J. Krishnamurti - Brockwood Park 1976 - The Transformation of Man - 4 - In aloneness you can be...

[@janiceshayne8193]

After watching the entire series a few times, I understand that having Dr. Shainberg, who isn't always on the same page as JK and Dr. Bohm, shows how difficult it is for some of us to understand these concepts, but also by the end, how far he does come. In life, he had been studying JK's work since he was a teenager. -- Some of us are ready, and some are passionate, but not ready. In these conversations, he is so eager to please, and he wants to get it so much. I have learned to see him as a sweet, guy. I have much compassion for him. They are ALL gone now. No point tearing any of them down. ;-) -- Just an appreciation that they shared these conversations with us.

[@CarolPilkington]

Well said Janice.

[@diegoosorio3237]

Janice Shayne , very nice that you writed. Thanks.

[@ivangohome]

Shaneberg is a demagogue who got what he wanted out of his "friendship" with JK, wrote a book and retired. he pretends to understand "togetherness" and says right, right, right.. only to bring up the same question again in the next lecture. only a hypocrite or a demagogue does that, not a true scientist.

[@jackpopo6039]

To me he provides as much insight as the others if not more.

[@MortociFilm]

So happy to read this comment

[@hintergedankee]

Dr bohm is one inquisitive fellow. He thinks really well and explains it in a very humble way.

[@kyul9357]

I was introduced to Kristhna Murti at the age of 29. For 17 years whenever I tried to listen to his lectures, it just went over my head. This lecture this video with the circle teacher student format, finally awakened me. Wow just wow.

[@emiliocortes6161]

Hello Kyu L. The same you mentioned happened to me while watching this video. For a moment I saw reality very clearly. However it was something very weak because I dont think I have undergonne a real transformation. I mean, I keep strongly attached to my image. I have also read Krisnamurty for many years. Best wishes

[@djblaxix]

@@emiliocortes6161 Hello, I also happened to feel the truth not only in this video, but in many of Jiddu's talks. The problem is mainly that we do not give that level of complete attention to consciousness, it is a level where not even a link of egocentric consciousness works, our fragmentation is many years old, it resides in material memory for thousands of years. Breaking with that requires a level of attention and listening like never before, that's why I said listening to you is an art, when we listen like this the truth flourishes and we feel it, but for a brain that still does not understand the non-material world, it remains trapped in he.

[@bobbygeorge77]

The most fascinating conversation I have ever heard.

[@shaileshjha2087]

Listening to JK is always profound. Whatever he says seems out of this world. Trying to understand him is an adventure in itself. Thanks JK, you spoke against all odds.

[@utkarshthakare]

Timeless insights, grateful for the person who saved these archives and also grateful to the one who shared them for humanity to see.

[@karenann5090]

Never take anything personally. People’s actions always say more about themselves than they do about the people they are directed against.

[@judyhtranslate]

JK saw how our mind operates so clearly! Incredible.

[@maheshkb9781]

0:46'Can thought observe itself? 4:06,one of the main reasons why human beings don’t want to transform themselves radically, is that they are frightened of not belonging to a group, to a herd, to something definite-of standing completely alone? I think you can only cooperate from that aloneness, not the other way round. 10:55 identifying with the group and being with the group, what does it mean? What is involved in it The group is me and I am the group. It is like, I am cooperation with me. 11:35 One says, “I am in the group, therefore I am”. You see, if I am not in a group where am I? In other words I have no being at all. That is really the condition of the primitive tribe, for most of the members anyway. And there is something deep there because I feel that my very existence, my being, psychologically, is implied in being in the group. The group has made me, everything about me has come from the group. I am nothing without the group.I am the group in fact. And therefore if I am out of the group I feel everything is collapsing. I don’t know where I am. I have no orientation, to life or to anything. 14:15, you are the world. 15:40, To be alone is to mean step out of the stream of utter confusion, disorder, sorrow. 24:10, Being in chaotic condition, To move away from that, which is to have total order, most people are afraid. Alone, as he pointed out, is all one. Therefore there is no fragmentation, then there is cosmos We have got chaos and confusion, that is what we have got. Now if you have an idea about being alone while in chaos and confusion, that is just another idea, another thought, another part of the chaos. Is that right?moving away from that we have the feeling we will be alone. Therefore we say, “I would rather stay where I am in my little pond than face isolation.” And that may be one of the reasons why human beings don’t radically change. 25:21,Another reason why human beings don't change, we are so heavily conditioned to accept things the way they are. We don't say to our self why should I live this way???

