DMP #32 - The Yogafication of Qigong

[@akuujutub]

Thanks as always. Please consider making a video on differences between chi gong/nei gong/nei dan vs pranayama and esoteric yogic systems. I'm curious about your views on how they build chi, is it the same kind of chi, does it come from the same source, etc .

[@BenJahmin108]

Love this brutal honesty. My sentiments exactly and have abandoned Teacher Trainings due to the reasons you mention. You cover everything. Thank you for speaking so bravely. ❤

[@Lichiwitch]

Really enjoyed this one Damo, I have become a little frustrated with the "yogafication" of Qigong and the bew age self appointed Guru's and Masters. The social media influencers are a plenty! After nearly 22 years I'm considering retiring from teaching community classes and just continue focusing on my own learning. 🙏

[@paulpowell774]

Love the pink pellican-chicken guiding you from the windowsill, it sees and knows all right now.

[@fondueset6034]

Do you offer naked heavy-metal nei gong weekend teacher immersions with beer? Thanks in advance!

[@DavidDoyle-ol8pe]

doesn't everyone?

[@PuggiTheGreat]

😂

[@davidcharvet3800]

Interesting qigong food for thought there Damo. I wonder if you can clarify one aspect of qigong that I haven't addressed much elsewhere. It refers to the aspect of non-breathing I watched a lecture one time by the late Nan huai-chin who I think said the ultimate form of any qiqong practice refers to the act of non-breathing or breath retention. Can you explain how non-breathing practices place you in a higher class than most because in taichi we're always told not to hold the breath and breath naturally?

[@PuggiTheGreat]

Exactly the same thing happened with the commodification of mindfulness with teacher training programs. I’m 62, been Buddhist since I was about 18, a Buddhist Monk for 10 years and I can honestly say that what’s taught as mindfulness now is so watered down that it’s become almost nothing but mental relaxation, not a bad thing but it’s not mindfulness and I’ve found that many so called modern mindfulness teachers are very ignorant of what’s really involved in real Buddhist mindfulness practice, all foundational requirements are gone… the modern mindfulness movement is awful despite what many say though there is a lot of money to be made in teaching it, it is very superficial.

[@Scoottoots]

Good that you took the time (lots of time :-) to talk about this. Lots of people mistake imagination and emotional states for real progress, and so they are ripe pickings for these 'teachers' who likely began with similar delusions. I don't think there is anything we can do about it except be truthful when asked. Most people do not have the nature to properly practice nei dan qigong but they are attracted by the wrapping, so they make it into what they desire and imagine... and on it goes. The saddest part of it for me is when I see people that I know have studied and practiced the art for decades with discipline and integrity, fall off that path and begin offering these month long certification courses, often targeted to women as 'goddess tantric training' etc. Cheer, I enjoyed the video 🙂

[@sandrasakurasatori1560]

thanks i have enjoyed very much the ramble on this topic 🙏✨

[@yseultCH]

Very astute and accurate observations.

[@milangraner2256]

Thank you Very much for killing me 🙏 Beautiful podcast ❤

[@JeanFrumen]

Thank you, appreciate you sharing this. 🙏🏼

[@edcat6587]

Totally agree with you on most of what you said. One thing i do like about the abundance of classes in chi kung, is that there actually ARE some c lasses.......(as compared to having to travel for many hours to find a class).......and i can practice what i have"learned" in them in a different setting than my usual setting. For me,practicing at a deeper level is much harder in a room with other people(especially beginners),than my usual practice, which is by myself in nature. So it is a different challenge, and has its own "benefits" from going deeper into "the basics" in that type of beginner group practice. (for me,anyway)....also, i do find it inspires me to practice more on my own,outside of a class. And i remember,or discover,different things during a group practice(often with help/guidance of the teacher,but also by seeing other people-even by seeing "wrong" posture,or habits in others that remind me of the habits,conditioning, in myself). I just started taking a "seniors"chi kung class ,it is very beginner,and most of the students do not (yet)really understand much. I have been "spoiled"a bit by having some great teachers,and always want to have that quality of teacher/practices....but if that is not available,i take what i can get,and just try and develope more depth and understanding of the real basics.and i get a lot out of a class. So for me, there may be a benefit to having classes taught by a "beginner", but ,only because i have had previous experienced teachers and can work on making the practice more "real"than possibly presented..... Thanks so much for all your sharing and teaching.

