Longsword vs Messer

[@Diremouse42]

Messer...now THATS a knife! 😅 had to. Messer did better than i thought it would.

[@ObsidianBox]

As someone who uses Messer against longsword in spars quite often, what the messer lacks in length it makes up for in presence in the bind and in displacing the opponents weapon. There are actually quite a few techniques that are meant for opposing a weapon with longer reach like a longsword or even a montante. That being said, to be effective in Messer against a longsword or really any weapon with a longer reach, you have to be confident in closing space and grappling. I did wrestling and taekwondo so grappling comes naturally for me.

[@AmazingJMS]

Agree.

[@dude123nice6]

Aren't there longer messers?

[@ObsidianBox]

@dude123nice6 there are, within langesmesser there isnt too much variation in length, more width of the blades and false edge vs no false edge. You have großmesser which is in between that and the kriegsmesser, however once you get to kriegsmesser length, it limits the messer unique technigues and functions more like a single edge longsword.

[@dude123nice6]

@@ObsidianBox i mean, considering how much of an advantage range is, is there even a point to choosing messer specific options over longer reach?

[@thehollowlingwin]

@dude123nice6 To chim in, I think it's important to think about the context of why people carried a Langesmesser or an arming sword back in the day vs. longer weapons. Like carrying around a longsword, for example, in your everyday life while doing tasks could easily get in the way due to its length, plus you could argue if you need to defend yourself especially in a tight space it could be easier to get the shorter weapon out faster. Then there's cost, was likely cheaper to have a shorter weapon produced, and with a single hand weapon you get the benefit of always having your off hand available to do something with to help yourself out...like pommel throwing or pocket sand

[@xanderlewell]

Even just watching these bouts, the length advantage of the Longsword is frankly undeniable, but the maneuverability of the Messer definitely offers some advantage getting up closer. Not enough to outclass the longsword, but even I could see the difference.

[@williammclyr3330]

Longsword can be used very effectively in close combat with halfswording

[@jonathanrose5490]

​@williammclyr3330 in my experience if you're already in close with a messer v longsword, the extra half - whole tempo you need to transition to halfsword will get you got. Half-swording is great at winning a strong bind but the messer fencer is not likely going to try and face the longsword with strength. They will go weak in the bind, shedding, cutting around and under. But that's all only applicable if the messer user can close, which is not easy and exhausting in an extended multi-round fight.

[@Fish2049]

Yes, less restrictive in movements I’ve experienced

[@Fish2049]

When I spar against longer weapons I find it good to traverse and look for an opening that way, always in circles and going arm>head>torso>legs as a general hierarchy of ranges. I’ve seen some experts like Nick Thomas write about that it’s not convenient to go offline and that going in a straight line is the fastest way to get from point A to point B. However I’ve also seen other schools of thought like superior HEMA channel where they say that despite losing reach the idea of getting in from where the opponents weapon is not seems like a good idea. Personally I think constantly going offline gives you these advantages: 1. A different road from which the opponent is facing, thus having your line of attack directly aimed at them while they (hopefully in the nach) have to react and adjust to your movement. 2. Better angle of attack/ they have to parry wider or follow you. 3. Lets you get away in a different manner to going straight back. Disadvantages: 1. Less reach in the approach. 2. It may add extra steps to lead to the same outcome. Be linear when you need, be circular when you have to, that is my take. Please leave your opinion I want to know it :)

[@schonnj]

Someone brought a knife to a sword fight.

[@spikem5950]

Introducing: The kriegsmesser!

[@thomasflores7817]

this was so entertaining to watch, more of these kinds of videos please

[@Jack-fn7by]

What I've found is that while messers do struggle against longswords, the fight becomes much fairer if the messer user is carrying a buckler or a dagger in their off-hand

[@skater_kid2832]

That was really cool I love the idea of trying different swords against long sword would love to see more

[@Spyronite913]

I love these videos with asymetrical weapons!

[@torreyjones4421]

Now I want to see messer paired with a sail dagger in the offhand to see how that changes things!

[@shadowfox6259]

Out of curiosity do, would using something like a Krieg messer instead of a Langes messer potentially make a difference? I ask only because of the slightly longer reach of those. Also would incorporating more nale counters work or is the reach of the longsword to great for it to be functional. Also love the amazing content!

[@luisyanez6261]

Yes, it would. Kinda. The way a lot of people (including meself) see it, the difference between langes and kriegs would be length, with the latter being more of a longsword length. As such, even if it was a lil shorter (like, say, a sigi kriegsmesser) it would be used the same way and the difference in performance would be way smaller. But of course, terminology and classifications are artificial, constructs, and as such the difference between a langes and a kriegs may just be minor at best

[@jaketheasianguy3307]

Idea, get a really curved Kriegsmesser (like the Landsknecht emporium falke) and fence against longsworf, probably will gain even more view, since straight km seems to be too much longsword like

[@aspiringmarauder666]

I love it, I always think about this matchup for some reason.

[@thehollowlingwin]

I just thought of a fun way to redo this. Maybe try messer vs. longsword in a confined space, like with the reverse grip video in the alleyway?

