Is there Biblical Truth of a Pre-Existence?

Pastor Mark Cares and Dave Bartosiewicz share Biblical Truth on whether the Bible teaches whether the Mormon belief of the Pre-Existence is true or not true. A great biblical lesson to make one learn the truth. Pastor Mark and I have done a series of videos that will help with answering Mormonism. What is the Priesthood of God? • What is the Priesthood... . What is the Biblical views of Eternal Marriages and Eternal Families: • What is the Biblical T... . What is the Biblical Truth of the Pre-existence: • Is there Biblical Trut... . How is One made Righteous, through Faith or Works?: • How is One made Righte... . Who is the Biblical Jesus?: • Who is the Biblical Je... . Plus Feeling Unworthy, Guilty or Not Good Enought? • "Feeling Unworthy, Gui...

[@nicolemcginlay8687]

Thank you for your replies am now a born again christian very recently after being Mormon over 30 years

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Praise God! Welcome to the Body of Christ. :)

[@valeriegriner5644]

That's wonderful....God bless you and make sure to meditate on the 4 Gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John....the teachings, parables, healing, mercy and wonderful life of Jesus Christ, our Lord and Redeemer.

[@hollayevladimiroff131]

Me two, only 15 years but it was long enough, God Bless You, enjoy the freedom!!

[@ThisSaintsTheory]

Mormon response: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5DFk5ekftako9E

[@carolyn100signswilliams9]

I am a LDS convert. I am gathering facts and comparing both my Christian belief and Mormon learning. Facts and research is where I am now. Just learning more about both. Interesting content. I will finalize eventually on my concepts of beliefs.

[@Kman.]

Prayerfully you've connected with a local church, for _MANY_ of the *LDS* leave the faith & claim atheism due to the twisted concepts they've been taught.

[@yibbil3]

We are now understanding! And spreading the truth,who, why..and what is the purpose of my existence.Its a question we all have asked.We feel it and have asked what this is that I feel and wonder .Who am I,what am I ,Why am I me ?Now we are waking to our true identity .Praise The Almighty The Only Living GOD Yahweh.Give Glory To Yeshuwa For Giving His Blood To Save Human Kind ! Amen...

[@stephentoons]

and yet the jerimiah passage convinces me our spirit is created before conception. pre existence does not imply you saw the father, the passage about adams creation is also irrelevent, as none of us were created that way

[@lorineilson7529]

I'm so happy you made this video. At work today I was wondering if there was a pre-existence. This answered my question.

[@sidname9538]

Lori Neilson, Try asking your Father in Heaven about a pre-mortal life, then read Ecclesiastes 12:7 and then read it again and again and then ask your Heavenly Father is sacred prayer if this scripture is of God. I testify to you that your spirit will depart from your body at some future time just as all spirits do and will continue to do. Ecclesiastes 12:7 is the truth. You did live with God the Father and you did exist before being born into this Earth and you will yet exist. At the time of your resurrection (made possible by your Saviour Jesus) your spirit and the remains of your physical body will be re-united.

[@MelkorTolkien]

@@sidname9538 That can simply mean that our spirit came forth from God (The Word).

[@anonymous3174]

That's cool. That happens to me all the time. I'll ask the lord something and when I get home the answer comes to.me in a video or book or newspaper article or something.

[@ThisSaintsTheory]

Mormon response: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5DFk5ekftako9E

[@mysticmouse7261]

All I need to dismiss pre existence is "The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" Genesis 2:7

[@GoodNewsGospel777]

Excellent message bro's you express God's foreknowledge correctly, and even interpret Isaiah 9:6 correctly, which clearly speaks of the Trinity, and so few see that.

[@sidname9538]

John chapter 20 verse 17

[@waynecrook1290]

Amen bro Bill ,,listened today and sharing this excellent message. God bless you!

[@witforjesus]

I dreamed about my baby girl before she was born, with her facial features just like she is today at 11 years old, but that doesn't prove pre-existence. It only proves we can have vivid dreams that the Lord may give us as a view into the future. These stories do not discount the Biblical truth that Jesus said when He explained that His preexistence in Heaven as God being "from above" is not the same as us who are "from below" (i.e., from the earth) - John 8:23: “Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.” Likewise the Apostle Paul agreed with Jesus when He said: “Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven." -- 1 Cor. 15:46-47 The first man (Adam) and all of us is "from the earth", the second man (Jesus) is the "Lord from Heaven." We must always subject our dreams, feelings, voices we hear in our head according to Biblical Scripture so if they disagree, these are merely dreams into the future, not proof of preexistence.

