224 Valkyrie - 69/77/90gr Match Kings with RL17

The search for accuracy with 224 Valkyrie continues. In this video I test Alliant Reloder 17 with the 69gr, 77gr, and 90gr Sierra Match King.
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with KZbin content policies.
www.patreon.com/reloading

[@eirikrbrightraven1462]

Good to see you there JRB! I was starting to fear that you blew your face off.

[@shanerhodes925]

Man I was starting to wonder if you where going to make another video or not lol. Thanks Johnny's reloading bench for the great work I love you stuff I am glad to see that you are having good successes with the 4451 it is one of new favorites. Bit keep up the good work and I'll be waiting for the next video

[@308guy8]

I was getting flyers loading 270 win and after some research when u seat the bullet don't seat it all at one time once you get it started half way in the case rotate the it 90 degrees and finish seating the bullet it really helped my flyers a lot another great video johnny

[@nowthisis2stupid]

I seriously doubt it is something on those lines. I have heard nothing but disappointing reviews about .224 Valkyrie.

[@paulflannigan888]

"I'm not quite as depressed as I was... " I know what you mean. I really enjoy your videos, pre-marriage and children, I had a few years of intensive reloading. I like your style man.

[@jimhans1]

Hey JRB, glad you're alive and well!! Issue I've had with one AR15 in 5.56/223Rem in the past was the gun would group GREAT for the first 4 shots, and then on the 5th shot, on the empty mag, it would throw the last shot .25"-1" out from the rest. BUT, if I loaded 6 rounds and shot a 5 shot group, there were zero fliers. The action of the bolt locking open was changing the point of impact. Every group where the bolt locked open had a flier, every one. My New Valk barrel will be arriving next week from Ballistic Advantage, we have 4 coming to the shop. 18" 1:7 twist Stainless Fluted with a rifle gas system. Waiting for starline or Hornady to start making brass. Federals quality control on brass of late has turned me off to their brass for reloading in rifle calibers. Edit: tried my friends Magnetospeed on my 20" heavy barrel 6mm Creedmoor, and man, point of impact shift and accuracy with groups shot back to back was horrible, took a load that would shoot 1/2" for 5 shots at 100yards and opened them to 1.5"-2" and shifted impact right 2" and up 3". Hoping that it's not happening to you with this gun/barrel/magneto combo Edit 2: in my experience with the SMK bullets in my guns, whether bolt action or semi, they need to be within .020"-.080" of touching the lands to shoot like we want them too. Edit 3: get some Redding dies, or at least a Redding competition seater. Let's get bullets seated without boogering them up.

[@dakotaman4861]

Great points. Common issues with ARs. I suggest an Acu-wedge to solidify your receiver wobble. ARs all have that and it produces fliers. Your last shot causes serious wobble with that bolt locking back against the spring. You've got to test bullet seating in your rifle. There is no one size fits all. My SMK averaged .020" but they are all over the map, depending on the rifle. 3-6 pound triggers cause group issues too. I prefer to establish a crisp 1 pound trigger pull before wasting ammo on group testing. The Geissele SSA is a great invention.

[@paulstout2980]

Just completed a Valkyrie build with a Wilson combat 6.5 barrel. My COL for a 69 Sierra HPBT is 2.221 10 thousands off the lands with Varget the group was 0.555. With a 75 grain Hornady AMAX col 2.279 with a 0.418 5 shot group. This is a 20" fluted barrel at the range today everything from 55 to 88 grains were all under moa. Surprised me with the 6.5 twist with light bullets.

[@tobyn7649]

Johnny, I found sub-moa accuracy with my 224V. I loaded the 88ELD to 2.30 OAL and put 26.8 grains of RL17 behind it....The accuracy came in when I moved the OAL up from 2.26. I am shooting a 20" 1:6.5 twist barrel. I shot some very consistent groups with RL-17 but they were not tight. Once I moved the OAL to max magazine length I started getting tight groups. Good luck, keep the videos coming.

[@dakotaman4861]

You are dead right! OAL is the most impacting variable in precision shooting and must be tested just like charge weight. Johny's 18" 1:7 twist barrel won't stabilize an 88g or 90g bullet so it might be a bit of an exercise in futility to test lots of them. We don't know yet but if the chamber is perfectly concentric, precision will not be maintained past about 250 yards because bullets transition from rotating on the center of the bore to their center of mass. Concentricity issues create bullet damage and that produces wobble at long range.

[@rider547]

Hang in there! New cartridge, new load data, new setup, it will take time but you’ll get there! Thanks for another informative video. I always look forward to the next one!

