and aesthetic increasingly blinds him to real policy changes that can work to address problems. This video makes it obvious on guns, but it also influences him on a variety of other policies that could make better outcomes for people because bravado and socialism are more important than improving peoples lives in our current framework. Tough to listen to.

[@squarecircle1473]

100%.

[@jnliewmichael4235]

Me from across the ocean, watching this video: 2A really is a religion-cult thing for Americans. It's like listening to an Evangelical Christian about science, or a libertarian about welfare. It's American exceptionalism but with guns, and they truly have an exceptionally humongous amount of them.

[@CrossfacePanda]

They are like that with the whole constitution. Seems like most of them even talk about their “founders” as if they were religious deties who could do no wrong. It’s so weird, and kinda creepy.

[@anjad.3656]

I get this eery feeling anytime I see an American action, apocalypse etc kind of movie. In a lot of them there is so much gun violence, shooting, violence in general. They must be really desensitized to that and think the constant confrontation with weapons and people shooting at each other on TV, in games is normal and somehow weirdly enjoyable? Of course this doesn't lead to real life violence , people play shooter games all around the world. But it's an interesting and weird cultural thing to harp on that much.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

The real opposition to gun control is that it isn't why we have so much violence so it won't fix the violence. Even if you could completely ban guns (which you can't and shouldn't because there ARE legit needs for guns), it would only switch the stats. It wouldn't meaningly contribute to a drop in violence. You'll find more car suicides, for instance. These school shooters aren't going out on a whim to do this. They're planning for months. Part of that planning is what tool to use and where to get it. The absence of guns will force them to spend a few more braincells and Google how to make bombs or poison. Bleach and Ammonia, for instance. This isn't hard stuff. Neither is just making your own gun. Janky pipe guns work well enough if you're not planning to survive. Stop focusing on guns. Focus on violence.

[@lordpessimism]

As an American, I can say you are 100% correct.

[@jnliewmichael4235]

​@@zacheryeckard3051 Well, school stabbings aren't really a thing. It's something that guns can uniquely facilitate. To be fair, I'm not thinking that banning guns should be a thing, specifically in the US. I just think that if Americans want to be that gung-ho about guns, they should be adopting from Swiss gun culture instead, in which civilian ownership of guns is treated the same as military use, where a certain amount of competency is absolutely required, being even stricter than getting a driving license. But then, I've pretty much given up and that I'm going to hear of racial/school/etc shootings occurring in the US for probably the rest of my life. a. The way states work in the US means that the federal government can never truly make substantial systemic and social changes that could make US gun ownership and civilian gun violence mutually exclusive. b. There are just too many fucking guns in the US. Unlike the Kiwis that were able to buy back and destroy a ton of guns, the US has so many guns that, (apparently according to Beau), it would take more than 600 years to destroy all of them if 1 were destroyed per minute. Then again, much like how we should've starting dealing with climate change back in the 1940s, the US should dealt with its proliferation of guns since then. But since that time has long past, we better start now. I would prefer if Vaush XXIV (Vaush the 24rd) in the year 2722 were not making this exact video again much like the past 23 Vaushes.

[@bensanford969]

This is pretty much the only issue that i meaningfully disagree with vaush on: other countries dont have zero mass shootings but they also dont have over 300 per year. Yes people will get guns and do awful things no matter what, but what were talking about is on aggregate not on an individual level. And vaush should know this, he advocates using this same reasoning on other issues

[@em.pxthetic]

My libertarian-leaning ass doesn't want to focus primarily on gun control, but we gotta at least make it harder for people to get them in red states that then sell them in other states where it's harder to get them. This will at least help slow down the process of the baddies getting the guns. But we MUST focus on destigmatizing and bolstering mental health services. They are policies that work together, and not separately.

[@PlatinumAltaria]

Your libertarian-leaning ass should stop using ideology as an excuse to ignore factual reality. I don't care how much you cum thinking about freedom, society is better off without people getting shot.

[@B0ss115]

Anybody who’s in a state of mind to do anything is gonna do that thing but that doesn’t mean we have to make it easy. If that’s your justification we should just not have laws. Most mass shootings are committed with legally purchased firearms. We don’t have uniquely bad mental health in this country and believing conservatives will adequately fund mental health is equally naive. Let’s focus on the problem that will actually fix the issue. “Political will” is a shitty reason to not support an issue

[@1911GreaterThanALL]

Asylums are defunded under Reagan. Name me a place no the planet where mental asylums are defunded at the government level.

[@katy2176-p3m]

the political will isn't and hasn't been very strong on supporting trans rights. would vaush say we should give up on them then? no, of course not. he just likes his guns lol, and doesn't want to have them taken away. very non-based of him to not do something for the greater good of the community. not very socialist - you can't have your socialist utopia and people running around with deadly weapons for shits and giggles

[@Christian.h.]

