Landowner Gets $2.5M for Trees Cut Down Illegally

[@Zayphar]

No one pays out a $2.5M settlement if they weren't afraid of being found grotesquely liable in court. You pay the 7 figure settlement now in order to avoid an 8 figure settlement later.

[@HappilyHomicidalHooligan]

Either that, or they were afraid of getting slapped with a 7 figure settlement and a 1 or 2 figure Prison Sentence...

[@PSUQDPICHQIEIWC]

Terms of the settlement should have required that they not make false public statements regarding the matter. ... but that's wishful thinking.

[@Zayphar]

@@HappilyHomicidalHooligan You can't get a prison sentence from a civil case, and most criminal prosecutors won't bother with a case like this.

[@spodula]

Well, if the estimate for fixing the damage was upwards of $3m and you were likely to get triple damages if it went to court......

[@additudeobx]

...and/or mounting legal fees....

[@katisugarbaker7349]

“Necessity” is not the same as “goshdarnit convenient”. Entitled narcissists who assume they can do what suits them in your property must pay.

[@usseg]

Sure but ultimately the affected party decided 2.5mil was worth it to settle.

[@traceystock7352]

@@usseg But the tree was already cut down at that point so why shouldnt they get some cash. It's the best type of civil accountability. Criminal accountability is usually a class i or 2 misdemeanor.

[@specialsause949]

​@@traceystock7352I think now that the they've settled, I'd use that money to erect a very large fence to make sure that view is obstructed.

[@rampagenelson9658]

@@specialsause949Or just buy an ugly statue 😂

[@traceystock7352]

@@rampagenelson9658 Or one of those tall gumby figures that bends back and forth that car dealerships put out by the road to advertise sales

[@cycleboy8028]

If you had a 200 yr old chestnut... that's like $1B. You'd be on preservation lists. The Chestnut Restoration Project would be taking samples and giving you guards to post!

[@riccochet704]

I've seen a single tree cost people $250k. A single 110-130 year old oak tree that the loggers cut down by mistake on my friend's property because they mismarked the property line. Costly mistake. You can't exactly replace a 110-130 year old tree. It was tough to age it since it had survived several forest fires that stunted it's growth each time. Point is, better know what you are cutting down belongs to you.

[@Londubh]

It's like the recent Sycamore Gap Tree felling. How can you replace a 150 y/o tree, that was a internationally known landmark (it was featured in Robinhood: Prince of Thieves)?

[@pt68picaso]

The girth of the oak is more important than the age regarding its value.

[@Legion-xq8eo]

@@pt68picasothat’s what she said!!

[@pashtanah]

​@@Legion-xq8eo😂

[@toriless]

$30 from USFS

[@tonydavidson5195]

I think the first order of business is to erect a big sign blocking the view from the inn until the trees grow out.

[@rebapuck5061]

Good idea. What should the sign say?

[@UncleKennysPlace]

@@rebapuck5061Something that rhymes with _Nantucket._

[@dianeladico1769]

Came here to post this. Sure, replant the trees as you are able (even smaller ones) but in the meantime we are going to allow the homeowner great latitude in trashing your view.

[@SeanBZA]

Put on the sign the full court transcript, and in big print on top the damages awarded. After all nothing stopping you from publishing a copyright free, public access allowed, court document. That it is on a 30 foot high 80 foot long billboard, with lights to illuminate it at night, is your allowed decision, and right, so long as you follow local laws around erection of a billboard, and the local council approves it. Inn really cannot deny this, as otherwise you just hand out copies to every vehicle that pass by for the next year or three, looking to go to the inn.

[@TazERASES13]

He certainly has the money to do it now too, lol

[@DMS20231]

If it had gone to trial and I were on the jury, I’d award the lady an inn with a beautiful view.

[@sandrajones2262]

Oh, no. That is not enough money, no way. 100 trees? Those trees are so worth much more than that, not to mention the maliciousness of the act in the first place.

[@TheOrangeRoad]

It comes out to around 18k a tree. And 80f white oak is valued around 13-15k, and that's the most expensive out of all the trees named, so that's actually a fair price. But, thats only of they were selling the trees. They were NOT for sale, and someone got money for those trees, they didn't just go to waste. So I'm thinking that's why the Inn settled, they came out WAY ahead

[@usseg]

Hence why they settled.

[@NanaWilson-px9ij]

These trees were cut down on a half acre. You don't get that many huge trees in that space. Some of the felled trees were small trees.

[@semosancus5506]

BS. If you somebody offered you 2.5M for a 1/2 acre of trees you would call it a "windfall" and take it in a heartbeat.

[@ronaldhudson169]

Not to mention, cutting down all those trees probably changed the hydrologie of the land and could be causing damage to the structures there. Repairing and mitigating that damage should be considered too.

[@colliswilliams8992]

I was shopping for vacant land to build a house on. I found a large mountain top wooded lot I loved, that was very reasonably priced, and I started getting excited at the possibilities. It was so much cheaper than surrounding land, so I started wondering what the catch was. Then I found it. After calling around, I found a realtor who told me they had previously tried to sell the property and backed out because the seller had entered the land into a contract with a timber company that gave them rights to all the trees, and she didn't want to disclose that. So be careful where you build your dream home.

[@Rhaspun]

In my state the seller would have to disclose that type of information to a potential buyer.

[@toriless]

USFS does land swaps all the time, take these two tree filled square miles for two stripped ones.

[@arthurmoore9488]

@@Rhaspun The general rules of contract law mean that even when not explicitly required, every seller has to disclose those facts. Imagine going to sign after having everything lined up only to find that clause in there. I'd be demanding my deposit back, and any money I paid for inspection, etc... If it's not in the contract/deed and I made the purchase, then I'd be suing the seller as soon as I found out. That's the definition of fraud.

