I Have Never Conceded So Quickly

STV Philly’s Channel - / stvphilly
🔴 Website - www.vaush.gg/
💵 Patreon - / vaush
🌟 Other Socials 🌟
⭐️ Main Channel - / @vaush
🐦 Twitter - / vaushv
👾 Twitch - / vaushvidya
📸 Instagram - / vaushv
🔵 Facebook - / vaushvidya
🎵 TikTok - / vaushvidya
🎙Podcast - anchor.fm/vaush
⏱️ Timestamps!
0:08 - Convo Starts / Talking About Philly Issues
9:14 - Is Vaush Unfair Towards Black Figures?
24:17 - Is Vaush Honest About The Democratic Party?
34:07 - KZbin's Ability To Reach New People
40:27 - Hunter Avallone's CIA Arc

[@STVPhilly]

not my best showing. but i was nervous 😂 🤷🏾‍♂️ talking in front of thousands of people you don't know, to a person you never talked to, while trying to provide constructive criticism isn't as easy as these guys make it look.

[@wargex]

I think you did great man. Idc what anybody says about it. Yeah you were nervous, but when Vaush gets a lot of bad faith criticism, and trying to make a point while having it received in good faith by both chat and Vaush can't be easy, especially live. lol, "I come in peace, please don't shoot the messenger, there's a whole lot of you, and I'm not in my element". Congratulations on intellectually demolishing Voosh at neck break speeds, a true warrior and a scholar. lol, Hope I can hear y'all talk again sometime man.

[@Time_Is_Left]

Mind if I ask how old you are? I ask because I’m 35, and your response to Vaushs age demo answer made me chuckle lol

[@wargex]

@@Time_Is_Left I know you're not talking to me, but if it helps I'm 29. Soon enough to be 30. Idk if that help you not feel so old, cause I feel old. lol

[@Time_Is_Left]

@@wargex ha I appreciate it, depends on the day lol. It’s not even that I think mid 30’s has anything on “you young uns”, it’s that the older I get the more I realize nobody knows sh/t

[@STVPhilly]

@@Time_Is_Left Im 36

[@marciamakesmusic]

The reason he is so defensive is because people that are in Vaush's chat, like any big streamer, are completely unhinged.

[@l.3ok]

TRUUU

[@PwnMissile]

I was in Vaush's chat and I can confirm I'm completely unhinged.

[@triedforawhile2518]

Chat was super nice to this guy wdym?

[@l.3ok]

@@triedforawhile2518 because of his efforts. Idk if you noticed, but he was being so careful with this part that it literally took about 10 minutes for him to make his point.

[@pope9187]

I’m only there to soy emote whenever Vonch mentions Warhammer

[@jcrules101]

STVPhilly is so sweet lol. The minute Vaush conceded the original point he couldn't let himself sound even a little contentious anymore.

[@TayTayMakesBeats]

I'm 16 minutes in and good lord he is definitely one of the nicest people in this space. Up there with Shark and Rose Wrist. I wish he'd be more direct and assertive, Vaush can take it lol

[@soulmechanics7946]

STVPhilly.. thank you. We will keep an eye on this guy. I like him.

[@dylangeorgeson6580]

@@TayTayMakesBeats A lot of the time these things aren't about how the streamer can take it but more about not wanting a complete toxic reaction from the chat

[@Sprite_525]

@@TayTayMakesBeats I’m glad Shark is getting attention. He’s unique in a kind and smart way that I don’t see very often

[@nightblade3709]

Vaush's most crushing defeat since Sargon 1. But Destiny still got destroyed in this debate

[@nathanjasper512]

Destiny is so good no one can best him. Lately he's even been defeating himself.

[@kamakozy13]

Sargon 1 sounds like a spaceship

[@hyperx72]

Destiny for real got destroyed here 34:12

[@Paul.......]

@@hyperx72 I love when this meme is actually accurate lmao rekt

[@lindenstromberg6859]

A guy calling himself Sargon of Akkad you know right off the bat is a pretentious twit. But without the wit, just the wat.

[@SM-BSW]

You could kind of tell that STV was expecting a more contentious conversation, and kind of didn't know what to do when Vaush immediately agreed.

[@kassieschmidt5711]

I think that's because Vaush tends to be pretty aggressive when people come in with contentions. He's gotten a lot better about this over time, and he's way more agreeable when the criticism comes with a way to improve his rhetoric, but I can see why STV would be nervous about that. Vaush's reputation works against him, and the best thing he can do for it is to continue the path he's been on

[@douglaslangley9251]

@@kassieschmidt5711 tbf a lot of "contentions" turned out to be unhinged bs. Vaush always came across as pretty amenable to critcism as long as it wasnt coming from left field, and by left field I mean legit crazy town.

[@debordguyguy8187]

13:13 - Debate begins 14:21 - Debate ends

[@matteopoldrugo9535]

I feel so validated by this debate because this guest highlighted every single grievance I’ve had with Vaush, and Vaush just owned up to it.

[@zen_tewmbs]

Within like 30 seconds of the actual grievances being brought up too.