[@DanielRamBeats]

I didn't realize before, but the guest here is David Bohm, one of our greatest minds in physics and quantum physics.

[@MarcBreaugh]

He is an inspirational thinker

[@ITAlife98]

For me at 51:10 Dr. Shainberg hits the nail on the head when describing the realization and clarity which is then quickly followed by fear overwhelming once again.

[@mayakrasikova5085]

Very nice sharing by Krishnamurti. JK and dr. Bahm seem to have deep understanding, going beyond accepted forms, while the other Dr. is thinking "in the box". Very interesting dynamic, just like in a society.

[@user-xh9rw3wh3m]

+Maya Krasikova Thinking in the box, nice way to put it..

[@kumar2ji]

Extraordinary! Very few highly sane human beings would grasp the depth of such wisdom. Magnificent

[@grahaminglis4242]

This dialogue is significant in several respects because it highlighted the distinction between coming in contact with the fact after lengthy discussion and deep investigation into the nature of thought processes. Krishnamurti (K) asks Shainberg (S) how he received the fact and S’s brain went straight into translating the discovery into the intellectual database of acquired knowledge and wondering how it may be utilised in his psychoanalyst practice. In so doing S demonstrated exactly what the conditioning around problem creating and problem solving mechanisms are latent in the inner workings of fragmented thinking processes. He acted just like anyone else would act in similar situations, turning facts into ideas for the purpose of future utility. That’s why K asked him the question, so that we viewers may see ourselves mirrored in the response of S because K was aware of what the outcome was likely to be.

[@grahaminglis4242]

The aloneness arising from this dialogue is pointed out by Krishnamurti as synonymous with death of the psyche (me) and therefore all the other images of mankind which are inextricably related to the (me) because of the holistic consciousness that we are generally unaware of, but which nevertheless is the fact. When confronted with this actuality the ordinary response is to instantly runaway from the unknown factor of the immanence of the ego dying experienced by the thought movement as deep fear.so the retreat is back to the known psychological world of fragmented duality.

[@funstuff8147]

S' role in the conversation was crucial in terms of making it go a certain way that the conditioned mind, one that is eager to understand would have a chance to actually see. i would go as far as to say that S' presence was the one factor that led the conversation the way it had been led to.

[@synchronicity67]

Realize how experiences like heartbreaks etc hav led me to be alone.. first it was horrible n then slowly I got to see I'm not really alone if I'm happy /ok being alone.. it kind of grows on u ..

[@ladikapoor9296]

Dr Bohm explanation was ultimate for me..listen from 42.45 onwards..how beautifully he explained. Thank you from the bottom my heart. ❤️🙏🏻💕🌈

[@legaspirio]

Living in a religious country Philippines, you need courage to be alone and I did it. I've been doing this in actual life since 1990 ahead of knowing the speaker's life principle analysis and it solidify my mind and free.

[@channel-qb3yr]

Filipino culture/belief is a big prison. That’s why it seemed like nothing made sense growing up.

[@ronaldjohnson4845]

But if you need to be alone and courage isn't that still a product of thought. Needing to go from here to there. I'm just wondering.

[@kevincastelino3209]

Living psychologically alone and in freedom is really challenging even if one has not heard JK. Living together biologically and socially is normal and humane.

[@electricoencorto]

Te felicito grandemente,

[@F8LDragon2]

What I am implying is that K is describing observing pure objective reality and then sticking with it. A sense of absolute stillness in time but yet observe movement and witness thought flush through. If you are sitting down and feeling great terror, to then suddenly realize that all you are doing is sitting down, that is ALL. You are just sitting there, to then suddenly remind yourself of the feeling of terror is thought, but stick with the truth, you are just sitting there, that’s ALL.

[@ajayjoyt]

David understand the idea what jk said jk's happiness in face shows how much he really compassionate to people suffering from ignorance.. Love you too jk ❤

[@jakewalters4911]

JK's reactions to some respones are priceless.

