Let's Get A Second Thought... On Second Thought

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The Vaush Pit

The Vaush Pit

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 967
@kirasfavouritehand2365
@kirasfavouritehand2365 2 жыл бұрын
Y’all here havin second thoughts, while I’m out here having third, fourth, and even fifth thoughts
@billyusher4907
@billyusher4907 2 жыл бұрын
Dude slow down I haven't even got onto my first yet
@moonlight-hm4bh
@moonlight-hm4bh 2 жыл бұрын
how 2 to thonk? - research list
@depecher6s311
@depecher6s311 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve had at least 7 thoughts today alone. Y’all aren’t on my level
@Wowhexx
@Wowhexx 2 жыл бұрын
Built Different
@StaggersonJagz
@StaggersonJagz 2 жыл бұрын
I'm in thought debt
@ANGRYYYYYYYYY
@ANGRYYYYYYYYY 2 жыл бұрын
I will say, that second thought pulled me over to the left for good, so i think second thought is doing a good job pulling people to leftist ideas
@ANGRYYYYYYYYY
@ANGRYYYYYYYYY 2 жыл бұрын
@Kremig Mitsahne oh neat thank you for informing me of these new channels i will check them out :D
@olivers.7821
@olivers.7821 2 жыл бұрын
One thing I criticise about him is how he displays Cuba.
@roboticvenom1935
@roboticvenom1935 2 жыл бұрын
@@olivers.7821 Because he's literally a tankie-light I've been in discords with him.
@baibac6065
@baibac6065 2 жыл бұрын
@@olivers.7821 Cuba is the most based country.
@roboticvenom1935
@roboticvenom1935 Жыл бұрын
@Quinzerrak it's a good thing that he's a tankie light? yikes..
@philipfrisk805
@philipfrisk805 2 жыл бұрын
Vaush, absolutely brilliant young man. I'm 80 years old and I always learn from him.
@2FadeMusic
@2FadeMusic 2 жыл бұрын
cool old guy alert ??
@tjfjt
@tjfjt 2 жыл бұрын
Everyone give a like to leftist grandpa's comment!
@Noahthelasercop
@Noahthelasercop 2 жыл бұрын
Weird to imagine a dinosaur watching Vaush
@classiclife7204
@classiclife7204 2 жыл бұрын
@@Noahthelasercop Not so weird when you're 53 like me. :)
@rengiil777
@rengiil777 2 жыл бұрын
@@classiclife7204 The internet must be so fucking weird in your eyes, all the green frog pepe emoji's and constant memes.
@MossCoveredBonez
@MossCoveredBonez 2 жыл бұрын
While I agree JT might be too easy on other countries, I'd still say most of the content is pretty solid. Especially for socialist introductory content
@Molten-Throne
@Molten-Throne 2 жыл бұрын
How many second thoughts can you have of second thoughts? Curious 🤨
@BruhWhyDidTheyChangeThis
@BruhWhyDidTheyChangeThis 2 жыл бұрын
It’s infinite
@manofbruh4471
@manofbruh4471 2 жыл бұрын
4 because 2(first second thought) and 2(second second thought) equals 4
@jonathanard7885
@jonathanard7885 2 жыл бұрын
@@manofbruh4471 I think you need to think twice about that one, chief
@zohar328
@zohar328 2 жыл бұрын
I need to have a second thought about this
@Ramie0Cat
@Ramie0Cat 2 жыл бұрын
Only one. But you can have a second thought about your second thought on second thought.
@Masaru_kun
@Masaru_kun 2 жыл бұрын
exceptionalism doesnt mean believing something is exceptional, its also a belief that being exceptional provides a moral imperative to act above law and other multilateral regulations, like with the US invasion of Iraq
@LimeyLassen
@LimeyLassen 2 жыл бұрын
You're right, the word has two meanings. It can mean "unique" but also "above the law".
@abduktedtemplar
@abduktedtemplar 2 жыл бұрын
I do think a discussion between you and Second Thought would be quite interesting. Maybe help you both grow your audience and strengthen progressive stances.
@jackrutledgegoembel5896
@jackrutledgegoembel5896 2 жыл бұрын
@@EggEnjoyer There is from second thought!
@sotiris2273
@sotiris2273 2 жыл бұрын
@@jackrutledgegoembel5896 so you agree with them??
@bengrimm622
@bengrimm622 2 жыл бұрын
@@sotiris2273 You have stand for something. Vaush just stand against the left. He is a centrist and thus a right winger.
@sotiris2273
@sotiris2273 2 жыл бұрын
@@bengrimm622 yikes
@sotiris2273
@sotiris2273 2 жыл бұрын
How? 🤣
@captain-chair
@captain-chair 2 жыл бұрын
I hope Vaush and Second Thought have a chat, it would be quite interesting. And since you have chatted with Hakim before it would be amusing seeing you on their Podcast as a guest but a leftie can dream.
@firekillerxx
@firekillerxx 2 жыл бұрын
vaush doesn’t like hakim because he’s a “tankie” really tired of vaush and other lefties unironically thinking every ML is a “tankie” and straight up doesn’t understand Marxism-Leninism
@arnigeir1597
@arnigeir1597 2 жыл бұрын
@@firekillerxx Hakim openly admits he's against other leftists, and consistently defends the worst of the USSR and the OG tankies who were for rolling tanks into Hungary.
@СергейКочетов-о3л
@СергейКочетов-о3л 2 жыл бұрын
@@arnigeir1597 what do you mean by "against other leftists"?
@garetroth5683
@garetroth5683 2 жыл бұрын
@@arnigeir1597 Lib
@Oak_Gray
@Oak_Gray 2 жыл бұрын
I would love for a chat to happen between them! I think they'd find they agree on like 90% of each other's ideologies. Honestly the only thing they disagree on is the speculations about what China means to democracy.
@ash12181987
@ash12181987 2 жыл бұрын
I think Vasuh should talk to Second thought on a stream. He spent about 90% of the time agreeing with what the guy had to say, and their disagreements to me sounded like they could literally be semantic.
@roboticvenom1935
@roboticvenom1935 2 жыл бұрын
Second though is a tankie-light goofy. Look how he views china vs US and Cuba
@ash12181987
@ash12181987 2 жыл бұрын
@@roboticvenom1935 Also, Since this video and my comment: 2nd Thought had denied any kind of discussion on rather arbitrary like "Oh I'm above all of this disc horsing" -thing, that was wishy washy and weird. SO there's that.
@ReverendLeRoux
@ReverendLeRoux Жыл бұрын
I think Second Thought has a value system that can be boiled down to 'China Good, America Bad' in a way that's defined as 'capitalism is *factually* incorrect and communism is *factually* correct.' instead of a more moralistic or philosophical stance. I could be wrong, I only have this one video to go off of, but that's what it seems like.
@Jeremy-hx7zj
@Jeremy-hx7zj Жыл бұрын
nope turns out ST is a massive tankie fash who will justify atrocity.
@BruhWhyDidTheyChangeThis
@BruhWhyDidTheyChangeThis 2 жыл бұрын
The issue with US democracy and bureaucracy is that it shifts leadership so quickly that there is no ability to plan ahead and the political and personal incentives don’t fall in line with what is needed to run a successful country. Our obsession with hegemony has allowed us to let infrastructure crumble and people starve. We could be Scandinavia on steroids if we wanted to, but we choose to suck.
@siddharthaperi3490
@siddharthaperi3490 2 жыл бұрын
Organizing for a stable healthy society requires decades to centuries of foresight and planning, something the incompetent jackasses who are corporate leaders and shareholders can't do because they're money hungry on the basis of 0.25 years as well as the politicians who are power hungry on the basis of 2 to 4 to 6 years.
@OGCHUCK1
@OGCHUCK1 2 жыл бұрын
This is why monarchy last longer
@GradyBroyles
@GradyBroyles 2 жыл бұрын
you cannot have a parliamentary form of government in a country that is really made up of 50 semi-autonomous states. And if we did, leadership would change far more often than they do now
@dunkelsteinen1747
@dunkelsteinen1747 2 жыл бұрын
@@GradyBroyles How would the gov change more often if it was a parliamentary one? You do realise that in practicality, congress and a parliament are identical right?
@GradyBroyles
@GradyBroyles 2 жыл бұрын
@@dunkelsteinen1747 in parlaimentary systems the entire government can e fired mid-stream. At any time. In stead of every 4 years we would be voting for a new Prime Minister every time the governing coalition loses majority support. Look at ANY European parliament.
