Difference Between A Bowling Ball Drilled Pin up and Pin Down | WHEN To Use Each!

Today we are talking the differences between a bowling ball that is drilled pin up vs when it is drilled pin down as well as when to use each of them. Best use cases and surfaces for each!
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[@Da_Love74]

Great video...I watched another pin up / pin down video before this because I didn't understand the difference and yours was much more informative! The other video didn't even show the pins on the balls!

[@user-iw1ce8pm8c]

Great video Luis love your informative videos I feel like I am learning so much watching them

[@LuisNapoles]

Glad you like them! I really appreciate that!

[@TheSarakatus]

Im Sad to say it, but the RG part of the explanation is wrong. An here is why: The Pin (in his cases the yellow dot above or below the fingers) marks the high RG Axis on the core/ball, while the small Global Logo or Mass Bias Marker (to the right an below the Thumbhole of both balls) shows the lowest RG axis of the core/ball. Lets assume that the finger holes roughly deduct the same amount of mass from the ball (for simplicity). If we now check where the center of the grip lies for the first layout, we can see, that it is roughly just in the middle between pin and Mass Bias. This should result (Depending on Core Design )in nearly zero change to the Stock RG and Differential (wich is the difference between the High RG number and the Low RG number) For the second layout, the center of grip is much closer to the pin, so we are removing mass closer to the high RG side, effectively reducing the overall RG of the ball and also reducing the Differential aka flare potential. Now lets get to the conclusion how the balls should react when comparing them. The left ball with pin up drilling should go a touch longer thanks to the higher overall RG wich gets countered by the higher Differential by a bit. The shape of the hook should be quite a bit more angular when compared to the pin down ball. The pin down ball however will start EARLYER, due to the lower overall RG with less overall hook due to less Diff/Hook Potential and a much smoother transition. So his conclusions for the estimated ball reactions is also more of a mixed bag. Lets talk about those Statements. Pin up Ball: Its going to be earlier! -> Generally NO! Pin up vs Pin down, the ball will have a higher overall RG wich will bring the ball further down the Lane. However higher diff. aka hook potential vs the pin down ball can counteract that. Its going to have a stronger reaction -> Yep! Its going to "shape" (whatever that should mean...I guess angular) more. -> Yep! Pin Down: Hook a little bit less -> Yep! It wants to go more down lane -> Nope! Since overall RG is lower, it wants to start sooner, but since it hooks less and less strong of the spot you could be deceived to think so. It has a more round hook shape -> Yes! Then seeing his ball reactions I can understand where he is coming from with his assessment. But what happens is different from what he feels. The pin down ball has much more read in the midlane and therefore less and smoother hook when getting into the dry, while the pin up reads much less and therefore unleashes everything at the end resulting in that early and stronger feeling. At last just a little question mark that popped up while i was going through the video back and forth. The layouts are told to be 30x4.5x30 and 30x4.5x70. On asymmetric balls you pull your first line from the Pin to the PAP contrary so symmetric balls, were you go through the CG Marker. So if you just change the last angle, the MB marker will end up further away from the thumbhole to the right! On those balls its the opposite! The only thing I could Imagine is, that the balls were layed out using the symmetric method. This is overall not a big deal but shifts the pin down ball a touch more in the "goes longer" area. I am sorry for this critique, but there is enough just wrong in those explanations that I really felt the need to at least try to correct them.

[@RobertoFernandez-dy7hi]

Good vid, Luis! Happy New Year to you and the fam!

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks so much Roberto!

[@CaliSteeler]

Appreciate the insights, thanks. Just started league bowling 1.5 yrs ago and have only used 1 ball (my first and only) for all shots & all games. I'm just now considering a second ball and have questions about what kind of ball and how I should have it drilled. This video has cleared up some of the mystery 👍🙌🙏

[@Cysalazar-es2wq]

Also thank you for explaining it in the best way I ever herd because I finaly understand it now

[@LuisNapoles]

Any time!

[@cesaralvarez3298]

Wanted to say thank you Luis!! I took your advice and used a 1k than a 2k pad on the journey. Bowled a 257 first game after that change

[@LuisNapoles]

Let’s Goooooooo!

[@commonsense3910]

Thank you for your help and explanation of pin up and pin down. I have a fatal venom and I just don’t like the end reaction. After watching your videos I have decided to have it redrilled to pin down. Hopefully with this and the polished pearl finish I can control it better.