[@sidname9538]

Ever learning--Ever speaking but not much listening with our hearts. Listen to the Holy Scriptures Titus chapter 1 verse 2 "In hope of eternal life which God who can not lie promised before the world began" Who did God promise this hope of Eternal Life to? Do our spirits return after death-- if something returns was it sent in the first place?

[@davidross5861]

I have a question about the pre exiting thing. is it possible our sprit was given no form for creation until the our creation

[@russellricksbooks2579]

God KNEW the prophet Jeremiah and called him to be a prophet in Israel BEFORE he was born. BEFORE he was conceived. Where were you when all the SONS of God shouted for joy?

[@jannetteharvey236]

This is excellent. Jesus also created us, so he can make that claim in Jeremiah 1:5. God bless you two.

[@robmckay5421]

Our birth is but a sleep and a forgetting; The Soul that rises with us, our life’s Star, Hath had elsewhere its setting And cometh from afar; Not in entire forgetfulness, And not in utter nakedness, But trailing clouds of glory do we come From God, who is our home: Heaven lies about us in our infancy!

[@troyt5564]

I don’t understand why it is so important that we prove that there is no pre-existence. It sounds like a beautiful doctrine. If it is true, it is magnificent and awesome. If it isn’t true, then that’s kind of depressing. I hope the Mormons are right.

[@janaprocella8268]

That is what we call him the omnipotent! Because he knows so much more than we do or could ever learn

[@ThisSaintsTheory]

Mormon response: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5DFk5ekftako9E

[@user-qp8ln2yt8r]

They quote a scripture saying no one has ever seen God but what about Genesis 32:30 and Exodus 33:11?

[@janaprocella8268]

He could be creating new stars in different galaxies that we don't know anything about he's adding onto our own universe God is a man of Greater designs then your mind or any human mind could ever conceive a this is what the most important idea is is to understand that as long as we live we can never be exactly as great as he is

[@vinceluna5872]

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7? Scratching my head I kinda agree to disagree even in Psalms I believe it says thou preparest a body for me prophesying Jesus birth and if we are God's image wouldn't it make sense that once there is conception God sends a spirit to the conceived baby?so that he or she gets that opportunity to choose God or not because of free will?

[@janaprocella8268]

Our life is not just about choosing not to send but to hunger and thirst after knowledge

[@kathypileggi7650]

Jana Jorgensen we are told in scripture to seek first HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS and all theses “ other things “ will be added ...JESUS CHRIST became sin who knew no sin, THAT WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS.

[@janaprocella8268]

The beginning of our universe is what that refers to It's All About Us however we are not told the Eternal story of the beginning of the very very beginning of all things which means outside of our universe that is why we are constantly filled with questions and questions and more questions and forever answer there is another question it is all designed to be this way to keep us on our toes so that we will want to know the truth as long as we live we gravitate to the knowledge of gaining truth that is a scientific truth and every other kind of Truth we are truth magnet and we are starving and hungering for it we will always feel this way until we meet the father then have him face-to-face! You couldn't learn it all in six lifetimes

[@user-qp8ln2yt8r]

They are saying before Genesis 2:7 Adam and Eve didn’t exist at all. Then who is being created in Genesis 1:27?

[@nicolemcginlay8687]

There is a pre existence as I saw my little boy BEFORE he was born I saw he's spirit face to face feelt it him on my flesh I will never forget it can't deny if

[@4GUESTS]

+Nicole McGinlay Oh my, there's so many stories like that. My wife had our newest son a couple months premature. On the day he would be born, a male's voice woke her up, calling her name twice. Later that evening she's having frequent labor pains, then we're at the hospital and he's delivered.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

+Mark Allen Channel Watch the video...

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

+Nicole McGinlay Watch the video..

[@mormonconvert5726]

+Nicole mcGinlay. Tons of people have had that happen before. Read "My Souls Rememberance"...it's great. Pre-mortality and its implications are wonderful to consider. Your son chose you before the earth began and your family relationships will continue on.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Mormon Convert Prove it!

[@Applest2oApples]

On which day were the angels created, lucifer rebeled, and his followers were cast to the incomplete earth?

