Macedonia: Greek or Slavic? How Greece got a country to change its name 🇬🇷 🇲🇰

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What is the controversy between Greece and North Macedonia? Why do they both claim Alexander the Great as part of their culture, and deny the patrimony of Ancient Macedonia to one another? This video is intended to explain to my audience NOT from the Balkans why this feud persists, and why so many crazy comments appeared on the Ancient Macedonian language video (this one: • Was Macedonian a Greek... ).
NOTA BENE: If you’re new to this topic, I recommend reseaching more on your own, since my presentation here is rather superficial. In this video I attempted to show three points of view: the Greek perspective, the North Macedonian perspective, and the perspective of an outsider - outsiders like me see these controversies as pretty silly, and I pointed to my own supercilious reaction in this video, to make a point that the Macedonia naming dispute is very important to a lot of people. I encourage you to look into the facts and the deeds around the dispute before coming to your own conclusion.
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Intro and outro music: Overture of Die Zauberflöte (The Magic Flute) by Mozart

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

To try everything Brilliant has to offer - free - for a full 30 days, visit brilliant.org/polyMATHY . The first 200 to sign up will get 20% off Brilliant’s annual premium subscription. If you’re new to this topic, I recommend reseaching more on your own, since my presentation here is rather superficial. In this video I attempted to show three points of view: the Greek perspective, the North Macedonian perspective, and the perspective of an outsider - outsiders like me see who these controversies as pretty silly, and I pointed to my own supercilious reaction in this video, to make a point that the Macedonia naming dispute is very important to a lot of people. I encourage you to look into the facts and the deeds around the dispute before coming to your own conclusion. Thanks to everyone who has provided such interesting, civil, and thoughtful comments below. I really appreciate the conversations. 🦂 Support my work on Patreon: www.patreon.com/LukeRanieri 📚 Luke Ranieri Audiobooks: luke-ranieri.myshopify.com 🤠 Take my course LATIN UNCOVERED on StoryLearning, including my original Latin adventure novella "Vir Petasātus" learn.storylearning.com/lu-promo?affiliate_id=3932873 🦂 Sign up for my Latin Pronunciation & Conversation series on Patreon: www.patreon.com/posts/54058196

[@modmaker7617]

My conclusion is; ●Alexander the Great and his Empire are Greek. ●The modern Slavic North-Macedonians have no connection to Alexander the Great and his Empire and the ONLY claim to that name is geographic.

[@myhandlehasbeenmishandled]

There is only one problem with the arguments made by all sides. Just like some commenters here, they confuse cultural and genetic heritage, or perhaps they don't understand it. Genetic studies have shown that most people in Balkans have very little outside genetic make up. Culturally speaking people of North Macedonia might be Slavic but genetically they are a lot closer to Greeks than they are to Russians or Czech. Same goes for most of the people in former Yugoslavia. We are not that different from our ancestors. It's the culture that was brought by invading people and it became a primary culture.

[@giorikass1]

@@myhandlehasbeenmishandled im greek from PONTOS if you now the place in today Turkey, im not of makedonian origin but all im saying is GREAT ALEXANDER king of greece wasnt slav , and now i have to say CLEOPATRA wasnt black!!!!!! ISNT IT FUNNY THAT ALWAYS THE GREEKS HAVE TO DEFEND THERE HISTORY!!!!!! Are we the aggressors????? Did we say that Ivan the Terrible was greek??? No, we always defend, not only our, but the history of mankind!!!!!!!

[@MacedonianBro]

OUR ADJECTIVE IS MACEDONIAN !!!! So untrue what are you saying that we, the Macedonians are considering the ancient Macedonian as slavic language. Total bullshit from your side . And you build your tesis on top of that opinion. So untrue . Majority of Macedonians are thinking that ancient Macedonian language was separate from greek in that time still unknown origin and by the time,the Macedonian autocracy/nobility adopt the greek language as linga franca. The old ancient Macedonian language was forgotten. Every modern nation has ethnogenesis of their people and nation as we do the Modern Macedonians . Be biuld the connection with the Ancient Macedonians then mixing with the Slavs but we kept the Macedonian memories and identity. When you are mentioning facts why not are you not mentioning the quantity of population in North Greece before and after Ww1 . We were majority in North Greece and then banished from North Greece and we are talking about large numbers of ethnic Macedonians towards Yugoslavia and Bulgaria. Then with people exchange between Greece-Turkey you got moving of Pontic Greeks from Turkey to North Greece in period from 1915 to 1922 . Not to mention the Metaxsas era and presurre towards Macedonians. My family is with origin from Kavala and Kastoria . My mothers family owned the Amouliani island near Atos mountain till the end of 1917 when Greek church seized the territory and moved Pontic Greeks . You got so nonsense said in this video sorry . Btw Macedonia change the name by force from our Government.The people dont agree . We had referendum. Didnt pass Voter turnout was around 37%, less than the 50% threshold required to validate the results . The nation didnt aprove the name change even the Macedonian president didn't officially agree of the name change . Other thing . The Macedonian Nationalist Movement aka VMRO . Ataturk was part from that movement as support . For nothing was the Marseille attack/killing of French foreign Minister and Serbian King also and Bulgarian Prime Minister?! For nothing was the Miss Stone hostage scandal ?! For nothing was the attack of Solun/Thessaloniki or the Boatmen terror attacks from Veles ?! For nothing was the forming of communist idea in Albania transfered by the Macedonian fugitives in Albania?! The right man of Enver Hodxza was ethnic Macedonian by the name Koçi Xoxe?! For nothing was the leader of Soviets who was ethnic Macedonian Georgy Malenkov ?! MACEDONIANS ARE HERE AND ALIVE !!! If the Greeks and Bulgarians denying something that means that something is existing. Then why is that all noise ?! If everything is quiet then must we don't exist by the logic .The Macedonians were native and majority in North Greece,then why the efforts for assimilation and expulsion and replacement with Pontic Greeks and change of the names of places . Till 1989 there was no area called Macedonia. It was officially North Greece . When they felt the independent Macedonia they were scared and tried to seize the monopol over the brand name Macedonia. Isnt that stink from the bottom ? For fuck sake the Macedonian Church is called Ohrid Archepiscopy and only inheritance of Justinian's Church ?! Recognition from Vatican and Ortodox Church . Fuckin Pope and Vartolomej was in Macedonia. And you smarty pants ranting in this video we are ranting bullshit?! Tell the fact also that Greece didnt had Aegean Macedonia till 1918 until West helped with Bucurest Agreement. Same shit now with the EU and bullying my people. You know what fuck you . Nobody needs to tell me who im . I have the human right .

[@serpent8516]

what if phillip and alexander spoke non-Indoeuropean language?(like Etruscan or Basque?) Luke, tell about those non-Indo-European languages.

[@Lara__]

I travelled to Skopje and I found it ridiculous that they were busy constructing ancient ruins and statues, obviously making up their history as they go along. That is rather inflammatory and I can understand why Greeks are upset.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Thank you for your Honorable input! 👍🏻

[@janeza382]

Yes Greeks are upset because in Balkan wars 1913 taken Macedonian land Macedonians was assimilated there over the years whit Greek nationalistic propaganda. Ancient ruins he says....

[@Lara__]

@@janeza382 fake news, just like everything else about fyrom

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@janeza382 Greeks are Happy! They restored their Macedonian Lands that were theres since Antiquity! 👍🏻 That is BS, there were some Bulgarian invaders there, and after the wars there was a population exchange between Greeks from the Coast of Bulgaria with Bulgarian invaders. Thats all. Your Propaganda doesn’t work here goran, sorry! 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@janeza382]

@@SpartanLeonidas1821 Macedonia is land Greece is ancient Roman myth.

[@sgtK0420]

My country South Korea did not establish diplomatic relations with Macedonia up until 2019 after they solved their naming dispute with Greece. It was because our principles of diplomacy always put great emphasis on respecting the countries that fought for us in Korean War, which was in this case Greece. This was indeed a very interesting situation. I wonder if there are any other countries that actually went as far as to not recognize Macedonia like we did.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

North Macedonia you mean my friend. Macedonia is a Region in Greece as you may know. Thank you to the honorable Koreans that kept that stance until we resolved the issue, we appreciate it! 👍🏻

[@gregoiremp]

As a Greek, we thank you South Korean people for respecting us. Plz @1993Kwon edit your comment, South Korea established diplomatic relations with NORTH Macedonia in 2019.

[@aleksandarchorbeski7841]

excuse me what's that country "South Korea"

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@aleksandarchorbeski7841 South Korea is a real country. Unlike you, you are just a self-hating bulgarian with an expiration date! Tik tok slobodan…😃

[@mydogsbutler]

Why you are calling it "macedonia" when the country is called NORTH Macedonia and Macedonia is in Greece?

[@eltarlantezos]

It was not just a name dispute. In their curriculum, especially during Gruevski's administration, referred to Greek lands as "occupied". Greece didn't fight just a historical appropriation, but a heavily irredentism mindset that was running rampant.

[@mydogsbutler]

Skopians get away with the lying and irredentism because their foreign apologists unethically keep blaming Greeks to hide their mistake of ridiculously recognizing these obvious frauds as "Macedonians". Unfortunately, many Greeks have stuck their head in the ground on this rampant racism towards ethnic Greeks. The primary issue isn't Skopje. The real problem is the racist antigreek trolls that supported them. They all know they aren't "Macedonians" any more than they are "Athenians:" but used them as a proxy to harass us. Greeks and the Greek government need to call out these Greek-hating liars.

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

What a big problem you had my dear ? We didnt know that ! When Helenic Republic was made in 1821, you didnt have dreams that there is ancient dusted time of Greek Macedonian ! While Republik Macedonia was established freely in 1945 ! You were Mavro Guptian , different than Macedonian didn't care for Macedonia whose is ! You know , today we are calling it Haplogroup . Your haplogroup called " Greek" , can't be found in the North , to prove that Macedonians are Greeks in our part . Ha ha ha Suddenly Pella was found in 1978 , and you gave name to it Greek Guptian Pella Archeological Site ! How can you Mavro Greek Guptians be frustrated for different white Macedonian in the North that took their place called Vardarska Makedonia . It was anyway oficialy Makedonia my dear since 168 BC up to Otoman time , but divided in 1912 . Nobody can prove that Helenic Republic was divided ! Nobody can change that "Republic Macedonia" my dear ! Even if The Allmighty God could come down on Earth !

[@eltarlantezos]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 Oh, you did change your name! Actually you have been humiliated as the first one having to change its name in the 21th century. And the Egypt you try to downgrade is one of the greatest civilizations ever. It's insulting to put your country side by side with Egypt.

[@mydogsbutler]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 "The whole story about Ancient Macedonia sounds undoubtedly very nice. However, there is a great problem, a huge hole of about 2,000 years during which we have neither oral nor written tradition, nor a single scientific argument” - former Prime Minister Ljubco Georgievski, Focus News, 31 March 2008

[@mydogsbutler]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 "We are Slavs. There's no connection between us and Alexander the Great. " - Kiro Gligorov, President of FYROM

[@alphaomega9236]

All the universities of the world know that Macedonia was a Greek kingdom. Alexander and Phillip are Greek Names. It is ridiculous anything else

[@niknik1604]

You right ❤️🇬🇷🇨🇾❤️

[@aaronmarks9366]

I agree, although keep in mind that logically, someone having a name coming from a certain language doesn't necessarily mean that person is from the culture of that language. Look how many Alexanders and Philips there are in the English-speaking world, none of whom are Greek.

[@janeza382]

Macedonia was one of the kingdoms of the ancient world Greece become kingdom in 1821 because kingdom of Greece did not existed in the ancient Go back to you Roman city state Athens.

[@niknik1604]

@@janeza382 Alexander the great United the greek City/States in one State/coutry . Even before Alexander the great all the greek Citys knew that they were all greeks. Same Heritage, same Languege , same Religion , same Moral and customs . There was always Greece.

[@niknik1604]

@@supermavro6072 All universe know that turkish people today are islamized greeks , areminas , asyrians and kurds, albaninas , arabs etc . Original turks from Asia: Uzbekistan Mongolian are very very very few . You dont even Look like Them .

[@giorikass1]

if cleopatra was black , alexander was slav.......

[@vytah]

And since they were related, they were both black slavs. Case closed.

[@olbiomoiros]

Obama is Albanian

[@hisenhasani2979]

Aleksandri ishte ilir I cili luftoj kunder grekeve dhe pushtoj greqine dhe keshtu me radhe shkoi deri ne indi Duke pushtuar toka

[@giorikass1]

@@hisenhasani2979 english OR GREEK please !!!!! im not albanian !!!! like ALEXANDER im greek !!! Maybe you are looking for this man another greek king of Illyria, maKedonia ,epirus he almost took Rome

[@stefanodadamo6809]

​@@hisenhasani2979no.

[@savvasavraam8670]

The name North Macedonia didn’t satisfy the Greeks. The Greek population didn’t agree to the Prespa agreement. There was a referendum and Greeks voted against but the “president” at the time did not even care and went and signed the agreement for North Macedonia. The Greeks would agree only to a name that doesn’t have the word “Macedonia” in it.

[@hedylus]

Yes, you're right.

[@mehegama]

Are you on drugs? When was there a referendum on the prespa agreement in Greece?

[@AndrejNikolov-xw2gi]

Macedonian here 🇲🇰, even we didn't agree to the name. The president just agreed to it. Basically it was forcefully changed but we didn't agree to it and still call our country Macedonia

[@hedylus]

My grandfather was born in Skopia when the city was almost entirely Greek. He said that it was the Russians and the Austrians which gave the entire city the ultimatum of get out or they would be forcibly removed. This was to end the Bulgarian civil war and to give the dissidents somewhere to go rather than be massacred by the Bulgarian nationalists. It shouldn't have been associated with Makedonia at all, since Bulgarians are not Makedonians and still in principle Bulgarians. Adding Serbs and Albanians into the mix doesn’t make them Makedonian either.

[@mehegama]

@@AndrejNikolov-xw2gi you can call it whatever you like, but it has zero legitimacy. You country is officially and constitutionally named North Macedonia. End of story

[@Fyrapan90]

Something else that people forget is that the ancient Macedonians also participated in the ancient Olympic games and at that time only people who where considered Greek could participate in those games which is even one more proof that Alexander and Philip was Greek.

[@janeza382]

Modern Greeks are not Hellenic they are Roman Christians. Hellenism in ancient ment same as democracy today it was ideology that Romans took for imperialistic irredentist pourposes.

[@Fyrapan90]

@janeza382 Modern greeks are hellenic lol what are you on about!

[@skylinelover9276]

​@@janeza382lmao majority of Greeks are J2 DNA Haplo group, Romans are R1B DNA paternal.

[@supermavro6072]

@@janeza382 they are rums of eastern turkeye

[@supermavro6072]

@@skylinelover9276 they are rums of anatolia

[@cozyeagle9734]

I am from Italia 🇮🇹 High educated. In Italy we study ancient Greek and Latin at liceo classico (one type of high school). Makedonia is Greece 🇬🇷 Alessandro Magno Il Macedone Honor and glory to Greece 🇬🇷 Una faccia una razza!　🇬🇷❤🇮🇹

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Bravo! 🇬🇷❤️🇮🇹 ….👍🏻

[@georgefarmakis9238]

Greetings to our beloved Italia

[@petritdemiri2066]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@petritdemiri2066 🤡🤡🤡🤡

[@hedylus]

The Roman aristocracy were Greek speakers and they employed the Trojan-killing Latin Greeks to defend them, by forming them into armies of mercenaries trained and organised to kill for the Senate of Rome, i.e. the aristocracy. Most legions were not only full of war-like Latin Greek speakers, but also Aegean Greek speakers who often took on Latin Greek names when joining a Legion. Those who could speak both Latin Greek and Aegean Greek could quickly rise up in the ranks to Centurion, but that's as far as they could go without applying and getting Roman Citizenship at the level of Praetorian.