[@LuisNapoles]

Fingers crossed!

[@user-gt1wr1vh3i]

Another good one Luis to launch 2024! If I were to get an Eternity Pi, I would probably get it drilled pin down.

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks!

[@irishchewiegaming]

Great video. Most of my balls are pin up I have a dv8 mindset that’s pin down so for me it’s hard to adjust during league but I think with your video I’ll be able to do more now and understand clearer.

[@TajirisBallReviews]

Good job explaining this correctly tons of people out there get this wrong. Coverstock strength + surface dictate a lot.

[@LuisNapoles]

A Tajiri sighting! Thanks for that man! Yea to many people ask about layout when really cover means so much more

[@Heelmode]

Great video Luis! Any shot you could do a video on different cover stocks?

[@LuisNapoles]

Yea will do!

[@261982brandon]

Great video

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks!

[@VicTSlots]

Great video. I will eventually get a pro shop to actually watch and map everything for me. Pap, axis, etc. Interesting that you had foot issues at Sam's. I feel it's the best approach in the entire city. Thanks for another great video

[@LuisNapoles]

South point has way better approach’s imo

[@VicTSlots]

@@LuisNapoles I haven't bowled there in a while, but you're not the 1st person I have heard that from recently

[@TeamZenBowling]

Great video Luis! I have a Eternity pi drilled pin up but it has been reading the lane too early for me and overhooking forcing me to play inside when my A game is normally straighter or around the track area. Do you think I should change the surface to 3k or 4k fast?

[@larrylacroix3944]

Very informative. I think they both looked good going down the lane. Would pin down be better for low speed low rev bowler or pin up which is what I throw now. Also is league back tonight

[@LuisNapoles]

Yes definitely cause the stronger pin up layouts can hook super early and burn up

[@stephenflagor8233]

LooKs like you bowl great with both! Thanks for showing me the difference.

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks for watching!

[@keithmartin2529]

I drilled my extreme envy pin down and love it

[@LuisNapoles]

Nice’

[@chadmichaelmobile4743]

I always thought pin down started earlier and arced more and pin up was the "long and strong" position.

[@LuisNapoles]

That’s the old thinking

[@davidstrom9076]

Do you mean pin up is more angular?

[@shawn180]

So I’m looking to buy a Brunswick Twist. I’m a casual bowler not looking to go pro but I wanna throw strikes. This would be my first ball. What would you recommend for my new ball?

[@timriecken5453]

Question for u. I had a bank roll from 2016 that had only 30 or so games on it. Stored in the house in my bag the entire time... I have had a lot of medical issues so it literally just sat for a couple years. I pulled it out to make sure I could handle throwing again and it is split 360 degrees basically through the fingertips. Was that a poor drill? Or a defective ball? Storm said that it can't be drilled less than an inch from the pin and it appears to have been AT 1" if it's close. I would say less than an inch. Is that why it split? Obv not under warranty anymore either way but I'm thinking Hammer now because of what happened to my 900 global. Black widow 2.0 hybrid is top of my list currently. I have mad love for the teal rhino pro that they re released too. Can't decide.

[@Okeedoke22]

I struggle game 3. Over/under ,carry down just a struggle. My question is if I have a big assyn but it’s pearl will hitting it with surface be enough. Or should it be solid. I have the eternity rather than eternity pi

[@ronaldstephenson4308]

Hope you can do one changing where the mass bias moves but pin is in the same place.

[@johnsoneal]

Storm has 3 videos that break this concept into 3 parts to let you see what Luis is talking about about.

[@LuisNapoles]

Will do!

[@cryptonator1988]

I was always told the opposite. I was told pin up was a weaker reaction and meant to be cleaner in front store more energy and have more backend, as opposed to pin down is more of a rounded shape earlier roll motion reads lanes early but loses more energy as it gets further down lane. Either way their are aggressive layouts both pin down and pin up i believe so it all depends on how its drilled i never seem too have good luck with pro shops. They drill my ball and it don't hook.. ive had only 1-2 guys ever drill a ball correctly for me where it hooked and matched my playing style. I love when a pro shop says this ball might be too aggressive for you lol ive never had a ball too aggressive for me ever lol.. im a low-med rev player more of a tweener/stroker probably dont have a huge tilt axis if i had to guess but i can strike and average 200+ for many years.. i don't bowl anymore though unfortunately im a truck driver and just don't have the time anymore. I bought 2 new bowling balls a bag and shoes a few years ago and i gave it back to the shop and said here give it too a deserving junior bowler no bs true story.. the pro shop guy was in shock like wtf if i sell this ill give you a call i said don't even worry about it.. i knew i had to quit bowling it was a emotional feeling for me but im okay now.. 👍 👌