[@connorx447]

Not to the Earth per se, he was just cast out. There are billions upon billions of planets and stars out there, I'm sure Lucifer just went to one of it.

[@MelkorTolkien]

That is not specifically in the bible. It's from Paradise Lost.. It's only hinted out but not actually explained.

[@carolyn100signswilliams9]

Good point. Bits and points???

[@janaprocella8268]

We don't really have the whole story

[@acts10truth]

I know most of it. thank God for the revelation. [e-mail]

[@Ampwich]

But why do I have vague recollections of what Heaven is like.....I have these weird images in my head of a place I never been before and it's so beautiful.....

[@ashishstanley]

We call those 'dreams' and 'imaginations'. Our brain goes through many things like deja vu and other delusions. Doesn't make it real.

[@acts10truth]

wish I had the memory of heaven. Lucky you. [e-mail] these guys do not know for what they speak

[@janaprocella8268]

The Bible only gives you nips and pieces of what the greatest truth really is it's a necessary book to necessary guide but it is very limited.

[@janaprocella8268]

Just keep learning spirit and a peaceful heart and stay open to gaining more knowledge because what we possess as human beings would only fill a thimble compared to God compared to all the knowledge and truth that there is in existence stay open fill a cup next fill a bottle after that fill the bucket filling dump truck next fill your soul your entirety with all truth no matter where it comes from truth is truth no matter where found

[@pauldunn7000]

Speaking of being connected to our fathers befor hand under the old covenant of circumcision a child a seed had to literally pass through the literal covenant in the flesh of a father through a man's forskin to enter in and to be formed in the womb. That child is under the fathers covenant till the age of 14. Think of what the man's seed has to pass through to enter the woman and it passed through that covenant in that fathers flesh.. we must look at things like a child to understand God's word to us...

[@Ampwich]

If we did pre exist that doesn't mean we were gods or on his level or immortal...just means we were created as spirits first. Also, if not, that would mean life sucks on Earth and potentially after with no choice in the matter

[@thiagogregory1]

yes

[@madelynhernandez7453]

We are trapped.

[@juancarlosverdugosanchez4296]

Hi everybody, i am an exmormon, i dont believe that doctrine anymore, but i checked the book Of Job chapter one verse six that says: 6 "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them" (sons, Not angels) So, it says in the verse that it was the sons of God that came to him and Satan was among them. I am confused because why would Satan be with God and at the same time in the earth?. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.. So my question is if the angels were sons of God too? and why would Satan be allowed to come to the LORD if he was sent to the earth with more evil spirits. somebody explain this to me please. I dont want to go back to the mormon church :(

[@wpiofm]

There's a lot in Job that rubs orthodox fur the wrong way. Oddly so, Joseph Smith, in his deep relationship with fallen angels, could have had revealed SOME light on the unseen (to us) hosts of beings. Ok to be open and curious. But LDS is a poisionous cult, so never think of returning to it.

[@juancarlosverdugosanchez4296]

@@wpiofm No, I will never go back, I prefer to ask questions and keep following the true God. The one the Bible teaches.

[@juancarlosverdugosanchez4296]

and Thank you for responding. And for all the videos you make trying to make people stay away from a cult.

[@sidname9538]

Why do we refer to Him as heavenly Father? If God the Father is not the Father of our spirits (from a place called heaven) Ecclesiastes 12:7 is this Biblical scripture ("and the spirit returns to God who gave it.") How can a spirit return if it was not first sent? Where was it (the persons spirit) sent from?

[@robertsonnet4215]

Dave, if there was no pre-existance of mankind, God would be an unjust God, for we would have no choice in being on this earth to face our trials and challenges. God is just and so we had a choice in coming here.

[@samuelhirsch6936]

Robert Sonnet That's right

[@melanieweider5839]

i would rather be here choice or not that not exist. that doesnt make it unjust. and who's to say that, assuming there is a pre existence that we have a choice anyway?

[@richardholmes7199]

Jude 1:6 KJV appears to lend to the pre-existence. We all had to have been there.

[@elayneblystone7889]

If I had a choice, I would have chosen heaven, not earth!

[@madelynhernandez7453]

It doesn't make sense because we don't remember and that kills the just part. Also I feel wholeheartedly sure that I did not choose to be born.

