Is The Timemore Sculptor 078s Over-Hyped?

[@yakofdez4698]

The grinder is finally reaching backers and it looks like Charlie was right all along, it channels like crazy untill you put an insane amount of coffee through it (around 7 Kg). Some reviewers called it "unusable" for espresso until the burrs are seasoned. Then it magically starts producing good espresso. I wonder why only Charlie noticed and reported this issue. I mean, if you're a reviewer this problem is hard to miss, isn't it? So weird that nobody else pointed it out...🤔

[@homecafecharlie]

I don't know about other reviewers and all the ones I know are super honest about their experience, but I can tell you in my experience and other reviewers I talk to there's a lot of pressure to only say nice things about coffee companies. If you don't you get blacklisted and you'll never receive gear before release, which will harm your channel. I got a lot of backlash for saying what I said about the Sculptor.

[@yakofdez4698]

@@homecafecharlie Well, time proved you right. Every single new review is saying exactly what you said months ago. Thanks for your honesty. I didn't back the Sculptor mainly because I didn't like some things you pointed out in your review that turned out to be true, so thank you.

[@Yirgamalabar]

My best guess is that Timemore made sure to season the burrs of review units before shipping, and they don't bother to do it with production units. What else could it be?

[@yakofdez4698]

@@Yirgamalabar @Yirgamalabar Well, they definitely didn't season the burrs of Charlie's unit. xD I hope only the 078S is affected by this issue, but since Charlie didn't review the 064S we can't know for sure. It's a shame because I like this grinder a lot, so I feel a bit disappointed. I know it's something temporary and it eventually will be able to produce good espresso, but having to put 7 Kg of coffee through the grinder before that happens... I don't think that's reasonable, I mean, that's the amount of coffee I use in half a year. I'll probably go for the DF64V or the new DF64 Gen 2 with SSP Cast burrs, but again, it's a shame, I personally find the 078S and 064S way more beautiful than those other grinders.

[@cichlisuite2]

@@homecafecharlie Some other reviewers still deny that there is unavoidable pressure (conscious or unconscious) when you're reliant on being sent things from manufacturers. I appreciate that you acknowledge that pressure and that you call it as you see it in the review. In the long run this will work in your favour as people will realise you're a reliable, honest reviewer and so the reviews you give will carry more weight. Thanks for the honesty. I backed a 078s and hadn't discovered your channel or seen this video. Had I seen it I likely would have gone with the 078 but oh well. I knew there was some tradeoff but I hoped to get a good compromise as I don't have space for multiple grinders and don't have the budget at the moment for multiple grinders either. I will see how it goes once it arrives and once it has had a lot of seasoning.

[@iangp1113]

I've backed the 078s and the few reviews on it there have tempted me to cancel my order as I do like juicier and sweeter shots, but the launch price and overall pros have kept me with it. Reviews like this have tempered my expectations, but since I have only ever used conical hand grinders, this should still be a fantastic upgrade in both the cup and workflow.

[@joshk528]

What grinder would you say offers better clarity at the same price point?

[@homecafecharlie]

DF83 is only slightly more but much more clarity

[@BensCoffeeRants]

7:30 I'm confused about your #'s chart. Top number is the LOW rpm test and bottom number is the higher RPM?

[@homecafecharlie]

They are all high RPM, just did it twice to see how much difference there was

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@homecafecharlie Shouldn't you compare vs Low RPM to see the differences though? And that's quite a difference in distribution for the light roast between the two tests, they were done at the same RPM and grind size!?

[@df540148]

Backed the 78s and glad to see a more thorough breakdown of how it does with espresso since that will be my use case for it pretty much exclusively. I tend to er on the traditional espresso style so I think this will work well for me and will be a nice upgrade.

[@homecafecharlie]

Good to know! You'll enjoy it if you're into thick juicy shots 😍

[@bettercoffeequest]

Let's see how it goes. I backed it too. And I like my espresso nice and thick. (My go to drink is not an espresso btw!)

[@NubRusty]

What grinder (that is similarly priced) gives you the clear shots?

[@addison5562]

I'll like to know as well :)

[@MadScientist7]

Yes, I’d like to know too

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Lots of 64mm options out there. There will be SSP 78mm burrs most likely for those who get the 078s and don't love the burrs.