[@lumenamiguel]

Amazing 🙏 remaining with fact that thought is a movent that creates the chaos, when thought stopped we are in order in cosmos🤣so true thank you Mr. J. K for sharing 🌹

[@patrickbinford590]

Krishnamurti had his own language that people who wanted to discuss things with him needed to learn. But what he talked about reflected ancient knowledge.

[@alexandruconstantin9719]

Mulțumesc 🙏

[@ornellamiliciani7074]

Che meravigliosa conversazione è talmente coinvolgente che ti vedi lì con loro a dialogare👍👍❤️

[@san2k6pat]

Yes i think thought has to remain with the fact always then only it will not move in all the directions where self as abstraction moves for satisfying itself........True as others have said in the comments .. Compared to so many books and articles i have read by Jk over the many years combined by me ....he has really made it easy in this series of videos ..the understanding of real sorrow we are facing in our lives individually inside us as well as collectively

[@diegokricekfontanive]

When you identify with a group, you are that group. Your mind is like that of the group and so is your behavior. You don't think anymore!

[@nitinrodge]

Thank you very much for this!

[@disminliguido]

ok i need to see this video 500 times until i understand this completely

[@Bilangumus]

There is nothing to understand, if you think you need something to achieve something, you already live in the future.

[@michaelodriscoll]

Listening Attentively, Open-minded, no judgement nor comparison, effortlessly Observing, then it is Seeing.. Begin by Forgiveness of self, it is the veil , that stops Clarity arising. Namaste ✌🙌💚🌞👍🤗

[@gc7304]

I think you need to watch different videos from JK although you don't understand everything totally from a particular video. In times, as you understand the concepts piece by piece in each video then the total videos are getting more and more clear

[@kevzf]

It seems that Understanding is part of thought, thinking, Mind. And Mind IS Time! Living in time, which corresponds to living fragmentally, as it was said in the earlier video’s, we are fragmented! Because we live in the mind of time, which is a fragment of the timeless reality, and I have to assume then, when Consciousness is aware of itself, (watching the movement of thought), we realize that’s the existential I, rather than the I created in thought. Lol

[@ritesharora6032]

start with students discussion.they are easier to follow

[@michaeldelisieux5252]

Many thanks for posting.

[@thewayofbeauty5731]

One common point I see in his sayings and in other spiritual teachings is "the end of the self".

[@kooroshrostami27]

It's really the core of Eastern spirituality. The revelation that the self is a persistent delusion and the root of all sorrow. This is the human condition.

[@samahsamiha8039]

Merci beaucoup 🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@jamaljoudeh6625]

This was really helpful , I was experiencing suffering because a narcissi girl joined my work group, she started to control , and suddenly, I felt that I'm experiencing the feeling of being isolated.

[@SergioWalter-fl3fm]

Who is listening today this video?

[@dhananjayraparla560]

Today

[@moritzs4584]

Today

[@fergales4165]

hoy

[@Arkia-c3z]

I'm watching NOW

[@Nutritional-Yeast]

Stumbled by accident, what a great talk.

[@alexandruconstantin9719]

Mulțumesc mult ❤🤝❤🙏

[@lisasabinaharney]

Dr S I guess represents the obtuse human mind. Hard not to be annoyed by him, amazing how K doesnt react at all, lesson.

[@alexandruconstantin9719]

Multumesc ❤🤝❤🙏

[@harshraj3344]

Anyone in September 2024

[@karenann5090]

I am. I tried what he asked Dr. S. to try. Can thought be aware of itself and it was, for me, a blank wall. There was nothing there.

[@subhaschandrabag]

excellent discussion

[@jaguarazul]

thanks

[@lokeshkp3875]

Great insight

[@manatsadvakassova8778]

🙏 I love watching this video. especially in winter 🙏

[@johnkay5821]

More and more I listen, more I digest more to get the point that thoughts creat movement , and time . It’s waist of energy. Than, is lot more when we listen more and more , we discovering more. 🙏🌺

[@wadeparker8695]

“ The trouble is the one that wants to do the fixing is the one causing all the problems “ Alan Watts

[@lokeshparihar7672]

33:14 continuation of the question of how thought gives sense to reality from last talk. 42:40

[@MayaNature113]

In that aloneness I can be completely secure. To concur own human nature, being partially a social being however come to conscious individuation.. to concur fear of living and dying alone. Big task!