[@faryafaraji]

Oh thanks for the shoutout mate! And loved that description of the Balkans. I used to wonder why I’m so drawn to them, and then I put two and two together: I’m originally from the Middle-East, of course I feel at home in deranged, unstable nationalistic political cesspools with some of the most beautiful cultures and history on the planet 😂

[@bogdanstamenic2836]

Oh, I guess that's why I think the middle east is so neat😂 it's a cesspool of ethnic tensions like the Balkans😂

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks for watching, my friend! Haha I’m glad you enjoy the richness there as much as I do.

[@giorikass1]

Middle-East???!!!!!! national????? isnt your thing there religion ??? kill the infidels or free the holly lands??? ??

[@BBarNavi]

oh hey it's the FIRST reasonable comment and of course it's by the most based historical music youtuber

[@siyacer]

good music

[@theamericancristero7390]

I've found that wading into Balkan & Eastern European ethnic disputes is to be avoided like the plague, but it's your funeral Luke.

[@Nikelaos_Khristianos]

Don’t throw all of Eastern Europe in with the shenanigans of North Macedon. 😤😤

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Well, like I said in the video, the dispute was brought right upon me in the previous video, so I'm fine with commenting on the commentary.

[@cuber5003]

​@@Nikelaos_Khristianosit's not just north Macedonia, Yugoslavia is out of control with disputes like this

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

​@@polyMATHY_Luke No, Luke, you don't understand. Hummmm..... the mind wash propaganda in the former communist federation republics is sooooooooo strong..... that ..... Serbs are SURE Jesus is a Greek who spoke fluent Serbian and that Hercules was a Serb, because he had four Cyrillic "s" on his skirt (Byzantine 4 "s" on the cross, from their coat of arms), and that they founded Sorbonne (Serbonne), and of course Wien and Venice (Wendi = Serb tribe). During the 90s and craze of war mongers, psychotic killers who tried to cover their lunatic atrocities, we, the normal people just thought they've gone berserk, or just let their undereducated clinical lunacy surface up, but.... nowadays.... after 3 decades of brainwash (all that I mentioned is officially taught, in schools, totally psychotic), I'm actually worried they completely lost their minds

[@borisnegrarosa9113]

For some reason Serbs tend to hate Portugal, my country of origin. I wish someone could explain that.

[@nikolaoskonstantinidis3505]

As a guy from Macedonia (Greece), I don't get why you think Greece's reaction is an overreaction. It's not just a name dispute, it's appropriation of history. We had reached a point where people from other countries thought that Alexander of Macedonia was from the country of North Macedonia and not the Greek region of Macedonia. If anything, Balkan countries rely a lot on tourism. Imagine a region like norther Greece, if they lost that little tourism they had due to history. Also, I used to live abroad and it used to piss me off when they asked me which region I was from and I said Macedonia, and they were like "Oh, so you're not Greek?".

[@miroslavfilipov6589]

As a guy from Macedonia (Bulgaria) I think you wen overboard with a LOT of things related to Thrace and Macedonia, despite me agreeing with you about the ancient origin of Alexander's lands and people.

[@gxts7414]

The Greek region of Macedonia is Macedonia, it always was and will be, the fact that your government stole it in 1913 doesnt change that. You are not greek and are not related to helens, you are a mixbreed of turkish slav and albanian and u claim ancient greek history? Pirin is ours not yours, your government and people have oppressed Macedonians for more than 100 years in their own land so far.

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

It was before ! In the time of Yugoslavian gathered different nations ! You as a new country Helas didn't have in your history that 15 centuries huge percentage of Macedonian population were Slav enlightened . Not because some percentage Slavs "came" but macedonians were cristianised and by time were enlightened with new modern Slavian culture . You have been frustrated about Yugoslavian nations superiority ! It is big shame to hide and destroy data of Slavianisation in Macedonia but you are brothers with Serbia ! You are not to be blamed having no history records that real macedonian were Slav Enlightened legally in Roman Time Mcedonia Provonce with Cirilo& Methodius Enlighteners from Salonica not in Alexander's time . And you are not to be blamed for Bulgarian paralelly stretched Empire by grabbing Macedonia in Roman time . Macedonians were in double Imperial pressure , Roman and Bulgarian ! It is out of logic Macedonian old etnicity to have been wanished , and all Slavs came in empty space famous Makedonia Province . Bulgar came to rule with exosted Macedonian population without custady . Serbia came too pretending the continuation of Byzantium ! You were happy too , hiding the reality that there is Republic Makedonija up above your Region Macedonia in Helas country due to Cold War tensions ! That "Cold War" is finished matter , but you are continuing to have very owful politic due to your past situation with the Hunta ! Macedonia as a Republic got it's independence now stepping out of federation Yugoslavia as real country Makedonia independant , but you still don't understand what was abbreviation FYROM for ! It was warning that Macedonian Republic cannot be whipped out because you like it ! Nonsences from the Metaksas time are still present in your rethorics . You don't respect the fact that nobody is saying , Alexander the Macedonian was Slav ! Take it easy and look forward the fact that Macedonians will remain Macedonian if they are for 15 century Slav Macedonian recognised in EU because there isn't Macedonian Nation in Helas ! Action of negotiation are taken with EU , and by 2028 Makedonian Republic will be EU member ! Like it or not ! You as the Helasian be what you you are ! The big confusion is happening in your history where your country is not officialy registered as country Greece but it is Helenic Republic ! It is your pet name Greeks ( Graeci or Gorki on Slavic )given out of Alexander the Macedonian Era ! He was Macedonian not Greek because he have never heard about expression "Greeks" at his time especially the word Greece using by you with two "e" as a funny joke . Everybody knows that Greece is English expresion for fun how could Alexander have known that joke name ? He was Macedonian Helenist practicing Helenistic culture which was spread widely from Mesopotamia to Danube in Europe ! If you are going to become clever and moderate you will gain benefit of living together as EU members both countries because all people in the World are understanding what is Region and what is it when a nation is registered separately because the times of colonial past have broth that destiny ! Helas don't have Macedonian Nation in its constitution so , nobody is stealing "Greek Macedonia" now when we are all becoming European , and borders will be free soon ! Do you know what ? You cannot attack us , we are Macedonian nation , NATO member !

[@miroslavfilipov6589]

@@voskreglavincevska7080 are you a bot or a real person? I'm not trying to be offencive or anything, and I apologise if you are real. I just find it odd that I can sware I've seen this very same word salad posted elsewhere...

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

@@miroslavfilipov6589 There is a time , you will change your rethorics . Yes Aexander the Macedonian was Macedonian Helenist . Not Slav !

[@TheDimHellas]

First and foremost, I'd like to commend this channel for its excellent content and for shedding light on important issues. As a Greek, however, I feel compelled to address some nuances: 1. It's imperative to note that the primary concern for many of us isn't just the secession of territories. What deeply concerns us is the portrayal and potential usurpation of a minority in Northern Greece, particularly in the Macedonia region. There's a considerable number of Slavic speakers here, but it's a misconception to label them all as Slavs; many are in fact Arvanites and Vlachs. The push by Skopje's government to stake a claim on this demographic is unsettling, to say the least. 2. Another pressing issue is the recent rise of a short-term ethnogenesis narrative. While we'd respect such developments elsewhere, it's disheartening to see it overshadow an undeniable historical reality: that the Macedonians, both ancient and present, are inherently Greek. It's misleading to base the Macedonian identity on the limited historical context of the pseudo-Macedonian Ilinden revolution, especially when even the partisan leaders of that revolution used the term 'Macedonia' geographically, distinguishing its inhabitants by their real ethnicities: Greeks, Turks, Bulgarians, Vlachs, and Arvanites. 3. Lastly, it's worth noting that the so-called patriotism/nationalism from Skopje seems to be strictly constitutional. True nationalism arises from genuine historical and cultural foundations, not by borrowing or misrepresenting the heritage of others. I hope this adds some perspective. Once again, great job on the content; it's always vital to keep the dialogue open.

[@user-ox8pg5lh5n]

Arvanites are Albanians and not Greeks.

[@giannisv.4472]

Calling ancient's macedonian's dialect not greek is like calling any other greek dialect not greek. If you hear the pontic dialect or the cretan dialect you will think they are different languages because you will be comparing them to another version of a greek dialect (modern greek) that has become more prominent and the majority of people speak it. However, if you trace them back to it's common "ancestor" language you will find they have the same roots and are in fact greek. Saying ancient macedonians spoke a version of dorian language (ionian, doric, aeolic etc) is like saying they spoke a version of greek. Also, language is a living organism and can evolve differently in different regions occupied by the same tribes, especially in the past when they did not have any means of fast remote communications like the internet. In that way proto-greek evolved differently in athens where arts and literature thrived (and thus creating, the modified version of ionian greek, the "attic greek", which became prominent in ancient hellenic world and eventually formed the basis of "Koine greek" which was spread to the whole known world after) and differently in the kingdom of Macedon which fell behind in some points (still a kingdom although most Greece had shifted to city states after the greek dark ages, still an argicultular society mostly). To elaborate my last point, ancient Athens evolved the greek language in the way it did, because the basis of Athens' society was trading, arts, literature, democracy and attic greek fitted that athenian foundation perfectly, whereas Macedon shaped their version of the greek language based on a more ruralized society which focused agriculture and defending against other tribes from the north for most of it's early history (this explains the lesser frequency of written texts found in the early stages of the kingdom of Macedon). This is why saying that there was a possibility ancient macedonians did not speak greek and probably only spoke a version of an indo-european language is wrong. Of course nobody will argue that ancient macedonians' native language was the attic greek dialect as you mentioned because it clearly was not (however you treated attic greek as equivalent with the whole greek language), since as it's name suggests it was firstly spoken by the residents of the Attica region, which includes Athens, and not in Macedonia. However, it must be made clear that the spectrum of greek language is huge and includes many forms of it and dialects, such us mycenaean greek, dorian, "attic greek", "koine greek", pontic greek, cappadocean greek and many more examples including the language ancient macedonians spoke. Modern greek language traces it's roots back to all these different dialects. In conclusion, nothing in history suggests that ancient macedonians spoke anything else than a version of a greek dialect (which obviously could and was infuenced by the languages of other tribes in the near regions such as Illyrians or Paeonians) and even mentioning the possibility that they did not is absurd. This (linguistics field) added with the traditions, self-identification of the Macedonians and the legacy that they left behind makes them 100% Greek and anyone who is doubting that is sadly influenced by false propaganda or serves devious purposes. For that reason, you see, sir Polymath, under every post against hellenic history you see defenders greek history, often times with poorly expressed (comedic also) opinions, but defenders nontheless. Not because, modern Greece as a state will gain anything if little Yuri thinks that Alexander the Great was a slavic person, but because this is the truth and by forgetting our history as humankind or even worse distorting it only bad things will the future hold. Sorry for the long incoherent text it's 6 am and hard to express everything in a language that is not my own.

[@janeza382]

Dude ony Greeks have dialects and others have languages. So in the ancient there was many spoken languages written on Ancient alphabet and rewritten by Romans.

[@giannisv.4472]

​@janeza382 do you mean other languages don't have dialects? what about the Irish language which is a dialect of the Anglo-language which evolved into modern English? Or the southern and northern Italian dialects or the Swiss German and low lands German? I don't understand you. Dialects are not solely a Greek thing and a quick internet search will convince you

[@michele3900]

@@janeza382 We have the historical record that tells us Ancient Macedonian is either a greek dialect or a very closely related hellenic language. It 100% wasn't proto slavic or anything of the sort.

[@mydogsbutler]

@@janeza382 "Dude ony Greeks have dialects and others have languages. " Try putting an American hill billy with a deep southern drawl in the same room with a Brit with an Eastender cockney accent.

[@cuddlestsq2730]

@@giannisv.4472 Irish is Celtic, not a dialect of English or closely related to it. You might be thinking of Hiberno-English, which is the English natively spoken on the island of Ireland.

[@costasmegas]

There is also an important point about this disagreement which is often neglected - Exports and Tourism. The province of Macedonia in Greece is heavily invested in many products and wines, and derives a significant portion of its revenue from tourism. That includes historical tourism. The claim that "this is the real Macedonia" and that Alexander the Great "was from here" thus also had economic ramifications. Imagine if the state of Michigan changed its name to Canada and started exporting bottles of "Canadian Maple Syrup" with pictures of Justin Trudeau on them. I'm willing to bet many Canadians would be upset. Add to that the irredentist aspect of the conflict, which might have otherwise faded, if FYROM didnt put SO MUCH effort into basing their entire national identity on a man that is so clearly culturally affiliated with Greece, then Hellenes would not have made such a big deal about it. They even made an "Alexander the Great Airport"! There just absolutely needed to be a way to separate Macedeonia proper from Slavo-Macedonia (a name many Greeks would have vastly to the current "North Macedonia" solution, which doesn't do much, given everyone just drops the "North" bit. Least we got that ruddy flag changed. =)))) Love to my Balkano-slavic brothers regardless.

[@jessehawkins4823]

Huh, a point I had not considered. Thanks.

[@StergiosMekras]

Heh, good point but this is closer to Egypt suddenly calling itself Africa.

[@mistaPL]

I am not sure Trudeau on a wine bottle wout make for a big sales hit😂 You made me consider alternative names for North Macedonia... Macedoslavia, maybe... Slavcedonia...🤔

[@Moses_VII]

excellent comment

[@costasmegas]

@@mistaPL I don’t think so either 😂😂. Let’s say Ryan Reynolds!

[@xantiphos]

Chilean of Greek ancestry here. In my country and in most Latin American countries, it's taught that Alexander the Great and Macedonia were Greek and integral part of Hellenism, and that the other country is a land usurpers that were given their name by Tito after having the original name of Vardarska.

[@MultiCanEman]

And you are gravely wrong about this deductions.

[@xantiphos]

@@MultiCanEman oh yeah? Give a serious argument then. I'll wait

[@MultiCanEman]

@@xantiphos You need to prove he is Geek. Whole world knows he is Macedonian:)

[@xantiphos]

@@MultiCanEman I asked you to argument and you tell me to justify myself, when it should be the other way around. Anyway, let me see: -Macedonians origin was considered the same as the Greeks, even when it comes to mythical origins. The name Macedonians comes from Greek μακρός, to refer to tall people, because since the Antiquity Macedonians were considered to be tall in relation to other Greeks. -Macedonians spoke an Hellenic dialect from the Doric family, just as the Spartans. -They worshipped the same gods as the rest of Greece. The Argead dynasty, from which Philip II and Alexander descended, claimed to be descendants of Heracles, a Greek. -All the inscriptions of Ancient Macedonia are in, surprise surprise, Greek language. -The Macedonians were allowed to participate in the Olympic games, the most sacred Panhellenic event. -Macedonians were conquered by Persia, but even then they provided useful information to the other Greek city states during the invasion of Greece by Xerxes. Do you want me to continue? Or are you going to tell me that fallacious argument that Greece didn't exist during Antiquity?

[@MultiCanEman]

@@xantiphos Not at all. This is today modern Green phantasy. For you guys even Baklava is Greek rather than Turkish. You know only one thing very well, and thats to make lots of noise and expect credibility. For ancient Greeks Macedonians were never Greek. Its only after the victories of Alexander that you started to embrace him. Alexander is a Macedonian legend who conquered Greece along with Asia Minor, Persia and India. Alexander always seperated Macedonians and Greeks in his army. They never considered themselves as Greeks.