[@VMonkies]

Vaush is able to recognize the faults that Democrats and lefties have in general, it makes sense that he'd be able to recognize faults in himself, too. I wish more commentators could do that, maybe it'd chill out some of the never-fucking-ending drama that seems to go on.

[@beebs4283]

this is what i like about vaush. he is consistently willing to actually improve and own up to his mistakes. you don’t find that often.

[@BlueTyphoon2017]

@@beebs4283 Ironically I think he should do it more often, because there are sometimes where I do believe he’s wrong about some things. It’s usually nothing big and it’s more so a small thing, but, I think this isn’t just a problem with Vaush, it’s a problem with the culture around debate bros, and even just the internet in general a lot of times. The problem is that, usually, audiences think that if you get one thing wrong, correct a mistake later, or concede a point, that therefore everything you say should be thrown out the window. My idea is, you should concede or correct your mistakes more, because you admit that you’re not a perfect person, and that you do make mistakes, and to me? That’s an ultra giga chad move, because your admitting that you make mistakes, and correct them, or acknowledge when someone makes a good point about something, and you can build bridges/ good friendships off of that.

[@soulmechanics7946]

"Every grievance"? You aren't concerned with Vaush bullsh*tting you guys in effort to cause controversy for the sake of capitalizing on it whilst pretending to protest capitalism at large?

[@DiabetoDan]

"there's probably a fisherman watching, right now" I have never felt more seen in my life, Voosh saved me 😍

[@jackrutledgegoembel5896]

Haha, I was looking for a comment like this!

[@treegrilld]

oh my god not ur profile pic wsdoiejfkmf

[@DiabetoDan]

@@treegrilld is there a problem sir/madam

[@atlassolid5946]

im totally clueless about fishing, but what fish is that in your pfp?

[@DiabetoDan]

@@atlassolid5946 American/Northern red snapper! Lutjanus campechanus

[@dankdreamz]

If only all youtubers had "I concede" and "you're right" in their vocabularies.

[@TheShuuman]

*gently lifts out youtubers and puts in the entire damn internet*

[@poposterous236]

I admitted fault in a livechat recently and its reminded me that people do not respect humility. The next time I have to admit fault I'm keeping it to my damn self.

[@alaskanbullworm5500]

Many do, they just fear that showing humility is more likely to leave them open to bad faith attacks from those who don’t, than to invite admiration from their willingness to publicly revise their positions. So many humble people engage in superficially arrogant and defensive behavior rather than leave themselves open.

[@haggisa]

@@TheShuuman As part of the internet, I appreciate the “gently.” Most are so rough with us. 🥺😁

[@rcurl44]

I know they don't get the biggest traction but I love these types of conversations. Ya know, the ones that actually help progress everyone in the conversation in a productive and meaningful way

[@OffCAMz]

I wish all political discussions went like this

[@blakejohnson9730]

The Chad productive conversation vs the virgin blood sports

[@comradeanthony4120]

They're personally my favorite vids. I would take this over bloodsports with stupid Nazis any fucking day

[@serenaongenda5964]

Hi, I'm a 20-year-old black woman in my 3rd year of Uni (I'm from Canada). I completely agree with what STVPhilly was critiquing Vaush on. I think this was a very productive conversation and I would love to see more discussion like this (people are not yelling but are more receptive to the arguments being constructed).

[@r96red23]

Canada is the Best 🇨🇦 🇨🇦

[@ragingroyal729]

A Canadian Take That fan, that’s rare.

[@veronikapermaul5531]

Aye a fellow Canadian!

[@KillerPigMonkey]

Man, American Politicians got me double checking your profile pic after reading the first sentence to make sure you weren't Dean Browning.

[@crocodilerock4662]

Vaush: “nah wait I think you already won” STV: 👀

[@shizanketsuga8696]

Destiny was utterly destroyed in this debate. Oh, and then there was this absolutely heartwarmingly wholesome conversation. Much love!

[@caatko1388]

Was that the "three hours of literal hell" debate?

[@hi__im_zack4890]

This is a problem I've had with vaush for a while (more of a minor problem though). However, everyone trying to make this point on the left came at it from a really anti debate bro stance, which makes the whole argument/criticism pointless. Im glad this guy was able to formulat his arguments well and I'm glad vaush had him on; I know I wouldn't have been able to do it.

[@uninstaller2860]

Very true! Also, even if it took him a while to express (I've been nervous, too, I know what it's like) his criticism, I saw the path he was heading us through, and I saw the destination of his points. I realized that he put in words some of my own feelings of Vaush. I'm really glad he came on.

[@nadivge]

disliked and reported for hate speech. literally just said the c slur

[@hi__im_zack4890]

@@nadivge ahh... you got me

[@Unlyricallyrics]

you can tell he's in his mid thirties vs the 18-20 year olds you often see online

[@davidbritton5627]

I’m a 42 year old half black/chicano man that’s been watching for the past year. I agree with the caller completely. Sometimes I question Vaush’s comments regarding blacks, but then I consider cultural differences. I’m older, i grew up with no mother or father and moved around my whole life sometimes in poverty. I didn’t grow up white in Beverly Hills and become a millionaire in my 20s. That being said, despite the differences I feel Vaush is an amazing person for being able to recognize these types of differences and overall I LOVE his content. I listen just about everyday, and I want him to continue to grow. I’d LOVE to see him one day on Rogan. That would be huge. But one step at a time.

