The Secrets of the Dwarf Slayers! Lorebeards w/ Andy Law & Loremaster of Sotek

[@loremasterofsotek]

It has come to my attention that I may be somehow suffering from "the Mandela Effect" about the Female Ogre Maneater I brought up in the Q&A section at the end of the livestream. I could SWEAR I've read that story somewhere about a crossdressing Ogre that was inspired by watching an Empire woman beat the snot out of her husband in their yard. But it turns out that very....unique mini is actually just literally a female Ogre who has a fake beard in part of her kit that can be placed on the face. Weirdly, I had NEVER seen the mini without the beard until literally last night, which is wild. Will say that personally it takes a lot of the magic out of the mini for me as that means it's just a lady Ogre who carries a giant rolling pin with a cauldron purse and wearing fish nets...for some reason. It's an incredibly distasteful model in that lens, at least to me. When it comes to the female Ogres I VASTLY prefer the expanded new Ogre Bloodbowl team which has 2 female players or the female Ogre who appears in Archives in the Empire Volume 2 for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 4th Edition who is incredibly terrifying/awesome in equal measure. She has some pretty sick armor!

[@Brutalyte616]

I choose to believe that is a female Ogre that saw a woman beating the shit out of a man with a rolling pin and became the first-ever Ogre Man-Eater Housewife. The beard piece implies the model just has gender/sex options, but it'd be more amusing to think that it's expressly a model of a female Ogre that saw a bearded woman or a crossdresser and added the beard to her ensemble. On that note, it'd be funny if it was a dwarf woman with a beard that the Ogre saw...

[@pjchatterton1227]

😢😢😢😢😢😂😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😂😂😢🎉😢😢🎉😢😢😢😢😢😂😢😢🎉😢😢😢🎉😢😢😢😢😢🎉😢😢😢😢😢😢😢🎉😢😢😢😢😮😢😢😢🎉😂😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😂

[@pjchatterton1227]

🎉😢😢🎉🎉😢😢😂

[@pjchatterton1227]

😢😢🎉😢🎉😢😢😢😢😂😢🎉😢🎉😢😢😢😢😢🎉

[@pjchatterton1227]

😢😢😢🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

[@puregibberish]

On the off chance either Sotek or Andy see this, I have to echo what so many others say: your chats are incredibly entertaining and your passion for the topic comes through. Cheers to you and many many more episodes of lorebeards.

[@LAWhammer]

Thanks so much for saying so! And, worry not, we currently plan many more episodes to come!

[@loremasterofsotek]

Really appreciate the kind words! We REALLY enjoy doing this so it's absolutely awesome to know that people enjoy it ALMOST as much as we do!

[@XarkoCZ]

GRIMNIIIIIR'S WRATH!

[@Thunderstriker88]

I’m so glad you guys keep making these videos. Seems like there is a lack of content that shows the in-depth lore of fantasy so this is a breath of fresh air. Keep it up!!

[@loremasterofsotek]

Well it certainly didn't help that Fantasy full on died/imploded there for a hot minute but I'm glad we can dust off a bunch of fantastic lore and bring people along!

[@Mr.Anderson__]

I would LOVE a Grombrindal stream! He is my favorite Dwarf character.

[@loremasterofsotek]

One day we will absolutely have to cover THE WHITE DWARF

[@fredslipknot9]

Please do it soon! I *love* all of the lorebeards streams but I especially love those about special characters.

[@nofuxgivens2797]

@@loremasterofsotekLong Drongs Pirate Slayers are probably the best slayers and sadly the least covered.

[@shakkarugat]

Almost 4 hours!! OMG!!! Cant wait to listen to it tomorrow work! Thank you lads for this amazing podcast series! You rock!!

[@LAWhammer]

Thanks! We do try! :D But, with a topic like Slayers, it was hard to keep it to just 4 hours!

[@shakkarugat]

@@LAWhammer the topic does not matter, when we can listen to you more than 3 hours!

[@Weavole]

I do the same thing. Being able to listen to them for almost 4 hours and not have to look for a new video? Best of both worlds.

[@Weavole]

Dwarven Therapist: “Have you tried striking grudges?”

[@loremasterofsotek]

"Dwarfen*" The striking of grudges is definitely said to be a deeply cathartic experience!

