Babylon 5 Lore : Rise of an ingenious Clark Regime

[@dragonchr15]

I always liked how despite Clark getting virtually no screen time in Season 3 and 4, he was still a menacing villain....kind if like Sauron from Lord of the Rings (novels, not films).

[@dragonstormx]

Babylon 5 shows some influences from LOTR. One of those is how Clark has a huge presence in the narrative even though we rarely see him. Similar deal with the Shadows rarely appearing on screen themselves (even if we see their warships) and having next to no dialogue.

[@KaiObelisk]

In fairness a small, aging bald man with a relatively high pitched voice would have been hard to portray as a figure of menace, and risked descending into caricature. Keeping him off screen for the vast, vast, vast majority of the time and only bringing him on for a few key moments greatly amplified his sense of threat BUT because it wasn't complete, because we still knew what he looked like and how he carried himself, he also communicated just how banal someone truly willing to overturn democracy for tyranny can really be. Someone real. He looks like a normal politician, doesn't he?

[@TheMajorActual]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record -- Babylon 5 is how epic TV is supposed to be done.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

This wouldn't happen on SISKOS STATION!😂

[@Deridus]

@Jules Vallez For me, it sits just a cut above DS9, my favorite Trek series. The shift from season 1 to 2 was a bit rough, but that was due to the actor playing Sinclaire having to bow out for medical reasons. Still, my favorite scifi. My ranking goes thus: B5, DS9, BSG, TNG, TOS, with Dr. Who trailing only because of the PC fuckery of the last few seasons.

[@akirahideo6904]

amen

[@TheMajorActual]

@Jules Vallez -- Sorry, didn't see this until 12.10.18...I put B5 in a class by itself, primarily because it has a coherent (okay, mostly-coherent) series-long story arc; I can't think of any other show written in a similar way, including any of the Trek's. The Trek's had arcs that lasted a season, or a season and a half, at most, but those were basically afterthoughts, grafted onto the show for something to do, beyond "Alien Of The Week". Dr. Who, in contrast, has SO MUCH backstory to it, you can easily retcon any arc you want into it. But no other show that I am aware of has any sort of coherent beginning-middle-end. Another factor is that there are no truly "good" guys in B5 -- every single one of the characters in the first and second tiers have to make hard choices, and while you may cheer when they make Decision A now, you'll see what a bad idea it was later, or turned out to have inevitable consequences that the character never saw coming. The TNG-era (TNG, DS9 and Voyager) tried to show the Federation at its best, both in workaday, under wartime conditions, and in extreme duress, but it unconsciously never willingly violated Roddenberry's ideal vision, at least among the Federation characters -- Sisko came the closest, but "Pale Moonlight" makes it crystal clear that his actions only came when he had been pushed to the breaking point. B5 is inherently real -- it is truly epic, but like real life, there are only winners and losers, at the very best....mostly, the characters just try to do their best -- which is all that can be expected of anyone, really. You can catch it on Amazon Prime, and I cannot recommend it highly enough.

[@craigs71]

The Major as the saying on B5 goes; no-one here is exactly as they appear.

[@sdmarlow3926]

It's nearly 2021, and it feels like we are closer to the B5 timeline than ever.

[@p.c.windhamparanormalroman4339]

Actually, anyone who has ever read George Orwell's 1984 can see that Clark was doing exactly what that book described.

[@andrewpestotnik5495]

Debatable to say that everyone saw that

[@cillianennis9921]

Yeah I am sure Clark has a copy of the book somewhere in his house.

[@terryforsdyke306]

The most interesting thing about the Clark story was that it was rushed, the original plan had been for the Shadow War to take up more of season 4, and the Earth liberation arc was originally going to last into season 5, but JMS had been told he was not getting a season 5 on the channel currently (at the time) showing Babylon 5, so he wrapped everything up, even filmed the final episode Sleeping in Light as the last episode of season 4, then another channel ordered season 5 leading to the hastily filmed "deconstruction of falling stars" being shot for the end of season 4, and season 5 feeling of lower quality than the other seasons because they had already burned through half the material that was supposed to make up season 5.

[@dramonmaster222]

The sign of a good show is that no matter how old it is, it is still socially relevant.

[@davidbeppler3032]

War... War never changes.

[@paullewis9451]

@Voltaic Fire To quote Steven Franklin "It'll take more then a few hundred years to evolve a better a human"

[@honoriswithin]

Exactly and this is why it isn't shown on TV anymore

[@UteChewb]

@@paullewis9451 , or to quote Ivanova: If we lived 200 years we'd still be human, we'd still make the same mistakes.

[@BrightOranje]

Always thought it was kinda cool how they managed to make Clark into such a formidable adversary without ever actually showing him much on screen. Not something you see too often, certainly not on TV today.

