Leffen - A Liar and a Fraud

[@loverlover34]

My biggest takeaway from this is that the hbox crab thrower was actually an 8d chess playing martyr who sacrificed himself for the sake of repairing hbox's public perception

[@Parpeing]

ehhhhhh idk if it really did that i think people grow tired of being annoyed at him and they just get over it, me included I will say i wish i could put my foot up his ass when i get hbox-jumpscared and im high as shit lmao, coz it just feels like im getting screamed at out of nowhere and thats not a vibe 😭

[@loverlover34]

@@Parpeing shush

[@kyperactive]

10000 iq plays

[@JayBoogieFever]

It was a time traveler changing the course of time

[@Parpeing]

@@loverlover34 hbox hasnt said anything about leffen and hes hanging out with him now your martyr is so pure c:

[@mats5381]

I do like how he said "Imagine losing to M2K" and immediatly got 6-0'd by him.

[@Uppercut92]

I hold that ass kicking in my heart as a cherished memory every day.

[@yaboi2500]

That’s just what happens when an utterly average player goes up against one of, if not, the best player of the game.

[@Uppercut92]

@@yaboi2500 As much as I hate the guy it’s not reasonable to say he’s average, he’s beat all the big kids, he’s just a shithead

[@MarMaxGaming]

@@yaboi2500 lmao Leffen isn’t average 😅😅 he can be a lying stupid tool and butt head, while being good at melee… no average can beat all the damn melee gods, sounds impossible

[@PabloRodriguez-ov9sx]

Couldnt be me, Right?

[@sethverdan5296]

He went from insulting people for their shortcomings to harassing people for having a different opinion than him, and trying to ruin people's lives. His fans were right. He has changed.

[@lapplandkun9273]

and too bad most of them are delusional to even see that

[@Doc_Fun]

idk if "harassing people for their shortcomings" covers mocking the physically disabled. I'd say he's about the same level of human garbage he's always been, he's just gotten better at hiding it on stream.

[@ecanus-3605]

Lol pretty much like the dreamstans.

[@iorilamia]

He’s always been like that. People are just starting to realize it (or I guess they just grew up… smash players)

[@Killopotamus]

@@iorilamia People realizing bullying isn’t okay (and also maybe regularly having parties with underage people around + alcohol/weed) lmao I’d definitely say we’re growing up. That said, It’s ironic that one of the oldest members in the community is backing up Leffen/Jisu spreading shit though

[@ninjafrog6966]

The fact that leffen once said “imagine losing to M2K” and then got 6-0’d by him is a legendary L for leffen

[@skyguysZ]

By all 3 of M2K's mains too.

[@Revcube]

@@skyguysZ i just watched the video of him getting wobbled on Peach and staying Peach and getting mad and sad. if this man treated every opponent like this. he would be the best. he was wearing the same uniform too. almost like that's the expertise he gave up just to shit on Leffen exclusively XD.

[@mlt0403]

Bro turned into low tier god, got humbled real quick

[@xPrecisionx]

Leffen gives the clear vibe of a guy who got bullied relentlessly as a kid, and then Melee gave him a small amount of power, and he started becoming the bully.

[@StarmenRock]

or someone who never had to grow as a person because he got respect for playing a kid's game pretty well amongst a sea of socially awkward losers. he was the pretty boy of smash for a while too. its the same with money, its ok if you're a piece of shit if you're rich.

[@xPrecisionx]

@@StarmenRock Did people actually consider him a pretty boy? He looks downright ugly to me lol

[@JudgedMentalMusic]

Kinda like every so called liberal today

[@Bessux]

Sounds based. What's the issue with that? You take power where you can get.

[@Herme5]

@@Bessux I agree, your mom loves to take my "power"

[@blazaybla22]

This dude is the embodiment of “some people have never been punched in the face, and it shows.”

[@VaporeonEnjoyer1]

Exactly. Next time he's at an event he needs to be challenged to a boxing match. That way it's not assault, and he loses either way. Either his ego gets broken or his jaw gets broken.

[@TheSpaceComputer]

We want both of that happened

[@handleunavailable]

Bro that applies to any pro smash player lol

[@Rockastorm]

@@handleunavailable not hbox

[@takeshiedwards6523]

@@handleunavailable no it doesnt

[@purplehaze2358]

Arguing with Leffen is a lot like trying to play chess with a pigeon - y'know, knocking all the pieces over, shitting on the board, and flying away as if they won.

[@Whitesnake273]

If Leffen was a Jojo character he would definitely be Diavolo, always lurking and conspiring in the shadows, with an overinflated ego and wanting to get rid of either that which annoys him or traces from his past

[@bigtoblerone8446]

After what just happened when he lost to Hbox for the 1st time in over 2 years, trying to attack and invalidate Hbox's character again... He really hasn't changed. This video was 10 months ago and he still hasn't changed.

[@IronFreakV]

Guy will likely never change unless he has to - but I doubt his narcissism would allow him any meaningful introspection

[@queuedjar4578]

I think the "air time limit" thing was simply just salt and johns. Leffen has acted maliciously but this specific thing I don't really see any further intent in it.

[@justsomeweirdperson]

its also crazy that he wants to limit airtime when its a big part of what makes smash unique

[@aro528]

He would have lost even with whatever mystical air time limit he was cooking within his john-driven mind

[@BMANZZS]

i know those types. never takes responsilibity for any actions.

[@zetsun0]

Leffen is like an alternate-reality LowTierGod's trashy online persona where he's successful at fighting games and has a higher social reach because of that.

[@Flip-a-dip-dip]

If LTG were actually good at video games. He would just be African American Leffen

[@crackededge9351]

@@Flip-a-dip-dip IDK, his salt is on another level from Leffen, even if he was good at fighting games the FGC players would not sweep all his mistakes under the rug like the dumbass Twitter smash community.

[@dangdung9811]

The thing is with LTG rn is thar he's keeping himself away from his old persona and he's actually doing something to make a change. Leffen, I'm not too sure about.

[@ParodyAccount_]

@@dangdung9811 nah ltg still rage quits, says "bbc" this & "racist insult" that. He ain't changed lol

[@crackededge9351]

@@dangdung9811 Leffen has the same narrative, neither of them want to change. They’re like the abusive spouse who swears up and down they’ll finally stop drinking, they go to therapy, and still come home drunk and violent regardless.

[@always_serpico]

The Hungrybox fiasco is the best example why people consider the Smash community pathetic. They welcome and uplift pieces of shit, liars, groomers, and bigots- but will crap all over someone because of a character they use.

[@SharkSprayYTP]

Hbox being the villain in the smash community is crazy to me, Hbox is super fun, charismatic really good at the game, passionate about it and has become the best with a character that most people are awful at. To me he seems like the kind of guy youd want at the top. as opposed to leffen, the entitled mouth breather who probably shouldve been punched 1 or 2 times.

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

@@SharkSprayYTP 1 or 2 is generous lmfao

[@Narrator1]

@@SharkSprayYTP Hbox's only real crime is playing a defensive character and winning in a meta where 90% of everyone else is playing the same fast-falling, in-fighting combo monsters sliding across the screen.

[@juniperrodley9843]

@@Narrator1 People spend countless hours working the typical playstyle because they see it as the only way to win. When HBox wins with an atypical playstyle, they start freaking out because him doing that implies (in their mind) that they wasted all those hours. They perceive it as an attack on their efforts. It's basically what Ian Danskin dubbed the "Angry Jack Effect".

[@danang5]

@@Narrator1 can you even call that a crime tho?

[@heartnet40]

Remember kids: You can get away with anything as long as you play a sick Fox in Melee.

[@coldeed]

What actually killed the smash community, pedos, leffen, and unwashed morons thinking both those things are cool.

[@yungmuney5903]

The fact that Salem was actually on to something REALLY says alot about this community.

[@gee_kaz]

Tbf if you’re really good at something like not just good but one of the best in the world at something people are willing to overlook it even if you’re a PoS. Like in sports for example a lot shit people that get away with the stuff they did just because they’re really good at something

[@coldeed]

@@gee_kaz That's a modern time thing. People actively used to hold people accountable for being a POS.

[@snoppdoog4921]

@@coldeed def not

[@isawayto]

As a member of the Tekken community im glad to say we did not welcome his toxic behavior

[@Daltemir1]

Aah yeah, the community where the best player of all time tells someone to stfu because he claimed that guest characters get more players into the game (which is statistically true btw). How was Leffen not embraced by this community.

[@supersonicstyleatsonicspeed]

Was he permanently banned from the community?

[@yupjuliansje]

As a member of the tekken community i disown you of your tekken community status, you're a liar and a fraud.

[@isawayto]

@@yupjuliansje 218 people disagree with you. Also, you probably suck at tekken. As does your boyfriend Leffen. :)

[@handleunavailable]

All the top Tekken guys are more toxic than Leffen lol gtfo

[@WFunGuyW_3]

I feel bad for all hungrybox has been through. He tried so hard to be the best, became the best, and then was treated like an outcast for it

[@cheesy6122]

yeah I dont understand why people were on his ass so much

[@TheRealSorav]

@mai u enjoi I really dont like mango. Great player but such a huge ego on that guy. The dude acts all cool on stream and makes all the teenagers on his stream cream their pants. Its really something that only works because Smash has such a young player base. We deify top players way too much, it aint healthy

[@Kjernekar]

@mai u enjoi so...children basically?

[@Uzi0celot]

It was awesome to see him win with the puff!