[@Weavole]

Sorry, I forgot it was spelled differently. 😅

[@GoldenKaos]

@@loremasterofsotek I think I went through an army book once to try and find what GW used instead of "dwarven" given that it's Dwarfs not Dwarves (Dwarfish?) and I found they had avoided the issue entirely by just using "Dwarf X" - not dwarven/dwarfish society but Dwarf society. So the adjective version of the noun "Dwarf" was in fact "Dwarf". That was only the one (6E I think) army book though.

[@madalinbotez2089]

dueling&drinking&fucking sounds more like my jam

[@madalinbotez2089]

i really miss a dwarf, i've met during my adventures in this penitenciar like world

[@stefvanroey8191]

On Grimnirs axes: i am actually convinced that he had 3, all of which he lost at various times. The one he gave to Morgrim was passed down to each high king and is now with Throgrim. The 2 he kept got lost along the way. One ended up with Grombrindal and the other ended up with Gotrek. That last one is especially interesting cuz Gotreks axe specifically is tooled to defeat magic and deamons, making me think that his is the most recently made axe. Specifically it should have been made during the great catastrophe. And assuming Grimnir did not hold the chaos gate bare handed (i know he is a badass but... come on), he might actually have had more....

[@ChapterGrim]

Yeah, I think it highly likely that Grimnir had a number of axes, possibly with the same name, or perhaps only known to be the "Axe of Grimnir"/"Grimnir's Axe"...

[@torgue5364]

I look forward to seeing an episode dedicated to something empire related! Summon the Elector Counts!

[@loremasterofsotek]

Would definitely love to do a big focus on the Empire! Maybe we can hit something after October ends

[@akumaking1]

Will you guys be talking about the origins of the human race in Warhammer?

[@loremasterofsotek]

One day!

[@swampbillies1776]

I went from thinking warhammer was nerdy to listening to lore at the gym. I freaking love warhammer

[@TulkasTrepidatious]

This right here is what makes this channel so dam special. The complete commitment to a concept, following it to its logical extremities, exploring an idea to its fullest. Thank you both for a terrific video 😃

[@Dwarfurious]

@2:57:00 ok im reminded of a story of a bunch of skaven that dressed up as dwarfs to try and bypass a Rune of Death that kills any non-dwarf that tries to pass it, and a rat ogre put on a slayer getup, fake mohawk and all

[@x0lopossum]

9:15 What are the Ancestor gods? 12:05 Dwarf ancestral big bads are often refered to as mothers. Like the mother of dragons. 13:20 Grinnir fights what the dwarves beleive is the mother of all dragons Skaladrak. 14:00 Skaladrak was a fire Dragon and mekted some mountains vehind grinnir and created blackfire pass. 16:47 How greenskins escaped the extermination of the Lizardmen (they went underground) also early dwarf vs greenskin wars. 17:20 insect creature with a civilization from before the Old Ones that had a civilizaton before the dearves eiped them out rediscoverd by gotrek and felix

[@SquirtleSquady]

thanks for another great EP guys :)

[@loremasterofsotek]

Thanks so much!

[@davidkwiecien415]

32:38 what does is say about me that I understand the dwarves psychology… to the point my manager literally told me yesterday “you are the only one on the team who reports themselves for making mistakes… and then you actively look to fix the mistakes” … this is because I was 6 minutes late to a meeting

[@hangebza6625]

On interesting concept in regards to the ancestor gods I once had was the following: Karak Zorn was the first dwarfen city. What if the ancestor gods were not the first dwarfs, and there had been a King of Karak Zorn before Grugni and co appeared. E.g. dwarfs form a society and the Old Ones then take some dwarfs from it and make them the ancestor gods. And what of this royal line of Karak Zorn is still unbroken to this day? E.g. with another dwarfen culture in the Southlands. How would they view the rest of the Karaz Ankor and the legimaticy of their kings? Indeed I think having a surviving culture descendent from Karak Zorn could have all kinds of awesome set ups and interactions.

[@305bj]

Keep ‘em coming! My lorehammer appetite isn’t satisfied! Much love!

[@ChapterGrim]

I loved that about Gunnar! We've got so many great and diverse exemplars of the Slayer across the various sources...

