Is Reproducing A Right Or A Responsibility? | Penuel The Black Pen

Host: Ursula Mariani │Instagram: shortest.link/4RiO
Co-host: Sibonganjalo Botha │ Facebook: shortest.link/55e6
Guest: Penuel The Black Pen | IG: / godpenuel
Technical Director & Videographer: Given Masilela │ Instagram: shortest.link/4RiU
Producer: Sibonganjalo Bonga Botha │ Facebook: shortest.link/55e6
TCC Social Media
TikTok: / theconversationcapital
Instagram: / theconversationcapital
Facebook: / theconversationcapital

[@godpenuel]

Thank you to The Conversation Capital team for the invite and the sitdown. I enjoyed spending time with you guys. I hope ppl benefit from the episode 🙏🏽❤️

[@MrMkhizeSA]

Dammmn pen is God 💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💥

[@cecilmahlaba9369]

Please write a book on your thoughts on utopian Africa. This can be a subject of African studies and philosophy in academic lectures.

[@thatomothoagae7939]

There are some things that I do not tie in with you on but 95% of the things you say are powerful and life-changing......thank you for availing yourself to us❤

[@mhlezuma7267]

Peneul 🔥🔥🔥🔥 you never disappoint 🙌🙌 there’s always something to learn from your conversations noma nini noma kuphi.

[@godpenuel]

@@mhlezuma7267 ngibonge Msholozi 🙏🏽

[@Facts_Only_SA]

One thing about Pen, he listens... he will wait for you to speak until you are done without interjecting. Even if you are putting words in his mouth.

[@godpenuel]

Thank you for noticing 🙏🏽

[@jasonfinger6822]

Ursula is such a good listener. You can tell from her facial expressions that she felt Penuel was absolutely incorrect yet she never interjected. She patiently & respectfully listened. I love this podcast- it genuinely respects all opinions.

[@Facts_Only_SA]

Rather something she doesn't subscribe to instead of "garbage". But hey, we were raised differently and we have different experiences...

[@Mrtdogg101]

🤣🤣🤣

[@jasonfinger6822]

Thank you for this. I've edited the comment​. Apologies@@Facts_Only_SA

[@Facts_Only_SA]

​@@jasonfinger6822All good. However, she seem to agree to a lot of what Pen's saying. This guy is brilliant, he doesn't just spew nonsense. We can argue a lot of what he says simply cuz we are human beings "different", but he supports whatever he believes in. I for one, don't agree to some of his ideologies but that doesn't take away from what he is, he is brilliant.

[@Trader_Gloss]

😂😂😂

[@SiyaNkosi]

I completely disagree with some of penuels ideas on procreation, I love how the crew was able to challenge his opinion on the whole nature vs nurture topic. I think it’s very important we separate opinion from fact. I studied genetics and we did a study on the effects of genetics and environment and how the two equally shape an adult human to be the person they are. He has this weird idea of ‘value’ humans spreading their seed and multiplying to outweigh the ‘mediocre’ human, and unfortunately we are not cattle you can’t selectively breed humans and expect success in future (another study we did in uni). Penuel took the whole genetics aspect and how it shapes humans and he just ran with it , completely disregarding the fact that even with good genetics and a good mating partner it’s still rolling a die from physical value hoping it transfers to offsprings and with genetics anything can be possible, people with seemingly unpleasant physical attributes can give birth to phenomenal humans there is that chance , just as with parents that have desirable attributes can give birth to humans that will be terrible in society and that’s just the game of it really, everyone is taking a gamble when giving birth it’s just that when we think we chose the right mate it makes the gamble more easy to take. My small two cents 😅

[@STARK0181]

Well said!

[@rebirthed4674]

I completely agree with you on this. Humans are complex beings and how we turn out is a combination of genetics, environment and a touch of luck. The 3rd aspect is my opinion based on my own observation of course.