[@Sofaditis73]

Aristotles (Alexander's Tutor) was also from Macedonia. The Slavs never questioned his Greekness. You also failed to mention that Alexander's grandfather participated in the Olympic Games which was ONLY for Greeks. And for history's shake, Phillip had erased from the ground Aristotle's hometown "Stageira". Greeks were fighting Greeks from the beggining of time. Even Today if an Athenian football team fan wants to irritate a fan of a nothern Greece's football team, he would call him "Bugarian" or "Turk" or "Albanian". Does this prove his not Greek?

[@alfaomega7186]

Πες τα χρυσόστομε!!!

[@jaskitstepkit7153]

No one believes Tito's lies expect them. Everyone calls the "Macedonian " nation as a Slavic one. Thankfully, the communists did not won.

[@yov_g7552]

bro ive never heard any of that Bugarian or Turk or Albanian, here in canada were brothers, cause were all Macedonian.

[@trinity6009]

well said

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@yov_g7552You are not Macedonian, you are Bulgarian. Real Macedonians are Greeks ONLY, as they have always been! 👍🏻 But Southern Greeks call the Northern Greek Macedonians as "Bulgarians" (your People) to make FUN OF THEM. It is an insult. No offense to you, Im just trying to relay the information..🤷🏻‍♂️

[@cazwalt9013]

Non Greek here. It doesn't matter if Athenians saw Macedonians as less Greeks or anything like that since these rivalries always existed between Greeks. Plus these views of Macedonia can be political too. So Greeks can take pride of all Greeks Macedonians Athenians Thebans Spartans etc... Since they all played a part in building the history of this great nation. Macedonia is actually REALLY important to Greeks, since they were the ones who started the hellenic period, where hellenic culture reached all the way to India and didn't stay where it was. After Alexander the great the whole region was being ruled by Greeks from Egypt to India. People where talking their language taking their customers etc... BTW Greece should actually pressure their neighbour to the north to change their name again maybe to skopja or something else. Skopjans claim Alexander Black's claim cleopatra Who's next?

[@ginnorossi]

I'm next, I claim to be the heir of Augustus, give me the empire

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Thank you for your Honorable reply! You are on the CORRECT side of History! Part of this whole problem is that people try to chalk this up to Greece being "unreasonable" & that the whole thing is just "silly" when there are actual future dangers in all of this for the Hellenic Republic. This "problem" may be used by other Powers to try to destabilize Greece, so it doesn’t matter if Skopia is weak or not. I would say that Greece has taken the responsible approach by trying to Nip this at the Bud while attempting to stay true to the Historical Reality! 👍🏻

[@cazwalt9013]

@@SpartanLeonidas1821 people who don't have a great history wouldn't understand. Ofc an American would find it silly. After all what do they know about history? And do they have any?

[@mariosathens1]

there are also many Albanians who claim the entire Greek History (Greek gods, Greek language, Mythical heroes etc) and even the Greek war of indepednce since the call all the Greek heroes as "Albanian origins" 😁

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@cazwalt9013 That is very true! I thought Luke would take a different approach, but it was the irresponsible one I would say. It’s his choice of course. But this is my opinion. Again, thank you for your Honorable input! 🙏🏻

[@Alex-mn1fb]

Long answer, this video. Short answer, its definitely Greek. There, solved it for ya 😁 And btw, I am Slavic, and I absolutely do not condone the appropriation of Greek history by North Macedonia or Albania. Alexander and Philipp were NOT Illyrian, the heartlands of Ancient Macedonia are still in Greece in the northern area still called Macedonia, but the name has been applied to a wider geographical area for centuries, thanks in part to the conquests of Macedonian Kings, and the later Roman and Byzantine empires, who ruled that area as a PROVINCE of Macedonia, which was geographically a much much bigger area. (Same applies for Achaia, province to the south, which was named for the Achean League but came to encompass the entire south of Greece under the Romans) The whole issue is literally wishful thinking of 21 century nationalists in these countries who have irrational need to portray their nation as being older, more influential and powerful then they were, which is an endemic problem in every Balkan nation to this day. Its one of those, after all the unfortunate wars and ethnic conflict, we need to prove (to ourselves, mainly) that we are better then our neighbours. And its blatantly false from a historical sense.

[@demetriusstiakkogiannakes1326]

Thanks man. Now to form a distinct Achaean identity!

[@michele3900]

I agree, it's on the same level of cultural appropriation of a Black Cleopatra, it is shameful.

[@Alex-mn1fb]

@@michele3900 Absolutely! I agree wholeheartedly. I mean, I am from the general area where almost all of Cleopatras direct ancestors came from, and I would never dream to appropriate and say that she was anything but Graeco-Egyptian. Btw, that being said, there are Slavic North Macedonian and Albanian nationalist who DO try to appropriate Cleopatra, its not just and Afrocentrist thing (tho its much less known or visible) where they claim all Ancient Macedonians ( Alexander, Phillip, his successors like Ptolemy and Seleucus) were Illyrian. Even the North Macedonian Wikipedia page states that Cleo was a MACEDONIAN Queen (but in modern, North Macedonian sense). So sad how people need to write false history to make themselves seem more important and better (in their minds).

[@user-tb7tm6gr5c]

You said you are Slavic, we have many Slavic people like you who are part of the wrong side of history

[@Alex-mn1fb]

@@user-tb7tm6gr5c Uhm, I would say its the other way around. Besides, you cant be the judge of that cuz you are clearly biased 😁

[@angelosdaresis1477]

ALEXANDER’s speech before the battle of Issus: "...We Macedonians are to fight Medes and Persians, nations long steeped in luxury, while we have long been hardened by warlike toils and dangers; and above it will be a fight among free men and slaves. And so far as GREEK will meet GREEK, WE shall not be fighting for like causes; those mercenaries with Dareius will risk their lives for pay, and poor pay too; WE on the contrary shall fight for GREECE and our hearts will be in it". Arrian, "Anabasis of Alexander" Book II, Ch.7, par.4,5 Cambridge, Massachussets, Harvard University Press

[@ManveruT]

The fact that Slavs say that Alexander the Great was a Slav when, at the time, there weren't any Slavs in the area, not to mention that they didn't even exist as an ethnicity at all, is a complete farce!!! It's like Rey calling herself a Skywalker!!! LOL. On a more serious note, yes, indeed Greece was divided at the time into various kingdoms each with their own dialects, but there was always a kind of ethnic unity behind all those anatgonistic tendencies, and that unity appeared on multiple occasions, a good example is the unification of Greeks agains the Persians.

[@EasyGameEh]

it's funny when slavs fight other slavs over who's real greek when in fact none of them is

[@apollonmagg4603]

I am Greek and I need to say a big Thanks to you because you have managed to explain in a very clever and kind way what we are shouting all these years.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I’m glad you liked the video, sir.

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

Meh. It's ok, you should just take it as a compliment. As ......African countries keeping their names as ..... "New this and that" even tho they "expelled the colonizer Huwite" long time ago. Not that you are White and Slavs are Africans

[@fidemporas]

@@g.h.milanboseblut5616 You forgot to take your pills again.

[@Anonymous-mh1vs]

​@@g.h.milanboseblut5616It's funny that you named African countries with the "New this or that", because Africa has no country which is called "New something". Not sure about cities tho. But it's true anyway that a lot of them have names which were given by Europeans and so not original, like South Africa or Central African Republic. But some of these names are original or some others at least were given by Europeans by taking a local word used to indicate something and extending it to the whole territory.

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

@@Anonymous-mh1vs Oh yeah, I mixed up New Guinea with Equatorial one. Are you sure there wasn't some with changed name, like Noua or Neue? Anyhooz they chased us out and now ask for us to get back. That's OK. That happens in whole Europe. Many people, especially Slavs, take our German names and turn it into something Przđżśćslv and claim its forever been like that. Or some Roman name, when it was Roman empire - for example Ulpiana and they rename it to Lipljan and say "Noooo.... it was forever Lipljan, from the word lipa, a birch tree"

[@AthanasiosJapan]

We know for sure that Alexander liked Iliad and he was also reading other books in Greek. What it really matters is that Alexander had a classic Greek education and huge respect towards Greek authors. If you want to claim that Alexander is your ancestor, then do what he did: Read books in Greek!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That’s a lovely sentiment.

[@pyrphoros8739]

Frederik the great of Prussia would only speak french in court and had a passion only for french philosophy and literature, but he is still considered german. It could still be that Alexander was not greek even if he appreciated the culture. But making Alexander slavic is one of the greatest historical leaps off logic i ever heard.

[@georgios_5342]

@@pyrphoros8739 Alexander himself had signs put up in his conquered lands that wrote "Alexander of Philip and the Hellenes except for the Spartans", he never considered the Macedonians as something other than Greek. Even the notion that he wasn't Greek only appeared in the 20th century by Slavic revisionists

[@SnaRi-dc1nl]

@@polyMATHY_Luke a lovely sentiment??! wow, romanticism at its finest. I honestly can't comprehend you people. I am shocked and at awe with your fascination of something that happened 2000 years ago as opposed to something that is an issue today that is affecting the lives of real human beings. Sure, lets focus on Alexander, who cares what the issues of today are! I am sorry for my obvious frustration, but only he who lives this torture will understand me.

[@user-zs3gd8fr3p]

​@@pyrphoros8739you probably don't know that he spoke greek since he started speaking.You know why?? Because ancient Macedonians were doric greeks(one of the four major greek tribes and the mast warlike one),just like spartans and epirotes.

[@kilitziro]

Ancient Greek wasn't just the attic language. ALL the historical evidence that has been found shows that at the kingdom of Macedonia where speaking a doric dialect which was spoken in its diversities through out all over central and northern today's Greece. Don't forget that Alexander's teacher was Aristotle. And that the Macedonians where alowed to compete at the Olympics, which as you probably know, only Greeks were participating.

[@fionakotziampasi5148]

Youve missed out many details, like, for example, the name Macedonia was adopted in 1944. Before that the region was known as Vardaska. It is knowledge common why the area was named Macedonia. Firstly to distance the Bulgarians in the region from Bulgaria, and to make them believe they were something else, and secondly to make claims over Macedonian, Greek. This information is available in every independent history book.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

FACTS 💯

[@apmoy70]

Vardarska Banovina to be exact ie Banate (province) of (river) Vardar

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@apmoy70 VARDAR e vo MAKEDONIJA. ti.. u Dunav.

[@rossfun9840]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 VARDAR e vo BULGARIA ti u vardar blg bot

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@rossfun9840......... go ...... in HELL.

[@untruelie2640]

In German, we call the ancient Kingdom "Makedonien", but the modern country (Nord-)"Mazedonien". So we use the indigenous spelling/pronounciation for the ancient region, people, etc. and the western spelling for the modern country and people. But I guess this approach fails when it comes to the people in the region because they don't have two different spellings.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Very convenient!

[@WitchVillager]

woah that's so cool

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

Well....Slavs spell it with "j". MakedoniJa

[@untruelie2640]

@@g.h.milanboseblut5616 But isn't that just the "normal" difference in country name endings between different languages? 🤔 The "-ien" for example is typical for German.

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

@@untruelie2640 I'm Volksdeutscher from Serbia/Kosova. No. What I wanna say is there's serbizing the things..... like, the word delinquency. They say deli*kvencija. Just because it's unpronounceable in their language, or momenAt. Or..... simply.....adding -a in female names. It's just because they read as they write, phonetically, so.... if you, Daniel, have a twin sister Danielle, and you come to take a house in Serbia from your dead dad will, since there's no accents in names and double "l", and you're born the same day, she'll HAVE to be called DanielA. They'll do it of course with ALL names, because they're extreeeemely sexist, so no Trish, only Trisha. So, they add and change whatever they want. They for example write New York as one word. Njujork

[@Alex_FRD]

Whenever I give a class about this or have a conversation about it, I refer to it as "the Greek kingdom of Macedon" to distinguish it from (North) Macedonia.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That’s a very good way to make it clear.

[@olbiomoiros]

Truly unnecessary distinction. There really was only one Macedon in antiquity, and we should certainly not engage with history from a modern perspective, but with an objective understanding of the given period. Applying anachronistic distinctions really only manages to complicate our historical understanding, while also contributing to inaccurate interpretations of history.

[@Galenus1234]

​@@polyMATHY_Luke A better analogy for American watchers would be... If the US split up into 50 countries, thus forming amongst others the independent Republic of California, there could be some objections by Mexico fearing that this Republic of California might state claims on the Mexican region of Baja California. (To make things spicy "Balkan-style", you would have to add about two-thousand years of borders changing back and forth to the extent that the each part of the Southwestern US and Northern Mexico was at least once part of a region called "California".)

[@neroatlas9121]

In reality, none of them are really true macedonians as they had closer ties to the thracian peoples and illyrians. I'd argue albania makes for a stronger relation to ancient macedonia due to their illyrian roots. However even they cannot be called descendants of them. Since there was an ancient illyrian tribe called the albani already inhabiting the region around the time so this means there are no true descendants of ancient macedonians. North macedonia and South macedonia are the closest greece and macedonia are getting.

[@lucabarbanti8211]

​@@neroatlas9121This is no place for fantasies and albanian theories. Only facts. The kingdom of Makedonia was a greek entity.

[@atso9453]

Skopjans calling themselves Macedonians is equivalent to Indians calling themselves British.

[@OFilellinas]

Thanks for this accurate video, even though I would personally be slightly less dismissive of Greek people's desire to emphasise their connection to Ancient Macedon and the rest of Ancient Greece, which I think is perfectly legitimate (albeit occasionally somewhat unnuanced in its expression) and it is also understandable considering the important role that their ties to Ancient Greece played in fuelling the Greek revolution and therefore the very existence of their country. I think we should celebrate that spirit. Also, I think you're being slightly too intellectually charitable when you suggest that a (mostly) Slavic people naming their country "Macedonia" can be interpreted as paying homage to the ancient people that lived there, just like naming an American town "Athens" or "Sparta". Greek people obviously don't care about the latter. And why would they? Naming a city, a district or any other kind of place simply does not carry the same weight and implications as naming a country. A country's name always makes implicit claims about the identity of its people, which in this case are at best confusing, and at worst fraudulent. That being said, I think Greek people shouldn't spend too much energy on this. They've already won the fight. They had already won the fight even before Slavomacedonia (which is what I call that country) was officially renamed. Almost no one outside Slavomacedonia thinks Greece's Slavic neighbours have anything whatsoever to do with Ancient Macedonia and Alexander the Great, and whoever does believe that has as much credibility and influence as the Flat Earth movement.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks for the comment, well written

[@mydogsbutler]

And as a Greek, I'm sick of Greeks like you cowardly being apologetic to the foreign liars that called them "Macedonians": Obvious leftists like you are trending on dangerous waters claiming them Macedonians. (also see Greek civil war).

[@MenelmacarGR]

Thank you for your thoughtful comment, Fred. We miss your videos and hope you're great in health.

[@smitsos1]

Hi Fred - I agree that there are significant implications in nationalising a name. An Athenian from Georgia typically identifies simply as an American, while a Macedonian from the Republic of Macedonia may not only perceive an ontological connection as a Macedonian but might also feel a nationalistic obligation to assert any affiliation with this semantic association. Initially, seemingly innocuous, such perceptions could potentially harden over time. Nevertheless, I also share the view that Greeks have devoted too much time to debating this issue, and it's now time to shift focus. On a positive note, the discussions against Slavo-Macedonians have served as an educational opportunity, allowing many 'lay folk' to gain a deeper understanding of Macedonia's history.

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

@@smitsos1 You have a fiasco in 2018 th ! You affirmed Slav Macedonian like never before . Thank you very much . In the top of everything you recognised them as Macedonian in the North , independent . It is better than before when it was federal part of Yugoslavian Federation . You humiliated yourselves because no change of a name acquired ! It became stronger "Macedonian to the North" as a country while the rest is territory only . Your justification that they speak ugly Slav language is not a great excuse in this democratic World if there was Macedonian uprising and registration of a separate Republic ! You know , in the sample of French Revolution ! So , it speaks how you couldn't punish them , having fogoten their Greek heritage , because not all Slavs came in Makedoniae Province and changed macedonian perception if they didn't lost that "macedonian" name !