[@NubRusty]

@@BensCoffeeRants cool. which one?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@NubRusty Zerno if you want quality with ssp MP burrs. Or on a budget there's DF64

[@jaaykke]

@homecafebycharlie for an all arounder would you go with the 078s or df64 with ssp mp? The price is pretty close.

[@homecafecharlie]

DF64 with SSP burrs will give more clarity. I don't like the burrs on the 078s much, but I have SSP burrs in the DF83 and they are 🔥

[@jaaykke]

fire for pour over or espresso or both@@homecafecharlie

[@homecafecharlie]

@@jaaykke I mostly do espresso so it's great for that. Pour over I am not the right person to judge as I only really have it with very unusual coffees.

[@JohnZ556]

Already got a P64 w/ SSP MP for filter and modern espresso. I believe the build/parts quality and a powerful motor is required to maintain the full potential of unimodal flat burrs. Backed 078S for the traditional style espresso, milk drink, and iced coffee end of the spectrum. I guess a bit of RDT would help a lot, especially in a dry environment. And I intended to keep the RPM somewhere in the middle for the most part, or I'll have to place a small mirror to see the dial.

[@pablosanmartinvarela1773]

Thanks for the review! I'm wondering whether the rpm test was run at the same grind setting (0.8?) or the same shot time. I think it has been observed in the past that rpm affects grind size but not distribution. Could your results be consistent with that hypothesis? (Bracketing all caveats about sifting vs. laser analysis.)

[@homecafecharlie]

I don't have the equipment for a laser analysis, but yes all the tests were the same grind setting

[@philthy4654]

would seasoning the burrs heavily change the channelling issues?

[@davelasker]

Thanks for a great review! When using the rotary knocker, do you brew the fines that get knocked out, or do you discard them?

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Good question, it looks like a lot, he's got some pretty bad static there it seems, and I asked others that as well, I doubt it's ALL fines and chaff for espresso, but might have a higher concentration of them, so it could be beneficial for flavour clarity to NOT include those, but then you're wasting coffee and may need to adjust the amount you're putting in. I'm curious to try including and excluding it and see if you can taste the differences. If not I'd rather include it and not waste anything and keep workflow simple. For Filter / coarser brewing I think it would be mostly chaff and fines there (and less retention overall) so it would be best to not include those.

[@homecafecharlie]

I usually brew them. I just knock them into the cup. Seems like a weird workflow to discard the ones with the most static.

[@taylorwhite3636]

I'm excited about the knocker and the catch cup. I like that both attract static charged fines and chaff. Will use those to separate and toss out a lot of the chaff and some of the finer grinds.

[@louismurphy1403]

Great, honest and balanced review! I prefer a similar style espresso to you. So what grinders at a similar price point would you say are better options? Thanks 😊

[@BensCoffeeRants]

If you already backed the grinder, there's likely going to be alternative burrs out which might be the route I go, although I do like to have one more traditional /blended profile grinder so this MIGHT be it. DF83 is kind of similar in that way, but I don't feel like it's lacking flavour clarity. That's the main competitor, or Niche Duo, or one of the many many 64mm burr grinder options.

[@homecafecharlie]

My favourite flat burrs right now are the DF83 stock. I may try with SSP burrs in the future when I have time to make a video about them

[@victorbarroscoch]

So, after the grinder has arrived for most backers all over the world, it seems that channeling and seasoning aren't as big a problem as previously thought. I don't know if the burr manufacturing process was adjusted since the first batch, but some other aspects of the grinder definitely were (i.e. burr carrier stabilizer pins). Anyway, now that we have a higher understanding of how the grinder works, the problems in this video are even more certain to be alignment and puck prep related. The grind size being 0.8 indicates this, for unaligned burrs will grind coarser and with less fines, resulting in a lower grind setting at the dial. Most people I've seen are grinding for espresso between 2 and 3 (and myself at 4 - 4.5). The 078s, especially unaligned and at higher rpm settings, will not produce enough fines for an easy to pull espresso shot, and it has a bit of a static problem, meaning the grinds are potentially clumpy and difficult to distribute evenly. Without proper technique this can indeed make channeling more likely.