[@kennethmelnychuk9737]

You didn’t mention that Clark was responsible for Santiago’s death

[@kingbeef66]

Still doesn’t make sense why he would kill Santiago since Santiago picked Clark as his running mate. I thought they were close and mutual to each other. That would be like Dick Cheney having George W Bush killed even though they see eye to eye. Then again, I wonder if there is a stereotype of vice presidents conspiring against their presidential superiors as old as the Butler did it trope.

[@jaspr1999]

What I find curious is my hesitation about posting anything about politics as no matter what I put here some extreme or another will take personal offense to it. I have no problem in going by laws, and guidelines that can be quoted by article and number, but political information... That's taboo as that requires the stating of personal leanings in the political landscape. B-5 was one of those well-written stories that just covered SO much that needs to be looked at again as it makes people think.

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

the future is not what it once was, lol.

[@Predator42ID]

While I don't like the series, mostly because of cgi and well it wasn't for me. Anyway you are right more and more people are getting insulted and for once in our history the real enemy isn't the bureaucrats. Its the bloody media.

[@MrPingn]

You did alright so don't worry about it. Definitely seeing some familiar things happening.

[@scruffylookingNerfherder5742]

@@MrPingn it might be interesting to go back and watch the Babylon 5 series and see which characters from that show could be compared to real life political or public figure is nowadays

[@AlexSDU]

@@Predator42ID I guess you don't like Star Trek TOS too because the lack of CGI or archaic special effect.

[@anthonymenzer2462]

Love the bit about "Taking concepts to their natural extremes, which of course is horrible for almost any idea you can have." Some serious wisdom in there that most people sadly ignore.

[@RCTPatriot75]

The best part is how a character that in 4 seasons only appeared on screen twice for all of 30 seconds always seemed to be present.

[@morlath4767]

There are people in the world who truly understand the horrors of Orwell's 1984, not because they read the book or saw the film, but because of Clark and Babylon 5.

[@simonoleary9264]

It hadn't occurred to me until now, but the woman from the Ministry of peace talks of making Earth safe and "ideologically pure". JMS warns us where this could lead, in S01 Episode 4 - Infection, where an ancient race created a "ideologically pure" weapon, which wiped them all out.. because nothing is 100% pure. JMS has just gone up in my estimation even more. I love how he didn't usually feel the need to spoon feed the audience over with these links, but allowed them to make the connections or themselves. Thats what helps to make rewatching an enjoyable experience. Second time I watched the whole show again, it was rewarding spot some apparently small and irrelevant event or comment that was the seed of something that would not flower for several seasons. I only realised the significance because I knew where the story was going. Zathrus have very sad life, Probably have sad death, But at least there is symmetry

[@TechnoMageB5]

Zathrus warn Zathrus, but, no one listen to poor Zathrus.

[@ryank5424]

While u are are mostly right. It was that the weapon was programmed by people who used ideology. And not science to determine what a 'pure' member of their species was, causing the weapons to wipe them all out. Still an excellent point though, I didn't make that connection before.

[@donaldpaluga]

Dying in a motorcycle accident is indeed sad #RIPZathrus

[@lynchet4532]

IKARA !

[@Deridus]

Zathras was the quiet one...

[@CharlesUrban]

Clark: Palpatine done right, and with 1,000% more forehead.

[@toatahu2003]

Palpatine was done pretty well, given he only had 3 movies and Clark had an entire TV series.

[@nerowulfee9210]

Virgin Sheev vs. President Chad

[@locutus442]

@@toatahu2003 Actually it's 4 (or 5) that he was in. Return of the Jedi, the prequel trilogy, and that one scene in The Empire Strikes Back he was retconed into.

[@welfarecrusader6855]

That's a got damn fivehead

[@BioGoji-zm5ph]

@@locutus442 Technically not a retcon, as the character of The Emperor was always in that scene. The difference is how The Emperor was portrayed in that scene. It's still technically the same character.

[@friendofjesus1680]

that creepy blonde chick was pretty scary, trying to make some bizarre business arrangement with Sheridan, and the night's watch, also quite orwellian.

[@Zarcondeegrissom]

yeah, totally creepy, considering her job was just what she was doing. Sheridan's "Political officer" to make sure Sheridan made command decisions that would reflect positively on the perception of earth government and be in line with Clark's political position on matters.

[@simonoleary9264]

Agreed, although when she was trying to seduce Sheridan, it was responsible for one of Ivanova's funniest lines. Ivanova: Good luck, captain. I think you're about to go where... everyone has gone before. 😋

[@jamesricker3997]

She sounds like a Fox News talking head

[@nuckenfuts7750]

James Ricker whatever you say MAO

[@jefft5152]

@@jamesricker3997 1000+% yes

[@ML-uv4gg]

This might be your best video yet. Very indepth and well thought out

[@lloydkeith3061]

The truly epic thing is this is a timeless tale. It happens in one form or another over and over again in history. Although it is not exactly the same, as the famous writer Mark Twain said, it does rhyme.