[@georgesheffield1580]

Oklahoma trees are part of the " mineral rights "

[@summersands8105]

Where I live, out in the boonies of PA, people are very cautious when it comes to tree removal. I'm surrounded by thousands of acres of woodlands. Even if a tree, from another's property, falls onto my property, I don't just go and chop up the wood and haul it away. Every effort is made to contact the land owner(s) and have them dispose of the fallen tree(s) or get their permission to remove it. I can't imagine someone coming onto my property and chopping down hundreds of trees without my permission. Even the utility companies don't arbitrarily cut down, or prune, trees without my permission.

[@justliberty4072]

In our part of PA, the utility companies hire local contractors who definitely arbitrarily cut down and prune trees without permission.

[@mikepalmer1971]

@@justliberty4072Are they trees in the right of way for utilities?

[@MonkeyJedi99]

In Massachusetts, we had a neighbor ask us to cut down one of our white pine trees because it was dropping sap and branches on their car in their driveway. We looked at the tree, determined that it was reaching "that age" and made an agreement that we would cut it down if they would affirm that any accidental damage to the fence between the properties during the removal would not be charged to us. We coordinated a weekend when they parked on the street and took the tree down in pieces and one friend of ours hauled it away for their outdoor wood fires. - We avoided legal entanglements in the matter by... (gasp!) TALKING to our neighbors.

[@nolongeramused8135]

@@MonkeyJedi99 I did that with a massive branch from a chestnut tree that was 40 feet into my property and choking a plum tree. I'd already checked the law and I could have just started cutting at the property line with zero notification, but I had to live next to these people.

[@ScotttheCyborg]

When the power utility wanted to run new lines, they already had an easement and still paid for the trees. Not market rate, but they likely had a case to not pay at all. I'm sure it stopped a lot of arguments.

[@dragonchild1082]

Tree laws are terrifying, and what I’ve learned is what ever you do, make sure to stay in your legal right (aka on your property) and don’t do anything else or you will get your butt ran across the coals

[@thehimself4056]

Two of the harshest laws we have. Cattle rustling. Death penalty in most states not long ago. Tree felling in private property. Both are literally irreplaceable by money or words of comfort. To the ones losing said property. Is life altering to some. So the courts have seemingly been on the same page about this for a great many years.

[@jblyon2]

My Uncle has a decent sized plot of land, most of which is wooded. Every year he has an arborist come around to flag trees that should be cut down in order to maintain the property. The arborist walks him around, shows him every flagged tree, and gets him to sign off that all the flagged trees are his. The tree company that comes out again walks around with him to confirm every tree and has him sign off on their removal. It's been the same arborist and tree company for over 2 decades now. They know the property very well, and they STILL verify every tree, every time. They just won't take the chance.

[@dangeary2134]

I was working for a guy that had six acres of trees. I struck a deal with him that I would only cut standing trees that were decidedly DEAD. They made excellent firewood. There was a lot of oak and cherry. I was the shop mechanic, and I helped take care of his property as well as being the company dedicated mechanic. (I was one of those odd guys that would go out with the work crews to see how a machine was doing so I had a better diagnosis to the problems) Every year, I would walk through the forest, and mark any and all trees that were bearing no leaves. I would sometimes piece of bark, and always find a layer of fungus. His Control Freak wife convinced him I was cutting live trees, somehow. I brought in a “slice” of a tree, and stripped the bark right before their eyes. White, all the way around. It doesn’t take an Arborist to know it’s literally in the first stage of rotting. So, when I was in the process of cutting trees, I got the oak, which stunk to high heaven, and I would give him the cherry tree wood. Cutting and splitting (by hand) all summer allowed both of us to heat our respective homes without turning on the furnace. I’ve not had but two bosses like him, and I miss having employers like them.

[@justliberty4072]

@@jblyon2 What does "maintain the property" mean? Dying and dead trees are a key part of nature and host numerous species of insects and other animals as well as fungi etc.

[@jblyon2]

@@justliberty4072 Mostly disease mitigation. There are tree diseases impacting the area. The trees with signs of disease get cut down before it can spread to other nearby trees.

[@bthyme]

The tree company should recoup their million by suing the inn.

[@paulvanallen-lononca]

It would be the insurance company "they paid"...but maybe they had known before or on the day they started someone came out. These insurance companies know when and not

[@SeanBZA]

@@paulvanallen-lononca Insurance company will no doubt be suing the inn owners in turn, to recover the cost they incurred. Tree fellers out is the inn likely told them they had permission from the property owners to remove the trees, and that it was done when they were away so as to not disturb them.

[@paulvanallen-lononca]

@@SeanBZA Yes, but if they heard on day one of operations that there was a issue and came back day two. Then the tree 🎄 company would have some liability. Was what I added.

[@toolman1990]

The insurance company will no doubt sue but I doubt it will be collectible my guess is the inn will immediately file for bankruptcy protection once sued which will end the insurance company lawsuit. Hence why the victim sued the tree company who has insurance who can actually payout the claim unlike the inn.

[@SeanBZA]

@@toolman1990 I think though the insurance will sue both the inn, and personally the people who actually engaged the contractors. Inn might try to declare bankruptcy, but likely will lose as the insurer will claim this predates the filing, and thus is a claim to be settled first, and then the ones who did the work will lose as well, plus shareholders of the inn will find themselves personally liable to pay. Remember shares of a company also mean that you can be forced to pay in as well, not just collect a dividend, you can be also held liable for loss as well. Not a thing that you often get told when buying shares.

[@amygessel6767]

It's not just the upper part of the tree that is the problem. The roots are also still there. You can't just 'Re-Plant.' The roots take 5 to 10 years to decompose with hardwoods like oak taking longer.

[@tallthinkev]

Depending on the soil, it could be 100's of years, or sometimes 1,000's

[@SeanBZA]

Yes, not to mention a lot of trees deposit tannins in the ground, which discourages other trees to grow near them, so to plant a new one you need to remove a considerable amount of topsoil, and then replace with new topsoil, and tamp down carefully to get the aeration correct, before replacing the tree.