[@demetriusstiakkogiannakes1326]

I would also like to point out that they do not only claim Alexander the great. But also other figures like Cyril and Methodius (whom were Byzantine-Greeks basically identified as Romans as well) and even other figures like Basil the second. Because he was part of the Macedonian Dynasty. Completely ignoring the fact that Basil was the Roman Basileus and as such, used and associated himself with the Roman identity at the time.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Indeed. It's a bit like claiming Vivaldi or Colombus as figures bringing renown to the Italian state, even though Italy was not yet a unified entity.

[@axelexiscus8660]

There is a small difference between Basil's Macedonia and Alexander's Macedonia that they also kinda ignore In that they're not the same place, what the Byzantines meant by 'Macedonia' was the Theme of Macedonia, headquartered in Adrianople, Thrace- where Basil I was from

[@giorikass1]

Basil II the Bulgar-slayer, he was tooooooooo kind only to blind them!!!!!

[@petergaskin1811]

Given that Basil's Greek name was Βασίλειο Πορφυρογέννητοςὁ Βουλγαροκτόνος or Basil II Porphyrogenitus Bulgarochthonos (Bulgar Slayer), I'm surprised that any Balkan entity would want to claim him.

[@axelexiscus8660]

@@petergaskin1811 except that he was an exceptional emperor who brought his empire to a golden age and filled the treasury to the brim with gold Brought peace and prosperity to his lands and defeated a foe that had plagued the Empire for over 400 years by that point Wow, he was a medieval ruler and ordered something reprehensible Like literally every famous historical ruler ever? He's hated in Bulgaria and loved in Greece (Because he was a net loss for Bulgaria and a net gain for Greece, shocker)

[@eleanar6252]

Νομίζω πως όσο αφήνεις τον οποιοδήποτε να έχει πάνω σου την οποιαδήποτε επιρροή και αξίωση, στο τέλος σε "καβαλάει". Αργά αργά. Και για αυτό φωνάζουμε για αυτά τα μικρά τουλάχιστον. Η χώρα μας σε αντίθεση με το παρελθόν είναι μικροσκοπική και δεν έχει καμία δύναμη πάνω της. Δείτε το τι γίνεται με την Τουρκία η οποία συνεχώς παρενοχλεί την Ελλάδα για τα νησιά στο Αιγαίο. Όλοι αναφέρονται σε αυτό ως "dispute". Αυτό σημαίνει πως υπάρχει περιθώριο για συζήτηση, αλλά τουναντίον. Αν δεν παραπονεθούμε, αύριο μπορεί να έρθει η Γερμανία ή μια άλλη μεγάλη δύναμη και να πει...οκ να τα πάρουν τα νησάκια και να μην γκρινιάζετε. Αυτό μπορούμε και αυτό κάνουμε. Έτσι κατάντησε η χώρα μας. Αυτά.

[@user-hh4kn9xf4n]

Καλησπέρα Λουκά, από ότι μπορώ να καταλάβω απο το επίθετο σου πρέπει να είσαι Ιταλικής καταγωγής, σκέψου τώρα να ζούσες στην Ιταλία και να έπρεπε συνεχώς να υπερασπίζεσαι τα εδάφη, τον λαό και την ιστορία σου από γειτονικούς λαούς που θέλουν να σε κατακτήσουν. Στην Ελλάδα κάθε γενιά Ελλήνων εδώ και 3500 χρόνια υπερασπίζεται την πατρίδα, παῖδας, γυναῖκας, θεῶν τε πατρῴων ἕδη, θήκας τε προγόνων. Το πρόβλημα είναι ότι από την επανάσταση του 1821 και μετά ο εχθρός είναι πλέον εντός των τειχών. Δόξα τώ Θεώ είμαστε ακόμα εδώ και θα συνεχίσουμε να είμαστε, για να μην υπάρξει κάποιος στο μέλλον που να πει ΄΄Σε αυτόν τον τόπο κάποτε υπήρχαν κάποιοι που τους λέγαν Έλληνες΄΄

[@user-sf4ps3si7m]

Σωστός

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

Another topic you should cover is: "Is the Romanian language historically Latin or Slavic". I know, and I know, for you this sounds like a ridiculous question, but this is actually what many balkanic trolls have put to question.😂

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Ah indeed, I've been getting around to that. Soon!

[@Michail_Chatziasemidis]

If I remember correctly, Romanian was for some time written in the Cyrillic alphabet, wasn't it? P.S. However, script doesn't necessarily indicate that the languages that use it are closely related (cf. Chinese characters)

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

@@Michail_Chatziasemidis You're right, but the Cyrillic script has been forcibly adapted into the Old Romanian language. The Moldavian ruler Dimitrie Cantemir writes in his _Descriptio Moldaviae,_ that the Cyrillic script that he calls "Barbaric" was adopted after the Council of Florence in 1430, during Alexandru the Good's reign. So probably around 1431-1432 was it integrated for the first time in the Old Romanian language. He writes the reason why as well, he says that the metropolitan of Moldavia who was Orthodox, converted to Catholicism, Mark of Ephesus (the head of the Orthodoxy in Constantinople) ordered for a new head of the Metropolitan of Moldavia to go and get rid of all Catholics in the state. This new Orthodox head of the Moldavian Metropolitan, was a Bulgarian named "Teoctist", and he got rid of all Catholics in the country. But, he also asked Alexandru the Good to change the Romanian alphabet from Latin to Cyrillic so that it would be harder for conversion. Unfortunately we do not have any existent text in the Old Romanian language before 1431-1432 to know this. But the Oldest documents in the Old Romanian language with the Latin script are "Our Father prayer", written by the boyar Luca Stroici, in Moldova, in 1593 and discovered by Bogdan Petriceicu Hasdeu, it was considered the first Romanian text written in Latin letters. However, the researchers discovered another text, apparently dated 1573, 20 years earlier, the Book of Songs (The Todorescu Fragment), a text translated from a Hungarian original and probably printed in Cluj, with Latin letters and Hungarian spelling in the Old Romanian language. The etymological spellings from the text from 1573 were also preserved in the copies made after this text and in other works written in Transylvania and Banat, with Latin letters and Hungarian spelling but in the Old Romanian language. In the 17th century, the number of works of this kind would increase significantly, even if the Latin alphabet was used sporadically in the writing of Romanian texts. The most famous Romanian works from this century, written in Latin letters and with Hungarian spelling, are: The Psalms, to Mihail Halici, 1640; The book of songs, by Gergely Sandor from Haţeg, 1642; The Catechism, by Stefan Fogarasi, 1648, to which are added two other lexicographical works: Dictionarium valachico-latinum (Anonymus Caransebesiensis) and Latin-Romanian-Hungarian Dictionary (Lexicon Marsilianum, after the name of its owner), and a third lexicographical work, from Second half of the 18th century, Lexicon compendiarium latino-valachicum, compiled by a Romanian from the Bihor area, after a Latin-Hungarian dictionary by Paris-Papai. We have also probably an earlier mention of a Latin translated bible into Old Romanian in 1240s in the Diocese of Cumania as order by Pope Gregory IXth. Edit: I hope this helps you, thank you for the comment. But sorry for it being so long😂👍

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

@@polyMATHY_Luke It will be very interesting and hilarious. The trolls usually argue in this subject with those arguments: 1. The so called "re-latinization" of the Romanian language during the 19th Century, however, most linguists are trying not to use this word as we very well know that the Old Romanian language was already Latin by that point, just that some words of any kind (even including original Romance one's) were replaced by French, Latin and Italian words. We usually refer to this process as "standardisation" of the Old Romanian language. 2. The Old Romanian Cyrillic alphabet, (already gave some info to the other guy about this alphabet, if you want to check). 3. The Romanian ethnonym, they argue that the Romanian ethnonym of _Român_ didn't appear until the 19th Century after the foundation of Romania in 1859, as this country didn't exist until then, and that our original ethnonym was "Vlach" but they forget that first, it was an exonym, even Italians were referred as such, and in Hungarian, Italy is still called Olaszország. Secondly, the exonym literally meant "Latin-speaker". 4. They also take the examples from works done by Romanian linguists, whom in their view calls Romanian an original "slavic" language and that today's Romanian is an "artificial language". Hopefully I gave you an idea of what their arguments are based on, love your video tho about the Greek and "Macedonian" language, your face expression was spot on in the whole video, I couldn't stop laughing😂👍

[@Moses_VII]

​@@InAeternumRomaMaterThe guys who say Romanian is Slavic and not Romance are as crazy as the people who say Ataturk didn't change the Turkish language.

[@georgios_5342]

As a Greek person, I think you did a pretty good job at explaining the basics of the controversy to an international audience. I would like to point out some more issues that you might find interesting, but bear in mind, this is the Greek perspective on the subject, so I might be biased here. So first of all, Ancient Macedonia is considered by Greeks to be a clearly Hellenic civilization, given that, while the spoken language is relatively unknown, all of the written evidence they left was in Attic Greek, just as many other less significant Greek states, or those that didn't have a literary tradition. Furthermore Macedonians had Greek names, participated in the Olympic Games (which were exclusive to Greeks) and their royal dynasty was from Argos, so clearly Alexander was Greek. The alliance they created was the League of Corinth, also known as the Panhellenic alliance. And in all their inscriptions they wrote "Alexander and the rest of the Greeks minus the Lacedaemonians". But just because something was once controlled by ancient Macedonia, doesn't mean that it can claim to be the successor of Macedonia, otherwise Turkey, Egypt and Pakistan are all successors of the Macedonians 😅. Or Bangladesh is the successor of the British Empire. We need to consider what people made and ruled the empire. And those people were a Greek tribe, the Makedones. The land that is nowadays in FYROM was also inhabited by Greeks at the time, as it was also home to a Greek community during the early 20th century (Monastiri, Stromnitsa, Geugeli and Doirani especially were Greek towns back then, their populations were later evicted by Serbia and Yugoslavia). And just because someone has conquered a part of Macedonia, doesn't make him a Macedonian, just like a Tunisian is not a Roman because it used to be the Roman Empire there. The name of the land comes from the people, not the people from the land or what used to be there. Getting on to my final point, it is also worth considering that the "modern region of Macedonia" is actually a concept conceived by Bulgarian Nationalists, then furthered by the Communist Internationale and the Nazis. It was essentially the plan to extend the classical region of Macedonia arbitrarily north to Skopje, so that it included Bulgarian populations. Sure, Roman Macedonia also had those borders. But first of all, Roman Macedonia was inhabited by Greeks, and second, Roman Macedonia hadn't existed for more that a thousand years by that point. So it is obvious that the only reason why Bulgaria popularized this extended version of Macedonia was that it allowed it to present the region as majority Bulgarian and therefore rightfully hers. Whereas Greece only considers its own region as true Macedonia, not because we claim the rest, but because we believe that the name of the region comes from the people that inhabit it. And since the neighboring people are Slavic and not Hellenic, they cannot belong to the Makedones tribe and therefore their land is not Macedonian. We used to also claim the four cities that I mentioned earlier as part of Macedonia because they had Greek populations, but Yugoslavia deported them so they are no longer claimed. And no, we weren't angry that the country would attack us. Afterall they have no army. We were angry that they are so blatantly stealing our history and presenting it to the world as their own. Our history, name, traditions, even products, are receiving an undeclared war from a slanderous neighbor, who pretends that ours are not the true ones but his are. That's the biggest problem

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I appreciate your detailed response, thank you.

[@georgios_5342]

​@@polyMATHY_LukeI tried to be as sincere and respectful to the other people as well. But Greeks often get angry when people say that the dispute is petty, exactly because we believe that our history and identity is our own, and its importance is to be decided by us for us, and not by outsiders.

[@georgiosa.9893]

Πες τα χρυσόστομε!!!

[@mpampismaniatis7634]

I wouldn't explain it better well done! And i m glad that the creator of this video read it because he irritates me.

[@noelleggett5368]

It’s all Europe now (except Britain). Have a drink and a laugh with our neighbour.

[@greekbyzantineempire7466]

Ancient Macedonia (/ˌmæsɪˈdoʊniə/ ⓘ MASS-ih-DOH-nee-ə; Greek: Μακεδονία), also called Macedon (/ˈmæsɪdɒn/ MASS-ih-don), was an ancient Greek kingdom on the periphery of Archaic and Classical Greece, which later became the dominant state of Hellenistic Greece.The kingdom was founded and initially ruled by the royal Argead dynasty, which was followed by the Antipatrid and Antigonid dynasties. Home to the ancient Macedonians, the earliest kingdom was centered on the northeastern part of the Greek peninsula, and bordered by Epirus to the southwest, Illyria to the northwest, Paeonia to the north, Thrace to the east and Thessaly to the south.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Quite

[@hrvatskiapoksiomen9]

14:15 That's right 👍 Vergina Sun was a Panhellenic symbol even centuries before Alexander the Great.

[@alkishadjinicolaou5831]

Thank you for setting the record straight. However don't forget that because of Alexander Greek culture spread throughout most of the then known world. Hence the term Hellenistic period. If he was not Greek how could this have happened? We (Greeks) owe this to him and that is why he was voted the most important Greek in a poll in 2009. As to the Athenians of the time - especially Demosthenes - criticising him , that is not out of the norm. The Greek city-states often disagreed between each other and very often fought against each other example - most prominent of those wars was the Peloponnesian war between Athens and Sparta.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

I don’t know why Luke insists on never mentioning this!!! Is it deliberate? I don’t know, but I am giving him the benefit of the doubt!!!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Alexander and Philip sought to legitimize Macedonia as a rightful Hellenic peer nation along with Athens and Sparta and other city-states to the south, and thus Atticized (a very specific kind of Greek language and culture back then) their kingdom. Attic was the prestige dialect since the century prior, thus Attic Greek was the language spread by Alexander and his lieutenants, rather than Northwest Greek or another dialect. Alexander certainly thought of himself as Greek and made every effort to make himself the greatest Greek who ever lived, especially according to Athenian/Attic norms. Alexander's and Philips' desire to legitimize Macedonia as Hellenic was either 1) because they felt they were as Greek as everyone else and wanted equal recognition, or 2) because they didn't have much in the way of Greek language or ethnicity or culture in Macedonia, but sought to adopt these things because they were the coolest game in town. The same thing happens in ancient Gaul: the Gallic peoples readily stopped speaking Celtic languages and learned Latin in order to Romanize themselves as quickly as possible, once Caesar and the Roman Empire made it eminently clear that the only civilization worth being a part of (subjectively, of course) was the Roman one. Look how the Holy Roman Empire was essentialy just a collection of German, not Italian or French or Spanish, city-states - Rome, like Greece, was the cool thing to be.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Hello Luke, if we consider theory number 2, how do you explain that the Overwhelming Majority of Onomastics were entirely Greek with many names & words Uniquely Epichorial in Macedonia? We are not talking about a few names & words here, we are talking about hundreds upon hundreds of names & words with clear Hellenic Etymologies! You cannot compare that to Ancient Gaul, they didn’t have Latin names & words. The fact that you avoid this overwhelming evidence as if it were minuscule is quite astounding, as you also mentioned it in your other video that you don’t take any of that into consideration! Even the earliest findings of inscribed names in Macedonia are 100% Greek like Themida, Pleoni, & Machatas! Again, we are talking about the overwhelming majority and hundreds upon hundreds of names & words here! Also, why do you never mention in any of your videos or comments that many other Greeks Hellenicity was "questioned" by the Athenians? Wouldn’t that be important to your viewers to help them understand the broader context & the intricacies of the Ancient Hellenic World during that time? I would never challenge you on any linguistic or pronunciation video, we all respect you & consider you the ELITE of the ELITE, but when it comes to the greater context of the Hellenic World according to the sources, it makes me wonder how much of the Ancient Greek sources you have actually read? I figure that it has to be a lot due to the nature of what the focus of your studies are! Hope to hear back from you!