[@Rezkeshdadesh]

To be fair, Sheridan was colluding with a Russian.

[@MrPingn]

I giggled harder that I probably should have with this one.

[@scruffylookingNerfherder5742]

As hot as his Second in Command was you're damn right he would collude with her lol

[@donaldpaluga]

Ivanova was more Kasperov than Putin

[@Deridus]

All her life she fought against imperialism, then she turned into tge expanding Russian frontier.

[@scruffylookingNerfherder5742]

@@Deridus but with very nice borders

[@sharkdentures3247]

Limit words and change the definition of words and other those who disagree. Thank goodness none of this sounds familiar in real life. Eh?

[@TheBamaChad-W4CHD]

That's fake news

[@chrischang3002]

Donald Trump comes to mind

[@toatahu2003]

@@chrischang3002 No, Donald Trump just blatantly lies at times. He's not the one redefining terms. Like Racism. Or Gender. Hmm... Now who do we know that has been doing just that for the last 3 decades or so...

[@donaldpaluga]

When it first aired I thought Clark=Clinton. Now I view Clark=Trump.

[@toatahu2003]

@@donaldpaluga You were right both times...

[@LordElfa]

I always took Clark for a puppet meant to keep Earth out of the Shadow War.

[@HoustonSoto]

The thing I find most eerie and fascinating about President Clark as a character is that he never appears to us, as the audience, until his final moments before shooting himself. He’s only ever seen on monitors or television screens, like Big Brother from “1984” or Chancellor Sutler from “V for Vendetta”. I remember watching this epic arc play out and wrap up four years and realizing Clark has effectively been the second main villain of the series and was the last “Boss”, even after the Shadows, and yet he was never flesh and blood for us. There’s something very unsettling about it. And his fate being reminiscent of that of the Warden from “Shawshank Redemption” makes it all the more chilling.

[@ugolomb]

Big Brother didn't really exist within the 1984 universe -- he was a mythical embodiment of the Party -- unlike Clark and Sutler, who were real people within their respective fictional universes. That said, there are definite Orwellian vibes in Clark's regime, down to some the terminology. The name "Ministry of Peace" and its abbreviation, Minipax, are both from 1984; however, Clark's Minipax functions more like Orwell's Ministries of Truth and Love

[@Mate397]

It's scary when past sci-fi shows actually predict things happening in today's world.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

Predict? Furlan grew up in Zagreb. She found the show uncomfortably accurate. History tends to repeat itself...

[@Tech2188]

This is the genius of Babalon 5 and why I own it on DVD. Because one day it could be Banned...

[@Pommesfive]

hahaha man you made me laugh but it scared me that you could be right one day :|

[@theyaden]

In this crazy world it is definitely possible. Keep in mind a cartoon frog was declared a hate symbol because a woman with enough political connections was getting lampooned by people using sad frog memes when she ran for president. It may have effectively destroyed the credibility of the Anti-Defamation League, but Pepe from Matt Furie's comic Boy's Club is now considered a hate symbol regardless of what meme it's used for.

[@Thalanox]

@@theyaden I'm sure the ADF's credibility was destroyed long before that. It's just that those likely earlier incidents weren't something that happened on a grand scale that a ton of people already knew the truth about. As an interesting note, that green frog character is a symbol of freedom. It's being used as a symbol in signs by the protesters in Hong Kong.

[@brandonk8948]

Coincidence that it almost got canceled?

[@kenjett2434]

Great job Lore at getting to the heart of B5. Sadly we can see alot these same traits trying to be implemented today. Oh crap forget i said that ignore it. Look forward as you and we delve into what made B5 such a great series so many layers to separate out.

[@lamaahruloma4270]

So prophetic... Briliant study of Orwell!

[@JCinLapel]

He was the best type of villain the slow burn that you don't see coming till it is to late to stop without a high cost

[@rickcoona]

... And who recalls the first link of the chain? *"Two weeks to flatten the curve"*

[@weldonwin]

Anyone familiar with the novel 1984, will find all of this immediately familiar. Newspeak and Doublethink (The redefining of words to suit government policy and changing the way people think), the introduction of a political police force, near universal surveillance, fear of one's neighbors turning you in, this is all straight out of 1984. Even the Ministry of Peace is lifted right out of Orwell's novel and thats deliberate. B5 is shot through with literary, historical and mythological references. The big difference, is that The Party is eventually overthrown, rather than continuing to be the boot, smashing down on the face of humanity forever.

[@dreammirrorbrony1240]

Ideologically pure = BIG red flag!