[@davidbritton5627]

@Robert Yeah I just assumed he’s a millionaire. That’s not really the point of what I was saying though. And regardless I’m a fan of Vaush. Really weird take my dude

[@vladtheinhaler93]

Slight tangent, but have you read 'The Hitchhikers Guide to Reality'? If you haven't, do so asap, I think you will understand why..

[@davidbritton5627]

@@vladtheinhaler93 will do, thanks for the recommendation

[@unreasonablyagreeable1081]

I am one of Vaush's black audience members. We exist! Just not in your chat lol

[@herefortheshrimp1469]

I am so thrilled to see a black member of his audience critique him about what a poor job he does sometimes and see Vaush be so receptive to it. I would be insanely nervous too but this is REALLY good!

[@sieg5857]

Same

[@sEdJ1281]

Same

[@mistake1197]

Same! Also chat is a little to weird for me.

[@Nuvizzle]

Imagine existing in Vaush's chat.

[@youngimperialistmkii]

Vaush. I am black and in my late 30's. I'm not typical of your demographic myself. I only subbed in the last 6 months or so. I find myself agreeing with most of your takes. I have been very wary of political youtube in recent years. But I find you to be a very thoughtful voice in the space.

[@aForkfulOfGold]

Absolutely, yes. I appreciate that you (usually) get the impression that he's arguing in good faith. That's really important to me.

[@samescourt3801]

Vaush being able to own up to his mistakes and concede? Love to see it. Having that ability is incredibly admirable regardless of any feelings that you may have on Vaush.

[@timetaker7816]

Vaush should talk about how cool shark3ozero is, he's an amazing black creator in the leftist community

[@puffinatheart5565]

He's awesome! Such a sweetheart

[@blinski1]

Yes! And when it comes to black lefties' concerns about this whole 'bread tube area' of the internet I really recommend his video when he comments on J.D Signifier's (other black YT content creator worth mentioning, for those who don't know him) video + they have a great convo when J.D Signifier joins the stream.

[@franknstein5376]

@@blinski1 I was going to comment about F.D. Signifier's video and his channel in general, really good creator; it also may help find other great channels like Khadija etc. It is actually crazy how little youtube recommends black creators even to viewers that follow left leaning KZbinrs

[@muticancan123]

Shark's great!

[@amadouagne3405]

Shark Pog

[@FatherOak]

I'm a Muslim Vegan mixed Mexican/native/white Cis dude in the military & in my late 30s. That's gotta be like the opposite of the Vowsh demo, lmao.

[@CPSPD]

we are reaching based levels that should not be humanly possible

[@m.f.3347]

مشاء الله

[@horace6851]

dude, I'm a cis married woman in late 30, with a kid nonetheless. And I'm not even American, I feel weird here sometimes. (ok, I'm white, but that's like the only part of Venn diagram that let's me be here)

[@haggisa]

@@horace6851 Yo, I’m a 37 year old cis Polish woman, so…high five? 😊

[@horace6851]

@@haggisa High five for sure!

[@disarmyouwitha]

“I’m not going to call Candice Owen a race traitor BUT-“ hahaha

[@justin-md4xm]

she def is

[@captain-chair]

She wants to bomb my country and that to my Australian ass is hilarious.

[@Fourttrax]

I like how he really seems to care about accuracy in his takes while being nervous. Great convo and it was a great reflection on internet optics.

[@antivexium3892]

Vaush spoke to a black person for the first time in this debate.

[@flutterg1035]

Facts lmao

[@derpythean-comdoge8608]

Unlike professor flowers who was not smart enough to be considered a “person”

[@misirtere9836]

Objectively false, most of his chat voted for biden

[@sarraceniafell]

@@derpythean-comdoge8608 cringe

[@robcarlton2341]

A re u just sayin that because he accepted this guy's actual critiques compared to say flowers' "critiques"?

[@Psylockt]

Ugh this is main channel tier content,such a good convo

[@ReidMerrill]

Conversation > debate

[@SurelyYewJest]

See this is the kind of honesty and integrity that nobody on the right will ever remotely consider entertaining. The ones that have, like Avallone, immediately start moving left. Even if a rightist maintained their positions (and here I’m talking about a mythical rightist who is 1000% disinterested in the culture wars) and was able to defend them philosophically, I could at least respect that and respect the person. But the rightists we have to deal with in reality have dropped all their economic and political philosophy for the most reactionary racial and cultural strategies of Fascism.

[@joesmith4965]

Lmfaooooooooo massive cope. We aren't the ones who try to indoctrinate children and silence free speech

[@arazec1014]

@@joesmith4965 Ok👍

[@roberthuman8091]

Admitting what Conservatives were wrong about was honestly my first steps towards socialism. Lol.

[@blasianking4827]

@@joesmith4965 And conservatives aren't? Damn.