[@beanz4799]

@mai u enjoi damn

[@ventolivre6945]

As one of Kensou's mods, I can tell you just how annoying it was having to deal with all the Leffen fans trying to strat drama in his chat. It's just exhausting to deal with.

[@t9t9t9t9t9]

cry about it :)

[@sievert289]

@@t9t9t9t9t9 good one

[@t9t9t9t9t9]

@@sievert289 thanks :)

[@fruwuitloop]

@@t9t9t9t9t9 cope

[@killerbug05]

I genuinely can't imagine being that petty and drama hungry 🤦

[@rpgtimefire]

"The tekken community defended itself successfully against leffen" we for sure did. The toxic shit that used to go on in tekken vs each other might be worse then leffen.

[@laughingman7467]

Online Tekken literally put on the "cheese-shields", to keep him out and make him sore and salty from going farther in. I only knew about him when mainman covered it.

[@ShadowedAgony]

lol what’s wrong with the Tekken community?

[@rpgtimefire]

@@ShadowedAgony nothing big but aris would roast leffens soul. Main man level of snarky obnoxious would make leffen look like a well behaved child. Frame whisper level if sarcasm would make leffen look like a straight forward talker. Knee old level of toxic competitiveness would make leffen seem like the most friendly casual player. The saving grace is even tho all this might be true These people aren't as toxic as leffen as a whole but they have toxic qualities that can be very polarizing.

[@ShadowedAgony]

@@rpgtimefire your comment doesn’t make sense. You compare them like they’re worse and then say they aren’t lol.

[@rpgtimefire]

@@ShadowedAgony parts of something can be worse then parts of other things but not worse then it as a whole. Example. Dominoes has the worst crust but id still rather eat Dominoes over lil ceaser cause even tho lil ceaser might have better crust Dominoes as a whole is better. Also i could say these are small negative quirks of these people but leffen as a whole is trash.

[@sunbeames]

Once is an accident. Twice is a coincidence. Thrice is a pattern.

[@khaoticpolitics1494]

What's four times?

[@sunbeames]

@@khaoticpolitics1494 I'd say extremely sus.

[@ascaredmilipede7971]

​@@khaoticpolitics1494Four is a habit

[@muffer62816]

@@ascaredmilipede7971five is "im enjoying this alot"

[@zwabTheRealOne]

@@khaoticpolitics1494 3+ is a line on a graph.

[@TehFoamy]

Imagine being new to Guilty Gear and telling a Chipp expert with years of experience that he doesn't know what he's talking about lmao

[@Mustang_Click]

I mean Leffen did just get 3rd at EVO…

[@jalonridley6975]

Yeah what place did this guy get? Prolly worse than Leffen

[@TehFoamy]

@@jalonridley6975 I can't believe I need to explain this but Leffen isn't new to Guilty Gear anymore

[@gerardoperea914]

@@TehFoamy What kind of take you made? First saying he is prolly mistaken for "correcting" Chipp player, and then justifying him that he isn't new anymore?, That was kinda weird

[@vDeadbolt]

@@Mustang_Click on strive. Let's see Leffen play a game like Xrd or XX Accent Core and see if he can replicate that success. Strive is slowly becoming the smash of the FGC because of how easier the game is compared to the others.

[@phabiorules]

"If Leffen got to choose between world peace or Marth not being in melee, than fox would have no losing match ups." -Sajam

[@MizManFryingP]

Never heard of Kensu but man, what an introduction to who he is. I wish more people in competitive games acted like he does.

[@chronosanaki5174]

@Jelly Punk I totally Recommend Guilty Gear Strive or Plus R. Xrd is also really good but it doesn't have rollback netcode like the other two, so it'll be a bit frustrating to get into if you decide to jump in online.

[@leithaziz2716]

@Jelly Punk Give Strive a shot. Goes on sale frequently and player retention is pretty good. Just watch out for the lobbies. They are buggy and you may grow to hate them. I'd also recommend Xrd as it's my fav, but as mentioned above, the netcode aint good.

[@Ms666slayer]

@@leithaziz2716 Also the game takes like 5 mins to load because servers XD

[@leithaziz2716]

@@Ms666slayer That got patched actually. They tend to take 1-2 mins at most nowadays.

[@Gweivyth]

@Jelly Punk Kensou is honestly fuckin GOATed, guy is one of the most level headed people on the internet. We had a guy I went to college with who he reminds me of, and I often attribute me sticking with Melee to having him around.

[@masterchief416]

And this is why the MewtwoKing 6-0 Leffen is pure gold.

[@spicy1615]

the most deserved sweep in HISTORY

[@monarchy028]

“Imagine losing to M2K” The M2K in question:

[@kylethompson4543]

It's actually frightening how much crap Leff has gotten away with relatively little action taken against him. How anyone can still support this guy is mystifying to me...

[@fred6o]

I support him bc he’s good ion gaf about his behaviour

[@Thorozak]

Yeah I don’t support a man who’s extremely toxic to others, who cares how good you are at a video game just don’t be that way. People idolize him cause he’s a villain, but that’s too cool for a petty manipulative man

[@akallstar5]

@@fred6o I mean you can watch him, but support? Why support? That’s fucking dumb lol what a waste

[@EE-ky5nt]

Leff makes some people money. Money over morals these days. Sad.

[@coolyeh1017]

It is mostly down to the fact that many in the community think he has reformed. which is true to an extent. He went from dissing disabled people (calling people "retar**ed" to just regular trash-talking and banter. He was also a hot-headed, arrogant guy with controversial opinions but that is nothing the grassroots Smash community is unfamiliar with. Look at the origins of the grassroots movement since Nintendo refused to be involved in the early days. It is one of those "it was always like this" things and to many it seems like localized incidents of bad people being bad people. It is just that Leffen took it too far and so he was banned. When LEffen came back many did comment that he was nicer, more polite, and constructive in his criticisms which to an extent he is. You can hear his explanations of why something was going on, so on its face, it wasn't the problem. Leffen starts crap, drama happens, drama is resolved so many didn't find it as an issue. Additionally, many liked him for his personality, though interestingly enough I think there was a poll is that younger persons who joined Melee more recently liked Leffen. So it could be a combination of people not really knowing of his older actions much (I mean Leffen talks about his ban and time he was really bad and owns up to it) and immature audiences being drawn to the heel-like personality Leffen extrudes. However, even now he is pretty chill with the gods, respectful to TOs and casters, complements many of the professional players so to many casual viewers it doesn't seem that Leffen is doing anything out of the ordinary. Plus when initial coverage of the scandals over a year ago happened, Leffen got many SIGNIFICANT points from people, even outside the FGC community that he is fighting the good fight for victims of sexual abusers. It is hard to refute that sort of thing, especially among the high fervor of kicking out supposed criminals (only saying supposed since none of them were criminally convicted, yet). Or it just could be the celebrity status thing. I mean there were many people who excused Chris Brown for beating up his wife (which is ALOT worse than anything Leffen has done) or serial killers getting love letters from people.

[@raimarulightning]

This dude has always seemed like a loser to me. Nobody that tries to make fun of people that much is ever a solid person. Never passed the vibe check once.

[@ForeverLaxx]

Leffen is the type of person that gets high off their own presence and looks in the mirror if he wants to see the "most attractive person in the room." He drank his own kool-aid, and what's worse is that he's actually skilled so it just feeds it even further. He comes off as a DSP who can actually perform and it's revolting.

[@patientfourtwozero2714]

@Fundamentally Unorthodox ahahaha. you absolutely plebeian. All you've done here is proven that you also don't pass the vibe check, cos your a moody little poser. Pretty dope car and selfie there by the way.

[@FromsoftgoatKaj]

@Fundamentally Unorthodox Leffen D rider spotted

[@sere971]

@Fundamentally Unorthodox this is just a "you can never call anyone toxic ever if you insult someone, even if it's because they insulted others too much" argument. It's dumb and convinces nobody, and it's obvious you're only making it because you like Leffen despite the awful shit laid out in this video

[@raimarulightning]

@@sere971 Yeah, it's a fun one

[@christopherspencer2143]

We live in a bizarre world when HBox can take so much shit for basically nothing at all, and yet people can stand being in the same room as Leffen.

[@bailujen8052]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHmle2qrirJpfsk

[@Amaling]

With Hbox, he used to be MAD toxic and just not a nice person not just publicly, but to people in the scene. Combine that with his gameplay at the time, it’s not surprising that the big people in the scene were not a fan of him. Now, his gameplay I guess is not as campy but most importantly he’s actually matured as a person along with those people who dragged him, people can forgive.

[@bailujen8052]

@@Amaling yes people can forgive. Even if he doesn't change

[@ItsDannyio]

Don’t get me wrong, I like Hungrybox, but he used to be an asshole. He’d constantly flirt with women at events while he was in a relationship with somebody else. He’s clearly changed for the better nowadays, and people definitely do shit on him for no good reason, but some people don’t like him for an actual reason; his past. I personally think he’s redeemed himself though

[@MilkyCao]

I echo the statements of others. he didn't deserve the hate for the way he played, but the way he acted towards my friends in the past makes me not really like the guy, even if he's changed i don't want to have much to do with him (tho by all means, if he's changed then yeah by all means enjoy him as a creator, i just don't wanna do much with him)

[@inplane9970]

It's incredible how this video aged even better (Or worse in Leffen's case) after a whole year. This guy never learns and it's staggering how anyone supports this nobody.