[@pt68picaso]

I have Red Pine tree roots in the ground over 55 years just as solid as the tree were cut down yesterday. The trees may have been cut down 100-120 years ago when this area was developed

[@toriless]

Heh! Some trees roots never die. I had 4 trees pops up in a empty place. Previous owner had cut down a tree. 4 replaced it from the roots. I transferred 1, composted 2 and left the 4th as its replacement. Even stump killer would not work unless properly applied. I have had to remove trees too as well as plant some. It is even more complex than you present. I did find root killer greatly changes the time when properly applied. Also, to not forget about nurse trees, they are important which is why they MUST remain in a NPGA.

[@SeanBZA]

@@toriless Very hard to kill a fig tree, they are tenacious, and even Roundup will not always work on them. Took 2 bottles applied direct to the root system growing in concrete, plus removing all the visible wood, to kill one. There is a bougainvillea growing quite comfortably near me, living at the top of a street light fixture, growing in the little gap between the steel pole and the lamp base. It is healthy, even flowering with nice purple leaves when I went past today. Street light still works as well. one tough plant that, also resistant to insecticides as well, plus a bear to trim down. I use a chainsaw, both a regular one and a long pole saw, to avoid getting all destroyed from the thorns when going in for the deeper branches. Garden service people were not exactly happy putting it on the truck though, those thorns go pretty well through most types of glove with no problem.

[@djksfhakhaks]

R/treelaw and all these stories are so amazing. I know im a bit weird but i dont get how everyone doesnt love this stuff.

[@wingracer1614]

Everyone loves tree law

[@AeroGuy07]

In the late 80s one of the people whose land bordered our land sold off some trees. Before they started my dad walked the property line with the tree cutters, so they knew which trees they couldn't cut down.

[@traceystock7352]

We bought a house on 4 acres in the country to get away from this kind of crap. Unfortunately suburbanites have followed us and we have two families on our boundary trying to take over part of our wooded boundaries on our land. One of those boundaries sports a 150 year old oak tree that is about 85 feet tall and admired by passersby. I am getting a new survey this week and hope to figure out a way to properly mark the boundary. I was able to fence the other one in. Once they cut the tree I'll have a hard time getting any damages awarded in court. Both properties doing this are 3 acres big and have no reason to encroach on our land. It's just the invasive and entitled mindset we see too much of today.

[@TRRGuns]

Purple paint. It's criminal trespass to go past it

[@shawncarroll5255]

​@@TRRGunsDepends on your state law

[@bbrcummins1984]

We have the same problem in north Florida, low life's from South Florida are moving up here and destroying property everywhere

[@georgesheffield1580]

Entitled rich

[@stephenblack8804]

Mark the corners with an iron pin plus a T-post and have them flag the lines, maybe setting a pin near the oak tree to make it obvious where the line is. Get to know your states laws regarding trees straddling a property line.

[@georgeb1364]

I worked for a large electric utility company and at one electrical substation location the division landscape supervisor had several tall-mature eucalyptus trees cut down on one side outside the main fence of the property as the trees caused an ongoing maintenance cleanup burden. The supervisor assumed the trees were on company property because there was a 12 foot wide cement lined waterway and another fence separating the trees from the neighboring homeowner's back yard. WRONG, the neighbor said he had planted those trees on his property 40 some years ago to screen his view from the electric switch yard. I don't remember if a lawsuit was filed or not but the company ended up bringing in mature trees at great expense to replace the ones cut down. The supervisor kept his job though.

[@cgi2002]

Likely if they replaced them at cost, there was no lawsuit just a discussion and a potential threat of one if a remedy wasn't found. Also been a larger company they may have gone we fk'd up, we don't want the bad PR, we will make this right.

[@rebapuck5061]

In the case of a 200yo chestnut tree, consider the use of the tree for propagation too. I have a chest of drawers made from chestnut. It's a gorgeous wood.

[@kellark]

Anyone notice how much joy Steve gets when explains the word treble?

[@cycleboy8028]

He tembles at the treble.

[@RogerFleischer-p3f]

The wise man will not hire a lawyer who does not love his work. .

[@mikeyh0]

The tree cutters should have looked at the property lines, etc. Any company worth its salt would have.

[@madmaximilian5783]

@mikeyh0• I'm pretty sure that the tree removal company knew the value of all those trees before and after they were processed(milled)...I'm just guessing though.

[@springhollerfarm8668]

No, they would not, although I bet this company will from now on, if they aren't run out of business by this. That's not their job, when someone wants trees cut and tells you they are theirs... I am gonna guess the tree company's insurance will now sue the owners of the inn for their mil back, and rightfully so. It is 100% the inn owner's fault here.

[@toolman1990]

@@springhollerfarm8668 They will still be in business but they might be looking for a new insurance company and will be paying a very high insurance rate for the foreseeable future due to the large claim that was paid out.

[@winstonwolf6791]

@@springhollerfarm8668 This is incorrect in almost every state. The tree company has liability for clear negligence, since they didn't check easily available public records. Especially on a plot land where the person directing you obviously doesn't live. It would be like demolishing a house at someones direction without bothering to check if they actually own it. In some jurisdictions an egregious case like this could cause criminal charges to be brought against the cutters.

[@mikepalmer1971]

That is what it was thinking. Otherwise anyone could hire you to just cut down any random tree. Lol.

[@davidcookmfs6950]

I lived in Strawberry west of Lake Tahoe as a child, and I remember an old lay who had moved away for better weather rented her house out, and the tenant cut down all the trees on the property and sold them as firewood. Devastating.

[@jimellison3358]

We had a similar situation,. People moved up from the state to the south wanted to improve their view then cut 60 marketable trees down, they paid us three times. Marketable value at maturity and addition had to replant three time the number they cut down with three-year-old seedlings.

