Is VINCE CARTER Hall Of Fame? Or Just REALLY GOOD? Stunted Growth!

Is Vince Carter a Hall of famer. It’s the question at the forefront of the list when pondering the career in total of no question the greatest overall dunker of the basketball in NBA history in my opinion. He’s played 22 years in the league, the most seasons played by any player and suited up for an unparalleled 4 different decades, that being the 90s, 2000s, 2010, and the 2020s. He was the NBA rookie of the year in 1999, made 8 straight NBA all star games from 99-00 to 06-07 and was averaging over 25ppg by just his second season at 23 years old. In the 2000 Sydney Olympics he led the team in scoring at 14.8ppg, the next on the list was Kevin Garnet, 4 points below. Arguably because of Vince Carter, basketball in Canada became more popular than hockey for the first time and NBA players from Canada has significantly increased since VC was staring for their home franchise. He’s accomplished a lot in the sport of basketball and the list goes on. So why then is this even a question. The answer I think can be found in a word that’s more defining in a player’s career than you think. Expectation. Vince Carter came into the NBA as the 5th pick in the 98 NBA draft at the perfect time to become one of the NBA’s transitional superstars to build around at the end of the Michael Jordan era, with MJ retiring the same year. Guys like Kobe, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Tim Duncan, Shaq, Ray Allen and Vince Cater, gave the NBA a nice ledge to fall on after Jordan’s dominance. Of that list many felt like Vince Carter was the obvious favorite, as he possessed unique athletic ability, mixed with grace and a finishing touch unrivaled at the time. Was he really a HOFer, or just a really good player with some exciting peaks? Stunted Growth! Is VINCE CARTER Hall Of Fame? Or Just REALLY GOOD? Stunted Growth!
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[@stuntedgrowth]

Will Vince Carter be a FIRST BALLOT Hall Of Famer?

[@willienicholson289]

Do the story of kwame Brown 🤔

[@pineapplegritz7281]

Without question. The man made a whole country like a sport

[@sonoisrael4660]

No 😂

[@staciemohler4624]

@@sonoisrael4660 explain why “No 😂”

[@bobbysmoove4796]

I wouldn’t be surprised if he is first ballot but he shouldn’t be tbh

[@gusto2954]

If T Mac is in the Hall of Fame, theres no question Vince should be there.

[@buzzerbeater3350]

Facts.

[@sonoisrael4660]

@@buzzerbeater3350 false

[@Rieky22]

@@sonoisrael4660 ??

[@coolassvelly8164]

FACTS!!!!

[@coolassvelly8164]

@@sonoisrael4660 you sound dumb tmac never took a team out the first round but false? You crazy

[@jamesjackson2434]

By basketball standards, he's 100% a hall of famer. MLB & NFL are a lot harder to crack in terms of the standards they use which would be more of a conversation, but he'll definitely be in the basketball HOF.

[@aaronconners5570]

Facts

[@vaughanjohnson6865]

ABSOLUTELY PHENOMENAL ATHLETE. Glad he didn't ring chase. Definitely hof.

[@andrebryant5081]

He should've instead of check chasing he wasn't a NBA rotation player for years getting on teams not good enough just taking a spot from a young player who could have made a few M's in the NBA then play overseas.

[@vaughanjohnson6865]

@@andrebryant5081 I hear you

[@staciemohler4624]

I mean you could say he tried to magic made the finals next year VC goes to them mavs win a ring next year VC goes there

[@andrebryant5081]

@@staciemohler4624 He should've just joined GSW. All he had to say was they drafted me back in 98 and I wasn't able to play for them now I can. He could have easily played games when the Warriors gave up depth to sign KD to be a backup stretch 4.

[@thejump9949]

@@andrebryant5081 This is not true at all, where are you getting the information that he wasn't an NBA rotation player for years??

[@freedommgtow4996]

He was more then a great Dunker, because he had a killer outside 3pt shot. Vince is definitely a 1st Ballot Hall Of Famer, I wish he would've won a 💍Championship ring, and I blame The Raptors not going all out to get the personal/players surrounding/helping him. I'm so glad current players have more freedom to explore free agency and not waste youth/talent on a franchise that doesn't want to win. Salute My Dude, you putting out great videos.