[@thephilosopher7173]

Looking at his twitch right now is a lot lower than before. I'm not too familiar with Twitch tbh but it seems like he's losing w/e support he had back then, by a lot.

[@inplane9970]

@@thephilosopher7173 Surprised he still has a platform to stream on considering the shit he's done. It's only a matter of time until he does something stupid again and it makes headlines.

[@thephilosopher7173]

@@inplane9970 Lol I wouldn't be surprised.

[@noahanderson984]

​@@inplane9970 that's all he's looking for though. More publicity to promote his image

[@Revcube]

its not staggering. it makes sense sadly. People love assholes, this asshole is also a world class fighting game player. its stupid but it makes sense.

[@supernebula101]

That shit with Kensou is the funniest thing, because he's been a diehard Chipp loyalist for almost 15 years, and has stated before that even in versions where the character is bad, he still plays him and tries to DEVELOP the character rather than play a few dozen matches and decide "Yeah this character's trash, D tier for my KZbin tier list video"

[@brreakfastYT]

Usually if someone who is toxic and finds success, they don't correct their behavior because they don't perceive it as a negative. They view people that call out that behavior as weak for having basic empathy. Imagine having that big of an ego for being the sixth best guy to ever play a 20 year old party game.

[@ungravedbones5826]

Id say he is number 10

[@nathanael9159]

Indeed. (Apart from the "party game" section i do not agree with.)

[@krazy1574]

well it may be a 20 year old party game but you can make money from it

[@nathanael9159]

@@krazy1574 Yes.

[@ziwuri]

@@krazy1574 The point they're making is that he's not that guy. He's not *that* important in the grand scheme of things. He's gotten too much validation from a relatively small and socially awkward community and his ego has swollen to the point of no return.

[@brianb2308]

I appreciate the fact that someone in this community is still trying to keep these actions in check. Twitter does a horrible job. Good thing I don't have an account or look at it, like ever. What a joke of a social media platform

[@Flip-a-dip-dip]

Yeah Twitter is pretty awful. Gave up on that a while back

[@grunkleg.2934]

Twitter, especially Smash Bros Twitter, is just Lord of the Flies IRL

[@TheRealSorav]

@@grunkleg.2934 The Smashboards days were alot better

[@metalmadness1001]

It’s pretty good for porn though 😂

[@caeluse]

@@metalmadness1001 facts only reason I got it

[@billthesecond6301]

He literally has psychopathic traits. -manipulative of friendly to him people (fans, other competitors and "friends") -huge ego -states he doesn't like drama but always creates it -tries to make others look awful when being confronted -twists points -apathetic towards others

[@CTomCooper]

When Hax dropped his video essay on Leffen, I thought this was pretty much what he meant. But, yea. He kind of really exaggerated in that first go around.

[@thiccandridicc]

and?

[@lukethekuya]

Hax was always right.

[@cdogthehedgehog6923]

None of those were psychopathic traits. Maybe arguably apathy, but not caring about people you dont know isnt psychopathic lol. You just described an insecure ass. That's what he is, and trying to incorrectly diagnose him is just goofy.

[@AL-lh2ht]

@@CTomCooper "video essay" is a funny way of calling a multi hour schizo video where he called leffen a literal nazi. the video hax admitted he made during aa drug induced mental breakdown.

[@bexvital11]

"your opinion is invalid because you cant wobble correctly" is something he would say

[@marthbrooksMCBS]

The fact that you released this while he’s competing at Summit 12 is absolutely goated.

[@komos3719]

20:52 Audio cuts out about here until about 21:45 just so you know

[@Underr4t3d]

Lip Reader Needed!

[@miketusz131]

Is that some dmca shit or what's up with that?

[@Abigdummy4life]

​@@Underr4t3dtime to bring out our Sharingan (Copy Ring Eyes), bois

[@TheDetonation]

Calling Leffen a trash person is an insult to trash.

[@ChibiKeatonegg]

Would it be legal to call him a black hole because he sucks so much?

[@Zekken_The_Lodestar]

True. Even trash is better than him.

[@foxshinehiyaa3933]

Bro at least the trash have better takes in Twitter then leffen

[@undeadmyth9977]

@@foxshinehiyaa3933 At least the trash just accepts it when i gets dunked on lel

[@GlitchanBlack]

To call Leffen wretched would just be an insult to the word "wretched!"

[@DisDatK9]

This is a perfect example of why I don’t enjoy or use Twitter. It’s somehow found a way to become a platform entirely based around bullying; and whoever has the largest following immediately wins. What an absolute shit show that dude is

[@johnnickfanaccount3492]

Leffen is one of the very few players with an audience that is actually funny

[@bigflea11-ig8jr]

Don't think too closely about what you said, or you might realize democracy is slavery

[@press_x_tojason]

@@bigflea11-ig8jr Trump voter?

[@Fpl8646]

Just a few months ago, during the Smash Melee inv, after he lost to Hbox, he took the mic on their stream to say a long drawn out piece on why the community should change rules to nerf the Puff play-style. Keep in mind that Hbox was on a longgggg losing streak against Leffen prior to those 2-3 loses. Now suddenly we should change the rule set. 😂😂

[@senounatsuru6453]

And now he won strive EVO with Happy Chaos. NOBODY FUCKING CHEERED.

[@Whitesnake273]

AND THE CROWD GOES MILD

[@vitrus75]

AND THE CROWD GOES HOME

[@ShaunInce123]

Leffen got booed

[@EclipsingMomentum]

Tons of people cheered. Did you watch the video? Or is this just the Internet thing where every comment has to completely agree with the videos position

[@Whitesnake273]

@@EclipsingMomentum Tons? Good joke

[@Robeebert]

9:20 this is called the Gish Gallop. when one interlocutor sprays out so much falsehoods that it would take their opponent far too much time to correct them on every point. a common low-tier debate tactic.

[@Jackaroo.]

Indubitably.

[@piedpiper1172]

The best reply to Gish Gallop, no matter the debate topic, is always: “Gish me harder, Gallop Daddy.” Much less effort than the response they’re trying to bait, and routinely sets them off balance.

[@user-to9ge8ii9n]

"Mmm, that's it babe, Gish in front of everyone for me." ❤

[@jennywakeman5049]

Gish Gallop isn't exclusively pertaining to falsehoods. It's applicable if statements are true as well. The general point is either making so many points they forfeit all their speaking time to deconstructing without making a point themselves, or they miss one or two and saying "YOU DODGED THIS!" If you ever watch Destiny debate, you'll see it immediately where he just never shuts up on a tangent then says he was in control of the entire debate because they were having to dig up counter evidence for everything.

[@sagirem]

Oh and ZeRo also said that Leffen was the worst person to harass him, even mocking ZeRo when he was on an hospital bed after attempting to kill himself

[@Wandermidget]

I'm surprised that you glossed over on how Leffen has tried to throw M2K under the bus numerous times, the most noticeable time was when everyone was getting charged with sexual harassment. Leffen has never liked M2K for reasons unknown and targets the guy whenever he can, but doesn't do it often since M2K is basically Melee's sweetheart, and you can only go so far in regards of bullying a guy with Asperger's. He slandered M2Ks name, and just got away with it completely. Baffling. Even his "apology" mostly doesn't count as one when you read it twice.

[@thefranChise1]

I glossed over it because M2K wants to be left out of this

[@Wandermidget]

@@thefranChise1 fair enough

[@mikelonduckguey]

I wouldnt say its for unknown reasons; leffen shits on m2k for the same reason he shits on everyone else, he's a clout-chasing 14 year old trapped in an adult's body

[@watchmyshoes22]

"everyone was getting charged with sexual harrassment" WHAT??? I must have missed something because I have absolutely no idea whatsoever what this means...

[@Slaking_]

@@watchmyshoes22 last year a _lot_ of smash players got outed for sexual harassment, grooming, abuse, just a whole lot of horrible shit, even paedophilia in some cases. In that shitshow, M2K got accused, but the accusations ended up being disproven.

[@Iyokuu]

I'm 100% glad you put Kensou's situation in here because not enough light was actually shone on it. You were right on the money when it comes to this weird feeling that others in the community feel like they have to protect Leffen/look the other way, & it's incredibly messed up because Kensou isn't some no name in the FGC. Especially Guilty Gear. It pisses me off that so many mutuals between him & Leffen didn't speak out on anything to call Leffen out on how wrong he was. The only person I saw do anything was Latif and Latif just came back to the scene. He told Leffen real quick that Kensou was literally the mastermind behind all the Chipp knowledge in the last couple decades, then Leffen left the chat because he got proven wrong. Like come on, dood. Great video that's definitely worth the watch. That song at the end though? Need that on a single track so I can bump it on stream.

[@Lewt_2B]

I don't think people want to fight with Leffen so they just go with whatever he says. Best thing to do honestly is to ignore him completely. His opinions are baseless anyway, look how he tried to shit on +R and Xrd because he wasn't good at those games but good at Strive. KOF XV will be his next target to shit on for sure. He already said that it's not worth 60$ because the graphics aren't as good as Strive and plenty of people on KOF twitter ridiculed him.

[@egrassa1480]

@@Lewt_2B especially when kof15 package is much more complete than strive. Strive real price is like 40$

[@leithaziz2716]

@@Lewt_2B See, this is an akward as someone who didnt enjoy +R much compared to Strive, so maybe there is some merit to his enjoyment (he brought up the loopable oki issue in GG and I get where he's coming from there). The problem is when someone tries to shit on one game for another. the 60$ take is pretty stupid, but it's pretty clear what he means is that KOF doesn't "look" like a 60$ game in the sense of it not looking "next-gen" or pushing boundaries. He's not talking about content at all. Of course, at the end of the day, I dont like Leffen, so dont take this as me defending him. Nothing justifies him acting that way against Kensou.