[@MaximPospelov]

Which options at similar prices do you know of that you mentioned at the end of the video?

[@homecafecharlie]

I didn't want to recommend specific grinders in the video, but the DF83 is only slightly more expensive and in my opinion produces a much more exciting flavour.

[@theziway]

First! Beautiful close-ups of the 078s Charlie, thanks for the detailed review. It was worth the wait

[@briers9]

Backed the 78s - good impartial review. Pleased to hear the grinder in form and function is very good. Sounds like it may have quirks, most grinders do until you get into very high price points. I will be interested to see what a set of HU burrs produce when they become available. I think at that point it will be a very very compelling grinder with options between taste profiles depending on burr set.

[@homecafecharlie]

I think the burr architecture is the main issue with it, but the workflow is super solid!

[@jamousg]

@@homecafecharlie hey Charlie, sorry to jump in here. But I wanted to ask if you gave the 078s another shot with additional seasoning, and if the channeling are still there. Thank You

[@hipponax]

so the quick bullet here-great review but for clarity what’s your go to? Believe it or not thr hand grinder King Grinder K6 seems to do pretty well

[@JLeverEspresso]

Hi Charlie, great vid as always, that type of ring channelling that you're getting comes about for a few reasons, one of which is what you mention more fines, leading to a greater probability of air-locking as I described in my vid... but your espresso machine might need a slightly longer preinfusion in combination with a slightly higher preinfusion pressure, this will 1) put more back-pressure on the puck which closes of the side-channels tighter, but 2) stop the machine from going full pressure at exactly the wrong moment when the puck's face is still not filled, which of course air-locks the centre, while the sides have all fines evacuated already. The other thing is to reduce the puck thickness in the centre, are you using a flat tamper? Cos that basket looks slightly curved, hence you've got a lot of thickness in the centre for the water to get through. Try a curved tamper for your curved basket, the larger your dose, the larger the curve required. Lastly, the other way to combat air locking is a paper filter, this helps, but air-locking is really an issue inside the puck.

[@homecafecharlie]

Good advice, I'll try that. I've been using a 3bar pre-infusion for 6-10 seconds on the Leva and found that to be the best middle ground, but yes it is a flat tamp and I hadn't thought to use a curved one. I'll see if I can get one and give it a try. I don't always get rings, it happened a lot more with the Sculptor, especially on higher RPMs and I assumed it was down to the greater variance in particle size.

[@JLeverEspresso]

@@homecafecharlie you're certainly onto something with the greater variance causing it, it makes perfect sense why a larger variance would causes something like that... I'd be interesting to know any of what I mention fixes it... but your vid certainly opened my eyes to yet another reason for that type of ringing... i thought i understood all the reasons.

[@homecafecharlie]

I've ordered a puck screen for 54mm, and I tried higher pre infusion pressure, less coffee in the basket (also used the other 21g basket) and still having the same issue with high RPM generally causing channelling. It's intermittent, not every shot, which to me is further evidence of the inconsistency of grind distribution at high RPMs. I guess all the people thinking it must be user error will find out when they receive their machines.

[@paulevo511]

I agree with your comments, JL.

[@Foolsauce]

Nice review. In the sifting section, could you explain the data to me? Is the top line for each roast level at low RPM and the bottom at high RPM, all at the same grind setting of 0.8? Thanks!

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I was confused by that as well, but that's what I was thinking.

[@Red.exe7]

8:40 can you elaborate on this point a bit please, thank you.

[@homecafecharlie]

I didn't want to suggest specific grinders in this review but I have my DF83 on my table at the moment. I have other reviews on the channel and there are lots of recommendations in groups. I don't wanna suggest grinders I haven't used 😅

[@dominikcoltko3518]

Hi mate, nice review I'm curious to try it in person when my friend gets it, hopefully won't have to shim it. That's pain in the butt. I have one small thing to point out. Heavy and juicy are opposite things when describing coffee. I know it!s mainly competition mambo jumbo but it might be better to be on the same page not to confuse people next time they read descriptors on the bag.