[@freewilly1193]

@@joesmith4965 I think you're massively confused friend, the left hasn't been engaging in book Bannings and burnings like the right has in Texas. But all yes, the fact that you can't call a gay guy queer and not get punched in the face is somehow stepping on your right to free speech. I bet you're also the first person that cries when you get called a cracker

[@SmoketySm0ke]

Major props to this guy for the incredible good will, and major props to Vaush for the incredible grace.

[@UnorthodoxIndividual]

"I've never conceded so quickly" *45 Minute long vid* I have a short attention span

[@pkpunchie]

its ok he concedes 14 minutes in

[@UnorthodoxIndividual]

@@pkpunchie I just got to that part lol

[@Superbajt]

And he basically conceded immediately after his guest formulated their contention, it's not on Vaush that it took so long ;)

I've never seen anything by you before, but the moment we cannot give or accept critique from within our own community is the moment we stop trying to do better. This is a great example of how critique can be both given and accepted in a constructive way. Gonna subscribe for a while, see other good stuff comes along.

[@mits_y]

this guy sounds like a college professor. a little nervous, but super polite and happier to have someone learn than to belittle them. worth a channel browse for sure

[@FortuitousOwl]

Poor guy was so nervous! He’s right, and he’s so nice lol I wish more people would be willing to talk to vaush when they have an issue. I know it can be intimidating especially knowing his fan base, but it usually goes pretty well if the person is willing to come in good faith.

[@mantlemoky5744]

“There’s probably a fisherman watching this right now” What up Vaush

[@bkucenski]

I think it's really important to read Malcolm X's autobiography because it gives you a lot of perspective and empathy when you run into extremes trying to resolve racial issues in this country.

[@bkucenski]

@The One you know how I know you didn't read the book?

[@blargh3428]

@The One You realize he changed his mind on that issue before he was killed right?

[@thewoollyviking5928]

As much as I love the blood sports, this dude was super good faith! I’d love to see him talk to Vaush more in the future!

[@antibiotics1040]

The “hey buddy” at the start sounded so genuine and welcoming

[@slashingrobin665]

Tbh I usually get kind of a white habitus vibe from the channel, but if Vaush engages with those kinds of discussions more and talks about how that frame impacts our prejudices then I may low key stan for him 👍

[@SarahRoseCO10]

This was a fantastic convo, id love to hear more from STV in the future and I was super impressed with Vaush's ability to engage with the criticism in such good faith.

[@illpegyourdad973]

11/10, i lovvvvved this. Very mature and constructive, its a breath of fresh air

[@fcrw2120]

STV is such a nice guy. I totally sympathize with the nervously stumbling over your words while trying to criticize someone you like a lot. This convo was also very educational and made me re-think my own line of thought when criticizing content creators and/or acedemics. Thanks for coming on STV, i cant wait to watch more of your content, you seem like a very well thought-out guy. Much love ❤.

[@dime1012]

As a black kid who’s watched Vaush for almost 2 years now, I feel like Vaush kind of can down play the validity of the black perspective. He’s basically said being black has virtually no extra intellectual capital in relation to race issues. That being black doesn’t ‘mean’ you have a good argument. He’s highlighted this very much, without ever that I can remember highlighting the fact that having dealt with racism 24/7 your whole life could be very very beneficial in analyzing the depth and the many aspects racism has on the world.

[@tugger]

You will certainly have a much more informed experience. But him being an autist (as I am) I think he might be very literal when it means that it doesn't make a resulting argument sound (as in soundly structured according to the "orthodoxy" of formal debate)

[@alexj7440]

Yeah, it’s definitely a nuanced issue. Like if you’re going to listen to Candace Owens just because she’s black, that’s pretty dumb. But at the same time, if it’s someone like Cornell West then the fact that he’s black definitely augments his analysis of issues relating to race.

[@antonioscendrategattico2302]

Yeah, I'm afraid that the online debatesphere is not an environment that fosters nuance and since race is one of Vaush's blind spots for obvious reasons, I can definitely understand how it might feel like someone like him, who's constantly trying to "beat conservatives at their own game", might end up downplaying that aspect.

[@2FadeMusic]

@Robert Yeah exactly

[@antonioscendrategattico2302]

@Robert Yeah Case in point. That is NOT what OP was saying.

[@Snow-sx5ev]

Can't believe Destiny lost another debate smh

[@Ezunit1991]

This guys was probably nervous and trying to pick his words very carefully, but it became slightly annoying as I would forget his original subject by the time he got to the end of his thought. That being said, I bet he doesn’t do that when he’s in his element. You gotta pick words very carefully around the destiny, vaush, debate bro types as you can fumble your way into positions you don’t even hold if your not careful. So I get it, I understand it, but I wish I could re-listen to this same conversation after they both had a few beers and loosened up or something.

[@FerousFolly]

ngl, this is how my adhd presents when I'm trying to make a point that matters to me; because I have to translate my thoughts from abstract concepts into language as I say them I also have to consider carefully what translation to go with to best make my point. but, at the same time, sometimes I can lose track of my own initial point in the maze of convolution and clarification, which is a real pain I'm really grateful vaush didn't offer up any word or phrase suggestions to this guy because I know that immediately muddies the waters when I'm in this sort of state.