[@dakotaman4861]

Great videos, it's so good to see honest actual experiences with the Valkyrie. However, your test procedure is too random to find the optimum load for a specific rifle. I suggest the following procedure to find the most accurate load possible for your specific rifle. I suggest the following procedure to find the optimum load for any rifle/bullet/powder combination. ARs are particularly fussy so it really makes a difference. You seem like a real enthusiast and a scientific guy so I'll risk boring you with the following: Preparation Note: .AR precision is exceptionally dependent on case/bullet consistency 1. Anneal cases at least every three uses for consistent neck tension 2. Trim cases to exact same length so weight is consistant 3. Uniform primer holes inside case 4. Turn necks to .015”. Some new cases need it and firing changes brass necks 5. Champher necks 6. Weigh/sort bullets. Use same weight within each group 7. Weigh/sort cases (Use same case weight within group (most critical)) 8. Install an Accu-wedge to reduce receiver wobble (I don’t shoot without one) 9. Get the optics well mounted and establish a consistent shooting system components before you begin because you should start the following procedure over with every change you make. 10. Use 5 shots to warm and foul the barrel before shooting test strings. Heat matters and so does barrel condition. I clean with carbon cleaner every 50-100 shots and remove copper every 300-500 shots. Don't expect good groups from a dirty barrel or a cold barrel. Reloading Test Procedure for optimum load for your specific rifle 1. Begin with OAL .020 off lands (arbitrary but the most common for precision of most heavy VLDs). 2. Step test using groups with .4g charge variance starting with max charge and working down (I use 5 different loads for this to find accuracy nodes) Shoot from lowest charge to highest charge watching for pressure signs. 3. Step test .1 g charge variance either side of accuracy node chosen (I use the original best load plus 2 loads up and down from it). 4. Select best group and vary seating depth (on the lands and .010” increments back to .050” off lands (you don’t need to re-test the .020” offset). Start with shortest OAL and work up. The resulting load should be optimum for your rifle for each powder/bullet combo. For varmint accuracy and max velocity, consider testing 50g & 55g Hornady VMax or Nosler BT Varmint as well as the long range VLD bullets. The high velocity of the little bullets makes shooting running coyotes highly predictable and you are unlikely to get better 100-400 yard accuracy. A 1:7 twist can be too slow for a 90g bullet so I’d suggest concentration on 80g and below. You can still achieve exceptional accuracy with small bullets but you sacrifice a bit on velocity with them over a 1:14 twist. I prefer 24” barrel for the Valkyrie because velocity is the reason for the cartridge. I shoot at 3450 fps with my .223 in a 24” barrel using 50g bullets/Benchmark or H335. I will soon be testing the Valkyrie but expect it to step out noticeably. The bullets you are testing are all great long range bullets. It’s a matter of finding the optimum load for each.

[@ericm0612]

thank you for bringing some sanity and sense to this cluster F

[@nilescoyote4829]

It's Christmas! Been really looking forward to more video! As an update, my testing on AR-COMP is a no go in my 18" +1" rifle gas. It just isn't developing the gas pressure to run the bolt carrier group and it's very dirty in my rifle with 75, 80 and 90 grain bullets. That said, reloder 15 is showing some very promising results with the 80 grain Amax. I'm getting three to four shots landing inside three quarters of an inch with one flyer opening up the overall group size. I started at 25 grains and worked up to 26.2 and it appeared that anything above 25.6 was too much both on target and case head pressure signs. Velocity at 25.2 was 2690

[@yissnakklives8866]

Been waiting for this!!

[@marclarose4512]

I’ve been waiting for a video from you for a while glad to see you’re back!

[@joelclark2130]

Longer Barrel quicker twist will help, 6 and 1/2 twist is what they recommend

[@ericm0612]

just longer barrel

[@Wellsey302]

He’s back!

[@hardtarget2359]

Johnny would you consider a 22 Grendel series of vids? All you would need is a barrel. I think your style of vids would be very interesting and beneficial to the round vs 224 Valkerie!

[@CascadingDream]

I'm not impressed at all. I sure do appreciate you putting up these videos because it helped me realize this cartridge is not ready. I'm sure at some point the cartridge will get worked out but I think I'd rather spend my energy on a 6mm Grendel.

[@killerfungis]

224 Grendel, check it out 90gr smk 2950 light load

[@dakotaman4861]

These tests don't identify the most precise load for this cartridge in this rifle. As Johnny says, he is just getting started. The Valkyrie is one of many great cartridges but is only what you make it, like any other cartridge. See my suggested test procedure for optimizing loads in an AR. If it doesn't shoot in the .2 MOA or better range with that procedure, the barrel will be the likely cause. With a premium barrel and perfect chamber/bore alignment, that cartridge will shoot lights out.

[@johnnysaechao6218]

I think I will hold off on a .224 Valkyrie build, I haven’t seen any videos where handloads were getting under MOA groups consistently. My Grendel will do under MOA consistently and hit out to 1000yds regularly. Thanks for the video and being honest.

[@dontask8979]

You read the instructions and grunt at them just like I do after reading them a million times

[@4x4le]

Man, i used to really want a 224 valkerie. I really havent seen anything that makes me want one other than videos from guys that were given rifles and ammo to test with.

[@PC-vq5ud]

Saw a Shot Show video about this cartridge from a Savage rep. He suggested at least a 22 to 24 inch barrel. The 220 Russian is a world class accuracy cartridge. It is based on the 7.62x39. Was made into the 5.45x39. I'm thinking a .224x39.