[@vizionaryentertainment8464]

I say yea but only because everyone gets into the hall in basketball. Football is starting to become the same way too

[@araf9823]

if Vince and t mac were to stay with the raps in their prime they would give won a chip

[@vizionaryentertainment8464]

@Jason Allen Vlade Divac, Drazen petrovic, Calvin Murphy, Tracy McGrady, Yao Ming, Gail Goodrich i could go on

[@sir.muffiniii7011]

@@vizionaryentertainment8464Vlade and Petrovic are there because of the things they did in non NBA leagues, and Goodrich and Yao deserve to be in, but not Murphy

[@marcaskew6199]

Vince was a beast he definitely deserves to be in the hall.

[@zl8652]

even though he doesnt have a lot of trophies, i think just off of his huge influence on the younger generation and how many kids, future nba players included, picked up basketball because vince inspired them, he deserves to be in the HOF

[@cojack636]

His prime numbers and allstar selections say he's in.

[@jerzyghost72]

This is the Dominique of this era. He's a Hof'er

[@miketaz5548]

If Tracey McGrady is in then this is a no brainer

[@sonoisrael4660]

McGrady was 10x better than Vince Carter you sleep bruh! If that Tim Duncan and Grant Hill trade situation went well it be a different story 😂. Vince was good but he was never really top 5 SG when he played.

[@miketaz5548]

@@sonoisrael4660 bro Vince got 10,000 more points than him and yeah you can say Vince played longer but in a very limited capacity. And they both were injury prone

[@adgee5401]

@@sonoisrael4660 I think you need to go back and take a look at Vince

[@thegawdvegito4260]

@@sonoisrael4660 lol its wasnt 10x better lol if kobe is a 10 tmac is a 9 and Vince is a 8

[@staciemohler4624]

23.9 points 5.4 rebounds 4.4 assists 1.3 steals 0.7 blocks VC in 99-00 08-09 26.8 points 6.4 rebounds 5.5 assists 1.4 steals 0.8 blocks T-MAC in 00-01 to 07-08 VC was at his best longer T-MAC best was better

[@steviecritiquenewby7874]

Vince Carter's the greatest dunker I ever seen

[@RonnyTheGamer]

This beat is legendary bro. Never get rid of it.. and as always, fire vid

[@f1fty_]

Been trying to find this beat! it’s fire 🔥

[@Arthurzeo]

@@f1fty_ You and Me both, love the instrumental.

[@AndreaBaixinho]

this instrumental is from JC's period as a rapper. It was used for one of his songs or freestyles, I guess. That's what he told me when I asked him through the comments a long time ago. As far as I know, it's not available anywhere as a standalone track

[@Arthurzeo]

@@AndreaBaixinho Good. It shouldn’t be available, that instrumental is Iconic!

[@Bankswantsyoutoknow]

The beat is one of the main things that have me watching these videos back to back to back

[@Diwani_Spark14]

He is definitely a hall of famer he’s top 20 all time in points. He was more than a dunker. Played 20 years in the nba no question one of the all time greats

[@richhomieant]

The fact that VC was a star and kinda changed the game makes him a HOF

[@boozywoozy73]

VC was one of my favorite SG growing up. Vince is one of the most talented SG of all time but he didn't have killer instinct. MJ said he didn't play d which is true and he took alot of 3's

[@Blastboost86]

Took a lot of 3’s because he shot a very high percentage. I would have too. That means you are a marksman. But to say he “didn’t have killer instinct” is not entirely true. Toronto management sucked and never really help VC with talent. VC was carrying the teams all the time. It’s only so much you can do by yourself. Look at MJ as well. He didn’t start winning until he had help with Pippen and the rest of the core of great solid players and bench. VC was dominant in his era from 99-09 averaging 24PPG, 5RPG and 4APG for the entire decade. Those are superstar numbers and maintain for a decade. You don’t do that with lack of desire. Now, could he have done more, sure. So many what if’s like if Tmac stayed in Toronto. We are having a different convo now aren’t we if they stayed? VC is a show is first ballot HOF. Over 25k points for his career. 8 straight all stars. 2 time all nba. Olympic gold medalist (leading scorer) 6th all time in 3’s. No question a first ballot HOF

[@PezOnTheBoards]

His post dunk celebration is subtle yet underrated ✊🏽👨🏽‍🦲✊🏽

[@Modeek6]

A few things. vince carter wasn’t traded to the magics and suns in the same season. He did spend 1 year with orlando and went to the eastern conference finals with them. He was traded the next season. Also can’t blame vince for them nets not winning. You forget who was the leader of those teams. Jason kidd. Vince did what he could.