[@littlemoth4956]

@@FerousFolly Yeah, the best thing to do as the listener in that conversation is to just shut the hell up and let the person think. I also think it helps to articulate your thoughts beforehand, maybe have a conversation in your head about it first to concentrate and what points are important to you.

[@TheCherryTrader]

I do not know if Vaush reads the comments, but about people outside his demographic watching - I am shepherdess from northern Wales, and I watch all your videos ^^

[@Stop_The_Car]

Nice profile pic.

[@bicthboy4life619]

Can y’all please credit the guy in this video in the description?? Took me so long to figure out who this was

[@r-pupz7032]

^^^^^^^

[@shinjite06]

Who is he then? You didn't say either. 😭

[@MikeSpike117]

It’s in the thumbnail as well

[@TROBassGuitar]

@@shinjite06 stv philly

[@Superbajt]

@@MikeSpike117 Was it from the start? I don't remember the SVTPhilly's name to be there when I clicked on it.

[@daddykarlmarx6183]

This made me subscribe to stv, love from the steel city brother

[@nothingissacrosanct]

this dude is attributing rising violence in philly that is also rising in major cities all across the country to policy enacted by a mayor that had already lowered violent and property crime before 2020. he is actually suggesting that "progressive policy" was what sent crime skyrocketing in 2020, which could not be further from the truth. something very important happened in 2020... can you guess what? yeah, the pandemic increased the violent crime, especially murders, of every major city significantly. philly's crime has been on a sharp downturn since around 2010, and it was still dropping in the months leading up to covid. of course, as all economic stressors do, it damaged the job market, access to social services, stock market, and very often employers had to cut pay to save their profits. this had an earth-shattering effect on impoverished neighborhoods, to an extent that people in middle-class neighborhoods just cant really understand, as the great recession did in 2008. i grew up during the recession in a poor and crime-ridden city in the poorest and most crime-ridden neighborhood, so i understand where theyre coming from, but theyre wrong, and his seeming lack an understanding of crimes ebbs and flows depending on the socioeconomic state of the country make that apparent, otherwise they wouldnt have made that misattribution. the cause of the rapid uptick in crime in philly isnt a mayor, because -- as i stated -- crime went *down* under his leadership up until the pandemic, but is the pandemic itself and americas inability to take care of the people who need it most, leading to more so than ever in the 21st century crime being the only way people can survive, and the crime is just as vicious and competitive as it was in the crack epidemic. however, we dont blame individual, small-scale politicians for that, do we?

[@TROBassGuitar]

Yeah I had thought that you know prosecuting sex workers and abolishing bail for non violent/ low level crimes wouldn't increase murder lol

[@tugger]

the pandemic AND the insane housing bubble the correlation between gentrification and local property crime is extensively documented

[@spicytunah8043]

Can attest, it’s rising everywhere. Austin is generally a very safe city, but crime has been on the rise since Katrina, and has increased sharply over the last 2 years. There are homeless people everywhere now due to the housing bubble, and the riots did a number on us as well. It’s a shame, because I love my city, and I hate to see it falling apart like this from incompetent leadership to the issues all of us are facing.

[@BigaloMax]

@@TROBassGuitar I don't think he was attributing the decriminalization of sex work to the increases in murders but rather the Immediate firing of overly aggressive cops. Which i mean i get but like Vaush said hopefully its just growing pains and we can turn things around . And yes I'm sure the increase in violence correlates more whit the increases in poverty rather then whit the cutting of the fat out of our police department .

[@shannon81726]

don’t live in philly but live quite close and keep up with the politics. honestly I agree with you completely. I can attest to the fact that Larry Krasner and his progressive ideologies aren’t the issue and to see that it just requires a basic understanding of the socioeconomic status of people and the effects that has on crime

[@jacktaylor6690]

This was good. I like the honest and kind critique.

[@SewerMatt]

STVPhilly is so sweet this is such a nice conversation

[@joeyjose727]

I do think Vaush should do 2 part titles... like “I’ve never conceded so quickly | Talking with STVphilly

[@uninstaller2860]

Yes, this is some really good points! They'd work with the misogyny jokes, too. People outside of the typical demographic might be watching and never do it again, because of unfortunate timing.

[@arcuscerebellumus8797]

Aww. This convo was sweet almost to the point of being disgusting. Not quite there, but very close. I like it very much when people are friends for a change. Especially when it comes to criticism.

[@xenosbreed]

I think you could see the moment it clicked in his brain when he realized he was in the wrong, when STV Philly juxtaposed the soft touch with Rittenhouse with how hard he went into that one take. It was such a good discussion

[@StormCrownSr]

It's essentially baked-in systemic racism that's been living rent free in your head, but you never knew it was there.

[@cooper5324]

The main criticism in this video is that recently Vaush appears to be hyper focusing on the “black conservative” and that may appear to overlap with criticism of leftwing people. The fear is that when Vaush tries to make a distinction between himself and other leftwing voices he could be used as an example for conservatives on why leftism is bad, and/or drowning out other voices.

