Expert Fence Builder Reacts to DIY Fence Gate Building Hack!

[@AlexSonge0]

Re: woodworking joints: I'd use a half-lap joint. You can drive screws or bolts into the joint to prevent racking, but you also get a good glue surface. Mortise and tenon requires a bit more precision, and while wood movement is a worry, the expansion and contraction across a 3.5" isn't enough to make a glue joint fail (thaw/freeze cycles are probably going to make a glue joint fail). Mitered (45deg) joints are actually really weak in wood because endgrain does *not* glue well at all. They're only as strong as butt joints, really.

[@fryefencecurbscapingllc9817]

Exactly what I would suggest.

[@sommerbrandon]

I was going to say the same thing, just went to the comments first to make sure this was suggested.

[@beck007able]

That is what I did to my drive through gate, 2 - 6' panels. They have been standing straight for more than 10 years. Rot and decay is starting to take it toll now but it is still standing true. I did have to guy back the fence post due to sagging with seasons.

[@letiscafeschoolhouse1114]

Agreed +1, that gate is not going to last very long and why did he use uneven length boards on it? I don't get it..... and why not a proper half lap joint instead of the strange butt joint. Go figure...

[@barrettready1713]

Agreed

[@CookieDoughBoy]

10 seconds in, and this man is obviously a legit expert.

[@JoeEverest]

Thanks for watching!

[@BMRFARMSKY]

I'd half lap the joints then bolt through with carrage bolts. Built alot this way. Never had a call back.

[@landmarkcreations1183]

I’ve always built my gate in the opening, just like you would built a panel. I toenail the 2x4 on the post using finish nails, and after put the boards and brace on I leave a space for the gate to open. I put the hinges on and then take the toe nails out via hammer and then cut the excess off the 2x4s and then add latch when finished. I never build gates on the ground (I’m too fat lol). Great channel man really enjoy it

[@jaysdood]

Hey champ, as an experienced wood worker I can attest to the fact that a lap joint is much stronger than a mitre joint. I prefer mortise and tenon joints and will use those for building a gate if I've got time.

[@rogerbettencourt9654]

Always love the content Joe. Thanks and keep them coming. You had a minute and a half commercial, perfect time for me to get the nachos out of the oven. You keep doing what you do and I will keep watching the commercials. 👍

[@flippingdrummer]

The level of quality and effort in your videos is so impressive, you deserve so many more subscribers than you have.

[@hubster69jdj]

18:17 like you said use the yarn or string to align the picket tops for that very reason. You can see the leftmost picket sits WAY lower than the rightmost picket when he fully closes the gate. I think the most ironic part is that the rightmost picket is almost perfectly aligned with the pickets on the fence to the left of the gate. Instead he ended up just sloping it up to the right. I would send that back for that reason even before the "eyeball" measurement between the center two pickets.

[@jaysdood]

I use the same technique to mount the gate in place but instead of screws, I use F Clamps. This prevents holes plus can be easily readjusted.

[@Biomedman82]

Great video. In my experience as a woodworker, a half lap joint would be a better option rather than the notch he cut on the gate. It doesn't take too much time either. Just my 0.02 centavos

[@Jdww89]

Why does he toenail his brace from the brace to the frame and then from the frame to brace? Instead of toenailing both of them from either brace to frame or frame to brace?. I'm still wondering on the brace should it be flat on top or does the triangle where it hits both sides of the frame Make it stiffer?

[@a3883m]

I’m learning just like you are but I’ve been going down and video rabbit hole. Apparently, the angle for a brace to the horizontal “runner?” That attaches to the hinge should be greater than 45 degrees. Similarly, the angle from the brace to the vertical part of the frame should be less than 45 degrees. I don’t know up until which point that holds up (say 30%) but in my guess because a brace that attaches flat on top would give a larger angle to the runner than the triangle where it hits both sides, I’m guessing flat top would be the way to go. That said, you can’t screw the flat top into both the runner and the vertical part of the frame so I’m not sure how that affects it. Would imagine the brace with more contact with the runner would be better since that’s what it’s supporting? That said, anyone who knows more feel free to correct me as I’m just learning, myself.

[@robturner7853]

Overall I think he did a great job for not being a Pro-Fence Guy....He did put alot of thought into the project🤔. I overbuild everything lol!!!! Always good to hear what you have to say Joe😉

[@MrKistel]

Mind including a link to the original video in the video description and a in video card?