[@cryptonator1988]

My favorite ball too this day is roto grip Defiant i bowled so well with that ball everyone on my league after they seen how well i bowled with it went and bought one.. needless to say they never figured out the ball the way i did they all said it was too aggressive lol.. unfortunately that ball split in half in my bowling bag years later.. also my other favorite ball was atomic energy by track i believe that ball was the most angular ball ive ever throw my league hated when i used that ball because i won the side pots every week lol.. the atomic energy the further right i threw it the more strikes i received it was wild..

[@rogercarlson2330]

what i noticed at 20x 500. the pin to pap at 4 x 45 and by 70 doesn't make much difference for me. but a short pin is my goto for alot of things. thanks again for all of your help. also its always been taught to go aggressive to not so much as the night progresses., but i have been doing the opposite lately with shocking results.....

[@LuisNapoles]

Thats definitely interesting!

[@ericpadilla2454]

Thank you Luis for eating the last piece of cake....

[@LuisNapoles]

Is this a fat joke? Cause if it is its not a good one LOL

[@joen5332]

When you say you're making adjustment for two exactly what are you referring to 4 on the approach and two on the lane

[@its_Kris]

nice save @ 6:31 👏🏼

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks! I thought I was a gonner lol

[@d-money5976]

Rather interesting I came across this video..... a little over a month ago I got a Radical Trail Blazer solid on sale and had it drilled pin up .... I less than a week and never throwing it I picked a second one and had it drilled pin down.....and I tested both out to see the difference in ball reaction and movement. I soon figured the pin down would be the starter and most of the time can use all 3 games but when there are games I notice a big difference in the carry down I switch to the pin up... and major tip to all bowlers ...always pay attention to the reaction to others bowlers ..for me , most of the time I make my adjustments or ball changes based on what reaction I see from others .....and many times I've been asked how is it you stay consistent as though the lane conditions never changed for yo but yet we've all over the place.

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks for the tip!

[@liquidrock2u]

I just bought a Track Stealth solid. I'd like it to be a bit smoother and straighter down lane. Would you say pin down would be best for that?

[@LuisNapoles]

Yes 100%

[@jimmyscott6159]

Luis could you have accomplished the same thing by going to a shiny surface on the pin down layout on the burned lane instead of the pin up?

[@LuisNapoles]

I can see that ye!

[@rogerrussell6293]

pin down look very good

[@paulmardis1512]

I bought a Hustle Camo almost a year ago. My PSO drilled it Pin Down because he stated control during the 3rd game in league after transition. I've bowled with it twice and it just sits at the bottom of my bag. I have better luck with my IQ Fusion during the 3rd game than my hustle. Do you think I should get it plugged and re-drilled pin-up?

[@LuisNapoles]

I would try it yea!

[@markmezzasalma309]

If my spot is usually 2nd to third arrow and I have my new Roto Grip TNT 🧨 drilled slightly lower then the Pin Up, which board should I place my left foot ?

[@LuisNapoles]

That’s IMPOSSIBLE for me to help you with. There’s sooo many factors that go into answering this question!

[@dannontodd390]

The only true way for bowlers to SEE the difference is from an aerial view of different layouts. Because a bowling line/shape looks incredibly different from above than behind. In fact, when looking from a true straight down view, many shots (even if it’s a high flaring, angular shape) APPEARS to be be far straighter. The explanation is pretty well spot on and I have a 40x4.5x75 on my Pi and it took some time to get used to it. The Pi has big asym core and I, personally, have found that the same 40x75 layout is much more user friendly on a decent symmetric ball like a Verge or hell even an IQ. They just roll different.

[@LuisNapoles]

I would agree but I only have one camera ya know.

[@ppipanman]

"Don't take a Hustle and drill it pin down" My USA is pin down and out hooks everything in my bag. Most likely because it's polished (surface prep for the win!) LOL the oil rings on the track literally touch and it should not hook, but VTC ... because bowling, thats why :D

[@hersheljones9467]

So my question is which would be better for short medium and long sport shot?