@stephenrose4558
@stephenrose4558 2 жыл бұрын
As someone that is new to leftist politics and ideologies, I just want to say that Second Thoughts channel was extremely influential to me and has inspired me to get involved and to be more informed overall. I think that a lot of people share this same experience with me. I think he’s a fantastic introduction to leftist politics. He is well spoken, has short videos, and talks in a way that can reach people. I just think focusing on the “Tanky” takes is nitpicking and we are doing our own cause a disservice when we do so. EDIT: Vaush has had 2 cherry picked videos to frame ST as a tanky. But anyone that has watched more than a few videos will tell you that praising Russia and China IS NOT a central theme to his content
@TheRepublic4
@TheRepublic4 2 жыл бұрын
Generally I’m against lefty purity testing unless it’s literally a Jimmy Dore type. If you want to build a movement you have to let (some) people you disagree with in on it. To be clear not Tucker Carlson, Jimmy Dore or the fake populists. I was led down the left in order by Krystal, Kyle Kulinski, (Kyle got me firmly socialist) Hasan then Vaush. My focus is economic coalition building with socially progressive elements So basically, Second Thought I think of as an ally who does a net good to discourse and the left! Wish the news was run by people like him and more lefty opinions. Would be very beneficial
@stephenrose4558
@stephenrose4558 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheRepublic4 Exactly. I’m glad Vaush reached out to him and I hope they connect. We need connection, we need communities coming together
@Johnhamsta
@Johnhamsta 2 жыл бұрын
From all the Second Thought videos I've seen, they seem slightly permissive and celebratory of China's mutation of capitalism/socialism
@lurkingposter
@lurkingposter 2 жыл бұрын
Vaush had two cherry picked videos where he agrees with Second thought over 90% of the time. That's not exactly nitpicking.
@nateb7638
@nateb7638 2 жыл бұрын
@@Johnhamsta I agree with your assessment. I like most of their content, but can't get with the state capitalism. I'm down to work with these soft tankie types in the pursuit of train theory but I keep a well salted eye on them too.
@hi__im_zack4890
@hi__im_zack4890 2 жыл бұрын
Being charitable, I wouldn't call second thought a tankie, although some of his videos are a little sussy. I think the main problem here is that second thought focuses his content towards normies. This means that a lot of nuances will be lost. This isn't necessarily bad; for example, it definitely brings in more people and is often a good introduction to leftist thought. However, I feel that newer lefties are more likely to be tankies because of it. I know this was true for me; I learned that America bad, capitalism bad, and socialism good, then it felt only logical to me to look at other countries and blindly accept that because they are "socialist," they are good. It wasn't until much later that I learned that there was a lot of nuance in these topics.
@ForsakenKrios
@ForsakenKrios 2 жыл бұрын
That is where I’m at with this. I started disliking 2nd Thought when he downplayed Jan 6, his Cuba Video, and recently his subtle praise of China. I stopped watching/subscribing 2 months ago.
@jascu4251
@jascu4251 2 жыл бұрын
In a way this is sort of an inevitability if you focus on 'big picture' stuff, its kind of going to be people on 'a team' and on some level selling them 'a different team' - whether thats a) A whole ideology that presents itself as a direct opponent if the existing ideology, or b) a place that, nominally at least, implements that ideology This doesn't do all that much for increasing understanding or making people think, it just kind of has the effect of wholesale moving them into a different category, but without effecting the underlying mechanisms of how they think through things
@MsMoonDragoon
@MsMoonDragoon 2 жыл бұрын
dude unironically said "SOCIAL CREDIT ISN'T BAD GUYS!!!".
@McSqueeb
@McSqueeb 2 жыл бұрын
@@ForsakenKrios wait no way, he downplayed Jan 6? Uhhh
@ForsakenKrios
@ForsakenKrios 2 жыл бұрын
@@McSqueeb he sees it as a way for the USA to spy on us more, turning in your neighbors/friends etc. This was about a month after Jan 6, maybe he’s changed his tone but it came across as, “ this wasn’t a big deal, they got rowdy, now the state is gonna make us all surveilled more!” I want to sympathize with this position but Jan 6 was a test run for a republican overthrow of the status quo. The social ills we would have if republicans got their way seem irrelevant to ST. So long as America goes down, no matter the cost, is the vibe he has given off this year. At least to me.
@hershy1594
@hershy1594 2 жыл бұрын
What he said about our troops is too true. Haven't done a productive thing yet and I've been in 2 countries in the military
@Turnil321
@Turnil321 2 жыл бұрын
Any second thoughts now we have the war in Ukraine?
@hershy1594
@hershy1594 2 жыл бұрын
@@Turnil321 Nope. Was part of one of the units that went to Poland and we still didn't do shit except posture, but that's all that I want us to do because fucking around with a nuclear armed super power is not at the top of my priorities.
@haleffect9011
@haleffect9011 2 жыл бұрын
27:16 "I'd be very surprised if they went ahead with [the invasion], likewise with Ukraine." Well that aged like milk
@tgwnn
@tgwnn 2 жыл бұрын
Fukuyama: *Writes a book titled "End of History"* Us: Wow he thinks history ended? Fukuyama: You're misrepresenting me!
@leroture7750
@leroture7750 2 жыл бұрын
@Gabriel Terrero It seems he's suggesting there is some unique stable equilibrium that human society will reach. Once it reaches that, any divergence, if at all possible, will always lead us back to that equilibrium. In that sense it would be the end of History. It's an interesting idea I'm not sure what his reasoning for why this is the case so I can't disagree with him.
@zenythh8076
@zenythh8076 2 жыл бұрын
@@leroture7750 it's rooted in Hegel and the Kojèves interpretation of Hegel/the lord-bondsman dialectic if you want to look more into it
@Blackgriffonphoenixg
@Blackgriffonphoenixg 10 ай бұрын
people either don't seem to understand the title (it says "the end of history" and not "history has ended") or they don't read past said title (on how it's a book about Hegelian discourse on the title) either way, a lot of people seem to be illiterate.
@BenYork-UBY
@BenYork-UBY 2 жыл бұрын
For me, the litmus test for "tankie" when someone uses China as an example of a "good respectable government that excersizes socialism properly" followed by CCP atrocity apologetics. This can also be coupled with Stalinism/Maoism being used as "good" examples of communist practice and Stalin/Mao apologetics Basically whenever someone is fanatically uncritical the of the Chinese/Soviet regimes despite their severe problems. Thats when I call tankie. I don't think I've seen Second Thought go to the extreme of welcoming the CCP's system of authoritarian government, nor do I see him advocate for their right wing policies. But he does tread the line as if he is buying into CCP propaganda
@jacksmith-vs4ct
@jacksmith-vs4ct 2 жыл бұрын
I don't think he buys the CCP lies but he also doesn't blindly follow the US narrative either.
@Peter-qz3sn
@Peter-qz3sn 2 жыл бұрын
Agreed, well said
@mrtalos
@mrtalos 2 жыл бұрын
He recently downplayed the worrying social credit system in China.
@thanos8638
@thanos8638 2 жыл бұрын
I don't see the problem with being Mao apologist though. Most Maoists just love his revolutionary thoughts and actions. It's just sad that some anti communists have propagandized the Chinese famine in 1958 as a 'genocide'. I think loving Mao is okay.
@thanos8638
@thanos8638 2 жыл бұрын
@@mrtalos he was actually right. Chinese social credit system is nothing like those redditors potray.
@jd7634
@jd7634 2 жыл бұрын
If saying that China is helping out smaller countries is enough for people to say that SecondThought is a tankie. Then Vaush saying that the US helped Afghanistan during the occupation SHOULD be enough for people to say that he's a neo-con. Pretty fucking stupid if you ask me.
@kaosisback8376
@kaosisback8376 2 жыл бұрын
Exactly
@faeroar2251
@faeroar2251 2 жыл бұрын
You know those aren't even remotely similar. It's not at all unusual for tankies to appropriate leftist talking points and pose as progressives, but it would be super weird for a neo-con to spend a bunch of time pushing leftist ideas while occasionally mentioning that the US did something kinda good once. To be clear, it's not apparent from this whether second though is a tankie, but an anti imperialist, would probably have felt the need to call out imperialism here, while a tankie would not, so it's sus.
@jd7634
@jd7634 2 жыл бұрын
@@faeroar2251 Lol 'sus', ok, whatever you say Senator McCarthy.
@faeroar2251
@faeroar2251 2 жыл бұрын
@@jd7634 Ya know what's sus? Posturing intellectualism while choosing to belittle slang terms and make outlandish comparisons rather than challenge yourself or me. Do better.
@ericktellez7632
@ericktellez7632 2 жыл бұрын
@@faeroar2251 My guy, even the worst country you could think of has done something good at least once. China is no exception. And the US is also no exception. Why would someone pointing the good thing China did once be a Tankie but someone who points out the good thing the US not a neo con? Keep the same energy.
@qarsiseer
@qarsiseer 2 жыл бұрын
For me the thing that’s socialist about China that I like is their willingness to nationalize industries and bully the rich. I’d love to emulate that in the US. That said, I’m generally glad I live in the US and not China because of the personal liberties we enjoy here. My economic life might improve somewhat but the tradeoffs are pretty significant.
@goldengears5355
@goldengears5355 2 жыл бұрын
The Chinese government is a like a parent company. Parent companies in the U.S. do the same thing to the corps stuck under their thumb. Parent companies aren't socialist last time I checked and no, the people of china don't have any control at all of who gets to be in power.
@charlieputzel7735
@charlieputzel7735 2 жыл бұрын
They only bully the rich that criticize them, or are otherwise less politically valuable than the headlines saying "Anti-corruption campaign succeeds." It's less to do with anti-capitalist ideology and more to do with keeping up appearances.
@qarsiseer
@qarsiseer 2 жыл бұрын
@@goldengears5355 The Chinese government, while totalitarian and single party, is still elected by and responsible for the people (to an extent). Parent companies in the US are beholden to no one but their shareholders. I vastly prefer some democracy and civic accountability over literally none.