[@nicolemcginlay8687]

I saw my son one year before he was born

[@madelynhernandez7453]

This doesn't mean he had pre existence. It could just be that God showed you what would come. He let you see who your son would be or look like.

[@jameswood3257]

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Gregory Nazianzus said No sooner do I conceive of the One than I am illumined by the splendor of the Three; no sooner do I distinguish Three than I am carried back into the One. When I think of any of the Three, I think of him as the whole, and my eyes are filled, and the greater part of what I am thinking escapes me'" (p. 117). Little wonder that, as Armstrong concludes, "For many Western Christians . . . the Trinity is simply baffling" (ibid.) In their view, as Karen Armstrong explains, "the Trinity only made sense as a mystical or spiritual experience . . . It was not a logical or intellectual formulation but an imaginative paradigm that confounded reason The most obvious stumbling block for the Trinitarian interpretation is that the verse, as any ordinary person can see, does not actually say that the “word” is Jesus Christ. This good point is emphatically noted by Trinitarian systematic theologian at Fuller Theological Seminary Dr. Colin Brown. Commenting on John 1:1, he writes: “It is a common but patent misreading of the opening of John’s Gospel to read it as if it said: “In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God” (John 1:1).” [1]

[@user-qp8ln2yt8r]

They say that God doesn’t want to give his glory to anybody. Again they are teaching their own false doctrine. The Bible says Ephesians 4:13, John 17:21-23, Revelation 3:21.

[@BCWaxwing]

In the Jewish priesthood system, anyone who sinned needed to seek forgiveness for the offence. There is no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood (Heb. 9:22). Everyone was required to become attached to a sacrificial lamb BEFORE offering it up as a sacrifice. The spiritual ancestry does not need to include any form of physical ancestry (Rom. 2:29; John 3:6). The spiritual ancestry must be manifested before the time of tribulation ends since nobody can be born without parents. Therefore, everyone needs to be born in the spirit world prior to being born here in order to function as a qualified sacrificial lamb yet without blemish. Perhaps we could be assigned to parents in heaven but never meet them, but it seems to be contrary to what the Bible teaches. I have only attended an LDS church once and am new to their teaching of the preexistence, but I do see biblical support for the belief.

[@paulkachari85]

Hallelujah ✝️🇮🇳✝️

[@sidname9538]

These say Jesus is God and yes Jesus is a God but just believe Jesus as in John chapter 20 verse 17 Jesus speaking to Mary, said my God and your God, my Father and your Father. Dave and the other guy can put their spin on anything but just trust in God through the testimony of the Holy Ghost

[@ashishstanley]

Believe in Jesus in John chapter 1. Jesus is God, father is God, holy spirit is God. The holy spirit and Bible go hand in hand. Jesus isn't 'a' God. He IS god

[@joeydelrio]

there are at least 20 books mentioned in the bible that have been "lost" but more likely removed. removing books makes it much easier to teach against such doctrines as pre existence, this way the masses stay ignorant and never know their true self.

[@melanieweider5839]

it sounds to me like its satans own desires to be like god and to BE god that is manifesting in people! kinda like he's transferred those desires onto human beings making them believe and desire the same! i can imagine him whispering those desires in smith's ear! maybe thats where this idea sprang from? i dont know. just really speculating.

[@melanieweider5839]

huh?!

[@melanieweider5839]