[@ChapterGrim]

Both Behram Gundarson and Malakai Makaisson seemingly wear armour, but it's by no means normal, and definitely frowned upon - though there are certainly practical reasons for it. Objectively, a Slayer knows they're not Grimnir, so I'd like to think if there was great need, say to close with a Verminlord without dying to a tide of Skavenslaves... 🤷

[@ChapterGrim]

Apparently, vis-à-vis "[pg.7] Dwarfs in WFB 6th Ed", the first Slayer was warrior named Gudrun who failed to preserve the life of Skorri Morgrimson's son? I'm honestly most interested in the first Dawi woman to take the Slayer's Oath, THAT should be a significant note in lore, though I suppose that it not being is emphasis of Andy's point throughout... 🤔

[@paulbestwick2426]

Brilliant episode, thanks guys. Looking forward to the Grombrindal stream.

[@NicoDavout]

Great stream! Thank you.

[@swe123swe]

Can I just say: dwarfs in warhammer are like one of my favorite races in the warhammer setting. They're rivaled only by wood elves.

[@Mr.Anderson__]

So, you mention someone can't be forced to be a slayer, yet you also mention that oaths can be passed down to other family members. Does that mean it is the family members choice to take up their father, granfather etc. oath? What would happen if no one within the family wants to take up the oath? Does the entire family get dishonored?

[@Khetsisal33]

Most Slayers die in battle so it's probably a rare occurrence to begin. Ungrim inherits his slayer oath though yes, but if he were to have abstained from said oath, he would be exhiled out and banned from the holds for life, possibly along with his family if no one was willing to take up the oath. Exhile is something dwarfs can do to oath breakers, and people who are too afraid to take the slayer oath but may need to be punished for an agreigous wrong. I'm not sure if there's any lawful executions, though, probably not as kin-slaying is unthinkable as a concept to most dwarfs besides chorfs. In the case of a dwarf who refuses to take up his kin's oath which was rightfully supposed to pass on to him, he would be recognised by the grudge lawyers or authorities and they have a number of punishments they can use to settle the grudge. 99% chance of being exhiled for sure, they could strike his entire family or even clan from every record and exhile them too. Probably to some desolate wasteland if they're in a particularly bad grudge, or if they are the most dishonorable and degenerate dwarf ever to exist, shave off their beard and dump them face first into the chaos wastes.

[@Tulkash01]

Obligatory mention for "Why Slayers Slay" by Bill King. It's free online and it explains precisely the psychology and sociology of Slayers. As for the distinction between, Trollslayers/Giantslayers/Dragonslayers/Demonslayers, I've always found that to work better if one assumes a trollslayer is someone who starts hunting down trolls, those who suceed become giantslayers as they start hunting for bigger prey, the same is true for dragonslayer and demonslayers. Demonslayers are so rare they are figures of legend and after they fail to find an heroic doom one to many times they inevitably tread the path north... and no one comes back from that.

[@timapllpppndkaylappimpey4181]

Really interesting so much great lore I'd never heard off. I think it's quite tragic with snorri where he loses his memory

[@Dwarfurious]

iirc, Leatherbeard was a Slayer who took the oath because, while fighting against skaven as a miner, he had his face/beard burned off by a skaven fire team. His shame was being unable to ever regrow his beard due to the burns, obviously not every dwarf is going to take the oath for that, maybe he was particularly proud of his beard though.

[@74arcath]

Very good episode, had alot of fun listening to u guys.

[@albertdrevdal4233]

Man, this was good. Feel so priviliged that we are able to listen to you two

[@EmielRegisRochellecTerzief]

I have a question, what is generally slayers approach to ambush?

[@de_sherwin]

How powerful is grimnir compared to other gods from different races?

[@Playaplaya18]

Grimnir having advanced tech makes me think he goes from Doomguy(Doomdwarf?) on Earth to a naked Dwarf with his magic axe.

[@EmielRegisRochellecTerzief]

I think that by closing the Gate and saving the world you would not only redeem yourself, but I think that in a way you redeem all the slayers including Grimnir. Their oath has been ultimately fulfielled

[@NisGaarde]

Great stream!

[@Blitzkrieg1012]

2:05:010 That kind of Idea is one I really like in fantasy. Its called Mantling in The Elder Scrolls lore and a few characters mantle a god or idea to the extent they become that god.

[@nickjohnson4500]

My favorite episode so far!! Made me realized I might be a tall as dwarf😂

[@ASpaceOstrich]

I remember hearing somewhere that the south pole was basically just being spawncamped by lizardmen preventing forces of chaos from breaking out of the gate. This obviously isn't true, but is this based on that city with the Chaos Gate below it?