[@homecafecharlie]

Thanks for the heads up. I've never entered a barista competition, I'm using layman's terms but perhaps it would be good to explain more clearly what I mean. Hard to be super precise without being annoying to the majority of normal viewers though

[@zonkex]

Coming from a modded Eureka Mignon Silenzio, i am looking forward to the much better workflow for single shots. But i am curious if i will take a better shot overall in the same profile that Silenzio is giving. Any thoughts on this ?

[@tagheuer02]

Based upon this review it sounds like your shots will be channeling and sputtering. Not sure why you would want that

[@homecafecharlie]

I'm not sure how much of an upgrade it will be as I've only used a Mignon Silencio once. The build quality is definitely much better

[@aralshammari]

How’s the 078s for filter coffee? It seems everyone focuses filter on the 078

[@christinefeaster4102]

The 078s shines in espresso but is kinda flat on filter coffee. 078 is the hands down winner for filter coffee between the two.

[@choyhsien]

Nice video. Your thoughts seem to be in line with what we've heard from others. Interesting sifting results as well.

[@homecafecharlie]

I haven't watched any other reviews yet cos I didn't want to be influenced by others. I'll go watch some now that this is up and see what others said

[@mikni4069]

The grinder in itself look like very good value for money and at this price it look more like a complete product then many others. While the profile is certainly a personal preference it was the earliest description of profiles that got me to cancel alongside the very limited range in espresso. Now it dos seem the fundamental is in place and Timemore already promised a add on solutions with more range that can be swapped in so that should solve the limitations in range eventually and I also believe they themselves said more burrs will come from them down the line. It always a question if Hansung will deliver I think Lance send him a version, and should be evaluating on if burrs are something he wants too do, so it’s not entirely cut out in stones just yet… for the people who backed I hope he dos as it would make it a very attractive competitor to the Niche Duo.

[@tvanarnhem]

Great video. May I ask which scale you’re using?

[@homecafecharlie]

I think I put a link in the description!

[@tvanarnhem]

@@homecafecharlie Thanks, should have checked that first :-)

[@YonsungLee]

What are the higher-clarity options available at similar prices?

[@mikni4069]

None in stock really fit that description well, to get really higher clarity at this price point you need to toss SSP MP burrs or get the Pietro hand grinder… You need to pay a rather substantial amount up front to get it delivered with said burr like plus $1300 Ssp are around $200 for the 64mm and around twice that on 80-83mm burrs. Now I haven’t tested this burr, so there might be some flat stock burrs that aren’t SSP with slightly more clarity but neither of those are really unimodal and clarity focused burrs

[@oliverr.3718]

Is the grind size dial made out of metal or plastic?

[@homecafecharlie]

Seems like a heavy grade plastic to me.

[@richardmiddleton7770]

Just received an 078s and initial set the dial to 1 and the grounds were like a fine dust! Way too fine. At shot number 3 I was at 4.5 and got 18 in, 36 out in 24s and it tasted nice! I didn't moisten the beans so got quite a bit of static/clumping which makes WDT tricky. Other than that, it was fine! I can't see me needing to put 5kg of beans through to 'season', it's fine out of the box for me.

[@patompoomwichitchoti6051]

Can you check alignment with whiteboard market ?

[@homecafecharlie]

Will do, I asked Timemore and they told me how to make sure it was aligned so it should be good. If I find anything I'll post about it

[@user-sg5ri4st5m]

​@@homecafecharlie could you please elaborate on how to check alignment according timemore ? (I backed the 78s too)

[@douglaswarden618]

I am still in on the Kickstarter for the 78's and feel that I will still be happy with it based on what you have said. The only point was the narrower dial in zone. I had heard that before but for the money (as Kickstarter) I still feel fine. I am more a syruppy darker guy for my esspresso anyway. Stll feel this gives me a big step up from my XOX 40mm conical burr grinder and should still do much better for pour overs and mocha pot and French press too.

[@homecafecharlie]

I'm sure you'll be happy with it. A big upgrade from what you have and syrupy shots it will do.

[@tagheuer02]

Just make sure to not use any RPM higher than the lowest setting otherwise your shots will be channeling and sputtering like crazy

[@douglaswarden618]

@@tagheuer02 Update: Well I have had this for about a month now and am honestly very pleased. Shots are fuller and more complex than I had before. I have been using RPM 1100 as standard with no channelling and no seasoning. No metal taste or anything but happy shots. I have a very good nose and palate and can cook / bake too. I say that last as I am disering and can pick out ingrediants with ease. I am still experimenting but am very happy esspecilly for the kickstarter price I paid.