[@blakelip3]

VC would be a Megastar in today’s game he’d get a max deal for sure

[@marcuseversley3334]

Prime Vince will easily get 200 mill in today's game

[@MannyMensah94]

Absolutely, Carter should be in the hall of fame

[@stuntedgrowth]

I think so too. First ballot?

[@MannyMensah94]

@@stuntedgrowth nah. 2nd ballet

[@pineapplegritz7281]

The Olympic Dunk of Death put the man in the HOF as soon as he got in the air. LolThen you add longevity, consistency. Could do whatever he wanted on the offensive side. Popularity. Vince for sure would be my 1st ballot choice

[@elliemyers6435]

@@stuntedgrowth Not first Ballot, but he gets in. His numbers are better than a lot of guys that are already in. Plus, I think the fact that he played so long, and effectively for so long helps him get in.

[@blakelip3]

VC was perfect I couldn’t imagine him being under 6’6 doing the dunks he was able to do

[@anthonykingdom6773]

Overall winning is definitely his stunt, but VC is legendary! Highlights that give you chills no matter how many times you see them. He's the definition of a dunk artist, unmatched body control with deceptive dunk on your head power. Not to mention all that athleticism and still an all timer at 3's. His nicknames should be on his hall of fame jacket tool!! Vinsanity, Air Canada and Half Man-Half Amazing.

[@jruss400]

Carter went crazy at that Olympics…and yes he is a hall of famer…he was a transcending player basically put basketball on a map for a whole country making him international he was a game changer and he transitioned to an older role player the game never got pass him so he’s a hall of famer in my book 🙏🏾🤷🏾‍♂️‼️

[@MoscoPortfolio]

You obviously don’t know enough about Vince. He was just not part of a great team. He was clutch and very talented. Vince sacrificed to get a ring for playing time. He didn’t want to win riding the bench. He was way more impactful than his numbers. He stepped aside and mentored younger players.

[@t-god2439]

What about when he played with kidd who just took that team to finals twice with what? J-rich and k-mart?

[@Arthur5000]

@@t-god2439 he wasnt on that team

[@t-god2439]

@@Arthur5000 I know Vince wasent but that team was like 2 years removed from the finals and he was supposed to be the piece

[@Arthur5000]

@@t-god2439 if you knew then why ask the question?!

[@t-god2439]

@@Arthur5000 no I was asking what’s his excuse for not even reaching the east finals when he played with kidd? Who was also in his prime at the time

[@venod3134]

Great content man. I just found this channel yesterday and the binge is underway!

[@AndreaBaixinho]

VC is so iconic

[@MakingMovesMajor]

His longevity will get him in, I think he's pretty far up there on the made 3pt list too. But he doesn't deserve to be first ballot because he never beat anyone when it mattered.

[@steveortiz1355]

Lmao...

[@MakingMovesMajor]

@J. Russell all those guys got to the Finals minus Reggie and even he was taking MJ to game 7. What did Vince teams do comparable?

[@rooseveltdarbey9493]

@@MakingMovesMajor Reggie miller got to the finals in 2000 against the Lakers.

[@TyCollinsSr]

I been waiting on this. I was going request this myself lol

[@georgethimakis4710]

Damn you did my favorite 2 players Ewing and Carter videos close to eachother lol love them

[@magicfanatics]

How did you not include the biggest stunt of his career ...injuries? His ACL/ jumper's knee injuries kept him out for a lot of games thus resulting in the Raptors losing. That was why the Raptors failed to make the playoffs during his final 2.5 seasons. It also stunted his growth as he lost a lot of his lateral quickness and some explosiveness that he had earlier in his career. VC was headed down the same path as Penny, Rose, And G.Hill from 02-04 when he was constantly getting injured. Thankfully, he changed his diet and incorporated pre and post game routines to salvage his career.

[@Kee-Von]

I love your videos! You deserve so many more subscribers. Thanks for what you do. So in depth. Plus I love the music. I've literally gone to bed after your videos before and hear it in my head. It's very relaxing lol.