[@lyooyiylklykyokyklky]

I love messer, but longsword is just more effective for the majority of people. Range is armour.

[@enderduck4253]

I don't know a lot about fencing, but 2:06 looked super cool

[@derekstack7479]

Do grosmesser/kriegsmesser v longsword. At least the length would be comparable as they're both two-handed weapons. The results here were nothing we didn't already know.

[@MrVairochana]

Hello there. What about the ringen am schwert, inner circle techniques, if you have a shorter knife? Or try kriegsmesser or vor nach nach... 🙂

[@Pavel_Stepan]

Any reason why not be more aggressive with messer, in closing distance / going for bind / tying into brawl ? Considering length advantage of longsword ?

[@SellswordArts]

Because it's scary to rush someone with a longer sword.

[@Pavel_Stepan]

@@SellswordArts best answer :)

[@chocomalk]

@@SellswordArts This is legit. I had a KungFu teacher that used to always say: "You have to bring ass to kick ass". He said it was the most valuable lesson he could teach and it boils down to fearless commitment.

[@SellswordArts]

Not in sword fighting. You need to fear the weapon. A healthy respect for what it can do to you in one quick hit is necessary, unless you're trying to kill yourself along with your opponent

[@chocomalk]

@@SellswordArts Not fear, respect the weapon. I know what you are saying but leaving yourself behind when you need to be committed is a death sentence.

[@TheChromeRonin]

Sparring with the messer vs longsword, yeah, I get owned a LOT, but, I have found, if I am a little more patient, keep the messer steep either up or down, I can get in close enough to either grapple or get a hit. Going for the hands and arms of the longsword opponent just leave me too exposed. But it recrosses so fast, at least mine does, as a littte shortie messer, and is just so much fun. 8)

[@anonymouslee2083]

That reach is scary

[@iamalaser4185]

Would be cool to see messer vs dussack

[@jankarieben1071]

What about pairing a single hand sword with a buckler, I’ve had great results with that combo over longsword, but my fencing partner is just learning too 🍻❤️🤺

[@Mischievous_Moth]

I feel like Messer + Buckler would have a much better time, especially after that first hand shot.

[@daveburklund2295]

I think the long sword is simply... Longer

[@echo3-150]

The Krigesmesser would have been a better choice.

[@ralynedin]

Now do rapier vs rondel

[@safwatnuman4297]

Messer and shield vs long sword would be greatly different

[@HEMASimian]

So many of the longsword strikes were flat because of your rapid encroachment of measure - if we look at the level of "trades" for the doubles or afterblow, you came pretty far ahead in a lot of those exchanges

[@zerrrp]

The guy using the messer looks really familiar for some reason edit: my fucking dumbass.

[@seem03fox]

Do not mess with a messer. Because messer is literally the weapon for messing porpuse

[@Zephyn]

Messer got pwned. Maybe a good choice in narrow or closed spaces? Can that be confirmed? But Longsword is undoubtedly better.

[@desaturatedair]

claymore vs longsword when

[@farfarux]

Can we get a longsword vs Grosse Messer? That would be more equal I think

[@thestig6281]

Can you talk about the shikomizue pls

[@unknownuser8539]

I read this as Longsword vs Messmer, and I was hoping for a analysis with elden ring boss mechanics smh

[@gustavchambert7072]

Sooo If you if you find yourself taking a knife to a sword fight, you had better not messer things up if you want to walk away? I'll see myself out.

[@dennit1221]

0 sense of distance :O

[@oneandonlyleo]

it seems you've been messering with it for quite a while now

[@Skraelingja]

At least give him a buckler...

[@thelivingbrick56]

Messer is a hand and a half right?

[@thehollowlingwin]

@thelivingbrick56 It's meant to be a one-handed sword, I believe it's theorized that its grip is a little longer to be used as a counterweight for balance but on some you could if you really needed to get a second hand on it.

[@TrueMentorGuidingMoonlight]

Depends on the messer type. Diff lengths of messer existed: langes, grosse, kriegs, etc. I've used a langes messer like in the video before, and it's generally better at being one-handed because of how short it is, and it pairs well with a buckler. Now, a kriegsmesser is more longsword-like with its length, and I'd use it two-handed more often because of that, but I could switch to one-handed at any time for various situations.

[@Fish2049]

@@thehollowlingwinyeah, although (take it with a grain of salt) when I see images of messer being used they sometimes have a thumb on the back of the grip. Like handshake but the thumb on the back of the handle. I imagine it restricts mobility of the wrist while also making long distance cuts and focus on shoulder movements better

[@thehollowlingwin]

@Fish2049 I don't think it necessarily had more benefits to shoulder movement, rather you need more of it to make up for the lack of grip strength when cutting from the wrist, although from what KZbinrs and from trying it myself with a sabre, it does give more point control. Unfortunately, I'm pretty new to practical applications of what I've seen online, so I'm just making an inference 😅

[@mannas273]

No way

[@sn00k24]

No kriegsmesser?

[@DyneTreal]

Now try kriegsmesser.

[@demarcuscason8631]

Smhg Isna

[@hassanjasim524]

🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈؟؟