@PlatinumAltaria
@PlatinumAltaria 2 жыл бұрын
Coopting private wealth for the aristocracy is not anti-capitalist, it's state-capitalist.
@ProjSHiNKiROU
@ProjSHiNKiROU 2 жыл бұрын
Phrasing this idea properly within a tweet is such a landmine, just like pointing out the flaws of democacy. “I like the idea but it should be implemented within the bounds of US constitution, not CPC authoritarianism”
@bumblebeeatbreadloaf1286
@bumblebeeatbreadloaf1286 2 жыл бұрын
As far as I've seen most of Second Though's content is basic critique of capitalism which is good. But the way he frames China like a force/ally to socialists is ridiculous and it's also tankie territory. I'm quite sure he's done it in other vids as well.
@benharira1626
@benharira1626 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah man, the second someone even implies that China is in any way socialist you know they are a tankie.
@aspacelex
@aspacelex 2 жыл бұрын
@@benharira1626 There's also politically illiterate people who don't know what the terms mean/have been lied to by the right.
@garetroth5683
@garetroth5683 2 жыл бұрын
@@benharira1626 Can't quite tell if this is sarcasm?
@artonio5887
@artonio5887 2 жыл бұрын
The problem with leftists is that they tend to be completely illiterate when it comes to foreign policy, and they tend to be way too into the america always bad mentality, unrealistically so. Its a dangerous tendency from lefties, because it leads people into the russia/china good bubble, when both these countries are a lot worse than the US, its also annoying because this is exactly what those countries want, both russian and chinese state media try their hardest to turn westerners into west hating idiots. Not that the west doesnt have flaws, but acting like china or russia are better is retarded. I consider my self a pretty left leaning guy, but when it comes to foreign policy id likely disagree with many.
@benharira1626
@benharira1626 2 жыл бұрын
@@garetroth5683 it isn't
@sassyviking6003
@sassyviking6003 2 жыл бұрын
The claim no one takes the prospect of actual war with china seriously is definitely not true. This is very much a real topic of discussion, and a possibility both countries seem to be gearingbup towards. Will it be a conventional war, not likely, but a cold war 2.0 with numerous proxy conflicts, almkst definitely.
@zkapsh
@zkapsh 2 жыл бұрын
It seems to be an economic cold war 2.0, I personally think with biden it semi died down, not to mention there were tones of people who got mad at the who because due to the circumstances of Taiwan it wasn't recognized, Americans have a at best a distane for China and at worst hatred.
@sassyviking6003
@sassyviking6003 2 жыл бұрын
@@zkapsh i would argue against it dying down. Biden is more of a statesman than Trump, but the posturing, if more presidential in nature, is still very much there. Beau of the fifth column has done many videos on this and I tend to agree with many of his assessments that the US is gearing up to oppose "near peers". This means less intervention in smaller weaker countries such as those in the middle east, except by proxy war, and a far greater focus on countries like Russia and China which, while not on equal footing with the US economically or militarily, are much closer to being so.
@zkapsh
@zkapsh 2 жыл бұрын
@@sassyviking6003 I agree my point is more that it's not in the forefront because biden and media/establishment liberal or conservative ignore it, fox News doesn't want to give biden props for something they like, and liberals don't care now that trump is no longer in office. So it's not on the minds of most people.
@sassyviking6003
@sassyviking6003 2 жыл бұрын
@@zkapsh that is fair
@zkapsh
@zkapsh 2 жыл бұрын
@@sassyviking6003 I know I am thank you.
@Delicious_Oreoz
@Delicious_Oreoz 2 жыл бұрын
My brain is still in recovery mode from all these high level thoughts
@zeroperator
@zeroperator 2 жыл бұрын
From what I understand Fukuyama’s claim wasn’t that there will be no more conflict as liberal democracy will now be the only form of government, but that human conflict has progressed to a point where all of it will repeat in a manner of sense and that all conflict will be liberal democracy vs authoritarian reigims, and that democracy will always win.
@bascal133
@bascal133 2 жыл бұрын
China is helping smaller countries out of the goodness of their heart, other countries are too cruel to trap them in cycles of debt UwU
@spaghettimon3851
@spaghettimon3851 2 жыл бұрын
US and its satellite States is still occupying and dropping bombs killing millions in Syria, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Niger, Lebanon and Yemen.
@sluttyMapleSyrup
@sluttyMapleSyrup 2 жыл бұрын
@@spaghettimon3851 And China's still pushing against India's borders in Kashmir, all but literally forcing Taiwan and Hong Kong back under Beijing's rule, acting as a surveillance-state, and "re-educating" Uyghur muslims using Canada's defunct Residential Schools "program" as a template. America bad. China bad. Two things can be true at once.
@spaghettimon3851
@spaghettimon3851 2 жыл бұрын
@@sluttyMapleSyrup Also the soviet famine of 1932 was caused by drought and Kulak sabotage and the nazis did katyn massacre.
@Rensoku611
@Rensoku611 2 жыл бұрын
@@spaghettimon3851 I love how you completely ignored Bacall's comment and proved them right. Chinese imperialism good because america is still dropping bombs, amirite? Literally justifying imperialism/colonialism. Tankies are too brain dead to realize a very simple fact: you don't have to choose between US imperialism or chinese imperialism. You can be against both of these things. But since tankies are not leftists, I don't think they will realize this or care about it. To their mind, chinese imperialism/colonialism is justified and good.
@SlothWindGod
@SlothWindGod 2 жыл бұрын
@@sluttyMapleSyrup yea that sounds pretty good. God I hate most nations tbh
@willdenham
@willdenham 11 ай бұрын
'America is in a more precarious spot than our entire history.' So we were on firmer footing during the Great Depression or the Civil War. Gotcha'....
@Skiltra
@Skiltra 2 жыл бұрын
second thought is the reason im on the left instead of the centre line and by far the first person i watched even before hasan. It seems you cant be a leftist without having all your leftist creators attack or denounce each other, so much unity among the left so much.
@kumareth
@kumareth 2 жыл бұрын
you can thank him for pulling you to the left while also being critical of his flirting with china
@Skiltra
@Skiltra 2 жыл бұрын
​@@kumareth i can also thank the liberals for giving me information about china they apparently are into it although they have a capitalist core to them
@1123elemental
@1123elemental 2 жыл бұрын
I think if you find yourself so far up someone else's ass that you can't criticize them you need to go touch grass.
@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty
@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty 2 жыл бұрын
You're allowed to criticize and question the people you surround yourself with politically. Do you want us to operate like how conservatives do with neo nazis and just focus on what we have in common than EVER question who we're allied with for the sake of "owning" the other side??? Like asking yourself if someone with a lot of influence *might* be promoting *some* bad ideas is NOT the infighting that's hurting the left. If this is too much criticism for you...that's just pathetic frankly. 😕
@BenYork-UBY
@BenYork-UBY 2 жыл бұрын
Vaushs criticism isn't even that harsh. He keeps talking about how much he agrees with Second Thoughts points while criticizing more minor details. And that's fine. It's okay to have other leftists make critical commentary on your own leftist takes. If you want your movement to be pursuing what is right then you need your movement to be able to critically introspect, and/or check itself to make sure it's on the right track.
@gagv4759
@gagv4759 Жыл бұрын
27:15 aged like MILK
@smileyp4535
@smileyp4535 2 жыл бұрын
Just chat with him just chat with him, he's a good dude and wants what's best for America and the world
@jwomackandcheese73
@jwomackandcheese73 Жыл бұрын
If you say Chinese or Russian Hegemony would be better than American you don't want the best for the world. On the surface and for normies Second Thought is a good intro to leftist ideas, but ultimately his ideas are "America bad" while being very light in terms of criticism of Russia and China. He also agrees with Hakim on everything (I've listened to several episodes of their podcast) and it's Hakim and Yogopnik just sitting on America and JT (Second Thought) being like "Yeah we suck, I'm so bad since I'm American". Don't get me wrong I shit talk America but I don't defend other large nations who do bad things because America does bad things.
@rsavage-r2v
@rsavage-r2v 2 жыл бұрын
If you feel that socialism should simultaneously be indefinitely deferred until it can be completely pure and also be put into practice instantaneously when this day comes, have a listen to scholars Vijay Prashad in the video "Is China Capitalist?" and Michael Parenti in Midwestern Marx's Video "Michael Parenti on analyzing existing socialist states". We are never going to get anywhere unless we accept that progress has to be material, and doing things in the real world means they will be incremental, particular, and susceptible to failure. If we defend the positive aspects of socialist projects like the DPRK, that does not mean we have to place them in a platonist category of Eternal Absolute Unmixed Goodness. If anyone does, we should certainly criticize them. I think Hakim was once asked directly to give Stalin a grade, and he gave him either a C-minus or a D-minus. We need to be very clear that socialism is not a religion, it is a science.
@fluidthought42
@fluidthought42 2 жыл бұрын
Scientific socialism? What a novel thought.