[@StormCrownSr]

But he gets treated like that either way, so you might as well do the more right thing.

[@jacktaylor6690]

BTW THIS 100% SHOULD HAVE BEEN MAIN CHANNEL!

[@celery8059]

45 min of two nice lads hugging it out

[@etqz680]

This was nice! The guest had great insights and I respect Vaush for constantly trying to improve and mentally grow as a content creator.

[@jucecaiman6408]

AYEE! I'm super glad bro called in about this. Its a good convo to have with Vaush and while i haven't been watching this channel long I get that Vaush is open to these ideas . Good shit.

[@thegravedigger032]

33:31 I think this is really the main reason I stuck with vaush after watching all of "bad takes" something about his advocacy seems way more genuine

[@podpoe]

Vaush you should absolutely have on more people who dont fall within the typical demo of your current viewers!! I think it would not only bring you perspective, but also perspective to viewers

[@kza6648]

Grandma stream!

[@normalrings5659]

Vaush rad vaush bad, we be vowsh lads

[@Chase_Ryan]

BARZ

[@iPsychlops]

I loved this. STV I subscribed. Vaush, Good job receiving criticism.

[@justinharris2320]

Omg, I have been saying this for so long. Me and my friend even discuss it. His blindspots when it comes to race have been painful at times. And it's only painful because I know he could do better. Now the people in the comments who defend his blindspots and bad takes are another story, lol

[@chronomage13]

The initial part of the conversation was painful. Dude criticizes the DA in philly then basically provides no reason as to why he is frustrated with the DA. Violent crime is up everywhere and the DA having a few progressive policies isnt driving it. People not understanding fucking anything about statistics will doom all of us.

[@jovian7983]

feel like you’re being a little harsh, he was clearly extremely nervous in the beginning, I wouldn’t judge him to bad for not giving his fully laid out argument in the beginning

[@IAmTheBugInsideYou]

He was certainly stumbling over himself & not being thorough enough to really nail down what he was talking about so it comes off as rambling for sure, but that's just something to work on.

[@Liryca]

I was only partly paying attention during this section, but what I got from it is that STV in principle would like to support that DA and their politics, but seeing that the policies implemented haven't had the intended effect (whether causative or correlative) of improving conditions in philly, it's been frustrating both dealing with worsening conditions and defending the DA. A bit of rambling sure, but sufficiently clear I'd say

[@dime1012]

Dam I wish I could’ve experienced the off screen lore of the debate panel mentioned at the start.

[@woahfishbowl]

Thanks Vaush I will have good luck on my next fishing trip

[@no009limit]

Drinking game: Take a shot every time stv apologizes before he even speaks.

[@j.c.jeggis1818]

I'm glad Vaush conceded on the point about not seeking out the worst takes of the person. The comments on the Second Thought video were full of criticisms about this, because he deliberately sought out the most contentious video in an attempt to "find out if he was sus". I didn't think that was fair or good faith and I hope Vaush gets better about this.

[@quedolapantera7623]

tbf i believe vaush started saying that he overall thought well of second thought but he heard that some of their videos were sussy

[@j.c.jeggis1818]

@@quedolapantera7623 Basically my beef was that he went to ST's channel, assumed the nature of the content based solely on certain titles, then tried to find the most contentious one, then paused every 5 seconds trying to pick it apart. He approached it like we were dunking on a PragerU video for fun, and I found that unfair to somebody who is very clearly good faith like Second Thought.

[@occasional_doomer]

@@j.c.jeggis1818 I mean, his contention was that ST had at least tankie adjacent views of China, which is True? So not sure why it’s bad Vaush points that out. Edit: Also, tankie are a cancer on the left. They should be ruthlessly criticized. Like you can say “well his other videos are good,” but it’s a deal breaker, at least for for me, if someone cheer leads aesthetically left authoritarian states.

[@uninstaller2860]

I'm too lazy to watch every ST video, so I was just glad if Vaush could find his worst takes. That way I know how far they lean in some direction, so that I can keep that in mind next time I enjoy a ST video in the future. Vaush can call ST's takes sussywussy or whatever, but I can make my own judgement at the same time.

[@quedolapantera7623]

@@j.c.jeggis1818 I understand your point but from what I recall Vaush was agreeing with everything Second Thought said until the China take. I recognize that I'm biased towards Vaush but I don't remember him being antagonistic at any other moment.

[@anneonymous9338]

This makes me feel warm and fuzzy; I love it 😊🥰😊 It's nice to see civility and understanding

[@slowloris2894]

This guy was great. He seemed so nervous which I hope hes doing okay now. But this was great criticism and Vaush took it well.

[@Bostonceltics1369]

learning so much from Stv Philly's approach. The way they critique is very respectful, adopt this technique.

[@ianperry8557]

This was such a great discussion I really hope Vaush and the community as I have can get a better understanding of this issue.