[@billheinowski1807]

I think that the "treble damages" statute you mentioned is the one that is commonly referred to as the "timber trespass" law, which I believe was originally passed in the heyday of the Michigan logging boom and lumber barons (obviously, here in Michigan). There is another law - I'm not sure if it's a state law or done by local ordinances - commonly known as "shade tree" rules. The prices dictated by those or astronomical indeed! My (late) father was a MI registered forester, and I know that he appeared many times in court as an expert witness in such matters. I don't recall the formula he used to calculate a tree's value, but I know it was complex, involving the tree's size, age, species, current market value, replacement value, location, and other factors. I believe that formula was all laid out by statute/ordinance, but I could be wrong about that. In one case that I remember explicitly, the defense counsel began by trying to attack his credibility, and was immediately slapped down. Per the presiding judge (obviously I'm paraphrasing - I wasn't there), "You are free to question the methodology he used. You MAY NOT question his expertise nor qualifications to testify in this matter - he is recognized by this court as an expert witness, period."

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Treble damages have nothing to do with music. Unless my grandmother was singing.

[@paulmann8570]

​@@MonkeyJedi99I always thought we called that the *Deaf Singer* from the Jekyll and Hyde NES game.

[@briangarrow448]

I worked for a small city that was doing a beautification project and buying over 100 gorgeous maple trees to plant in city right of ways and parks. These were larger specimens that were on average 15-20 feet tall. I was able to buy a few at the same time from the same nursery and get them hauled on the same truck. I got a discount price for the trees but I was required to pay for a percentage of the trucking cost. It still was a great deal for me. I planted these trees on my property and every single one of them survived and they are now at their full height-25 to 30 feet tall. They are absolutely stunning in their location but I ended up selling the house. I drive by the old house in fall, just to enjoy the beautiful leaves on those trees.

[@larryreagan6936]

I had this happen to me, a right of way contractor was clearing a TVA right of way cut my property boundary marker tree despite it having boundary markers on it, I called my local electric co-op and they said I had no say over my own property as the corner falls in the right of way. I asked them how could they remove a property boundary marker legally since I'm not allowed to remove them..

[@melkiorwiseman5234]

That should have been reported to the city, since I presume they control property boundary markers and they'd fine the company unless they pre-arranged to be allowed to remove the marker and replace it with something else.

[@larryreagan6936]

@@melkiorwiseman5234 my property is outside of the city limits, and the county won't even fix a pothole around here.. I threatened to sue, just for the replacement of my property marker and they told me it was a right of way and I couldn't. so is my only recourse to have the property surveyed again and have them put in iron pins so I have legal property boundary markers? Idk

[@melkiorwiseman5234]

@@larryreagan6936 Why are you believing what they tell you? Someone must have put those property markers there? Someone must be legally responsible for them, and it's not likely to be you. Find out who and report it to them. Talking to property surveyers might get you that knowledge.

[@JamesAllmond]

Was hoping this would find its way to you... Had to add, even cutting a tree on your own property in the Atlanta areas is 2 to 3 thousand dollars per tree (depending on location) as a former co-worker of mine found out. If you do it to someone else's property, sue yes, but the cutter goes to jail as well... Its happened more than once during Atlanta's last building boom. A few contractors got some rude awakenings.

[@toriless]

$30 on USFS land.

[@glasshalffull2930]

The neighborhood crazy guy cut down his neighbor’s tree when he was out of town and also on another occasion trimmed a town tree outside his backyard. It’s assumed that he wanted better angles for his dozen or so security cameras. No idea what penalties if any he received. Edit: Just remembered another crazy guy in the neighborhood ‘allegedly’ injected poison into a community owned tree that was too close to his property for his liking.

[@dangeary2134]

I’ve heard of that happening to some massive oak tree of significant historical value in Texas. The perp that tried to poison the tree got the book bodily thrown at him!

[@joeshmoe7967]

We had a tree poisoner in our city years back. Also had a wealthy person cut city owned trees to improve his view. Can't recall the penalties, but both were caught and some legal proceedings occurred.

[@traceystock7352]

I have to ask (as the owner of 200 year old beloved old oak tree near my property line)...... how can you tell if someone is trying to poison your tree?

[@thatjeff7550]

Yeah, my local area had a historic tree that "impeding construction" that got poisoned by the contractor (or so folks say) and nothing happened to the construction company. Maybe a $500 fine but that's about it. The tree was immediately cut down after declared dead and a sh!tty little bar was built where it stood.

[@glasshalffull2930]

@@traceystock7352 Well, in my case the tree had about a 3/4 inch hole drilled into it and a cork inserted in the hole. Inside the cork was a hypodermic needle. Basically, load the poison inside a syringe and then walk out and screw the syringe into the needle each time you want to make an injection. Don’t know if any analysis was done on the cork/syringe. However, the arborist said the tree was poisoned. If you fear for your tree, I would put up security cameras that can be seen by anyone in the tree’s vicinity.

[@jssouthtx]

4:08. “They do what they do…very casually”. I always enjoy your perception and articulation of the simplest information. 👍🏻👍🏻

[@gordonshumway7239]

I remember this story. Good to hear that some considerable compensation came to the victims from the wrongdoers! :-) I wish it was even more!

[@The_Endo]

I remember this also, I was appalled by how they acted; very happy to see this settlement.

[@rickwhite5206]

Sadly, the laws allow for "treble" damages in cases of outrageous malicious behavior. You can win the case, but have a dirty, corrupt judge refuse the awarding of treble damages, and reduce it to single times award as happened to me in court in Massachusetts. This bad judicial behavior encourages bad behavior of defendants as they learn to know they will not be punished tripley for their outrageous unlawful behavior. This judge circumvented the spirit and letter of the properly legislatively enacted law. Yeah, go find an attorney to take this case, lol.

[@pt68picaso]

​@@rickwhite5206sounds ripe for appeal.

[@57WillysCJ]

As rare as it might be there are some original American Chestnut trees still alive in Wisconsin. The Lunde Chestnut Trees, they are still original pure genetic strain. There is a hybred that adds a strain that fights the blight. The American Chestnut Foundation is working to restore it to the early American tree ammounts. This year is their 40th anniversory.

[@cycleboy8028]

Yup... a 200yr old Chestnut would be millions of dollars alone. Irreplaceable piece of history and biology.