[@davidbeppler3032]

Red... I see what you did there.

[@seand.g423]

Seriously! They literally dealt with that shit in Season 1 (Infection)!

[@RoyCyberPunk]

That's exactly what the Globalist left seeks to do and are building Chinese Gubmint style 💀 camps worldwide in order to carry out their beloved Globalist Elite Establishment Corporatist masters final solution against all those they have deemed as undesirables, back in the 1930s it was Gypsies, Jews, Communists and Dissidents nowadays the targets are namely Christians, conservatives, libertarians and everyone they don't like or disagree with in the slightest in order to create the ideologically pure planet one state world gubmint where slavery equals liberty, war equals peace, ignorance is strength and domination equals cooperation.

[@jlokison]

I've always been a bit of a Scifi junkie. I started with Star Trek (the original series), Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica (again the original series), and Buck Rogers. When Babylon 5 came along, TNG had been going for awhile and DS9 had not started. Star Trek had always been fun but very very clean, especially the Federation. Babylon 5 was the first show I had easy access to with a well written story and characters, with aliens that acted more alien than most shows, and complex and diverse political and religious motivations for everyone involved. The fact that they used Newtonian physics, at least for everyone but the Minbari and higher tech races, for space battles was also incredibly cool. It was one of the first well done gritty realism network scifi shows despite the limitations of production technology at the time. The show tried to do a lot, and in some cases too much, and made the network uncomfortable. It is still one of my favorite shows, although I'll admit I have been unable to watch the Expanse for financial reasons.

[@paulhunter6742]

I liked the Expanse, it that society, politics and technology were more closely aligned to our present day world situation. Just extended to Mars and Android belt.

[@randywarren7101]

Remember,the oath of office every Earth Alliance officer is to uphold the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

[@LoreReloaded]

Assuming it's the same constitution as we see int eh United States..

[@Revkor]

no reason why not, yes some minor changes but the rights we see are in the US constitution and Sherdian mentions it was the battle of Proxima@@LoreReloaded

[@clarkhazle9629]

President Clark lackeys must have down voted.

[@Thehuntsman741]

Yes him and the shadows get Sheridan quickly lol

[@donaldpaluga]

The Red Hat Brigade is VERY vindictive

[@Deridus]

Pretty sure is was the Teeps.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

Mark Zuckerberg contributed to his "Election"😎

[@jasoncrowell8863]

Also, notice that in the name of "purity", Clark was essentially working for the Shadows. He may have had a different goal in the short term, but still served their goals in the long term. He placed his government in the service of not only a foreign power, but a truly alien power so that he could obtain power.

[@attiepollard7847]

I don't think he was working with the shadows. The shadows did send people to increase his powers and views on the military in the political class but if he knew how truly evil they was then he would not did what he did.

[@ganados0]

In season 3 episode 5 Ivanova in the Great Machine picks up a recording showing Clark talking to the unseen but heard Mr Morden, it's been noted his final note 'the ascension of the ordinary man' and scorching the Earth was hinting he shared the same belief as Emperor Cartagia, it was also noted both the Earth Alliance and Centauri Republic were getting closer in that they signed a peace treaty and Cartagia referred to a human in his court.

[@TheOmegaXicor]

@@ganados0 pretty sure that human in his court is Mr Morden

[@paulhunter6742]

And which former US President may have tried same thing while he was in Office? It's terrifying that people still believe in a man who tried overthrown lawfully election of current President.

[@TheOmegaXicor]

@@paulhunter6742 (DEFINITELY NOT SIDING WITH THEM) it depends on how you define "lawfully elected" because if he wasn't then standing up is right

[@Sasuke81a]

It's interesting that we're all observing these signs in real life right now.

[@litesaber54yi3]

Im so glad you're making these B5 vids. This show was far and away my favorite scifi show growing up with prob Space Above and Beyond behind it if only because its potential was cut so short. Even until today there is no other show that comes close to the writing and ship design that B5 had. Keep up the good work

[@dedrickhowell805]

I wish this series could be remastered in high definition. It was brilliant.

[@aurorajones8481]

This episode was chilling. If this happens again these are the signs ppl and thats a dark day indeed.

[@pollall2793]

Jesus- That's the kind of stuff Thrawn would dream about. It both amazes me, and horrifies me how Clark took control, one step at a time- honestly he's one of my favorite sci-fi villains to date- Hell, he has literal SECONDS of screen time, yet he is the primary villain for half the show... You go JMS...