[@donhaymon28]

That 97-98 UNC team was my squad!!! Miss those days!

[@courtneysmith1352]

Great video

[@EricOWilliam]

Excellent job sir 👏

[@Classicbasketballdvds]

i think VC15 is def HOF material...dude was just simply amazing to watch in the early-mid 00s. glad he didn't ring chase

[@Tyweezy84]

Dope video, i think he’s 100% get’n in 1st ballot. For sure

[@andrebryant5081]

His biggest stunt was chasing a check over a ring. He took roster spots on bad teams where he could have helped other guys who weren't NBA material get a shot to make some NBA money then play overseas after they get expose in real NBA games.

[@thejump9949]

um he wasnt chasing a check over a ring, where did that come from?? He just wanted playing time which was promised to him, and isn't promised on a championship roster. He was playing on vet minimum and getting 20-25 mpg. He didnt want to ride the bench his way to a championship.

[@heartbreakkid2]

Hof!! Great video stunted

[@vaughanjohnson6865]

Another great video in the books. As much as it took me down memory lane(I'm 43)it really was disappointing for all the talent he had. Other than mj,kobe,ai,kg,tmac,cwebb he was the guy that filled the stacks of vhs tapes id watch repeatedly back in the day. The end where described why he'll make the hof is well said 👏

[@Triniboi05]

Great breakdown and I totally agree that he should be in the hall even if not right away

[@thejump9949]

There are a lot of things wrong in this video: 1. You said at the 8:27 mark that VC was traded from the nets to the magic and then to phoenix all within the same season, that is completely wrong. VC got traded from the nets to the magic in 09 offseason, played an ENTIRE season with the magic, went to the ECF with dwight howard as second leading scorer on that team, and then half of the magic roster was traded the FOLLOWING season, at the end of the year. 2. You say he joined bottom feeder teams at the time, "atlanta hawks, sacremento kings and memphis grizzlies". Again wrong, the memphis grizzlies went to the western conference playoffs in all 3 seasons that vince was there and even made it to the 2nd round in 2014-2015, and took gsw to 6 games that season, the only team to do so. 3. You fail to mention that out of VCs entire career the only time he's ever really had a Center was his 1 season with Dwight Howard (made ECF that season). Before that VC never had a true center, AI had defensive player of the year dikembe mutombo in 01, Wade had Shaq, Kobe had Shaq, who has VC had? I didn't think that I'd have to call you out on a video before, but this just makes me feel like your videos may have other errors like these. He also was not waived by the suns, he had a contract year with them and played out his contract with them then in the offseason signed with the mavericks for 3 years. Get your facts straight man.

[@jayfly3356]

My top 5 favorite player of all time plus this man made a whole country love the sport of basketball

[@drcharlesbombay]

He put my city on the basketball map!!! He put the whole country on the list as well... The only time I’ve EVER heard the lyrics of the National Anthem get a remix was the first Toronto home game after the 2000 dunk off (the second last line got switched from “oh Canada we stand on guard for thee” to “Vince Carter you are amazing!!!” Truth be told... He was!!! Hall of Famer... First Ballot!!! I hope they don’t fuck this up.

[@NoDebtButLove]

Vince was exciting to watch.

[@musiclover-cn7tb]

Vince Carter should be in the hall of fame I still get riled up watching old games and dunks of his .

[@jaleelmuhammad9659]

He was the face of the league for first 5 years, a star for another five years on nets, and a respectable role player for 12. How huge he was in his prime combined with his willingness to stick around forever to fall from stardom but still be respected for his skills on the court at 40 should all be easily justified as a YES

[@bbryant9455]

That 98 draft is still up there for me. So underrated. Vinsanity, Paul Pierce, White chocolate, Dirk, antawn Jamison, Mike Bibby, Rashard Lewis

[@meharinationsportspodcast2582]

I've struggled with this subject for years and gotten into heated debates on Carter's place in the Hall of Fame. The man was largely responsible for lifting basketball into major prominence in Canada. His dunks were legendary, unbelievable charisma, excellent shooter, and can take over a game when needed. The way I look at his career is as gifted he was in basketball, there were times he lacked the desire to become even greater than Kobe Bryant. Carter admitted that he didn't play hard to his ability at times. His teams didn't win enough to warrant HOF status. But also he left Toronto on very bad terms. From my perspective, Carter doesn't cut it as a Hall of Famer. But I believe he'll get in because of his good guy reputation, plus Tracy McGrady got in on the first ballot and underachieved even more than Carter. It's a very different subject and I know many people will have different opinions.