[@SeanBZA]

Yes, and even if they replace the tree with one of similar size and age, which for a large one will be insanely expensive, they also have to pay for the care of the tree till it roots itself back and starts to thrive, which could be a year or two, and if it dies again from the stress, find yet another one to replace that one again. So whatever cost it is, might treble again, and could carry on for years of paying for the tree.

[@nwolinsP]

This damage that cannot be fixed in a person's lifetime.

[@ixitar]

Try 3 to 4 generations.

[@pt68picaso]

Hence, values equivalent to ones limbs / appendages.

[@derrickboatman1560]

No questions no comments I just love your videos man I do happen to have a 125 acres of trees so I appreciate this video

[@JJ_FLA]

❤❤❤

[@jilbertb]

Tree company probably covered under "errors and omissions" since they assumed the person hiring them actually owned the land.

[@jonathanjones3126]

That won't save them

[@Delimon007]

@@jonathanjones3126 It should. It's not really their job to determine property limits in a case like this.

[@mikeslater6246]

​@@jonathanjones3126sounds to me that he was saved since his insurance covered his portion.

[@jonathanjones3126]

@Delimon007 any smart tree cutter company would double and triple check property lines and owners to avoid cases like this. If some company screwed up like this I would also have gone after them for the value of the lumber and the money to replant the trees twice over just in case some don't take. On top of that I would go for expensive punitive damages.

[@acwhit1593]

Ultimately the insurance company will just drop their coverage and force them to find another insurer.

[@ostlandr]

Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) is an awesome tree. They grow faster than weeds, have a very high BTU content, are rot resistant, and will often grow back from stumps. This allows for coppicing- cutting wood over and over from the same stump. Legend has it that if you cut down a Black Locust and immediately turn it into fence posts and install them, the fence posts will take root. There was this one farm that had a row of Black Locust trees along their pasture, spaced precisely every ten feet. According to the farmer, they started out as green Black Locust fenceposts.

[@ephanhymerable]

This blows the theory of "its easier to apologize than it is to get permission" all to hell!

[@pt68picaso]

Yep. Be a landlord & don't return renter's security deposit. I sued by small claims & was due double.

[@ephanhymerable]

@@pt68picaso I've seen that a few times on people court actually

[@justliberty4072]

Not only are the trees "nice", but the presence of oak and beech shows that it is an old forest; obviously and ecosystem that is hard to replace.

[@kentkrueger6035]

One of my father's coworkers purchased some acreage in Northern Wisconsin that was wooded when he signed the deed. He and his wife went to the land the following weekend and the land was clear cut. A lumber company claimed they had lumber rights. The owners of the land had to sue to get their value of the land reimbursed. Not sure who paid him but the lumber company did fight him. Somebody did pay him for the loss of those trees.

[@cycleboy8028]

It's common for a land owner to sell timber rights... they only think of the "now money". Did the prior owner sell timber rights, then not tell your dad's friends? Not disclose? Or fail to notify the timber company of sale and cancelling of rights? Sounds like a mess.

[@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb]

Very surprised/pleased at the size of the settlement. I've seen magnificient hundreds of years old oaks get cut illegally and they get a slap on the wrist despite ordinances and fines that would otherwise make them liable for huge fines. Many judges/jurisdictions go way too leniently on these crimes.

[@johnnyllooddte3415]

we used to have a tree farm.. big trees can cost 10,000 bucks and arent nearly as big as a wild tree.. so i can see it costing 3million to completely reforest the area..

[@johnnyllooddte3415]

i was going to say triple damages in many states

[@muskokamike127]

Not so much in the US but here in Canada hardwood lumber is like gold. (prob more expensive by weight than gold). You can calculate the value of the tree by the approx board foot of lumber you can get out of it. To give you an idea of the cost: about 15 yrs ago I priced out the purchase of a pine log, 12' long, 20" in dia. $2500. So with the fact that oak is 5x the price of pine, and the increase in inflation, that would be about $70,000 now. If these were mature trees 100' tall, you're talking $300,000 per tree. $2.5M for 130 trees is a pittance.

[@georgeb1364]

Reminds me of in the 1950's an uncle's intestate estate included many acres of land on the Gulf-Cost of Florida. The estate administrator (California) could not get a decent offer on the property so he held on to it for several years. In the mean time unbeknown to the admin, someone cut down all the timber and the state built a highway through the property all with no notice or compensation. I was too little at the time to remember the details of how the issue was resolved and the property sold. I ended up getting about $500 from the estate as I think there was something like 32 others ahead of me to share the estate with.

[@kennethstaszak9990]

Worked with a guy who did something similar for his cottage to get a better view of the river. He had to pay but nowhere near as much.

[@kirkmorrison6131]

Steve, back home in Virginia, there are a few Chestnuts that survived after the blight they came back several times and there are a few that are producing nuts now

[@johnkingery403]

Yes, I have heard that there are a few around. Hopefully they will make a comeback.

[@kirkmorrison6131]

@@johnkingery403 They are, some from Blight Survivors and some hybrids resistant that look just like American Chestnuts

[@jimmarotta5596]

Steve, It's very easy to compute the value of mature trees and to replace them if they are available. We had a gas pipeline approach us to buy a 20 foot by 600 ft easement for a 12 inch gas pipeline. I had the local nursery come out and take base diameter measurements of all the trees that they wanted to remove. The retail/replacement value was just over $350,000.00. I received a check for that amount but did not replace the trees. Mature trees of all species are available, and companies will machine spade them out/ replant and wire brace them. Former farm areas that are now communities will do this so you don't have a completely treeless community.

[@BenLeitch]

Ben is on top of the little brown box over Steve's RHS shoulder

[@thehellyousay]

this is all that matters to you here? 😮‍💨

[@sdraven9954]

A beautiful view of water, as long as you ignore the view of forest devastation in between?