[@merrick1588]

gotta say watching Night watch get yeeted from the station was immensely satisfying the first time I watched it... and it only got more satisfying the more times I did

[@Chaosmage42]

im not sure clark directly pitted the psycorp against the shadows Bester helped out the B5 crew but the more important thing is that he didn't fully know what the shadows were doing. The thing is he didn't act like one and i think i know why. the mimbarie were stagnant on what they would do and the centarie and the narns when to war but the earth forces didn't do much at all, and i think its because they knew that some how the humans were important so they wanted them out of the game, so i think a lot of what clark did at first was at the shadows prompting. Also the biggest issue is that clark got a lot of his policies passed with no one noticing how much power he was gathering. I am curious how clark got some of this stuff through because setting up the political office and giving them the powers they had, i don't know how he got that through the senate

[@kardy12]

On this, I fully agree with your analysis. The writing is excellent in often subtle ways, and Clark’s takeover was expertly executed.

[@gh5902]

Wow. It’s like your talking about now

[@patecar20]

It also helped that the psi core was in his pocket too. Even your own thoughts weren't safe.

[@digitalis2977]

"It also helped that Psi Core -was in his pocket- was going along with him for their own benefit..." Fixed it for you. Psi Corps held allegiance to no one but Psi Corps.

[@altrocks]

@@digitalis2977 Stategic alliances. Sadly we never got to see the Psi Corps split and the Telepath Wars begin.

[@KorAsek453]

There's one major flaw in your theory, the "genius" of Clark was not his own. Both the Psycorps and the Shadows were using him, not the other way around. Bester and his followers in the corps manipulated Clark, and probably Santiago as well, just like they had been manipulating government policy for almost a century. As for the Shadows, they took it a step further, directly controlling Clark with one of those Drakh brain jacking creatures, like the one placed on Londo. We see the evidence of this in his suicide note which contained a hidden message for Sheridan's forces, warning them that he had turned the defense satellites on Earth. This mirrors what Jack did on Mars, saying or doing little things that the creature wouldn't notice in an attempt to warn others of the imminent threat, like saying that he couldn't find any souvenirs to bring back in spite of the fact that he passed through a major trading port. I suspect that the real Clark was actually a good person who agreed with and supported Santiago's view points on things like interspecies cooperation and cultural exchange.

[@GothicLightingQueen]

I always believed that the shadows where behind it all. Your point about the shadows using Clark and not the other way around, I agree and I think they on purpose let Clark believe that he was the one controlling everything when he was just being used.

[@sdmarlow3926]

Yes, it was always my understanding that Psycorps was behind Santiagos death, and that Clark's ambitions were just a means to and end for the Shadows (doing the same for Cartagia, making them almost mirror characters).

[@MrGrenadeMcBoom]

B5 was so good! More of this, keep it coming!

[@jasondiend4248]

It is why I really like Babylon 5. The subplot of Earth and B5 breaking apart from each other. The Clark Regime was a slow boil. It was look B5 has to deal with the Shadow issue and then deal with Clark. Yet in the end it was all connected. Sometimes you make morally questionable acts in order to do the right thing. That is why this show is amazing. It isn't about black and white it is about shades of gray. Everyone has a good and a bad side. Everyone has a breaking point and it is a matter of how far they can go before they become evil. I like that I like the notion of dealing with humans not being perfect heroes.

[@Predator42ID]

Want to read something funny, in High school history my teacher talks about Hitlers definition of an Aryan. The entire class turned their heads toward me.

[@1DerangedWarrior]

*buckles in for a series of vids that is LONG overdue by anyone who does vids like this about sci-fi shows* Babylon 5 has been overlooked for way to long and im gonna enjoy seeing this series to see what perspective and opinion Lore reloaded has on the series as a whole

[@rexremedy1733]

I always take mental notes. Always... because you never know when you are going to need them.

[@time391]

@Lore: Can't wait for you to take on the concept of Secession, when you get into the moral decisions of Babylon 5 and Sheridan's role in the ensuing Civil War. Personally, I think he did the right thing, but it was "inconvenient" political move :P Clark's regime had gotten too entrenched, secession was necessary to preserve your way of life, Civil War was necessary to defend yourself and others from oppressive regime, and ultimately if you want to maintain any form of civilization, totalitarian or Democratic, you must pay for it in blood. Then again, the ponderous question comes to play: What if Sheridan and Babylon 5 had lost the Civil War? Would their ideals be vilified as being genocidal to humanity in favor of "aliens"? Would those who supported Sheridan's cause like the Rangers be condemned?

[@superwebcomics7649]

I just re-watched Babylon 5 from beginning to end, and realized how genius it was. The sheer depth of the story.

[@LoreReloaded]

its really good

[@robgraham5697]

"We have been betrayed on nearly every level." Yes, and I'm looking at one of the traitors. First time I saw this scene I nearly put my fist through my TV. Willing slaves is what the Klingons call people like this uncouth term for that piece of human anatomy unique to women.