@Strongpoint100
@Strongpoint100 2 жыл бұрын
What would you say are positive aspects of north korea then? To me as someone more "centrist" (in a european sense) the DPRK is basically the final form of a stalinist-maoist society and shows what dogmatic socialism ultimately turns countries into. A hellhole with concentration camps, starvation and complete lack of freedom for its citizens.
@kaydenl6836
@kaydenl6836 2 жыл бұрын
I’ll say it again: what the fuck happened? I remember when, can’t remember what video exactly, he talked about how predatory china’s loans were and how authoritarian its security was. And now he seems to have just flip flopped on that for some reason?? And has no problem working with quaks like BayArea. His videos are great, but my god when he misses, he fucking *MISSES*.
@IconicPhotonic
@IconicPhotonic 2 жыл бұрын
AGREED! But overall, I think he is a net positive. Sure, if you troll through his content looking for bad takes, you will find some.
@kaydenl6836
@kaydenl6836 10 ай бұрын
@@IconicPhotonicoh boy. This video showed up in my rec today lol. Things have changed
@trevorturner9733
@trevorturner9733 2 жыл бұрын
This isn’t even my final thought!
@Asterothe91
@Asterothe91 2 жыл бұрын
around 23 mins you make assumptions on his moral claims for the US vs China or USSR i dont think hes saying the US is good or bad. i think hes saying that hegemony is not and that China is on track to be a more stable challenger to US hegemony than any other country before it. which i think is a fair statement. its infrastructure is much stronger, its trade is extremely powerful, its influence internationally isn't deemed as hostile as the USSR was, its part of the UN and thus can influence things that way, its military is massive similar to that of the USSR at its height and its not actively politically hostile to the US like USSR was. not saying this is good, just that it DOES seem to be in line to challenge US hegemony moreso than previous challengers. and that might be bc industrialization enables the disassembly of hegemonies.
@WildSeven19
@WildSeven19 2 жыл бұрын
28:06 Yes, China are helping poorer countries escape American imperialism. That's completely accurate. But it's also in order to get them under the heel of Chinese imperialism instead.
@kholeka8475
@kholeka8475 2 жыл бұрын
How many countrys has CCP bombed recently to get oil-...ehm...I mean to bring democracy?
@alienkatdaddycgs5904
@alienkatdaddycgs5904 2 жыл бұрын
@@kholeka8475 America bad, China good
@neur0transmitter
@neur0transmitter 2 жыл бұрын
Agree. Vaush added "Why? 'cause they're nice" to build a straw man there. Otherwise, both the original video and this one are pretty well made. Hope the debate happens.
@MsMoonDragoon
@MsMoonDragoon 2 жыл бұрын
@@neur0transmitter ah yes because china are totally doing it to be nice and not because they can basicly keep those countrys under their bootheel.
@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty
@Gingersnaps_the_pumpkin_kitty 2 жыл бұрын
@@kholeka8475 how many rights has China given to gays lately? And how many instate labor deaths has the United States stuffed people of a particular ethnicity and religion in lately, refusing to even let them leave the country?? Oh wait that's right, none. Because China is literally just doing everything bad America did while being even MORE capitalist, fascist, and socially conservative. From forced sterilization of ethinic minorities to the over abundance of propaganda to the social fetishization of a particular "ideal class/race" of upperclass heterosexual cis-men they want everyone to emulate. We have those bombings, they have child sweat shops and the current genocide they're conducting. The idea that China is somehow morally superior to the US is laughable as fuck, and they're only getting started. They are what our conservatives want us to be, literally it's just that they don't like the word communism. *Literally America 2.0*
@joshuasalem5022
@joshuasalem5022 2 жыл бұрын
Is he a tankie? Maybe. Does his content turn normies into tankies? Probably not. So I wouldn’t really worry, he’s fine.
@arnigeir1597
@arnigeir1597 2 жыл бұрын
I've seen some people online claim otherwise, so I'm not so sure about that.
@bigboss311092
@bigboss311092 2 жыл бұрын
It is a little weird when he praises communist-in-name countries. But I used to live in one so it's easy to discard those praises.
@milokojjones
@milokojjones 2 жыл бұрын
I don't think that it's as simple as the thing being black or white - what I mean is, that it's not like either you are a tankie or not. I think that everyone is capable of tankie takes - I probably had some too, the question is, whether you can acknowledge that your take is wrong or not.
@IconicPhotonic
@IconicPhotonic 2 жыл бұрын
@@milokojjones This. I even agree with JT that in some ways the western anti-communist propaganda was smeared or misrepresenting many things the 20th century communist powers. But they both did a bit of genociding and famining so its irresponsible to gloss over that (Of course the same could be said about the US)
@untraceablefgc-9mkii251
@untraceablefgc-9mkii251 2 жыл бұрын
@@IconicPhotonic So are you trying to say famines weren't caused by natural events and mismanagement? There's a big difference beetwen that and purposefully causing a famine. Also what genocides?
@diegoignaciomunozvalenzuel3013
@diegoignaciomunozvalenzuel3013 2 жыл бұрын
Just yesterday, I had the second thought of my whole life, really cool but really exhausting also
@RealmRabbit
@RealmRabbit 2 жыл бұрын
"Pharaohs, monarchies, and empires" ... So what you're saying Vaush is "Monarchies, monarchies, and monarchies"
@goodpol5022
@goodpol5022 2 жыл бұрын
LMAO I was thinking the same thing! Although technically empires don’t have to be monarchal they just usually are
@giannis_m
@giannis_m 2 жыл бұрын
There are differences though, pharaohs were theocratic monarchies, the "regular" monarchies were aristocratic/feudal in nature while empires like the british, spanish and french empires had a mercantilist character and a fundamentally different economic structure.
@RealmRabbit
@RealmRabbit 2 жыл бұрын
@@giannis_m Okay, firstly I don't think all pharaohs really treated it as much of a theocratic thing... Like there were Persian and Macedonian pharaohs and the Persian pharaohs I don't think bothered hanging out in Egypt while Alexander the Great I know basically did a quick ceremony he may not have even fully understood where they made him pharaoh and then he left to continue conquering Persians... So particularly around the late stages of Ancient Egypt the pharaohs weren't really doing many religious ceremony stuff... I assume most of the Ptolemaic dynasty probably didn't just since they largely didn't even care enough to learn the Egyptian language aside from the famous Cleopatra... Additionally, European kings were also fairly theocratic in a sense... The main thing that separates a monarch from a dictator is the reasons legitimizing their rule... Dictators it's generally force and what not, monarchs it's because they have a reason why they were chosen to be ruling over you (and the lines can get a bit blurred in some cases like Oliver Cromwell, though I'd argue he was more of a dictator)... What was the European monarch's justification for why it was them who were entitled to rule over others? God's will... They had the divine right of kings which many kinda assumed for a long time would be in the Bible and they largely couldn't speak Latin so... Yeah... They just had the monarchy and clergy telling them it was a thing so they rolled with it thinking for the longest time that God would punish them if they objected or something like that... So theocracy definitely had a role in European kings/queens and there were some such kings/queens that acted more zealously than others (or at least played a very theocratic role, particularly with Henry VIII who was formally bearing some title like Protector of the Catholic Faith before he split with Catholicism and became literally the head figure in his own Church of England...)
@RealmRabbit
@RealmRabbit 2 жыл бұрын
Also there are other monarchs elsewhere, like the Emperor of Japan which historically was seen as a direct descendant of the gods... I'm sure there are probably various other examples for Asian monarchs...
@TheGalaxyWings
@TheGalaxyWings Жыл бұрын
Empires and monarchies are different. The third french republic was an empire, the soviet union was an empire.
@gilless429
@gilless429 2 жыл бұрын
Gotta admit, I was already squinting at the screen before, but when he said China helps smaller countries... Well, good thing for my laptop I wasn't drinking anything at that point.
@luxborealis
@luxborealis 2 жыл бұрын
Taking Chinese development loans grants much social credit, comrade.
@dexorne9753
@dexorne9753 2 жыл бұрын
@@luxborealis the Chinese debt trap in an exaggerated, hypocritical myth.
@雷-t3j
@雷-t3j Жыл бұрын
@@dexorne9753 So? People like Second Thought delude themselves into believing that the CCP is doing anything other than what it thinks is best for them, then what is best for the PRC, and there's not really anything left for the rest of the world. I'm not saying China has done no good things, it has, and it could be a net positive to the world, but it's not GOOD, the USA is not EVIL, and America is the only power that balance it on the current world stage, and Chinese Hegemony will not be better than American hegemony.
@pankajgaihre8313
@pankajgaihre8313 2 жыл бұрын
22:22 If u want change in ur nation. U criticise your nation. It's as simple as that.
@kaosisback8376
@kaosisback8376 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah vaush isn't serious about anything anymore
@willdenham
@willdenham 11 ай бұрын
'It's always framed as us or them.' Yeah that's pretty much how war works.
@Ryukuro
@Ryukuro 2 жыл бұрын
That line about Russia and Ukraine aged like milk
@sacrilegioussasquatch
@sacrilegioussasquatch Жыл бұрын
A whole bunch of takes on it aged like milk. First 3 days, then a few weeks, a year....
@The_Chosen_Heretic
@The_Chosen_Heretic 2 жыл бұрын
This is why I find it so fucking hard to trust people who criticise America, because I really REALLY want to, but so often it devolves into a hyper reductive campist argument. It’s so frustrating.