[@hardtarget2359]

Hey Johnny, whats your favorite caliber to shoot groups with? I enjoy your 223/224 vids along with the 6.5 Grendel. The 6.5 fascinates me for such a small rifle round it's amazing the capabilities that it has.

[@JustDeeOutdoors]

Appreciate the very informative video. My 224 dies are on the way, as well as the 90 grn SMK bullets....trying to decide powders to start with....keep up the good work

[@THutch556]

I don’t know JRB, definitely haven’t seen anything so far regarding this cartridge to be overly impressed with. Heck you flirted with 2800 FPS with the 77SMK in the MK262 series. For that cartridge to not shoot any of the SMK’s well is not good at all (I could see maybe the Hornady vid or one of the smk bullets) but to not shoot any of the SMK’s overly well is discouraging, as that bullet shoots in most anything, at least one of the SMK’s should shoot. I know you can shoot, I know you can make quality match ammo, I know WOA can make a heck of a barrel and I know for a fact Sierra match King’s shoot! I know there are a million things to keep trying to improve accuracy, but so far this cartridge design from what I’ve seen is not lending itself to accuracy. Don’t think it’s the twist rate as 1/7 should shoot the SMK’s excellent. I believe MAC said when they were testing that Percision JP rifle with this cartridge the best they were seeing was around 1 inch using 90 grain gold medal match, now I’m sure us hand loaders can do better, and I’m far from giving up on this cartridge, Hopefully us hand loaders can figure it out, as the long range high Balistic coefficient of this cartridge is highly appealing, but need the accuracy with it. Your vids are great and thanks for sharing. Thumbs up for sure.

[@224valkyrieforum7]

We are of the opinion the barrel manufacturers are using the wrong twist rate of 1:7 I think once manufacturers start to change to 1:6.5 things should improve. We are waiting on a 6.5 twist barrel but it's still a few months out.

[@THutch556]

224 Valkyrie Forum Yes I also think 1:6.5 should help with the heavier bullets and with the future release of heavier bullets. But not sold that it’s a twist rate issue as there is no reason the current 1:7 twist rate is not shooting lights out with the lighter bullets for caliber like the 69 and 77 SMK’s. Or even the Hornady 80, etc. jury is still out on this cartridge.

[@dapro2848]

Agree, however as I said in another vid looks like a cartridge that did not need to be made. We will see.

[@davidpeterson6147]

224 Valkyrie Forum, there is another KZbinr who tested a prototype 1:6 twist over a year ago from a major manufacturer. The barrels and production capability are out there but the industry seems to have an over supply of 1:7 blanks that they are merely chambering in 224 Valkyrie instead of 223 Wylde, 5.56 NATO or 223 Remington. kzbin.info/www/bejne/iYCQfJ1-js2EsNk

[@yootoober49]

224 Valkyrie Forum also- you forgot that 224 valkyrie is just lame anyway

[@sweet65mustang]

Did anyone else notice that the 77smk charge weight corresponded with the velocity? 27.6 = 2759, 28.1 = 2804, 28.6= 2859. I've never seen that before.

[@452Rob]

I think the AR15 rifles are at their best chambered in 5.56 or 223 Wylde. They do exactly what they were designed to do as well as make a good rifle for deer, hogs and small game with the right loads. If you have to go with 20"-24" barrels to make some of these loads shoot, it defeats the purpose of a handy hunting rifle. Most of the cartridges used to try and gain more power such as 300AAC, 265 Grendel, and this Valkery round are seriously weak sisters to rounds that are chambered in compact bolt and lever action rifles. Even the 450 Socom is a toy compared to real loads in a Marlin Guide Gun 45-70. The 30-30 walks all over the 300AAC. A 260 Remington in a 16" Remington Model Seven is way more gun than the Grendel. With all of the AR calibers, it takes light for caliber bullets to get anywhere. For anyone who thinks the Grendell is all that, compare heavy bullet loads from the 260 Remington, 6.5X55, or 6.5 Creedmore in a compact bolt gun to the same bullets in the Grendel. It's sorta like saying the 357 Sig is the equal of the 357 Magnum. Bump the bullet weight up from 124/125 grain to 158/180 and the Sig can't do it. Load those bullet wights in a 357 Magnum and shoot them in even a 4" revolver like a GP100 or 686 and the Sig is simply no match. The Sig doesn't have the case capacity to get the job done. These videos just confirm to me that the AR is a medium range fighting and small to medium game hunting rifle. If I need more I have a multitude of handier rifles that offer the power people are going crazy trying to find in an AR.

[@452Rob]

I will say I really want a 450 Bushmaster. It's the only AR caliber besides the 5.56/223 Wylde that interests me. Big bore .45, straight wall case goodness. It's not a 45-70, but it's not claiming to be either...like the Socom.