[@MrKistel]

@@JoeEverest 💪👍

[@bronsonstein7724]

Andy Rawls did a great video about testing the strength of different joints, I'd check it out! I'm a huge fan of the mortise and tenon in most cases, but I worry about doing it outdoors on my fence gate given the opportunity for that severe expansion and contraction due to weather to effect the stability of the joint over time. I just see the tenoned section swelling or shrinking at different rates than the mortised section and it causing an issue down the road.

[@bryanmelton4173]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge! I enjoy your constructive criticism on other people's videos

[@NinjaTheLego]

It may just be an optical illusion, but in the end, the pickets on the hinge side look taller than the latch side. I think it would have looked better if all the pickets were the same.

[@TheMFLAV]

100%

[@malmcauliffe3288]

No illusion, shit gate build

[@Rembo318]

Its because the pickets on the latch side of the gate are farther away from the camera m, by a few feet. They may actually be a little higher also too, but the one side being closer to the camera definately makes the difference look larger than it is in reality

[@shaunbrown1402]

Just subscribed, this channel is really informative, keep up the good work buddy.

[@stickyvids15]

I watched the original video then found yours in a suggested video and I really appreciate the analysis. You were a little easy on him but I think you did a great job pointing out the major issues and how you would do things differently was very helpful. Look forward to seeing more of the types of videos!

[@joejones56]

Would there be any added value of fastening a 1/16 or 1/8 in strip of SS to the bottom of the gate to stop sagging ?

[@alexgrubb6640]

Half lap joint brother! Nice tip on using steel posts to support the gate. Can you link the hardware you use for hinges/latches please? Thanks for the video!

[@Twinpinesfenceanddeck]

Joe, did you say you would use a finish nail?

[@MichaelBlast]

I have my 4x6 post installed 36" deep here in Florida. Double gates should be around 50" each Was wondering if there's any videos of building gate on the fence instead of on driveway.

[@jiminatorx]

Somebody just made a video about the strongest cabinet joints, testing all different types of methods, and he showed that 45° angles with glue, probably the simplest type of joint you can make, was one of the strongest.

[@etherx8604]

"Somebody just made a video about the strongest cabinet joints" Would you PLEASE post a link

[@jiminatorx]

@@etherx8604 kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXaUZWqFrJyFo68

[@wikster6630]

Do you recommend ring shank nails or screws for fastening pickets to fence rails? I'm redoing my fence that I built 25 years ago right now. Used ring shank nails back then but they've always worked themselves out of the wood. Used 1 1/2" nails through the picket into framing. Appreciate any info. And yes your videos can be entertaining as well as informative. Thanks

[@scottsprowl7484]

Half lap joint for gates work well, I've done 45s too. But I'm done with making the frame of wood, I'm a steel guy now.

[@jimmypodunk]

I don't know if 45 deg joints would be better or not. I'm thinking if you tie it in at the corners with fence board that should give the frame more strength than any of those joints alone.

[@Rembo318]

I’d definately use a halflap joint. The only way i’d use miter joints (45* joints he mentioned) is if i added some hardwood splines, or go real fancy and do a halflap miter with some contrasting dowels through em lol. Wouldnt waste the time on either for a fence gate tho. Halflap is way stronger than miter joints and much more simple that mortise and tenon. Plain Miter Joints are about the worst joint you could use on a gate. I’d use butt joints before miters lol.

[@TheMFLAV]

Okay Joe, about 10 years ago I build t double door gates between both my neighbors and my houses so we can both get vehicles into our back yards. It is attached to both our houses but we get really bad sag from the center point. I only used a 4x4 post concreted in 24". The gates are both apx 8-9' in width. My question is if I replace the center post with steel will it be enough to hold the weight? Thank you for any reply

[@TheMFLAV]

@@angrypatriot490 I considered casters for sure.

[@zackje1]

Joe, if you have a gate post that lands on a concrete walkway do you cut a hole to sink the post or surface mount? If surface what type and length of screws do you use? Thank you sir.

[@zackje1]

@@JoeEverest Does that seem to hold up over time? My father in law is advising me "Not to".

[@danielfaupl520]

I think the strongest joint would be mortise and tendon but would obviously be more difficult

[@81Lord-Nikon]

You were very nice to that guy. That gate was a mess. The pickets even sloped down. I really hope he was building that on his own property.

[@martynlee5575]

Just subscribed. Fascinating how you build fences in the USA.

[@jdubdoubleu]

Does using foam for steel fence post have the same strength as cement with wood post?