[@leithaziz2716]

@@egrassa1480 Strive goes on sale for 40$ pretty often, so its pricing seems fair. I disagree with Leffen, but im not gonna pick sides and rather keep things healthy.

[@egrassa1480]

@@leithaziz2716 ? It being on sale doesn't mean its not a 60$ game. Its not about picking sides, thats what i believe in. Strive package is not enough for a 60$ game. Regardless of Leffen opinion.

[@F4ust-crw]

Have to say, Kensou is the man I want to show people on how to be a human when it comes to handling with toxic people. Mad respects for him.

[@Veserius]

Kensou stole SBO(the most prestigious japanese event at the time) tournament spots from other US players for years because he had a hookup with the arcade who was in charge of the qualifiers. At times a winning player would be replaced with Kensou even if they wanted to go, or the qualifier wouldn't be ran and Kensou would just be handed the spot. In 2010 a 1st place qualifying team was unable to make the event, and the 2nd place team wasn't even asked if they wanted to go, but the 3rd place qualifying team was sent(because it had Kensou). This actually came to a head eventually a few years later when a team won a qualifier flew out to Japan, and they didn't actually have the spot because the arcade had once again done shady things. I've had one personal interaction with him where we played a set in person and he just kept calling me random and dumb as he lost to me. He might look good compare to Leffen, but he's no saint.

[@ExxodKing]

@@Veserius dang, really?

[@MarioMan847]

Another thing I wanna add to this is about Leffen's apology to Mew2King. Back when Hax released his evidence.zip video, Mew2King was starting to call out Leffen about how Leffen maliciously spread false rumors about how M2K sexually assaulted someone. This actually caused some people in the Melee scene to start questioning Leffen's motives and intentions. And that's when Leffen privately apologized to Mew2King. This REALLY didn't seem like a genuine apology. It seemed like Leffen only apologized because he knew that M2K going against him would be really bad for his public image in the Melee community. If he was ACTUALLY sorry about spreading those M2K rumors, then he would have apologized about it long before Hax released his video. It really seemed like damage control rather than genuine accountability.

[@mds_main]

Yeah, it's a shame that M2K fell for that shit

[@janmarcoperezbatres2203]

The fact that for 1 he made a PRIVATE apology when he made a PUBLIC accusation says enough. Its like shouting "Hey he did a bad thing" and then whispering "Jk" to the affected.

[@mds_main]

@@janmarcoperezbatres2203 Not to mention that in 2020, when he falsely accused Zero, and the latter went to their private chat to confront him on why he was accusing him, Leffen not only did not respond, but publicly published a screenshot of the chat to further mock Zero. If only M2K did the same to him, oh the irony it would have been.

[@coolyeh1017]

@@mds_main Thing is that M2K, despite his idiosyncrasies, is a really nice guy. He wouldn't even think about doing that and just move on.

[@senjoFan69]

@@mds_main yeah and it's a shame too because m2k is one of the few people who could have called leffen on his shit and brought attention to things

[@MangoSmoothy]

He was definitely bullied in school while he kept thinking in his head how attractive and cool he is, really gives off desperate energy

[@feshpince7181]

He's always reminded me of this kid I grew up with who would take every opportunity to talk shit, laugh at others over dumb shit, and bully people, but as soon as anyone actually challenged him he'd either get his ass kicked or run away like a coward. I imagine Leffen would act like a big man until someone actually wanted to beat his ass in a fair fight. Just saying, witnessing him with a broken nose would be magic.

[@Icemario87]

Honestly seems like he was never bullied.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Someone who got bullied would never ever be able to act like this child.

[@bluedistortions]

People who were bullied don't bully. He comes across as never being told he's wrong.

[@johnnickfanaccount3492]

I doubt he was ever bullied, youre clearly projecting and this makes me think that YOU were bullied

[@dinglepuss8594]

GOD i hope this catches the algorithm

[@GSEleven]

It has his name and unfortunately he is in summit, so it's likely.

[@burkebrittain1073]

Good news

[@SGK..]

Yea it’s hitting

[@dank_tomatoes1165]

Just did

[@james9564]

It did

[@cheeseoh]

The amount of leffen fanboys defending him in the comments 🤣 you're literally providing his point of him saying you guys treat leffen like his in the right all the time

[@CrustaceanJames1]

As a member of the tekken community, if we kick someone out you KNOW it's bad

[@Sockren]

is the tekken community really that bad? the only people ive seen that play tekken are pretty nice

[@CrustaceanJames1]

@@Sockren that's what I'm saying. We don't just kick people out like that

[@bigboycomedyv2]

@@CrustaceanJames1you an elected representative? lol

[@CrustaceanJames1]

@@bigboycomedyv2 trust

[@logandunlap9156]

let’s not forget that it took literally all the smash gods retiring for this man to finally win big, man’s always been kind of a loser

[@march.7561]

I mean, he could beat them, but he would never have gotten as far as they did, I don't think.

[@TheDragDavid]

I mean this is just not true, he was the first of only two people to ever beat all of them and was arguably on the way to nr 1 in 2015 before his visa issues

[@shortyboymoran483]

@@TheDragDavid Mew2king had that mans number for far too long for him to actually ever be #1.

[@lasagnahog7695]

@@TheDragDavid he beat them but was never top. upsets happen

[@Velox921]

​@@lasagnahog7695 No way you just said that 💀 We can say he was toxic af but you can't take away from him he was 2nd in the world almost 1st, just behind armada, he was at one point stronger than most gods

[@SoulsOnly]

My question is when TOs just see Leffen's behavior and they don't just permaban him from all events. Absolutely vile behavior.

[@jon....]

Because Leffen is such a prominent figure in the community that he is basically immune to being banned by tournaments at this point.

[@OrchidEleven]

because they're all corrupt. leffen helped raise the profile of melee players with his dodgy red bull deal and his reach. all those disgusting money hungry fame hungry Americans who wanted to be eSports so badly "we eSports now!!" got what was coming to them, now they're all nothing and melee is dying

[@twistedvtuber9894]

From my experience with TOs, it's honestly an issue of viewership. Leffen in your stream gets views, and does get more eyes on your event. It's shitty, but thats just the game of twitch

[@OrchidEleven]

@@twistedvtuber9894 Americans only care about money

[@totalawesomeness2310]

Unfortunately the only way to stop Leffen would be to go back in time and permaban him when he was just an arrogant shit-talker starting beef with no way to back it up. Now, however, he draws in his herd of an audience and on Twitch, more viewers means higher advertisement, means more visibility, means more money, so, Leffen, for as shit as he is, is a revenue source, a reliable one at that. I want the guy gone as much as any reasonable person, but he's got a good hand

[@KickMoon23]

He’s a sociopath. A minuplator who’s fully aware of what he’s doing, calculating it all in his head beforehand. Yet he’s unable to control his childish hatred, his massive ego, and somehow doesn’t realize he’s displaying these emotions to the people he’s trying to manipulate.

[@Eaode]

i always hated when ppl said "it's a meme, leff is just playing the 'heel' aka a villain for community narrative purposes." Like bruh u ever ASK someone before you turn their life into a vortex of harassment to build your own clout???

[@oliviahughes3158]

The "heel" bullshit is the only reason the smash community at large keeps him around. The "storyline" is so important to keeping these communities alive in the eyes of these TOs and Twitter assholes that they're willing to overlook everything that he's done

[@inplane9970]

I've heard this "heel" argument ever since the competitive Smash community has existed and Smash's instance is a guideline of what not to do. *Throwing insults and being an insufferable asshole is not being a heel.* Heels have to be lovable and, to an extent, nice and accommodating outside of the "show." Their shrewd and usually rambunctious personalities are strictly for entertainment and within boundaries of their competition. In cases where that is how they would normally act, they should still know when to stop and know moral boundaries. Leffen never knew that boundary, and let the community's perception of him leverage his actions until he became unhinged.

[@dikasmusha6194]

no idiot then he wouldn't be a heel would he

[@inplane9970]

@Kyse Ok. And hes been suspended from any kind of fight shows ever since he tried to bite the hand that fed him. Whether or not its justified, it still proves my point. Dont be an asshole and create drama. Deal with your issues internally instead of letting emotions take total hold.

[@totalawesomeness2310]

Unfortunately that community has Stockholm Syndrone with this fuckwit. He's been NOTHING but a detractor, and having other communities outright reject him on name ALONE should be more than enough to have people realise that the narrative isn't worth over a decade of abuse and violence... He's not being a 'heel' he's being an insufferable dick that should have been an ACTUAL villain for the community that we want gone, but they're all so obsessed with the latest beef, or are victims of the bloody hierarchical structure of top players just ratio-ing anyone they disagree with, that he physically cannot be made to leave.

[@sleepzy3816]

It's weird how the FGC has villains like DSP and LTG that everybody loves to clown, but when it comes to Leffen suddenly it's a no go.

[@Freefork]

You can clown them with no backlash. People will actually clone anyone as long as they get no consequence nor if it is deserved... case in point Etika.

[@DD-fs7pg]

It's because Leffen is actually good thats why. When he shit talks people listen because they think her might actually have a point. Plus Leffen is way better at manipulation. DSP and LTG are both mediocre at gaming and most of what they say are legit meme phrases.