[@angelasiegfried-rossi5034]

Diese video bringt sooooo viele an Klarheit... ich bin keine kruppe mensch aber erst iezt wird durch.die Erklärung von krischnamurti vieles klar .....❤

[@williamwasilewski7925]

Society is giving us a false sense of security today 🙏🏻

[@chandruu1995]

Self exploration. The clarity of thought and awareness of environment which the thought lives in.

[@tuquansing5606]

If you are really living in the moment which means pay full attention to what is happening or doing and in the mean time without too much thought, you will not be afraid of death because time does not exist in you.

[@jimmybolton8473]

I imagine you can be at the top with all the power and feel alone.

[@williamwasilewski7925]

Why don’t we change? 🙏🏼

[@wadeparker8695]

Long ago when we were part of tribes it was dangerous for the group and therefore for yourself to think outside of the excepted norm.. if you will. It may have meant death. We had to stick together to survive. Now we don’t need that but we still have the mentality. Leading to groupthink and a collective ego.. it becomes us versus them. now days we “resist “ Resistance causes pain. To be an opposition of what is is to cause suffering for yourself. That’s OK though because the suffering can be transmuted into awakening. It’s all unfolding perfectly, you are exactly where you need to be. Now breathe

[@martinpeeves147]

wow

[@Paddy21]

The first couple of times I watched this dialogue I had a very similar reaction as Dr. Shaneberg did (panic). When K said "when that movement of thought stops, I am dead," an immense feeling of fear and panic came over me, so much so that I nearly had a panic attack. I just thought it was interesting because K later said: you are describing humanity. Which was very much the case for me as I had a similar reaction. I wonder if anyone else had this reaction??

[@fredynavarrete7933]

i had panic, but great clarity also, this videos change my life!! Dr Dr. Shaneberg represent us, in hte begining i thought, he was annoying, but if you react you going to have problems for an insight, listen Dr. Shaneberg carefully, he is you!!!!!!

[@Paddy21]

@@fredynavarrete7933 I'm curious now, in what way have they changed your life?

[@Anxh007]

@@Paddy21 it just ends thought and mind is still

[@henrykang3736]

42:52 Bohm: “If people would stop talking the whole problem would vanish”. Hmm is that the answer or have I just added to the problem with this comment?

[@pawanpandey9090]

You have abstracted

[@emilmandru.cumamdescoperit5335]

It is something ameizd since to listening all those kind of films i been undestand the true face of world that is leave in the mess and all wich we have the privilegi to know this we are very lacky ,no anyoneelse could has acces at the knowing .

[@jatintawari]

Subtle eye contacts K has been having with David through out the series . These contacts speak volume without using language

[@nitinvsjain]

The way JK ends at "Can You". DS would have certainly wanted the conversation to end & it did.

[@piyushk7144]

The year is 2021. The chaos is still going on!

[@santanacata10]

Thank you 🙏❣️

[@prof.vishalapatnam1955]

Genius JK

[@BigWavesKays]

29:24 is GOLD

[@noone5461]

Stay with the facts which are sensations without trying to make any effort and let the thoughts keep acting upon the sensation more there awareness of the current feeling more energy releases It takes time to see it more than people wants to spent If you are serous enough try to spent couple hours or even a whole day every day all your life and you will The fact what j.k talked about Don’t wanna give any instructions but that thing is real

[@Partoscity1]

I am so scared how good he describes my patterns, i don`t know that this is but i am what he is talking about ... even this that i say about me i really don`t want to do it. After leaving the so called aqarium you can transform , you will see the chain of creation. You lose every conditioning, everything that it was given to you as information , you verify everything and then you see the truth. You will never be the same , is not something to compare with joy, truth is the stick... and good and bad are the ends. You will have the power to hold the balance.You will see in everyones eyes how lost and scared they are ... hiden behind patterns and conditioning... and they will defend it because is everything they know..