[@ahatter20]

Agree use as big hinges

[@RaMcHiPTech]

Man I feel like I got all the hacks. I just put runners where the gate is going to be. Measure a gap inside from either side of the gate post and mark it on the runners. Then box in between the runners with timberlocks, run trussing with timberlocks, picket then cut the gate out. Get 0 sag all the time and the runners for the gate are perfectly in line with the rest of the fence... PS I used 6x6s where the hinges go to prevent sagging even further. I can build up to 12' double gates with this method...

[@RaMcHiPTech]

@@JoeEverest anytime! Maybe I'll make a video showing the process and post it for you to critique and analyze. Our gate are our pride and joy, 0 sag every time and last as long as the wood lasts.

[@courtnash]

Hey Joe, I’m building a fence this weekend. I would like a double gate for future setup for an electric gate opener. This will probably happen in a year. I would like to have the metal post to help keep it from sagging. What kit or method would you recommend. Not many people are doing metal posts for the gates. I believe we will make the opening 14ft. What’s your thought?

[@databang]

What’s the second most callback reason after gates?

[@JoeEverest]

Storm damage!

[@gammerr82]

Like his idea behind it. I be lack of contact in there that looks poor. Everyone I took out I got 5 ft around of concrete.I put a lag in there so keeps from bending if moves it snaps

[@johnb94]

Where can i ask you questions about my fence my contractor is refusing to come fix it, so im forced to do it my self

[@j.kevinallen8575]

What do you fill the hole with Joe??

[@gvanys]

Joe can you do video about Nail gun and air compressor to use, and how to build a gate?

[@BryanLeach]

is it just me or did that gate sag 2" in the last shot? @18:35 look at the left most gate picket, its 2" lower than the latch post picket. Then back up @17:52 and the top of pickets are level.

[@pilotrafal]

Look at 15:38

[@hubster69jdj]

This is blowing my mind. It does look like they were in perfect alignment beforehand then sagged at the end.

[@paulatudor691]

Yes I tried to use them for a corral gate but they bent and I was using 40 penny nails I remember they were 7 dollars each 30years ago. And I replaced them with the square ones for 5bucks each and they lasted till I quit raising horses. It was a 6’ wide gate. So the patio deck got square set also still have the patio gate latched.Yes they looked like they would hold with a person climbing on it by their size . But turned out to just look big.Tge only way I would recommend them is if you were down to them or an opening in where the fair goes and then I would wait on something else. Their price was tough though. Good luck.

[@marcusviles1328]

Great Channel keep up the good work.. very informative. Can you make a video of the jigs you use? you mentioned a jig to replace string for picket installation? ;)

[@shaunbrown1402]

Even if I did the fence for free, I wouldn't do it like that. Spacing the panels, I would start by putting one dead centre, the do either side, it makes it easier the get it spot on. Plus three hinges are prone to squeaking. My tip would be to arch the top, that way it identifies the gate better, and means that the fence doesn't have to be matched when the gate warps slightly as the seasons come around. If a large gate is being fitted, I would use something stronger than the same dencity wood that he's used there.

[@MichaelSaull]

He definitely should have used a lap joint. I recently built a hanging/sliding gate and used a pocket screw approach which is much stronger than toenailing but not quite as strong as a lap joint. However executing that many lap joints is a bit tedious and since it was a hanging gate it didn't need a ton of strength. Also the design of my gate meant all the pocket screw holes would be covered by pickets.

[@gvanys]

Joe am building a fence at my house I got the line for the post marked I have total 34 whole 6 feet a part. I was able to dig 32 holes but 2 I couldn't dig it because there is a large root what do you do in this case?

[@charlessloop1552]

Saws all removed the roots or move the posts to equal spacing

[@slippinslidewayz]

The strongest joint imo would be to leave both boards without cuts, but one against the other, and use pocket holes to join against the lateral grain. Cutting the board in half will compromise the strength and cutting them at 45 degrees will cause your screws to join into the end grain, which will fail over time.

[@stich1960]

Personally I never glue outdoor items because I dont believe it will hold through hot cold cycling. We have very extreme temps and cycling in my area. Could be wrong but I have fixed trim that was glued and finished nice where someone decided to leave their house unconditional while they where out

[@mikemorgan5015]

Miters are horribly weak unless you insert a spline running perpendicular to the joint line. Half laps are really strong joints. The ultimate would probably be a mortise and tenon with draw bored dowels. With the advent of Tightbond III and polyurethane truly waterproof glues, these traditional joints actually have a chance of lasting...... haha. Any joint relying solely on wood screw will probably loosen up sooner than later. What made me slap my forehead more than anything in the video was when he didn't do some math so that the picket spacing came out even.