[@SiyaNkosi]

@@rebirthed4674 I’m happy you’re also seeing the issue with the some of his ideas🔥, it’s problematic thinking honestly. Plus his also contributing to the large percentage of families with fathers barely being there or absent because he can’t father all his kids from different moms especially because he’s not committed to any of them or planning on marrying them and raising one big family under one homestead so he’s argument is failing dismally 😅

[@Beighkay]

Crazy, I realised in matric that out of a group of maybe 12 friends only two of us lived in the same household as the parents that birthed us…

[@SiyaNkosi]

Penury is just trying to give another reason for it to be okay for him to keep impregnating women and not necessarily be there to raise them fully because he already gave his so called “good” genes by giving her this supreme pen baby 🫠 instead his raising statistic of single parents households more so the ones that have absent fathers or barely present fathers because he can’t be in all six of his kids lives at ones to be a good present father nje and that’s fact . But ke he can continue spreading his seed with those that agree it’s just sad to see someone with such a big influence as him spread these false ideas that result in broken homes and fathers that don’t take responsibility for who they impregnate and the kids their supposed to be present to raise

[@marcusmlungu7227]

Ursula is a dope interviewer 🔥🔥🔥

[@GKubheka]

The look on Ursula's face when Penuel talks about procreation at the beginning of the episode😂😂😂😂

[@godpenuel]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@yusufmulinya]

She kept quiet 😂😂

[@luyolomfaneksenizulu4997]

Penuels solutions to the current societal problems esp in broken families. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽🔥🔥

[@ingridshabangu3949]

I see why he has 6 children. He confidently sells his perspective and I respect it. This was such a delicious conversation. I can't wait for the unpacking of the God complex. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Ursula's facial expressions made me feel so understood. From the beginning all the way to the yummy end. These are such important conversations. Bravo and Encore!

[@ClearVars]

Penuel never disappoints. As a Penuelist I now know and believe in myself even more because of this guy. Despite some thinking it reckless for him to have many kids, he's a better father than most present dads, a fact many might not know. Give this guy a seat in parliament 😂😂 Great episode-I thoroughly enjoyed it.

[@godpenuel]

I truly appreciate your kind words 🙏🏽❤️

[@sifisosithole9631]

Penuelist 😂😂😂

[@boipelommileng]

"Success is to move as far away from your people as possible." I think having children woke me up to this. Child-bearing has time limit, education and self-development doesn't. I raise my children, I can study when they start formal schooling. Then again you need a village/community to achieve this; a partner who will carry the family and elders who will guide us through this journey. It becomes tricky because we've moved away from that same community to chase the "success". It almost feels abnormal to just want to live out your purpose instead of following a script. Thank you guys for this conversation.❤

[@LimitlessHipHop]

The camera quality here is absolutely brilliant..the production is really second to none ..well done to the production team

[@LimitlessHipHop]

I love this lady hosting ,she is super bright and well spoken and reasons very well ..

[@TumiMS]

Ursula is me, I am Ursula! Her face on some of these comments 😂

[@boipelommileng]

Penuel are "Their father is them."...felt that.

[@timbosch31]

First time viewer. I am so blessed to be a part of our awesome country and our fantastic people. You helped me see this blessing again. Wow we are a special nation. Thank you so much for your amazing work 🙏❤️🇿🇦

[@leratomakwela1077]

It’s so hard imagining an “undisturbed Africa” … but it’s doable 🕯️

[@itscosmicnerd]

This might just be my favourite episode. Ursula's skils as a host shone here, she was so respectful when I know so many others would have wanted to inturrept the guest.

[@TshepangMotloung]

Ursula you smile, excitement and positive vibes gets me every-time and I stay here longer then I should.

[@RoxcyV]

Thank you all who contributed to this beautiful conversation. I love the respect and patience in giving each other space to share without judgment. Continue to put this out and bring Pen back as I didn't want this to end. Love from USA ❤❤❤

[@ndumisosimelane4382]

I HEARD SOME WISDOM SHARED BY OTHERS TO PENUEL, IN HIS PODCAST, AND TODAY PEN ARTICULATED THEM, PEN YOU'RE INDEED A STUDENT OF AFRICANISM IDEOLOGY ❤👌👌👌

[@thulimahlazitha9858]

"The system gains out of the disfunctionality it has created" plain painful truth...tx Pen, your mind is amazing. We need to undo the elitist mindset. The paying of the one who stays at home, is really powerful and can work...i wish it can be law

[@RizzMedalion]

I had taken a Penuel detox for a couple of months unsubscribed from most of his content not because the guys is a bad person or anything but mainly because he is hella influential, hate him or love him there is a solid reasoning behind his ideologies and most ppl's reasoning capabilities are too low to comprehend such complex and dynamic individuals. But back to me and why I chose to go on a fast from his content, I had consumed so much of his content I needed to step outside of this lil bubble I had created for myself with most of his material and just be more subjective and try combine his wisdom with mine. Now I'm back baybee!!! We need more ppl like Pen in our communities man, ppl that will expand your traditional way of thinking and reasoning. Penuel for the youth.

