John Cooper: Skillet Frontman on Going Postmil, "Wimpy, Weak and Woke", Leaving Nuetral World

[@perryhess7999]

This makes me love Skillet all the more! “Undefeated!”

[@theloveoflifepodcast1162]

Great interview, Tim! Two postmill rockers sit down and have a chat. Good stuff.

[@timbushong4387]

Thnx so much!

[@mrsandlesseasttn7780]

Love you brother John!! I pray you never let up!!

[@MrBowser2012]

Yep, I’m buying this book!

[@andrewmiller2922]

I love this man!

[@timbushong4387]

I like that Cooper guy as well... (o:

[@jason.martin]

Wow, what a great chat!!! so solid

[@AustinGonder]

I’m so excited that John is postmil! So based

[@Robert_Sparkman_03]

Great discussion.

[@squidward3333]

Soooooo glad he watches Jon Harris. Hoping he gets more and more based.

[@EmissariesoftheGospel]

He is really based

[@squidward3333]

If he starts becoming friends with Andrew Iskar/CJ Engel, it will be EPIC.

[@EmissariesoftheGospel]

@@squidward3333 maybe. I really like his friendship with Dr White and Jeff Durbin, also Joel Webbon. I prefer their ethic because of its biblical precision

[@squidward3333]

Well Joel Webbon is good friends with Andrew! So his trajectory is looking great! @@EmissariesoftheGospel

[@vicnic5918]

Tracked w all of your discussion. I'll be 70 in March. Renewed faith8n Jesus iny early 20s. Watched How Shall We Then Live series at church that hosted Fish House. Your emphasis on Bible Binary is essential for the Church to return to a firm foundation. BTW... seeing Phil Keaggy at Emmanuel Lutheran in Feb! Thanks, Men, for standing firm..

[@ludwiguy51]

John, when you spoke on the victory of Christ and the quote from Spurgeon I knew we are on the same page. So often the debates on eschatology miss this point. Thanks!

[@GTWAL]

Jeff durbin in a parallel world

[@subjecttochrist]

😆

[@subjecttochrist]

A karate chopping rockstar

[@MountainofYahweh]

Coolest podcast / stage show ever! Jeff Durbin - Joel Weebon - John Cooper - on stage at a Fight Laugh Feast Event

[@onebadpig9258]

I was also raised pretrib premil dispensationalist. A book which was required reading for a missions trip defended pretrib against midtrib and posttrib views, which I'd never encountered before. The book unexpectedly opened my eyes to the weakness of the pretrib view, and I started rethinking things. In the end, I settled on amil rather than postmil, based on passages like Luke 18:8 and 2 Peter 3. The Lord is reigning and putting all things under His feet, and satan is defeated, but sin yet remains. Like in Christian music, there is much rot in Christianity in America.

[@jason.martin]

Gotta get the book!!!

[@turnercurry8379]

Could someone please give me the name of the group singing the bumper music during the intro to this series? I would love to listen to more of their music.

[@eschatology_matters]

Tim Bushong, "I Know My Redeemer Lives"

[@timbushong4387]

Yup - it's me! (and our Church)

[@turnercurry8379]

Great song, great sound. Thanks.

[@timbushong4387]

@@turnercurry8379 - Thank you - blessings!

[@beautyandthefaith]

I’ve been saying for some time now that the church needs to make sure we are teaching the artists with the gospel. Artists has so much influence in today’s society, and this is a great example of how the church was able to relate to a rocker and he is now making massive headway for the Kingdom. One way of making sure we reach them is to start with beauty and the creative attributes of God, as it a key pre-conversion experience for many, especially artists, like it was for me. The post-mill truth includes everyone in the church for important service according to the diversity of gifts. The pre-milk perspective reduces it down, and makes many left out and forced into roles they were not called for. Keep up the good work.

[@MountainofYahweh]

John - is Skillet going to play at the next Fight, Laugh Feast conference?

[@andrewbrowne5557]

‘They’ now claim that the distinction is binary/non-binary…that’s two groups…BINARY again!! Christ or chaos!!