[@Redrios]

this is so tender and sweet and i can feel the love and warmth of good faith and humanity

[@lilacrimosa]

32:00 I think you hit the nail on the head here Vaush. Since you've blown up in the last year, you've sort of started catering more toward the audience that already agrees with you and just pander to them with clickbaity things for entertainment purposes. I, personally, prefer when you go back to your roots and actually provide content that addresses thought patterns outside of our own online leftist sphere, when you consider the "single mom from east LA" or whatnot. It just feels like more productive content even if it doesn't get you the most views.

[@StormCrownSr]

To be fair, Kyle Kulinski is that and more. He even has a suit.

[@lilacrimosa]

@@StormCrownSr yeah I don’t watch Kyle Kulinski at all because of that lol

[@StormCrownSr]

@@lilacrimosa Look, as a disciple of Big Seltzer, discounts be upon him, give him a chance. Even if you disagree with him, I think you'll find that it's because of ideology and not because he's stupid and wrong. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

[@vantahawk2834]

While I congratulate Vaush's shift in perspective to consider black people as potential recipients of his content and rhetoric, and not just subjects of discourse for him and his audience to revolve around, I do find it rather amusing that it took a real life interaction for him to think about that as opposed to the many black creators who have gestured towards that very point in their critiques of him.

[@vantahawk2834]

@John Cobblepot How am I being disingenuous when this is basically what Vaush admitted himself (except for the part about other black creators)? Obv Vaush's tone was nicer with himself but that is all. Sorry if the more stripped back tone offends you. As I said, ultimately I am happy about the change; this is not me being spiteful. But it remains interesting in light of what it took for that change to come about. That's all.

[@l000tube]

What an awesome conversation. Thanks both.

[@greenmountaingrower4680]

Philly pd dropped bombs from a helicopter on their own citizens and destroyed 2 city blocks with the resulting fire and witheld the fire department for hrs. Good old frank rizzo quite possibly the worst human being to ever call phly home

[@jeffgojail]

Those citizens were keeping an entire block hostage with machine guns. Did Goode fuck up? Of course. But don't try to paint MOVE as some virtuous group of ordinary citizens. They were scumbags and criminals. I was actually living in Philadelphia when that happened and the myth surrounding it is far different from the reality. Last year a man took Broad street hostage i the middle of the afternoon from his window with a semi automatic rifle and Let 'em Loose Larry let it go on for hours because he was afraid to let the police shoot the guy. His job is to lock up criminals, not let them go. His job is to protect the citizens from criminals, not from the police. He's a fucking disaster and he just had to go crying on television for acting like a smug prick

[@jeffgojail]

Also, Wilson Goode, Philly's 1st black mayor, was the mayor when that happened, not Rizzo you dipstick. Rizzo was long gone. This is what I'm talking about when I say the is far different from the reality

[@Romanticoutlaw]

we love to see it

[@apisto9783]

Great convo! My main critique of voosh is providing too much insular content while he has the ability to be far more wide reaching

[@LyricalTampon]

I live in Philly and follow local politics closely. This guy is honestly living in an alternate reality. Krasner's role as DA has had zero impact on crime in Philly. There's literally no evidence any of his positions or behaviors has had any impact on quality of life, even if he talks a big game. Crime in Philly has tracked basically along the same exact lines it has in every other major city with comparable population and socioeconomic position.

[@muticancan123]

Could you get me some data on this please? I don't really know STV Philly, but I'm obviously more willing to trust someone who talked to Vaush over a commenter (I mean that in the most respectful way possible).

[@nottachance8554]

Shootings are up 25% under him what do you mean lol?

[@muticancan123]

@@nottachance8554 I was literally just asking to data. Relax. Also, aren't shootings up everywhere in the US?

[@nottachance8554]

@@muticancan123 I was trying to reply to the original commenter my bad, and yeah post covid shootings are up but not to the degree they are in Philly

[@nyshyn307]

I live in Philly too and STV is definitely right that crime is more abundant. A lot of missteps were taken during the pandemic in particular, there were noticeable spikes when police weren't making arrests for a short period of time and things definitely haven't "calmed" although it's not an extreme difference

[@eccentriastes6273]

STV: Vaush bad Vaush: tru

[@swampmiester7603]

I see the easiest solution to this problem being to rep our boy shark more

[@rebbecawitt581]

I think that the thing about Vaush being kinda antagonistic to black people is very applicable to how he talks about saint andrewism, I think he's overly antagonistic to them unfairly. Calling them a black nationalist and putting them together with people like pf and all that.