[@jimhans1]

452Rob while I agree that the 6.5G does not compare to ANY of the other 6.5mm rounds (260Rem, 6.5CM, 6.5x55), I also cannot fit any of them into an AR15! But I can use the 6.5G in an AR15, and have a fully functional rifle capable of aimed hits out to 1000+ yards, for a LOT cheaper/lighter than I can with any of the other rounds. It makes it a much more well rounded choice for a "one-and-done" type of rifle. But I do still use a 260Rem in my PRS competition bolt gun for that division. I use the 6.5G for Open-GasGun class though.

[@WestDesertShooter]

Interesting stuff JRB I got word yesterday I will have mine this summer. Stoked to give it a go, I’ve started buying ammo as well dude you should show how small these rounds are I was surprised how tiny they looked

[@AnthonysOutdoors]

Maybe I'm a pessimist but I think this cartridge is quickly becoming "a flash in the pan." Especially in a gas gun. Might be a good PRS trainer cartridge in a 24 inch bolt gun. But I feel it will never gain enough traction in gas guns with reasonable barrel lengths. 18 inches is perfect for the application and MK262 comparison and this cartridge just seems to be a failure.

[@dakotaman4861]

Don't give up on it yet. He just started and case variance, receiver wobble and barrel are all considerations in precision shooting. More testing is necessary with consistent external variables before conclusions can be drawn.

[@babygirlbeltz1]

John, thanks for the videos. I am just getting into reloading and built a 6.5 Grendel AR. I have heard about resizing 7.62x39 cases into 6.5 Grendel and then fire-forming the cases. Have you ever done this? Is it worth it? What are your thoughts? Thanks.

[@Bifistik]

I use xbr8208 for my mk262 load, I would love to see some xbr8208 in this cartridge with 77gr smk. I have a build waiting to happen and I think I want to try 224 Valkyrie.

[@theriddleballcoach]

Somebody tell me why this cartridge had so much hype. Just like 22 Nosler it's going to fail. Why would I go 90gr 224 dia bullet at 2700 fps when I can push a 107gr 264 dia at the same fps. With WAY more accuracy. Long live 6.5 Grendel the AR-15 platform champion.

[@nc_classics_9610]

Jason Luft Grendel > Valkyrie

[@ericm0612]

because he's shooting with an 18" barrel not the 24" that it's designed for!

[@bruceandrews8835]

Well for 1 thing the 6.5 Grendel drops out of supersonic speed way earlier than the 224 Valkyrie does. For another with good equipment and a skilled shooter, the 224 Valkyrie will maintain less than 1 MOA past 1000 yds.

[@hclchgm]

For my money I would go with a long throated bolt rifle chambered in either .22PPC, or a ..223 Rem AI, as you are not gaining anything really compared to those two proven chamberings. The accuracy is sub par in my opinion but may be due to many things other than the case design. Great exhaustive stab at seeing what works in an AR platform, but if comparing it with something that the cartridge was designed for (long range accuracy in a standard bench rest rifle) then it might illuminate a few benefits. As it looks, not impressed with the cartridge. The bullets in a better rifle, with match grade bench rest rifle might help tell where the accuracy problem lies. Shooting as you did for each group, the cases warmed up sitting in the chamber, that causes problems. Inadequate neck tension may also cause some problems with you first shot in each group.

[@scooter041031]

What are you going to do about the new KZbin policies? Just heard about them from the gun collective hope you don't get shut down.

[@BAYRAKTAR_MAN]

Johnny please give us 22 Hellcat, it’s every coyote hunters dream come true

[@tonydowd8566]

I'm relatively new to this whole ballistics thing, but confused about having a free floated barrel with a chronograph hanging on it? It seems a little counterintuitive to me

[@memilanuk]

I'm really curious... maybe this has been covered earlier / elsewhere... but how the heck are you able to shoot with the MagnetoSpeed strapped to the can, without it melting the strap? Mine gets blistering hot in fairly short order. I realize the videos are sort of 'time lapse' with a lot of idle time between shots and/or strings cut out... how long are you actually going between shots/strings?

[@davidunderwood3605]

I was wondering about the off center primer strike on the 224 brass. Is it the fit of the base to bolt head, off center firing pin hole or bolt wear, chamber alignment of barrel fit to upper receiver. I have seen this caused by worn bolts, worn carrier, barrel alignment in upper receiver, off center firing pin hole,(which is not a big deal) and just a bad bolt. This can affect groups if it is one of the mentioned above other than firing pin hole placement. Of couse you know this but my curiosity gets the best of me. As always a good video. P.S. have you thought about turning the necks of you brass as this can have extreme positive effects on groups. Also have you purchased the the new western powders load data book? I got my copy three weeks ago and it is very nice in many areas.

[@steveo6453]

Love your channel man... Almost can not wait for the next video! Im not knocking the platform but I'll bet this cartridge kicks butt in a bolt gun. not a bad group for crushed bullets though.

[@dakotaman4861]

Steve, you might be surprised that an AR can keep pace with a bolt rifle. As a matter of fact, my AR often draws a crowd of watchers as I shoot house fly targets right between the shoulder blades at 100 yards just for fun. It's all in the barrel and premium barrels aren't cheap. Nothing against bolt rifles but don't underestimate the potential of the AR with the same premium components as a typical bench rifle.