[@alkishadjinicolaou5831]

@@polyMATHY_Luke If we start thinking like that we we'd better start disputing everything. We are discussing now whether Alexander was Greek when mainstream History teaches us that he was. If it's like that we'd better start disputing that the Elephant is not round.

[@vgiannakos]

discussing weather the Macedonians and Alexander were Hellenes, is a ridiculous thing in the first place. Like History begun with them. We have to come to the understanding, that Hellenic figures like them, are considered closer to contemporary times for the Hellenic civilization length through time. Phillip and the kings of the Macedons were descendants of an older leader called Makednos, thus the name Macedonia. Many centuries before Alexander. Now even before Makednos came to the region, it was already named Thrace. We are talking many thousand years before Alexander, around the time of Deucalion.

[@davidbenhazar1778]

Luke: -Is Macedonia Greek or Slavic? Luke's subscribers: -Luci, Macedonia provincia Romana est et semper erit

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Hehe

[@georgekiriak7027]

Lol This is smart commenting. as a Greek with an identity crisis between Greece and Rome i must inform you that we must look on the question on how much we greeks can claim Roman heritage . I am sure Luke know all about it :D Roma Invicta !!

[@RiccardoRadici]

​@@georgekiriak7027From Italy, I would admit that Greece was superior to Rome in most important aspects. There are a lot of people in the world who care about their Roman heritage, you Greeks should care mostly about the ancient Greek one, which is often underestimated: that's just my advice.

[@cazwalt9013]

​@@RiccardoRadiciout of all the groups who lived in the roman empire, only Latina and Greeks can claim the Roman identity. Latina being the original and Greeks adopting it and carrying it up until 1453

[@davidbenhazar1778]

@@georgekiriak7027 actually, it would be more productive not to argue about who are the Romanest Romans ever and who are stulti barbari, but to agree that Rome and romanitas are the common heritage of the European civilisation in general. *Roma aeterna!*

[@infotrady2178]

Alexander the Great spreads the Greek civilization centuries before even the word slav existed! Need to say more?

[@rossfun9840]

NO you said it all ! excelent comment ! i am really jealus that this comment was not made by me , but i will use it with your permition , Short and not desputable !!!

[@user-oi4cn7rt8t]

You are OK You told the truth in a few words Nice

[@eduardosouto1116]

Ancient Macedonia = Greece, period. Just common knowledge. Thank you, Luke, for such an excellent video.

[@alekkost]

Ancient Macedonia actually has nothing to with greece. How can an ancient country be part of a country made in 1821?

[@theslavicguy485]

@@alekkost🤦‍♂️

[@GoceDelcev2694]

greece never existed before 1823

[@user-rf5fg4dz9c]

True! Language is the same! Same nation! Hellas Greece are equivalents They were both used all the millenia.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@GoceDelcev2694 POZDRAV ! ! Tatjana od MAKEDONIJA

[@AtomikNY]

Mandarin and Cantonese are definitely two separate languages. Speakers of the two cannot understand each other when they speak if they haven't studied the other one before. They do use a lot of the same characters, but they get used in different ways and both varieties have lots of characters the other one lacks, so even written mutual intelligibility is quite limited. In Chinese, varieties like Mandarin and Cantonese called 方言 ("local speech"), and while that often gets translated as "dialect" in English to reflect the connotation that it's part of a greater linguistic area, I think "topolect" is a more accurate translation.

[@pisse3000]

Indeed. They are clearly both Sinitic languages, but that's about as helpful as saying that English and Swiss German are both Germanic languages. Without studying the other you would not understand a word when spoken, but perhaps you'd pick up a word here or there in written texts.

[@paradoxmo]

⁠@@pisse3000 it’s not quite that simple. Many Cantonese speakers writing for a pan-Chinese audience write in Modern Standard Written Chinese, which is a distinct language from all spoken Sinitic variants that is based on Mandarin and Classical Chinese. Since everyone in the Sinitic language area writes in this literary standard then there is a case for the language being considered one language at least in part. When Sinitic speakers can’t communicate with each other orally, they resort to writing! So the written language is not like a difference between Swiss German and English. It’s closer to the situation with Standard German, which is the written standard for all German-language-area speakers even when they don’t speak the same German language. But yes, all the spoken Sinitic variants are distinct, and some variants (like Cantonese, Taiwanese Minnan, Hakka) have their own variant-specific orthography.

[@AtomikNY]

​@@paradoxmo It's hard to draw parallels between standard written Chinese and any non-logographic script. But if we are going to draw a parallel, I'd say it's more like medieval Ecclesiastical Latin than Modern German, where a formal classical version of a language is used as a written lingua franca among people speaking that language's descendants. But it's not even quite like that. It's more like how you could theoretically write Romance languages using some kind of standardized Latin spellings for the vocabulary, and standardize some of the grammar and vocabulary around Classical Latin forms so people write more similarly. That might allow Romance speakers to communicate effectively between different Romance languages, but it wouldn't make them part of the same language. It would just provide speakers of multiple languages a highly formal written standard that they could use for cross-linguistic communication, that isn't well-suited to representing anybody's native language.

[@GabrielTravelerVideos]

When I was a kid growing up in the woods of northern California I found two arrowheads on our land: proof that I was walking in the footsteps of Native Americans. So would it make any sense for me, a guy who is 3/4 British and 1/4 Italian, to claim Native American heritage simply because I was living where they used to live? This is essentially what the Macedonians of modern day North Macedonia are doing. I suppose there has been some cultural mixing between the Slavs and the Greeks over the centuries, in the same way that there has been some cultural mixing between the Native Americans and the European invaders. But not a lot. I also thought at first that it seemed a little silly for the Greeks to make a big deal out of it, until I booked a flight to Skopje and realized the airport was called Alexander the Great airport. And then I arrived and saw huge statues of Alexander and King Philip in the city center. Nothing against the Macedonians, I had a nice time there and met lots of friendly people. But ancient Macedonia simply isn't part of their cultural history. The modern language of Macedonia is a dialect of Bulgarian, which has no connection to what Alexander the Great spoke. As you mentioned, the Slavs arrived a thousand years later, invaded and pushed the Greeks out of the land where they lived, same as the Europeans did to the Native Americans. To claim the history of the people you invaded is a strange one.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Thank you Gabriel for your honest & honorable input on the issue! 🙏🏻 Part of the problem is that people just chalk it up to the Greeks being unreasonable or fanatics, when there are real dangers in this type of Historical Propaganda (especially in the Balkans) that could be used in the future as a tool to start future conflicts, & not necessarily by the people of Skopia, but by others in the region that could try to use this Propaganda as justification for future aggressions. Greece was right to try to nip it at the bud & avoid all of that early on! 👍🏻

[@GeoHdReal]

It's more comparable to a Mexican Mestizo claiming heritage to the Aztecs. Modern day Macedonians genetically are a mix of Slavs and the indigenous people. Furthermore, the Greek region of Macedonia was mostly Slavic before the 1923 Greco-Turkish population exchange, and thus most Greeks there are Anatolian, and have negligible local ancestry compared to the Slavo-Macedonians and the less numerous pre exchange Greek-Macedonians.

[@giannismalainos9216]

@@GeoHdReal you are correct but the matter is ,not only the blood and dna makes ancestry imo. The cultural part is what matters and defines where somebody belongs. If someone was European who travelled in Native American lands but became 1 with the local culture , speaking the native language , adopting the customs , being part of the local religion and marrying a local , he has become one with the group. The cultural relation is stronger than the blood relation, cause if I am of a certain ethnic group , but I change my language , change my customs and everyday life , change my religion , change my symbols and my overall mentality, then how can I claim cultural heritage only based on dna?The Mexicans who are of mixed ancestry or European ancestry , when claiming Aztec heritage , do they deny the claim of the remaining Native American population of this heritage ? No. Do they claim that Aztec historical figures spoke Spanish? No.

[@GeoHdReal]

@@giannismalainos9216 besides the language being more closely related, how are Pontians and other Anatolian Greeks that much more related to Alexander than us? The local style of folklore between Slavs and Greeks in the region was more similar than Pontians and local Greeks, and the myths and legends of Macedonian Slavs do contain Alexander and his legacy. Actually a local Slav and Greek are more similar than a Macedonian Slav and a Russian in these things too, the language is only more closely related. I don’t think it’s fair at all to bully us for calling ourselves Macedonians, we are Macedonians, and we have some heritage from the Ancient Macedonians, but it is not the main element, I agree that the obsession and focus on it is bad and leads to ridiculous theories and claims, but the extreme contra-arguments of most opponents are also wrong.

[@elenilepouri7253]

​@@GeoHdRealBecause anatolian and pontic Greeks originated from ancient Greece as Makedonians too After 1st Greek colonization- 14- 12th cen bc Greeks inhabited to Cyprus Anatolia M asia Pontos. Makedonia is a Greek origin and etymoligy name and an ancient Greek kingdom. Today all tribes who removed in south balkan hundred yrs later call themselfs " Makedonians"

[@ntvans]

''Αρχή σοφίας ή των ονομάτων επίσκεψις'' Antisthenes. That is why Greeks will never accept the name or any of its derivatives. The Antisthenes quote sums up all the valid arguments presented in the comments below.

[@willmosse3684]

You wouldn’t believe how many people I have met in Romania who INSIST that Latin originally comes from Romania and went to Italy later, and therefore all Romance languages descend from ancient Romanian. They all seem to believe that if their grandfather told them this, this absolutely PROVES it to be true 😂. There are a lot of interesting historical-cultural theories in this part of the world 😅

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Lol reminds me of the grandma in the Cleopatra “documentary”

[@willmosse3684]

@@polyMATHY_Luke 😂 Very similar

[@hrvatskiapoksiomen9]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Haha when the black American "historian" said: "My black grandmother told me that Cleopatra was black ..." 😞😞

[@ItalMiser117]

oh yeah. and that trajan considers dacia as his homeland..@@willmosse3684

[@miloshp7399]

Pseudo-history seems common in poor and postcommunistic states. In Serbia, there is a conspiracy theory that we Serbs were always on Balkans and other Slavs originate from Serbs 🤡 Those conspiracy people aren't very precise and can't understand cultural and linguistical shifts in populations. Simply put, they just wanna claim something pretty for their people and that's how they approach history.

[@MarbledKing]

Just a methodological observation: in your effort to keep some kind of balance, you ended up equalising hard facts (which you know and correctly mentioned) with pure speculation like "it would be utterly possible that..." in relation to what ancient Macedonians spoke, although even this should be irrelevant since a) Macedonians themselves identified as Greeks and b) the enemies of Greece, such as the Persians, called them also Greeks "who wore their shields on the head" because of the hat Macedonians used to wear.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

This is exactly Part of the Problem. Also, the attitude by outsiders to simply chalk it up to Greece being "Unreasonable" or some sort of "Bully" is also WORK BSness! Thats EXACTLY why there even is a problem. So irresponsible to do that! Greece is 100% RIGHT in this dispute that should have always been a NON-ISSUE. They wanted to Nip it at the Bud in the Hostile Balkan Region where conflicts can spread like wild-fire for the simplest of reasons & future justifications can be found in any sort of Propaganda that is not in line with Historical Reality! 👍🏻

[@dinos9607]

Precisely. There isn't a single hard fact that could give way to any assumption of any supposed "non-Greek ancestry of Macedonians". Macedonians participated in the Olympics, in a Greek-blood-only event. And they did so even at times they were a powerless little kingdom in North Greece verging on the edge of collapse. Why would the Helanodikae tolerate their participation if they were not Greeks.

[@billpet4602]

It's very simple. The rules in the Olympic Games were very strict. Only Greek men could take part. Period (Ancient Greeks knew better than us) BTW Philippos won three consecutive equestrian events.

[@goalsdraw8897]

I just happened to visit the royal tombs of ancient macedonian kings in vergina including the grave of king philip himself ( father of alexander ) and the museum of AIGAI , old capital of ancient Macedonia , 2 weeks ago . Once you really visit these places you do realize all these are nonsense propagandistic crap we allowed people to even dare question . Everything there SCREAMS GREEK .

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Absolutely!!! All it takes is ONE VISIT !!!! The Macedonians were not just Hellenes, they were the most Zealous Hellenes that ever existed & were eager to Hellenize everything in their Path!!!!! 😃

[@georgefarmakis9238]

The funny thing is that the Slavs of "North Macedonia" don't even visit these museums.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@georgefarmakis9238 Facts! 💯👍🏻

[@dinos9607]

As said above : the Slavs of """"""North Macedonia"""""" (i.e. North of Macedonia) don't even visit the Macedonian archaeological sites.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@dinos9607 I wonder why they don’t? 🤣

[@strengthodyssey7235]

I am Greek. This video is excellent and unbiased. I am genuinely thankful that you made the effort to create this. It is very informative for non-Balkans and the two "dogs" of this dispute. Regarding the insistence of Greeks on defending the identity of Macedonia as purely Hellenic. It is not only about a possible land grab. It is mostly about making sure that the memory of Alexander the Great as the central figure that brought about the Hellenistic age and the widespread of the Greek Logos and knowledge remains intact. The effects of this monumental historical event can be felt on a global scale to this day. It is natural for Greeks and non-Greeks who have an unconditional love for historical truth to defend the legacy of Alexander the Great against lies, regardless of whether that lie will be used as a geopolitical excuse for the nation-state of North Macedonia to expand on Greek borders. This is not a matter of mere "complaining". Furthermore, considering the region's historical continuity and the Slavic linguistic origins of the "Macedonian" language, a logical question emerges. Since the people of the nation-state of North Macedonia do not have any linguistic connection to the original kingdom of Macedonia, and they barely have any geographical connection, why do they call their language and themselves "Macedonian"? The argument of self-determination is simply not enough. I can identify myself as Napoleon Bonaparte, this does not make it true, nor anyone other than myself is morally obliged to accept this as true. Regardless, I pray for the tensions in the Balkans to be resolved in a manner that brings harmony and peace while respecting the historical truth and dignity of the ethnicities of the region.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

They do it to fake their history and also to legitimize future land grab claims against Greece. Many of these south slavs always envied the Hellenic Legacy & always coveted the Jewel of the Aegean & the: HOUSE OF HELLENISM aka SYMBASILEVOUSA as it was called in Constantinople: THESSALONIKI 💎 The warms waters of the Aegean my friend 👍🏻

[@kourtourafi]

Allow me to attempt to enhance your understanding of the Greek rage over the use of the term Macedonia, using an example, or a parallelism, if you will, adapted to your reality. You are American, correct? You do know how Texas won its independence from the Mexicans, I presume (Sam Houston, Alamo, Antonio López de Santa Anna etc). Well, imagine a turbulent situation in the distant future culminating in the break-up of Mexico in a number of new sovereign entities, with one of them being the independent state of... Chihuahua. Now imagine this new state renaming itself Texas, simultaneously raising claim on the lands of the American state of Texas. Furthermore, imagine the self-proclaimed Texans (former Chihuahuans), alleging that they are the only true Texans and that Sam Houston and Stephen Austin were Mexican heroes who tried to protect the currently enslaved part of Texas from the voracious appetite of the greedy, hated gringos. Not a very beautiful picture, is it? In Greece, we've got a saying: "whoever stays out of the dance, knows plenty of songs", meaning that when a problem is not yours or doesn't concern you, you've got the luxury of making many suggestions or criticizing the ones who deal with it... until the problem reaches your back yard, my friend. I would also like to urge you to take into consideration that (past and present) historical revisionism is a tool... 'weaponized' not only by our North Macedonian neighbours for their benefit, but by other 'players' in the Balkans as well, such as Albanians, Bulgarians and Turks. If we allowed every (potential) revisionist to usurp our history and distort it in order to promote their overt or covert agendas, we would be the world's biggest buffoons... P.S. By the way, not all Athenians viewed Macedonians and Phillip as inferior or barbarians. For example Isocrates and Aeschines, as skilled and renowned orators as Demosthenes and Hyperides (leading figures of the anti-Macedonian fraction in Athens), clearly thought of Phillip II as the Greek leader who could unite all Greeks under his banner and eliminate the ever-present Persian threat once and for all.