[@dariusrose9909]

One question I have is do Dragon Ogres (Shaggoths in particular) like fighting slayers? Since both want to die in battle essentially. Dragons ogres wishing to end there existence and servitude to chaos in battle and slayers looking for a mighty foe in battle. Are they kindred spirits?

[@loremasterofsotek]

Depends on the Dragon Ogres but most of them seem to deeply enjoy battle and exult in it, so I imagine they would find the desperate and brutal fight a Slayer brings to be quite enjoyable. However, we spoke in the Dragon Ogre livestream that they have quite contemptuous views of the "New Races" which is quite literally just about anything that's not a Dragon. You could argue there is strong similarity between the two in very broad terms, though.

[@50Stone]

I wonder if a Slayer could use a shield as it can be offensive, I'm not talking Captain America style, but shield barging, edge striking etc.

[@emmahagens]

3:46:47 stunted? there will be no alliance with sotek spawn

[@espio33]

Hmm, all this talks about oaths got me thinking. One of the few common oaths we have in real life is marriage, with comes with divorces. Does a dwarf ever get a divorce? I would assume no.

[@loremasterofsotek]

If a Dwarf was viewed as having violated his marital oaths I actually think a divorce would be standard procedure, but I would imagine they're not common by any means as that would come with absolutely massive fallout.

[@carsonnesbit1178]

Khazukan Kazakit-ha! Dawi anad dreng urk!

[@loremasterofsotek]

KHAZUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUK!

[@SailTheShip]

2:14:00 Doesn't this spit in the face of his son's goal though? If the whole reason his son fought and died was to free him of the slayer deal, I'd think taking it would be like a big "fuck you" to why his son died in the first place.

[@lukazivkovic4099]

Brotherhood of grimnir could be a cool RoR unit in warhammer, maybe something like aspiring champions but for dwarves.

[@pauliusthemad3498]

I admit I am not old enough to know this when it came out, but I do know of slayers in armor because I played some 5th ed WHF recently and read dwarf book

[@joonas5660]

Have you read the gotrek and Felix books? Very good audioreadings on grimdark narrator

[@jesperkarlsson2853]

Love slayers, sending Ungrim and a army of bare chested dwarves with high damage and decent runesmith boosted defence is a nice feeling

[@gregoryshinn9805]

Thanks for the video

[@Dwarfurious]

really sad to have missed this live :(

[@Luddendorf]

Andy has the perfect voice to play a dwarf

[@ASpaceOstrich]

Would you say a Slayer might have separate honour from the previous life? Like the shame was too much so they forsook their prior life and lost their honour. Meaning that shame is now attached to a previous "dead" individual, and the Slayer is now trying to preserve their new lifes honour? Like do they consider themselves to be a separate person from who they were before the took the oath?

[@RatchildUK]

3:46:46 That one is going in the book!

[@Trueblue-ut5zt]

Hi I wish CA would make this change in-regards to Gotrek & Felix, so that as a player you could get them permanently after you complete certain quests chains with them as soon as they appear initially. Make it challenging for example they can’t recruit anyone, it’s just both of them only and have a unique skill tree for both of them that they complement one another and eventually they could become two man army that could face a full stack army…. I think that would be so much fun…

[@albertdrevdal4233]

Pure Single entity armies are not particularly fun.

[@Trueblue-ut5zt]

I disagree I think CA is missing out on a great opportunity on these two Gotrek & Felix.

[@albertdrevdal4233]

@@Trueblue-ut5zt have you...have you played the game?

[@rocketroux5838]

Why does Andy hate Gelt so much ? What's the story here ?

[@wilhelmrk]

A Big Wall and a sprinkle of necromancy

[@murphyjackson530]

+ on the fyreslayers starting to look good. Pigeonholed very true. Typing one handed, words hard

[@zodrickzheioh7318]

how permanent is the Slayer Oath, Until death do us part...

[@xenoscapes]

Dorn returns as a champion of Khorne.

