Limited Resources 764 - Sierkovitz on Bloomburrow and Speed of the Format

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Limited Resources

Күн бұрын

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@MagicDad 3 ай бұрын

"POND PROPHET!" -in the tune of the Hot Pockets jingle

@duncanengel5146 3 ай бұрын

Robots in disguise!

@MagicDad 3 ай бұрын

@@duncanengel5146 LOL love it

@allengaible6436 3 ай бұрын

The speed of the format definitely affects my enjoyment. There have been way too many games in Bloomburrow where I replay the games and say "yep, both players played correctly (and there weren't that many choices) and it ended very quickly." For some reason, I liked MKM a good bit more than Bloomburrow and OTJ slightly more than Bloomburrow. But I am not a huge fan of any of these formats.

@Pandercolour 3 ай бұрын

there hasn't been a good limited format since like, NEO. MOM was okay, and i could see it argued to be a good set, but it's been YEARS since there's been something good.

@geogerf 3 ай бұрын

Love the on-the-fly sign-off with Medieval Times! Best part (as a kid) was you got to eat with your hands!

@ben_clifford 3 ай бұрын

17:35 I may spec on this card for P1P1. The only time I've seen this card during this format, it soundly walloped me, all on the back of this single bomb rare. I couldn't help but think, "This guy got the best birds deck." But after ruminating on it for a few weeks, I think first-picking an amazing bird and being open to the bird deck can sometimes pay off. Because literally no one else is drafting the darn thing.

@fpejanovic 3 ай бұрын

the problem is you need good blue uncommons/rares to be opened and wheeling. god forbid someone else has the same line of thinking and there is another blue drafter at the table - you're both screwed.

@sethc.1366 3 ай бұрын

@@fpejanovic Just had a draft where I got three Plumecreed Escorts in a row, and said screw it, I'm taking them. Got a 7th pick Kastral as a reward, and was able to fill it out with mostly strong white commons and uncommons. We'll see how it does

@fpejanovic 3 ай бұрын

@@sethc.1366 yea you got lucky. Look at Cheons day 2 draft 2 deck last weekend. total failure

@ben_clifford 3 ай бұрын

@@fpejanovic fair enough

@tedhand6237 3 ай бұрын

Now I want to hear about Sierkovitz's interest in the 16th century Baroque in Middle Poland.

@janusztarczykowski9003 2 ай бұрын

In general polish history in X-XVII century is super interesting, I recommend getting into it ;) from fighting Teutonic knights under Grunwald to Husars its super cool

@BenSchwartz00 2 ай бұрын

Marshall and Luis talking about different “medieval times” but still being just as excited as one another is hilarious

@nikmidclayton5933 3 ай бұрын

Marshall needs to watch The Cable Guy to see Medieval Times

@dude4057 3 ай бұрын

I think you get into U when you get 7-9 pick Daring Waverider or Shoreline Looter. Then in pack 2 you can pick the premium removal or the busted rare. I do think Kastral is worth P1P1, the top players have 62% game in hand win rate with it. I trophied with two Kastrals. Looking at other trophy UW decks you need the multiple copies of the UW uncommon or a mythic Season. LSV saying 2-3 out of every 100 drafts seems right to me. I think blue also is difficult to pilot. When do you use counterspells, when is it safe to tap out, when do you blink first are all difficult game play decisions.

@Sephiroth0X 3 ай бұрын

Yet another banger limited format this year! I especially liked the part where wgb wasn't better than everything else!

@Tapewars 3 ай бұрын

Im liking alchemy a lot. Feels like a balance patch for the set, a lot of the archetypes are a lot closer in power i feel, and findonf your lane pays off way more. BLB classic is you better start B/G/W cards, and finish in GW, BG, BR, UG, or lose.

@tulejumal 3 ай бұрын

If you watch the video, its exactly opposite of that for regular bloom. Only 2 archetypes are behind others in win rate in a notable way. Its more balances that it seems at first. Alchemy drafts are: pick the stronger alchemy card compared to regular sets, so you feel better about your decka power level but i wouldny say its better than regular. Id wager its actually more unbalanced in colour power.

@51gunner 3 ай бұрын

I feel like I keep starting with white cards because WG is great and 2/3 of the other colors are good and then see what starts passing to me. This seems to land me in WR a lot because red cards are passing, and I waste a couple picks on black or green cards lol.