[@vasiliskarpouzis9568]

I think you need to study about the Macedonian Struggle to get a better idea about the issue. Also, don't forget many people are not that well versed in history or Balkan politics, so when they see a country called Macedonia marketed as the country of Alexander the Great for tourism it is likely they will accept it as such. And that's before covering products for export.

[@user-wn4kz2pp3k]

i am greek cypriot....Even today i speak an ancient-middle ages greek dialect that a greek speaker of the mainland Greece could not understand...The roots of this dialect comes from Arcadia the heart of Greece...I believe, back then, a greek macedonian could not understand completely greek speakers of other regions and vice versa.

[@nickname6052]

Luka, the Northernmazedonian speak Bulgarian dialekt. I took a Guy from Germany to Skopie. And he said, that in school they use to talk about a reunion of Mazedonia. So, the Greeks are right when they say, that the slavics want to take the Central Makedonia from Greece. It is no stupid Greek opinion like you use to say. Greeks are right. When you are looking in your iPhnones Languages for Mazedonian, than it is Bulgarian. So, you are not right Luke. Thanks Nikolas

[@georgekiriak7027]

Great video Luke ! thank you . As a Greek i will not tell you that you made any mistakes . I will just add in 2 of your comments . 1. To understand the situation its not that the Greeks afraid that they will loose lands to fyrom (aka west Bulgaria 😂) but that whole thing is mostly about economy and the brand name of "Macedonia" that Greek businesses have build products upon and would never accept the fyromnians claiming and using that brand name thus taking part of the market . More over Greece is heavily relied in tourism and having a country trying to grab parts of Greek history and mythology would cause great financial damage . Those are the main reasons for the whole thing 2, About the vergina sun it was related by ancient sources to the founders of ancient Macedonia and especially Perdiccas (Περδίκκας) its was used in varius forms in Greece because Greeks had a sun God but in Macedonia it was even more related with their beginning as a group of people Thanks again for the Great video!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Ευχαριστώ! Money and tourism are a big deal, that's true.

[@hliow2899]

If only we had Μακεδονία™ perhaps Μακεδονία®

[@RomaInvicta202]

And you shouldn't flipping accept it, except your northern neighbours everyone knows that Macedonia is mostly in Greece (I suppose Northern Macedonia is fair enough)

[@user-lf2jh2ru9f]

I will remind you of only one thing, the dirty British lobbying in 1919 so that the Serbs would not get Aegean Macedonia (which then belonged to them ethnically) or pay the war damages that the Croats owed as a former part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. The Greeks did not deserve Macedonia.

[@georgekiriak7027]

@@RomaInvicta202 its a financial game and our hard earned money will not be gifted to them though our brand name that was build with great labour. Pls give them the brand name of your region and let them sell their profucts with your label . . Thank you sir Where are you from may i ask??

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

It’s important to note that the "Vergina Sun" or the 16 rayed Sunburst has been used by all the regions of the Hellenic World since Antiquity. There were also 8 & 12 Point Starbursts as well. This symbol continued to be used in "Byzantine" iconography, especially in images of the Virgin Mary where it became known as the AEIPARTHENOS !!!! 👍🏻

[@Unknown00432]

Did the vergina sun was used by pontic greeks?

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@Unknown00432 Hi troll, I’ve seen you in multiple comments spreading your Propaganda! But the answer is YES, they ALSO DID. But that wouldn’t matter regardless because the Macedonians were ALWAYS BY FAR the Christian Plurality in Greek Macedonia! 👇🏻 The Greeks were ALSO a plurality in the Vilayets of Thessaloniki & Monasteri [Ancient Herakleia Lynkestis] in all the ottoman Census after the turko-islamic populations. As a matter of Fact, in these Historic Macedonian Regions the ottoman Census done by Hilmi Pasha states that there were: 634,510 Greeks 🇬🇷 [Vilayets of Salonica & Monastir] 355,729 Bulgars 🇧🇬 [Vilayets of Salonica & Monastir] No ethnic "Macedonians" were EVER mentioned in any of those Censuses conducted! Those 634,510 Greeks, which were there before any Population exchanges are the ACTUAL Remnants of the Ancient Macedonians & that Legacy belongs to THEM. Cope & Cry you self-hating bulgarian burglar!!!! 🤡

[@supermavro6072]

@@Unknown00432 they used the star and cresent like the turks

[@mydogsbutler]

@@Unknown00432 You do realize that Pontic Greeks speak Greek because of ancient Macedonian conquest of the region right?

[@mydogsbutler]

@@Unknown00432 You can't just invent history based on specualtio. The conquest of the Pontius region was by Macedonians not Athenians nor Spartans. Ancient Macedonians spread Greek language and culture. That's why it's called the HELLENISITIC period not the Slavistic period. Which begs the questrion... if the former self-identifying ethnic Bulgarians in Skopje now claim to be founders of the Hellenistic period... why pray tell would they be antihellenic? They are like Hamas claiming to be the "real' jews. Its blatantly obvious they are about as "Macedonians" as they are "Athenians". It's a giant lie.

[@2lazylizards961]

Alexander the Great lived between 356 BC - 10/11 June 323 BC and the Slavs came into this area 6th-7th century A.D , all most thousand years later,the end.

[@christopherdieudonne]

Please don't take this the wrong way but I could listen to you explain things forever. You're a great story teller !

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That’s very kind. As for stories, I think it’s important for folks new to this topic to go research more on their own, since my presentation here is pretty superficial. Thanks again!

[@italuswikiano1191]

...with a mellifluous voice.

[@g.h.milanboseblut5616]

Don't worry, I compliment him like that all the time, he's very cool and smooth guy, he understands. It IS very .... what's the word.... engulfing. His voice, his... very precise pronounciation. It's basically magical to listen to him. He knows we don't mean we are in love with his voice as in love. He has a gorgeous Italian gf. As Latina as it gets, from Lazio

[@janeza382]

He is an ameteur.

[@baklavaconsumer1080]

4:24 Accurate map of thessaly after the rains

[@gnas1897]

😂

[@faramund9865]

I get the Greeks. The people living in North-Macedonia have nothing to do with Macedonia. They are Bulgars and Slavs. Maybe instead of trying to appropriate Hellenistic culture, they should show some pride of their own culture.

[@TheiosTasos]

Exactly that

[@Yamuma]

we do show a lot of pride, you should visit ;)

[@JoyMadrugada]

Ancient Greeks be like : lets create a home to our Greek Gods ...ofc where ? Olympus! I mean why Greeks stage a House for their Gods out of Greek World .. simple as that . LEt the slavs paenoean albanian feel proud for their thing but not stealing Hellenic History

[@VladTevez]

So you have decided to live dangerously in your comment section? :grab popcorn:

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Hehe most have been pretty civil so far, I'm pleased

[@markela18]

Hi Luke. I would like to say that I highly respect you and enjoy your videos. I was not going to comment since, as you said, the audience you were addressing was non-Balkans. I am also not interested in any potential "corrections" (or not) sort of speak in terms of the facts you presented, but I thought I would try to give you some more information to possibly help you and your audience better understand why this is so important for Greeks. Before I do though, as a Classicist myself, I would like to point out the deafening absence of modern Greek sources in the West when it comes to presenting Greek and the surrounding history. It may surprise many, (as I have found to be true in Academia) but we have great historians, archeologists, classicists, etc. whose works would bridge a lot of misunderstandings or possibly answer questions like yours if they were given the chance to be included in the telling of our own stories. Just leaving that here as food for thought. The rest I am going to type as someone who has researched and followed the issue from a Western country but who is part of the culture and understands the significance. We would not have a problem with a newly established country including the name of Macedonia in their name since part of the region they are on includes areas of Ancient Macedon, if it were not for the following (and I will attempt to put these somewhat into perspective for you): You said, it should not be a problem if North Macedonians want to pay homage to prominent figures of the area, just like it is not a problem that there is such place as Rome New York, but what if Americans decided that Rome New York should be now recognized as THE actual Rome of Caesar and that Rome in modern-day Italy should be either handed over to the Americans or should completely change its name since it has 'nothing to do with true Rome'....yes I know that would be hard to fathom especially since the US is far away from Italy geographically, so let me bring you closer. What if Americans decided that New Mexico should from now on be called Mexico and that the country that has this name should now either hand over the land, or change its name and identity to something that completely excludes anything to do with "Mexicans" because (and really try your best to wrap your head around this) "Mexicans" stole the history, land and identity of the TRUE (American) Mexicans.......crickets.....crickets.....crickets..... This is exactly what happened with Macedonia. The region in Greece has had a continuation of the name through history because, as you mentioned, this area is where the Ancient Macedonian Kingdom was. FYROM or now Northern Macedonia was named Vardarska before WW2. Not much of an issue at this point. What changed is the propaganda that was established by TITO at the time and remains to this day. The propaganda consisted of the Slavic people of the area being now the TRUE Macedonians of Alexander the Great, complaining of having had their "identity stolen" by the Greeks and their history "erased". They now wished for, and still do propagate to have "their country back" meaning taking the region of Greece to establish the 'original country' of Macedonia (as if such a country ever existed - look into pictures of community events in the US and Canada that freely and openly showcase maps of the 'Great Macedonia' including part of Greece). They also have fought against us and have actively tried to take over the Greek region of Macedonia, especially during WW2 and the wars thereafter. Don't know about you, but that spells hostile to me, especially since Greece has never claimed to want to take over the geographical area of Macedonia that is on their side and have the whole of Macedonia become reconnected in this way...(!) It does not end there though. They claim that Greeks - who btw also never existed as you pointed out too - have hidden the Slavic origin of Alexander the Great, and that he spoke an "ancient Macedonian language" which is connected to the language they speak now.....Something I KNOW YOU, the West, DON'T KNOW because they backpedaled it on time is that a few years ago they had Archeologists claim that the fact that there were Greek inscriptions found in Skopjie was "proof" that the Greek language was their own and we stole it from them, leaving them to have to resort into speaking a different language.....(well which one is it?). I am sure you can find a video or two on that on youtube still. Now, these would not be too important if they were just the opinions of a few uneducated people here and there, however, this is not the case. It is the stance of governments at different points of time, and it is certainly what is taught in their education system. A little research can show you a lot. There are many other parts of this propaganda but I think you get the idea. Now, with the Prespes Agreement, they agreed to 'cut ties' (claiming) to the Ancient Macedonian Kingdom they so wanted so that they would be stopped from continuing to claim the Greek region as their own, which would inevitably lead to war, but oh what a surprise, they went right back to that after the signing. They were also required to use the full name North Macedonia in order to help establish the difference between the brand name that the region of Greece has had for centuries in exclusive products, such as Macedonian Feta cheese, Macedonian Halva etc. which they DO NOT honor. If you search online you will see that especially in international culinary, business and other promoting events they purposely drop the "North" and just go with Macedonia which has legal and economic implications as you can imagine. To give you an even better understanding I will also mention that if it was just about a name with nothing attached to it we would have the same issues with Albanians and Turks, but we do not. Specifically, the Southern more part of Albania is referred to as North Epirus as it was land within the Greek borders and specifically part of the region of Epirus. However, during the WW2 the land was lost to Albania. I am sure you will find no news or videos made about North Epirus though. I will leave you and your audience with this: it is wise to know that when one is not involved in a specific history or culture, one is bound to be missing out on key information to understand the people. That is not a bad thing. It is simply true. The wise will say "I do not understand". The not so wise thing to do is to say "I do not understand, therefore it must be (insert adjective). We tend to look at others through the lens of our own stories. But, that is dangerous as it can lead to downgrading something that may be important to others. Something that we tend to do nowadays is to look at the past and place judgments on the people and cultures of the past according to our own time. This is part of presentism. I believe the same happens with, what I will call for lack of a better word, 'light localism'. I will interpret what is happening there, according to what is happening or not happening here and place my judgment accordingly. So, anyone researching this, or coming into this, please try to understand that the experiences of the West are not always going to be the same as other places and people. If they tell you something is important to them, please listen. They have their reasons.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

I agree with everything you say! New Mexico used to be part of Mexico, so even tho your analogy is 100% on point in spirit, people will try to say their BS & miss the actual CONTEXT you are trying to present here. Part of the problem is that neutral people like Loukas here chalks this all up to Greece being simply "Unreasonable", but the Greater Powers WANT these "Problems" which should be NON-PROBLEMS to exist to be the Aces up their sleeves for future issues & as future bargaining chips! This "issue" could be resolved with ONE simple LIVE Debate. Then again, in our WOKE World, everyone is allowed to claim anything & name themselves anything & we can’t say a word so that we don’t hurt their feelings. Historical Reality is sacrificed for peoples Feelings these days. Absolutely Ridiculous to say the Least! 🤡

[@peterfireflylund]

That text was longer than the Chinese Wall… And it all just more Greek complaining. I have almost never seen “West Bulgarians” complain anywhere in the last 30 years. Greeks, however, have been complaining and spouting nationalist nonsense everywhere. Did you know that there is a similar situation with Armenia the country and Armenia the region in Iran? Why can’t you be as sane and modern and civilized as the Armenians and Iranians?

[@markela18]

​@@peterfireflylundMr Peter if the Greeks are beneath you, you are very welcome to spend less time on this topic and spend more time on the matter concerning Armenia.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@peterfireflylund Western Bulgayrians are irrelevant! They have ZERO HISTORY & are a desperate statelet! The world is laughing at them & You! 😃

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@peterfireflylund PS, you will always live in the Hellenes Shadow my little insignificant & Goofy Barbarian. Always remember that! 😃 We Love your Tears SO MUCH!!!! 🤣

[@yiannisroubos8846]

Sorry, Luke, in my (Greek) opinion, Greece didn't take it far enough, we should have forced them to change their name to Skopje or Vardaska or at least add a word of in the name i.e. North of Macedonia

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

Your Greek opinion , but nobody European is Greek ! And you , to rehabilitate your Mauritanian Haplogroup in majority about ,you like to catch the fish in the murky waters . People are coming in Macedonia and they see who is Greek and who is Macedonian . Especially in a rural environments ! Thessaloniki mountainous arials are full of Macedonian aboriginals like in the high vilages in all Macedonia where people have not stepped down for 2000 years because of multiply colonial time !

[@user-up4fq5pp1d]

Βασικά Αλβανία. Γιατί ξεχάσαμε αυτή τη λέξη; χαχαχαχαχα

[@flixey5107]

Lmao

[@gunjfur8633]

"North OF Macedonia" that one got me

[@voskreglavincevska7080]

@@gunjfur8633 ávrio , pou i itiá tha férei stafýlia

[@GilMartins-we2ej]

All ancient findings in historic Macedonia are written in Greek like in south Greece. So why are you saying Macedonians spoke a dialect, that was never written, and in south they spoke what was written in the findings?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Right, like I explained in the video, Attic is native only to Attica, to Athens, so anywhere in Greece that you find Attic inscriptions in the 4th century BC is indicative of a city that wishes to use the prestige dialect of Greece to elevate themselves - eventually Attic (Koine) becomes native most places, but not in the 4cBC. Attic was similarly used for its prestige all around the Mediterranean in the centuries that followed: Attic was not native to Egypt, and yet the Egyptians started writing it in during the Ptolemaic period. Thus every piece of writing in Attic can be discarded in our search for the native speech of the Macedonians. Essentially the only authentic piece of writing from ancient Macedonia that helps us is the Pella Tablet.