[@LuisNapoles]

So surface will make an even larger impression on sport shots

[@nordattack]

One minor correction Lou, the greater the Differential the greater the 'Flare Potential,' not necessary the greater the Hook Potential, if by hook you mean curve. Balls with High Diff and High Flare layouts will read the lane earlier and tend to be very smooth and forward vs. Low Diff balls which tend to retain energy and curve more in the back. If I want a ball to be early and forward and go pretty straight I choose a ball with a Low RG and High Diff and drill it for Max Flare, then it will read early and be very mild without much side to side motion. If I want a ball to snap in the back and be clean in the front, then I choose a ball with High RG and Low Diff and drill it to not flare much, then that ball will do all its work in the back of the lane with significant side to side motion and continuation. That is my experience with layouts on different ball types.

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks!

[@joshspears5383]

This may be a stupid question but if you're a thumbless bowler, couldn't your ball technically be pin up or pin down dependent on how you pick up the ball?

[@darrenchambers3042]

I HAVE A PIN DOWN 65 X4.5 X 70 Cuda solid for fresh it is great.

[@LuisNapoles]

Nice!

[@SirJoelsuf1]

Said this on JR Raymond's channel, and I'm gonna say it here. Probably gonna say it on other videos that go into layouts: Too many bowlers obsess about layouts when they really have no business doing so. Learn where you need to put the ball, what solid execution entails, and how to be consistent first. Get those fundamentals down. THEN obsess about layouts. Always makes me roll my eyes when I see these bowlers who just spray and pray and can't put two good shots together talk about layouts constantly but think leaving a 2 pin means they got robbed on a "good shot" (fun fact; a 2 pin is NEVER the result of a good shot; if you 2 pinned, you were literally an inch away from washing out.) Then proceed to whiff said 2 pin half the time cuz they foolishly think they can hook at it. And yes I meant 2 pin not 10 pin. Bowlers are now so out of fundamentals that they complain about leaving 2s as well as 10s. How about you get the fundamentals down, get your PAP measured (multiple times a season and by more than JUST ONE pro shop btw), then obsess about layouts? Don't want to do that? Fine. Not my money you're wasting when you drop $300 on a new ball that you don't understand one iota.

[@robertd.6941]

Great video. However that's no why he "stuck". It wasn't the approach, his hand came around early and his thumb didn't release. He didn't stick on his 1st shot, he came out of the thumb more cleanly. Overall good info. on layouts.

[@LuisNapoles]

👍

[@dinod682]

I still think layouts do matter. I had an old melee cross from 2015. I had it drilled to be smoother reacting for sport shots. That ball is very early and smooth in design meant to blend out a pattern. In short went too weak with the layout. It reacted like urethane. I tried hitting the surface with 3000 4000 then polish to give it some shape on the back end. Surface change did nothing. Had 12 games on it when I stopped using it in 2015. Took it too the pro shop last season to plug and redrill. I said drill this ball pin up as aggressive as possible. It worked! The ball had backend and reacted completely different. It was like a completely different ball.

[@LuisNapoles]

Nice

[@jodawago]

My pin down balls start moving earlier with less angle and my pin up balls go longer with a stronger angle. I do not see the same reaction as you described in your video out of any of my equipment. Very strange.

[@davidstrom9076]

Same. Surface, revs, and speed are huge factors.

[@TraumaER]

IMO, as long as your layout doesn't cause the oil rings to cross over the fingers or thumb, one should be more worried about coverstock and their accuracy. Too many league bowlers blame the ball when they miss their mark by 5+ boards regularly.

[@SirJoelsuf1]

LMAO seriously. "Man, I got robbed on that (insert single pin leave here)!" The layout on my ball totally sucks! No, genius. You don't know where you're supposed to put the ball, don't know where your feet should be, and most important can't repeat any good shot that you accidently make. Git Gud.

[@LuisNapoles]

Surface will always be the most important

[@alansabin7487]

ok i have two phase two balls. one is drilled pin up and the other pin down. pin down hooks mid lane and keeps hooking [ nice arc on ball. the other pin up goes down lane then hooks sharper. seams opposite of what you are saying. i have had these two ball for a few years and i'm a pba 50 bowler.

[@LuisNapoles]

Surface matters a lot with this

[@johnnyrock852]

Looks like the pin down has less surface. Is that something you believe to be a good suggestion as well? Love the vid?