[@danceofthedragonbydavidlee]

People don’t realize how long it takes to actually understand how qigong works. Qigong takes rears to reveal itself in the body.

[@cletusgadsden2969]

?

[@danceofthedragonbydavidlee]

@@cletusgadsden2969 my point exactly.

[@cletusgadsden2969]

Ok

[@supinthiam5741]

Wonder why that is

[@danceofthedragonbydavidlee]

@@supinthiam5741 In the beginning we use the external to move the internal. When you can use the internal to move the external, you can begin to teach. That’s kind of it in a nutshell.

[@mary-anncarleton7578]

❤❤❤ I love mixing chi ging and yoga. I might not be able to " name " it all however it is a great way to be. That's what counts.

[@henoch5625]

Is it Kouksundo you are practicing? Its the only school I know they are mixing it.

[@thimo6295]

I think I'm 100% with you when it's about quality. At the same time I'm not sure if people who are interested in the arts would have gone on theor journey if it wouldn't be for the simplified "capitalistic" versions of the arts

[@watterbotttle84]

Agreed, for many the goal of physical health and the joy of the flowing movements are the catalyst to deeper work. Indeed why Asana is so early in the series of limbs.

[@taichime5405]

Unfortunately there are weekend tai chi instructor certifications for 20 hours.that are rampant

[@joaocunha5701]

This type of hyper-fast courses will give rise to popularity in the name qigong. But we definitely won't have many people doing qigong. they will do something completely different and call it qigong. The problem will be in the results you will obtain with this practice. most likely the lack of good results. Which trivializes the art of qigong, just as it happened with yoga. I underwent qigong training for 5 years. Afterwards, I began training in a tradition of internal arts of Japanese origin for 7 years. I also trained in traditional Chinese medicine for 5 years. I continue to study and practice and the results of practice come from respecting certain principles. I have colleagues who have been practicing for a long time and still have no perception of qi, no experience of absorbing consciousness, moving chi, opening channels, much less have they touched on other abilities such as turning the mind into a mirror and reflecting the observed objective in its various dimensions. We need more people like Damo who establish and clearly define the universal principles of these internal oriental arts. Regardless of the style they will be there. Its just the form used that is changed, but the result is the same. Thank best regards.

[@auskadi]

Can someone help me connect to the academy discord channels? I keep connecting and disconnecting with no luck getting past the incoming channel

[@riptiz]

Most of the asana people wouldn’t spend the time to do the traditional yoga for union as they would get bored. It takes a lot of dedication.

[@sinabehbahani7746]

- Done several online programs for 2 years - In person taiji practice fir 3 years - I am an healthcare specialist. - I Continuesly search, read books, meet people, involve in the art on daily bases And the idea of teaching and how much I can not do scares me... 20 days teaching certificate!? Well, what should I say!!

[@TalkingMonkey1]

McDojo -> McYoga -> McTaiji -> McQigong. Perhaps they are defacto Initiations into Outer Door type practices. People have to start somewhere, but it would be good for teachers to be able to convey paths (even if not through them) to deeper practices for those with the interest and developed self-discipline.

[@not-one-not-two]

Can you do Yoga and Qigong at the same time?

[@tynxtdoor4050]

Hi everyone I have kundalini syndrome the energy is literally stuck in my head causing intense head pressure for the past month I have went to regular medical doctors and done mri head scans they couldn’t find anything .then I went online and did some research and found out about something called kundalini syndrome. My question is do u guys know how I can fix it plz help me this is very debilitating for me .