[@GilMartins-we2ej]

Ok thanks man @@polyMATHY_Luke

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@polyMATHY_LukeIve already shown you on another comment that we have another Curse Tablet as well. But you keep saying that we only have one. Why? Also, almost all of the Onomastics & Etymologies of the Macedonians from Early on are GREEK, with many of them being Unique & Epichoral Greek to the Macedonians themselves! There is Zero Explanation for that. There is ZERO comparison with the example of the Latin "Prestige" that you try to use…completely different Context!!!

[@user-du6op6qx5s]

@@polyMATHY_Luke up until now your answers were correct although there clearly is an attempt to ease the consiousness of the former yugoslavian republic of macedonia. But i had to answer to you , because clearly , there is a gap into understanding the attic greek or any greek. You and many other people, erroneously interpretate the old way of spreading language to the modern practices of doing so. The attic greek spread because many greeks relocated to new colonies and they were in big numbers. attic greek was not commonly used just because someone decided to do so, in a room full of diplomats, but rather on site with actual people spreading their language. since the mother of all sciences, philosophy and art of the greek people, happened in athens, people were buying aphoras, marbles with attic inscription on them which made them acustomed to attic greek. that is what made all the hellenic people to adopt it. further more attic greek had 24 letters by the fifth century b.c while all others included the chalkidians who everyone forgets what a powerfull and influential kingdome of evia was, formed the chalidiki colony, and also amphipolis was an athenian colony as well. that is how attic greek spread , primarily because of the chalkidians and eretrians. Now these 2 kingdoms and many other greek states had 28 letters like the digamma or your language letter F , the coppa an sambi. Attic greek had already removed them from their dialect making it more simplicit in a manner. It was also easier to adopt. This is the real procedure of language dialect adopted back then. All ,was applied literature, rather than diplomats deciding in a room. And IT IS ALSO FALSE , to say that some people used a different language but there are no evidence of that , instead all that is find is in greek so they have spoken a different language and adopted it later. This cannot stand. If they adopted the attic is because it was the most related dialect of greek for them to understand with ease. And of course 2/3 of macedonia region was a chalkidian colony.

[@xrhstoscbp0774]

doric,ionic and attic were all greek languages. Different dialect doesnt mean different language, even today we have a lot of dialets in greece. If the ancient macedonians were speaking a different language than greek we would at least have some relics or documents in this language. Everything we have from ancient Macedon screams ancient greece

[@yayaboss0383]

One point you didn't mention : the "Bulgarian irredentism" As macedonian and bulgarian are closely relative langages/dialects, some Bulgarians said that North Macedonia should be a part of Bulgaria. So by connecting themselves with the old kingdom of Macedonia, it was a way for the people of Macedonia to say to Bulgaria "we are not the same people" and strengthen the national identity of their young country (I'm not Greek nor Macedonian !)

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Well to be Macedonian, at least a real one, you would have to be Greek. That is no excuse, steal from your other neighbor to deny your Historical Reality & your OBVIOUS connection to your Bulgarian Past. That is absolutely INSANE !!!!

[@stoyanstankov9158]

…and this is why Bulgaria was the first country to recognize NM’s independence in the 90s?

[@georgios_5342]

Saying the first one was enough, you can't be Macedonian without being Greek 👍

[@karwashblark7499]

​@@SpartanLeonidas1821 And its not like Bulgaria doesn't gave some glorious ancient history itself. They held off the Romans for so fkn long, beat down Constantines V and VI

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@karwashblark7499 You think thats Ancient? Well, I guess when you don’t have much history, you would consider that ancient. You must understand that for us Greeks, we are still one of the oldest Documented People to exist. Documented 3,500 Years through the SAME LANGUAGE !!! We have different Standards. And yes, Bulgars were tough, but the Greco-Romans were able to completely conquer them twice, the Bulgars could not…don’g forget that! 👍🏻

[@hekatonikles]

You're making it sound like Greeks are just unnecessarily petty, which is not only oversimplifying but also wrong. It's not like they've been brutally occupied by other nations for many years. It's not like people are still trying to take what little land there's left (Edrogan anybody) by claiming some ancient connection/ownership. And trust me, North Macedonia is doing the exact same thing. People in Greece would be delighted, if they didn't have to worry about this bullshit anymore. Unfortunately, nobody outside of Greece seems to really care at all. But sure; they're just being petty...

[@user-ld2oy9ln4j]

Its clearly Hellenic!! The People from North Macedonia have no link with ancient Macedonians , they are from slav descendants who migrated in the region in 6th century ,along with proto-bulgars ,and both became gradually same people until the end of 19th century When the Balkan geopolitical game had begun

[@zoomer_zveno]

A Bulgarian here with one correction which, though rather marginal to the video's topic, is crucially important to understanding modern Balkan history. The project for the creation of an autonomous polity (within the Ottoman Empire) or an independent state covering the entire geographic region of Macedonia which you mention originally came out of what would eventually be known as the Internal 'makedono-odrinska' ("of Macedonia and Southern Thrace/The Vilayet of Adrianople") Revolutionary Organisation. The VMORO was founded, led and overwhelmingly "staffed" by ethnic Bulgarians who, through armed struggle against the Ottomans, sought to achieve political autonomy for Macedonia and Southern Thrace as a stepping stone for their future integration into either a Greater Bulgaria or a Balkan federation. Neither of those two end goals entailed any sort of "Slavo-Macedonian" ethnic nationalism - the so called Right Wing of the Organisation saw Macedonia as an inseparable part of the Bulgarian nation while its Left Wing envisioned a multi-ethnic & multi-religious state within which local Bulgarians would co-exist with their Greek, Turkish, Vlach, Jewish and Albanian neighbours, all united by progressive revolutionary ideals and a common CIVIC Macedonian identity. The Bulgarian character of Macedonian Slavs was never a point of debate within the pre-WW1 revolutionary movement and a new Macedonian national consciousness would not start to develop until the 1930s

[@GeoHdReal]

The national consciousness started developing over a century earlier, meanwhile indeed it is in the 1930s when the movement became more organised and gathered more steam, partly due to the recognition by the comminterm. Research the Macedonian Literary Society in Saint Petersburg for example. Bulgarians tend to dismiss all claims of Macedonian nationhood conflating them all with the no-nuance takes they read online, and politicised weaponised historiographies written to distance ourselves from different neighbours at different times of our history. During the period of 1944-1948 the majority of Macedonian Public figures supported the proposed creation of a unified Macedonia under a balkan federation, as proposed by Dimitrov and Tito, people only started leaving ship for the Bulgarian side once the cominterm split happened and the Macedonian authorities were pressured by Tito to create a more pro-Serbian anti-Bulgarian Yugoslavia. Yet still many remained and tried to do the best they could with the new semi-autonomous state we had, despite the persecutions of the period, even of the greatest Macedonian heroes like Metodija Andonov-Chento. Another very interesting source for the popular sentiment of the period is "Списание Луч" which was an anti-government magazine that was published in Skopje during 1937-1939 before it got banned, it's authors reflected the diverse views of the time, from wanting to become an autonomous part of Bulgaria, just more autonomy within the Kingdom, or full on Macedonian independence.

[@zoomer_zveno]

@@GeoHdReal I'm aware of Georgi Pulevski, Chupovski, Theodosius Gologanov, Misirkov, etc. The thing is that their ideas had extremely limited, if any, influence over the "Slavo-Macedonian" masses, as opposed to the identity-molding educational and ecclesiastical institutions of the Bulgarian Exarchate and the local intellectual and revolutionary elites affiliated with them. The process of anti-Hellenistic cultural revival among Macedonian Slavs in the 19th century was inextricably linked with that among Thracian and Moesian Bulgarians, and virtually all prominent Macedonian figures of the period, from the Miladinov brothers and Grigor Purlichev to Parthenius of Zograf and Kuzman Shapkarev, actively worked for the development of a modern Bulgarian nation. It was only once the Exarchate - the offspring of that nationalist movement - had been forcibly expelled from Macedonia after the wars of the 1910s, that attitudes started to shift in the direction of further and further ethno-political differentiation from the Pan-Bulgarian project.

[@InAeternumRomaMater]

21:56, I love this map. You realised something that you Bulgarians dismissed?

[@zoomer_zveno]

​@@GeoHdReal Already in the first few years after 1944 the Serbophilic Yugoslav-centric character of the Macedonian Communist leadership was being reflected in the suppression of soldier mutinies against deployment on the Syrmian front, the persecution of sovereignist Macedonian nationalists like Metodija Andonov-Chento, the imposition of a Serbian orthography onto the newly codified Macedonian literary language and the complaints of leftist Bulgarians/Bulgarophiles Pavel Shatev and Panko Brashnarov to Dimitrov and Stalin. In the ranks of the Bulgarian Communist Party, one could see a variety of perspectives. There were fervently pro-Yugoslav activists who would later be thrown into work camps as Titoist agents; there were cautious moderates who advocated for making the integration of the Pirin region into a United Macedonia conditional on the formation of a Balkan Federation and for a gradual, peaceful construction of a Macedonian identity not defined in opposition to all things Bulgarian; there were even passionate opponents of any Yugoslav influence and any concerted effort at Macedonisation like Vladimir Poptomov. The argument between Dimitrov, supported by Stalin, and Tito, about the structure and balance of power within the proposed Bulgaro-Yugoslav federal union, is also to be considered. The Cominformbureau Resolution of 1948 was only the tipping point, not the origin of any of these conflicts.

[@zoomer_zveno]

@@InAeternumRomaMater What?

[@georgios_5342]

19:45 ok you completely lost me here. How are they "paying homage" by appropriating ancient Greek figures and renaming them to Slavic? And then talking about how Greece "genocided" (!!!) The "Macedonian Slavs" of "Aegean Macedonia"? That's not exactly homage. They're twisting the historical figures to fit into their narrative. And no, we shouldn't respect pseudo-history over the real deal. I can't consider a people "Macedonian" just because he lives in the land that was once ruled by Macedonians. Otherwise Pakistanis are also Macedonian! Also, if I go to America, do I suddenly become a native American? No, I am a Greek in America. The Skopians conquered the land that was once a part of Macedonia, but they have no connection to the history of this place as a people. If they so much adore Macedonia, they should joi Greece 😂

[@ginatz75]

Same as Turks thinking they are Hittites or Trojans 😂

[@ShayPatrickCormacTHEHUNTER]

@@ginatz75 why would the turks think that? They were the global hegemon during the height of the ottoman empire. They have no need for that considering their history.

[@ginatz75]

@@ShayPatrickCormacTHEHUNTER I have seen some claim it in social Media 😂

[@ShayPatrickCormacTHEHUNTER]

@@ginatz75 they are a minority.

[@user-jy9le4dw7c]

Ο Μέγας Αλέξανδρος είναι Έλληνας και ας λέτε ότι θέλετε

[@evangelinedollas3968]

I understand that you can't comprehend or empathize with the fight the Greeks have given to defend our history and name.The fact is that during our very old history we had to fight to protect our identity. Maybe today everything is safe but who knows what could happen in three generations from now. Do you realize that only three generations have passed since people were being massacred because they spoke Greek? Do you know that the propaganda behind the creation of the Yugoslave Republic of Macedonia was due to the attempt of the communist leadership to distinguish the people of this region from their Bulgarian, Albanian, Serbian,Romani and Greek identity? Do you know that when Thessaloniki held a majority of a Jewish population, the city of Monastiri ( in North Macedonia) had a very strong greek population which eventually lost its identity? We did not survive as a nation because we were free or had powerful weapons or friends. We did not survive because we were a powerful country. We have just became a country 200 years ago. The only thing that kept us alive was our language, or history and our culture. That is something we don't expect you to understand.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Some Americans with Italian origin Love that the Hellenic Legacy disappears so they can Prop up their own Roman Bug-a-boo Italian Copy-Paste Agenda. The Problem for them is that much of Roman History is written in GREEK, which forces them to have to talk about Greece & Greek History. Even many of their Emperors spoke Greek & some of the most Famous Lines ever quoted by them were ALSO in Greek. Then there is also the Greek Eastern Roman Empire which was Roman for a Longer time than the Latin Western Half itself. They always wished that the Greeks would have disappeared. Some of the reasons why are mentioned above! 👍🏻

[@chrisgk7494]

I get why, as an outsider looking in you see Greece as overreacting, but the devil is in the details. You mention that when Yugoslavia was a thing there wasn't much of a problem why? Maybe because people saw it as a simple geographic distinction and no remember how Russian uses the Russian populations in other countries. And the cherry on top? A big percentage of people of North Macedonia believing that Greece is steeling part of their ethnic identity. The name Macedonia isn't the issue and you explained why it is in that region in the first place, what the name can imply is the issue. Side note I love your channel and your reconstruction of ancient Greek pronunciation, keep up the good work!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks very much! And thanks for the thoughtful comment, I appreciate having your point of view here. Like we said, I’m just an outsider.

[@chrisgk7494]

@polyMATHY_Luke And I appreciate channels like your existing on KZbin. History and languages are fascinating topping, and we can all learn something. Also, I am sure I have my bias been greek and all my school education from the public Greek school. So outside perspective is always welcome, especially when the topic is history, so facts are the most important thing. The great thing about facts is that they don't have a country of origin.

[@Billswiftgti]

The problem here is that Phillip and Alexander essentially kickstarted Hellenistic Age. That is why we are called Hellenes. Without these guys we would be Achaioi, Ionians(Yunan), Aeolians etc. Hellas is the ideal for us, not just a state. It is the ideal of everyone acting civil, not just ethnic Greeks, but everyone. Science flourish, music and literature calms the soul, medicine saves lives. This is our ideal and this is what Hellas means to me. Not just this modern mediocre (at best) state.

[@Pana-yc6bf]

Exactly. To us Greeks (Hellenes), Alexander united our common language and ethnicity into a single nation during a time when each city state was warring with each other. This is why he is so Great to us.

[@Filonikis]

​@@Pana-yc6bfHowever, we were calling ourselves Hellenes long before Alexander the Great.

[@turky6834]

@@Pana-yc6bfhow did he unite the ethnicity. Did he kill all the non greeks?

[@Pana-yc6bf]

@@turky6834 he united the city states of Hellas except Sparta and created a common language Koine Greek. Greeks have killed Greeks all throughout history, you ever heard of the Peloponnesian war? Or more recently the Greek civil war? This is not a strong argument, Alexander killed Greeks therefore he is not Greek. Cope

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@turky6834🤡🦃🤡

[@spellplague]

Im Greek and i dont get offended at all that FYROM desperately wants to identify as Macedonias. Im mostly complimented and honored that they want to share this label. They should really start speaking the Greek language and then i will be proud of my North Macedonian brothers

[@angelosdaresis1477]

".. do not forget Greece, Alexander ..It was for her sake that you launched your whole expedition, to add Asia to Greece .." Arrian [Anabasis of Alexander 4.11.7] «.. τῆς Ἑλλάδος μεμνῆσθαί σε ἀξιῶ, ὦ Αλέξανδρε ἧς ἕνεκα ὁ πᾶς στόλος σοι ἐγένετο, προσθεῖναι τὴν Ἀσίαν τῇ Ἑλλάδι ..» Ἀρριανός [Ἀλεξάνδρου Ἀνάβασις 4.11.7]

[@PoliticswithPaint]

I can't wait to read the comments later

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Your channel is going strong! Wonderful to see. Keep up the great work.

[@PoliticswithPaint]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Thank you! Congrats on reaching 200k+ subs, well deserved!

[@evarentals]

Maybe if Croatia started saying we're the real "romans" and renamed Croatia Rome?? Or any other country surrounding Italy? Would u feel the same?? And then saying their languange is the real Latin and took the flag on your wall and made it their new country's flag!