[@Almansoori.]

Your review it’s really clear Thx

[@mynameismike101]

In Kyle Roswell’s giant grinder showdown video, he said it took 10 kilos of coffee to season the 078s burrs. He experienced a lot of channelling before the burrs were seasoned and distribution improved over time. In another video Kyle says the 078s has similar geometry to the Weber eg-1 core burrs and 078s produces good clarity and sweetness.

[@homecafecharlie]

Ok I trust Kyle, so let's say he is right and the grinder gets better after 10kg of coffee. How much does 10kg of coffee cost? In the UK average price for non-speciality coffee is about £8 for 250g, so at £32 per kilo we're talking about £320 to season the burrs, about 2/3 the price of the grinder itself. And that's just for cheap coffee. If the burr architecture or materials require this much seasoning, it should be done in the factory, not waste customers coffee. My complaint about the grinder stands.

[@mynameismike101]

⁠@@homecafecharlieSorry I edited my comment, I forgot to mention the Weber burr comparison. I agree with you it’s a fair complaint, Timemore should do some factory pre seasoning. I guess backers would just have to “suffer” for a while before they get the most out of the grinder. It would be interesting to hear your long term thoughts on the 078s.

[@lilteyang]

Great video. If I may, is the 078s' lack of clarity on the Niche Zero level, or just compared to other flat burrs? I currently have a DF64, and the stock itamill is already very much conical-like, is the 078s even less clear?

[@homecafecharlie]

I think the 64 has more clarity than the 078s. I've owned both

[@lilteyang]

@@homecafecharlie WOW! So the 078s is on NICHE Zero level of PSD, that's not good news😔

[@TheGroundedCoffee]

So happy I stepped away from my pledge for the 078s in favor of my DF64! I first decided to go 078 instead but let go of that and went for a ZP6 instead. I think I made the right choice!

[@Tobyjrn6297]

@@lilteyang i find this niche comparison point extraordinarily unlikely, and certainly isn't what we have heard from basically all other reviewers

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I thought the stock italmill 64mm burrs on the DF64 were actually pretty high clarity and low body, for the DF grinders a lot of times the Declumper is causing re-grinding from holding too much flow of coffee grounds back, so modding that might improve your flavour clarity, at the expense of body. If you don't hate the DF64 and don't just want a 2nd grinder to add, the cheapest upgrade path (besides modding the DF) for you might be getting SSP MP Burrs (if you want high clarity), Gorilla Gear burrs or Option-O Mizen burrs are good options too if you want something more balanced.

[@ciruscoffee4290]

Hi Charlie, what about filter coffee? Thanks !

[@homecafecharlie]

Not tested as I rarely drink filter. Other reviewers probably tested with filter 😉

[@gdp-72]

Interesting review. I pulled out of the 078s at the last minute and have signed up for the Niche duo (espresso burr option). Do you have any thoughts on how the duo compares with 078s?

[@homecafecharlie]

I haven't tried it. If I ever get one I'll do a comparison

[@christopherschmitz1804]

I backed the 78s, as I think it is a great HW platform at a very competitive price. There will be 3rd party burrs for it in case you don‘t like the burrs. Should of course be creating good espresso from the start. Will compare it to my Bentwood, which up to now from my POV is the best compromise between sweetness and clarity.

[@tagheuer02]

As far as I know there isn't another grinder in the world that uses this odd burr size

[@homecafecharlie]

It's a popular grinder. Nearly 100% chance that SSP will make burrs for it

[@tagheuer02]

@CharlieMoritz yeah it's a big maybe. Do you have any idea how expensive 78mm SSP burrs will be? Why would anyone put $350 burr set in a $499 grinder? Much better off to just get the $1k grinder now....

[@iangp1113]

@@tagheuer02 it definitely is a maybe, but people will do it because 1. Still

[@tagheuer02]

@iangp1113 I agree the design and workflow are good. But you are effectively turning a $499 grinder into almost a $1,000, and there is plenty of competition in that price range, or you can simply get a dedicated Niche Zero and another brew grinder like the Fellow Ode by the time you upgrade to these theoretical SSP burrs

[@ballentphoto]

I am unclear if you WDT? Do you grind into the cup, dump into the portafilter tamp and pull a shot? Do you WDT? It appears that you do not. Would you mind clarifying because a lot of people do WDT as part of their normal workflow.