[@meharinationsportspodcast2582]

@LoSLakaFan28 That's the facts. Without Carter, basketball in Canada would not become as popular then what we see now.

[@damonwade9476]

Salute to Vince Carter💯💯

[@jme2116]

What?! Of course he is If Tracy McGrady is hof .. he is to period

[@teddrickjohnson2050]

I wii never forget the dunk of death,yeah he gets in,he was always a help to teams,it's just that they were bad,He was an all-star an overall a solid player but not a guy you could build a team around.

[@corey22beardable]

My favorite basketball player of all time

[@therealreal7206]

Those high school highlights look CRAZY

[@jameswilliams406]

WITHOUT A DOUBT HELL YES

[@quentincassell840]

Mann why this is even a discussion frfr. It’s dumb to even question this. The man is first ballot easily without question. He was one of the faces of the league is his prime and a bonafied superstar

[@konstantinkoverchenko9587]

Vince definitely the best underachiever in the history of basketball. He was athletic, but had absolutely no heart. Despite the obvious, he might be able to sneak into the hof based solely off of the length of his career.

[@AT3374]

No heart ? Come on now

[@coolassvelly8164]

Yea you don’t know wtf you talkin about lol

[@coolassvelly8164]

@@AT3374 he’s chatting lol

[@chrismathgenius]

Toronto Basketball wouldn't be where it's at today without Vince Carter. 8-time All-Star, 2-time All-NBA, and 2000 Olympic Gold Medalist. Definitely a Hall of Famer. First ballot is debatable, but he should get in.

[@ronaldestubblefield7023]

I remember during when I was in Middle School at the Steve Francis Basketball Camp in Takoma Park, MD(I won MVP for my age bracket as we won the Camp Tournament). Anyway, Steve Francis and David Vanterpool(who is a MoCo MD legend and former NBA Player and Coach), had a Q&A for us at the end of the camp. It was asked was Kobe or Vince the next MJ. What they said stuck with me-Kobe wasn't as stylish as MJ was at the time but can grow into it, Vince had the exciting play style but lacked the drive and hunger to hit the levels he was expected to. Vince is a HOF but that lack of drive to be the face of the league which Kobe became more or less sums him up. Great job @StuntedGrowth

[@gooneybird808]

My hero :) yes he is a hall of famer

[@tonyfj2687]

HOF NO QUESTION

[@RELLertainment]

VC is hof in my eyes, idk what ballot but he gets in. Greatest dunker ever, put the raptors on the map. He put in enough pain to be in !!

[@martinpayne3994]

Big Dawg I think you should do the Ray Mercer Story

[@vaughanjohnson6865]

Never clicked so fast lol

[@SP-ve1im]

This is the basketball Hall, he will get in.

[@williesmith9638]

YES

[@kidokoala]

I want to see your takes on Reggie, Allen Iverson, Miller, Kevin Nash, Charles Barkley, Sidney Moncrief, etc.

[@cornbreadmilton5265]

Yes Vince is HOF material,da man Resurrected da Dunk Contest n took da title of "Dunk GOD"The dunk in the Olympics over the ol boi,Boi, his insane flexibility on da court,VC was incredible,add a Championship 2 his career dat would definitely mean HOF without a doubt.

[@mastermindmartialarts]

For sure Vince is a hall of famer. Perhaps he should have accomplished more, but what he brought to the game during his career is more than enough to get in.

[@diysneakermaestro9462]

Toronto and NJ Nets Vince carter was nice

[@aaronhutchinson885]

As a Raptor fan and a West end Native, He turned the city up. That body on Zo is unreal..he is a top 3 game dunker IMO..I think it's MJ overall, because there were real centers. if TMAC got in, especially 1st ballot..Vince should get in as well. That situation in 01, with his graduation before Game 7 v Philly will always hurt.

[@elliemyers6435]

Top 3 in game dunker? Definitely Number 1 overall in game dunker. The bodies he has are insane...That one you mentioned on Zo (even though he was on the nets for that one :) ) and the one he has on Mutombo are just insane.