[@mirror2922]

I will actively keep anyone accountable so long as I am aware of it that is, this doesn't apply to just the FGC but I've always found it kind of disgusting to have behavior like that over some damn pixels on a screen. The way I see it what happens in the game stays in the game but whatever comes outside of it is your own responsibility. Its kind of wild how obnoxious the behavior is and I wish they were more active about it. People like that are the EXACT reason why no one wants to even touch the fgc with a 7 foot pole, even worse is the handling of actual problems. Not saying you gotta be the greatest personality on earth but some people really lack the ability to be civil and it shows...

[@Icemario87]

the community is strictly more toxic than Leffen and when Leffen displays his toxicity, it gives them psychic relief and makes them feel more normal. also, when people point out Leffen'a behavior, it makes the toxic people feel judged and scrutinized, so they have to defend him out of self-preservation.

[@GekkoOne]

@@DD-fs7pg I don't know about LTG but it is a criminal overstatement to say DSP is even mediocre at gaming.

[@DavidZakuzaRyutashi]

If only we lived in a timeline where ChillinDude 5-0'd Leffen...things might be at least a little different.

[@mee091000]

Yeah.... ChillinDude let us all down lol

[@9yugin5]

Nah man, Leffen once got 6-0'd by M2K in a tournament and didn't even flinch, the guy defies reality.

[@dikasmusha6194]

"if only the worse player won so my feelings weren't hurt"

[@christopherpho9424]

@@9yugin5 At the time M2K was still a top 10 player while Chillin dude during the 5-0 was more of a top 100. Leff's pride would've seriously been shot if he lost.

[@9yugin5]

@@christopherpho9424 still he was known as the GodSlayer, but he got destroyed. Tbh the fact that he came back stronger is a mark of a great mentality as a player, but this same mentality never humbled him enough to stop being so obnoxious to the FGC as a whole.

[@AFO666]

hi, 2024 viewer here, since this video leffen has won evo for ggstrive but has had the whole carpet pulled under him as far as community support goes (as far as ggstrive). Idk what he is up to currently but just adding context as, well, he still exists.

[@yep8673]

Found out about Leffen when he tried Tekken 7. Its insane how his community defended him and sucked him off when it was clear to anybody who plays Tekken that Leffen did not know how what he was talking about and was at a beginner level when it comes to knowledge.

[@FireDarkNinja]

He literally only got good ranks due to fighting game fundamentals and prior experience. He then started to cry about stuff because the game is massively complex. Like in that Lars clip he simply cannot understand that was a mid and then blamed it as cheese. He’s got such a massive ego that he can’t accept that he can be beaten by people. He’s like LTG but his success has allowed him to be more confident but he’s just become more manipulative instead. I think he’s a disgusting individual and I’ve disliked him for a long time.

[@DD-fs7pg]

The sad part is that some of the tekken pros actually supported him to an extent, which I can understand since he's a known heel and "troll" and he did make some valid criticisms but the problem is that he thinks his heel persona allows him to trash talk and instigate without any backlash.

[@TheDoor616]

I remember when he tried out Rivals a couple years ago. I'm not a big rivals player but I was in a streamers chat and they were talking about leffen's opinions and he was just talking shit about the game based on two hours of experience and people were just fucking accepting it

[@roberteriksen6434]

Only saw Leffen once through that one video review of T7 as well, and honestly I'd agree more in that video than with TMM as far as I remember, as a T7 player. I didn't know at the time that he was a massive scumbag though. This is probably the point where we disagree, but i totally agree with Leffen that T7 encourages cheesing though. The bloating, the suppression of key information until you search up on it online and the complete lack of a competent tutorial is just unforgivable. The example he chose was nice as well i felt: If you don't know how to break King's Shining Knee, there just isn't any way of learning it until you TURN OFF THE GAME, go to the INTERNET and GOOGLE it. This pushes the opponent towards cheesing - he is relying on you missing key information you need to defend yourself, and is encouraged to keep spamming it until you quit the game. Cheesing might be hard to define, but we can focus on how a game deals with cheesing mechanics instead to determine wether its encouraged or not. Another game could discourage it by providing the necessary information to the player. In his example, a tooltip for breaking SK AFTER you got grabbed keeps you informed in-game without giving any player the advantage over the other, UNLESS you are relying on cheesing.

[@ankoasmr2510]

@@roberteriksen6434 I can tell your ass at Tekken. Get good.

[@Eclipse_0313]

It sounds really stupid and immature for me to say, but Leffen is the kind of person who would probably never learn his lesson unless someone just beat the ever loving shit outta him.

[@GSEleven]

I wasn't going to respond but I thought about it for a second, he was banned ALREADY, came back and is still bad. So even though I would hate to see that happen to someone I formerly respected, you may just be correct.

[@coolyeh1017]

@@GSEleven all his ban did was make him realize there was a line you couldn't cross, which was target and insult certain people. Trash talking other people in a general sense? Sure that is fine. Trash talking a community? The is fine. But calling actually diagnosed people mentally challenged or even reta**ed or bullying children? Nope that is the line. I think his ban made him slightly better but only very slightly. I still think he is a misguided hothead whose ego is inflated though when in the presence of others like in Summit he is much more tame and controlled.

[@JustTryHard_Juth]

the closest thing that happened to that was m2k totally destroying leffen and i wish that something similar happens in the future

[@edwinatwell7423]

@@coolyeh1017 The only thing that changed before and after the ban is that Leffen no longer uses f*ggot, the n-word, or r*tard. And I will stand by that till the end of my days.

[@dewwwd3431]

One can only hope maybe someone could at least scare him enough to know that he’s a fragile little gentile and his words won’t be able to defend him

[@Lilybun]

I ran into a person who behaves almost exactly like leffen, dude has a tight knit circle of ego strokers that ignore all the toxic behavior even when theyre subjected to the abuse too. Its crazy how that kinda people just keep getting away with it. Maybe id get it if these people were like 12 but they are grown adults, its wild

[@kerputnick]

It's probably due to first response. Let's say you're a normal person, polite, you converse in socially acceptable ways. When you first run into a person like Leffen, it's going to go one of two ways. Either you're shocked, but learn to adapt to their unusual behavior, or you actually don't accept the person for who they are and refuse to acknowledge them. Most people, I would say, are more in the former when it comes to something new and are willing to accept the person w/the idea that they are just "different." It's this idea of acceptance that blurs the line with each new thing that person does. Basically, when you let in a little crazy, it can build into a big crazy before you know it.

[@bcndooz3294]

My school is riddled with nasty students like Leffen. You don't get used to them

[@CrayZgunZ]

Leffens demographic is exactly like how he is. People that can't take an L. People that are never to blame. People who weren't raised with the values of others around him. Grown ass kids.

[@j.w.213]

@@kerputnick or they are 25 year old people with the mentality of a 12 years old, more reasonable!

[@thisisobviouslybait]

@@kerputnick You don't even know that outside of this little circle of autism that's just how alot of normal people act. This diatribe is written like an outsider observing society who thinks they understand human interaction but is completely off the mark. It's astonishing. This comment section is like being at the zoo and just staring in amazement at rare exotic animals.

[@ashamedtuber344]

Honestly the Tekken thing annoys me so much. Like, just because you're good in one game, doesn't mean all of that information will carry over. Yes, with fighting games, any kind, from platform fighters to Tekken, certain things do carry over from game to game, like mental game and loosely some aspects of neutral. But, it seems like Leffen forgot that it took time to learn Smash. Melee is a singular game, when Tekken hasn't changed much in terms of overall identity in twenty years. I recently started learning Tekken, jumping from Guilty Gear: Strive and XRD. It's fucking hard. But I find the game just.. fun to learn on it's own right. Sad to see that people can't learn and instead want that instant gratification from a fighting game.

[@GekkoOne]

It's a classic DSP-ism- "I can't win so game sucks"

[@hteety]

I hate Leffen as much as the next person, but when he started Tekken, he had already had experience in a number of other traditional fighters as well. While Tekken isn't exactly a traditional fighters, concepts from his time in DBFZ and GGST do actually transfer pretty well into Tekken's neutral, frame-data based gameplay, and the combo game that changes based on counterhits, punishes, etc.

[@Love-Sensibility]

I would say I hate SF at one point cuz I kept losing but then got an easy victory using Sagat when I played on the school's computer just days ago!!🤣🤣

[@Top10-z8c]

I got banned over 1 month in whole eu, cause i wanted to use the same neutral skin as Leffen in an online eu tourney where i played against him, there was no rule so far. He just was salty, that i took a game from him. So Leffen just said my behaviour would be toxic and everybody agreed cause it was Leffen and at this time, he switched the narrative that he has done so much for the community. That shows how much force he had. Til today i got a lot of haters, just cause of this one action from him.

[@vddxr7240]

ty for reminding me about the leffen tekken time period, shit was so funny. i remember dude was legit crying for like 30 mins straight about how bad the game design is because he didnt understand what a high crush was

[@evstar2645]

I’ve always disliked Leffen. Not because I’m a long time HBox fan, but because he manipulated this community. This documentary is perfect for an in depth analysis of Leffen’s vile acts. I hate cancel culture, but all of his motives and actions are worth shutting down sponsorships and views

[@Parpeing]

Ok, so, 1 i dont think its hapenning, its not like there hasnt been already a ton of people tryna do it. If you wanna go after him you have to go after tsm and they dont care, so then go after tsm's sponsors, do you really think you can impact TSM MONEY? obviously not 2 hbox and leffen are actively burrying the hatchet so mayyyybeee keep your idols accountable too 3 most of us know what he did, we dont like his personality but his gameplay is pristine, I want to see him play but we have enough amazing players as is, I could do with or without. The only manipulation really happenning is him towards his own fanbase, the rest of us know his deal and we just keep our distances. Nothing will happen imo, if u wanna do smth, steal his visa, that might actually affect him.