[@godpenuel]

You're way too kind 🙏🏽 I really support fasting from ppl you can feel are influencing your mind... I hope it was good for you. You must do it more often & rest your mind.

[@qhawemlangeni3094]

The reason why so many of us have two names (Western and traditional) was for us to be accepted and to thrive in two different communities. Our parents knew that and provisioned for it. It would be ideal if we were to have the same mentality moving forward when it comes to our way of life, grounded in traditions that serve us well, but also be able to adapt and answer to modern day challenges.

[@sibonisosibiya9218]

This is very true, principles of yesterday are still valid today but the only difference is they were made in time to tackle yesterday’s challenges,so without moving removing too much we should look for todays solutions for todays challenges. It’s bit of both like you said, keeping the English etc. Also have men today who will accept that today’s women aren’t like our mothers they ambitious driven how then do we stabilise marriage/partnership without dimmming the light of the other. I loved this episode.

[@okayalright8628]

What confuses me the most is how he doesn’t understand nurture and only emphasises the environment aspect when speaking about nurture. Fathers need to be there to model behaviour at home, a boy must watch his father in the day to day. He thinks nurture is limited to activities and books. Crazy. Follow Christ

[@leratoseloma599]

This is intense

[@user-co9fn3cm7h]

Lol you missed his point.

[@okayalright8628]

What’s the point?

[@simmonsgwara5757]

I saw confusion of long term relationships (mjolo) vs life time commitment (marriage). In my opinion this conversation is all about mjolo. There shouldn’t be an exit strategy in lifetime commitment or marriage.

[@JostleMedia]

Sorry guys Ursula Mariani has one the beautiful smiles in the world and her eyes wow. I'm not flirting . Any way I enjoy the show and Panuel interview.

[@mahlakematuludi4239]

This is quite disheartening because Penuel represents men who have disconnected themselves from being present parents and this has nothing to do with the role of a mother or of a father but just being a parent to a human being you consciously created and then say that your DNA will be enough for that child to represent greatness in this world is concieted... children are raised by people and the consistent efforts they contribute to making that particular child better and for me that is showing up for that child everyday.

[@thaboshikwambane5578]

I’m with you. Maybe the cat’s learning too.

[@nosisibango7104]

Conversationalists that's us lol

[@Conversations_w.ntsako]

"Be fruitful and multiply "that's it!

[@ntuthukomdluli-pd9jv]

Ah no

[@user-tk7mj5sq4k]

When you put two smart people in one room you get this 🔥 🔥 beautiful and insightful episode.I love you guys.

[@bonganimzamo7939]

No man the conversion was just fire. A solution's driven conversation that offers practical methods of how to bring about the change we would like to see 🙌🙌 a huge Big ups to you guys

[@Mrtdogg101]

Here is my take from the episode: First things first, I watched Dirty John: The Betty Broderick story. Wow I'm still amazed I had no idea about the case which has captured the imaginations of millions for years. I love how they captured her emotions in a way that I assume many victims of infidelity would understand. The best part was when the psychologist was in a step by step breakdown was explaining how the infidel contributed to the actions and feelings of the aggrieved by making them to feel guilty and crazy about something which was actually true. Compare and contrast that with Penuel's view that people should just get over it...that's not how the real world works botie! Whereas Pen is an articulate smart and logical guy who has answers for everything many of his solutions wont just work in the real world because people are not wired that way. He would know that himself. That is why he like many in media should be consumed with a pinch of salt, just like you might get some gems and nuggets from your favorite telenova at the end of the day its still just entertainment. People are unpredictable, people are dangerous so the more affairs and connections you have with people especially permanent ones like kids the complicated your life would be, you might have the perfect plan but life is unpredictable, so having multiple kids with multiple women that may also have kids with their respective partners is just a putting things in a pressure cooker which many explode anytime. While it may work for Pen its hardly advice anyone else should seek. In the story of Betty, it would be dope if the CC team could invite a criminologist to come to chop it up about people especially women that kill. Are we all potential killers? What drives one over the edge? Should people be absolved because of mental health? As a man Im particularly interested in the women part because unfortunately guys just do it for sport at this point, I have lost a lot of female friends because their lives have been cut short at the slightest infraction, so I don't really give a damn about guys at this point but it would be dope to have an expert at least give us a baseline research on why killers kill. Its a pandemic at this point.