it doesnt mean "gods" in the way you are thinking. its talking about judges. GOTQUESTIONS.ORG Question: "What does the Bible mean by 'you are gods' / 'ye are gods' in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34?" Answer: Let’s start with a look at Psalm 82, the psalm that Jesus quotes in John 10:34. The Hebrew word translated “gods” in Psalm 82:6 is Elohim. It usually refers to the one true God, but it does have other uses. Psalm 82:1 says, “God presides in the great assembly; he gives judgment among the gods.” It is clear from the next three verses that the word “gods” refers to magistrates, judges, and other people who hold positions of authority and rule. Calling a human magistrate a “god” indicates three things: 1) he has authority over other human beings, 2) the power he wields as a civil authority is to be feared, and 3) he derives his power and authority from God Himself, who is pictured as judging the whole earth in verse 8. This use of the word “gods” to refer to humans is rare, but it is found elsewhere in the Old Testament. For example, when God sent Moses to Pharaoh, He said, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh” (Exodus 7:1). This simply means that Moses, as the messenger of God, was speaking God’s words and would therefore be God’s representative to the king. The Hebrew word Elohim is translated “judges” in Exodus 21:6 and 22:8, 9, and 28. The whole point of Psalm 82 is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge. Verses 6 and 7 warn human magistrates that they, too, must be judged: “I said, `You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High.' But you will die like mere men; you will fall like every other ruler.” This passage is saying that God has appointed men to positions of authority in which they are considered as gods among the people. They are to remember that, even though they are representing God in this world, they are mortal and must eventually give an account to God for how they used that authority. Now, let’s look at how Jesus uses this passage. Jesus had just claimed to be the Son of God (John 10:25-30). The unbelieving Jews respond by charging Jesus with blasphemy, since He claimed to be God (verse 33). Jesus then quotes Psalm 82:6, reminding the Jews that the Law refers to mere men-albeit men of authority and prestige-as “gods.” Jesus’ point is this: you charge me with blasphemy based on my use of the title “Son of God”; yet your own Scriptures apply the same term to magistrates in general. If those who hold a divinely appointed office can be considered “gods,” how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent (verses 34-36)? In contrast, we have the serpent’s lie to Eve in the Garden. His statement, “your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil” (Genesis 3:5), was a half-truth. Their eyes were opened (verse 7), but they did not become like God. In fact, they lost authority, rather than gaining it. Satan deceived Eve about her ability to become like the one true God, and so led her into a lie. Jesus defended His claim to be the Son of God on biblical and semantic grounds-there is a sense in which influential men can be thought of as gods; therefore, the Messiah can rightly apply the term to Himself. Human beings are not “gods” or “little gods.” We are not God. God is God, and we who know Christ are His children.

[@melanieweider5839]

that hasn't proved such a thing at all. people are not gods neither will be in the way that god is god. the bible doesn't say that anywhere. human beings are not going to become gods of their own planet and have human being worship them as gods! there is no such thing as eternal progression. it is not possible to progress eternally! what would one possibly progress to if it continued forever?! progress has a limit. god has always been god. god is unchanging from all eternity to all eternity. moroni 8:18 god is the same yesterday, today and forever, in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing. mormon 9:9 therefor he cannot have been a mortal being at anytime in the past nor can he be progressing TO anything. and we can never become as he is now. your own book contradicts you!

[@tharrenjoeross657]

Me too

[@mdproulx3028]

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4 God created us in His image body, soul and spirit. Three-dimensional beings, three world ages are mentioned in scripture.

[@christalronbrewer9290]

D F D . Much of this is damming false doctorin. A child can grow and become an adult. We can grow and become more like our heavenly parents. Christ was the word we all lived in the premortal life as a family before we got our bodies. Why call Him Father in heaven unless He is our Father in heaven. The essence of life is to grow and become and to overcome. A child is not an adult actually very for from it and very dependent on parents. We are very dependent on our heavenly parents. Why come to earth get a body if we can not keep it. Why come to earth if we can not grow up and become more like our heavenly parents. You could not develop faith if you new everything and if you new everything you would be a God. We are for from being parents like our heavenly Father. But God is not God if we can not grow up and become more like He is. I am only one and the Father of my children that does not mean that there cannot be more Father's . Repent repent repent repent repent repent repent repent repent. Truly the essence of life is to grow and become and to overcome and to become more like lord Jesus our older brother who said i will go and thy will oh God be done .repent repent repent repent Dave .

[@christalronbrewer9290]

Dave repent repent repent repent. You are smarter than that. A child can grow and become an adult we can grow and become more like our heavenly parents. The living word of God is the mouth of a true living prophet. In the time of Noah he was the only way to go.. Dave repent repent . We can grow and become more like our heavenly parents. Just as a child can grow and become an adult. It is pure love that our heavenly parents wants us to become more like they are. Repent repent repent repent repent repent repent repent and repent.

[@kareemhetaraka-brown1259]

Hahaha the old make it up on the spot trick lol

[@madelynhernandez7453]

What is being made up?