[@LuisNapoles]

In the video they are the same surface

[@endystrike000]

I honestly don't like that much in general the shape that pin down balls produce on the lane... So usually I ask to drill them pin up as I really live to see a more angular shape... But it's just a personal preference!

[@SkateClipsAndTips]

I am the opposite, for fresh house shot at my local center I use a pin up "length and backend" layout for my forge fire. The fresh oil is pretty slick, then when the lanes transition I swap to my pin down pearl rhino pro gold vintage remake. It always works out for me, every house shot is different though depending on the oil machine they use, how much viscosity the oil is, and what kind of oil they use. My bowling style is stroker with lower revs, so I think pin up works better for me. Btw you made a typo in the video title, you misspelled "when"

[@LuisNapoles]

Nice! Yes I fixed it 😂😂

[@SkateClipsAndTips]

@@LuisNapoles But yeah layouts can vary depending on the local house you bowl on. Some are drier than others

[@adamabdelaziz4586]

Why don’t you do a pin down layout on the Magic Gem

[@LuisNapoles]

Would prob be really good! I just don’t have another one!

[@adamabdelaziz4586]

If I remember correctly the pin down layout you put on the eternity pi is 30x4-1/2x70, is that correct?

[@ezbutton000]

I have to disagree on the general effect of pin up vs down on RG on a ball with a thumb hole. On pin up, the thumb hole will remove material from the side of the core, resulting in higher RG and higher RG differential. On pin down, the thumb hole removes material from the top of the core, resulting in lower RG and lower RG diff. Overall the difference in RG is typically .01 - .02.

[@LuisNapoles]

Okay!

[@ezbutton000]

@@LuisNapolesshould have also started with this: I love your channel - keep it up!

[@matthewjspain9399]

Do you change wrist positions as you encounter different oil patterns? I notice in this video,youre fingers are at 4 oclock. Just asking,because i personally can throw the ball at 3,4,5,6,and rarely 7 oclock.

[@LuisNapoles]

The pros do! I don’t lol

[@saltychristian2528]

So the dot above the fingers indicates pin up whereas the dot below the fingers represents pin down? Easy enough for me to remember.

[@ramondelgado4181]

The first thing I saw between each ball before you threw the first shot is that each ball has a different surface, one is shinier then the other, you could see it while they were on the table. It's a know fact that ball surface has a bigger impact then layout!

[@SkateClipsAndTips]

He mentioned that in the beginning that surface is a major factor before considering pin up or pin down layouts. You need to look at your surface of the ball and think how much reaction it will have according to the pin locations

[@ramondelgado4181]

I know what he mentioned at the beginning of the video, but if was to make a true comparison between pin up and pin down, both balls should have the same surface. This is the crux of my statement!

[@kevinmueller6737]

@@ramondelgado4181 I'm pretty sure later in the video he did mention that both had the same surface. If not, like you said, it's not a fair comparison between how they're drilled. I'll go back and look and put a time stamp in another reply if he did mention it.

[@kevinmueller6737]

@@ramondelgado4181Go to 12:00, he mentions that the only difference is the pin placement, including the same surface. Hope that helps.

[@ramondelgado4181]

@@kevinmueller6737 I don’t care what he said, I can look at the balls and can tell that one is shiny and the other is dull! I’ve checked the surface of brand new balls out of the box and can tell you that they come out of box with different numbers! Just saying!

[@benpezzot8805]

I like pin up for higher rg balls i like pin down for a ball like the marvel pearl

[@LuisNapoles]

I can get with that!

[@benpezzot8805]

@@LuisNapoles but especially the sublime and summit series pin down

[@louiscornale5667]

Bowl on one bowl on 52 bar open?

[@LuisNapoles]

???

[@blackjack7811]

That could have been Barney Rubble going down the lane.

[@LuisNapoles]

Could have haha and NOT a foul cause I didn’t let go of the ball 😂😂😂

[@blackjack7811]

@@LuisNapoles no you didn't foul. Google, Barney Rubble and bowling video. Barney goes down the lane with the ball. I'm glad you did not get hurt.

[@steveboone1498]

​@@LuisNapoles Only on the PlayStation one game Ten Pin Alley you can foul and still hold on to the ball.