[@maiteyailengarciacarallero8811]

È duro il dottore. ☺️

[@SVK2016]

David bohm and Alan w Anderson two people could talk with K together.

[@kooroshrostami27]

Agreed these are the 2 who stand out, all the others only get confused and irritated while talking to K.

[@krox477]

"All fear is thought"

[@AnthonyHoward-ru8su]

After listening to Krishnamurti for a bit I have come to notice that the word is not the thing and I have discovered that to listen with an analytical mind falls short of understanding as much as when one listens with affection with an interest in understanding what he is trying to say without the ego seeking what can be gained through listening

[@djma5202]

When hé said, Ask the question how do you receive it, how do you or public listen to that ? at 50.20 it makes me cry . Why?

[@ladikapoor9296]

At 20:30 JK says when alone we are in cosmos and therefore there is no tree. Have any of you understood this point? If you did are you able to share your understanding. 🙏🏻💕

[@eu5969]

Because you are the tree, you are ALL ONE

[@keithturner2895]

I believe what he actually said was "therefore there is no three" referring to the three people having the discussion. Meaning they are all the same, all alone, all one when their chaos ends.

[@kooroshrostami27]

It's confusing at first because when we use the word "alone", we usually mean that we are on our own, apart from anyone else, isolated, lonely. But the root meaning of alone is quite different, it means "all one". If all is one, there is no me, no you, just one universal order = cosmos. Why is all one? Because we are all fundamentally the same, though one may look slightly different and have slightly different interests or qualities, the fundamental structure of our consciousness is one and the same. We all suffer, we all have the urge for everlasting security and can't get it. Basically, we are the same. If we truly see this, we won't see ourselves as seperate, we are compassionate to another because my suffering is your suffering, there is no difference. This compassion will solve the problems of humanity because the human capacity to learn is very strong, if we don't use our intellectual capacities to destroy one another, we can easily accomplish peace. 99% of human problems exist because everybody puts "I" first and thereby doesn't hesitate to harm others to benefit the individual. If we stop making a difference between I and you, we and they, all these problems vanish.

[@krox477]

The word tree is movement of thought

[@MaiteYailenGarciaCarralero]

❤️💓💗🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼🌼

[@omkarbhagwat3840]

He was not alone afterall..look how many people are getting in touch with me even after his death

[@Akshay-ux6fw]

16:35

[@hardik99]

43:44 hit the nail

[@bhoot786]

❤🌼🙏

[@brishtimandal4597]

I think I am not changing because of fear for my identity, and lazy too

[@nobodyrobert.]

12:24 what he said ?

[@gheorghefalcaru]

Hmmm! How could JK chose Dr. Scheinberg? He is totaly an outsider there.

[@rudhresh-rudie4750]

maybe thats why he chose him

[@rohanpurohit2078]

outsider??.. do I smell a paradoxical fragment here

[@sheelahpascual9208]

I think Dr Scheinberg choose Krishnamurti.

[@ramongomez8849]

🙏🏻

[@fatoufrancescambow5876]

Thank you so much for this video. Would dysfunctional relationships exist at all, if we understood what keeps “us” in “it”?

[@stephansweeton1814]

Just how many Angels can dance on the head of a Pin?

[@satyanarayanaalleboina1805]

I would have liked the title as the transformation of HUMAN rather than MAN! The genius JK and co are soo profoundly discussing the topics than even the beyond (the so called God (BS) could have imagined

[@MaiteYailenGarciaCarralero]

☺️☺️☺️☺️

[@kyletayong9704]

It's an illusion because mind always thinks in fragments . What holds the fragments together is the absolute freedom and order from group/individual or individual group/thinking. When the mind is free and without prejudices , not thinking in fragments. That is freedom. That is order. That's why when you use words to explain it people will be caught in a trap . You can use words to point that order/freedom but you can't describe that order/freedom through words.