@51gunner 3 ай бұрын

I think "format speed" is almost a misleading way to describe it, it's just shorter than saying "minimum possible time before I feel like I'm in a hopeless position". LCI was "fast" but it's apparently not as fast as LTR, but I don't recall LTR feeling super "fast'. The difference is really more on the play/draw difference and I think a LOT of that comes down to how good the one and two-drops are. If your opponents' 1 drop is making you wonder how you're going to get rid of it because it's either annoying & evasive or just growing... yeah. In LCI you'd face down a Ruin-Lurker Bat and realize that this 1-drop is going to either get in several times and cause a 6-10 point life swing over the course of the game, or you need a flier or removal spell to prevent that or *at least* the kind of counterattack that demands they hold it back to chump. In BLB it's that Heartfire Hero or Valley Mightcaller that you just know is going to be an escalating problem. Sometimes you never answer it and the game's over turn 4-5, sometimes you do get the removal and realize you spent your one copy of Fell on a one-drop and lose later. Either way, you feel behind from turn 2.

@kevincressman1267 3 ай бұрын

A L G O R I T H M G A N G

@petrbrozekmtg 3 ай бұрын

To me, UR seems to suffer from being drafted and played suboptimaly. There are players with 65+% winrate with Izzet. The deck is dependent on certain cards to be opened for sure, but if those are opened in your pod and you are the only UR drafter (which is almost always the case), the deck could be good.

@51gunner 3 ай бұрын

With an archetype like that though, it seems like it'd only come together with a super-lucky Sealed pool, or drafting it together on pure hope. Do you P1P1 a good Otter and just pray the uncommons come your way, and are you utterly hooped if your pod just doesn't open many of them?

@petrbrozekmtg 3 ай бұрын

@@51gunner I usually end up in UR after starting with good cards in either blue or red and receiving UR payoffs later in the pack 1 (see them wheeling). Or by seeing UR flowing after starting in different color, that dries up. Even after first picking good U/R card (which is not necassary an otter payoff, there are generally good U/R cards), I am not married to the strategy, which is true for any first pick anyway, so there is no problem in that. Not opening good uncommons in the pod could be a problem, but it is true for any deck.

@oDMACo 3 ай бұрын

The problem with format speed isn't the average game finishing early. It's the otp wins where you lose to the opponents draw and the cards don't exist in the set to be in with a chance of coming back. These games shouldn't exist in limited and it's a byproduct of pushing the power level of 2 mana creatures.

@holotori_senior_admin_teno 3 ай бұрын

See, I assumed that's what LSV was referring to from the start. And I've never actually been to a Medieval Times.

@cullenclark 3 ай бұрын

Green is by far the best color in this format

@allengaible6436 3 ай бұрын

I agree that the green cards have the highest individual power level and the most powerful decks. It just might not be at this exact moment because of overdrafting.

@SymmetricalDocking 3 ай бұрын

Black is so close that you can't really say "by far".

@Skrzrock 3 ай бұрын

It seems like green cards are individually the best cards but black has such great removal and is good in all 4 of the combinations. Like Sierk said it actually pairs well with red which green for whatever reason really doesn't. I feel like gruul is way too dependant on the wandertale mentors and sometimes they just don't come around.

@cullenclark 3 ай бұрын

@@Skrzrock in my opinion, black is just as dependent on certain cards when paired with red. If you don’t get the lizard mentor or Gev then the deck doesn’t work

@Skrzrock 3 ай бұрын

@@cullenclark Thats fair. I havent played rakdos much and when I have its because I started witha gev. Even with gev I wasnt super impressed unless I hit my curve perfect