@firefly9838
@firefly9838 2 жыл бұрын
Off with the heads of those in DC
@lukasmolcic5143
@lukasmolcic5143 2 жыл бұрын
to clear Fukuyamas argument a bit, he did not say there will no more wars or resurgences of different ideological movements, but that the liberal democracy is the final stage of development every nation will eventually strive to get at, or get back at if it falls back to a lower form of development
@prajwaljayaraj5887
@prajwaljayaraj5887 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, he was still wrong. I hate that I had to do a paper on it. He's such a lib for real.
@lukasmolcic5143
@lukasmolcic5143 2 жыл бұрын
@@prajwaljayaraj5887 is your paper available somewhere online, I haven't even got too deep in Fukuyamas original argument, but it feels like an important thought for todays world that would be worth going in to details about it
@prajwaljayaraj5887
@prajwaljayaraj5887 2 жыл бұрын
@@lukasmolcic5143 It's not but I can email it to you once I'm done putting finishing touches on it. It's very amateurish I must warn you.
@milokojjones
@milokojjones 2 жыл бұрын
I feel like it's a wrong assesment, just because of how progress works - we never know ( or rather very rarely ) what is comming next - whether it's science advancements, technology, new space discoveries or social development, they are hard to predict and most of the time we tried predicting them, we got them wrong. For people in the middle ages, capitalism ( or something similar in concept from that age ) might have been seen as the end of social development and it couldn't get any more fair - we today know that is not the case, but the people back then probably didn't. Even today, if we become socialists in the future, I doubt it would be the end of our journey - we may not know what system would replace it in the future, but I'm willing to say some eventually will. Predicting the future of social development is especially hard, if only because of the sheer amounth of factors affecting it. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to predict it and have discussions about our predictions, but we should definetly refrain from calling something definitive or final.
@lukasmolcic5143
@lukasmolcic5143 2 жыл бұрын
@@milokojjones these are my thoughts as well, but I am curios about his arguments behind the claim, because when I see his talks he seems like an extremely reasonable man, I am sure he is well aware how hard is to predict the future, I should probably just go ahead and read his book
@KikomochiMendoza
@KikomochiMendoza 2 жыл бұрын
The Hegemon of the current dominant ideology will always think they are at the end of History. The Kings in Feudal times thought they were at peak civilization with the Landed Nobility lording over everyone else. They too thought that this was the natural state of humankind. This became the dominant ideology (at least in the West) until the burghers had enough Capital and Power to overturn this notion. Now modern day Burghers think that we are living at peak civilizations with Capital burghers lording over everyone else.
@geoscope3399
@geoscope3399 Жыл бұрын
That Ukrain comment did not age well
@nightspeakerthefallenwing3451
@nightspeakerthefallenwing3451 2 жыл бұрын
Hmmm now my thoughts are like second thought may have some valid points but saying China is helping others on getting out of American imperialism seems like a large stretch
@fuglong
@fuglong 2 жыл бұрын
Your take at 10:40 is so fucking mind blowing and enlightening thank you vowsh. Not even a meme that was such an amazing point
@michalmalak13
@michalmalak13 2 жыл бұрын
I would recommend you read some Marxist theory as this is basicly where Vaush took this take from. Still, his explanation is really good here.
@GreekHouseEffect
@GreekHouseEffect 2 жыл бұрын
no offence, dude, but this is pretty basic part of marxist thought. I mean you are not required to know that, but it's not like vaush had a galaxy brain moment here
@leninlover6986
@leninlover6986 2 жыл бұрын
Wtf he just spat out some words he found on the Wikipedia article on Marx. It didn't make any sense. You sound like big words impress you more than analysis
@tgirl_fangs
@tgirl_fangs 2 жыл бұрын
@@leninlover6986 tankie spotted
@sowishful
@sowishful Жыл бұрын
That is literally the most basic take possible
@stoopkidrumm3r
@stoopkidrumm3r 2 жыл бұрын
I'm a simple man. I see the word tankie, I discard the users opinion.
@UmQasaann
@UmQasaann Жыл бұрын
Better be a tankie than a liberal and social democrat closed fascists.
@thebestben
@thebestben 2 жыл бұрын
Chat was malding when Second Thought said China was stable, but that’s an accurate statement. I’m not a tankie, but no one can argue that China isn’t stable, if they weren’t, they wouldn’t have been able to transform their country so quickly. One-party rule, while undemocratic, allows the government to make long-term investments, ex: high speed rail, massive urbanization, large-scale social programs
@JamesRoyceDawson
@JamesRoyceDawson 2 жыл бұрын
While it has been historically stable for the last few decades, prior to opening up to trade with the west, China was ridden with famine and very underdeveloped. While it had caught up with the west at dramatic pace, there are many things that are likely to cause instability in the next few decades. ageing population, excessive local government debt, bureaucratic corruption etc
@arthur3816
@arthur3816 2 жыл бұрын
China is currently facing some serious issues with their dependency rate getting worse and worse, and also a housing bubble worse than anything ever seen in the west. I know that a lot of people have prophesized the end of China and they never were right, but I genuinely don't know how they are going to deal with both of those at the same time. They have also gotten worse on purity testing their functionaries which has put them in a spot where they don't have a lot of people left that really understand how the west works which I'd going to make foreign policy decisions harder to make.
@xblade11230
@xblade11230 2 жыл бұрын
China is collapsing I suggest you actually do some research and stop falling for Chinese propaganda Some good authors are Gordon Chang, Peter Zeihan, Michael Pettis China's economy is all a big lie, they literally male up growth numbers There is no evidence that china lifted millions of people out of poverty
@thebestben
@thebestben 2 жыл бұрын
@@arthur3816 By your logic the U.S. isn’t stable because we had a housing bubble. China is actually in a better position to deal with the fallout of their housing market collapse than we were. China’s government will use their resources to soften the blow, reform the system, and jail the executives who allowed it to happen.
@user-kn2iz8ve2w
@user-kn2iz8ve2w 2 жыл бұрын
@@xblade11230 Ah yes, Gordon Chang, who predicted China would collapse in the previous two decades
@shredvansshredquarters
@shredvansshredquarters 2 жыл бұрын
The saying loosely goes, "spend all day counting red cars and you'll never see a blue one"
@SubnormalEntertainment
@SubnormalEntertainment Жыл бұрын
Sometimes I feel like second thought is an AI
@ManicPandaz
@ManicPandaz 2 жыл бұрын
What is America even #1 at anymore...? Isn’t it like number of people imprisoned, amount of money spend on war and amount of medical debt? Does being #1 at the worst things possible even count?
@Amelia_Whitevoid
@Amelia_Whitevoid 2 жыл бұрын
They are also the richest country in the world.
@spaghettimon3851
@spaghettimon3851 2 жыл бұрын
No.1 on war crimes.
@ManicPandaz
@ManicPandaz 2 жыл бұрын
@@Amelia_Whitevoid As of 2021 China now has the highest total GDP and Luxembourg has the highest GDP par capita. America is not #1 in either case.
@Amelia_Whitevoid
@Amelia_Whitevoid 2 жыл бұрын
@@ManicPandaz You must be really good at math if you think *16,862.98 trillion dollars* is bigger than *$23.19 trillion*
@yukitakaoni007
@yukitakaoni007 2 жыл бұрын
number of hypocrites people. You won't find a country that have more hypocrites people than USA.
@unknownv8462
@unknownv8462 2 жыл бұрын
why left youtubers like to start arguments with other lefties instead of roasting right wingers who are taking over major countries like france, brezil,, austria, uk etc;..
@liammarra4003
@liammarra4003 2 жыл бұрын
Leftists, more particularly wanna-be leftists in the US (also known as, streamers) would rather purity test and self critique their own into irrelevance. Then do what every other large group of like minded folk have done since the dawn of time. Band together abd defeat the common foe-and *THEN* spend generations tearing each other apart until the most effectivly savage and persuasive party comes out on top. They're doing it backwards lmao. Not like streamers-I, I mean, "Leftests" born in the US, ever had chance. No hate like self hate, amirite?
@fluidthought42
@fluidthought42 2 жыл бұрын
I doubt either Vaush or Second Thought would decline to form a political coalition that would contain the other.
@RayGunnerGaming
@RayGunnerGaming 2 жыл бұрын
money
@TatoISR
@TatoISR 2 жыл бұрын
American Exceptionalism conceptually actually originates not from us becoming a military superpower, but from our humanitarian and developmental aid after WWII. The term became a negative phrase after Stalin used it mockingly during the Cold War.
@WiloPolis03
@WiloPolis03 2 жыл бұрын
Rare Stalin W, even though he was basically a USSR exceptionalist
@AlienG
@AlienG 2 жыл бұрын
I agree with vaush’s perspective on this video mostly but why is he making this video. I can’t wrap my mind about talking about this over something like the Kellogg’s strike.