[@CurtisDoesStuffOnline]

I would point out that $1,000,000 is often the "Policy Limits" of an umbrella or business insurance policy. So the cutter's insurance may have settled for the policy limit if there was an indication that the cutting company did not "knowingly" do wrong. As for the Inn, the property owner should have taken them to court for the rest, with the treble damages. Because that Inn is going to benefit from the clear cutting for 20+ years until the newly planted trees start to fill in.

[@johndesaavedra1040]

It takes on average 500 years for a forest ecosystem to produce a beech/maple forest. Oaks only take a hundred or so years.

[@CraigGrant-sh3in]

There was an excavation contractor who some might say was crazy (he's no longer with us) . He was very successful . He had a cottage at a lake but not on the lake. In the off season he sent his guys there and they cut a canal from the lake back to his cottage so he could have his boat at the cottage. Come spring time and people went to open their cottages and there's a canal . Obviously it went to court . His defense was , What is everyone so POed about, they now have off lake docking for their boats. The plaintiffs realized the errors of their thinking and agreed . Case closed. His workers told me many stories . How crazy was he? If one guy got to work late he would fire everyone then an hour or so later call them all to come back.

[@AlanBurnham]

I would think civil liability from the state or feds might be an even bigger concern. You can't even dig a canal on your own property without paying the government off.

[@joshfly210]

With all of the stories I’ve read and heard on tree law and the crazy dollar amount settlements people get from people who cut down trees on other peoples property is crazy that it’s still happening.

[@terramarini6880]

Really rich sphincter muscles consider that just the cost of doing business. At some point an Australian court took exception to that attitude, found in favor of the complainant, made the AH pay for the trees worth as well as replanting and just for good measure made him pay for a giant bill board blocking the "newly purchased view" until the young trees were up to previous height. Lol, his rich neighbors must have been cheesed at him, glorious!

[@idristaylor5093]

Ben is on top of the Italian Hall memorial timber block.

[@arnoldfossman1701]

Q: How do you catch a unique rabbit? A: Unique up on it. Q: How do you catch a tame rabbit? A: Tame way.

[@mikebelcher5111]

I was just informed about a week ago that someone had cut about 5 trees on my property. I'm disabled and there's a part of my mind, I haven't been able to check out for a little while. I found out that there was a quarter of you cut. You know I'm in the process of finding out what to do about it. In Kentucky by the way.

[@rmhartman]

get a licensed arborist to do the evaluation. do not leave that in the hands of lawyers or insurance adjusters.

[@Guido_Sarducci007]

Excellent reporting. If the Defendant cannot pay, attach liens to their possessions. Here in PA we have "Section 8311 - Damages in actions for conversion of timber". Double damages shall be awarded to the Defendant. "Three times the market value of the timber cut or removed if the act is determined to have been deliberate" That will fix their attitudes! Ha!

[@ostlandr]

I was thinking that the Trust is going to end up owning both the Inn and the Tree Service.

[@ahettinger525]

Wow I was just watching a thing on the American chestnut blight yesterday! Kinda neat you brought it up!

[@markspencerlogan]

I find it hard to believe anyone couldn’t know who the property owner is; I live in MA and the state has online property viewers to use free of charge.

[@TheOrangeRoad]

136 trees, for 2.5 million is $18.3k. Tree calculator says 100' White Oak is around $13k. So that sounds like a fair price for the Inn to pay....but where did the money go for selling those trees? No one in their right mind would cut down those expensive trees and turn them into chips. Me thinks the Inn played this perfectly

[@williamp9117]

Somewhere out there, there is a law that evaluates the worth of the tree by the rings. (I am under value the cost per ring, but you the reader will get the core point) $25 per ring and times that if the tree isn't common in the area. Evaluation of it at the common tree or rare. Some trees aren't common to American but to let's say Japan. The cost would be then added for the transportation of it from Japan. The age of the tree being transported. Then the cash difference after cost of digging it up and the replanting of it plus getting it past customs. All of it added together then the difference will be awarded.

[@itsnotme07]

Congrats on getting Menemsha pronunciation correct! Says this guy from Boston who's been to Menemsha....really pretty "working class" place on the Vineyard.

[@aurtisanminer2827]

2:53 black locust is extremely dense wood. It is about the density of the hardest hickory trees. It has a really pretty grain texture to it and is very rot resistant. The park has a unique texture, it creates an X pattern. There is also honey locust, which is similar, but a little bit less dense. The bark also looks different.

[@aurtisanminer2827]

It turns out this is in Massachusetts, so it is most likely black locust. That stuff grows all over out there.

[@duanesamuelson2256]

Bush gardens in Tampa relocated a monster oak tree..(like over 200 years old) it took 2 years and several million dollars 25 years ago. Historical tree

[@edwardmeade]

In a similar case in my old home town Kinnelon NJ, the guy had to pay a fine, but he has to remove the dead trees, plant replacements of the same caliber, and water them for two years and replace any that don't take. They also have to do all this work from the offender's side of the property line. An arborist estimated it for the local paper at about $2M. When they contacted the offender he called that a "slight exaggeration" so maybe $1.9M. That and a six digit fine. And when it's all done he won't get to see the New York skyline any more.

[@edwardmeade]

BTW, that's just what the county is making him do. No mention was made of what action the offended homeowner may have waiting in the wings.

[@LadyAdakStillStands]

Private property, private tree. The "neck o' the woods" exception in our local tiny towns means the only trees up for grabs are downers blocking local roads. First one on scene with a decent sized chainsaw has first rights to the wood to the sidelines. As much as they can haul. Helpers get a piece. County arrives in time to clean up! Local sheriffs and park rangers carry saws too.

[@ostlandr]

Back in the Middle Ages, peasants were allowed to gather dead limbs "by hook, or by crook", or take wood from any "windfall." This still goes on today. That's why you see those old photos and drawings of people with huge bundles of small sticks on their backs. And that in turn is why European forests look like they do. No sticks on the ground whatsoever.

[@colinchichester1809]

Locust is a very dense wood. I remember before we had to remove ours every time a branch fell in the side yard you could feel the thud when sitting inside.