[@3rdHalf1]

I weld fences and gates from steel and even I won’t ever use 3 hinges. Because if they are not aligned perfectly - they will prematury wear out. And I always use adjustable hinges, so the owner can re-level gates in upcoming years - ading third hinge makes it impractical. 3 hinges are only for heavy steel or hard-wood doors, where the frame and door is fabricated as a single piece.

[@davidmorris6889]

Bridle joint is the better than a half lap. The half lap is easier, and better than end grain to end grain 45.

[@psychicspy]

Just purchase a galvanized tube cattle gate and screw slats onto it. The gate costs $109 at Tractor Supply and it won't go out of square. I have two 6 ft cattle gates in my backyard and the gates have outlasted the pickets.

[@JoeEverest]

Nice! I appreciate you sharing your experience!

[@skinlab4239]

my 7' 1'' gate hasn't sagged after six years. I cut a panel down and braced it properly. No wood besides the pickets needs to be vertical unless extra weight is wanted. Not all gates have issues.

[@paulatudor691]

I have used those hinges and was very disappointed with that type they are not heavy duty. After they gave a little bit I had to replace them with smaller square ones they hold better

[@hammerslap5639]

the middle rail being different than the rest of the fence, and those two middle pickets being spaced so much closer together... my wife would shank me.

[@BradHuebner1]

Lap joint is twice as strong. That is if you glue and screw.

[@alekjohnson7261]

You mentioned a finish nail? Do you guys use finishing nails to secure pickets? Everyone I talked and the internet says no way to finish nails or nailer.

[@JuddMaltin7]

I'd do the join with a mitered mortise and tenon with a draw-bore peg. It'll never move.

[@northwestgaming4049]

Run 45° welded joint on 1.5 steel tubing. Only way I make gates. No fuss no muss. Hang and forget. I also prefer metal post.

[@northwestgaming4049]

That and I also like using bolts through material. Post and the gate. This way as post shrinks and rots gate can be tighten to help longevity.

[@fitzpattrickwalsh1318]

Half lap would be the best joint here

[@albertcho4540]

Ill be using festool dominos. 45 would be very weak even with dominos. I totally agree that some strength is taken away by his method, but ill do that over the 45

[@Doneallicando]

What are dominos?

[@pinkrainbowkennelz1640]

Minute 15:52 Is a clear example why u said dnt 👁ball because my eyes clearly c the 2 fence pickets n the middle r way closer than all of the other 1's

[@khd17]

Want to see how to straighten metal fence posts please

[@brianbanks3044]

i couldn't hear but how did the builder know the two pieces in the middle of the pickets would end up with good spacing....and are the pickets lower on one side compared the the fence??....it looked like a quality job though and since it was probably his own home, he wasn't worried about a few extra screw holes on the inside of the gate

[@CherryCHERRY-go6zj]

My dad always taught me and my brother is a Contractor and says 45 is way to go way stronger

[@beardyface8492]

Want to see the best joints for gate frames, go look at some farm gates built before steel ones took over, not that the average fence builder & particularly not Joe DIY will be able to actually produce close fitting pegged mortices & tenons, but those are the actual answer to the "best way", they also overcome the fact that no carpenter's glue is actually long term waterproof regardless of claims on the packages, & don't get me started on the interactions between metal fasteners & woodworking joinery in exposed outdoor conditions. DIYers don't build gates, they basically produce something which resembles the bastard offspring of two uprights combined with a ledge & brace door & call it a gate. Or else just a ledge & brace door with gaps between the upright facing.

[@johnswan9123]

He notched right by that knot which could split over time. If you're going to notch do a full overlap with polyurethane glue.

[@grumpygit447]

Concrete posts are the way to go

[@anonymousperson4363]

Where do you get them?

[@pbmartinfencing]

Why would you build the frame on the ground ? We build all our gates in frame . We leave 3/4 inch gaps , have never had a callback, we specialize in gate rebuilds

[@kimshanna]

Do you have diagonal bracing on your gates? My gate was just replaced and while the gate looks good, it does not meet in center and is already sagging and warping. Contractor did not cross brace or add vertical support, just a fence panel cut in half. I know it's done wrong, but everything I've seen you build a frame outside the area. How do you build it in place? This is all wood by the way.

[@7628739]

Use an infinity hinge and it us easy peezy

[@namronsamoth4759]

End grain shouldn't be glued as glue will push up with the direction of grain so even 45 cut would have same problem. Ask any cabinet makers

[@XxLuvverofMusicxX]

My OCD would blow up if this person built a gate/fence for me. Mismatched hinges, non standard gaps between the pickets.