@adamirshaid7637
@adamirshaid7637 2 жыл бұрын
Because chat wouldn't stop asking him to watch this or some of his other videos
@stevonwhite8933
@stevonwhite8933 2 жыл бұрын
Or Amazon and the tornadoes
@AlienG
@AlienG 2 жыл бұрын
@@adamirshaid7637 ok? he hasn’t even talked about this other important shit and instead opted to talk about this? it would be different if he had talked about. I feel it’s irresponsible honestly to not talk about the Kellogg’s strikes right now
@adamirshaid7637
@adamirshaid7637 2 жыл бұрын
@@AlienG Vaush has talked about this before, he's not a news channel and he doesn't want to be one. Plenty of other people have talked about the Kelloggs strike and we're all aware of it. And you know what? He probably will talk about it in a big segment when the situation develops more.
@Anonymous-df8it
@Anonymous-df8it 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe Second Thought could do "Let's Get A Second Thought On Let's Get A Second Thought... On Second Thought"!
@brubber3326
@brubber3326 2 жыл бұрын
calling all his stuff propaganda kinda sucks because he literally leaves all of his sources in the description. its not just "i say this and you believe me"
@CrystalLily1302
@CrystalLily1302 2 жыл бұрын
Propaganda doesn't necessarily refer to negative/malicious content, it just refers to media that intends to sway political views, although ST doesn't lie in his videos as Vasuh points out the omission of information paints a very propagandized version of the USSR/China which I would consider propaganda.
@malum9478
@malum9478 2 жыл бұрын
not what propaganda means. propaganda is literally what vaush does everyday. propaganda is GOOD when it's for GOOD things--we NEED good propagandists. it's important to any political movement.
@sacrilegioussasquatch
@sacrilegioussasquatch Жыл бұрын
Propaganda has a bad connotation. This is propaganda, vaush is propaganda, news are propaganda. It's about who does it and why.
@spaghettimon3851
@spaghettimon3851 2 жыл бұрын
The soviet famine of 1932 was caused by drought and kulak sabotage and the nazis did the katyn massacre.
@jackrutledgegoembel5896
@jackrutledgegoembel5896 2 жыл бұрын
you should write a thesis on this novel, never-before-debunked historical claim
@Asterothe91
@Asterothe91 2 жыл бұрын
as for the asymmetrical warfare, thats more of a reference to warfare involving traps such as IED and suicide bombings...this is usually known as unconventional warfare which is used when forces are generally unequal. i think he uses this terminology not to sanitize 911 but rather to include other terrorist threats in the entirety of the middle east which would include NGOs like Al Quada, ISIS and Taliban as well as governments like Iraq and Iran
@Celis.C
@Celis.C Жыл бұрын
Is there a new KZbin rule for working with other people's content? I'm referring to the speeding up of JT's vid, I notice this in a lot of other (semi-)reactionary videos were (parts of) videos get shown and sped up for some reason. Just genuinely curious about it.
@daggerthedragon1582
@daggerthedragon1582 2 жыл бұрын
Second Thought is super based
@Badfish1978
@Badfish1978 Жыл бұрын
2nd thought is a grifter
@calvinsomers1197
@calvinsomers1197 2 жыл бұрын
Propaganda is a fair term for almost all political YT content because propaganda isn’t inherently good or bad.
@sowishful
@sowishful Жыл бұрын
Everything is propaganda… if you are speaking your mind on a topic, you are spewing ‘propaganda’…
@sacrilegioussasquatch
@sacrilegioussasquatch Жыл бұрын
True.
@PlankySmith
@PlankySmith 2 жыл бұрын
"Make me the next Elon Musk and I will make capitalism reign eternal" - Vaush
@mattvanmantgem8600
@mattvanmantgem8600 2 жыл бұрын
While I agree that second thought is a bit soft on China, I think you may be underestimating public sentiment on war with China- I'm in a particularly irrationally xenophobic part of the world (Phoenix, AZ) so, maybe it's not elsewhere, but I have been hearing a lot of "Bomb them into the stone age" type comments. More seriously, there is a plausible scenario- with the Trans-Afghanistan oil pipeline, and Lithium mining in Eastern Afghanistan, China has become friendly with the Taliban, for energy production reasons, and so, it is plausible that western Energy Barons could get us back into a proxy war. Now, I agree that China is every bit as rapacious and brutal as America, and probably worse in terms of exploitation for resources, I just think the thought of entering a war with China has been floating for awhile.
@noname772fp2
@noname772fp2 2 жыл бұрын
I believe public support for war with China in the event of a Taiwanese invasion is above 50%
@NyJoanzy
@NyJoanzy 2 жыл бұрын
7:32 - the Coconut Analogy will always be applicable
@walterl322
@walterl322 2 жыл бұрын
I'm happy that vaush has started to put less ads on his videos... I'm retracting my previous statement that he should be the first rich person in the line to the guillotine... but we're still taking your money... and also sake tanuki's money...
@lsuperior
@lsuperior 2 жыл бұрын
Considering he doesn’t do sponsors, I’d say it’s fairs
@S4RGE007
@S4RGE007 2 жыл бұрын
how do ppl not know ad blocker exists? oh wait prolly on a phone or other device nvm my bad
@walterl322
@walterl322 2 жыл бұрын
@@S4RGE007 yeah, I discovered that you can't use an ad blocker on the yt app and that's fucking annoying... Also, I'm not actually mad about Vaush putting so many ads😂 even though it's annoying...
@NyanSox
@NyanSox 2 жыл бұрын
how many times does vaush say liberal in this video
@BruhWhyDidTheyChangeThis
@BruhWhyDidTheyChangeThis 2 жыл бұрын
Second thought makes great content.
@johnkop4
@johnkop4 2 жыл бұрын
and other jokes you can tell yourself
@chrisangel6833
@chrisangel6833 2 жыл бұрын
@@johnkop4 he do tho
@johnkop4
@johnkop4 2 жыл бұрын
@@chrisangel6833 Blindly praising the Chinese is not the type of content I would enjoy
@BruhWhyDidTheyChangeThis
@BruhWhyDidTheyChangeThis 2 жыл бұрын
@@johnkop4 it’s not all he does tho, he mainly shits on capitalism in very eloquent and well put together arguments. He was part of my radicalization process. In fact many people I sent videos of his to had their minds changed about certain topics. He’s not infallible, just don’t fall for “China good” and you’ll be fine.
@adamirshaid7637
@adamirshaid7637 2 жыл бұрын
@@johnkop4 hey man I don't even watch his content but blindly disregarding all his work is counterproductive. He has had a demonstratively positive and radicalizing influence on a lot of people and while his ideas about China are bad, I would say that he's generally good.
@nosauceyesrough3576
@nosauceyesrough3576 2 жыл бұрын
This video is way more sussy than the others you’ve gone through.
@SomethingImpromptu
@SomethingImpromptu 2 жыл бұрын
Second Thought is generally great. From the first video I saw by him onward I’ve seen a LOT of Noam Chomsky’s influence (he analyzes & describes many subjects in the same terms Chomsky does- as do I, because he was dead right about so much & has a wonderful tendency to describe things in terms so clear & direct & unambiguous that any working class person can understand; the mark of a great science communicator & a great leftist political thinker IMO, since raising the consciousness of & winning over the numbers we have as the working class majority is pretty much the main thing that determines how much of the population we have the potential to organize, & numbers & decentralized horizontal organization are our major strengths in the face of a corporate state which assassinates leaders when movements are centralized & can easily marginalize minority populations. However, no idea why Second Thought decided to do a show with Hakim of all people- an apologist for all the Leninist/ML dictatorial BS Second Thought generally seemed to see through… Not sure what’s up with that. Also, lol at the idea of a political science concept of “decliners- people who think the US empire is in decline…” You mean, people with eyes? xD But yeah, Fukushima literally was just trying to take the place of Marx- where Marx actually had a rigorous, dialectical, historical materialist analysis which made a rational & empirically-backed case for why the abolition of class the class divide & worker ownership of the means of production (socialism) & ultimately communism would logically follow capitalism, just as it logically followed feudalism, which logically followed slave societies, Fukushima essentially just changes to the bourgeois-preferred propaganda conclusion that actually neoliberal capitalism IS the final stage of socio-economic organization, so all you socialists & communists should just STFU & accept it, because *“there is no alternative”* as Ms. Thatcher so theatrically proclaimed… And then he makes a bunch of post hoc rationalizations to justify this very convenient axiomatic position (convenient if you’re in the ruling class who never wants their rule to be challenged). Of course, it completely contradicts the body of historical data & from an actual dialectical materialist analytical perspective it’s laughable- this is not a rigorous academic/intellectual claim, but just an ideological propaganda assertion based on extremely motivated reasoning designed to serve elite interests, no more credible or unbiased than if today some political historian tied to the Chinese government declared that they’d developed a theory of history which proves the Chinese one-party state is the ultimate form of government & will be the form of government which with dominate the world during a Chinese hegemonic “end of history.” The Marxian conception is the only one of these “end of history” predictions which is actually based on an honest analysis of the social relations embedded in different modes of production, the historical pattern we see emerge as forces of production develop (except presently with the transition from capitalism to socialism, because of the success the ruling class has had propagandizing/indoctrinating us, crushing the labor left through violence & sabotage, etc.; without conscious, organized anti-capitalist workers to serve as agents of history, to actually make the transition happen, it doesn’t matter how developed our forces of production become. That’s why so much of the mechanisms of social control in liberal capitalism relies on putting up roadblocks that obstruct us from raising working class consciousness, explaining what socialism/communism/anarchism/Marxism actually mean (given all the false definitions & assumptions people are instilled with from childhood in America), organizing on a mass scale, influencing state power, etc.. After the foment & popular mobilization of the 1960s, the ruling class dedicated itself to making another such “crisis of democracy,” another uprising of popular movements & labor-based organizations on behalf of workers & other marginalized people against the ruling class & the various forms of oppression they’ve used to divide & control us, impossible. Now, they’re gradually losing their grip, just as they are over the rest of the world… But that doesn’t mean they won’t continue to resort to more & more desperate assaults on workers & the democratic mechanisms that might enable us, as the majority, to rein in their power. This is where fascism becomes a real danger, because historically they will back fascism & use it to crush workers & the left when we become a real threat to their class rule. This is one of the reasons we really need mass numbers & largely horizontal or extensively federated organizations; not only to carry out revolutionary labor actions (authentic, successful mass general strikes), but also to ensure violence & authoritarianism can’t be used to just strike us down & wipe us out “Jakarta method” style or assassinate a few key leaders, infiltrate positions of power with a few of CIA’s own, & effectively neuter/co-opt whole organizations & movements without having to do a thing to 80, 90% of the members.