[@JustFrago]

Thank you for the lovely conversation. I think it's best not to have a community name, Pen is coming with his God complex stuff here, jiki jiki we have a cult 🤣🤣🤣

[@godpenuel]

😂😂😂

[@nomms9653]

Beautiful conversation... most of us have this utopian idea. Yes colonianism happened to us but it doesn't have to be the end of us!

[@itumelengmpofu]

We definitely need a part 3

[@mphomalete4701]

Im so tired of this dude decorating his flaws.... no one wakes up and decides to have six kids with 4 different women🙄🙄

[@molebohengmaphepha80]

I agree, I think over time he just found a way to make it look "okay" even though it is not, his ego is too big to acknowledge that he messed up.

[@thabilemayeza6812]

Well articulated 😢, very sad to watch

[@noxolondhlovu1115]

Agreed! Kids need their parents time and affection but making too many robs the kids of all that including love. This guy is just missing the point

[@ctm2594]

This is a guy who believes that he is God guys😢. He is getting way tooooo much attention. He has chosen a radical mindset to make his brand.

[@godpenuel]

😂😂😂😂😂 I'm sorry that my life choices bug you 🙏🏽

[@hlengiwedube1163]

Glad to be here❤

[@MandisaManci]

Penuel is the blueprint! Argh I'm in awe of the whole team, very eye-opening conversation.

[@zamaguma99]

We need more of this, I am loving the crossover episodes

[@menzimsane2680]

I'm going to watch this over and over again.

[@DopeStuffOnly]

Dope conversation.

[@Vince_78]

"Colonialism has made us to believe that for a black child to be successful you have to move away from your community " 😮😮😮 👌🏿

[@mikesishi8471]

Penuel cooking as always.Ursula being her normal lovely self, did think she would struggle as I always find her very close-minded and that Yes Yes echo chamber she's created with Given + Bonga always limits varied views but ja this convo had a good range

[@thaboshikwambane5578]

Fully with you. Penuel’s a great guest here. He balances the energies

[@VoiceOfReason579]

Fantastic conversation

[@kolz6327]

i have only listened to clips of Penuel , i just followed you i like the way he nver puts anyone down we can fix a lot of our olonial issues by working together as a community

[@lincolnlubisi6454]

Dope Episode

[@kennymokalane3015]

Beautiful conversation, I also love how you guys visit each other's shows and share content. One this conventional television will never do. Thank God for you guys and the freedom KZbin provides u. Much love ❤

[@SiyaDube]

First watching the show... what a beautiful conversation you guys had with @GodPenuel 😃!!!

[@zandicarter5113]

Enlightening conversation 🎉 we also had a sudden onset of new male recruits because our female manager said that we were taking too much PTO in maternity leave.

[@sechabadiphoko6465]

Penuel u blew my mind bro 🙌🏽👏🏾👏🏾

[@thilimuller851]

One of the best episodes,very formative,it’s podcast like this one that can really make a difference in our society 🙏🏻i thank you guys

[@nathanielwillex1359]

Beautiful host🎉

[@katynyambi7010]

43:38 There are a few tribes that are matriarchal culturally culturally but majority of African cultures that are matriarchal. But each according to his own.

[@FXwealth2030]

dope conversation. .

[@bigthangz5489]

how "well suited"/"g0od natured" are the mothers of penuel's kids since they are forever battling him in court ??!??

[@godpenuel]

Only one mother is a problem. The other 2, we went to family advocates coz of disagreements over primary residence. It's mediation... because sadly families don't offer these solutions anymore.

[@julietmatsobane2155]

I Loooooooove Ursula ❤❤❤❤❤and her questioningpoint 🎉... In other news "kopa plug ya di braids👌🏾👌🏾"...