[@edcat6587]

Perhaps a good classical Chinese medicine practicioner could help you with some personally evaluated treatment. In my experience,one of the ways I get things wrong is self diagnosis without having the experience and knowledge to actually make a correct self diagnosis.....nothing against trying,but I find having someone else ,who is experienced and knowledgeable,confirm things is a good idea. best wishes.

[@igorhocevar4228]

Contact Swami G

[@valesheart]

Most funny thing I realised after listening to the podcast and seeing the cover is, that it is a young woman stretching in a Yoga outfit next to a lake

[@urielpolak9949]

Savasana is a deep practice reduced to a corpse being just empty.

[@diegobrito7905]

Hey Dammo, when someone start in their training do we need to start doing tree posture daily or stilling the jing daily or both daily?

[@Gongchime]

Getting my certification in cakra cleansing. Wink wink.

[@smarthalleck3233]

50 years ago we wouldn’t have been even having this discussion/conversation. Musk starts with the Root/Trunk then moves on to the branch’s then the leaves Whatever we are doing, I’m glad for the exposure and thankful for you Damo helping continue the evolution 🤡

[@SnakeAndTurtleQigong]

🙏

[@urielpolak9949]

Yoga: everyone is a teacher now

[@premzing]

It is agreed that those teaching should have the blessing of the teacher who sees that they have the correct character or else everything will be an extension of the students aggression and obscured if an empire is achieved, which begs the question , when Damo started teaching did he have the blessing of his teacher ( or permission) ? or was he , by his own admission, the obnoxious agressive youth setting himself up as a teacher without teachers blessing ? as the teacher's names were never mentioned , as usually a teacher is always revering their teacher and telling the students about how they have permission and are asked to teach by their mentor, and telling the students who specifically they learned each of the components of their craft from.

[@LotusNeiGong]

Yes, I was told to teach, yes, I was given permission to teach and yes, I have always had the blessing of the people who taught me. If you took ten minutes to check my bio on my website, you would see teachers names and no, I don’t think I was ready when I started. Any other of the same old questions from people like yourself on the net you would like me to answer? 🤦‍♂️

[@premzing]

@@LotusNeiGong Hi first thanks for the information that you collated during your life. I was wondering who taught you the ji ben qigong foundation exercises ? as you taught them in a fashion first and later completely revamped and enhanced them . And in a podcast you say you never liked tai chi as it does not look macho yet on your bio page it states "Taijiquan immediately captivated Damo and so he began to focus his efforts onto the internal arts" . People like myself ? drowning in ignorance with few people to trust as most (leaders) are just good at marketing so one has to ask questions that may seem pertinent.

[@LotusNeiGong]

JBQG were taught to me by my uncle and they adapted in principles as I got better at them and went deeper into the practice. Taiji was my love for many years and then I moved passed it. Ha ha, I am kidding when I tease Taiji for not being macho. You need to realise that many things I say are my sense of humour. My podcasts are me joking around. They don’t work for people who can’t understand humour :) Taiji is not my main interest any more, no, I have moved on.

[@premzing]

@@LotusNeiGong ok thanks, I may subscribe to your academy.

[@irmareeves]

Hi Damo, I've been following your programs / podcasts for some years and surprised that you're setting classes in BALI , how do I get in touch to know more details ? please

[@irmareeves]

I'm Indonesian, living now in Jakarta ( from Virginia, USA ).

[@DavidDoyle-ol8pe]

I am in complete agreement with you, but at 21.14 you fell prey to exactly what we (traditional Qi Gong teachers) tend to say when you referred to Qi Gong becoming "yoga" rather than saying "Sport Yoga" or something that delineates the difference between real traditional yoga and the subject of this video, Sport Yoga (what i have begun referring to it as) or Asana Calithentics. I am in no way trying to harp on this slip of the tounge, but rather, i would like to form a proper reference term to this false use of the term Yoga and see a regular term for what i call Sport Yoga / Pseudo Yoga / Western Movements Stretching / or please, put forth a term that you might like. Anyone reading this, if you have a better term to coin the westernized use of asanas in stretching classes that is not yoga but called yoga, please put them forth. We need to coin a term and use it, so that the public understands the difference or at least that we create a conscious node to the fact that there is a difference.