[@dirkthewrench]

I never understood the hbox hate, I watched a couple documentaries and they never really say why he's hated other than his character choice and play style, and that early on he was a bit of trash talker (as everyone is/was at some point) Is there something I don't know? There has to be an actual reason other than that, surely Edit: I haven't watched the smash docs in awhile, so maybe I'm also misremembering

[@Neogears1312]

@@dirkthewrench It's literally just because of his pop offs. Man was a college student with few friends working a fulltime job all while balancing his smash career. When he wins it really matters to him. Everyone finds it "unsportmanly" or annoying so combine that with the fact he did that on a campy character and everyone just instantly wrote him off as the bad guy just like the capcom community did with Justin Wong, another famously amazing player who plays very passive.

[@Stryfe52]

@@Neogears1312 Ah, so he’s “Hungry Badguy” even though he does nothing wrong? Man can’t even pop off in peace…

[@dirkthewrench]

@@Neogears1312 man that's dumb, I thought there had to be some justification for the levels of hate he gets, that's just awful

[@AviorGloria]

The smash community's ignorance is astounding. How are they still ok with advocating with this guy?

[@Whitesnake273]

There's many people who don't like him, it's the fact he keeps holding on to TSM and because he mashes buttons masterfully

[@Why_does_this_exist_YouTube]

Because the main person he insults HBox, plays Jiggypuff. That is it

[@MrDeldris]

Birds of a feather flock together.

[@smarockRB]

Keeping Hax banned is honestly one of the dumbest things the melee community can do. The man devotes so much time and effort to advancing the game, explaining advanced techniques, on top of his work on the Boxx to give people with hand problems an option so they can keep playing the game. And yet we’re going to ban the guy that cares about the game as much as anybody to defend someone who’s actively poisoned the community on multiple occasions? Sounds logical. #UnbanHax

[@Neogears1312]

You'll be surprised and depressed how far people will go to defend a toxic relationship. It ain't logical but it's hella realistic that people will just let people be evil, and when someone objects to it, treat them like the villain and not the one who's actively ruining them.

[@remember2variate968]

Right there with you man Hax cares so much about Melee, he deserves more than this

[@georgeliquor1236]

Maybe if he didn't schizo post, people will take him seriously.

[@WTH1music]

Alongside the leffen stuff he said some pretty delirious things and came off as unhinged. That kind of person makes people at an event uncomfortable and is potentially dangerous to himself/others. People downplaying his mental health are really doing an injustice to people are really struggling with these issues (like hax$)

[@FFXfever]

Leffen can be an asshole while Hax can be out of his fucking mind. They're not mutually exclusive, Hax needed some therapy before going back to the spotlight.

[@ZeldaFanZordecai]

He has serious ego issues. I used to give Leffen the benefits of the doubt, used to. My own toxic experience with him isn't why I stopped, but this happened prior to the public drama and after seeing the public drama and looking back on it, I have full confidence he was just being an egomaniac to me now. One day I was in his stream watching him play NieR: Automata and he was making numerous complaints about the game being boring and easy? Okay, this is a fair complaint, but it stuck out to me because he was literally NOT using the entire Chip/Memory system which is a core system which includes modifying attacks and stats and all kinds of things, adding shockwaves to moves, changing combos, giving and altering counters, time slow, tons of stuff. So I tried explaining he should pay attention to his chips and use the chip system since he is finding the gameplay boring. Long story short (I made sure to be nice, and sincere) he still met it with immediate rejection and hostility, furthering saying the game was "shit" and basically that he shouldn't "have" to use the chip system for it to be fun? Like, really? He even condescended to me and had his mods time me out. I didn't get aggressive at all. It was a shock but I said oh well and took it at the time, thinking maybe he just didn't have the time to put into the chip system. But now with everything coming to light about his ego and toxic personality I have pretty much no doubt he was just salty that someone mentioned he was complaining about the gameplay, while ignoring a key component of gameplay.

[@Hibernial]

Twitch is full of unhappy sorts of people. Not really a surprise there.

[@mvjbass9561]

He approaches every game he plays like the most condescending, close-minded game critic. The NieR Automata example is funny to me because he berated me just because I said that I enjoyed the gameplay lmao. I didn't even say it was good or anything, just that I enjoyed it. The idea was so offensive to him that he had to call me stupid.

[@saltyluigi4011]

leffen has pretty bad twitter takes too

[@trouncerrredits]

hello there!

[@trouncerrredits]

new tinfoil helmet btw

[@BarbarossaSC2]

This is why the Smash community was treated like a joke for so many years by the FGC. You have to hold your players accountable.

[@roundabout468]

Doesn't help that it's like half pedophiles

[@totalawesomeness2310]

Guess what, even after the great righteous purge, they still don't, so, back to being jokes I guess. At least the actually decent people are funny as shit and, well, decent people.

[@DeMoraJS]

I'm a casual fighting gamer and let me tell ya, this is how I've felt about the Smash community for some reason, and it is precisely because they enforce no accountability.

[@SuperCatacata]

Are you seriously implying there aren't clowns like this in the rest of the FGC? That's just a lie. Leffen is literally in the FGC now as a top GG strive player. The rest of the FGC has always been toxic as fuck when it comes to smash players. Endlessly bullying a community who is able to support it's own games without company sponsorship.

[@mikedavidson6454]

@@SuperCatacata the cope is real lmao

[@T.R.E39]

thefranChise: Begins to talk about Leffen's ego Me: begins to vibe to Driftveil city music

[@Sweetluckk]

Leffen’s ego is huge , even when he started at melee his attitude has been the same as you see in this video , the truth is regardless of how toxic leffen is , he HAS a following and just like how this video states multiple times , it’s his greatest stength and defense over the internet , him and others like him are out of control and it’s tainting the community with a worse rep then it already has .

[@Ralkila]

The problem that i see is that most top players in melee which are like 10 right now that 3 have appeared... is that 90% of the player base are pot monsters and they never fall from a top 16 much less a top 8. They are never challenged and they can grow their ego to the sky. There is a reason why leffen have not entered full into traditional fighting games given that he do understand the basics of it, cause there is actual professional killers of the games and from many countries grinding hard to beat you up. He is not dumb he is not going to be spending his time in games where he knows he isn't good enough. DBFZ can be seen as a special case given that its basic stuff is more than casual-friendly, and somewhat the new GG is following the same path. So i don't see leffen as a ego maniac but a kid that is popular in a classroom cause he has new shoes but he is the bullied kid in the yard by older boys whenever he tries to play basketball instead of his stuff.

[@shikarixox1195]

@@Ralkila Lol Was that last paragraph suppose to make Leffen sound like an innocent victim who is popular amongst his peers but bullied by others for no reason?

[@Ralkila]

@@shikarixox1195 I'm telling that he is inoffensive for the FGC, only a problem for their sphere where you all convert him in a infallible saint. He has a sure characters and top 8 in smash even pretending to care for ultimate, but he will never grind in games where he has to face actual international / asian killers. He is a little brat cause the smash scene let's him be a problem. He is basically using the trump scheme to ignite his base.

[@CaptainFracture]

It will never cease to amaze me how unnecessarily toxic leffen was when he played ultimate. After every tournament and during them he’d keep constantly talking shit about the game or the players. Good riddance, so glad he gave up on the game and the community has been thriving since.

[@kettothespymain8955]

Leffen crying cause Ultimate isn't as janky as Melee

[@heybro6302]

imagine being a GROWN ASS MAN upset at a mario game. Imagine life really took you down THAT path lmaooooo omg.

[@name8329]

Ult is a baby game

[@yurifairy2969]

@@name8329 Leffen is a man baby, should be a match made in heaven but nope

[@emanueltheodorus1056]

I love how he complains when he lost to Bowsercide twice lmao

[@Dyce03]

I genuinely cannot understand how tf people thought leffen was a good guy or truthful in any manner. Its common knowledge in the community that leffen is toxic and has been common knowledge for years to anyone that wasn't brand new to the community.

[@joetheseventeenth]

melee has gotten a little bigger and so these people think everyone in the community was a happy go lucky person or something. leffen literally made his name off being a villain. yet theyre still surprised lol.

[@kryticalhits7385]

they think he's great bc he's not racist or homophobic or a pedophile, not a high bar lmao

[@johnnickfanaccount3492]

The toxicity was funny tho. The guy who made this video clearly has a bias and is making video game arguments out to be more than they were. Leffen was playing the villain because that's his character and it's fun. He takes outstanding opinions on purpose

[@wesjuice1124]

@@johnnickfanaccount3492To me its to the point where he’s just an opportunistic asshole trying to create drama and issues. And that’s the best case scenario because I really dont think he’s a heel because its a character.

[@johnnickfanaccount3492]

@@wesjuice1124 ok

[@reinareinhart]

20:53 it looks like the audio got muted?

[@Rayeloy13]

I literally got banned from leffen's chat BY Leffen himself because he was whining about Sekiro being a shit game because he was bad and couldn't kill a boss, then I tried giving him advice and telling him that I did not agree with the game being bad because of the reasons he gave. I was an avid fan for like 6 months, I stopped watching him after that, because I realized that all the videos and talk about him having changed was bs.