[@edale2]

I loved how one of the first comments about the presidency by Ivanova was that she didn't trust Clark.

[@Lennis01]

"Santiago has no chin. And his vice president has several. This to me is not a good combination." - Ivanova

[@Kruhn]

Great analysis of President Clark. Your analysis of Minipax is right on. I remember when this episode first broadcast, it raised my hackles seeing how subtly the monster was growing. One recommendation, you could've used the word "xenophobic" as the pejorative those who believed in greater integration with aliens would've used against Santiago for those more Earth-centric policies.

[@ibarf24]

IDK if it was unpurpose or long ago scheduled but Amazon could not have picked a better time to finally put BB5 on streaming :) I had watched a couple of episodes here and there over the years since the series ended... But it was only this year that I had the opportunity to revisit this great saga from the bigginig- un interrupted and was amazed how this series has withstood the test of time visually, ideologically and many other aspects. But it was specially in the writing around the time the whole Clark - Santiago thing starts to develop that I was just stunned to see all the real world similarities, sometimes to the letter (word by word, action by action) that have led to the very nasty situation we find our selves in today.... With hate and frear mongering being the weapons of choice by a very mentally damaged, corrupt, traitorous, power hungry character to justify silencing media outlets and all forms of criticism, replacing key positions for most loyal and not most qualified, desolving all systems meant to keep powerful individuals in check, obstruction and manipulation of law institutions.... And on and on... Till we find in the end that this individual was a puppet off the shadows and humanity almost played right into their hands so willingly and we didn't even see it coming till it was too late. Then when it was over I was horrified by the notion that all these terrible things matched almost play by play recent times but the only reason we prevailed and stopped they monster and his puppeteers was because this was a 90s TV show and had to have a happy ending... But in reality I think it had been allowed to go on for too long and there was no way back, if the rules of our reality applied at that point in the story we would have handded Earth to a psychotic insignificant little man that would eventually proof himself a traitor by handing Earth over to the Shadows! Like I said perfect timing cos like you said its not easy to explain unless you watch the story unfold from beginning to end, had I not watched BB5 recently this video wouldn't have made to much sense to me 😊 But now that I have the near future seems pretty sad! 😞

[@altrocks]

I'll be interested to see your reasoning as to why B5 was to blame. I've watched the entire Lorerunner series on B5 long ago and it was always fun to get another perspective on a show with such depth of detail.

[@dragonstormx]

This character got more relevant when a certain someone got into office. To him and his base, criticizing him, his administration, and his rhetoric is framed as an attack on the country. Also since we rarely see Clark, the rare shot we get of him after watching the show feels like staring into the face of pure evil.

[@meghanhause9435]

I know the feeling all to well, it happen to me from a relative that I used to be close with, but when his administration got into office, I questioned that person with "Name me {insert name of the person} has every done, no matter how small it was, and when that relative didn't answer my question, I said "I hope you have buyer remorse". To which they responded with "There will be no buyer remorse." After that they wouldn't speak to me for about 3 mouths, and only after I comforted them about it, where I was told I was the "T" to word, because according to them, my two statements were nasty comments and they felt that I deserved that title.

[@peterconway6584]

Just in case there is any doubt, this was baked into the story from the very beginning. The Earth election for the Santiago/Clark administration was recurring in the background of the original B5 movie.

[@lloydthompson8260]

Please explore the treatment of the telepaths in the series!! I need a video about it.

[@corsairraven973]

Im seeing very disturbing similarities to our own situation in the states.

[@Justanotherconsumer]

We should always see these things in governments... especially if they’re governments that we like.

[@johnphillips669]

Same the left is downright dangerous.

[@Booyaka9000]

@@johnphillips669 lol, except for how **ALL** the homegrown terrorist threats are far-right extremists being incited by far-right media who won't accept clear cut election results.

[@elpugoloco3485]

@@Booyaka9000 Strange, I don’t remember BLM and Antifa being “far-right”.

[@horseradishpower9947]

Watching this on 1st January, 2022... boy is this video very good at saying what things are like now. It shows exactly what has been happening... and with luck, we will avoid the logical conclusion of such a mindset and goal path.

[@mgrimble3975]

Very interesting breakdown, just another reminder of how awesome this show was :D

[@fatproduce]

Holy shit this is hyper relevant today.

[@akirahideo6904]

the greatest plot on - how fast we forget and cannot learn from the past - - - - see current situation

[@adumbedgyname7158]

It was Clark's turn! #imwithhim #feeltheclark

[@Nastranai]

...I wish more people had watched this series. A lot of what we're seeing today in the political sphere mirrors President Clark's regime to a T.