[@MountainofYahweh]

John Cooper - is a great inspiration to Gen X sages - to burn down Boomer Theology

[@carlcopsey3173]

I love your music and where I believe you’re going with your theology as a Christian. As a whole. It also sounds like you’ve been in the Jeff Durbin crowd a bit! Amillennialism is definitely the biblical view of eschatology. So you’re close! 😜

[@MrWillco007]

In Adam all sinned, in Christ all live. On the cross, the wrath of God was satisfied. Our bridegroom, Jesus the Christ - Yeshua HaMashiach is coming for His bride when the Father says, so where He is we will always be and then we will come back with Him in victory to rule and reign with Him for 1000 years. Blessed are you Lord God, King of the universe, bless you all!

[@timbushong4387]

All "in Adam" (every human except Jesus Christ) are born dead in sins, and unable to please God. All "in Christ," all those who believe, also known as "the elect," have their living and vital union in Christ. Jesus reigns now, having ascended to the throne of David, and will continue to reign until all of His enemies are defeated.

[@mbfrommb3699]

Part 2/3 I know I sounded harsh in part 1 but we need to call a spade a spade. The LORD will unfold the future 1 way, His way. It doesn't matter what we believe or what we think there is only 1 correct way to understand eschatology because there is only 1 way the LORD will unfold the future. This is a fact we can't escape. So people can be mad at me or whatever but this is the truth. All I can do is help clarify the topic and let people come to their conclusions. Every term we have has assumptions attached to it and I think every view fails in some major ways. Postmill to me fails because Jesus describes the world before His return and it's the worst time in history ever. An argument against Dispensationalism is that Dispensationalists take the whole Bible literally. This is incorrect. There are different genres in Scripture however, Bible Prophecy is a genre and a large genre as well. Every time the LORD says "I will" He does. Eschatology is a sub-category of Bible Prophecy. What we know about Bible Prophecy is that GOD always fulfills His Word as it's written. Jesus fulfilled every messianic prophecy literally. He is our hermeneutic. If you believe Jesus was born of a virgin in Bethlehem, rode a donkey into Jerusalem, literally died for our iniquities, and rose again bodily from the dead on the 3rd day "According to the Scriptures" 1 Cor 15:3-4 then we need to follow the same hermeneutic. Where Dispensationalists go wrong is being scatterbrained in their theology. Virtually every timeline I have seen makes very little sense practically. One of the main arguments against "Dispensational premillennialism is that it's New, invented by Darby. Dispensational Premillennialism is NOT a new doctrine. It IS NOT a few hundred years old. Now we can debate whether it's true or not but to think it's new and that it was created by Darby is simply a falsehood. We have numerous early Church Faither Irenaeus (180 AD) and Hippolytus (170-235AD) specifically who wrote extensively and later Ephrem (about 363AD) To understand the context of these authors we need to understand the lineage of disciples. The Apostle John taught Polycarp, Polycarp taught Irenaeus, and Irenaeus taught Hippolytus. Irenaeus (about 180 AD) who wrote his 5 volume works called “Against Heresies” “In 2 Thessalonians, the ‘falling away’ is an apostasy and there will be a literal rebuilt temple. In Matthew, the ‘abomination spoken by Daniel’ is the Antichrist sitting in the temple as if he were Christ. The abomination will start in the middle of Daniel’s 70th week and last for a literal three years and six months. The little horn is the Antichrist. Against Heresies 5.25 Ephrem 306-373 AD in his writings called "The End Times" "Before the time of abomination (which Irenaeus says is in the middle of the 7 years; after 3 years and 6 months). of his desolation having been made legal, he takes the empire, and, just as it is said in the Psalm: “They have been made for the undertaking for the sons of Lot” Psalm 83:8 The Moabites and the Ammonites shall meet him first as their king. Therefore, when he receives the kingdom, he orders the temple of God to be rebuilt for himself, which is in Jerusalem, who coming into it, he shall sit as God and order that he be adored by all nations, since he is carnal, filthy, and mixed with worthless spirit and flesh…Because the very wicked serpent shall direct every worship to himself. Because he shall put forth an edict so that people may be circumcised according to the rite of the old law. The Jews shall congratulate him, because he gave them again the practice of the first covenant; then all people from everywhere shall flock together to him at the city of Jerusalem and the holy city shall be trampled on by the nations for forty-two months just as the holy apostle says in the Apocalypse, which become three and a half years, 1,260 days. Hippolytus (170-235 AD) wrote a 67 section/ chapter writing called "The Antichrist - a Treatise on Christ and Antichrist" "Now we must consider the question at hand, letting the previous introduction suffice. We must find out what the Holy Scriptures teach about: the occasion and time of the coming of Antichrist what tribe he comes from what his name is (from the number 666 in Scripture) how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth his tribulation and persecution against the saints how he glorifies himself as God. What his end shall be the Lord’s sudden appearing revealed from heaven the conflagration of the whole world the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints when they reign together with Christ the punishment of the wicked by fire." Section 5-Prophecy introduction. continued in his writing… "Now Daniel will set forth this subject to us. For he says, “And one week will make a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease.” Daniel 9:27 By one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world, of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elias will take up the half. For they will preach 1,260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations." ...For John says, “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” Revelation 11:3 That is the half of the week that Daniel spoke about. “These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the Lord of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire will proceed out of their mouth, and devour their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy; and have power over waters, to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will.” Revelation 11:4-6 And when they shall have finished their course and their testimony, what does the prophet say? “the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them,” Revelation 11:7 because they will not give glory to Antichrist. For this is meant by the little horn that grows up. He, being now elated in heart, begins to exalt himself, and to glorify himself as God, persecuting the saints and blaspheming Christ, even as Daniel says, “I considered the horns, and, behold, in the horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things; and he opened his mouth to blaspheme God. And that born made war against the saints, and prevailed against them until the beast was slain, and perished, and his body was given to be burned.” Daniel 7:8 These writings were post 70 AD by early disciples of the Apostles. It doesn't mean they are correct but it should be something we study and consider. (Continued in Part 3)