[@JokerDoom]

To be fair, black nationalism/superiority is a popular idea in the broader black community. I’ll have debates with my friends, some of whom are black, and a weird pattern tends to emerge. The white people I debate are sometimes racially insensitive but they often don’t have ill intentions, they’re just ignorant and they try to be the best they can. Not all of them, I’ve fought with outright racists too of course. But broadly, white people tend to be well meaning and try to change when they learn how their behavior is bad. For a lot of black people I debate on the other hand, when you get them going, I find they actually harbor hatred toward white people as a whole. I’m called “one of the good ones”, or they suggest I’m the only white person that deserves to be alive, and that’s really disheartening and a bit racist. It happens in more than half of the debates I have with my black friends. Some have even gone so far as to call me black as if that’s a compliment. It’s like they’re saying I can’t be white since I’m not racist. Now, I’m not going to directly defend Vaush here. I think he’s been irresponsible with how he uses his platform when it comes to certain aspects of race relations and dealing specifically with racism within the black community. This is a really sensitive topic and you can’t make any assumptions until you’ve seen certain behaviors for yourself. Even so, after seeing racist behavior, it’s easy to dismiss entire people, especially content creators, simply because they’re racist or bigoted. Especially because that’s what we do with white content creators who are racist - we dismiss them wholesale. Unfortunately when it comes to non-white creators, they’ve had entirely different experiences and you can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater in the same way you can with white content creators who harbor racial hatred. That’s the point where I think Vaush really fails at. I watch some black content creators who are racist because they make a lot of salient points (even about racism) despite being severely bigoted in their own ways and occasionally going off the rails into a rant about how white people should be put in camps or something.

[@rebbecawitt581]

@@JokerDoom based analysis ngl

[@brianswinehart2595]

I'm 62. Listen to you all the time, Vaush.

[@GenZod21]

Just in case you're collecting data for your "demographics"....I'm a 44 yr old black Canadian male. Been watching for 18 months. Keep it up!! btw, great convo

[@Vessel22222]

27 year old Hispanic veteran here, enjoy yours, Hasan, and shoe’s material.

[@c0ttage]

I've had this same feeling, i love watching vaush but whenever he has an arc with a black person, i just can't stand them, I've never been able to articulate my feelings about that but i do agree with this guest

[@c0ttage]

I Do wish vaush would platform more black lefties, sometimes i feel pretty alienated in his chats and over topics cuz i just want some ready of sunshine black people

[@kdawg2468]

Dude is so nice and super smart. Definitely the most wholesome person i've seen in vaush's videos.

[@Bless3757]

Can you please add this to the 'Vaush Friendly Conversations' playlist? You and STVPhilly made me really happy with this one, really lovely stuff cx

[@Darkerxz]

This is the first time he loses a debate that's wild

[@lurkingposter]

He lost his first debate with Sargon.

[@XCeazyX]

@@lurkingposter hello sargon

[@darkranger116]

@@lurkingposter Hahahahahaha, thats a good one man i havnt laughed that hard in a while

[@IMatchoNation]

@@lurkingposter Yes and no; he won the arguments easily, but I agree he lost on the optics.

[@JeepnHeel]

He also lost to Contra -- that was the one where Destiny got destroyed

[@thomaasfist6494]

I think the guest was correct in his analysis of Vaush when it comes to black people. Personally I felt Vaush engaged with the Tucker/Rittenhouse interview in a very empathetic manner which I was a bit surprised by because I think Vaush has the ability to view most people/situations from several different perspectives that ultimately play a major role in his own beliefs about said person or situation. With Rittenhouse I felt like he had an overly empathetic disposition which doesn’t mean he thought well of Rittenhouse instead it felt he related to Rittenhouse in an unconscious way. This empathic disposition is not present in Vaushes criticism of black people like Ibram X Kendi which I think he should continue to criticize when he feels it’s necessary. A solution in my mind that makes sense is for Vaush to recognize that he may want to consciously sprinkle in positive videos of different black people to show a more well rounded perspective of black people. I am sure Vaush positively mentioned India Walton the socialist candidate who got robbed of the mayor seat in Buffalo, NY. Maybe doing a deep dive video about her would have been appropriate

[@jascu4251]

I was wondering about this, and I'd come to a kind of conclusion that on a subconscious level maybe he was overcompensating for earlier takes on Rittenhouse (and other things like the 'police planting evidence' video that turned out different once the full video was shown)

[@thomaasfist6494]

@@jascu4251 I didn’t consider that but I think added to my reason it seems more plausible because it’s almost never just one thing.

[@StormCrownSr]

I always try and pay attention and to chat because it can be really funny. And I wasn't disappointed. "Dude stop apologising it's fine REEEEEEEEE"

[@TEHBILB]

Vaush: "call an ambulance... BUT NOT FOR YOU"

[@xoutofstep]

good convo about an important subject.

[@Infinite_voyager]

Is there a link for the debate where they first interacted? I’m your Hispanic audience voosh

[@whyarelikethis1753]

Hey 31/ Male (Him/He) At birth, half Spanish (Puerto Rican) and half Italian (haven't found out that sides hisitorsy yet). I enjoy vaush daily and I am enjoying this while smoking a bowl and playing skyrim.

[@ianperry8557]

Very pog

[@ianperry8557]

Cause I am also smoking and playing Skyrim lmfao

[@8bitdiedie]

1000% BASED

[@pozluz]

As a fellow mid-thirties millennial from the east coast, I whole-heartedly agree with this dude's take on Vaush.

[@bert0534]

This guy is the first opponent to intellectually outpace Vaush since Sargon of Akkad Jokes aside this was all around a very wholesome convo. STVPhilly just gained a new sub.

[@Zomik02]

Now That's What I Call a Quality Conversation

[@KloeKaos]

this is main channel worthy, this is commendable