[@crimsontide1980]

​@steveboone1498 Hell yea!!!! God, ain't thought about that game in a LONG time!! Spent many a hours playing that one. Was so cartoony looking but it actually had very good pin physics and crazy characters. I need to find my old PS1

[@steveboone1498]

@@crimsontide1980 you can use a PS2 to play that game or even a ps3

[@turnerfish5195]

Hey man not a big deal but you have a typo in your title it says wehn

[@LuisNapoles]

Whoops! Thanks! I changed it

[@stormb28]

I’d add pin down asymmetrical, pin down symmetric balls for most don’t have enough motion

[@remoevans7847]

For most rev challenged bowlers that’s true. Not so much for most mid-high rev rate bowlers.

[@showmethegoods]

So you want to drill pin down for more reaction?

[@LuisNapoles]

Yea I can get with that

[@edwh164]

So if I understood correctly, Pin up is more aggressive and pin down is a longer down lane ball, correct?

[@LuisNapoles]

yup!

[@kdrkid81]

Tom Laskow drills my balls. He was a pba pro and invented many many pro shop tools everyone uses including the oval edge. He knows fit better than almost anyone on this planet according to daniel puerto and he told me that until a bowler had the correct fundamentals, pap doesnt mean jack lol. Curious your thoughts on this. Now once a player has correct form, a free arms swing and good release, then it matters.

[@NewVisionLCS]

My Pro Shop owner told me the same thing! You have to get your fundamentals down first before you really start changing the ball.

[@showmethegoods]

I use the Pro-Sect every time I layout and drill balls. However I would challenge him on the statement that PAP doesn't mean jack until you have correct fundamentals. Or at least have him define what correct fundamentals mean. If it means "a correct form, a free arm swing and good release" then most intermediate to pro bowlers would not have to lay out their equipment. And on a side note: Free arm swing is a myth 😉. Especially if you want to keep up with the two handers

[@NewVisionLCS]

@@showmethegoods I just started bowling and got my first balk which is a Storm Tropical Surge. So he did a general layout based on my hand to see where I'm at.

[@showmethegoods]

@@NewVisionLCS That does make sense

[@NewVisionLCS]

@@showmethegoods thank you!

[@danielflack1369]

LOL -ve never used a pin down ball - 68 yr old 2 hander coming to Vegas to bowl you !! - challenge

[@LuisNapoles]

lol

[@enniojosefelicecisneros3417]

when i played i used pin down.

[@showmethegoods]

I don't think those two balls have the same drill angle. Keeping the drill angle the same and going higher with the VAL angle will result in the pin moving closer to the grip center but it will also move the MB towards the VAL. On the pin down ball the MB was closer to the thumb compared with the pin up. Which suggest a higher drill angle on the pin down ball. So the balls are not drilled with the same drill angle. Besides that the information is correct. Pin up generally hook earlier but they also have a sharper break point and cover more boards. Pin down is weaker and smoother. And this is something people often get mixed up. In my pro shop bowlers often ask for pin up to get more length for drier lanes. And that is not how it works 😊

[@LuisNapoles]

🤷‍♂️

[@DanceVids]

Balk! 😂

[@markmatroni631]

Balk! Runners advance

[@LuisNapoles]

😂😂😂😂

[@rogerpetree8736]

The pin up looked pretty dull and sanded compared to the pin down. That would make a giant difference.

[@Cysalazar-es2wq]

11:22, ugly in a good or bad way?

[@Tenpinmaster]

looked very good for me (continuous) which is what you want normaly.

[@LuisNapoles]

Ugly like it might never see the friction and blow past the break point

[@Brian_B300]

I love weaker symmetrical rocks drilled pin down for garbage time in longer format tournaments. When 190 is a good game I know they will get to the pocket. Sure they are trash on fresh patterns but don’t need them then

[@LuisNapoles]

Yea that makes sense!

[@michaelfinley9988]

Pin up looks way better.

[@LuisNapoles]

WAY better? Or just kinda better?

[@marvinh1985]

Lol, that's a real pro bowler comment "The lane s*cks" or "All because of the lane" or "The oil pattern is to dry" or "The oil pattern is to wet".... blablabla... what then? Just Adapt!

[@jesse75]

Name of the game. I throw a slidder on dry lanes and a 3 quarter or full roller on lanes depending the oil pattern.

[@KwuNorthstar]

Sounds like some broken pins in that rack

[@LuisNapoles]

Oh yea maybe!

[@AViewingViewer]

“Supports me” is very bad choice of words/justification. Should be “supports the channel/us”

[@LuisNapoles]

The channel is me there is no us LOL