@Zenbladison
@Zenbladison 2 жыл бұрын
Goddamn bro, you went hard as fuck on this analysis
@ShayNoMore1
@ShayNoMore1 2 жыл бұрын
Second thought is the biggest 🐂 s.hit ever made
@nataliekhanyola5669
@nataliekhanyola5669 2 жыл бұрын
Nope!!
@ShayNoMore1
@ShayNoMore1 2 жыл бұрын
@@nataliekhanyola5669 second thought bot
@The_Story_Of_Us
@The_Story_Of_Us 2 жыл бұрын
To be fair, I really think that while Second Thought’s comments about China being an positive force for good in the world compared to america are silly and sussy, I kinda think I need to hear him fully discuss the topic of China and its politics to really get a grip on whether he just sometimes gets ahead of himself with anti-American sentiment while scripting, or if he genuinely is just blind to red fascism.
@euunul
@euunul 2 жыл бұрын
Well, yeah, MrLiberalPossingAsLeftist, China does help poorer countries to get out from under US boot. It might have ulterior motives, it might do it with the goal of becoming world hegemonic power displacing USA. But nonetheless it helps them. Even if by just offering those countries an alternative to choose from to get finances needed to develop their economy. And yeah, China does bring those countries closer to socialism by providing an example that there is a path toward socialism, the same path China embarked on. But watabout China is a not socialist but capitalist country? Well, back to OG Marx boy, you can't hope for a proletariat revolution to build the bright communist future without first going through capitalism. Communism is the end goal, not the state of affairs. If China offers an example of "communism with Chinese characteristics" Chile could try "communism with Chilean characteristics", "communism with Rwandan characteristics for Rwanda" and hopefully "communism with blackjack and hookers for USAnians"
@williamoldaker5348
@williamoldaker5348 2 жыл бұрын
Vaush has such a sycophantic fan base.
@RayGunnerGaming
@RayGunnerGaming 2 жыл бұрын
no shit. they are mostly high schoolers
@thechief043
@thechief043 2 жыл бұрын
I'd be curious to see how others see this Second Thought video vs PolyMatter's China Reckoning series. My impression from this ST video is that China is an ever-growing juggernaut, but watching PolyMatter would make me question that.
@BladeValant546
@BladeValant546 2 жыл бұрын
Naw it's their domestic problems. You need liberty you can't suppress humans forever. If they would just open up to freedom of expression while keeping their socialism they would out do the us.
@whysocurious7366
@whysocurious7366 2 жыл бұрын
I’d be curious regardless
@d3th2m3rikkka
@d3th2m3rikkka 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah but a lot of the problems polymatter lists about China are also problems the US has. He talks about China having a lack of water for example, but the west coast is running out of water and droughts and wildfires now happen every year instead of every few decades.
@thechief043
@thechief043 2 жыл бұрын
@@d3th2m3rikkka Exactly, I'd like to see an in-depth analysis of both. Not an expert, but based on population location, I'd predict China might be worse off, but the US will absolutely have problems. And desalinization is an energy intensive process, which will absolutely be compounded by climate change.
@fraktaalimuoto
@fraktaalimuoto 2 жыл бұрын
I think PolyMatter's China series is very good. Saying this as someone who has been interested in China for a long time. China has internal problems and the massive economic growth cannot be maintained forever which will decrease the popularity of CCP. CCP is not the worst government out there, as I do believe there are people in that organisation who genuinely want to make the country work. However, the recent direction for increased authoritarianism is worrying, and I will speculate that it will lead to further instability down the line. 10 years ago I still believed that China, despite its problems, was heading towards better direction. Nowadays I am not so sure.
@stoneman472
@stoneman472 2 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, the Tankie Litmus Test of "Do you think China Good?".
@liammarra4003
@liammarra4003 2 жыл бұрын
More like: "Do you think China is good?" "And, if so, why are they not?" How to spot that you're dealing with a light switch brain wanna-be Leftis-I, I mean, a Streamer? They ask you if Nation States are, "Good", or, "Bad". Avoid. Report. Its your duty.
@stoneman472
@stoneman472 2 жыл бұрын
@@liammarra4003 aw look. I lured in the Tankie
@liammarra4003
@liammarra4003 2 жыл бұрын
@@stoneman472 dont forget to check under your bed and self critique your subscribed list, my be some tankies in there
@stoneman472
@stoneman472 2 жыл бұрын
@@liammarra4003 Hey, just answer these questions for me. 1.Did the Uyghur Genocide happen? 2. Did Halodomar happen? 3. Does Chlorine Gas sink?
@liammarra4003
@liammarra4003 2 жыл бұрын
@@stoneman472 Uyghur genocide "happened"? Are you implying that the Uyghur genocide ended? The Holodomor, how ever its spelled happened. And I dont know anything about Chlorine gas. If this is a tankie test, this is a bad tankie test. Based on my hand on the pulse viewing. Ones about modern China, second is Stalinist USSR, and third is....about Syria? This test will have you thinking a lot of people are tankies.
@bob5476
@bob5476 2 жыл бұрын
Tankie just means based, right?
@elizabethdavis1696
@elizabethdavis1696 2 жыл бұрын
7:34 coconut analogy Anyone have a suggested KZbin video to explain that?
@underthedice1231
@underthedice1231 2 жыл бұрын
It's a variation on a well known antilibertarien argument that made Irishladdy popular. It makes the case against the idea that free markets can be devoid of cohersion. Making the NAP unworkable as the sole social contract.
@Nickshady2254
@Nickshady2254 2 жыл бұрын
I come from watching JT before Vaush, and i live both chamnels and listen to both podcasts. If he pulls through on talking with Vaush, this is where not only i will promptly watch the stream, but this will also challenge my ideals, and i have a blend of both sides. Lets see where this goes...
@LeMAList
@LeMAList 2 жыл бұрын
I love Vaush, but this ST arc is stupid - Vaush gave a bad take by calling him a tankie, got called out for it, and now scramble to save face instead of admitting he done goofed. This has overinflated youtuber ego written all over it, and it needs to stop.
@alienkatdaddycgs5904
@alienkatdaddycgs5904 2 жыл бұрын
I would've said that too. But the part where he starts talking about China bringing socialist to the world is a little strange to me. Especially cause they're not socialist.
@LeMAList
@LeMAList 2 жыл бұрын
@@alienkatdaddycgs5904 I don't disagree, that IS pretty cringe, and it is a point that would certainly require a deeper dive or more nuance - It is possible, for example, to approach a society separately from its government, and to recognize the potential of the chinese emerging civil society in the same way one could make the argument that the USA is a potential force for the betterment of the world despite its recent inept and bordeline fascist governments. But in the grand scheme of things, ST work does not promote autoritarism or coercitive governance, and people prentending otherwise are pretty much just grasping at straw to self-agrandize.
@joeyjose727
@joeyjose727 2 жыл бұрын
He didn’t really say he was a tankie though, he agreed for the most part but found some statements suspicious. I did as well but I think this is because we’re internet poisoned and are used to seeing some people excuse the worst things China has done Vaush assumes everyone on the online left hates him (and most of the louder communities do) so I think he comes from a bit of a defensive place at times. This isn’t served by letting your editors title a video “Is ST a Sussy Baka Tankie?” Or whatever it was called, but now that ST has declined to talk this will probably end Like I don’t think Vaush will keep bringing up ST as an example of a tankie. Mostly because the reason that first video went over poorly is that people feel he does good work and it’s useless to find and sussy tankie takes. I do find him suspicious after this video but I don’t disagree with him on most things and would never tell anyone to ignore ST’s channel, especially when there’s nothing I’ve seen ST do that makes me do anything more than raise an eyebrow
@liammarra4003
@liammarra4003 2 жыл бұрын
@@alienkatdaddycgs5904 China will be, even if they dont, because they claim and assert that they are. The US/West claim, and assert that they arent, hell, they go out of their way to. And thats what will be remembered. Thats what, where, and who socialistas and Leftists, and socialists governments, States, entities, etc., will go to. Regardless of what Americans streamers want to be remembered or occur-they got lots of work to do, may want to first get their government actually being, and showing, just a modicum of support for the ideology lmao. You hate dogs and kill them, I love dogs, or at least I clam too. Dog owners will come to whom about a stray? Same thing applied during the cold war. Leftests went to the USSR, China, Cuda, Vietnam, Laos, etc., for support. Not the US. I wonder why? Right-wing facists went to the US/West for support-I wonder why?* *To keep it simple, this is broadly speaking
@liamc.6642
@liamc.6642 2 жыл бұрын
I-it WAS a title drop...