I don't quite understand why it's always about banning this subtype of gun or that specific magazine size. What about requiring a license to own guns? It would still be perfectly legal to own one. You'd just have to prove you know how to handle and store them and imo pass a mental health screening. Similar to how you're required to have a driver's license to drive a car. That car also has to be registered and insured, the same should go for guns. It's hard to understand why owning guns, not necessary for life in Amerika, is less regulated that driving, which is unfortunately necessary in America.

[@camerongalles8617]

Driving is a privilege owning a gun is a right

[@drbobcat6]

@@camerongalles8617 And yet rights are constrained when they infringe on the rights of other people. We have also taken away certain rights or added others. It's way too simplistic to just say, "it's a right." If no constraints were placed on our right to bear arms, it would be legal for everyone to possess and wield weapons of any sort, even powerful explosives and the like. No good guy with a gun would be able to stop a suitcase filled with enough C4 to level a city block. There are laws in place to limit to what extent people can exercise their right to arm themselves. Driving may not be a right, but it is nonetheless regulated to counteract the harms automobiles can cause. If there is already a precedent to [a] limit the exercise of the 2A, and [b] construct laws to make society safer, it's therefore possible to justify further limitations on weapon ownership. The mere existence of gun regulation itself is not a violation of the 2nd amendment.

[@camerongalles8617]

@@drbobcat6 the 2nd amendment does not infringe on anyone else's rights. Someone that has made the decision to indiscriminately kill as many people as possible doesn't care about what laws are in place or what tool they have to use. Name a single law that could have prevented the 2016 nice france attack... which was more deadly than ANY u.s. mass shooting

[@bananian]

@@camerongalles8617 Then why are they not handed out to everyone for free?

[@camerongalles8617]

@@bananian why would a government ever support their constituents being independent in their security and physically capable of keeping them accountable. They have enough of us disarmed and docile to be able to rub in our faces where they send our money. Places which very few americans would ever vote in favor of

[@jamesmitch9792]

vaush is so wrong about this. "any one who wants a gun will get it either way" if that's true then why don't they? the point is to make guns inaccessible enough so that these crazies are discouraged by it. you can build your own 3D printed guns too but most people don't and will not.

[@bananian]

People overrate 3d printer so much when the printer still has trouble printing a fork and would take 5 hours to do it.

[@land_and_air1250]

@@bananian that’s because you’re using it wrong and there is currently semiautomatic and fully automatic 3D printed gun models out on the internet right now that you can assemble with some hardware tools and a solid 3D printer

[@land_and_air1250]

Any pro banning guns people in America are pro-right wing militias with a gun production black market taking hold all across America. The largest source of homemade gun developers are in America already and would only become more popular

[@bananian]

@@land_and_air1250 Not something most people would have access to or know to access, whatever it is you're talking about.

[@bananian]

@@land_and_air1250 And it doesn't matter that there are models on the internet if the printer itself is of poor quality and poorly calibrated and uses poor quality plastic. I don't know if you've seen actual 3d printing on KZbin and how much effort is needed to print even a simple object properly. I doubt anyone would want to use a crappy printed plastic gun that could explode when used.

[@Kevo6492]

Essentially every piece of available data shows that enacting gun control measures will have a substantial impact on gun violence. Vaush’s biases here is causing him to ignore the data because I think one, he enjoys guns, and two he doesn’t see gun violence as important as other issues. Gun violence impacts I think 55% of Americans though, and even if he holds these biases he should still argue it’s ludicrous how 90% of Americans support universal background checks and that piece of legislation doesn’t even happen. For someone that claims to like democracy he’s way too dismissive of this.

[@BladeValant546]

It doesn't in the USA. Literally inconsistent data, Chicago, New Jersey, and California have strict gun laws but still has similar gun crime rate. Louisiana has the same gun laws as Washington but it has the highest gun violence while Washington state has the lowest. Ffs actually look up the stats.

[@nickmccabe2327]

Why do you have to choose between focusing on mental health issues or gun control? This is a complex issue and just focusing on one solution won't fix it.

[@iangeorge7913]

"Gun restriction is too difficult. Let's instead put an end to reactionary politics." What a brain dead take.

[@wh5601]

What a woeful set of takes from Vaush. At least usually when I disagree with him, I feel like he’s thought about it deeply. Instead, this just feels like he likes guns and so is being incredibly bullheaded and dumb intentionally

[@Tony_Pesta]

Sometimes a creator has a take so bad that it makes me question their entire judgment. This is one of those moments. Jesus, Vaush.

[@Tony_Pesta]

Just a side note, Vaush's friendship and tolerance of ShoeOnHead usually lead to one of those moments, as well. She comes off as dangerously ignorant 99% of the time and Vaush pretty much ALWAYS lets it slide

[@hexogramd8430]

@@Tony_Pesta impressive I disagree with both of these takes lol

[@wright96d]

The only reason you're against gun reform is you don't want to wait an extra month to acquire your shinies.

