Is This the Devil's Oldest Trick?

"Did God really say...?"
This might be one of the most misquoted Bible passages of our time.
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Image credits: Julia Caesar and Marius Masalar

[@ddrse]

The devil's oldest trick is getting people to condemn one another in Gods name

[@HenryJuhala]

Thanks Justin. I have heard that argument of "Did God Really Say That?" before. I never really probed the question for an answer even though the argument given did not sit right with my own understanding of the Scripture. Thanks for helping to clarify the question and answer. But, more importantly, thanks for putting it into the context that can help provide freedom to those GLBT folks in the church who need it. Be well. Be blessed.

[@libertyarnold5143]

I’ve just finished your book... so powerful. Wish I could have read it sooner. You are helping more people than you could ever know

[@nataliebartels2202]

Ah man, this is so good. Glad to have found your work, Justin! Your interview in Jan 2019 with Matthew Vines brought me here :))

[@ConqueringServant]

Thank you for sharing this Justin. To paraphrase Dr. William Barber, "... those who say so very much about what God says so little, and so very little about what God says so much." Jesus said a lot about love and life.

[@isabelleleblanc-cheminant1078]

I love your videos! So thoughtful and well-done.

[@curtismurray9793]

Great stuff Justin all the best to you, you are a trailblazer!!

[@paxnorth7304]

Super crafty question. Just when you think you've seen the peak of the Bible's brilliance, TA DA. And in it we see the first foreshadow of why we need Christ. Thank you.

[@KennyVert]

But the argument will be that, with sexuality, it’s different than plucking fruit from a tree (don’t read too far into that ;). That with sexuality (how I was raised), that you could only enjoy sex by eating from the tree of heterosexual marriage and nothing else. Here’s the thing, Justin, coming from a current side B Christian (who would love to receive the revelation that gay marriage could be Biblical and blessed by God so I could be side A and share my life with a lovely Christian guy) the fact that there is no same-sex sexuality represented in the Bible means that we as Gay Christians don’t have a gay version of Song of Solomon to cite to our fellow Christians to say “See! God blessed it there!” So yeah... I guess we are left to, “nuance.” Looking forward to reading your latest book. God bless you, Justin. -Kenneth

[@jackicurtis3611]

Kenny Vert, it's true that as a gay believer, you don't have a Biblical model to follow, but does that really mean that every affirming path is condemned? Are we to conclude that "Everything that is not specifically allowed in Scripture must be forbidden?" By that argument, driving cars, wearing jeans, and using cell phones would be sins. But maybe we should use the rule, "Everything not specifically forbidden in Scripture must be allowed," instead. By that argument, a loving, life-committing gay relationship can be blessed by God, because His word never addresses that situation. When working outside Biblical models, you should do the best you can with what God has given you. Is being alone best? For some, yes. Some are "called" to celibacy. But I wager that unless you hear that call, you belong in the larger group about whom God said, "It is not good for man to be alone." Is being in a loveless, straight marriage best? For some, maybe, if they do not deceive their spouces and the benefits of such a marriage (such as natural offspring, and the protection of women by physically stronger men) outweigh the drawbacks. This, I believe, was the case in Biblical times, when having children was a necessary component of the family economy and passion and romance were secondary concerns to mere survival. But in modern times, there is very little benefit to gay persons entering straight marriages. Science allows a variety of methods for creating children. The economy no longer requires you to raise a large family, and the world population is such that adoption might be a more ethical choice for some. Society is accepting of gay relationships, so you no longer risk ejection from the tribe by being different. And modern life is such that we can now seek passion and romance in marriage without endangering our survival. Ask yourself, "What is the best I can do with the raw material God gave me?" You cannot make your raw material straight. You can be alone, but for most people, that is, according to God, "not good." You can marry a woman, but that would be stealing the passion and romance from her that she could find elsewhere, and most women would not enter such a marriage anyway unless you pretended to be straight, which is deception and a sin. It is quite possible that finding another lonely gay man, to whom you are attracted and who feels the same about you, and joining your lives together, promising to love, honor and support him, comforting him in hard times, sharing his joy in good times, and providing life-long companionship in sickness and in health until death parts you... is absolutely the BEST you can do, and as such, would be unreservedly blessed by God.

[@jamesmontaney7885]

Kenny, perhaps the scripture is subtle regarding same sex relationships but certainly there are hints of it all thru the bible and God appears at various times to honor them. Certainly sex isn't mentioned as the reason for same sex relationships but Naomi and Ruth comes to mind as two people that actually entered into a covenant relationship accepted and permitted by God and community. You mention not having a gay Song of Solomon to cite but if you read and pay attention to the David and Jonathon verses you have to notice a striking similarity. (I have friends that consider it the greatest love story in the bible) I also wonder about the Roman centurion that brought the dying young boy to Jesus. Historically, we know that Roman soldiers typically held contempt and disrespect for slaves and we also know Roman soldiers sometimes kept young males as lovers. This story stands out because the soldier confesses a relational affection for this young man. (The story implies a close and meaningful relationship existed between them.) We don't know the nature of their relationship but we do know that Jesus honors the soldiers request and heals the boy without bothering to make any comment or clarification about their lifestyle.

[@bediako21]

This is so good Justin. Need this in 2021

[@nataliebartels2202]

Gya! this is so good! Thanks for all your work, Justin!!

[@peggyt5409]

First of all, I love your serpent voice! Second of all, this is a very striking perspective and I really enjoy this video!

[@chickadeea16]

Excellent video! Thanks Justin!

[@davidmachemer1015]

Praise God! That is a penetrating insight I never noticed before!

[@jejunemoon]

Very clever. Thanks, Justin !!

[@donj2222]

Great insight! Thanks a lot!

[@rueben8329]

thank you

[@evarms]

Acts 17:11: "Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." Churches often encourage us parishioners to be like the Bereans, and examine the Bible and question whether what is said is true. Until we do...

[@KennyVert]

Jesus also didn’t say, “A man shall leave his father and mother to cling to his wife... or husband”, then again, I don’t know what the original word was used for “wife”. Could it be interpreted as “spouse” or “life-partner”... if so, there’s a point for nuance I guess.

[@dakotaparler]

Kenny Vert Nope, it's Υυvαικα. It literally means "woman."

[@dakotaparler]

Kenny Vert Nope, it's Υυvαικα. It literally means "woman."