[@robertopuccianti8498]

🌻💥🙏💚

[@yasaswy]

Although this insight is helpful, the dissection and the analysis of thought as movement as me, how to end thought by being aware and there by ending me (all it's problems) and in turn truly embracing death. What then is the purpose of this existstance. I wish I was there to tell JK as many times as he asked 'why don't you change' with an answer I know the baggage thought and me gave me but if I lose this completely there is suddenly nothing to do in the boring existence. Therefore as I perceive it, I would like to be aware no to be miserable, 100% mechanical like pursuing entertainment always but also preserve the me for a bit to move on with regular life and family. Also at the same time be aware of the inevitable need for the detachment that comes at the end of it. I think we can use this to kill Fear realising it's thought only when there is sorrow, bitterness and difficult times. We cannot leave everything we do like the daily tasks saying - why, - there is no me, - why work for feeding your family anyway and giving up living itself is not a good approach. Feel free to comment on this with what's your take on JKs amazing discussion and what did to take away from it that is exciting for you to implement or already implemented.

[@mrkz8864]

read his book, watched hundreds of videos... I feel like JK never went this deep like here

[@maiteyailengarciacarallero8811]

☺️

[@wdwdHenry9022]

warning this content may change your brain. forever

[@yelenam7182]

All fears lead to the one ultimate fear which is the fear of death,. One can implement the “so what” technique put forth by Dr.David Hawkins in order to transcend this.

[@deancomrade7961]

If ultimate fear is death , then why anyone will commit suicide. That may be true for animals but not for humans

[@masoudfarsi5884]

@@deancomrade7961 Because me, being the continuity, commits suicide. Although at the first glance, killing one's self might seem like a decision to end things, it serves the purpose of continuity.

[@krox477]

People don't fear death they fear ending of what they know

[@kooroshrostami27]

There is a very old, very simple and to me very concise reasoning to do away with the fear of death. When consciousness is, death is not. When death is, consciousness is not. You never actually experience your own death, it doesn't exist in one's life. The fear of death is utterly nonsensical. We are afraid of a mere idea of death which may have very little to do with the actual death as non-existence.

[@satyanarayanaalleboina1805]

at 51.00 how did you feel it?. For me it was like dissolving with cosmos and becoming one with it! Thats as if like water and earth etc..then it becomes a conclusion...but that it cant be that...wow..

[@patrickbinford590]

Dr Shainberg didn't want to be banished from this group. And K and Dr Bohm didn't want him to be banished either. 😑

[@aak852]

Hello

[@not_melkor]

How do I listen to it?

[@introduceme.tomyself]

But who am I without thought?? How do I discover the real me when I know that I am the thought?

[@masoudfarsi5884]

When you say " I know that I am the thought", it implies that there is a "me", as a center, which knows it is the thought; meaning that there is a "me" separate from "knowing" or from the "thought", or from anything else. Saying or accepting intellectually that "I am the thought" doesn't change anything. The change takes place and you can answer your question only when you, the thought, can see that it is the thought, in a way that this separation between "me" and the "thought" doesn't imply. Actually!

[@CR_07770]

We actually doesn't understand that what the thought really is.

[@healthpediashop8536]

48:00 pikiran ciptakan aku

[@healthpediashop8536]

55:00 semua pikiran adalah ketakutan

[@Amitrai48-sw9vj]

S : thought sees and forget

[@yacovmitchenko1490]

Krishnamurti says "You are thought". Well, partly. But the question is: what notices thoughts come and go? Is that itself a thought? Awareness is not thought.

[@masoudfarsi5884]

When you say partly, it implies that there is a "you" or "me" that one of its functions is thinking, right? Though, what can be perceived by "You are thought" is that the very mechanism that separates "me" and "thinking" is the "me". This circle of separation and therefore conflict goes on and on until thought tries to be aware of this movement, which is when it stops as there is no separation anymore.

[@yacovmitchenko1490]

First of all, there need be no conflict involved in the acknowledgement that consciousness has many layers and functions. One of those functions happens to be awareness; another function happens to be thought. @@masoudfarsi5884 For example, at point A there may be no thought whatsoever, yet there remains an awareness of the surroundings (the chair, a person, a dog passing by, etc.) In other words, there's no thought at the moment, JUST awareness of the tree, and so on. So clearly awareness and thought are not synonymous. To be aware of the tree is NOT to be THINKING ABOUT the tree. Not the same thing. Similarly, to be aware of thought is not thinking. There need be no conflict. They're just different functions. Don't confuse fragmentation/separation with simple differences in function.

[@dafniterzaki4327]

Please, put greek subs!