[@MrTrecutter1]

I've been a tree arborist for 25 years and I would never cut trees on someone else's property despite monetary gain. I've turned down several jobs knowing the person hiring me didn't own the property despite having the other property owners consent. I have cut trees on others property with mutal written consent, "contract" between 3 parties. Usually the end result was just trimming trees " of concern and everyone wins. I have however just simply walked away from questionable jobs and never gave it a second thought. I have never really been one to bow down just for monetary gain or loss.

[@usseg]

Money is a powerful lure to many a person.

[@Corntonio]

Are there other types of arborist?

[@059blw]

On the other hand if you have a neighbor who has a tree planted on their property but it has grown onto your property and can potentially damage your property or if you just don’t like it for any reason, then you can cut off the section (branches) that is on your property from where it crosses your property line up to the top of the tree. We have a neighbor who has 3 very large trees that have grown over the fence line probably because they were planted right on the property line and one of them has branches that are touching both our deck and the roof of our house. Several years ago we were getting ready to build a new deck and out of an abundance of caution we had an arborist come out and look at the health of the tree and the portion that he believed should be cut off so that the tree was not damaged and also the roots that were growing in our lawn and right up to the basement wall of our house . He told us that we didn’t need to worry about the roots and that the tree was healthy enough that legally we could cut off every branch that was even with the fence as high as they went and as long as we didn’t go onto their property we were legally protected. However, he noted that one of the branches that was a problem really needed to be cut even with the tree trunk to be sure no damage would occur to that one tree and it would look better but it would require going onto his property to accomplish what he recommended. So we wrote a letter to the neighbor attached the report from tree arborist and asked for permission for the tree trimming service to come onto his property to remove the one branch at the trunk. The letter had a place for his signature and our signature so we could be as protected as possible without hiring a lawyer (no offense). He was known in the neighborhood for being difficult. So I put it all together and went over to show it to him and when I said we were going to pay to have it done, he couldn’t sign it fast enough and he had the equipment to make a copy of the paperwork for himself right there. Even though we had hoped that he would take better care when they started to grow out of his property line but alas he has not and it looks like we are going to have to pay to have the branches cut on our side because they are touching the roof of our house again in several places and are over for a minimum of half the deck. Both of which are potential issues that could cause damage to our property and that would not be good.

[@kegman83]

Luckily this is why tree lawyers have arborists on speed dial to give you an exact number.

[@chaddeans4549]

I had a karen ask me to cut down 100 pine trees on someone else land, Im glad I asked lol

[@DeepDishPizza]

I few years back, my neighbor put up a fence and didn’t even bother to check the property lines. I didn’t say a word to him and just took him to court and they forced him to either remove the fence and pay $10k or keep it up and pay us $80k. He kept it up and payed us $80k. Then we put up an even bigger fence.

[@PhoneOffAlex]

That great deal for both parties. They, probably sign something to not plant in that area. Now value of that inn may be greater by 3 million. And trust reacher by 2.5 mil.

[@phlodel]

My brother-in-law had some huge oak trees cut down on his ranch. They were cut and stacked for firewood by Caltrans crews for Caltrans supervisors. My brother-in-law sued and won. The settlement? The value of the trees as firewood.

[@JohnMcClain-p9t]

I've got about sixty acres of woods behind my house, and I'd expect at least that much, if someone chose to cut them down. I might even bury them. I'm sixty six, and I'm not living long enough to see my forest return if someone took it down.

[@sherryware]

In Bellingham, Washington, there was a hill behind our house. A developer cut the trees and built a subdivision on the top of that hill. Giant Douglas firs drink a lot of water. No trees left so our yard and driveway turned into a river. It flooded the nearby intersection and froze in the winter, causing traffic troubles. The city held us responsible and so we had to install drainage pipes all over our yard. Trees do so much more than just stand there and look pretty. They are a whole ecosystem, especially in a forest group, and especially in the Pacific Northwest where it rains so much. A year ir so later, I ran out and stopped one guy preparing to cut down a tree on my part of the hill so the "up the hill" neighbors could have a view of Bellingham Bay!! Glad I caught him in time.

[@BeastlyMussel61]

They've been cutting trees down up here in Lynden citing safety reasons and now some houses are under constant landslide threat.

[@sherryware]

@@BeastlyMussel61They need to consider the consequences of taking down trees in Whatcom county. Trees drink up thousands of gallons of water and it will have to go somewhere if the trees are gone. It's so irresponsible.

[@Excalibur-Sonic]

Ohhh Rslash would love this treelaw stories are so good.

[@jeffmccrea9347]

If the inn denied wrong doing, who did it? I lived in Florida for 27 years. Down there, there was so much clear cutting of pine forests in the 1970's for home development that the law now says that if you want to cut ANY tree, even on YOUR property, if it is larger than 4 inches in diameter, 4 feet up from the ground, EVEN IF IT IS DEAD, (to keep people from killing healthy trees), you have to get a permit for EVERY tree AND you have to plant TWO trees somewhere else on the property if possible or some other place agreed upon by the county, for every tree cut down. I worked for a company that changed direction and wanted to build some concrete block rental buildings on unused land on their property. They cut 52 trees and had to plant 104 more to replace them.

[@TheFishingPilot]

we have a tree on an abandoned lot (in a trust with a family in the UK and unreachable - even the property tax records show it as unknown with $20k due in back taxes) behind us that is dead and risks falling on to our house. If it falls, we are on the hook to pay for the damage with the option to sue the owner of the lot. However, they are overseas and unreachable.

[@UncleKennysPlace]

In our state, a registered letter to the owner-of-record is all that is needed. I had the power company tell me that a tree was split, and unstable; that obligated me to cut it down, at great expense.

[@TheFishingPilot]

the tax records for the lot has the county courthouse as the address. I will look into that though. Thanks for the tip.@@UncleKennysPlace

[@brettpeckinpaugh]

You can put a dollar value, you can buy old trees in many cases and the cost is INSANE. I am curious how many were cut down, an oak tree that is old could be 750k on up on it's own.