[@benjaminnevins5211]

Thanks man! I'm still on the fence about what I want to build this spikes snowflake lower into. I got a ton of RL17 I am not using from 6.5 CM loads.

[@williamabrahams1468]

Hey Johnny, I have an idea you can try with equipment you already have. Have you considered trying loading up some 223 with 90 grain bullets. They will be too long to fit in the mag, but you could single load them. Try them in your 223 WOA barrel which we know can shoot well. This might give us an idea if the 1:7 twist is enough for the 90 grainers. If they shoot well then we know they have potential in your 1:7 224 and maybe you just need to try a different barrel or keep testing different loads. If they don't, then you have 2 1:7 twist barrels that did not get good results and perhaps that is enough evidence that the twist rate is not suitable for 90 grainers.

[@bamangell]

I think it’s the length of your barrel as well. Most tests for this cartridge has been measured with a 24 inch length barrel.

[@ashleypalmer7983]

From the way the gun is shooting, my guess is something is hitting the barrel when it is fired. How much clearance do you have between the handguard and your gas block? How does it compare to the 223 with the WOA barrel?

[@nc_classics_9610]

.224 valkyrie might be just be a fast 1 MOA average caliber. And if you can can get heavy, hi BC boolits up to 3000 fps, maybe we should be content with 0.8-1.0 MOA. Thats good enough to ring steel at 1000 yards. I appreciate your scientific approach.

[@larrylinneman5915]

nc_classics _ I agree all I'm looking for is moa maybe a little smaller in my gas gun . If I wanted smaller groups I'd have went with a bolt gun mine is just to ring steel

[@dakotaman4861]

I love ya Johnny but the approach is not yet scientific. Your progress to date has provided meaningful data. You just have more work to do. On the science front: 1. You changed components of the shooting system without repeating load testing steps. It will be important to get it locked down based on your results to date. You are getting fliers, most likely from the instability of your receiver wobble. All ARs have this by design for battle field parts interchangability. I suggest you try an Acu-Wedge to get that under control before further testing. 2. You took meaningful .5g propellant jumps in groups but still need to refine by testing the gaps when .1g of charge can destroy a group size. 3. Once load test establishes a harmonic charge weight, you still need to test the biggest variable with regard to precision: the overall length variance. One MOA groups are good for this level of testing. However more is required to determine the optimum load for this rifle/cartridge combo. It has nothing to do with the cartridge itself. 4. Science tells us the 90g bullets won't stabilize well in a 7 twist so you are pretty well done before starting on that score. 5. Eliminating all variables from the cases fired in a group has not been done and is likely affecting your precision significantly. This makes more difference in AR precision than anything else you can do to ammo. 6. You didn't mention weighing the bullets and that will introduce a significant variation from shot to shot as well. You mentioned the seating mark. I wouldn't worry about that too much as long as they are light and consistent. Impact is likely slight. Scientific principles include elimination of external variables. You are testing precision of this cartridge in this rifle with all kinds of uncontrolled variables so I'd suggest getting them under control for your next steps. I'd also eliminate the magnum primers and select the faster burning powders that will burn completely in the short barrel you have. Keep up the good work Johnny and I hope you aren't insulted by the thoughts expressed here. You get better with practice and honestly showing your results helps others to assist you in your quest for precision. Please remember that people are quick to judge a cartridge as a winner or a loser but a myriad of variables affect the precision of any cartridge. Science will help in your pursuit and I believe you are headed the right direction. You just need a few course corrections in methodology and I'll bet you will be surprised with the outcome. Best wishes.

[@boblane5169]

I really enjoy your videos but so far I am totally unimpressed with the 224 Valkyrie. I remember you getting almost if not better result when you did the MK262 series.

[@tonydowd8566]

If the 224 Valkyrie can't shoot the heavier bullets, 90 grain, I'll save my money and just go with 1/7 twist 5.56 20" bull barrel, or even fluted heavy barrel. The whole purpose of the 224 Valkyrie I thought, was to shoot a heavier rnd supersonic, accurately out to 1300 yard's.

[@JohnnysReloadingBench]

You need to watch the follow-up videos. The first barrel I had was bad. kzbin.info/www/bejne/aanEnqytg51kpZY

[@DMHal01]

There are a couple of issues with your test setup. To remove as many variables that could inadvertently affect your accuracy, you need to remove the suppressor and the magnetospeed from the end of that barrel then test loads for accuracy. I’ve run into problems with the magnetospeed before. I use it specifically for velocity and not accuracy testing. I have an 18” Bison Armory 224 Valkyrie that groups better than that.

[@dakotaman4861]

Very good points D Hal. I would not use the Magneto speed for group testing unless I intended to shoot all shots with it. It destroys the harmonics of the naked barrel. Same with the can but if you intend to shoot with the can all the time, then you might as well devleop your best load for it.

[@chipherrick5121]

Sorry to booboo on the 224V, again, but still not impressed after all the hype.