[@DavidDoyle-ol8pe]

McYoga certainly demeans what they are doing and i could not agree more with your assessment of some of the other stuff. I once went to a Massage Envy and understand what you are talking about. I would like a moniker that they can find palatable. One they might actually adopt. One that the Yoga Journal might start to use.@@projekt5219

[@matthiasdebusschere]

Yes, good to have a term and use it, McYoga is pretty funny. Still the question remains: what defines Yoga not being McYoga? ‘Serious teachers’ speaking words about ‘lineage’ and ‘tradition’, an altar with a perfect picture of krishnamacharya? Or just a good old certification paper on the wall of the shala? I completely get your point, but it has gotten so far that ironically McYoga is sometimes at least a bit more honest than the ‘real yoga’..

[@kellharris2491]

@@matthiasdebusschere Everyone has to do there own due diligence.

[@DavidDoyle-ol8pe]

I would disagree on the last point. Real Yoga is actually pretty straight forward. It consists of a whole assortment of inner practices, and inner disciplines. It is a relatively in-depth life change, depending on the level of commitment. Whereas, i met with one young woman who was studying on the grass near the marina where i live and who i had seen often practicing asanas. I asked her a bit about her linage and meditation practice and here is what i got paraphrased: "Oh, im actually studying for a teacher certification im going to in Sweden. But i haven't done any of the head stuff yet, though at some point i think it would be a good idea." No one in any semblance of Real Yoga would say something like what she said. Nor would they be even considered to be moving toward a teacher level. @@matthiasdebusschere

[@yea_mark]

56:26

[@markluma98]

Nobody has fckd up Yoga like the Bikram Yoga dude ! He wrecked Yoga for everybody by his predatory monstrosity !

[@AlanSkirving]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Body Mark Singleton did some interesting research on the asana / posture practice within the Yoga tradition - his argument seems to be that the modern asana practice isn't an ancient Yogic tradition - based on his research, some of this may have been adopted from Western gymnastics, popular at the time in India - "from the 1920s, an asana-based yoga emerged, with an emphasis on its health benefits, and flowing sequences (vinyasas) adapted from the gymnastics of the physical culture movement. This was encouraged by Indian nationalism, with the desire to present an image of health and strength." - so, the 'asana' limb of Yoga, *may* have been 'traditionally' mainly referring to cultivation of a seated meditation posture, and not a series of exercises - as far as I know, Singleton seems to be claiming there is no historical evidence of these exercises pre 20thC.

[@aleksandarbijelic9358]

It's a little bit more complicated than that. What you wrote refres mainly to so called vinyasa styles of yoga. Dattatreyayogasastra mentions 84000 asanas in 13th century, and Hathapradipika desrcibes 84 asanas in 17th century. Standing asana like in wu ji meditation has been known since Jain times.

[@DavidDoyle-ol8pe]

This is basically true, if you read the Yoga Sutras, you are reading Pantanjali speaking of Yoga at a time when Yoga was meditation practice and prior to asanas. It is considered the sacred book of Yoga. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga_Sutras_of_Patanjali. I am in no way arguing against asanas, they have their place, particularly after meditation, as a way to move the energies of meditation out into the gross physical, gross subtle and subtle bodies.

[@matthiasdebusschere]

Fascinating book, The Yoga Body. Ido Portal recommended it in an interview, that’s how I stumbled upon it.

[@AlanSkirving]

apparently 8 million asanas - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dattatreya_Yoga_Shastra - sounds a bit dubious...@@aleksandarbijelic9358