[@LHSMeleeClub]

thats unfortunate :( crazy how he shoots himself in the foot like that by banning ppl like you over dumbs stuff

[@setsers1]

My Condolences

[@lapplandkun9273]

imagine banning someone for disagreeing with your opinions and can't accept the fact that they're new at the game

[@agentg9910]

Sekiro is legit trash

[@JagerSouji]

Oh look a kid who can't time his parry on bosses moves and call the game trash appeared

[@Qvartz_Lite]

My respect for Hbox grows with every second

[@Spiritnick]

Man suffers so much because of the community's image of him, and yet earns nothing but ire and loathing for all he accomplishes. A true modern tragic hero.

[@bigannoyingbanana1365]

@@Spiritnick he seems better today. 4K twitch viewers + general less toxicity

[@Spiritnick]

@@bigannoyingbanana1365 Oh. How nice to hear his reputation's recovering.

[@finiraelkhami8251]

@@Spiritnick Yeah, I regularly watch his videos, and see little to no toxicity. The crab event really was a blessing in disgise

[@totalawesomeness2310]

Hbox used to be a massive problem, he definitely wasn't a pleasant person a few years back, where he and Leffen could be chucked in a similar boat... but nowadays it's entirely different, I watch his videos all the time, usually his stream chat isn't too toxic and he's actually addressed this shit numerous times, so, it's great to see there are still people in that community capable of introspection and personal growth

[@InhumanLambent]

To this day, it's impressive how such an obviously shitty influence can be ignored, tolerated, and even venerated in the scene. His immaturity and toxicity aren't even hidden, he's known for it, but he's still respected for whatever fucking reason. He's good at the game, that's it. I will never understand why he's still around.

[@panthekirb7561]

Cope

[@internetguy7319]

@@panthekirb7561 Seethe

[@totalawesomeness2310]

I've been saying this shit for YEARS... Let's be real the Smash community needs a purge of its top players and said players need a reality check. There are lots of good ones out there, yeah, but one bad apple tree spoils an entire orchard.

[@panthekirb7561]

@@totalawesomeness2310 Purge? What are you, 12? If someone plays well then they compete and play in tournaments. That simple. We need to get back to that old standard.

[@totalawesomeness2310]

I have no trouble with that, if you're good, compete, go ahead Just don't go touching kids, destroying the lives of people you dislike and generally start being a horrible person because of it. That's the standard that should be held up.

[@axr1798]

FYI the muted segment at 20:53 comes from Shinkesu's video: Adressing the Leffen situation from 11:15-14:15

[@BirdUpFR]

Lmao at kensu handling leffen like a child. Kensu seems chill af

[@dwdadevil]

The true toxicity comes from Leffen's fanbase who listens to him

[@shrekstacy]

Very well crafted, can't wait for Leffen to try to ignore this one. As long as these things keep getting reiterated to stick in peoples minds, there will be nowhere left to hide eventually.

[@invertbrid]

Yea since tech video, its about time ppl keep making this kind of video to keep remind ppl so he wont get away with this again like he always did, its been long enough.

[@bondr991]

He literally doesn’t care. He makes big stacks and he’s a top player. Why would he care about a random KZbin video

[@Landmasters]

Close to a year later and shocker, nothing's really changed. Sure Zero got to clobber Jisu in court and send her ass packing, but both party's reputations are largely unchanged. Hax is tentatively getting back in, though he shouldn't have been in this position to begin with. Leffen is at arguably his worst place in terms of competition since 2013, but he's still got massive sway in the community. Proof that no matter how good your data/evidence is, no matter how much you confirm or refute, and no matter how much the other parties condemn themselves there is a status quo and dammit they will maintain it

[@dredgentruth3455]

​@guyledouche5812 Im gonna do you a favor here, no sane human being is gonna take your side on that point. 14 years old. That is two years before the age of consent in most states. That is unapolagetically, unabashedly, pedophilia. It doesnt matter if its legal in other countries. America is not one of those countries. In our moral framework, it is completely unnaceptable. One of the worst things a person can do.

[@GekkoOne]

@guyledouche5812 Well to be fair, we're not in a European country and it didn't happen there. That being said, lying about the situation is still scummy. Hopefully Leffen continues sliding down the obscurity pipeline.

[@GekkoOne]

@guyledouche5812 You misunderstand my point about lying- I was referring to leffen lying about Zero and saying that is despicable regardless of what Zero may have done. The second point is what I have an issue with - it's not geography it's as you said culture and development. In our developed country we have decreed that such relationships are inappropriate- and from what we've seen of our communities lately, I'm not inclined to disagree. Wherever Zero may have come from, he did what we did on our turf, under our law. If you have a moral interpretation that is different, you are free to your subjectivity, but this is where we as a nation drew a line and it's pretty reasonable as per my subjectivity.

[@johnnickfanaccount3492]

​@guyledouche5812idk why people let nairo back in while zero was oh so bad. 19 year old zero mildly 'sexted' a 15 year old for a short period of time while 20 year old nairo had physical sexual relations with a 15 year old boy and blackmailed him

[@zkaine7083]

@@GekkoOne I know you said this all two months ago & I can no longer see what the other guy was saying, but your second response to him was absolutely perfect with or without context.

[@Technicals]

Wasn’t expecting that rap at the end lol

[@imrealfeels3771]

Yeah I'm the realfeels from the twitter screenshot, didn't expect that tweet to still be getting any attention lmao. I just wanted to provide some context for what leffen did in the tekken community. He Came into our community, shit talked it, spread falsehoods about the game, banned top players for trying to help him, banned/timed people for giving him info he asked for, then turned around and blamed the entire community and called us toxic for people who were actually being toxic and saying shit about him and his family (who the majority called out) as the entire community. I am currently banned in his chat for sarcastically saying "sure leffen, the community is being toxic as a whole for no reason, you're 100 percent innocent and do nothing wrong." Irregardless of my thoughts on leffen, I think carrying yourself in that manner is generally disgusting, and I wanted to say as much. He's created the toxicity he suffers from in almost any community he's gone into, and people need to stop being scared to say it. I sure as hell am not

[@obiwancannoli1920]

Leffen is the type of guy to use stall in competitive pokemon and say "can you hurry up?"

[@lapplandkun9273]

To be fair, I would want the person to hurry up if I was a competitive player, as most competitive players built their career on playing. Not being rude, it’s just my career It’s more like leffen is the type of person to laugh at a homeless man when his wife took his kids, his savings, his fortune, and left him

[@TheThugnificant]

The stall metaphor works just fine.

[@MrDeldris]

My involvement with the melee scene is watching highlights and Awsumsauce and I can still tell Leffen is an unforgivable asshole.

[@vla1ne]

Technicals is someone that leffen refuses to respond to, because technicals is a primal force of savagery. Technicals would destroy leffen on any day.

[@mr.exeggutor7780]

Watching this again after almost a year later after just watching leffen lose to hungry box and try to change the rules around so that he can't ever lose again lmaaoo

[@remrelativam9270]

I knew Leffen had cognitive dissonance and hypocrisy from the get, but I never knew it went this deep. Next time a fellow gamer asks what gaslighting is, I have a man and his whole community as an excellent example. I sincerely hope he gets help from a psychologist.

[@tactical-funky9565]

well said

[@Neogears1312]

I hope he gets diplegia in the arms for poetic justice.

[@D_YellowMadness]

A psychologist would just be a way for him to learn to get away with more scummy behavior.

[@r0q]

I GOT BANNED FROM EVO CHAT FOR SAYING LEFFEN SHOULD APOLOGIZE TO ZERO

[@thefranChise1]

#LeffenLiedPeopleDied Edit: The muted portion got copyright claimed

[@justinkimbrough300]

Leffen is gonna say your words are invalid cause your an ice climbers main. 🤡

[@foxmccloud7]

I told him not to main me and also not Falco either.

[@ladjiel]

I found a video about deleted footage on "metagame" documentary regarding leffen past action that make him got banned in sweden, is it actually legit? kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGLPh3dofp5jgMk

[@i3cq]

amazing vdieo #fuckandbanleffen

[@Antonio-fj5gs]

Fox thank u for telling leffen that he can’t main u he deserves it #BanLeffen

[@Moon-nk3co]

Leffen fucking irritates me. People wonder why Smash Bros Competitive scene gets so much hate, and it’s people like him. Your video is very well made and informed. You put a lot of research into it and I respect your dedication. Great video, you earned a sub.

[@Majin10]

They get hate because they’re nerds

[@kumdemon]

they get hate because all melee players are subhuman and inbred. leffen is the biggest one

[@thedarkderp2520]

@@Majin10 that's like 90's mentality man

[@bisho4511]

@@Majin10 I mean if being a nerds means you're insufferable then yeah

[@noidito]

yer its leffen...... not the child predators.....

[@wevegottrouble5891]

It's crazy to hear Leffen say Tekken is the biggest cheese game when Melee stocks have the tendency to literally just be decided off of one read. One read. A single read where someone lands a grab on you and wobbles you. A single read where Marth up-tilt fucks you. I'm not saying it doesn't require skill. I'm not saying Melee is a shitty game. I'm saying Leffen is bashing a game like it's stupid and easy to play once you master 'the cheese' when the game he went pro in for so many years suffers under the *exact* same problems. "What do I do against this character?" perfectly describes the frustration any Melee player feels when they go up against a Fox.