[@rifleshooterchannel208]

Chip Herrick Yeah, not seeing what this does much over .223 Rem.

[@siestatime4638]

Yeah, at 100 yards I'm not (yet) impressed; there may be a difference at 800 yards... maybe.

[@chipherrick5121]

At least for the 77gr and lighter, the 223/556 seems to be a better option, STD bolt and common brass are a win for the 223/556 with these pills IMO.

[@rifleshooterchannel208]

Chip Herrick Barnes makes an 85gr Match bullet that can be loaded to standard .223 mag length. I think it’s nearly half the price of the 77gr SMK too.

[@jimhans1]

Rifle Shooter Channel yeah, but every Barnes Bullet I've tried over the last 20yrs to present hasn't shot for shit in accuracy or speed. Can never drive them as fast as a comparable weight traditional bullet, and never as accurate.

[@stuartbrown9307]

Why not have a “control” round to be shot with each test series? A control would give indications of equipment or deviations in rifle accuracy.

[@nodakian2fo387]

I realize it’s been a minute for Valkyrie videos but have you thought of trying reloder 16 for 77s and up? I’ve experienced better performance than 17.

[@ericm0612]

youtube anneal brass. you won't have split cases

[@FullSendPrecision]

Agree that 4451 isn't the BEST for 6.5cm. Not a speedy powder, despite being right next to H4350 on the burn charts.

[@bamangell]

Johnny, could you do a comparison of the 224 Valkyrie bullets using the Federal factory Ammo using 77 grain vs 90 grain. I have shot the 77 grain factory Ammo and I am getting 1 inch groups at 200 yards.

[@dakotaman4861]

You do realize that the way these would shoot in Johhny's rifle has no correlation to how they would shoot in your rifle... right? The harmonics of each rifle is different and the accuracy of a specific load in any rifle is unpredictable.

[@BoltActionReloading]

I wonder the quality of the brass is causing you any trouble. Is there any thickness differences in the neck wall? Wish there was more brass to try.

[@dakotaman4861]

Brass makes all the difference in the world in these small cartridges. Necks must be turned, flash holes uniformed, cases trimmed to exact length and cases weighed after sizing. An Acu-wedge also may cut groups sizes in half by reducing receiver wobble. That's probably where Johnny's fliers are coming from.

[@dakotaman4861]

AR size cartridges are all sensitive to case dimension consistency for optimum group sizes. Must prep the brass and weigh the bullets or all is lost.

[@dontask8979]

Starting to wonder about the 62gr TTSX in a .224 V Nice long bullet, and the faster I pushed it, the better. Iv loaded to the Barnes 5.56 max of 27.2 gr RL15 and thats a nice crunchy load! Being its a copper bullet, if I remember right, they are close to 77gr is size.

[@dakotaman4861]

That would be an excellent deer bullet for sure. I've not found the TTSX bullets to be quite as accurate as ELDs, SMKs or Bergers for long range but they are deadly hunting bullets with very good accuracy. Of course I've always been happy with Nosler 55g partitions in a .223 for deer.

[@benjaminbrown1179]

Talk about withdrawls!!!... I assumed that the You Tube police had thrown you to the wolves..... Looking better with the valk!!

[@behindenemylines7623]

I love your videos and I am a big fan! I don't know if this round is hyped or if your barrel twist and length are not squeezing out the potential of the rounds??? But .224 Valkyrie is not very impressive to say the least? If this is what is expected from this cartridge I will stick to 5.56 and 6.5 Grendel!

[@Leiliel666]

I've been eyeballing that RE 17 for awhile now, and if it is true that the 224V has only marginally more H2O capacity over a 5.56, Than it should be a suitable candidate for an mk262 clone yes?

[@Leiliel666]

Tested today. It works well decent velocity, but at 26.5 gr, the SD is all over the place.

[@xnorcal831x]

Try rotating the rounds when seating some say it helps get a better concentricity to the brass. Idk if it does but that would be a good easy video to put to rest a old wise tail

[@jonathanm1854]

Im wanting to build a 224V, but i have yet to see anyone really get good groups with it. Is it the 1:8 twist barrels? Looking to get something a little cheaper to load for than my 6.5CM, but at this rate, I might just build a heavy barrel 223 AR and leave 224V alone.

[@dakotaman4861]

I'm looking forward to extensive testing of the .224V. I see no reason why it can't be as accurate as almost any other cartridge. You have to keep in mind that these aren't bench rest rifles being tested here. An upper for these goes for under $500. That's almost the cost of a Krieger barrel which will shoot really well using the .224V. You are also looking at guys expecting the cartridge to do it all for them. There are many variables in building a precision rifle and this one doesn't have many of them. I'll be testing a complete $450 upper with a 24" barrel, muzzle brake (for spotting my own long range shots), a 6-24x Vortex Viper PST and a Geissele SSA trigger with Accu-wedge. If it doesn't shoot under .5 MOA, I'll replace the barrel with a good one. If I do that, I will expect .2 MOA or better.