[@tippykaffu4047]

He said he did. However, I doubt he did a good job on fluffing up the grounds. And I have some suspicion he doesnt really believe in WDT.

[@homecafecharlie]

I do. The WDT is on my bench right above my tamping station. I may not have done on the one video from above but I almost always WDT. RDT less so, I don't really like putting a lot of water into the grinder even though I know many people said it doesn't cause any issues. Just seems wrong to me, but I try it anytime I have issues with static

[@ballentphoto]

@@homecafecharlie thank you for clarifying. It just looked like you were getting some wonky shots which typically comes from different densities in the coffee bed, or some sort of channeling.

[@KushalJoshiP]

Charlie, great video I am watching this a third time and this last time after watching Kyle Rowsell's latest video 'GIANT GRINDER SHOWDOWN'. He does emphasis the idea that the 078S burrs need to be seasoned HEAVILY for them to be at peak performance. If you still have the grinder can you confirm or deny you have had better luck with the channeling issue since this review a month ago?

[@homecafecharlie]

I don't think seasoning is the problem, as I said in the video I put around 10kg through the machine. I've been using the DF64V since that review and might do a comparison video.

[@KushalJoshiP]

@@homecafecharlie this would be very helpful. Considering that as an alternative as I’m interested in a variable RPM grinder. If that video comes out soon I can cancel my Kickstarter pledge and get the DF64V instead!

[@dvs3308]

@@homecafecharlie Charlie, that would be great! I'm still doubting between this Timemore and the DF64v of the DF83. A comparison would really help me👍

[@yakofdez4698]

​@@homecafecharlieI would LOVE to see that kind of comparison. What seems weird is the fact that every other reviewer haven't mentioned having channeling issues, but on the other hand you pretty much ruled out the possibility of a decective or bad calibrated unit, so... 🤔

[@coffeenerdaaron]

Really great review man! I backed an 078 😊

[@homecafecharlie]

I'm sure that will be great for filter coffee. The build is great, I hope you enjoy it 😁

[@coffeenerdaaron]

@@homecafecharlie yeah I backed it for filter. I have a bunch of other grinders including an EK that I prefer for espresso. I’m glad to hear the build quality is good and that overall you’re happy with it.

[@BensCoffeeRants]

I guess it's due to their weird burr design, but generally with most grinders you get slower flowing shots with higher RPM so you'd have to adjust coarser for the same shot timing, but you found the opposite? I guess if your testing also shows you were getting more large particles at higher RPM that makes sense, but interesting it's a bit different.

[@homecafecharlie]

Very different!

[@Val_Smith]

Wanted to get a more clean profile grinder for turboshpots without hopper or bellows(use specialita right now). Got myself 078 for pourover and was going to wait to purchase espresso burrs, but I guess there is no point. Thanks for the review. And diid 420th like :)

[@Val_Smith]

The Ozik solution of knocker seems to be the best one yet. Backed off this grinder to wait for Aries.

[@dxsaigon]

Fantastic thumbnail Charlie!

[@richardmiddleton7770]

Update: after aligning the burrs (the rear fixed burr needed 2 layers of thin aluminum foil to shim) and tamping lighter than usual, I'm getting perfect consistent shots and I'm now just below 4 on the dial (burr touch is at around -2 before zero), which puts the burr gap around 0.18mm. Also, I've read people complain about it being difficult to see the rpm control knob and the burr adjustment dial mark, the power lead means you can't push it close to the wall on a counter top, and the power button is hard to get to, well I simply turned it on it's side and this solves all those problems! The burr adjustment dial mark actually lines up with the grip ridges on the side of the dial! One ridge is one small mark on the dial! You're welcome! ✌️

[@classicrockonly]

I backed this and dropped it the last day because it was starting to come out that the shots would lack clarity. Glad I dropped my backing. Went for a DF64V. Still waiting

[@homecafecharlie]

I'll have my review up of that one in the next few weeks. It's definitely a different kind of grinder than the Sculptor. It definitely has its own quirks though 😅

[@classicrockonly]

@@homecafecharlie For sure! I expect these grinders to...but I also won't be paying $1800 for something like a Lagom :D

[@victorbarroscoch]

Judging by the look of those espresso shots, and assuming puck prep isn't the issue, I'd say your grinder probably has alignment problems. That tends to make the grind distribution wider, or even bimodal, producing more fines and boulders that increase channeling. It's definitely not performing up to spec in my opinion.