[@MisterTutor2010]

The Clark Administration was doubleplusgood :)

[@ultraneckbeardsupreme]

Ay I mean the entirety of babylon 5 is on youtube to buy and I've bought and watched the entire series (minus a movie or two) earlier this year and honestly I had never heard of it until then but it's one of my favorite shows now. I loved the detail the show put on even some of the smaller details of the story. I'd recommend it to anyone.

[@nagillim7915]

What i liked most about this storyline is that JMS never names the political party Clarke represents. Tyranny can emerge from anywhere along the spectrum.

[@davidjones272]

It's an isolationist regime defined by hyper nationalism and xenophobia. No attempt is made to redistribute wealth. Clarke is a fascist, he's right wing.

[@nagillim7915]

@@davidjones272 - and yet any revolutionary can end up with fascistic leanings. Be they militarist nationalists like Hitler, disaffected socialists like Mussolini or self-professed communists like Stalin. Authoritarianism alway ends up using much the same playbook whatever the avowed aims of the tyranny... ...and not to forget the tyranny of transnational corporatism.

[@nagillim7915]

...and besides, if the supranationalist body that is the Earth Alliance qualifies as a nation in order for the Clarke regime to be hyper-nationalist then any form of socialism seeking to bring about a united world order is ultimately nationalist. The only form of international socialism by that metric would be one that breaks down all national and supranational institutions and systems and operates purely at a local level with no overarching power structures.

[@james8449100]

Such a good example of the change of meaning of the word anachronisms

[@LoreReloaded]

Hmm?

[@joeljohnson3515]

The series is now available on Amazon Prime.

[@donaldpaluga]

It's now airing on Comet TV as well

[@philipweismiller5135]

WOW!!! This sounds like 2020 huh???

[@thomasmccullough7233]

Pretty much a Emperor Palpatine of Earth.

[@rfletch62]

And that is why Babylon 5 should be on your watchlist.

[@casbot71]

What if? What was Clarke's endgame? What would have happened if he hadn't lost… if the _good guys_ didn't have plot armour. It's something to consider in any franchise with a overarching bad guy, what was their final goal and what would have happened in the future if they did succeed? Had Sheridan and Babylon 5 failed, had Earth Force been able to prevail against them, would the Clarke regime go on and consolidate even more power unopposed… and then what? Sign up on the side of the Shadows, or try to stay independent and get the Planet destroyed in the Shadow War, or even be able to ride it out. To give a common example on the various SciFi KZbin channels, a common examination all the Star Wars channels have done is what if the Empire won at Endore in the Yuzang Vong Expanded Universe.?

[@davidfoster8172]

ok this is scary considering what is happening today

[@TheMacKosh]

MEGA - Make Earth Great Again...

[@primafacie5029]

This aged well

[@Shard113]

Except that he had a shadow parasite in him, hence he drunk like nobody's business and left that cryptic message before killing himself. So no, he probably wasn't able to really play the shadows to the extent he would have liked or at all.

[@ipponyc]

Decided to re-watch Babylon 5. Didn't appreciate the show when I was younger because I hated the CGI. Now, looking back and watching the series on the whole, it's a pretty great show. Too bad they don't make these shows like this today.

[@captainseamonkey2947]

First off, Just Subscribed.. Second, B5 is one of, in not my Favorite Sci-Fi Series. Why? Well, there was a ton of action but the Background politics was the key to the overall story. Now, Let's talk about Fuhrer, I mean Pres. Clark. I Think his Stroke of Brilliants was the Foreign Policies. He Knew the Centauri were on a war path, instead of ignoring it, he signs a Non-Aggression Pact with them. This would Nullify any treaties with the League of Non-Allied Worlds and booster a Nationalist Pro-Earth position at home. He Removed all possible foreign enemies without firing a shot.. The Vorlons didn't care what he did, The Narns were defeated and the Minbaries wasn't about to interfere with outsiders. Clark knew the Shadows were out there with their own agenda and as long as he kept them occupied with B5 and the PsiCorp, they were not a threat to his power.. He played both ends to the middle..

[@forestwells5820]

Evert time I think about Clark, I can't help thinking about Invanova's line in the pilot. "I do not like Santiago. I've always thought a leader should have a strong chine. Santiago has NO chin, while his vice president has several. This to me is not a good combination." Not sure I agree with the bit about Clark having "several chins", but it's still a fun line to me. Also, you mentioned how Clark used a kernel of truth to spread his agenda. Oddly enough, even Sheridan mentioned it when he used the Narn to fill the suddenly empty ranks of B5 security.

[@jasonnewsham7724]

Think about it. the human race were the ones who brought the peace to so many races. so it made sense for the shadows to split that race up to destabilize the peace that so many shared. The entire storyline was so brilliant. the show never got the respect it truly deserved

[@seelenschlucht]

Does someone else see similarities between Clark and Trump too?

[@studinthemaking]

That lady at 03:13 tried to sleep with captain JS.