[@224valkyrieforum7]

Groups so far are not all that impressive. What's the group size with 90gr fusion factory ammunition? Thanks for all the testing you are doing this early in the game!

[@brett8090]

I'm not saying that it is your fault, but I am generally disappointed. Can we move on to the AR10 build now?

[@glenbutler7901]

Hmm, I know you can load and you can shoot, so maybe this cartridge has something inherently wrong with it for accuracy. Keep up the work J.

[@dakotaman4861]

You just started and got some meaningful data to start the process. Keep up the good work and I'll bet you find a load to shoot under .5 MOA.

[@AgileK9TopDog]

I hate to seem naive, but how is it that the 90gr will work at full mag length (2.262) but you have to seat the lighter bullets shorter so they won't hour the lands?

[@dakotaman4861]

Bullet contour allows long skinny bullets like the 90g to slip way up into the bore before their .224" diameter makes contact with the lands. This allows them to be seated way longer than light bullets but sometimes they are too long to fit in the magazine.

[@strany4]

My thoughts are your barrel twist needs to be 6.5 or faster to properly stabilize the 90g bullet. Your velocities aren't great enough for a 7 twist to stabilize the 90g bullet. I have shot a 220 thunderbolt, a 6mm hagar case necked down to a 22, and the velocities are 3000 fps or faster and a kreiger 7.7 worked fine. I'm not really impressed by this cartridge compared to 6mm offerings out there.

[@jlkingen]

try the speer 70 grain soft point, it's cheap for the weight

[@robhill8197]

Man, so far I've watched your Beginner, 6.5 Series and I'm working my way through this one and the Grendal series. I know you got this barrel for free, but come on man, unless something drastic happens and soon, that barrel seems like garbage. I'd be interested to see you swap it out for a Faxon and I'd be willing to bet you'd have much better results.

[@kalebdettwiler6984]

What are you using to trim your cases?

[@number40Fan]

He has an RCBS Trim-Pro bench mount trimmer.

[@stephenfowler4115]

Have you considered trimming the points to remove the irregularities.

[@jmkhenka]

The point on bullets are irrelevant. In tests the importain part is the end of the bullet - boat tail or flat base. Flat base can perform best at short ranges, but at 300+ meters the boat tails have an advantage.

[@stephenfowler4115]

@@jmkhenka the tail of a bullet has more effect at transonic speeds but when your talking about fractions of a minute of angle the point of the bullet is definitely not irrelevant. As groups get tighter and ranges get longer small differences become more critical.

[@DL33TT]

Maybe something wrong with your scope? Are you getting any parallax error? Also I'd love to see. 3 gn increments.

[@dakotaman4861]

Vortex PSTs are great at handling parallax (image of where the cross hairs appear on the target as you move your head around behind the scope). Although as with any scope, your cheek weld could affect parallax to some extent.

[@posjoey]

Need a 1:6.5 twist, and maybe longer barrel.

[@daviddale3624]

I don't know the significance but....I had to watch a "poo-pourri" commercial in the middle of you shooting the 69s. The groups weren't that bad.

[@WestDesertShooter]

David Dale hahaha yeah they advertised on my channel recently as well. They are helping pay the gun channels so I’m cool with it

[@benjaminnevins5211]

That is so frustrating that they say our channels aren't "advertiser friendly"

[@michaellavazza960]

ditch those cci450 and try some different primers.....

[@jimhans1]

Michael Lavazza I second that!! Get some standard Federal Gold Medal Match Small Rifle primers, NOT the Gold Medal AR ones, just regular Match ones!

[@back30Precision]

I agree, even cci400. Ditch the magnum primer.

[@dakotaman4861]

Just be consistent within the group you are testing. Primers do make a bit of a difference but not more than .1 MOA. I use the CCI 200 and BR4 and can shoot in the .1 to .2 MOA range just fine. I wouldn't use the CCI 450s myself but that's just me. Why use a magnum primer unless you are using ball powder in this cartridge? Little advantage if not perhaps a little risk.

[@TexanUSMC8089]

maybe this caliber just doesn't like 18 inch barrel, or you haven't found the right powder for this length barrel.

[@dakotaman4861]

It isn't the caliber... any 18" barrel will likely depend on a faster burn rate to achieve maximum precision. I'd like to see Johnny shoot it in low light. I'll bet there is a fire flash the size of a basketball on most of these loads with lots of powder burning after exit from the muzzle.

[@kickinitoutdoors5782]

I have found that finding accuracy before velocity, just my feeling is it seems you are chasing velocity way to early in your process.

[@knightmare699]

Probably doesn't help accuracy when you throw a magneto chrono on the barrel either.

[@dakotaman4861]

Using the highest velocity accuracy node actually helps in long range shooting by reducing vertical dispersion and other environmental effects at 1000 yards and by extending the maximum super-sonic range. It also helps in coyote hunting by reducing lead and drop for making running shots more predictable. I also recommend a 24" or longer barrel to achieve higher velocity for long range shooting. Not needed of course for home defense, 100 yard plinking or noise making. The 7 twist barrel is what set the Valkyrie on its way... still too slow for 90g bullets but shooters will eventually discover that in spite of the hype.