[@Nick-fn3ou]

When Vaush said, "i like my high capacity magazines, so thats why we shouldn't ban them" he lost me at that point.

[@VanillaEnigma]

Wants to have his cake and eat it too, apparently. Disappointing take.

[@zacheryeckard3051]

They aren't high capacity. Banning a box with grooves and a spring is stupid.

[@Nick-fn3ou]

@@zacheryeckard3051 Nobody needs a magazine that has more than ten rounds. tf is after you??

[@flrnGM]

@@zacheryeckard3051 I'd say make people 3d print their high cap magazines... maybe they find some new passion in their life after learning the tools necessary to do that. See it as a mental health program ... except it bans high cap mags

[@dan2178]

@@Nick-fn3ou nobody needs a pack of cigarettes. Nobody needs a car. Need isn't a reason to criminalize literal tin boxes

[@tobler17]

His logic, "this wouldnt work perfectly in every possible situation and would never pass because republicans," those things are technically true but you know Vaush doesnt accept this on any other issue. It literally applies to his solution, mental health care wouldnt stop every single mass shooting and would never pass because republicans. Go broader, Single payer healthcare wouldnt heal every single person and it would never pass because republicans but he still supports it even tho its a complete overhaul of the entire medical system and arguably a much harder change than every gun control proposal put together. Now we should have better mental health care, we should have single payer, and we should have better gun control laws because all of those would absolutely lower the gun deaths in america, plus just improve everyone's lives. And we know this is true because this isnt a problem in any other country with the aforementioned laws and social safety nets.

[@devildelirious8662]

Noooo don't regulate my wholesome instant kill toy

[@furandice]

Love Vaush’s content but he always has shit gun takes

[@tasillk2824]

Sure it wouldn’t stop it all but any basic gun reform would massively reduce deaths

[@hubikj.1225]

It will be much easier to pass some laws on gun control, rather than FIXING WHOLE SOCIETY

[@rolthox]

Unfortunately, fixing the whole society is probably what it would take to pass said laws. 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@danielheflin6658]

Sure, it's valid that, given the current political climate in America that gun control isn't likely to happen. Sure, there are so many guns that it would take quite some time to take effect and will never be as much so as in other countries, especially without really egregious violations of privacy and threat of violence against people who would likely otherwise not be prone to it. You don't even have to be personally in favor of gun control because you like guns. But you have to be kind of stupid or disingenuous to think that gun control measures aren't the most effective means of preventing gun violence, especially in the long run.

[@Molecular-Brainwaves-Translate]

Japan requires references to vouch for you before purchase of a firearm. Like a neighbor, friend, and relative needs to say "ya he's cool" first. The US military does this for their security clearances as well.

[@a.c.198]

The blasè attitude towards guns is sickening. I get Vaush wants to larp about the revolution or whatever but when kids are being gunned down in schools I think that regulating guns in some capacity is necessary. Vaush's arguments here weren't even fact based it was just "I love guns it sucks that I have to drive a long way to get more firepower"

[@1draigon]

I actually very much disagree with his just buy bigger mags somewhere else reason… shooters don’t buy them. There’s a reason why mass shootings like this don’t happen in canada, Australia, Germany, or basically anywhere else…

[@jonsmith9838]

some of the gun laws suggested are popular. of course you will lose fights if you don't fight hard for it and let the other side paint any reform as banning all guns. and you can do mental issues...ALSO.

[@lookitsgordo]

Without even watching the video, yes. Yes, gun control is a huge part of the answer, but it has to be in tandem with other things.

[@wile123456]

Not a very good segment. A lot of bias and a lot of appeal to intuition. Read some studies and compare to other countries. Yes its still possible to get guns even with restrictions for a mass shooter, but it will be more inconvenient. The inconvenience is the point as it can limit the spontaneous Ness of many of these events. Australia is also a good case study, with a rampant gun culture like America but they effectively took in the guns in 6 months. Its possible. The "it's not possible to confiscate unregistered guns" is simply false and its a thought terminating cliche to claim so. But the public support is a real argument. Its hard to convince red states to any radical policies. But I wish vaush would actually read case studies based on other countries that have had succes/less killings than America. You can also look at Mexico and Brazil for places where gun violence is high despite restrictions.

[@squarecircle1473]

4:30 "I like my high-capacity mags. That's the most important part." Congrats on saying your desire to own a high-capacity mag is most important of all. You literally embody the core of the problem. lol I seriously feel for people in the USA. Good luck on changing this kind of mindset.

[@telepathyclub]

Poor Vaush has to reload more often at the shooting range :'( Truly the most oppressed

[@alexd4566]

“I will need to take a look at this data” Narrator: he didn’t