[@miss.n6582]

Ursula weeeh! In my head, nna, wena, Given and Bonga rr di besties. Le wise. LOVE you guys. Top tier conversations from a different angle. Love that. I watch and listen and thereafter i do some thinking after every episode . Keep it up!

[@TheQuickTake8901]

Thank you ❤

[@R1M1r1m1]

I don't even like the term quality when it comes to a human being that is Western ideology. With that being said lot of these "quality" people don't produce quality children. A family can have multiple children and they all turn out differently. Like Ursula said it's the upbringing and the community needs to take part in the upbringing. As far as the population deficit, that's a yt ppl problem. I know many women who gave birth to children in their 40s including my grandmother and mother. Penuel you are speaking my language with the de colonization project.

[@MandisaManci]

You got yourself a subscriber!!

[@zammyzee8073]

Penuel is an awesome conversationalist shem😂. Also we are the TCC fam. There's so much to say about so much that was said. I was continuously provoked but thoughtfully so. Akabuye azosichazela kabanzi ngobu Nkulunkulu bakhe

[@godpenuel]

😊❤️

[@babyboyry9541]

Pen is brilliant. Always a good listen.

[@TyrantGalleryTV]

Penuel have a nice way of dropping his points.. world class debater

[@OsKaRR]

7:48 Ursula. Check out the Reinforcement Theory in Human Behavioural Psychology.

[@pamelamkhize1070]

Agreed single parenting was never the ideal.

[@InnocentTinasheMutero]

Modern families often struggle due to an emphasis on achievement over meaningful relationships, one might argue that the decision to limit family size to one child, justified by concerns over time and capacity for childcare, overlooks the potential support available from extended family members who could contribute to caregiving responsibilities. My observation on marital failures in South Africa, is that it appears that societal messaging downplays the significance of marriage as an achievement, while promoting individual sexual freedoms (read sleeping around/mjolo) over the stability of a family unit. This cultural shift, is worsened by the historical legacy of apartheid, has contributed to the fragmentation of familial bonds, and undermines the importance of a two-parent household for the well-being of children. I know these are very sweeping and simplistic statements but there are my views nonetheless...I wish I made kids early, waited for degrees. MISTAKE!

[@godpenuel]

Very valuable thoughts here and I agree mostly with you. We need to rewire our engineering.

[@thaboshikwambane5578]

Seems like you’re a man. You wish you started earlier? Most of the online advice is telling men to start at around age 35 with marriage and having a child because of how rough the game currently is. It’s rough psychologically, rough financially, etc. If one preps properly then by 35, you’re in a great space to pick an elite woman that you wouldn’t have been able to pull or satisfy when you were say 24 or 28 or even 30. Interested to hear your thoughts on this? Because a man’s fertility doesn’t decrease as sharply as a woman’s so we have the luxury of time and preparation

[@ndumisodlamini711]

Wish was part of the conversation. Nevertheless, as a woman you are responsible for choosing correctly. Choose someone who will appreciate and support you holistically. Our mistakes equally so, we have failed ourselves when it comes to love relationships. Choose WISELY! Mr Pen, I will appreciate you do not and dare not commercialize love relationship. It is such mentality and narrative that destroy. Honestly, I have high respect for you. I listen to you a lot. In fact am listening and watching this podcast, simple to listen to you. My contribution.

[@tsietsipesa1817]

I wish this could happen every second week or monthly. Beautiful minds, beautiful perspectives. I'm enriched.

[@misskaykay1856]

😂😂😂😂 ayy yeah this Pen guy neh. Great conversation though 🎉❤

[@takundamahachi17]

Quite an interesting conversation Team. Penuel kudos to all your points. Im afraid you are giving windows 98, windows 10 format it will crash. But i would dare try see who these concepts look like these would be amazing.

[@ndumiemzamo]

🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌 High level conversation.

[@SuperSiya84]

Disappointing though because they don't understand that we are victims of psychological vandalism by the Europeans. Penuel kept coming in and out of it, as if the truth and reality are two different things.