[@shanethompson4865]

Joe, your constructive criticism is very professional. However, just the fact you critique these folks is the reason I do not make videos. LOL And in my case I do fence repair so I have to build new gates into an existing fence. Any suggestions as to how to do this if the gates posts are not plum?

[@davepoulton7530]

do a furniture bridal joint

[@brb1050]

Half lap/ ship lap screwed and glued beats 45 anytime.

[@anthonywakefield5217]

Looks to me like he picked an arbitrary measurement for the board (picket) spacing so he wouldn't have to rip a fence board. The section to the left has even smaller gaps than the gate. When I'm using a t-hinge similar to what he used I always make sure my gate is supported by the hinge before I start putting up boards. There is just too much movement in the hinge itself to rely on his method every time. ...and did he use cedar rails (stringers)? That strikes me as a sure-fire way to have sections sagging within a couple months, even with a third rail installed. I tried to clarify my terminology a bit; everyone has a different way of saying the same thing :)

[@doobiedoghousewilson]

Half lap joint any day. Joining 45s would be much weaker. Is method of building the gate is basically correct.

[@BC-MiningInHotFlorida]

Should do lap joints and glue and screw the joint.

[@snap-off5383]

45° sliding dovetail miter joint.

[@mitchodds]

Half lap joints are WAY stronger than 45° joints. Face grain to face grain joints are ridiculously strong. End grain to end grain joints are horrible. Imagine the grain of the wood as a stack of spaghetti noodles or straws. End to end isn't going to stick well.

[@letiscafeschoolhouse1114]

If I was going to cut the corners on my gate would do a half lap or better yet a mortise and tendon.. or use the festool and do the extra wide dowels. The way he has it is no very much better than the butt joint he started with.

[@robturner7853]

Biscuit joints or even dowels!! hell you can use scrap for dowels

[@charlessloop1552]

I think this guy is a carpenter not a fence installer seems like he made this way harder then it needs to be. Keep it simple

[@mrb4408]

A 45 degree lap joint

[@unikornkontroller]

I love your videos but I have to disagree with both the mitered joints and the notches he did in this video. Gluing end grain provides very little structural support. You get the most holding power by gluing perpendicular grain (and screwing as well). A half lap joint would be the best option and it would give some amazing lateral and vertical support because of how much surface area is being glued (assuming your half laps are done on the wider face of the 2x4).

[@JoeEverest]

Appreciate you watching and sharing your experience!

[@kbstrong4028]

My gate lasted 1 week before it started scraping the ground and I could no longer open it all the way

[@victoryak86]

As far as fitting the gate , why not just make frame sides a little wider, enough for trimming to fit? People do this all the time when making and hanging doors. Surprised you didn’t point this out as such an experienced fence builder.

[@tabcobra]

I am a real fence pro. You NEVER build a gate off the fence. We call that “homeowner” style, ten times the effort and time and always seems to fail early.

[@brustfencingandgatescompan3855]

Post your work

[@tabcobra]

@@brustfencingandgatescompan3855 I don’t think you can post pictures back on KZbin.

[@MichaelBlast]

It seems to make sense to build gate on fence. I'm looking for some examples videos

[@oneofakind3004]

I said building the gate on the gate takes out the possibility for it to not fit right? To not have uneven gaps? My gates are proof that's not exactly true .

[@whitepickettfencesllchandy8716]

Half Lap joints for the gate.

[@victoryak86]

Miters are by far NOT the strongest wood joint. Mortise and tenon is probably the strongest.

[@davidkillington-hayward6130]

45 half lap

[@pbmartinfencing]

Why would you not just use a 6x6? We use them on every gate

[@nicholassmith7932]

That gate won't last long. Probably fall apart in a few years. We use 3x3 rails braces and uprights. Mostly cedar here in massachusetts. Not much PT fencing. We like to use dowelled construction Interesting to see how other people do things.

[@letiscafeschoolhouse1114]

ALl he did was a different butt joint. 45 vs 90 vs 90 hybrid joint not a. Fan A half lap glued and screwed much stronger.

[@j777]

His eye balls are definitely not mine, that middle is horrible. And about the remaining holes, my experience is that if someone does that, they'll say it's OK and you're complaining for nothing.

[@jeffmcmahon615]

cant glue end grain

[@JoeEverest]

Great catch!

[@calvinhobbs89]

I'll put money on those cute tiny screws not holding for very long 🤔