[@janaprocella8268]

To us he is the Alpha and the Omega like we are two are babies when they were born and we raised our children we are there Alpha and omega's we are like Gods to our children this is the same complex ideology relationship in which we have with God the Father our heavenly father videos the heavenly father and the Creator and he is the Alpha and the Omega to us his children

[@grandpaje4734]

I don't believe you any of you anyways.. I know that I am a child of God, it does not make me an arrogant man, instead it close the gap in my realation with God. I have my heavenly father beside my earthly father. Just like what you are quoting in Hebrew 12:9 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? Dave, are you sure that God will not share his glory? What about in the whole chapter in John 17 let me point you paticular scriptures in : 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. ( notice: "before the world was.." ) 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: ( ..sharing the glory.) Dave, what do you mean when you said God won't share his glory? In reality Jesus said other wise here? Oh because it doesn't make sense to you. You are also quoting John 1:18 18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. ( ..he hath declared him..) Here is Jesus declaration: Matthew 5 8. Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God. 1 John 3 King James Version (KJV) 3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Don't use your own sense Dave, open your heart to the Spirit of God, so you know the truth.

[@joycemcfarlane1927]

This is pablem for the spiritually lame. Sorry Bro. there is a preexistance.

[@ezrapound6063]

Is Philippians 2:5-10 about an incarnation, a birth or pre-existent Christ? The context is about humility. It’s about divestiture. The Philippians are instructed to follow in the footsteps of Christ by divesting themselves as their Messiah did. Though he was the anointed King, he made himself unimportant for the benefit of others. The “form” (morphe) of God as well as of a slave means WORKS. This “form” is something outwardly visible. Physically seen. Works are outwardly visible. In 2 Timothy 3:5 were told that people in the last days would have a “form” of Godly devotion but would prove false to its power. Meaning, they would outwardly appear to be Godly but they’re actually hypocrites, another Greek word meaning, an “actor.” The word morphe is used four times in the book of Daniel alone. In the LXX (the Greek Old Testament), Daniel chapter 4 mentions King Nebuchadnezzar going mad for seven years, and after the seven years, verse 33 mentions his Kingship, FORM (morphe) and honor we’re restored to him. In the LXX at Daniel 5:6, after the King sees the fingers of a hand write on the wall, which badly frightened him, we read, “Then his FORM (morphe) changed and his thoughts terrified him, and his hip joints gave way and his knees knocked together.” In the LXX at Daniel 5:10, after the King sees the writing on the wall, the King’s mother tries to comfort him by saying, “O king, live forever! Let not your thoughts alarm you or your FORM (morphe) change. In the LXX at Daniel 7:28, after he receives the vision of the four beasts which troubled him, says, “This is the end of the account. As for me, Daniel-my thoughts terrified me greatly and my FORM (morphe) changed over me, but I kept the matter in my heart.” John 14:10 says the Father was in Jesus performing the WORKS that were clearly seen by everyone. For example, making the deaf hear. Making the blind see. Bringing the dead back to life. These are the works the Father was performing through Jesus. And though he had this power he never flaunted it. Instead he took on the visible WORKS of a slave. What is a slave’s form? A few good examples would be Jesus washing his disciples’ feet. Letting not his will take place but his Father’s. He “emptied himself” preferring to serve others than to be served. Meaning, he made himself unimportant. He wasn’t focused on his own interests but that of others. All the way to the point of giving up his own life for the sake of everyone else. Because he didn’t see equality with God something to be “taken by force.” In other words, he knew it’s only something that can be given. He didn’t even see this as something to be “regarded.” That is, something to even consider or think about.

[@user-qp8ln2yt8r]

They are saying God never wants the gap between his creation and himself to disappear. That is a very unbiblical teaching. Read what the Bible actually says; Ephesians 4:13, John 17:21-23, Revelation 3:21, Luke 12:32.

[@ThisSaintsTheory]

Mormon response: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l5DFk5ekftako9E

[@Kman.]

The problem with the teaching, is it flies in the face of biblical truth. Now, for the MORMON, that really isn't an issue because after all, your literature TRUMPS that which is found in the bible, but I would be remiss if I elected to pass on bringing truth to the even the notion of such... · 1 *John 1:18* "No man hath seen God at any time...". =====> This really should put to rest the "great council" where God met with e/one. · 2 *John 8:23* "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above..." =====> It's quite clear is it not(?), that WE began life HERE, but only GOD from above. · 3 *I Cor **15:45**,46* "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul ...that which is natural; and AFTERWARD that which is spiritual.". 1st comes the physical/natural, THEN spiritual bodies in glory. *Gen 2:7* also establishes the truth in all of this where it says, "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man BECAME a living soul.” =====> Note the order...don't try to REVERSE the order. · 4 *Job 38:4* " Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding." =====> He wasn't AWOL or around, he never existed. Come to Christ, for in Him, you shall be set free.