[@timbushong4387]

- And yet, no one believed in an "earthly" people (Jews) and a "heavenly" people (Christians) until Margaret McDonald got her so-called 'vision.'

[@graysonbr]

Great interview but he's postmil 🤨

[@timbushong4387]

You had me at "he's postmil."

[@Michael-kj3tn]

Know what the irony is? Schaefer was a premill dispensationalist.

[@timbushong4387]

Yes - just as Spurgeon, Gill, and a host of other theonomically-minded folks were... Schaeffer's premil was not exactly dispy, tho.

[@krish8799]

@timbushong4387 hello sir, I don't think we have to concede Spurgeon or Gill as dispensationalist. In fact, I think inaccurate to call them such. The Puritan Hope by Ian Murray points out specifically with Spurgeon that he rejected the dispensationalist pessimism, he rejected their hermeneutic, and due to the massive influence of the puritans on Spurgeon, his theology sometimes seems to contain some postmil aspects - all while rejecting much of dispensationalism. He did believe Scripture taught a revival of the Jews (as many puritans taught) - but he wholesale rejected the foundational teachings of dispensationalism - that the Old testament saints are not part of the church. He rejected this as heresy and derided the then emerging dispensationalist framework as ridiculous. “We have even heard it asserted that those who lived before the coming of Christ do not belong to the church of God! We never know what we shall hear next, and perhaps it is a mercy that these absurdities are revealed one at a time, in order that we may be able to endure their stupidity without dying of amazement” (Vol. 15, 8).

[@krish8799]

​​@@timbushong4387also with Gill, his frame work is consistently Covenantal and was also a partial-preterist (def not dispy!). From my reading he does not see the Old Testament saints as separate from the New testament, he did not put forth some "prophetic parenthesis" in which dispensationalists claim the church exists. He saw one covenant of grace with 2 administrations, the old and new. His use of the term "dispensation" was consistent with it's pre-Darby use. Gill and Spurgeon both pastored and highly respected the 1689 2LBC which Keach, Gill's predecessor, who called together the assembly for the 1689 - definitely not a dispensationalist doctrine. Uncomfortable and think it inaccurate to surrender either of these great particular Baptists as associates of dispensationalism when so much evidence demonstrates they were actually contrary to it and held confessions incompatible with it.

[@timbushong4387]

@@krish8799 - No, you're right - I didn't mean to imply that about either Spurgeon or Gill - I was unclear. With you 100%!

[@jeremyct5559]

I don’t agree with the sin arguments and basically calling Christians “untouchable holy saints”. That’s pretty arrogant. The rest I kind of agree.

[@timbushong4387]

What time-stamp? Not sure what you're talking about...

[@Mommybecca9804]

@jeremyct5559 "calling Christians 'untouchable holy saints'"? Where was that? Can you give a time stamp please?