[@homecafecharlie]

I contacted Timemore about the burr alignment and adjusted to make sure, it seems like it was fine...

[@kunalmj]

Great review! Can you get a more clarity in your cup if you discarded the fines that came out of the knocker instead of knocking into your catchcup/portafilter? You may need to overdose by a gram or so in that case

[@homecafecharlie]

It's surely possible but I think the bigger problem is the large number of coarses. I think that's what's causing the sputtering cos I think it's too big of a variance.

[@homecafecharlie]

For people concerned that I might have received a factory misaligned grinder, I did a post on my IG showing the alignment (and how I tested this) which I did before the review. I didn't think it was such a contentious point which is why I didn't film it when I did the alignment first time. I hope this clears that up: instagram.com/p/Cs0yYnysJdF/?igshid=MmJiY2I4NDBkZg==

[@victorbarroscoch]

Did you test just the rotating burr or the stationary one as well? It's important to check both for parallelism. There's the concentricity of the burrs too, but that's more difficult to measure.

[@keebmods]

I've backed both the Sculptor 064s and the Kopi Deva crowdfunding campaigns. Since you're one of the few on earth who has had the privilege of using both these machines, how would you compare the 078s against the Deva?

[@homecafecharlie]

Man that's hard, I used the Kopi Deva like 2 years ago. I thought it was great, just a little slow to grind. I have no idea how I would rate them side by side now

[@barjee]

I backed 064s for the pure fact that it's cheap and i needed something for the SSP burrs, don't care if they don't recommend swapping im gonna slap my MP's in there anyway XD

[@BensCoffeeRants]

Some people had issues fitting SSP burrs in there, I think it might depend on how old the burrs are, they changed the inner diameter very slightly I think for newer burrs so it might fit more grinders.

[@barjee]

@@BensCoffeeRants I've had them for a while so shouldn't be an issue :)

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@barjee It might, just don't force it, and if you have any issues, you could probably trade with someone else heh.

[@qwmjml]

Thanks for the review! So jealous that you have your hands on the 078s! How was the alignment out of the box? I'm not sure how to feel about your assessment of the 078s and how it is comparable to conicals such that is favours texture rather than clarity. Based on their own claim of high uniformity of their burr set, I backed the 078s with the idea that it will complement my Sette 270, which I consider to produce lots of fines yet favour acidity and complexity, but not so much on texture, sweetness and clarity. Do you have any experience with the Sette? How do you think they compare? And how has the issue with channeling affected (or was accounted for) the assessment of the taste profile of the 078s cups? Perhaps it could be useful for context which grinders and burr sets, as well as recipes that you prefer for your espresso

[@user-sg5ri4st5m]

​@Home Cafe by Charlie , thank you for the review the distribution part of the video was really educational. I am also interested in the burr alignments could you please give a follow-up on that ? Regarding the different reviewer opinions, could it be that the burr dimensions tolerances, alignment are different from machine to machine ? Maybe when the motor spining the burrs change alignment in steeper angles than other grinders (like the burr support is weak) ?

[@chadw6593]

Did you see Kylie Rowsell’s grinder showdown? He said the 078s stopped this behavior after it was season and he had to run a lot of coffee through it.

[@homecafecharlie]

If this is the case then Timemore should season all of their grinders in the factory. I put something like 8-10kg through this grinder for this review, and if you're using speciality beans (I was) that is probably around $300+ of coffee and still not getting a good grind at the highest RPM. That's an unacceptable cost in my opinion.

[@chadw6593]

Yes. I agree. To all the haters of your review who said you were doing it wrong, proof that you weren’t.