[@s.s.nxumalo]

🎯 conversation

[@lebogangmotingoe17]

Am I the only one who felt like the episode is too short😢 Huge huge S/O to #The_Conversation_Capital and #Penuel_the _black_pen🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🙌💯

[@happym3585]

It’s always so interesting listening to Penz views on pro creation. Enjoyed this episode thank you 🙏🏻

[@godpenuel]

Thank you for tuning... we all appreciate you guys listening to us, engaging & offering feedback.

[@masegoranaka7252]

I haven't watched the Netflix series on Dirty Betty but I've watched the Betty Broderick story many times over the years, since child from Oprah to Discovery ID now. It is very sad and really does make you think that you need to be cognisant of the desions you make in a union and whether or not you'll be okay with it if that person that you sacrificed for left you.

[@MissTeeDOTMHG]

I can’t seem to find Dirty betty on Netflix…. What’s the name of this one you watched???

[@thandokhoza9577]

29:00, she just mentioned a story synonymous to acrimony produced by Tyler perry 🔥🔥🔥

[@bheepeey]

Thoroughly enjoyed this conversation! Good job guys! You bring out the best in each other, differing without judging. Kudos!

[@katynyambi7010]

39:41 You are right about this. I and my partner strongly work towards not being influenced by the colonial misinformation that is widely available on the internet.

[@thulintshole3155]

Such a huge fan of Ursula…😍😍…So much grace…😌😌

[@carollugulwana8811]

Enjoyed this conversation. Siyakhula, siyafunda❤️

[@bhekithembanyembe6444]

Moment of silence was classic.

[@thabomaduna6423]

Conversations which we need to have. For me marriage requires one to focus more on other (Wife and Kids) more than self. In a way, it requires the self to die for a service greater than oneself.

[@itumelengbadumedi5962]

Abuti Pen and ausi Ursula ba tshwanelana .let's give them our blessings ✌🏾

[@thabisilemtshweni7615]

😅 💯

[@siphokaziqasana4863]

I don't usually agree with Penuel but this time I agree with his point on nature being as important as nurture when it comes to procreation.

[@ditiloshupinyaneng9362]

Phenyo…is my People I resonate…what he just explained…is the my involuntary projected path I’m being led to…the work has already begun…causes sleepless nights…it’s kinda abstract and unchartered but it intuitively on point…

[@ndumisoqolintaba8224]

I’m watching when I get home 😊

[@thabomomoti5619]

Shout out to all the Capitalist. Lets go.

[@hlulanishihlomule688]

Nature will trump nurture almost 100% of the time. Kids with nature & nurture are unstoppable. 10yrs ago my daughter’s aftercare teacher (an elderly woman) asked my wife and I to make more kids because we make smart kids. Her view agrees with Penuel’s view.

[@sihl3n]

Penuel must be taking a piss at this point. Well articulated on some farfetch superficial world order ideas. 😂😂😂 Ursula has patience for days to hold this convo

[@ephraimmotho887]

This was such a beautiful conversation☺☺☺

[@katynyambi7010]

7:20 The degree of effectiveness of the nurture inputed largely relies on nature. Genetic information passed on and personality type largely influence a person's capacity to be something great. But social class, level of education, etc also are important factors.

[@bheepeey]

His thought about how nature largely determines success is consistent with his worldview that eliminates God in the generic sense although it is not accurate. God is the equalizer. The wisest man Solomon made this observation about life, "The race is not for the swift, nor the battle for the strong, not bread for the wise, but time and chance happens to them all"

[@lady_germ_stone1517]

Penuels next Baby Mama must be inteviewd how did you agree and Why 😮😮😢😢

[@kuhleteady4418]

Pen is in the house 🔥🔥

[@S.P.H.E]

Sbonge 🙌🏾

[@ayerzmabinda91]

Penuel 🙌🙌🙌🙌

[@richardmantu2201]

This conversations are next level. Mindset preparations for the next century of world dominations as a people

[@osinomhlephiri558]

We lost alot of our traditional values and role. Each person has an important role in the family, e.g Rrakgadi, Malome, Mmangwane etc.. our African family and community structure worked, we suffer today because we have abandoned most of it.

[@simonnjuguna8388]

Penuel, you can't be talking about having children while you have such a beautiful and intelligent lady there. I have just googled her. On a serious note, whatever you guys spoke about addressed the fears of young Africans. The European template (education system) is to create a mind that can serve the corporates. Let's serve ourselves!