[@acts10truth]

I am not Mormon, but I believe in a pre-existence but not like you or the Mormons do. I was taught by the spirit of God this...we humans were called stars and we were the common (warrior) angels. We were a third of the stars that were under Lucifer. We fought Michael and his 'angels' called stars in heaven (rev.12). We were created beings. God had mercy after Lucifer had snatched us stars and flung us to the earth when he was made to leave with his high hierarchy of officer angels. In psalms, 104:4 God changes the angels(stars) into spirits. Humans are 3 part beings in God's image of a trinity. We are spirit beings with a soul, living in a body. God placed spirits into these prison bodies on this prison earth. the only way to be redeemed is to believe in Jesus and receive the holy ghost and then live a clean and dedicated life to Jesus for the kingdom. we were not children of God. In Genesis, we are told the sons of God saw the daughters of men. They were only called sons (by man)because they came out of heaven to earth. In 1st Corinthians 13: 12 says this ( excerpt read it all) "but then shall I know even as also I am known". How am I known?? The moment that we receive the baptism of the holy ghost we begin to change into the new creature, a hybrid of Spirit(angel)/ and human(animal). Satan tried to create this being without God( read the book of Enoch) with the hierarchy of officer angels manipulating with the union of angel and human but as always Lucifer cannot create as God can. So the giants were the product of that union. They also by DNA created being like goat/man and other creatures. But God placed his spirit beings in the flesh bodies that might get to return home after the transformation of ressurection. Then we will be born unto God the Father and as the bible says Jesus is the first of "many" brothers. One other thing I saw the demon leave me when I received the Holy Ghost and it is pure dark energy. The demons are souls lost and in direct service to Satan. those angels that you say are demons are not so. angels have a body, demons don't. he knew us before we were born on earth because we were with him. not because he knows everything [e-mail]

[@thewordrappergma7713]

Hello, why was Satan able to snatch us. We were fighting against The Most High along with Satan? Why did The Most High give us a second chance through physical birth etc. and not Satan? Shalom

[@user-qp8ln2yt8r]

Rather than spout your preconceived ideas about whether a pre-existence is biblical or not why don’t you actually read the Bible. Man is created in Genesis 1:27 and then in Genesis 2:1 we are told that all the host of earth have been created and then in Genesis 2:5 we are told that there was not a man to till the ground and in Genesis 2:7 man is formed out of the dust of the ground - i.e. man’s physical creation as opposed to Genesis 1:27 which is man’s spiritual creation. Obvious to those that have eyes to see.

[@janaprocella8268]

We we know that we have science and we know that God designed science, yet there is no scientific things in the Bible would you close the door on science itself because it's not in the Bible? Of course not that's idiocy.!

[@janaprocella8268]

Lucifer did not become Satan until he was cast out of heaven because of his rebellious attitudes! Angels are more advanced than we are but they're merely in the armor of God service of course they're lesser than he has but there more than we are because they know all the secrets have the greatest scientist to ever existed and that is God the Father!

[@alexisricky2]

Can you prove that in the scripture. By the way Lucifer is not in original text. And he was not created perfect.

[@janaprocella8268]

You know the light that we look at it and call it stars burned out long ago millions of years ago

[@christiaanwildtham710]

The word( logos) was put in Jesus. Jesus came to reveal his Father Trinity is a gnostic concept, accepted in the council of Constantinople in 381 AD . Jesus is not God. Jesus is the Son of God, the messiah, the mediator, our high priest. Isajah was mist likely talking about king hezekiah and is a corruption. Any way Jests is the Son of God. ONKY YHWH, The Father is the only true God ( john 17:3) Bless you

[@LatterDayBean]

We are literal spirit offspring of God the Father. Acts 17:29 There was a pre-existence and we grew as child-deity. God once was as man now is and man may become as God now is. God the Father glorifies himself in the salvation and exaltation of all His creations. This ESPECIALLY includes his children, us. Christ (God the Son) redeems us from our fallen state.

[@thiagogregory1]

What do you mean?

[@Kman.]

@@thiagogregory1 It means he's been duped by *LDS* teaching.

[@josephsonners2743]

Where are your garments gentlemen?!