[@jsn23nc]

Vince Carter is without doubt first ballad HOF. He was one of the many players that was considered the next Jordan

[@Dakid4rmdade]

I use to pray to be able to dunk like Vince lol.

[@rahbaby17]

Vince is definitely a hof ...that boy was cold

[@rickyharrell8908]

No doubt

[@brandonbrown1916]

No question!

[@robertlowrie8446]

He'll get in on the first ballot. Dunks are so important to the popularity of basketball that of course the best dunker of all time should be in the hall of fame. Also, playing more seasons than any other player is reason enough to be in the hall of fame.

[@TakingFlightSports]

DEFINITELY HALL OF FAMER!

[@fade2black1982]

Vince belongs in the Hall

[@myway5536]

His dunks overshadowed him foreal

[@omoowobhd]

The NBA's best dunker by far to me & an explosive leaper! Hope he makes the H.O.F.

[@zeroturn7091]

*in any scenario If we’re talking about strictly the dunk contest Aaron Gordon has a slight edge.

[@bjnt92281]

I remember watching the 2000 dunk contest and losing my mind when he put his whole arm in the rim. I tried to duplicate it the next day and almost broke my arm. 😄 Hall of famer? Eventually.

[@AMGTT]

I will say because of his dunking ability which makes him very rare and unique yes he is a HOF player for sure just off his athletic ability to dunk!

[@shyce100]

It’s people in the hall less deserving than Vince , He def first ballot

[@robjamison3372]

He put Toronto on the map let’s start there

[@miked.336]

If tmac and Webber just made it. Vince is in.

[@oseiamoah22]

He played 20 games in the 04-05 for the raptors before going to the nets that year

[@t-god2439]

He is hall of very good

[@stancoward9394]

Do this for Robert Horry, me and my homies always debating if Horry will go in HOF...

[@knoda2603]

💯

[@Jiron127]

Horry on stats isn't getting in lol. Horry playing on three franchise level teams to get 7?? I'd say 50/50.

[@Arthur5000]

Stats wise hell no

[@poisticink193]

Vince was a great player but what declined his comparison to Kobe & Jordan was the lack of defense & leadership. Throughout his career, I was hoping he would add more to his game but he didn't. Nevertheless, I'm still a fan!

[@cojack636]

Kobe and leadership in the same sentence?🤦‍♂️ Jordan?😭...I'll admit Vince didn't have that mean streak or assh*le gene in him. In his prime he put up numbers, and at one time he was the most popular player in the league, a perennial allstar, went to the NBA finals and became one of the best 3point shooters of his era.

[@ruxcooking]

Kobe was such a great marketer.

[@GammaJay03]

He is definitely a first ballot, but what might hold him back is the rings.

[@XKG910]

I think he's maybe HOF, but only thing I know for sure he's the best player to come out of UNC in 4 decades

[@Ohh_Really]

DUNKS, 7footer, thru the legs= classic moments = HOF

[@talleybandaman]

You cannot tell the story of basketball without Vince Carter...he first ballot Hof

[@Arthurzeo]

What's the name of this Iconic instrumental?!!

[@JimBrownski]

DEFINITELY HOFER...If not 1st ballot, then 2nd or 3rd easily. He was better than TMAC if we being honest, at least longevity wise. TMAC had higher peaks (scoring champ, etc), but Vince was more consistent for a longer period.

[@ytodysm4893]

Shows how much I know about shit. I had no idea about his volleyball game. Dude was probably scary as hell to go up against. Probably dunked on his on teammates to get those kills.

[@stevewilliams3803]

You missed the stunt of the Raptors GM . Great video though. Def 1st ballot !

[@Dantana773]

Yes he is a Hall of famer!!! in My opinion

[@zenmar2415]

As a small forward ,his handles is pretty decent but one thing that frustrates me when it comes to his game is that he loves to settle for jumpers

[@UndisputedchampionUFCFLYWEIGHT]

I always wonder why Clyde Drexler didn’t reach his full growth and why was it stunted can you do a video on him?because I’m 15 years old and my dad always talk about the OGS of basketball before my time so it good to know my basketball history

[@skah80]

If Mitch Richmond can get into the HOF based off of getting buckets on lottery teams then VC shouldn’t be an issue to be inducted with all he’s accomplished and his influence.

[@blakelip3]

Best Dunker EVER !!!!