[@dakotaman4861]

ditto

[@ewetho]

'bout time! LOL...JK... Poking the bear... Good times. I know you check your scales..but I have noticed mine seem to drift and was thinking you might try a balance beam scale.... Something seems, is still off...

[@Liemciemdk89]

trying annealing maybe brass quality resize 6.8. Brass or chamber spec accuracy

[@dakotaman4861]

I prefer to anneal after every shot for consistent neck pressure but sometimes get by with every three shots. It makes a difference for sure. I'll bet people would be reacting differently to the .224V if they saw all five shots going through the same hole and that might just be possible.

[@richardtibbetts5020]

Interesting..

[@stevoeight]

I agree with t hutch. Nothing remotely close to impressive when you compare it to a simple crane spec mk12 barreled ar and mk262.

[@danielmaples9494]

Cfe223!

[@dakotaman4861]

That would be one of the first I would try in the 18" barrel. Others I would queue up would be H4895, RL15 and Varget, maybe even 4064. These won't give Johnny quite the velocity of the slower burning powders he's trying but they are likely to be close and provide very consistent shot-to-shot precision. I haven't tried to optimize an 18" barrel for 77g to 80g bullets but you need to get the powder burned before the bullet is gone. I would consider CFE123 over the others because it produces higher velocity by 100-200 fps over the others while being almost as accurate.

[@garyjohns4711]

no valkyrie for me !

[@drhhodge8243]

I wouldn't touch this caliber

[@johnsenuta1038]

You will not get max velocities out of an 18" bartel. You need at least a 20/22/24" barrel. Also the 90gn SMK requires a 1-6.5 twist rate. Not a 1-7 twist. Your SD suck because you should be using a FL Bushing Sizer die.

[@RHall1]

I wonder if your brass is just garbage. I wouldn’t write of the 224V before trying some other brass.

[@dakotaman4861]

Lots of opportunity for scientific load development and improved accuracy. Once conditioned, brass is brass. I have had excellent results from Starline brass as well as most others (unless primer pockets stretch, as Johhny has experienced). You just have to prep them right and weigh them for uniformity. Its not the brass manufacturer's problem if you don't prep for precision reloading. 1 MOA is not bad and when you are pursuing higher levels of precision, it involves much more exhaustive case prep and platform prep.

[@fathertimencUSA]

Go with a longer barrel and see what that does.

[@jimhans1]

fathertimenc longer barrel won't improve accuracy, it would only give higher velocity possibly, depending on powder used or bullet weight.

[@chrismartinez8393]

Needs a 1-6.5 twist 24in barrel

[@jimhans1]

Chris Martinez that would only possibly benefit the 90gr SMK, possibly. Longer barrel alone could also possibly do that just from the velocity alone. I spoke to one of Sierra bullets ballisticians, John, last week about that very thing as they recommend a 1:6.5 twist for the 90gr bullets in their data and their parts lists/boxes. He said that as long as you could drive the 90gr bullets to 2600+fps, that a 1:7 twist will work just fine. But below that speed, the bullet isn't spinning fast enough to properly stabilize.

[@fathertimencUSA]

Yea maybe the new 6.5 twist will do better if not would save a lot of people money on buying one of them.

[@chrismartinez8393]

jimhans1 I'll see soon I have a Bartlien in 1-6.5 twist with a 24in barrel coming

[@riflemanjim]

I think you need to weigh the brass

[@nc_classics_9610]

James Okello It would be interesting to see what kind of result better brass will yield

[@riflemanjim]

nc_classics _ yeah it would hopefully get rid of those wild flyers

[@dakotaman4861]

Absolutely James! These small cartridges are exceptionally sensitive to case prep and overall length. I typically take 1 MOA AR groups like this down to .1 or .2 MOA or better by developing the optimum charge/seating depth and then trimming to same length, turning necks, uniforming the flash hole, weighing cases and bullets and shooting exactly the same case weight/bullet weight in each shot within a group. The flier most likely comes from the receiver wobble in its fit with the lower. An Accu-wedge typically cuts group size in half by eliminating these fliers. The tests shown here are informative as raw starter information but have no correlation with the highest capabilities of this rifle or this cartridge. Core accuracy is more dependent on the quality of the barrel than anything but who knows about this barrel. I'd like to see how far this barrel will go though and I hope Johhny will continue his quest for knowledge.

[@FullSendPrecision]

Man... Gas guns. Who needs'em!

[@raivkka4313]

I don't know why I watch these as I have NO interest in this caliber. I do like his video presentation though. 8)

[@TheIrishAmish]

1. I'd love to hang out and listen, but you fill 30 minutes of video with 5 minutes of actual content. 2. Once and for all, book listings of COAL don't mean SQUAT. NO ONE SHOULD LOAD A LIVE CARTRIDGE UNTIL THE CHECK OAL FOR EACH BULLET.