[@OONKyo]

AT 4:10 ish in the video you mention how we have all seen a nice patch of forest butchered for whichever reason. I've seen it plenty of times. Once however I happened to be working in maintenance at a large outlet mall, The Outlets at Birch Run. The mall was rapidly growing and in the middle of the place was an old industrial building on about 2 acres which was largely wooded with some old growth timber. The mall bought them out and the building was demolished. The woods sat there about six months then in one day they came in cut the whole property and chipped it entirely. All that was left was an enormous pile of steaming chips. For that entire day we had all manner of wildlife running around the mall property. It was shocking how many animals were in that woodlot.

[@kencar8961]

Ben grabing a sword to protect his trees. Lol

[@jameslockard6956]

I wonder how much it would cost to transplant full grown trees to the trust property. I have seen Casinos plant full grown trees to landscape the Casino property. If that 2.5 million could replant everything lost I'd replant to aggravate the Inn😊

[@MrMonkey209]

Could save some money by paying for a wall or some giant billboards to block the view. Buy a nice car with what you got left or something and still have some left over for saving, investing, or debts.

[@AB_anonhominid]

NEWS FLASH!!! Land owner puts up a series of large bill boards advertising Menemsha Co visitors bureau. across from nearby INN who had previously allegedly cut down trees on site...

[@joannekearney5329]

Apparently in NJ there was a similar situation...where someone cut down trees on their neighbor's property in improve view on NYC.. in addition to having to pay the owner of the land.. I believe they also violated town ordinance... and there was a high cost per tree...so they paid both the land owner and the town.

[@arsenicjones9125]

Steve that tree law is interesting. How does it intersect w the fence law allowing any property owner to fence their property? If my tree falls across our shared fence does the part laying in your property no longer mine, am I allowed to retrieve it, or is my neighbor responsible to return it to me? There just seem to be a lot of intersections of trees and fences that would butt heads in the law in interesting ways.

[@sammelven6240]

The people that physically cut down the trees should be charged for the unlawful act.

[@unijabnx2000]

what if the tree is on/near the property line... if it falls on the other side... do they own the part of it that is on their land?

[@mumblesbadly7708]

Love it! Justice for the trees!!!

[@gasad01374]

sounds like they could have gotten alot more than $2.5M

[@toolman1990]

They could have gotten a higher judgement amount and received $0.00 when the parties involved filed for bankruptcy protection to discharge the debt. It is better in some cases to take significantly less than what you are entitled to if the amount offered is immediately collectible.

[@usseg]

Always possible. Also could have been a lot less. It is what they both agreed on.

[@darkguardian1314]

A warzone is hyperbole... Saw dust, noise and heavy equipment is a disruption. Seems the lawsuit was at a loss to the landowner. The Inn is very arrogant to do that to others property with disregard. To them, it's the cost of doing business and they don't have to pay the full amount of the settlement. After four years, it might have been getting too expensive to continue.

[@dannytravis7118]

You're correct about locust trees are dense heavy wood and it does make good fire wood and also it's very rot and bug resistant and makes great fencing posts. Beech wood burns much much more hotter. About the locust also blooms very early in the spring is a favorite among honey bee's. About five years ago I had to have a wild honey bee's colony removed from my house. What the bee removal guy told me that when the colony split, the split off portion found a way in behind my siding and made a nest there probably because I have a large field with clover and a lot of locust trees and both are high sources of nectar the bee's need for food.

[@chadmckean9026]

regarding the tree falling on your land and you owning the fallen tree, do you own the entire tree or just the part of it that landed on your property (assume natural felling; eg storm)

[@debidraughn8862]

Guess now they have enough to buy a big tall wall and some new trees to reblock the view !!!!

[@patrickday4206]

The trouble with tribble 😂

[@tperki2322]

Menemsha is on the west part of Martha's Vineyard. Pretty area.

[@ThatOldDude-wtf]

A couple of incidents from my experience. A friend found out that someone removed the trees from the property next to a property that she owned, and "accidentally" cut down some of her trees. About 85 of them. Lawsuit ensued, the logger's insurance paid. One third went to IRS for windfall income, one third went to the attorney, and she got one third less the attorney's expenses which included a charge for her copy of the legal papers at $10 per page. Don't let your son in law handle your legal troubles. The other one was some trees that were cut down to improve a rich guy's view. The big problem was that they were in a public park. He blamed the immigrant wood cutter for misunderstanding him. The wood cutter understood English very well. Oh, and the aforementioned rich guy was a judge.

[@ohauss]

Unfortunately, the IRS only considers compensation for direct physical or mental injury non-taxable. Rather silly, if you ask me. In cases like this, there's no profit made - you lost property and merely get the value back. Asset-wise, you're back at the status quo ante. IIRC, here in Germany, compensation is only taxable if it compensates for something that would have been taxable in turn, i.e. income, or stuff you kept around to make a profit with it, i.e. stocks of merchandise. You would have paid tax on that either way, so it's taxed. But trees that you had no intention to log and sell the timber? That's absurd.

[@speckey1983]

The problem with locust trees I have found is the wood is very hard but too brittle I've had too many branches come down from my beautiful black locust

[@chrisduda1974rr]

theres a formula to determine monetary value of a single tree......its super long and takes percentages of health, size, location, and species

[@NurseRobert]

Steve, after they cut down my trees, could I put up a billboard facing the hotel telling the guests what aholes the owners were?

[@lindaward3156]

It's something I've noticed over time that happened at other times but here as well. Steve *just* had a recording about how he doesn't send out threatening letters, and gave great reasons on the why of it all. I swear, it wasn't more than a handful ago. And here he is talking about doing it. Its so weird how this kind of thing occurs.

[@jackieheidorn5875]

I wonder if in addition to the civil damages the perpetrators might be guilty of criminal trespass?

[@MobilMobil-kv5ke]

I found the satellite image of the hillside that was cut down. The Inn definitely has a great view of the water but the foreground barren hillside is unsightly.