@screamingphoenix8113
@screamingphoenix8113 2 жыл бұрын
Second thoughts? In this economy? I can barely afford to think a first thought.
@johnconnor8206
@johnconnor8206 Жыл бұрын
28:36 the benefit for the countries in Africa is that the terms of Chinese loans are better than those of IMF loans.
@davidbouchard2499
@davidbouchard2499 2 жыл бұрын
I like ST, I like you, I like every leftist KZbinr. I find ST too much of a tanky, I find you too much of a debate bro, does it mean I don't listen to the both of you? No. I enjoy both your content.
@untraceablefgc-9mkii251
@untraceablefgc-9mkii251 2 жыл бұрын
Tankie" Is literally just a buzzword and a useless mean to to create a counterpeoductive Red scare on the left. It's so annoying that all these comrades gobble down straight up made up lies or incredibly exagerated and caricaturized versions of what former and current socialist projects are.
@Oak_Gray
@Oak_Gray 2 жыл бұрын
Have him on! I would love to hear his responses to your criticisms
@Jeremy-hx7zj
@Jeremy-hx7zj Жыл бұрын
So weird how just a year ago no one knew that ST was a vile moron
@joeoliver4266
@joeoliver4266 2 жыл бұрын
Even when he doesn't mention China, he implies over and over that capitalism is part and parcel with the United States rather than a global entity with competing factions inside. That's a scarily undercooked analysis for someone trying to popularize left politics. You can't meaningfully challenge capitalism unless you understand it as the sole economic fabric the world is operating on today.
@untraceablefgc-9mkii251
@untraceablefgc-9mkii251 2 жыл бұрын
He does know that capitalism Is a global system. It's just that he focuses on the USA because of his main audience.
@jackpot42
@jackpot42 2 жыл бұрын
The end of history is such a cynacle view: America as it is is as good as things can be
@crocve
@crocve 2 жыл бұрын
Vaush declared war on China in this debate.
@potrelviewer9536
@potrelviewer9536 Жыл бұрын
Did Vaush played ST's video on higher speed?
@tw3f4tes52
@tw3f4tes52 Жыл бұрын
1.25x it seems
@michalmalak13
@michalmalak13 2 жыл бұрын
I agree that hegemony is bad but I don't agree with Vaush's statement that any hegemony will be the same. First of all, most probably China will never be able to be a sole hegemon like the US so China would be a hegemon in a multipolar world. Second of all China is demonstrably less militaristic than the US. China builts its global presence by economic ties and its decision-makers rarely consider using military means.
@malum9478
@malum9478 2 жыл бұрын
china is less militaristic in comparison to the US, _the largest military force the world has ever seen._ china is absolutely a massive military force otherwise and is increasing it's militarism everyday. it does basically the same nationalist bullshit america does too but with a splash of fascist propagandistic "glory of the old ways" rhetoric. if america wasn't able to china would quickly up their military game as well. also: "their decision makers rarely consider using military means"? you mean like how they constantly do power plays and insist on invading taiwan?
@michalmalak13
@michalmalak13 2 жыл бұрын
@@malum9478 I agree with most of what you are saying however I believe that if you study Chinese culture and History you can see that China is a less militaristic culture than the west. Also, what power plays are you talking about? Island bases in S. Chian sea? They are just doing the same thing that Vietnam and other countries in the region are doing. China did not fought in a war since 1979. Their aggressiveness towards Taiwan is very worrying but it's unique because China believes Taiwan to be a part of its territory.
@tofuteh2348
@tofuteh2348 2 жыл бұрын
@@michalmalak13 im chinese and give it time, china wants to become the next US
@alienkatdaddycgs5904
@alienkatdaddycgs5904 2 жыл бұрын
21:00 Oof, I guess that part is pretty bad.
@TheGoblinoid
@TheGoblinoid 2 жыл бұрын
Nah, second thought is based.
@ReidMerrill
@ReidMerrill 2 жыл бұрын
Vaush on the deprogram when?
@mjr_schneider
@mjr_schneider 2 жыл бұрын
I'm sorry but I haven't been able to take anything Second Thought says remotely seriously ever since I watched that video where he uses the Political Compass website to prove that every American politician other than Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard are on the authoritarian right. He's a complete smoothbrain.
@rubbercable
@rubbercable 2 жыл бұрын
They(China) don't have to be nice. They just have to be a counter-force. (Like the EU)
@poisondamage2182
@poisondamage2182 2 жыл бұрын
For what?
@rubbercable
@rubbercable 2 жыл бұрын
@@poisondamage2182 Global Hegemons. One nation can delete the entire planet single-handedly (not without cost) and nothing could stop it.. It has the power of the next 11 nations combined(most are allies). The rest of the planet is rusted submarines, ww2 planes and paddleboats. It has replaced dozens or scores of democratically elected regimes by coup or assassinations. It has crashed remote economies by sanctions. It's PR is global. It taxes the planet for it's arms by taxing the oil/energy that's traded globally. This is a guess now: I'm guess it has more extra-border purpose-built military bases than the rest of the planet combined. (I didn't include confiscated/converted public buildings or makeshift openair guerrilla camps)
@poisondamage2182
@poisondamage2182 2 жыл бұрын
@@rubbercable but why should we want another country at the handle?
@rubbercable
@rubbercable 2 жыл бұрын
@@poisondamage2182 If captalist monopolies is any example. Any monopoly of power is bad news. The EU is an example where each state keeps the other 'honest'. like 27 poker cheats watching each other. Anyone arguing diff. is okay with dictatorship - as long as they're the dictator. _"search your feelings, luke." you know I'm right_
@poisondamage2182
@poisondamage2182 2 жыл бұрын
@@rubbercable boi, i want a socialist revolution. I want the workers of the world to seize power. I don't give a shit about which bourgois state has how much power.
@7th808s
@7th808s 2 жыл бұрын
21:30 Maybe it's the red flags... maybe it's the tons of state-owned companies, and the ultimate power that the state holds over the private companies in their country instead of the other way around. Vaush once again suffering from Ameribrain.
@georgekingiv8171
@georgekingiv8171 2 жыл бұрын
Where else we have seen that oh yeah Soviet union. I wonder how are they doing.
@bluepurplepink
@bluepurplepink 2 жыл бұрын
Ah yes, the state owned companies that are run not by workers but by a non-democratic dictator is totally socialism. I think you suffer from terminal tankie syndrome supporting a dictatorship by thinking they stand for the people. No democracy = no workers representation. The Chinese state works for Xi Jingping not the Chinese people. They are state capitalist.
@thewhitefalcon8539
@thewhitefalcon8539 2 жыл бұрын
Question: Does Russia really want to start world war 3? Answer: Yes.
@daniellassander
@daniellassander 2 жыл бұрын
Were about to hear more idiotic stuff about basic economics from someone that knows nothing about basic economics, go on Vaush.
@Aconitum_napellus
@Aconitum_napellus 2 жыл бұрын
I just got an ad for Candace Owen interviewing Trump.
@charliekahn4205
@charliekahn4205 2 жыл бұрын
I've always wondered how best we can apply the iterative theory of historical progress to economic systems. I think we should keep some of the good parts of capitalism (you get rewarded for doing your job well, and you get more reward for doing it better) and remove the bad parts (trusts; hierarchical, profit-inefficient organization). We should treat politics like we treat any other form of scientific development.
@PurpleSnake
@PurpleSnake 2 жыл бұрын
Rewarding someone better because they did better is not a capitalist concept. In fact it is all over socialist concepts since if you get your value out of your labor that means if you do more you get more.
@davidharabagiu4969
@davidharabagiu4969 2 жыл бұрын
I was never rewarded for doing my job well. Everyday at work I'm incentizived to do the barely minimum and always switch jobs frequently for higher pay. I started to not give a single shit about the projects I'm involved in because they seem so pointless to me and I have no say in what the company does. At interviews I'm fake and act like I'm all passionate and interested in the company. You can judge me for this, but if I didn't do it, I would have starved to death until now.
@charliekahn4205
@charliekahn4205 2 жыл бұрын
@@davidharabagiu4969 I meant that if you provide a service at the advantage of the market, you get paid.
@TheQueen-sw4th
@TheQueen-sw4th 2 жыл бұрын
@@charliekahn4205 Get paid by what you produce? Sounds like socialism to me
@charliekahn4205
@charliekahn4205 2 жыл бұрын
@@TheQueen-sw4th Socialism is, as far as I can tell, like that but not naturally enforced.
@tylerhackner9731
@tylerhackner9731 2 жыл бұрын
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