[@rickcoona]

How about "Redefining" *RIOT* as *PEACEFUL PROTEST*

[@jackdubz4247]

Yep. We all remember January 6th and the far right's "peaceful protest" in Washington DC.

[@kamoogy]

Seems prophetic with what's going on in 2020.

[@mattdeanmusic9739]

Nothing like 2020

[@RDMacQ]

I hate how prophetic Babylon 5 was.

[@dr666demento]

Redefining terms, banning certain critical speech, sound familiar? You know, like, Twitter, Facebook, Google, KZbin? Life _is_ imatating art...

[@ddshiranui]

@Voltaic Fire The definitions for these words have existed for decades and longer, it is merely that people nowadays are less complacent about doing something about it. Part of the problem may be that a lot of people look exclusively at the US, when other first world countries have had a more decisive approach to identify and deal with opposition to egalitarianism and democracy ever since WW2 -- see "Paradox of Tolerance". The real irony here is that you don't seem to realize that Clark's platform can be summarized as basically "Make Earth Great Again". But, keep worrying about KZbin or Twitter temporarily suspending people's throwaway accounts for posting hate speech whilst the government issues "bad word" lists to its agencies, argues away misrepresentation as "alternate facts", or engenders a climate in which law enforcement officials publicly recommend the establishment of facilities to "warehouse people until they expire". And if you haven't heard of these stories yet, perhaps you've been away from the independent mainstream media for too long.

[@reindaz]

I agree with you 1000%

[@DW-fl3ee]

Sometimes you come dangerously close to making a point Lore but don't pull the trigger. I appreciate you giving everyone a chance to form their own opinions, but it'd be nice to hear you put out a solid opinion. I don't think I agree with you politically but I think you come to your opinions with due care and process. So I keep watching. :)

[@brokeneyes6615]

A very interesting way of approaching this, how deep are you going to go with your analysis?

[@Veretax]

I'm not sure if it's the byas you pick up as a viewer from watching and be coming close to the B5 crew, but recently watches have led me to a weird conclusion. The things the Clark regime was accusing others of doing they were themselves doing which maybe is a commentary I mean in General on politics

[@Lennis01]

Authoritarians have been using that tactic for years, and it is becoming alarmingly common today.

[@stockmarketsavant7634]

This is why the series is quintessential! It [the writer] understands mankind and the repetitive nature of the quest for power, people with designs on its acquisition. Used to be it was W. that used a catastrophic event to install authoritarian regime. and we said 'This was it'. Now it is Cartagia. Which is seemingly close to Caligula. Where is Vir?

[@Norbert_Sattler]

It's scary how well JMS predicted how a democracy can gradually shift into a dictatorship and even scarier that you apparently don't even have to be as patient, cunning and intelligent about it as Clark. And before any American Republican goes up the barricades, I'm not talking about just Trump... you can see similar things happening all over the globe right now. Russia, Hungary, Turkey, Poland and more... I miss the "good old days" when we would discuss whether something like Clark's rise could really happen in reality or not, rather than the ways in which the current real-world events already resemble it. :/

[@Norbert_Sattler]

@@jkeelsnc To be frank I'm more worried about Belarus right now. They do not have a nuclear arsenal, but Lukaschenko had a lot more time and leverage to fill all positions of power with his cronies. That's a civil war in the making... And to make matters worse, if there's a civil war there right now, the refugees will become a hotbed for CoV to spread and any country that would have been willing to take them in will think twice because of the virus, which might lead to the refugees becoming desperate enough to try to force their way across borders, potentially leading to border skirmishes... The world is in a scary spot right now. I really hope the diplomatic pressure can help there. A civil war is always a horrible thing, but right now it'd be even worse I think. And just when the ultra nationalism wave in Europe showed signs of dying down again...

[@dangingerich2559]

I certainly didn't miss any of the lessons there, ESPECIALLY the lessons about the media uses for politicians.

[@1228carlito]

Classic Sun Tzu playbook and this was just a side story.

[@jasonnewsham7724]

Even after there departure there influence was still there

[@ProperLogicalDebate]

I see where the discussion has veered from Babylon 5 and into politics. So that one side speaks, and then before a response can be made says that this is only for B-5 I shall note that Clark has been used on both sides as a model for the opposition. I don't know why but I see some mixing also in the Vorlons and the Shadows. Too deep for this comment.

[@TruePacifist201]

Way I see it, the moment the comments started dragging up current day politics, it was clear that the commentors in question are missing the point. It's not "one side good, other side bad", because at the end of the day, regardless of party or rhetoric, politicians care about one thing and one thing only: power. This applies as much to fiction as it does to real life.

[@fingerboxes]

I'm sorry were you talking about Babylon 5 or about 1984?