[@valeriegriner5644]

God is the "Alpha and the Omega," and he knows everything beforehand. In fact, I tend to believe in "pre-destination"....from the Bible.

[@janaprocella8268]

Jesus was the same as God only because of his purpose he represented the Heavenly father's purpose it's called purpose purpose they are not the same person Jesus did not become God when you came to this earth he represented God

[@thorrite9734]

Dave Bartosiewicz why do you deride the mormons for believing what the bible says about the pre-existence. I KNOW what the bible says, and it does say this,why deny it? WHAT denomination christian are you dave, to state this?

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Teach me, share the scriptures, let the world know why you believe this? One needs to know the context and the truth so go ahead make your case...

[@mormonconvert5726]

How about these thoughts on pre-mortality for Scripture, history and thought: , en.fairmormon.org/index.php?title=Plan_of_salvation/Pre-mortal_existence&redirect=no

[@thorrite9734]

Dave Bartosiewicz Do you not know the spirit in a person is eternal? Jehovah or Jesus was in the beginning with God and God said to Jeremiah he knew Jeremiah before he was born in mortality and Paul states that God spared not those angels that sinned. Them that are now referred to as demon and devils and does not satan desire the bodies of men because he does not have one himself? Job speaks of morning stars that sang, together, who are these morning stars dave? Doesnt the bible say and teach God is the FATHER of all spirits in hebrews? Jesus spoke in John about the 12 who were chosen out of this world and he lost none but Judas I don't know what brand of christian sect you call yourself but if you intend to preach to others, at the very least know what your talking about before dismissing as it is not in the bible?

[@thorrite9734]

Dave Bartosiewicz Funnily enough dave, i do believe the bible, you?

[@rbwinn3]

There is no such thing as pre-existence. The correct term is pre-mortal life.

[@Kman.]

By way of *LDS* teaching, yes, but NOTHING in the bible substantiates that. Sadly, when *LDS* take issue with the bible, they resort to any of their *3* pieces of literature to trump the bible..

[@janaprocella8268]

There's no such thing as no beginning yes God had a beginning very similar to Jesus Christ beginning it is an idea called Eternal progression

[@rodolfofierro1396]

This person is already in error about angels and demons,he has not studied the scriptures correctly..

[@janaprocella8268]

Jesus is not our father he is our brother period, chosen to be the savior of this journey because of his plan that everyone would have free agency and Satan wanted to deprive everyone a free agency the right to choose for one's own self. There's only one father and that is God the Creator father and he is the father of Jesus Christ and the father of us he is our heavenly father!

[@knowlittle65]

Two ignorant persons trying to falsify persistence of everything ; spirit, and elements. Scientifically everything is eternal. What God did and does is that He organises our body and breathes into our body eternal spirit. Mormon doctrine is in harmony with all past dispensations. You have received apostatised Christianity grew from corrupt Catholic . Be ye perfect , even as your Father in heaven is perfect. There are numerous scriptures supporting eternal existence of God and man.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

There are numerous scriptures supporting eternal existence of man? Please show some in the Bible. God did not organize matter that was created before God, show us? That is a heresy. That belief is completely false. Nothing was before God. God was always.

[@Kman.]

*Gen 1:1* "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth" =====> Time, space & matter are a continuum, & they all BEGAN with the eternal God. MAN didn't come into being until the *6th day.* You provided your own refutation in stating that God breathed into our BODY (which would have been existent!), & we _BECAME_ a LIVING soul.

[@user-qp8ln2yt8r]

What a load of convoluted nonsense these guys preach.

[@jaylordkurviesapiay580]

Nonsense video

[@witforjesus]

I dreamed about my baby girl before she was born, with her facial features just like she is today at 11 years old, but that doesn't prove pre-existence. It only proves we can have vivid dreams that the Lord may give us as a view into the future. These stories do not discount the Biblical truth that Jesus said when He explained that His preexistence in Heaven as God being "from above" is not the same as us who are "from below" (i.e., from the earth) - John 8:23: “Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.” Likewise the Apostle Paul agreed with Jesus when He said: “Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven." -- 1 Cor. 15:46-47 The first man (Adam) and all of us is "from the earth", the second man (Jesus) is the "Lord from Heaven." We must always subject our dreams, feelings, voices we hear in our head according to Biblical Scripture so if they disagree, these are merely dreams into the future, not proof of preexistence.