[@Dwarfurious]

GW writers really were like "okay elves heres your paradise island

[@danielbutchers998]

yer u really should do a video on all the examples of female dwarfs in battle and there roles within society I would be very interested in seeing that with where its from I would love to read those stores

[@sprrowhawk9306]

After watching this episode i have came to the conclusion that i am a dwarf not a slayer a dwarf

[@Brutalyte616]

So here's a conundrum. How is a foe declared 'worthy' by the Slayers and Dwarf society? Like if a Dragon Slayer gets killed by a giant, does that still count as dying against a worthy foe or are Slayers forbidden to die from something that is technically a rank down from their biggest kill? What about instances where there is more than one enemy? Does an army count as a 'worthy foe' or is dying to a single footsoldier after killing 1,000 other soldiers and fighting to exhaustion not count because you died to some kid with a pointy stick? What if said kid grows up to be the next Everchosen? Does the Slayer retroactively gain a worthy death? Do other dwarves have to see and witness the battle for it to count? Does the rest of dwarf society even have a say in what constitutes a worthy death or is it personal to each Slayer? Would a dwarf be dishonored for mistakingly believing a Slayer did not fulfill their oath or is it just assumed by all dwarves that the matter is out of their hands? Did the Oath of the Slayer Kings ever actually count or is it intrinsically invalidated because each Slayer must swear the oath of their own volition for their own reasons and the Slayer Kings were never actually obligated to take the oath or adhere to it themselves because you can't force the oath on a dwarf or swear it on their behalf? If a Slayer dies of old age, sickness, or exposure, does that constitute a worthy death because they fought against time, disease or the world itself or does it have to be against something you can fight and kill? If the ghost of a Slayer rises from the dead or a Slayer is somehow resurrected, do they get another shot at fulfilling their previous oath in their second life or beyond the grave or do they have to swear the oath again? Can they swear the oath again?

[@kg6316]

Thumbs up in KZbin Chat!

[@curlybillbrocius25]

The Dawi are ready!!!

[@christopherclayton5500]

Cthonian Beserks. Culturally nothing like Slayers, though.

[@atomic9706]

And the whole morgrim/smednir thing is even more dumb when you consider that smed is swedish for smith. Probably something deliberate originally which has then been lost to gw writers which is just daft

[@austinironhide5333]

40 adds wth ?? Good vid though

[@jamesespinosa690]

You have to be mentally ill if you think Beastmen are the "closest" to humans in Warhammer. Yes we get the Elves and Dwarves are literally a different species. But they are ordered aligned/uncorrupted..... Elves and Dwarves aren't that difficult to understand.... When they get emotional, they do 'irrational things' yes... This is totally normal and expected behaviour. As opposed to the beastmen who's very essence is the essence of the irrational.

[@jamesespinosa690]

Oh, I realised that was a 50 minute explanation for people who don't understand what honour is. Makes more sense now.

[@1701Emperor]

Emperor Dragon is just the Imperial terminology for the oldest of Dragons. Star Dragon is the Elvish term for the same.

[@albertdrevdal4233]

You got a source for that?

[@1701Emperor]

@@albertdrevdal4233 Uh.... Yes? It is called LITERALLY the lore? The High Elves say that the Star Dragons are the oldest of all the Dragons. Humans call Emperor Dragons the oldest of all the Dragons. It is literally the simplest form of deductive logic here. As an example: Indraugnir, who was the oldest of all living Dragons in Ulthuan (meaning the oldest of all Dragons) and he was specifically called a STAR Dragon by the High Elves, not an Emperor Dragon..

[@albertdrevdal4233]

@@1701Emperor but then you have the issue of ulthuan dragons clearly being different from old world dragons, so they're not rly the same at all, is the dragon emperor an emperor class dragon? And would the elves even know? I disagree that it's as clear cut as you present it, but it's certainly an interesting thought.

[@1701Emperor]

@albertdrevdal4233 They are only different in demeanour and personality, not physically. Those dragons are different to Eastern Dragons, though. That much is very certain.

[@albertdrevdal4233]

@@1701Emperor it was my understanding that they are not, and I doubt you have any sources that prove your argument. The reason I ask for sources is bcs people who have been in the hobby for a while often make their own extensive "headcannon" (for a lack of a better word) to make sense of the massive amount of lore we have. It then tends to blur the line between actually stated fact, and what we have percieved as it, and im guilty of doing this myself aswell. It's fun to discuss this stuff, but we should ve very careful about stating things as facts.

[@patgray5402]

That sounds like suicide with extra steps

[@loremasterofsotek]

You're not entirely wrong