@daringtraveler 3 ай бұрын

ummmm..... again, I'm going to point this out about sazacap's brew: targeted ability - meaning triggers valiant. also, discard and draw 2. It's.... fine in Boros mice. But hear me out: What if Izzet is Mice/Otter combo? Turn 2 whiskerquill scribe. Turn 3 sazacap's brew with pump, now discard 2, draw 3. Maybe you can also hit one of the 1 mana spells as well. You can play might of the meek and shore up at instant speed, thereby targeting whiskerquill scribe again for another discard and draw. Turn 4 eddymurk crab. Again and again I see everyone detailing Izzet as if it's a control deck. And yet, I have now 10 trophies, 3 in the last week, by viewing it as Izzet Aggro. The signpost common literally says "haste" and prowess" which tells me it isn't removal spells deck - it's pump spells deck. Might of the meek, shore up, sazacap's brew, whiskerquill scribe, heartfire hero, and tempest angler have all been fantastic in this deck for me. Splash Portal is so-so, it tends to be just another way to fill up the grave. By the way, the red festival enchantment - don't sleep on it in this style. Bellowing crier and shoreline looter are also good in this deck because of their ability to discard away spells, which also makes mindwhisker good. It is not uncommon for me to have threshold by turn 5 for mindwhisker, and occasionally I've hit it turn 4. It completely shuts down aggro. I have only 2 out of 12 drafts where this didn't get all 7 wins, and only has a total of 10 match losses in that entire run. Most of those losses came from mana screw. That said, you'll notice there's quite a few uncommons in here, so I only recommend if you izzet is wide open. Edit: everything I said about Izzet is also true of Azorius - You want birds' triggered abilities to be targeting mice with the valiant mechanic. Too many people are viewing Azorius as early control with dazzling denial, sugar coat, and dire downdraft, and that doesn't work. Mainly this is because your thought shuckers and nightwhorl hermits don't have the stats to match up against other decks. But target that flowering mouse thing and pumping some mice - now that does work and puts pressure on your opponent. I don't mind like 1 copy of into the flood maw or downdraft in these decks in case I'm facing down an extremely aggressive boros valiant deck that likely has more ways to pressure me.

@fpejanovic 3 ай бұрын

drafting unintuitive archetypes doesnt make those colors/color pairs good. you also need to be the only person at the table doing it, otherwise you're going to have a pile of garbage.

@daringtraveler 3 ай бұрын

@@fpejanovic That's just my issue - I believe it should be intuitive - a 2 mana 1/1 with haste (and prowess) suggests that this is an aggro spells deck. I do however, agree that it needs to be wide open, as this style relies on a lot of uncommons. The good thing, though, is that Izzet is wide open like 90% of the time.

@MesserBen 3 ай бұрын

It sounds like speed is not the best metric to use for set quality. It’s easy to measure, but clearly isn’t telling a consistent story. The most fun games seem to be where both decks show up and there is good interaction between them. Not sure how to construct a numeric metric for that. Maybe using some sort of conditional probability?

@Princeofseance 3 ай бұрын

Win percentage of on draw vs on play is a good metric

@SymmetricalDocking 3 ай бұрын

@@Princeofseance That directly correlates with Format Speed. Just like how if a set is fast it correlates highly with being bad, and slow with good. Speed's a useful heuristic and shouldn't be thrown away just because we had the one time where MOM was fast but very interactive and enjoyable.

@ZaphodTube 3 ай бұрын

amount of durdeling is my most important metric. The more durdle card draw slower games, the more fun I have - in 5 colors. Hope the next set is more like this.

@51gunner 3 ай бұрын

Power of the 1-drops and 2-drops is probably a metric for that. If you're facing an Brave-Kin Duo + Heartfire Hero combo, an ever-growing Hired Claw or Valley Mightcaller, a growing board of rabbits with a Burrowguard mentor and Warren Elder threatening you... these are all pretty bad situations and none of them need to involve creatures of MV 3+. I can't think of a lot of sweepers in the set other than Starfall Invocation, and black's removal is generally more expensive than any of these threats.

@prospero20000 3 ай бұрын

I wonder if this format has a fast clock because the mana is atrocious. A lot of non games because you can’t cast your spells.

@51gunner 3 ай бұрын

There's definitely a few games for sure where one keeps (or is forced to keep?) a hand with only one of their colors. I've gone for risky keeps for sure - 2 Plains and no Mountain in opening hand, and just hoping the red source shows up.

@tulejumal 3 ай бұрын

First 10 minutes 2 ads, gettin unwatchable youtube

@WyattHendrix-mq4wc 3 ай бұрын

The discussion about color strength just feeds into what Luis is saying, in that there's still an optimal amount of times you would be in a certain color. Because strong players understand this better, they have closer win rates because they are drafting the colors at optimal rates. Sierkovitz seems to admit this, but then indicates that there is no "best color". If 20 out of 100 drafts I can draft a good Green + something deck, and only 3 times out of 100 I can draft a good blue + something deck, then green is the better color. I just did not believe what he was saying at all about color strength. Maybe he has a point, and it might be worth checking out his thread on it, but looking just at this discussion it didn't seem convincing at all.