[@whadeffa]

Is there a diphthong of "Iota-eta" in Koine Greek? Would this be akin to double vowel in other languages? Thanks.

[@santopaok4585]

and is also Greek ,Macedonia Strabo was a Greek geographer, philosopher and historian (63 BC - 23 AD)

[@RVered]

Luke, you don't have to respond to pseudo-historical or conspiratorial comments. Otherwise, every video will be responding to "[Country]/[Region]/[People] aren't [Term]! We are!"

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Hehe indeed. This video is primarily just to help my audience outside of the Balkans get a handle on why this controversy is a big deal to the parties involved.

[@faramund9865]

I don't see the issue. I find it incredibly informative.

[@mydogsbutler]

Luke's knowledge of the history of the Macedonia issue is better than novice but nowhere even close to expert. He seems to have no clue most of what others today claim as "Macedonians" used to self-identify as regional ethnic Bulgarian Macedonians living in Vardar prior to Yugoslav communists wiping out their identity.

[@michaelshelton5488]

Awesome informative video 👍. You should do a similar video on the former Soviet republic of Moldova and the Romanian province of Moldavia

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks! Yes that’s a challenging one. The reunification efforts are very interesting, obviously long-complicated by Transnistria.

[@theoavg]

How would it be possible that in ancient Macedonia would speak anything else but Greek. This doesn’t make any sense. Why would that even be a question?

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Because a hypothesis, such as yours, requires evidence. There is essentially no evidence for how the common people spoke, which is very different from the data we have in, say, Athens from the same centuries. See the previous video.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@polyMATHY_Luke ".. Whoever does not consider the Macedonians as Greeks must also conclude that by the 6th and 5th centuries BC the Macedonians had completely given up the original names of their nation - without any need to do so - and taken Greek names in order to demonstrate their admiration for Greek civilisation. I think it not worth the trouble to demolish such a notion; for any hypothesis of historical linguists which is put forward without taking into account the actual life of a people, is condemned as it were out of its own mouth .." -Otto Hoffmann [German Linguist] Regardless, the Macedonians considered themselves Greeks & they also included Macedonia as being part a part of Greece Proper. Their entire Material Culture was Greek as well. Who are we to deny that? And don’t mention the Latin Prestige theory again, that is absolutely NOT relatable to this situation!

[@mikel3359]

From ancient times to present day Macedonia is region of Greece. Was a kingdom of Ancient Greece/Greek world, was a theme/region of Medieval Greece/Greek world which was the Byzantine Empire, and is a region of Modern Greece/ Hellenic Republic. From ancient times to present day Macedonians are called the Greeks from Macedonia region of Greece, Athenians are called the Greeks from Athens city Greece, Thessalians the Greeks from Thessaly region, Spartans from Sparta and so on with other places of Greece. All speak the Greek language ofcourse with the variations and evolution of Greek language through millennia

[@VlasisGogousis13]

"There is no evidence that donkeys can't fly" -- sounds like a silly sentence yet for some reason that exact logic is used as an argument: "All names and inscriptions all around those regions were in Greek yet there is no evidence that Macedonians spoke Greek" 🤔

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

The difference is that donkeys have been observed from countless points of view, and there are millions of donkeys. We only have one solid point of pre-Hellenistic data from Macedonia, and that’s the Pella tablet. I find it convincing, and with the very scant other evidence I think it’s enough to draw a tenuous conclusion about the Greekness of the ancient Macedonians. A better biological comparison is finding a single fossilized leg bone from an ancient reptile. Was it a dinosaur? It has enough in common with full skeletons to make that conclusion. Was it an ancestor of birds? Its just a single bone; there are some air sacks in the hollows, which is something that modern birds have. Could it fly? We don’t have evidence for wings, but it’s possible. Not enough data, but concluding that the bone belonged to a bird or bird ancestor is reasonable. However, more data are needed. You understand?

[@Phosphoreus]

@@polyMATHY_Luke You are an acrobat as well?! What a flexible performance !

[@wankawanka3053]

​@@polyMATHY_Lukeconsidering the fact that the little evidence we have points at it being greek i don't see a piint in if scenarios,some evidence will always be better than zero evidence

[@VlasisGogousis13]

@@polyMATHY_Luke I understand your point. Nevertheless, so far there hasn't been a single datum whatsoever that implies any alternative scenario. If Macedonians spoke anything other than Greek, scholars of the time would have mentioned something. Especially when it comes to Alexander the Great, it is very odd that all of a sudden his greekness is being questioned, when his teacher, Aristotle, was also Macedonian and has never been labeled as anything other than Greek. It's really hard to believe that Aristotle wouldn't have mentioned anything if himself and Alexander spoke a different language. So to stress what I've already said, if Macedonians were speaking a non-greek language there would have been not one, but many historians/scholars of the time pointing out that fact. To my knowledge there is none.

[@AstraphUriel]

I put on a hazmat, went into the comments section, saw it's almost empty... >Posted 4 minutes ago. DAMMIT.

[@JohnnyUrie]

I respect and admire when history is being said as it is and not as some people want, aka our North slav neighbors. The possibility of claiming the lands due to a common name (Macedonia) which gives a way to the sea as well, something that could happen in shaky times. Who knows.beyond that, you do an amazing job in all of your videos. Kudos mate

[@mertzanakia]

I am glad you have finally experienced a 100% certified Balkan moment, Luke!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

I have very much appreciated the thoughtful comments form both sides.

[@giannismalainos9216]

19:50 I have never heard anyone from Naples Florida or Rome New York , claiming ownership of cultural heritage and ancestry of ancient roman or Greek or medieval Italian historical figures , have maps in their children’s schools teaching them that part of their history and land is stolen and should be reclaimed and using symbols used in original Naples or Rome claiming those as their own . I have never heard people from Naples Florida or Rome new York claim that their ancient and medieval ancestors were the true Romans and Neapolitans who did not speak Italian or Latin or Greek but something else and all we know in history is propaganda.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That is the point I made in the video.

[@giannismalainos9216]

@@polyMATHY_Luke yeah I know , I only made it a bit more clear that this name squabble between the 2 countries is more serious than the actual name as a term

[@zoips75]

It is known why the people in ancient Macedonia could participate in the Olympics as well as it is known who was Alexander' s teacher. Telling the half of the truth sometimes might create misinformation or sometimes it might be It looks like there is some reason behind it.

[@rodantho1]

My friend you mention that these disputes look silly to you. However, a million things in linguistics are extremely silly because they are affected by geopolitics, the interest of countries and unfortunately, if you as a group of "scientists" dont look at yourselves as scientists we will continue having these discussions. For example, you say that Spanish and Portuguese are distinct languages. When Spanish-speaking football players go to play in Brazil, the 1st week they are there, they show up on 2-3 hour TV shows without having even 1 lesson in Portuguese. The player understands everything said, the TV audience understand everything although the player speaks in Spanish and the rest of the panel in Portuguese. Apologies, but to me this the definition of a dialect. Now nobody has the guts to call Spanish and Portuguese as dialects of the same language because of geopolitical reasons. I could mention many other cases like this. To me this is a million times more silly than the dispute between Greece and North Macedonia. However, you find the one issue logical and the other silly, because linguistics does not have a scientific approach and most of it is affected by geopolitics. I will mention again that, North Macedonia was not trolling Greece. It was a massive effort, a state-organised campaign, that costed millions over millions that had a significant impact on the economy of that poor country,. Journalists, Universities, professors, architects etc. the whole country (North Macedonia) was mobilised for years and years campaigning about their brothers living under Greek and Bulgarian rule that needed to be liberated etc. This was in the country's constitution, in school books, university books, elaborate theories were created to show that Macedonians were speaking another language but somehow were forced writing in Greek because their language was not a written one etc. It was not random people trolling Greece, they tried to make a point which was very clear.

[@reynaldoneto1976]

don't know if this is oversimplifying, but just so I understand better. Was the capital of ancient Macedonia located in what is now Greece or in North Macedonia? The classical political entity, in its beginnings, spread across several modern countries, right? Thanks in advance for the explanation. Nice channel!

[@stephenlight647]

It’s too simple a fact, BUT the fact is that the Macedonian capital was in Pella. Which you can visit today IN GREECE!!! Not in the geography of the Slavic Skopians. 😂

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

That's a great question. Pella was the capital, and it is in Greece. Most of the original Macedonian kingdom is within the bordern of modern Greece.

[@reynaldoneto1976]

@@polyMATHY_Luke It's a really interesting story. The case of Bulgaria is also complex. Slavs, Thracians, Bulgarians... maybe one day you will explain this story to us!

[@laSd123]

Solun(Thessaloniki today) is the capital of Macedonia 🇲🇰

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

Almost all of the Lands of the Original Historical Lands of the Ancient Macedonian Kingdom are in Greece except for about 7% of it in which some of it falls in Skopia & the other part in Bulgaria. The Greeks ONLY CARE ABOUT the Historical Region of Ancient Macedonia, not the later Romans Lazy interpretation of Makedonia Protis & Makedonia Deutera, I think Loukas forgot to mention that on the Coins found on these territories that the Romans renamed that the coins are in Greek using etymologically Greek Words for the populations there, I wonder why? 🤔 Regardless, the Macedonians Presence is seen in the Medieval Greek Sources & they are STILL Greek Peoples with Greek Names at that time! The Greeks were ALSO a plurality in the Vilayets of Thessaloniki & Monasteri [Ancient Herakleia Lynkestis] in all the ottoman Census as well after the islamic turks. As a matter of Fact, in these Historic Macedonian Regions the ottoman Census done by Hilmi Pasha states that there were: 634,510 Greeks 🇬🇷 [Vilayets of Salonica & Monastir] 355,729 Bulgars 🇧🇬 [Vilayets of Salonica & Monastir] No ethnic "Macedonians" were EVER mentioned in any of those Censuses conducted! In those Greeks, before any Population exchanges are the ACTUAL Remnants of the Ancient Macedonians & that Legacy belongs to THEM.

[@sideriskiratsoudis2641]

The Macedonian dialect is a regional variant of ancient Greek, evidenced by the etymology of terms like "Macedonia" (from Greek "Μακεδνός," meaning "tall" or "highlander") and "Alexander" (from Greek "ἀλέξω," meaning "to defend," and "ἀνήρ," meaning "man"). Inscriptions and texts from ancient Macedonia are predominantly in Greek, and classical sources like Herodotus and Thucydides identify Macedonians as Greeks with unique traits. Thus, the scholarly consensus based on linguistic and historical evidence is that the Macedonian dialect is a form of Greek.

[@Ali-fc1bv]

I recently found your channel. It’s very resourceful and entertaining to watch.

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Really flattered to hear that, thanks for watching!

[@_juan.joao_]

Thank you for the great video! Regards from Corfu, Greece!

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Ευχαριστώ!

[@Nikelaos_Khristianos]

I haven’t watched the video yet, but you’re a bloody brave sod, Luke!! 🤣🤣

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Everyone has been rather civil so far.

[@janeza382]

From the brave and lunatic is the tin line.

[@user-jx5qy7nb1z]

i see many times that people who dont know history they will say that Alexander is skopje or north Macedonia and this is wrong and get in my nevres

[@Fadeyes98]

If u ask a slav what the name Alexander, Philip, or Macedonia means, they d have to look it up in a dictionary. Case closed. 😂😂

[@salar1586]

If you ask a german what Deutsch or Germany means, they would say Its just the name of our country. Why does everything have to have a meaning?

[@Fadeyes98]

@@salar1586 I m not sure what u mean. But who needs meaning, right?

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@Fadeyes98 ALEXANDER and FILIP ARE MACEDONIANS . before 25 centuries FILIP KING, ALEXANDER TSAR ON MAKEDONIJA

[@Fadeyes98]

@@tatjanavelkova5814 tsar? Makedonija? You don't make it easier for you my slav friend. Αλέξανδρος.

[@tatjanavelkova5814]

@@salar1586 I WISH YOU NICE YEAR ! ! ! Tatjana

[@akissfantos7224]

How do you think Alexander the Great communicated with his teacher Aristotle in Slavic or in Albanian or in English???????what language did Aristotle speak to Alexander? 23?what language and culcultureAlexander spread all the way to India?slavic? Albanian?

[@notme1411]

He didn't speak Albanian he spoke Ancient Macedonian Greek but probably was exposed to proto-Albanian that was spoken in Dardania

[@Sponge416]

They spoke Bosnian of course

[@Tephrinos]

They spoke Gheg Albanian.🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱🇦🇱

[@akissfantos7224]

@@Tephrinos you must love LSD

[@michaelgiao2963]

They used yugotranslate

[@StergiosMekras]

It's not that we're satisfied with "North Macedonia", it's just that we know that after all those years we can't really get any better. And there's also the fact that if you repeat a lie often enough, it eventually is perceived as true. How long do you think it would take for people to actually believe that Alexander was a Slav if Greece had not complained? This is not an issue with the citizens of North Macedonia, of course, but with the ones that started this myth in hopes of forging a national identity for them. It's not just Greek/Macedonian history they took from anyway, just ask the Bulgarians...

[@polyMATHY_Luke]

Thanks for the comment. That is a fair point.

[@StergiosMekras]

@@polyMATHY_Luke Just so we are clear, the video was great and as a third party you did pretty impressively. That said, we Balkan people are a ...unique sort. Pay us no mind.

[@lenormand4967]

@@StergiosMekras The place is newly renamed Greece too. The Hellenes didn't come from there. Alexander did not come from that area. When he began, he went from Macedonia/CalEDONIA (northern Scotland) and the diplomats and priests around Perth and macEDONburg, Scotland were among the first he met with. Don't feel bad. Scotaland was renamed Ireland. Persia was renamed Hungary. The "Isle of Syria" was renamed Britain. Aeria was renamed Egypt. Egypt was renamed Wales. The enormous territory of Phares-judah and Zerah-judah was renamed so many other names. It's capitol, an IudoReum, was renamed Rome, Italy/Iuda. That was probably a major cause of wars.

[@SpartanLeonidas1821]

@@lenormand4967 The Ancient Sources say you are a lying CLOWN though 🤡🤷🏻‍♂️ 👇🏻 ".. *Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the REST of GREECE* and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. *I have been appointed leader of the GREEKS* and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you .." *-Arrian* *[Anabasis of Alexander 2.14.4]* «.. *οἱ ὑμέτεροι πρόγονοι ἐλθόντες εἰς Μακεδονίαν καὶ εἰς τὴν ἄλλην Ἑλλάδα* κακῶς ἐποίησαν ἡμᾶς οὐδὲν προηδικημένοι: *ἐγὼ δὲ τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἡγεμὼν κατασταθεὶς* καὶ τιμωρήσασθαι βουλόμενος Πέρσας διέβην ἐς τὴν Ἀσίαν, ὑπαρξάντων ὑμῶν ..» *-Ἀρριανός* *[Ἀλεξάνδρου Ἀνάβασις 2.14.4]* Nice Try! Buy Pampers!!! 👍🏻

[@rossfun9840]

This is why the Greeks are here to remind eternaly to the world the true identity of the ethnic ex-bulgarian and albanian citizens of North "macedonia" , thats why they are hating us , because we uncovered their state mythology and made it known worldwide so the Bulgarians can always rightfully claim them

[@mithridates1418]

It's all about historical accuracy and truth. Just as we Greeks don't claim George Washington or Bismarck or Napoleon as Greek, neither do we claim their countries' culture, history, language etc as ours, we expect other countries to respect and not attempt to steal our people's history, culture, symbols etc. It's not about irredentism or anything like that. It's about historical truth and with all due respect Luke, you should have been for that as well, because that's what all you work is about, historical accuracy. If this whole issue is not a big deal, that would open the way for much more nonesense like, I dunno, Icelanders claiming Mayan ancestry?