[@markpalmos]

Nice review, what I find very frustrating was how quickly you brushed over the chart which was much too fast for me to absorb any useful information from it I was still trying to work out what the information meant when you took it off the screen again and even watching it a second time I still didn't understand... It would be better to use the mouse and show what you are talking about when you're referring to an increase or decrease of this and that... Otherwise great review

[@tippykaffu4047]

Simply waiting for certain guy making burr 8:16 DF grinder and La Pavoni users would disagree.

[@kisam2]

Do you WDT? Shots look like they can be fixed with WDT, not the grinder.

[@homecafecharlie]

I do 😉

[@HomeBaristaCorner]

In my opinion, I think the channelling issue is not a grinder issue, it's a puck prep issue.

[@homecafecharlie]

It's not. I've had the DF83 back on my bench for a few days and haven't had that problem at all. 🤷‍♂️

[@tagheuer02]

According to this review, this is a defective design. Can't believe Timemore and every other reviewer missed this obvious design defect!

[@tagheuer02]

@vivy1086 this isn't my opinion, the review said is a characteristic of the grinder. I don't hate Timemore, do you understand who created the review and who's opinion that is?

[@yakofdez4698]

I'm sure Charlie has pulled hundreds of shots, if it was a puck prep issue he would know, wouldn't he?

[@tagheuer02]

@vivy1086 Jesus christ dude, go touch grass. The burr design is fucked

[@DimKim77]

0:10 "for espresso" - ok, we may not watch further, thanks for saving time :))

[@HumblebeeRules]

What are the better options for similar prices? People always say that without providing any examples and it's super annoying.

[@SirDVV]

You say there are better alternatives for the price but don’t mention them? 😅

[@tagheuer02]

There are a lot of grinders in this range, Malkonig x54, Eureka, Sette, etc

[@BensCoffeeRants]

@@tagheuer02 Those aren't great options if you want flavour clarity, although not sure about the x54

[@tagheuer02]

@@BensCoffeeRants niche duo is flat burr and $670 usd

[@lilteyang]

@@tagheuer02 The Duo at $670+tax, with its one set of burr, is not a multipurpose grinder like the 078s, but if one's only doing espresso than it's definitely a very tempting offer.

[@tagheuer02]

@@lilteyang of course you can switch burrs and it's multipurpose. That's the whole point

[@WalkingCarbon]

The real question is ....black or white colour

[@xenodrake4008]

The hype was for the 078 and the 064s... so i guess not

[@sketchlord]

your review didn't really help because you did not give your alternative recommendations.

[@homecafecharlie]

Lots of other people said that too, check out my other grinder reviews (Kopi Deva, DF64/83) and I have one coming up soon about the DF64V. IMO all produce a brighter and more interesting tasting espresso (no opinion on other brew methods).

[@Blackcrowking7]

time to get a refund then. Thanks

[@tagheuer02]

I don't think you can, haven't we all paid and are stuck?

[@yakofdez4698]

If this is not a defective unit, how could every other reviewer miss those issues? 🤔 So weird...

[@homecafecharlie]

Yep, very weird. We'll see if everyone notices the same thing when the machine starts reaching backers.

[@yakofdez4698]

@@homecafecharlie It will be too late by then. 😂 I haven't backed either of them, but I find it well... strange. On the one hand other reviewers don't mentiom those kind of issues (some even explicitly said thiat didn't happened to them when asked), and on the other if I understood correctly you seem to rule out the possibility of a defective unit. So again... weird. 🤔 Now as you've said only time will tell. Thank you so much for your review and for telling us everything you found during your testing, the good and the bad. You've done a great job, so again, thank you so much. 👋

[@dukhwanee]

the timing of this review helps nobody.

[@homecafecharlie]

I get that it's late. They sent it to me like 10 days before the Kickstarter ended.

[@dukhwanee]

@@homecafecharlie Buyers remorse before even getting it kinda sucks but that's the kickstarter experience I guess. Not blaming you for any of this, but I will not buy into Spo and Lance's hype going forward.

[@joekolb3937]

Why say something like that? It helps no one and probably not intended, but seems rude

[@fuzion1094]

​@dukhwanee did you watch Lance's actual review on the 078s? His review for 078 built up the hype for the 078s, but the actual review that came later wasn't nearly as positive. And that review swayed me to cancel my order