[@httohot]

Nah tekken is cheese incarnate. That same one read death happens in tekken all day at high levels. The difference is that in tekken you have to remember about 300 hundred or so different cheesy setups just to be a medium tier player…Tekken is such a cheese factory because that cheese is available to EVERYONE at low levels making the game inconsistent at low to medium skill levels. I hate leaden but the one thing I agree with him was on how tekken is a poorly designed great game

[@denialfalls2724]

No kidding. So many micro situations in Melee revolve around obscure and weirdly programmed shit. Like almost every stage in Melee has some weird cheese BS, whether it be Battlefield’s ledge, Yoshi’s in general, Fountain’s RNG platforms, etc. for all the shit people give Ultimate, I ultimately prefer it due to the polish (and robust stage and character options, even if the movement isn’t as deep).

[@loyalimperial]

@@httohot just a question for you, if someone were to eat all the cheese coming out the tekken cheese factory, how fast would they die from type 2 diabetes?

[@netweed09]

You can call Melee a crap game you know. You don't have to be and shouldn't be afraid to do so. I don't care about views or people's opinions or whatnot, I don't count any Smash game before 4 to be an actual Smash game. The older ones look like a juddery glitch-fest of crap for pixels.

[@shikarixox1195]

Leffen wasn't wrong about that, but truth is it's literally every fighting game ever. There is no fighting game in history where cheese gimmicks and op bs aren't dominating the game. Smash Ultimate is easily the most well balanced fighting game ever and still a cheesefest cluster fuck.

[@DoubleMallow]

I visited his stream once and told him it was inspiring to see someone from the smash background becoming big in traditional fighting games and it made me think "maybe ya girl could too". He responded "stop begging for attention. That's why I hate e-girls in my chat, don't come back."

[@nuclearcrystal100]

Male gamer moment

[@famulanrevengeance3044]

@@nuclearcrystal100 he may be wrong about doublemallow but he's not wrong in general. there's a ton of 'e-girls' who don't do anything interesting but just say they're girls for the attention it gets them. they're not funny, they're not good at the game, they're just girls and can't stand not bringing it up.

[@CheshireSnake]

Deserved. Ngl

[@nscaocnjs]

Leffen is the kind of person that needed a vibe check in school. Dude is too full of himself

[@dannysummers4591]

he most likely was, but Smash is the only social ladder he was able to ascend which gave him an ego.

[@theremix54]

Hax was always right about leffen

[@ish58]

As a casual fighting game player, FGC drama videos are always funny to me. Why can't people just throw their hadoukens without being awful people lmao

[@WavyJayZ]

When money, fame, prestige are involved, no matter the activity, humans will human.

[@ish58]

@@WavyJayZ lmao very well put. Still though, I'm shocked that something as seemingly innocent and silly as fighting games spawned such a drama ridden community.

[@WavyJayZ]

@@ish58 it's not the games, it's the people.

[@EonTheAien]

I'll be honest though, throw more than a single fireball or projectile per stock, and you'll be called a trash spamming camper by this community lmfao. Part of the reason I'm glad for leaving this community was so I could play my defensive low-tiers without a care in the world.

[@sunessetham627]

​@@ish58 Its the online influencer culture. Internet personalities are treated as absolute beings by a lot of their fans.

[@VaSoapman]

Leffen is what happens if LTG actually gets some amount of skill.

[@mrvna2840]

no Leffen continues to try to ruins people lives for his own benefits,rn LTG just starts beef cuz he has nothing else to do lol

[@LETS_MAKEMCLOVIN]

😂😂

[@Sockren]

ltg is atleast charismatic. leffen is the first battle in a yakuza game

[@croustibatfindus6835]

@@Sockren LMAO

[@mechamahou8467]

​@@SockrenStop using words you don't understand. There is literally nothing charismatic about LTG. He's a meme because he rages, and has supporters who support him solely because he's hated and are contrarian by nature. Not because he has a single shred of charisma lmfao.

[@nicocchi]

It's amazing how people get canceled over nothing yet people still let Leffen be a part of their community. I don't know how y'all can complain that people call Melee/Smash players toxic when you have someone like Leffen representing the community and not being shunned as a pariah. Like it or not, he's a figure in the community so his actions will reflect on us as a whole, but the community also has the power to reject him and say "no, you don't represent us or our values, we don't want to play with you go away" until he actually changes for once (or indefinitely, make an example out of him that this behavior is not okay) yet we've gone for decades without realizing the evidence.zip ban wasn't enough as he continues being a blight on the scene.

[@martymcfly88mph35]

I'm an iiisland boyy

[@WardofSquid]

*Don't let the hypocrisy surprise you* about Leffen. This is the results of literal children and childish adults making the decisions and establishing the moral norms within the Smash community. Literal playground bullies and gossipy cliques make up the top brass of the Smash FGC. Their moral integrity is exactly what you'd expect it to be.

[@IAm-zo1bo]

Why do people decide who is in a community?

[@WardofSquid]

@CryptoMinerKevin Lol, I couldn't care less. But it's really sad that a lot of places have the higher ups acting like children with the petty he said she said Bull.

[@KingOfDarknessAndEvil]

@CryptoMinerKevin This dude unironically said "Get rekt" and is trying to call other people 8

[@Landmasters]

Worth mentioning Jisu lied and conspired against Sky Williams as well, trying to kill any financial ties and starve the man This manipulative liar wrongly pushed conspiracy against 4, maybe more people and that's still okay. Yet because this came from a source they reject/dehumanize it's not ban worthy...cause god forbid we give any credit to a guy we have beef with

[@an_annoying_cat]

"Got no sympathy for Hbox. No one was cheering against him" -Leffen, cheering against Hbox

[@Pysikho]

Tekken Tryhard here....Leffen criticized Tekken multiple times and our whole community laughed at him and basically booted him because instead of just taking the route of getting good at the game he'd rather get shit on by Lars (Low tier character btw) and call him broken. We've been playing this hard ass game for years and have earned our skill, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean its CHEESE or BADLY MADE.

[@fatigued]

Honestly the effort this community goes into defending this guy is insane. Great video man, hope that leffen can be stopped before he ruins more lives with bullshit allegations.

[@yoush3599]

Something I notice on Reddit for example is every single negative post about leffen just gets flooded with mods and such saying stuff like “lol” and then the post gets downvoted or deleted. An entire forum just refuses to see any opposing opinion, it’s pretty crazy

[@doberman_hund]

Zero is a predator, cry more creep

[@goran5844]

@@doberman_hund if Zero is or isn't a predator doesn't matter in this situation

[@nyxranobody3690]

@@doberman_hund ban everyone at that point cause no one is a good person. All your favorites are scum cope

[@Hibernial]

@@doberman_hund SJW’s deserve to be called out for libel and slander, and outcasted. Zero pretty much got cat fished as the sum of controversy surrounding him for Twitter to work with. Real receipts would have gone to court; look who’s hiring a lawyer versus who’s not.

[@TobiDaJoker]

I remember at Get on My Level 2016 my cousin went up to Leffen and politely asked if he could take a picture with him. Leffen literally shoved him and told him to get out of his personal space. From that point on I knew Leffen was a fucking douche, the way he acted was completely unnecessary

[@feshpince7181]

As someone who has had somewhat of a following and experienced people wanting photos, I wouldn't even DREAM of doing this to ANYONE unless they were straight up assaulting or touching me in ways I didn't like. Even if I was in a rush or too tired I'd at least try, or explain why I can't and attempt to make up for it before I leave. Extremely shitty thing he did to your cousin. Meeting people you look up to should be a good experience, and Leffen, as an ADULT MAN and PUBLIC FIGURE should know better than to do this shit. Agreed, he is a fucking douche and always has been. Every time I attempted watching a Smash Ultimate video of his I ended up clicking off annoyed and disgusted with his behavior. He just says and does out of pocket shit all the time. Glad this video was made.

[@TobiDaJoker]

@@feshpince7181 Appreciate your comment bro, it's nice knowing there's a lot of kind public figures out there. I remember at that same smash con, I approached Hungrybox when he was sitting alone and made small talk. I was unaware at the time that he just came off a tough loss and wasn't in the best mood, but even so he was extremely kind and didn't let it show at all. Completely opposite vibes compared to the Leffen interaction

[@johnnickfanaccount3492]

Uh huh and everyone clapped I'm sure this totally happened

[@tappajaav]

@@johnnickfanaccount3492 Thanks for the info, I'll make sure to make most out of it johnnickfanaccount3492

[@aero6104]

Sometimes I just really hope he's immature and doesn't understand how to interact with people without being overly confrontational, but its way more likely that he's downright malicious.

[@aguy3082]

I think that was the hope when they banned him from Swedish events lmao

[@coolyeh1017]

@@aguy3082 wasn't that back when he was in his mid teen years? Leffen calmed down since then but is still polarizing today to say the least.

[@aguy3082]

@@coolyeh1017 The argument would be that he didn't really stop acting maliciously he just got better at masking it and not getting caught.

[@boryontotheleader2328]

Dude is way too old to have such mentality. He should keep it to himself.

[@Parpeing]

@@boryontotheleader2328 Ill be honest he seems like a mentally ill person whos learned to mask through agressivity doesnt excuse anything, im just saying it like i see it, as a person with autistic traits ive had to mask over the years (not through agressivity mind you)

[@bulb9970]

Those Tekken clips were painful to watch. That’s Low Tier God levels of copium from him. What an absolute manchild.